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Frances

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Everything posted by Frances

  1. You are conveniently leaving out the most important factor here, the character, personality traits, and motives of our president. Yes, both sides have a fringe element. Yes, our enemies would like to see us weakened and vulnerable. But instead of the usual and very necessary peaceful transfer of power we are here now with thousands of National Guard troops protecting the US Capitol and state capitols throughout the country ahead of the presidential inauguration primarily due to the words and actions of our current president and those who enabled and supported him. People from both sid
  2. Once again, just as you did earlier in this thread, I think you are purposely misinterpreting unhappiness with and statements about the electoral college with what is happening now. Yes, many people do not think the electoral college is fair and would like to see it go away and have the popular vote prevail so that one person equals one vote. And there are various movements to change it, including the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. But trying to work for change between presidential elections is not at all the same as trying to overturn the valid results of an election. The key is th
  3. And I’m astounded at people continuing to trying to equate two things that aren’t remotely the same. People not liking the results and/or how votes might have been influenced is not even close to the sitting president lying and spreading disinformation and propaganda about the “stolen” election (including before it even occurred!) despite all evidence to the contrary, numerous other leaders jumping on board and doing the same, refusing to concede, and inciting people to do something about it. And then continuing to lie about all of it and with very few exceptions, not take any responsibility f
  4. No fraud anywhere? I don’t think that is even possible, after all we are human. Although I suppose people might argue over what constitutes fraud (is allowing mail in ballots because of a pandemic fraud? is some voting or counting procedure accidentally not being followed for a few ballots fraud?). Personally, I assume all major elections have some fraud, even if it’s minuscule, but there is a vast difference between that and the idea that the election was stolen. I also personally don’t see believing there there was some fraud to be incompatible with the statement that it was the most secure
  5. At least in regards to the election, our judiciary and many local and state elected officials held strong despite intense pressure. And for that I am eternally grateful. It’s one of the few things that continues to give me hope about our country.
  6. Something repeatedly stated by our president is fringe? I wish, but unfortunately when he says something, no matter how untrue, a significant chunk of people believe it and spread it. That is just one of numerous examples. And although I wish it were true as you stated above that the vast majority of Americans outside of the fringe share a basic set of facts, I strongly disagree. If it wasn’t obvious before 2020, it certainly is now. Just two among many example are the election and covid. Lies, disinformation, and propaganda are very, very effective when used repeatedly. How many
  7. As already pointed out, we can disagree on policy, approaches, issues, what’s best for the country, etc. But if we can’t agree on even the most basic facts, then we can’t really meaningfully discuss any of the rest. The continual lies, disinformation, and propaganda coupled with many living in media and social media bubbles means we can’t even really reach the point of democratically debating and discussing issues, policies, etc because we aren’t starting with a set of basic shared facts.
  8. And others in the same group are terrified by our current populist, authoritarian president who tried to overturn valid election results. No one person speaks for an entire group. Plus one needs to keep in mind who each side chose to be their leader. That has far more influence than a handful of Congress people. The continual refusal to acknowledge the serious damage the current office holder has done to our democratic norms and institutions, even after last week’s events, continues to amaze me. The techniques just vary from placing the blame elsewhere (it was actually antifa or it’s all
  9. I’ve been watching one episode at night before bed. I’m really enjoying it, as it has been a very long time since I read the books.
  10. I have a subscription to the paper, but not the add on of the games or recipes or whatever else. You can play up to a certain and point and then it says something like “You are very good at this, click here to subscribe”. You can however do the full mini crossword with just a basic subscription.
  11. I’ve been doing it for months, but only the free version. That and the small crossword are part of my nighttime routine.
  12. While I disagree that it’s assumed that someone who votes for a particular candidate did it because they like the most negative aspects of them, a significant number of prominent lifelong Republican leaders (governors, senators, representatives, national security officials, military leaders, etc) have come out strongly to say that no conservative principle, policy, or judge is worth having such a person as the leader of their party and the country for many reasons, not the least of which is the profound risk to our democratic norms and institutions. They obviously have a line in the sand they
  13. It was predicted before the election. https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/10/22/these-five-states-are-at-highest-risk-of-heightened-militia-activity-around-the-election/?sh=3412d09b1949 OR actually has a very racist history. I think they were protesting all of the pandemic restrictions, including the Capitol being closed for the one day special session. It might also have included “stop the steal” stuff. There have been so many lately it’s hard to keep them all straight and conspiracies around the pandemic and the election have become pretty intertwined here, as you c
  14. PNW. Plenty of militia, white supremacy, and Christian nationalism stuff here including Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer. https://www.opb.org/article/2020/12/21/oregon-legislature-special-session-protests/ https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2020/12/oregon-lawmakers-kick-off-third-special-session-of-2020-as-right-wing-group-protests-outside.html https://www.opb.org/article/2021/01/08/video-oregon-capitol-mike-nearman/ https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/01/protest-against-coronavirus-restrictions-underway-in-salem.html https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2021/01/
  15. Unfortunately it won’t be anything new here. We’ve had months of armed “end the pandemic mandates” and/ or “stop the steal” protests. The violence does seem to be escalating though, as now they no longer seem to see the police as being on their side.
  16. I just watched this video posted elsewhere and it actually made me feel more hopeful than anything I’ve read or heard since the events of last week. I hope it might do the same for some others.
  17. And I offered as a thought experiment for people to think about what their lines in the sand are when it comes to leaders. And whether they consistently draw the same line regardless of party. We’ve certainly seen lots of shifting lines from our leaders over the last several years. Would that change if we as citizens each held firm to our lines regardless of which side was crossing it?
  18. Maybe not in DC on January 6, but there have been plenty of “stop the steal” and “end the mandate” protestors going into neighborhoods around the country where governors, other elected officials, or even ordinary state workers live and making threats. Not to mention reporters being attacked and property damaged during protests, especially those in state capitals. And at least in my state, the Capitol is very close to both residential and commercial neighborhoods, so having lots of armed people protesting and/or marching with bursts of violence and property damage can be quite scary for those l
  19. Different ideologies don’t concern me too much as a moderate. But certain leaders certainly do and that goes for more than one. On the other hand, there are some leaders from the party I’m not registered with that I would love to be able to vote for right now for any position they wanted, as they have shown so much honor, integrity, character, and trueness to the values and morals they espouse.
  20. I agree he was a long time in the making. But I also think he could have been stopped earlier by other elected officials in his party. It wasn’t just the populace that enabled and supported him. Suddenly lots of other elected officials got on board because they realized the votes and power they could gain and/or because they were afraid of losing power. Or because some were actually true believers. While some, especially former officials, did draw a line in the sand and stay firm, many did not. Fortunately more did it in 2020 and became more vocal about it. And even more are now jumping ship.
  21. Having been raised Catholic, I definitely encountered that among evangelicals when I went to college. And since I know what state she is in I’m sure it’s a much more widespread belief there than where I grew up. But since she said even some fellow Catholics didn’t consider him to be Catholic, I was trying to follow the logic all the way to him wanting to or at least allowing the Christian church to be abolished.
  22. I both agree and disagree with you. The populace is very concerning, especially given as you succinctly put it that many are living in their own reality. But while I agree that those on either extreme can be dangerous, I also think leaders who are fundamentally unfit to lead and intent on dividing the populace and doing whatever is necessary (lies, disinformation, propaganda, unethical and borderline illegal maneuvers, breaking democratic norms and eroding democratic institutions, etc) in order to remain in power can result in terrible things happening, regardless of how moderate or extreme th
  23. So they don’t believe he is a “real” Christian, even though he says he is and attends mass regularly. (And I’m assuming as “real” Christians they are consistently and not selectively pro-life and carefully following all pandemic mandates, oppose capital punishment, support affordable, quality healthcare for all, etc. ). So why do they then think he would want to abolish the very church he attends, even if it as a “fake” Christian? Or do they think that he attends mass is actually a lie or an act? So he would not just be fine with all Christian churches going away, but will actively advocate fo
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