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Everything posted by Corraleno

  1. We don't celebrate, but I can understand why you'd want to acknowledge the day. What about something really simple, like getting a big box of donuts for breakfast, or having a "movie marathon" with popcorn or other treats? You can add a card saying how much you love him and are glad he's part of your family.
  2. I love that. ❤️ I used to say "love you always and forever no matter what" every night when I tucked my kids in. Now that they're (mostly) grown, sometimes I just text "always & forever" and they text back "nmw" (no matter what).
  3. That's true of Ruth's son (that his issue is asynchrony not 2e), but it's also possible for someone who does have ADHD and significant EF deficits to still understand what their limitations are, know when/how/who to ask for help, and then follow directions and make good use of the support they're given. I don't think that's a component of EF as much as it's a function of personality, self-awareness, and probably a certain amount of meta-cognitive explanation and instruction. Having known a lot of adults with ADHD and serious EF deficits (including being married to one for 22 years), my #1 priority with DS from the time he was very young was teaching him that (1) he should never be ashamed of the way his brain works (there are both advantages and disadvantages to his type of wiring) and (2) he should never be afraid to ask for help. I thought that learning how (and when and who) to ask for help, how to articulate exactly what you need, and how to build on the help you're given, was the most fundamental skill set I could give him — far more important than learning how to use a planner or put reminders in a phone or whatever. The "memory aid" stuff is helpful but superficial and relatively easy to pick up. Understanding that your brain is just different, not "wrong," and it's ok to ask for help with the things you're not good at, because there are lots of other things you are amazing at (and you can help other people with those), is a much harder lesson, because it needs to be really accepted and internalized to the extent that it changes how you see yourself and others.
  4. Obviously parents can only do as much as they can do. I think all kids deserve to have the level of support they need, whatever that is, and all parents should provide the level of support they're capable of, whatever that is. And if there is a gap between those two things, then the parent should help the child find outside resources to bridge that gap, not just withdraw support and throw them in the deep end to sink or swim. There's a significant difference between a parent saying "I will only provide X amount of support, because that's all that I am capable of," and saying "parents should not provide more than X amount of support, because Y-aged kids should not need more than that." The first recognizes that the limit is set by the parent's capabilities not the student's needs, while the second implies that the limit is set by some arbitrary standard of what needs are still "acceptable" at a given age.
  5. I think those of us who homeschooled with a lot of involvement and connection and discussion see the continuation of that in college as a perfectly natural and normal thing. Why would we suddenly cut that off? But from the other end I can see how, to a parent whose kid went to B&M school or took online courses where someone else did the teaching and grading and course management, the idea of a parent being involved in those things for a college kid would seem bizarre — surely there's someone in an office somewhere whose job that is. But if you, the parent, are the one who taught them to write, and you were the one reading the books and watching the lectures and having the discussions with them for all the years of homeschooling, then it makes perfect sense that you'd also be the one they call when they want advice about an essay or they want to hash out something they've been thinking about and need someone to bounce ideas off of.
  6. But if you look at Ruth's lists, none of those things are unique to a kid at MIT, and only two relate to being a foreign student. Being swamped with a ton of assignments in a 9 day period at the beginning of freshman year can happen at any university where the student is involved in a lot of activities or projects. A lot of the things on the list aren't even specifically related to EF, they're things a lot of parents would do even for NT kids just because they have a close relationship and that's their family culture. The difference is that when kids have significant EF issues, we tend to do lots of those things at once instead of just a few here and there. That's the point LSB was making earlier when she listed the things she does for her son — he can do each of the functions independently, but he cannot do all of them at once without help. I don't think it matters one bit which school someone attends, or whether they live an hour away or on the other side of the globe. What matters is what level of support this student needs (and wants) in this particular environment at this time in his or her life, in order to keep growing and moving forward. And that really applies to NT kids as well as those with more challenges. As long as you're seeing growth and forward movement, you're doing it right.
  7. Have you seen this article about Air BnB? Some of the outdated/incomplete/inaccurate photos may be intentional scams not just general incompetence.
  8. I loved your whole post, but this really sums it up for me. We love each other, so of course we help each other out. Why would I put age limits or other artificial constraints on that? I also find some of the distinctions between what's "acceptable" and not very strange. Like some people apparently think it's weird that a parent would arrange a haircut or make a doctor's appointment for anyone over 18, or send them food or whatever. But I wouldn't even put those things in the category of "EF supports" — to me those are just things family members do for each other because it's nice to make life a little easier for someone who is really busy. Like don't spouses do those things for each other? Do people not ever call a friend who's really swamped and ask if they can drop off a meal or run an errand or something? I think it's an interesting thought experiment to flip the scenario and ask what the "age limit" is for older people needing help. Like is it OK for an adult child to ask a 70 yr old parent if they're eating well, and maybe send over some healthy meals if it seems they aren't eating enough, but not appropriate at age 60? Is it OK for a 22 year old to pick up a prescription for a 55 year old parent, but not the other way around? I just totally don't get the age limit thing. Ditto to all of this. The idea that it's OK to ask for advice and help from some random stranger sitting in an office, who knows nothing about you and whose knowledge and judgment you have no clue about, but unacceptable to ask the same thing from the person you know and trust most in the world, is just so bizarre to me. DS and I are super close and have been having long intense discussions about everything under the sun for two decades — why would that stop just because he's in college? Like you, I think a lot of what some people might consider "support" is just normal conversation for us. I know the frequency and intensity will lessen over time, but I sure hope those conversations continue for another couple of decades.
  9. I really like this. It's a simple, clear, flexible, adaptable metric: if you're seeing growth and forward movement, then you're providing the right level of support and it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. If you notice that forward movement has stopped, then you need to look closely and figure out why that is. It may be that the dc is stuck in a bit of a rut and gently loosening support may result in a new growth spurt. Or it may be that something new is happening that's causing so much stress the current level of support is just barely keeping them functioning and what they need is more support, even temporarily, so there is energy for growth and forward movement again.
  10. Yeah, DS's issues do not involve ASD; we've never had issues with inflexibility or noncompliance or inability to transition (well, not beyond the age of maybe 6 or 7, which I think is pretty common for NT kids, too). I think it gets confusing when someone who is dealing with one set of EF issues (ASD) insists that certain types of support are not appropriate for college kids with a totally different set of EF issues (ADHD). There's really no reason why a 2e kid with ADHD (not ASD) should be held back until all EF skills are at NT level (which may never happen), or should have to choose a college based primarily on the level of EF support available. I mean, if 99% of someone's brain is totally capable of doing the work at MIT, or any other school that offers the level of challenge that student wants, it's crazy to keep them from that just because they may need a little parental support for the other 1%, especially for the first year or two.
  11. I do think girls have a much harder time getting diagnosed properly, and when their issues aren't properly diagnosed as an LD there tends to be more of a stigma — like a girl with EF issues, who does not have other obvious LDs, will often just get labeled as an "airhead" or called ditzy or flakey. In a boy, EF issues are more likely to be seen as signs to look for related LDs, or else dismissed as no big deal — so the boy gets labeled as an "absent-minded professor type" while a girl with the same issues gets labeled as an "airhead." I also think a certain level of sexism comes into play depending on whether the parent providing support is male or female. It's much more acceptable for a female college student to get texts and reminders from mom, while it's more likely to be stigmatized as wimpy or embarrassing for a male student. A dad providing support for his son (academic, athletic, emotional, or whatever) is likely to be seen as involved, supportive parenting, while a mother providing the same level of support for a son is seen as controlling or helicoptering or whatever.
  12. I think a certain amount of that happens in families where both spouses are NT, too — EF tasks like planning, scheduling, making appointments, remembering birthdays, etc. end up falling on the woman, even if she works just as many hours as the man. And if she complains about being stuck with all those tasks (aka all the unpaid "emotional labor"), the husband says "Well if you want help all you have to do is ask." In other words, if you don't want to be responsible for all the EF tasks, just perform the EF tasks of breaking things down into manageable assignments, and provide me with instructions and reminders to do the one component that doesn't really require EF!
  13. Not only are there limitations in terms of input, in the sense of screening out many for whom that type of rigid/punitive structure won't work, there are additional losses along the way when some drop out or are discharged early, and then there also seem to be a whole lot of people who make it through but then fall apart once they no longer have that structure. Because the rigidity and punitive basis of the system didn't actually teach them self-control and self-discipline, it just provided external controls that prevented them from screwing up. For example, a large percentage of homeless men in America are military veterans.
  14. DS lasted two months in kindergarten before he came home sobbing that the teacher told him "no one would ever love a boy like me." When I called the principal, I discovered that he was getting sent to her office nearly every day for "disobedience" like not sitting still, not being quiet, not following directions, not paying attention, etc. A four year old. He never went back. He started 1st grade at a Montesssori school (which allows for lots of movement) but by 3rd grade he was way behind in reading and math, his dyslexia was more than apparent, and his teacher was concerned he needed SpEd services the school didn't have. So I put him in PS, where I (stupidly) thought he would get the help he needed. I was helping with a project in class one day and got to see what his day was like. The teacher would mumble while standing with her back to the class, but when he asked her to repeat something, she'd snap at him at him for "not paying attention." I watched him stare out the window, become totally focused on a fly in the room, and drop his pencil multiple times while trying to fill in a worksheet, and I watched him literally fall out of his chair for no apparent reason — like he was sitting there trying really hard to focus on the teacher at the front of the room when he literally just... fell over. She yelled at him and told him to stop "fooling around." I thought if that's how she treats him when a parent is right there in the room, what's it like the rest of the time??? So that's how we ended up homeschooling. And homeschooling is the reason a dyslexic ADHD 4th grader who could barely read and couldn't spell his own name right half the time, turned into a 6th grader reading the Iliad for fun, who turned into a 7th grader working harder than he'd ever worked in this life to learn Ancient Greek, who eventually turned into a college sophomore with a 3.95 GPA in advanced courses. And that clumsy kid who couldn't even sit in a chair without falling over ended up with drawer full national and international medals and an athletic scholarship. If I seem overly, uhh, "passionate" on this topic, or overreactive, it's because I have held a sobbing child who was thought no one would ever love him because he couldn't sit still.
  15. Yeah, I have seen punishment of ADHD behavior backfire spectacularly in some cases, including extended family. I'm sincerely glad it worked OK in the previous poster's case, but the outcome is not always positive — and you don't always know how badly it backfired until the damage is done.
  16. My 2e ADHD/dyslexic/SPD kiddo is 2400 miles away, unfortunately. I'm glad both of our boys are still getting the EF support they need.
  17. No one criticized the idea that "learning to identify/articulate needs and advocate for them should be part of the work of secondary education." We are all doing those things, and have been for years. The pushback was against the implication that if you do those things, there would be no need for parental support beyond the age of 18. This is not an either/or choice — teach them the skills to find their own resources or keep helping them. It doesn't matter how good they are at advocating for themselves and using all available resources, if the resources they need are not available. Also, you said that you would not allow even a very bright kid to start college until they were fully capable of functioning with zero EF support from you, so that got a response from folks with very bright kids currently in college who feel that holding them back, possibly for years, because of brain issues they have no control over, can be not only demoralizing and damaging to the student, but may be entirely futile. As far as finding colleges that can meet all of a student's EF needs, that is certainly an option. Just be aware that this may be harder than you think, and it may involve significant trade-offs, such as limiting your child to schools that may be below (sometimes well below) their academic level and/or may not offer the programs/courses/majors they want. And those things in turn may limit future career and educational prospects.
  18. Most of the discussion in this thread actually has very little to do with a public schooled 6th grader messing up one project. I think most of the posts are a reaction against (1) the idea that "sink or swim" is an appropriate (or successful) approach to dealing with an ADHD student, (2) that it's unacceptable and inappropriate for parents to provide any EF support to college kids, and (3) that providing EF supports to people with ADHD beyond a certain age or grade equals coddling or helicoptering and will prevent kids from ever learning to advocate for themselves or develop their own management systems. None of those things are true.
  19. And this is a perfect illustration of why those who try to reframe the issue as "Well, I intend to teach my kid to advocate for him/herself instead of doing everything for them" is setting up an entirely false dichotomy. We have all taught our kids to advocate for themselves and avail themselves of all available resources! The issue is that sometimes the resources they need are not available, and that's when a parent sometimes steps in. We are not out in front of these kids clearing their paths and solving their problems for them. We are providing the support they need, that they ask for, when they have done all the advocating possible and they simply cannot get what they need any other way.
  20. Many (most?) of the parents posting in this thread about our college students have been on this board, discussing these issues, since our kids were elementary-age. Believe me, all of our kids have had enormous freedom to explore their abilities, and they have had plenty of opportunities to fail — far more than most NT kids will ever have to deal with. Appropriate accommodations for LDs do not deprive children of freedom to explore or learn from failure.
  21. Or even work for that particular child once he's in college. And when you can no longer "punish" a 19 or 20 year old college student for not finishing his work by preventing him from hanging out with friends, what then?
  22. I do get it. I had 22 years experience dealing with a spouse with severe ADHD and EF issues, compounded by mental illness, and 4 more (so far) dealing with an ex-spouse (his choice, not mine) to whom I still provide a lot of support, even though his actions no longer affect me personally or financially. I absolutely understand how draining it is — dealing with both a husband and child with ADHD is like having 2/3 of your brain-space occupied full time by squatters who don't pay rent. It's super frustrating and often exhausting. Reading your post (above), I totally get what you're talking about, and it makes sense. I apologize if my question came across as snarky or flippant, but without the above context, the short version (only helping if it affects you personally or financially) was genuinely shocking to me. I'm still providing EF support and even financial help to the person who accused me of trying to kill him by "scrambling his brains" with invisible brain waves. If you genuinely feel like you will not have the band-width to provide some level of EF support to your daughter if she continues to need it beyond 18, then I would urge you to start thinking about a Plan B that is not sink or swim, despite what your not-entirely-functional ADHD husband thinks. Because every single parent of a college student with EF deficits on this thread is telling you that your DD is very likely to need some level of support in college, especially in the beginning. If you feel like, for the sake of your own sanity, you can't be the one providing that, then your options are: (1) refuse to let her start college until she can manage it entirely on her own (which may be never); (2) limit her choices to colleges that offer significant EF supports (and you will need to ask very detailed questions about exactly what they will and won't do, because a lot of disability offices really do not understand EF issues); or (3) hire a private EF coach. Good EF coaches are like unicorns and can be super expensive if you can even find one, and colleges that are known for catering to kids with LDs and EF issues are not always the most rigorous and may not have all the programs or majors the student is interested in. If it's in the budget, you might want to start looking for an EF coach who can work with her now (or at the very least in HS), since that would relieve you of some of the burden (and possibly lessen the pushback from your DD), and she would have a good working relationship with that person before she starts college.
  23. I'd like to try this — what would you recommend?
  24. It wasn't meant to be snarky, I was just taken aback by the previous answer. I expected something along the lines of "because I love him and want him to be successful and we're a team" not "well if I didn't help him it would cause financial problems that affect me." Like that answer would never have occurred to me in a million years, and I wasn't sure how to even read it. And then she did in fact confirm that she doesn't help him with anything that doesn't directly affect her personally or financially — if he loses his job due to EF issues, that's fine because it won't financially affect her.
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