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Frances

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  1. The problem with this idea when taken to the extreme is that people have used it throughout time and place to justify some pretty horrific things (murder, rape, child abuse, etc). Obviously we aren’t remotely talking about anything like that here, but if no one is accountable to anyone else (either inside or outside their faith) and is to act solely based on what they personally believe God is calling them to do, then it seems like there is at least the potential for bad things, both big and small, to result.
  2. I had someone from my son’s college call and ask for a donation during his freshman year. I told them I wanted to wait and see what kind of educational experience he had before I decided whether or not to donate, so they should check back with me in four years.
  3. In addition to some already mentioned (I don’t really do vitamins or supplements), I wear thin gloves in public during the winter for both warmth and germ protection and wash my hands every time upon arriving home, in addition to never using my hands to eat at work or in public even after washing them. I only use utensils, as it’s pretty hard to not touch public things after washing and I hate hand sanitizer. I can’t remember the last time I was sick. Edited to add don’t touch your face. That can be a tough one for kids, but my son eventually got the hang of it. It also helps later with acne. And if anyone in the home is sick, disinfect doorknobs and handles, light switches, etc. Basically anything that is touched communally. And I don’t know how much difference it makes, but I don’t have a smart phone. So I’m not touching communal things and then touching my phone or making a call. Preventing illness is not the reason I don’t have a smart phone, but I think it helps.
  4. I’m fine with stepping back from this thread. I just don’t think there is equivalence in the idea of imposing morality on others when generally only one side is trying to legally restrict rights and protections.
  5. I think complicated because in cases such as gay marriage and gay rights, people want to use their beliefs to enact laws that limit the rights of others while preserving their own. So it’s one thing to say I think gay marriage is wrong and I won’t get one and will discourage my children from doing so and won’t attend one. But quite another to say I think it should be illegal for anyone to have a SS marriage and people should be allowed to discriminate against gays in hiring, housing, public accommodations, etc., despite the fact that many people have no moral or religious issue with homosexuality. Or I think birth control is immoral and I choose not to use it myself, but I also think birth control should be illegal for everyone, even those who do not share my religious or moral beliefs. Even though I feel pretty strongly about some moral issues, especially around children and families, I’m not trying to make things illegal or take rights away from others. And I’d be first at the protest if anyone tried to force churches to perform SS marriages. And I honestly don’t care if anyone attends a gay marriage or not and of course everyone needs to make their own decision. I’m just trying to make the point that simply because you think some action is immoral or wrong based on your religious beliefs, it doesn’t necessarily make it so. In fact, I think the very opposite is often true. People use their religious beliefs to justify doing and supporting immoral things. Our country has a very long history of some Christians doing just that.
  6. No How is the gay couple getting married harming anyone? They are simply doing a legal thing and committing themselves to each other for the rest of their lives. And I never said others have to feel the same way. In the example I gave, the gay grandson had no problem with his grandma thinking gay marriage was wrong due to her Catholicism and not choosing one for herself. But she also isn’t going to expect her gay grandson to follow her Catholic beliefs because he is not Catholic, so she will of course attend the wedding of her beloved grandson. They are both demonstrating mutual love and respect for each other’s beliefs. And where does it end? If a parent or grandparent won’t attending the wedding, is the married couple not welcome in their home? Will they not visit them in their home? Will they not recognize the spouse as part of the family?
  7. It is interesting to me, but it’s also why I now hesitate less to state when I think some people’s religious views and practices are doing harm, on both an individual and global level. Now not nearly to the extent I actually feel that way, but for a long time I held way back. And in general, I think it’s good to actually know what is in people’s hearts and how they put their believes into practice and to put them out there to see the light of day.
  8. And it is entirely possible to attend an event you believe is wrong (gay marriage) and not engage in sin or condone what you believe to be sin. It’s even possible to attend and not say things like “congratulations”, but rather “I love you”. It’s also entirely possible to love someone but still do harm to them and sin against them, even when you may not think you are doing so. And I too believe in right and wrong, although I think many things are more gray, as maize stated earlier.
  9. But they don’t think they are sinning because they don’t share your religious beliefs. I think your not attending the marriage is you playing God and saying you know definitely what is right and wrong and you expect others to do the same regardless of their different religion or beliefs, so what if they are harmed, rather than showing love. And for me, that is a greater wrong. But a I think ultimately we have to agree to disagree.
  10. So then why do Christians differ on whether or not killing is ok during war or for capital punishment? As for your last example, see my article linked toward the very beginning of this thread where a dad doing something very similar helped to bring about profound positive change for a young man.
  11. So people didn’t really have to steal food to stay alive during the German occupation of many countries during WWII? Some people today in warn torn countries don’t have to choose between stealing food or their children dying? Of course people have choices when it comes to marriage and sex, just as people have a choice to hold others to their beliefs or allow others to believe differently while loving and supporting them and holding steadfast to their own beliefs.
  12. Would you ever support or at least not condemn or report someone for stealing to provide food for their starving child if neither you nor they could provide food in any other way? People have certainly found themselves in that situation before throughout time and place and likely still do today. Otherwise, I think your example is so contrived as to be meaningless.
  13. My mom and some of her Catholic friends refer to this as the phenomenon of people who think they are more Catholic than the Pope.
  14. I agree. And I don’t think community service is likely a hardship for any wealth or even economically secure person. It’s more likely to be a hardship for those short on time, money, transportation, etc. That said, in those cases it might be a better alternative than jail time or fines which could cause someone to lose a job or go in to debt, and there’s always the chance someone might make a good connection while doing community service.
  15. Another example would be people attending a second marriage when in their faith that would constitute committing adultery on the part of those getting married. Some might apply their beliefs and standards to any couple, some only to couples who share their faith, and some only to themselves.
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