Moving WWYD

[MeaganS]

We have a very interesting opportunity and I can't decide what to do!

We currently have a large house on 1.5 acres in an older established neighborhood. This neighborhood is in an area of our city that is growing like mad and having tons of money pumped into it. We are literally a mile away from where they are building the new Walmart home office and within walking distance to a huge art museum and childrens museum and park. It is very bike friendly here and our church is a mile away as well. My 11yo has made some great friends who are within biking distance and there are lots of opportunities for extra curriculars. Our house is 50 years old and we have updated some of it, but it still has a ways to go (constant projects, including totally redoing the master/master bath), but it is unique and fits us really well. It has also almost doubled in value since we moved here over 3 years ago and will likely continue to go up as our area continues to grow and become more desirable. We have chickens and a huge garden with room for more. Overall, we love it here with the exception of the project house, and even that isn't that bad.

So why would we leave? My in-laws, who are great and we have a great relationship with, are moving here. They have suggested that if we wanted, they could buy a large plot of beautiful land and we could build houses on it, possibly with other of dh's siblings (although probably only 1 other would choose to do it). The land they are looking at would allow for all of my husband's homesteady inclinations to come to pass. We would be free to have animals, including meat chickens, pigs, and possibly a cow or two. We could have as big a garden as we wanted, and we would be a few acres away from family we like. We could sell our current house and build a dream house with cash or close to it with what our house would likely sell for. That means we would essentially be debt-free. The problem with this is that the land is about 20 minutes outside of town. It is in a much smaller town and while it is growing too, it is pretty basic and rural. Even the culture feels different. For a lot of things, we'd still need to drive to where we live now. Also, our church would be 20 minutes away.

So what would you do? Stay at the location you love and house/yard that is 90% of what you could possibly want? Build your husband's dream (mine too besides location) house and hobby homestead and be mostly debt free?

 

[regentrude]

I would stay. Even with the best of relations, I would not want to build a house on my in-law's land and live in a family compound.

[mommyoffive]

Oh wow, what a good problem to have.  It sounds like both options are great places for your family to live. 

Looking at the ages of your kids, I would probably stay.  Unless you were going to move to the new town and could adjust to living in that town instead of commuting 20mins each way all the time.   Maybe that isn't a lot for your life I don't know.  But if I had to do that everyday or multiple times a day it would take the shine off of living rural for me quickly.   Are your kids in activities that meet a lot in the old town?  Can you join things in the new town?  Will they go to ps?  

[AmandaVT]

I'd stay - we have had a similar opportunity here and looked into building on land my mom owns (already subdivided into 5 acre lots). It was a lot more expensive than we had anticipated and we decided that living 20 min away was better for all. I wonder, when they move, if the offer to build would still be in place down the road a few years when your kids are older? It may be better to move 10 years, and by that point, your current house would sell for even more. 

[ScoutTN]

I’d stay.

[Beth S]

1000% Stay Where You Are. 

[Tiberia]

I agree with regentrude. Even great family relationships can be strained if there's an agreement like that. It would tie you to other people's dreams and fates. What do the kids want to do?

[Terabith]

One of the many things I have learned on the hive is that building houses is a pain in the butt and never goes according to plan.  Your set up sounds great, and I would never want to move more rurally just as my kids were getting to be teens.  

[Frances]

Stay. No way would I add so much driving to my plate with four children. It will likely only get worse as they get older. Many of my neighbors moved into town when their kids reached middle school age because all of the driving was taking way too much time and their kids wanted to be closer to friends. Plus, almost every home building project I know about personally has been a nightmare.

[Spryte]

I would absolutely stay. 

[Lostinabook]

Based on your description I can pretty much figure out where you live and there is NO WAY I would move. 

[lmrich]

Stay - you can always move later.

[cjzimmer1]

With the nightmare stories that Carrie has shared with building a house recently, combined with my own experiences of delayed beyond belief building products, no I absolutely would not build a house right now.  Supply chains just aren't stable enough for me to make that level commitment.  Also while I love my family, I'm not sure I'd want to commit to sharing land with them.  It could become quite unpleasant if the relationship ever becomes strained.  I'm also in the why add so much more driving to your life.

I understand your husbands dream of a hobby farm,  I'd love to be more self sufficient but none of that would make me want to move from a place that is already almost perfect.

[Arcadia]

16 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I would stay. Even with the best of relations, I would not want to build a house on my in-law's land and live in a family compound.

This. Besides the fact that inheritance would get messy. What if the in-laws one day passed or they want to sell the land. 

[athena1277]

Stay!
 

Being close to everything is the best thing about where we live.  It’s never a problem for me kids to go to youth group activities (our church has a lot) because it’s only a few minutes away.  Coop is close.  Grocery stores are close.  Job opportunities for my teens are close.

Location, location, location.

[MeaganS]

10 minutes ago, Lostinabook said:

Based on your description I can pretty much figure out where you live and there is NO WAY I would move. 

Curious why you say that. (I understand it is pretty easy to figure out where we are based on my description, more wondering why it would lead you to think we should stay). 

Also, absolutely the finances of how the land would work would be a written down thing with lawyers and financial advisors and all the contingencies figured. 

But yeah, I've been reveling at being in the middle of everything and the idea of having to drive my soon to be teenagers everywhere sounds like a pain and a huge con. 

[freesia]

We live between towns and I hate it. We have to drive to do anything. I would give anything for  my kids to have been able or to be able to see friends more easily. I would not give that up at this time on your family/homeschooling life.  

[Toocrazy!!]

I wouldn’t move my kids away from a great neighborhood. 

[SKL]

Maybe I'd build a cabin on the inlaws' property in order to better enjoy the perks there, but I'd stay in my current house.

[Katy]

Even if building timelines, supply chains, and prices were predictable, you have 4 kids at ages where they get busy with their own lives & interests. Homesteading is super expensive and takes hours every day. Plus it’s difficult for aging bodies.  There’s zero chance I would force those kinds of chores on my kids, and my dad moved from 10 acres with horses in town to 50 acres outside town to do basically the same thing when I was about 12. Kids need stability. Maybe you can buy a few acres from the in laws now or arrange to do so when youngest is in college. Your house will continue to increase in value, the projects will be done, and the choices you make will be much different than the choices you’d make then. 

[MeaganS]

You guys are making me feel better about my hesitation. You are saying exactly what my brain has been saying.

[fairfarmhand]

45 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I would stay. Even with the best of relations, I would not want to build a house on my in-law's land and live in a family compound.

what she said.

[Lostinabook]

12 minutes ago, MeaganS said:

Curious why you say that. (I understand it is pretty easy to figure out where we are based on my description, more wondering why it would lead you to think we should stay). 

Because you are so in the middle of everything. Easy walking/biking distance to a fabulous library, great restaurants, great shops, lots of events, and then easy biking access to so many other things since you're on the trail system. Having to drive places after having all that would not be fun. Being 5 minutes from church would also be something I just wouldn't want to give up. We've never been that close & I wish we were. And if the people who go to that church are mostly that close as well then I think it would be super hard to suddenly be much further away. Plus, there's no way your house won't continue to appreciate, so it's not like you have to move now or you'll lose out on a high sale value.  

[fairfarmhand]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

Even if building timelines, supply chains, and prices were predictable, you have 4 kids at ages where they get busy with their own lives & interests. Homesteading is super expensive and takes hours every day. Plus it’s difficult for aging bodies.  There’s zero chance I would force those kinds of chores on my kids, and my dad moved from 10 acres with horses in town to 50 acres outside town to do basically the same thing when I was about 12. Kids need stability. Maybe you can buy a few acres from the in laws now or arrange to do so when youngest is in college. Your house will continue to increase in value, the projects will be done, and the choices you make will be much different than the choices you’d make then. 

I'm 42. Every thing hurts a LOT more than it used to. And my dh feels it too. It's so much less fun. And it's a lot of after work/weekend stuff that tends to creep into every crack of the life. It's a good life, but I wouldn't sign up for it with a young teen. I think kids need to grow up on a farm to be adjusted to the expectations and work level. Even at that, it's a hard tradeoff.

[wintermom]

Definitely stay put. Visit the in-laws to enjoy the property, then go home to privacy and total freedom. 😉 

Edited August 17, 2022 by wintermom

[Scarlett]

I think it is a great empty nester plan.  Can you pm me what town?  I think I could figure it out but my. Rain is tired.  

[freesia]

Adding also, my dh and SIL moved to a homesteading situation at 9 and 6 and did not like all the work at all. Dh still shudders when someone says goat and he couldn’t wait to get on the school bus to see his friends—which your kids couldn’t do. They may live it but all four? Probably not. 

[Annie G]

I’d stay but hope to be able to implement the plan when the kids are grown, or at least the last one is driving. 20 minutes away from friends, church,etc. is a lot when you’re in the thick of raising kids. 

[Kassia]

Another vote for stay!

[Scarlett]

18 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think it is a great empty nester plan.  Can you pm me what town?  I think I could figure it out but my. Rain is tired.  

My rain is tired. 😂😂😂 point made I guess. 

[ktgrok]

28 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I’d stay but hope to be able to implement the plan when the kids are grown, or at least the last one is driving. 20 minutes away from friends, church,etc. is a lot when you’re in the thick of raising kids. 

This. 

Stay - you'd be giving WAY too much up for the main benefit being more animals. Driving 20-30 minutes for church activities sucks, and friendships are hard to maintain when it takes a car ride each way. Losing 40 minutes to drop off and another 40 to pick up adds up FAST. 

If they buy that big land, you could build later, when kids are driving. 

[73349]

I would stay unless you are just desperately bored and you want *both* more work to do at home--milk the cow, weed an even bigger garden, etc.--*and* more driving in your life for at least the next 10 years. Back and forth to church, back and forth to stores, back and forth to the library, back and forth to activities x4...

Your current location sounds pretty much ideal. Won't it be nice to be able to go over to their house for a little while or have them over to yours with a short ride! Yet doing that ride to get everywhere would be tiresome.

[Bambam]

I'd stay - assuming you can afford the modeling/repairs both financially and emotional energy. 

It sound ideal - a good fit house-wise. lovely location-wise, and increasing in value? Just lovely. 

There is NO way I'd want to live that close to any of my relatives. Maybe yours are better, but too close/no way to get away/everyone knows what you are doing - that would be too much for me. 

We used to live 20-30 minutes away. That travel takes a toll. We planned errands to correspond with activities (and would be even more rigorous about this with current gas prices!). Many folks wouldn't bring their kids over for play dates as it was too far away, but they were fine if I would pick up their kids and bring them over, or if I would bring my kids over there. So, the distance really cut down on casual social opportunities.  If you go somewhere once a day, that is an extra 30 minutes out of your day (20 minutes x 2 - your 10 minute commute). That doesn't sound like much, but it builds up over time. And running the grocery store because you need sour cream for supper - that gets tiring. 
 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

I am hesitant to suggest a compromise, but if you want one it’s that you should buy a few acres to have the farm (beef and a garden can be checked in on a couple of times a week), but definitely don’t move to a family compound situation.

[Scarlett]

I guess my age is showing because I  see real value in living on the same land as parents/parents in law.  As parents age being 20 minutes away can be a real problem.  A bigger problem than running up and down the road for kids activities. The legal part of it can be worked out easily enough…..the parents can deed over a few acres or whatever.  
 

If the in-laws are in decent health now then I can see holding off until the kids are older.  

[YaelAldrich]

I'm thinking about when the parents get old enough to need 24 hours a day care. To use Medicare they will have to spend down won't they? That would be hard if everyone owns property communally

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

I'm thinking about when the parents get old enough to need 24 hours a day care. To use Medicare they will have to spend down won't they? That would be hard if everyone owns property communally

Did I miss where it would be communially owned?

[MeaganS]

3 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I think it is a great empty nester plan.  Can you pm me what town?  I think I could figure it out but my. Rain is tired.  

Not communal probably. Maybe a trust or something or possibly just put in our name. We haven't worked it out yet but we'd be careful about it.

Dh's parents are young and healthy. Early 60s. In fact, all of his grandparents are also still alive, although they live across the country. So helping them isn't something we need to worry about for some time yet.

[Scarlett]

6 minutes ago, MeaganS said:

Not communal probably. Maybe a trust or something or possibly just put in our name. We haven't worked it out yet but we'd be careful about it.

Dh's parents are young and healthy. Early 60s. In fact, all of his grandparents are also still alive, although they live across the country. So helping them isn't something we need to worry about for some time yet.

Ok, so I stand by my suggestion to consider it when the kids are older.  Parents are healthy and fine until they are not.  My parents are less than 5 minutes from me and I really wish they would buy the house across the street.,

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that the only way to consider this would be if they would subdivide the property.  And even then, you’re giving up an awful lot for maybe not very much. But if you can manage it, and if they would subdivide, I might consider putting a trailer out there on my lot, and having an automatic place to spend the night, and work on the land development (homestead), and see how that goes, before actually building.  And re. Building, that might be just a little vacation cottage.

[kristin0713]

Absolutely stay. Location, location, location is SO important with kids! Maybe your ILs can buy the land and build a cottage and you can consider it in your next phase of life. 

 

[Corraleno]

You are so lucky to have the situation you have now, especially with the ages of your kids, I would not give that up for anything!

I built my "dream home" on three acres in a lovely little village that was a short walk to all the bike and horse trails along the RIo Grande bosque. We had horses and chickens and a big garden and the location was amazing — until the kids got older and had activities nearly every day in the city 30 minutes away. Most of the activities lasted a couple of hours, so it didn't make sense to drop them off, drive home, and then turn around an hour later and do another hour-long round trip, so I spent many many MANY hours just hanging around waiting for the kids. And often the times would overlap but not match, so it meant leaving at 4 to get DD to youth orchestra by 4:30, then head over to fencing practice with DS at 5, then wait around until it was time to pick up DD at 6:30, then wait around for DS till 7, then get home around 7:30, so that was 3.5 hours out of my day just driving and waiting around, multiplied by 4 or 5 times/week — and there were playdates and museum trips, etc, on weekends . Having to drive that far for pretty much everything was a serious PITA — and that was just with 2 kids. It would be exponentially worse with 4. When we moved to our current house my #1 priority was that the commute to their activities could not be more than 10 minutes, so I could drop them off and go home instead of waiting around.

Also, the idea of designing and building a custom house sounds like such a great opportunity to have everything you ever wanted in a home, but in the end there are still so many compromises, so many things go wrong, so many things you end up settling for that will likely bug you every day that you live there, that in hindsight I don't feel like it was worth the incredible level of stress and angst. I would never ever do it again, and if I had known how it was going to go, and how long it would really take, I would have just bought an existing house. 

 

 

[katilac]

I would not even consider moving. 

If your signature is fairly accurate, your Driving Years have just begun. I only have two kids, and they were often going to the same place, and the driving was still lunacy. So much less driving where you are, so many great activities, and it sounds like your kids can have a fair amount of independence in regards to getting around. 

Twenty minutes is an excellent distance away for family you like. If driving into town all the time would be manageable, then driving to visit them often would be manageable. And of course sometimes they can drive your way as well. 

The legal and financial aspects are complicated. I wouldn't move, but if I had to for some reason, I'd simply buy my own land next to theirs. Regardless of how you set it up, the house you build isn't going with you, should you decide to move again some day. 

My kids would have hated such a move, and I wouldn't have wanted to voluntarily move them from a great neighborhood and great friends. 

Lots of land is lots of work.  

Check internet availability and speed if that's important to you, and cell phone coverage. 

Mostly, I wouldn't trade a great actual location in reality for a dream location, bc there's a reason the word 'dream' is in there. 

[fraidycat]

Without hesitation, I insist that you Stay in town. Lol

A few years ago, we had the opportunity to live in a wonderful house in a small village 20 minutes out of town. I was *very* hesitant about it, but DH insisted. because he loved the house. I was never home. Like, ever. Because the kids had activities 4-6 days/week in town. Two kids, middle and early high school aged - so not driving yet. I did not drive back and forth, I would just hang out with family while waiting for the kids. Our fuel bill was high, quick/easy food bill was high, and I was just never home enough to really feel *at home* or enjoy the house - just tidy and clean it once in awhile. I can't imagine trying to add livestock and food growing on top of it!

Thankfully, we were only renting because we moved back in to town less than a year later.

[Ottakee]

I am firmly in the stay camp.  I had that hobby farm out in the country but after my divorce I sold it and moved into town so my kids could get jobs and do activities and use public transportation and bikes.   
 

if you wanted and could afford it, could you buy a piece of the land now and just put a camping trailer out there and if you wanted, spend weekends, etc out on the family farm?   Or just visit often?

[sweet2ndchance]

 I live in the sort of situation you are considering. My in-laws subdivided their larger piece of land and we put a house on it. I live mere yards from my MIL. We have a good relationship and 99% of the time everything is great. It has never caused major strife to be so close to my MIL but it does cause headaches every now and then.

We too had the aspiration of doing a hobby farm but we've had to pare down that idea as it gets harder and harder as dh and I have gotten older. You also have to consider, if your dh now has a nearly hour commute each day (20 minutes there and 20 minutes back) will he have the time and energy to put into hobby farming too? Are you willing and able to care for a large garden and/or animals on the weekdays if he is only available to do the larger tasks on the weekends? Even a hobby farm needs certain things done daily which makes for very long days if you have a 9-5 job too.

I like Ottakee's idea of taking the land now and putting some sort of camper trailer or tiny house or something small there for now and using it as a sort of vacation property. See if it is even something you would want to do before you totally commit to it. Then, when your kids are grown, it could be a wonderful time to move there for real. If your housing values have only gone up, you could sell for even more, build a smaller house since you will have an empty nest and have more money for the infrastructure (barns, sheds, water lines, fences, etc) needed for a hobby farm.

[Kanin]

15 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

what she said.

Ditto. I would much rather live 20 minutes from inlaws that I love than right next door to them. 

[skimomma]

Stay!  Low commute times and safe independent mobility for kids is priceless.  We enjoyed that when in the thick of kid-activities and it was great.  But a tiny home, mobile home, or RV on the property might be a fun compromise and potentially a good transition to a full-on move when the kids are out of the nest.  You could be "building" slowly by getting the legal logistics in place, putting in utilities, outbuildings, driveway, etc.... as you can afford it and be in a great place to move when the kids are all out.  And you would have a fun "vacation place" to crash for weekends and holidays with the family.

And, 50yo home is nothing!  LOL!  I have a 130yo home and it is a constant project.  I sometimes get wistful about building or buying something NEW.  But when I talk with people living in new, or at least "newer" homes, they report having a similar project rotation.  Houses have project lists whether they are old or new.  The devil you know and all that.....  And Carrie's new build experience has dashed the last of my "let's build" ideas!

[Carol in Cal.]

A cautionary tale:  

Friends of ours could never afford their own home until the man’s elderly father offered to let them build a house on his large city lot, big enough for 1-2 more houses than his own.  Friends did some kind of legal subdivide in which the house but not the land under it was legally theirs.  This seemed like a mere formality at first.

Father had a grown daughter who lived in a mobile home, also all she could afford (a nice one, double wide).

Then the father lived to be 100, and in the last few years of his life spent down his assets and went on Medicaid.  Medicaid put a lien on his home but he could keep it as long as he lived there.  Children and grandchildren put a ton of time into his care.  

When he died there was literally no estate.  Medicaid forced the sale of his home, and if our friends (grown son and his family) had not legally separated out their home, they would have lost everything, too.  As it was, they still had to move but were able to be paid for their house.  So they found a place to build a smaller one, and did so, but it took a very long time, so they lost their ability to move their equity into it and ended up paying a butt ton of supposedly unnecessary taxes on the sale of the first one.  Grown sister resented the brother for appearing to have benefitted from the estate by having bought the house legally ages before, so they were estranged.

Moral of the story:  combining property can make things go badly off the rails even if you try to plan for it.

[stephanier.1765]

My parents live 20 minutes away and that drive is miserable. Maybe if it was smooth sailing, I'd visit more often but now it's a stretch to visit once a month. I truly, truly hate that drive. When my kids were your kids age, I'd have given my right arm to live in the situation you have now. I also vote stay.