What are your goals for your kids, as far as college?

[Drama Llama]

I'm surrounded by people who put a very high priority on getting their kids into the right college, and make decisions from very early on that are based on how they are likely to impact college applications.  It's amazing to me how often it comes up with both family and the parents of my kids' classmates and teammates. They seem to take for granted that this is what everyone should want for their kids. 

I feel like I swing back and forth.  There are moments when I can definitely fall into that thinking (I know I've posted during some of them!), and other moments when I feel like it's not a way I want to think.

So, I'm curious what other people think. 

For context, I'm thinking of things like:

My mom sending me money to buy tickets to a college sporting event for my youngest DS's birthday, and telling me I should buy them at specific schools with the highest US News ranking, rather than at my state flagship which is closer, and better at the sport, but not as elite or highly ranked academically.  Her thinking is that the more my kid is exposed to the "elite" schools the more likely he'll be motivated to go to one, and not "settle" for the flagship. 

Several family members telling me I shouldn't have let my youngest kid skip practice for Pop's birthday, because earning a spot on the starting roster now is critical so that he's getting a lot of playing time when he's old enough to play in showcases for college coaches. 

As my oldest tries to sort out what to choose from all the music things he wants to do, trying to sort out how much of a priority should be placed on what looks good for college admissions.  

Multiple people telling me that I made a mistake letting my kid choose soccer as his primary sport, when he seems to have equal at other sports that have better recruiting stats.  

People bringing college placement into every conversation about schools, classes, extracurriculars, camps etc . . .  as if it obviously should be the driving factor in those decisions.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Baseballandhockey
grammar

[mommyoffive]

None.  

I had pressure put on me from extended family to attend college.  That was seen as the only path forward.  I listened to that part.  I was told by my mom to go to community college.  Wish I would have listened to that.  Instead went to expensive private college.  Anyhow now I am a SAHM so the degree really wasn't highly useful to me at all. 

So I am open with my kids.  Do we talk about college?  Sure.  Is that the only path I am ok with them taking?  Heck no.  I want them to do whatever they want and feel joy from.  Become a plumber.  Be a professional dancer.  Travel the world.  Join the Peace Corps.  Whatever.  I feel like it is easier now too because college can be so flexible.  You can go part time.  Or online.  I basically want them to know that college is not the only way forward.  Does it help a lot of people work in the careers they do, yes and in that fact it is important.  I also just think it is a lot of pressure to put on a 16 year old to pick the right college and career path going forward. 

I could not deal being around people who are hyper focusing on college.  And for what it is worth I live in a college town and it is just not the environment we are around.  A bit of people will talk about it when the kid is in 11 or 12 grade that we know, but even though it isn't something other than "Oh is Sue going college or what is she doing?"    And to add that most everyone we know has a college degree and some work for the University.  

The goals I have for my kids are that they grow into happy, healthy, kind, and functional adults.

Edited September 17, 2022 by mommyoffive

[Ali in OR]

We live on the other coast. I can tell you with 3 siblings living in California and having taught in one of the top academic high schools in that state that prepping for college admissions is a big deal there and getting into top colleges is extremely competitive. Like what you're describing. And schools that were not considered top colleges when I was in high school there (some of the UC's for instance) are now much harder to get into. Things here in Oregon are much more laid back. We have decent state schools (not as name brand as the UC's but certainly fine for launching careers), and unlike CA, our kids can get into them just with good high school grades.

Our youngest was a strong high school athlete. It can be tempting to think that sports are your ticket into college. But we value choosing schools for academics over sports, and at least on this coast, the kids who live to play their sport in college are usually in a Division 3 school. Our dd decided pretty early on that she didn't want the stress of playing a sport in college (it's a full time job and they own you) but she did want to go to a bigger, more academic university. She's at UC Davis and thrilled with her choice to do the club track and field team there--great friends, she still gets to travel to meets and do what she loves, but she also has time for her studies as an engineering major.

If your kids' hearts are set on going to a school that has a low acceptance rate, I do think you need to play the college admissions prep game a bit. I don't think sports are that game for most--do fine arts/music, pursue opportunities for service and leadership, become an interesting person with a great story to tell on admissions essays.

[Katy]

I don’t want to type too much personal information but I went to a highly competitive school and I honestly think it makes very little difference in anything. If a kid wants to go to grad school they need research experience, and that’s as good from a state flagship school as it is from MIT. If they want to be a doctor they need to also get fluent in Spanish. If they want to be an engineer they need a school that is accredited for engineering. 

My goal for my kids isn’t competitive anything. It’s to get an education that prepares them for a job. Preferably a higher paying job, but that’s really up to them. And frankly for the two youngest my goal is probably going to be living independently, because it’s increasingly apparent they both have special needs. 

[alisoncooks]

I’ve always assumed my kids would get a 4-year degree. DH and I went that route; DH recently finished a(n unnecessary) master’s degree, just to have it. That said, our professions are not high paying…at all (they were “callings”). So, all that work, all those student loans, for years of paycheck-to-paycheck living. I’d like my kids to avoid that.

Idk what my kids will do. Neither are super strong academically; nor are they ambitious or competitive. One is an artist and wants to go that route — I’m still not sure how she’ll make that into a living. The other loves plants, so at this point we’re considering a 2-yr associates from the cc in sustainable agriculture. But she really just wants to work in a nursery or (dream job) a historical gardens. 

Edited September 17, 2022 by alisoncooks

[teachermom2834]

I’m sick of it, honestly. 
 

I have a 24 yo who went to a school that no one has ever heard of and had an offer at a Big 4 accounting firm waiting for him when he graduated. He’s at the top of his cohort on all his performance evals and doing extremely well. 
 

I have a 22 yo who went out of state to a decent huge public U and is doing ok career wise. Not great but ok. He really didn’t take advantage of things available to him at his university. He could have done more and it is entirely on him, not the school.
 

My 19 yo is on a full ride to our average ranked state flagship (though pursuing some of its mostly highly ranking programs). He is doing amazing networking and getting chosen for all sorts of things. Basically he can have his choice of anything he wants to do. He’s that kid. He could have gotten into more competitive schools but can’t imagine any advantage he would have over what he is doing now. Last night he was working an event with very famous alumni, works with the chancellor and president of the university, and that is kind of a big deal at a major state flagship. And it is all free for him. 
 

My dd is in 9th grade at a private high school. I dismiss all college talk they throw at them. She is only 9th grade and I don’t want to hear it. They had a college fair and a lot of the 9th graders parents made them go. I wouldn’t have let my dd if she wanted to. It’s too much too soon all the time. At the end of the day most of these kids stay at home and commute to the state U satellite campus or go to the flagship or one of the directional schools. That is all fine but none of it merits college college college all the time at these kids. 
 

If we had tons of money to spend on a fancy school then I guess maybe I would care about getting into one of these prestigious colleges with the big names. I’m not dismissing their value. But it just isn’t a realistic goal for the vast vast majority of families either by academics or finances. So they have these kids and parents tied in knots over looking good for colleges and taking the ACT ten times blah blah blah and then their kid is not the student for those elite schools or it isn’t feasible financially anyway. 
 

My dd is going to be the right kind of student but financially it is a complete non-starter. After three kids going to college we know it’s not something we are going to do. State flagship is probably the most we would take on financially (with scholarships). She doesn’t need to fuss and fret over that at all. So we are off the college crazy train and I intend to be very blunt with her guidance counselors that we aren’t doing the competitive college thing. I know they will want to boast about big acceptances and she is a top student but we just aren’t doing that.

My personal thought is that no one should do anything just to look good for colleges. Your high school years are way too short and my kids have been too busy with things they actually cared about to do things just to look good. And then people say things like “it looks good on college applications to volunteer for VBS”. No, it really doesn’t. To stand out it has to be much much bigger than that. So I get frustrated with people telling my kids to do stuff for college applications. 
 

It’s pretty soul sucking to spend your teen years chasing some elite college dream. I’m very much against that. I bristle at the constant tone of conversation and how it colors every discussion and decision. I played that a little with my first one and learned from it. 

I’m a big believer in college education and I want my kids to do the best they can and follow the best opportunities they can. But not at the cost of spending their teen years focused on it. I’ve known a lot of kids that have done that and for most of them it has been pretty disappointing as they didn’t get where they spent all that time focused on going. 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by teachermom2834

[Bambam]

I wanted my kids to find a career they would enjoy, be good at, be morally acceptable to them, and pay enough so they could afford to live/not be supported by parents.  If that was college, fine. If that was something else, fine. 

I did homeschool them so they would be prepared to go to college. Both chose to do so. One has already graduated with her BS. The other is working a combined bachelor/master program. 

We visited a lot of campuses. I was not interested in the 'top' schools, I wanted them to find a campus that they would enjoy and be a successful place for them. Quite frankly, the scholarships they were offered (academic merit) did play into the discussion/decision too. When we started visiting campuses (open houses so public events), it became obvious that my oldest would not like nor thrive at a large campus (>40K), so we started looking at smaller schools. Some campuses were physically unattractive to her (outside beauty is important to her), so those got crossed off the list quickly. Some we found were not the safest. Those got crossed off the list too.  She had some criteria that she was interested in. We, the parents and financial support, had some criteria as well.

I attended several different colleges getting my BS - mostly because I got married and we moved, etc. Different schools have different cultures/values/lifestyle. It's nice to have a campus you 'fit'. 

Quite frankly, these people should keep their opinions to themselves. Your kids, you know what is best for them. 

[KSera]

20 minutes ago, Katy said:

I don’t want to type too much personal information but I went to a highly competitive school and I honestly think it makes very little difference in anything. If a kid wants to go to grad school they need research experience, and that’s as good from a state flagship school as it is from MIT. If they want to be a doctor they need to also get fluent in Spanish. If they want to be an engineer they need a school that is accredited for engineering. 

My goal for my kids isn’t competitive anything. It’s to get an education that prepares them for a job. Preferably a higher paying job, but that’s really up to them. And frankly for the two youngest my goal is probably going to be living independently, because it’s increasingly apparent they both have special needs. 

Pretty much all this. Our default goal for our kids is college, but we have zero emphasis on it being a particular kind or status of college. I think parents have gone nuts on that, and for the majority of fields, it matters little to none where they actually went. I don’t know why so many parents think it does, other than to give themselves status for where their kid attends. That said, we strive to help them keep as many options open as possible so they can choose a school that is the best academic and social fit for them and financial fit for us. For some kids, that will be a prestigious school, but if it’s taking a ridiculous amount of effort to try to get a kid into a school like that, maybe it’s not a fit anyway. 
 

And while college is our default expectation, that doesn’t make it a requirement. If it’s not a fit for a kid, we will help find them a different fit. 

[Guest]

I have one who has the potential to be highly competitive for selective schools. And we live in an area where there is very high pressure to get into good universities. But we want her to live a balanced life, and the road to selective University these days does not seem balanced at all. We are encouraging her to pursue her interests deeply, but to make sure she has time for sleep, exercise, and community. We are not pushing her to do things that are resume builders just for the sake of building the resume.  It’s hard not to feel a little apprehensive about how things will turn out for college admissions (that might sound ludicrous but living in this area it’s part of the air you breathe), but we will see.  This one hasn’t really thought about where she might want to go or what she might want to study yet.

 The other one is very, very bright, but not one to easily check all the traditional academic check boxes.  I think he will have a different path. I don’t know how to think about College admissions for this one. 

[Guest]

Off topic, but it’s kind of fun to see how many users are in a thread. It’s like an invitation to a party…

[bolt.]

I don't, by habit, set 'goals' for other people. I set goals for how well I want to serve or provide for my kids, but I don't go so far as to have a 'goal' for what they are going to do in response to the the things I do for them.

I also exist in a different context in terms of colleges and universities (in Canada) which tend to have more grades-based entry requirements for various programs. The requirements are known in advance, and if you meet the requirements, you can expect to get into that program. Sometimes there's an essay. (It's possible that some few 'very prestigious' universities somewhere in this country do personalized admissions that take sports or other activities into consideration... but if so, those really aren't on my radar enough that I'm even aware of how it would work.)

Something like sports, volunteering, or membership in various organizations might be relevant for scholarships, but not for admissions.

I have always assumed and implied that doing some form of college or university was normal and expected for them.

So, for me, all I do is make sure they are ready for high school (in my homeschooling years), help them focus on their grades during high school (as much as they let me into their worlds to actually do that), make sure they understand the relevant admissions processes (and scholarship processes), and facilitate them attending open houses or tours for schools and programs that they express an interest in.

What they do with all of that is up to them.

(If they were to ask for more help or support, I'd be there for them in that sense too.)

Edited September 17, 2022 by bolt.

[Carrie12345]

My goal is for my kids to be prepared for college level work. Period.

My preference is a community college start. 

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, WTM said:

I have one who has the potential to be highly competitive for selective schools. And we live in an area where there is very high pressure to get into good universities.

There is crazy high pressure to get into UCB or UCLA here. The parents are more disappointed than the kids mostly.  DS16 wants to go the transfer route so he is not applying as a freshman this year. However, I know a few public school seniors hiring college consultants for applying to UCs which was not as common few years ago. 
DS17 is applying as transfer to the nearby private university and reactions have range from that’s expensive (as in you aren’t poor) from acquaintances to that’s a good deal since he would be commuting. 
 

My husband of course wants our kids to get into UCB or UCLA because that’s the cheapest option for a high ranking school. Our cheapest high ranking private is Stanford. However, DS17 was rejected from the UCs and DS16 is my slow kid. DS16 getting an associate degree requires a lot more effort than DS17 ever needed to put in.  Both kids want to go into tech and honestly they would do well once they are in the workforce and can find their niche. The workforce does require decent writing but doesn’t require you to be getting As for the general education requirements.

My goals is for them to go as far as they can and want to go before working. My husband worked after his bachelors and realize he didn’t like his work and was stuck without further studies so went back for his PhD. My husband hopes not to retire before 65 so there is no rush for kids to join the workforce after their bachelors. DS17 is thinking of a PhD, DS16 is undecided. 

[gardenmom5]

Kids aren't one size fits all - and I do think adjustments should be made so the college experience will fit the kid.  I didn't tell me children in what they should major.  (though I did keep asking 1dd what she was going to do with a classics degree. - she ended up in computers.)

two of mine did academically intense programs and went to competitive private uni for undergrad.   Both are doing well in their fields.  both did have opportunities there they wouldn't have received at a good state school or less competitive private school.  However - those weren't "make or break" opportunities.   

1ds did ginormous state school.  Fortunately - the ONLY school between us and CA, CO, and MI that offered his degree (public or private) is local to us. Because he decided he wanted to do it after he'd been out of school for a few years - he did his first two years at the CC/four-year.  he had contact with the students at the major state uni those two years. In his experience, they were generally kids who were out of their house for the first time and were very excited about playing. The students in his study groups at the cc/4yr, were a little older and more interested in getting their academic work done so they could get a job to pay for their life.

2ds also did his first two years at the CC/4yr.  And he had teachers with real world experience he never would have gotten at the major uni.  Those who had retired at the top of their field and were teaching a class or two as something meaningful to do.  Including the JD teaching his business law classes who had been part of the legal team taking major corporation public.  And the retired CFO who the Uni wasn't interested in because he didn't have a doc.  

[StillStanding]

As a homeschool mom I always felt that my job was to prepare my children to go to college. Academically, they had some say in high school, in what to study (not everyone wanted Calculus for example), and I let them choose history, literature, extra science-or not- based on interest. They choose extra curriculars and where to volunteer, but I required them to do both because I knew it was important to be competitive if they wanted to go college and receive scholarships. All three did very well on their ACT test and received good scholarships. The choice of going to college was up to them, but I wanted them to be well prepared if they decided they wanted to go. All three did. Each chose very different Universities-- One highly regarded and selective here in the south-- which  helped her get a job with the hospital with the same name as a Psychiatrics Nurse Practitioner, one is graduating this year from a very small Christian University with a double major in Chemistry /Physics with the intention of doing some kind of master next (she is still narrowing it down), and my youngest just started sophomore year in Architecture school in our big flagship university. Both my husband and I have college degrees (and up) but we both choose what I call "serving" careers. I was a teacher and my DH managed a Christian Retreat and Summer Camp for twenty years (we are both retired now, although we continue to volunteer in our community). I want my children to be happy and  if they had wanted to go another route we would have supported that too.

Edited September 17, 2022 by StillStanding

[chiguirre]

I put a lot of emphasis on college planning because our state flagship is extremely competitive to get into. Dd was a National Hispanic Scholar, finished her AA during high school and had a good mix of extracurriculars so she was on track. But, her heart just wasn't in it. This was a shock for dh and me, but we got over it (it took a while and involved much gnashing of teeth for dh, but we sucked it up and signed the permission for her to enlist).

She really wanted to be a sailor so she joined the Navy. It's worked out fine for her. She's an IT so she's building a solid resume for civilian jobs. She's been on her ship for 4 months and she's already visited 5 countries and sailed through the Strait of Malacca twice. Next up she'll get to sail the Eastern Pacific and spend a year in California. She's managed to save up an astonishing amount of money because, although military salaries are low, they provide room and board tax free (either by living in the barracks or by getting allowances for housing and sustenance). Her only bills are her cell phone and car insurance. At 19, she's already got a Roth IRA and TSP account. She is planning to apply for an online BS in CompSci as soon as she finishes up earning the Sec+ cert that she'll need to be eligible for contracting jobs when she finishes her Navy enlistment. All in all, it turned out to be a good path for her. 

So, now instead of a UT window sticker, I've got a Navy yard flag. It wasn't what I envisioned for dd, but it was what she wanted for herself and it's turned out alright. 

[BlsdMama]

So, context: My paternal grandma got her Bachelors around 38 and taught elementary school.  In this day and age, I suspect she would have had 2 kids and a Masters at a minimum.  Lucky for me, she had 11. 😉 So out of my grandparents and their (combined) 22 children, only 1 received a 4 year degree.
So academic push was not how I was raised - my parents are very financially well off, but my Dad didn't graduate high school and my mom graduated high school but was not academic, both are very intelligent.
My husband's family - his mom has a one year certificate for office administration and his dad was a line man and has taken various classes.  They are the highest educated in their immediate families (12 kids & 6 kids.)  Among our immediate siblings, his have a 1 year design certificate and a 2 year AS.  Mine have neither been educated in college, though my sister became an insurance agent and later a partner in her company.  We're from the Midwest and it is markedly different from the NE or the West coast.  I have a Bachelors (earned as a 40 something) and had ALS not interfered, I'd be pursuing my Masters currently.  DH initially got a certificate in drafting, finished his AS, then decided to pursue a 4 year degree, completed between DD1 and DS2.  When he was in the Army, he finished a Masters in two areas of management from Embry Riddle and his MBA.  He later finished a Masters in Logistics and Supply Chain Management.  It's important to supply context because for US, just expecting our kids to finish four year degrees seems a little "extra" for our families.  When my daughter finished her Bachelor's, my SIL remarked, "Now you won't just waste it on staying home, right?"

So families are drastically different.
DD 26 finished her Bachelors (state flagship) and will, at some point, complete a Masters, but I would not be surprised if she eventually pursued a PhD post baby/littles stage.
DS 23 is a super senior (first enrolled in engineering) now finishing his Bachelors (state flagship) - Poli Sci / Pre Law and is hopeful Army will offset the costs of law school.  He is ROTC and both exceptionally bright and sidetracked.  His adoration of mock trial definitely hurt his GPA and I wonder if he'll qualify for FELP after a couple years in?
DD 20 dropped school before finishing her RN.  She says Covid burned her out of medical care, but may go back later. I'd be shocked if she didn't.
DD 18 is currently a sophomore in small state school for TESOL.  I think she's in the wrong major (as does her Biology prof., but I digress.) I don't know if she'll get her Masters.  She is very academic but not ambitious, so it's a curiousity. She has excellent grades but really has no interest beyond going to Asia.  I can't picture her teaching? But she has proven again and again that she will push herself beyond her comfort zone.
DS 17 - certificate in welding will be complete in December (significant learning hurdles with severe to profound dyslexia and working memory) He loves the program and finds it satisfying.
DD16 is very academic - we're optimistic she'll attain a NMSQT qualifying score this October. Regardless, I actually think she'll go to the U of Iowa as well.  She plans either Civ Eng. (she has a high school internship at a civ eng firm starting next week) or will go pre-law. I'd be flabbergasted if she didn't pursue graduate school.
DD14 is also quite academically gifted but has been interested in Criminal Justice the last couple of years.   I expect she'll pursue at least a Bachelors.

The others are still so little.  Don't take this the wrong way, but the question alone, "What are *your* goals for *your* child?" rubs me wrong.  I think maybe because it's a common question and because your kids aren't adults yet, and because our society tends to give "ownership" to parents either long after it's appropriate (or alternatively, alleviate parentship far too young) that this question even exists.  I think it is more proper to say, "In what ways are you preparing your kids to pursue *their* future goals and endeavors?

To that end, I would answer it is my responsibility to offer a wide education with deep possibilities.  My job is to lay a solid educational foundation that doesn't close doors they might be knocking at in their future. 😉
 

Edited September 17, 2022 by BlsdMama

[Beth S]

Our goal was for the kids to be academically ready for the college path of their chosing, and they each ended up qualifying for full academic scholarships, based on their ACT scores.

We would not have paid $$ for them to attend a prestigious college, but two of the kids went to out-of-state public universities on full tuition scholarships (Roll Tide).    One child has his Master's in Mech Engineering.

We realized that our children (raised in the backyard, in a rural setting) would not have a 3 page resume of extra curricular activities. 
We didn't want to compromise our family life to make a beefy college application.
But I do admire those who naturally have a vision for some substantial community service opportunity, etc.

Honestly, three of our five kids graduated from a nearby college, and all three were extremely well prepared for their nursing and engineering careers.  No regrets!

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Beth S

[Laura Corin]

We were keen that the kids had good academic results. Sports etc. are rarely important for university entrance in the UK, so they just pursued whatever they fancied.  Only in more vocational fields like medicine do extracurricular experiences matter.

[73349]

I want to give my kid options so he can choose something that's a good fit for him. I've said for years that if he wants to aim for a top tier school, we'll work toward that, and if he wants to go the local CC and learn a trade, I'll help him with that.

Right now it's looking like we'll do 5 years of high school, with some CC in the last couple years, with the hope he'll be admitted to a nearby state U. It's fairly competitive and a good school, has some programs where he may find a good fit, and would allow him to commute from home, saving quite a bit of money and making it easier to accommodate a disability. We're going to have to look at some back-up options as well.

Nobody in our family considers sports as a college admissions issue--We figure you'd have to be wildly good at (and therefore spend tons of time on, so you'd want to really enjoy) a sport that a lot of schools have teams for, but is not one of the sports considered most important (which are ridiculously competitive, like basketball). I'm trying to help DS live in a way that makes life now good, not just a multi-year sacrifice for the future.

Edited September 17, 2022 by 73349

[Murphy101]

I tell my kids literally daily. I’m here to help them help themselves and to have the freedom to make choices.

I won’t lose sleep if they don’t go to college at all but I want them to have been educated as best I could so they have that choice.

I’m not willing to do any extracurriculars based on that though.

Most of life and most of the most important things to us is going to be spent doing things that do not ever pay off and we get nothing out of beyond personal satisfaction.

And that’s a good thing I think people should keep in mind daily when orienting their life towards anything.

[Pawz4me]

52 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I don't, by habit, set 'goals' for other people. I set goals for how well I want to serve or provide for my kids, but I don't go so far as to have a 'goal' for what they are going to do in response to the the things I do for them.

 

Same.

My only goal was to make sure they were well prepared for whatever college they decided suited them, if they chose to go that route. My goals for preparing them included academics, but also being ready to be independent and able to take care of themselves (life skills, financial literacy, etc). We also made it clear that college wasn't the end-all-be-all, that as long as they were productive and able to support themselves it was all good with us. In short, my goal was to prepare them for life after high school. Beyond that . . it wasn't up to me to have goals for them.

[Jenny in Florida]

I had no "goals" for my kids in terms of college, other than to make sure I had done my best to prep and support them in getting where they wanted/needed to go. Early on in the homeschooling and parenting thing, my husband and I agreed that we were going to strongly encourage our kids to get some kind of post-secondary training/education/credential. College would be the default, but we were open to lots of other possibilities. And we would pay for that first degree/credential to the best of our ability.

Look, I'm an academic nerd and a bit of snob by nature, so would I have enjoyed a little shiver of self-satisfaction if one or both of my kids had gone to an "elite" college? I'm honest enough to admit the answer to that is yes. I would have been a little envious of them having the experience I didn't get, but I would have been happy for them if they were happy about it.

However, I'm also a big reader and researcher, and I know that "fit" matters more than prestige when it comes to the "right" college for any student. Although some follow-up studies have exposed some nuances not prominent in the original study, I was also greatly impressed years ago by research that suggested students who were admitted to elite/highly competitive colleges but chose to go to school elsewhere ended up doing as well in their lives based on many measures in the years after graduation. Essentially, the message the researchers took away was that the capabilities, focus and motivation of individual students mattered more than the name of the college on their degree. (There are exceptions for students who plan to go into certain highly competitive careers or to apply to certain graduate programs.) 

The most important thing for me, though, was that these were not my goals to set. My role was to support my kids in doing what they wanted/needed to do.

[Terabith]

I want my kids to have the option to go to college.  I think having a college degree opens doors and is a convenient thing to have, and I think both of my kids will be happier with jobs that require degrees.  

We care zero about status. I care about "good fit," and being able to have as little debt as possible.  It turned out for my oldest that a tiny private college was definitely the most affordable option, which is good.  I don't think either would do well at a large public.  Nothing against them in terms of status at all, but both of my kids do a lot better in smaller, more personalized institutions.  

[catz]

I have lots of feelings about this.  Please don't quote me directly.  I am usually light on revealing personal info all at once here but may get a little heavier and want to delete later.  I have 2 BS degrees from a local well-regarded state flagship.  I graduated college without debt.  As did my husband (he has an undergrad and a masters he got while he was working as a new grad).  I will also say, both my spouse and I are first generation college students.  My dad did earn a degree, but later in life as a working adult - many schools will still consider that first gen because he wasn't a supported traditional student.  My grandmothers didn't graduate high school.  All 4 of my husband's grandparents were immigrants.  My oldest is a college senior doing 2 rigorous majors, my youngest is a high school senior applying to colleges right now.

First of all, it was clear to me a college prep path was the right path for my 2 kids pretty early.  My oldest went to K and 1st grade, was reading like Harry Potter, etc and hit the ceiling of the district's GT screening path.  Full GT testing here is like 2-3K, so we never did that but he does have scores and indications of being profoundly gifted.  For a while I thought my younger kid was more NT, but now it is clear she is also at least highly gifted but she had some sensory struggles and anxiety and desire to just be DIFFERENT than the older sibling.  My oldest had some too, both really benefitted from homeschooling and a regular length childhood.  We also live in an urban metro where I am surrounded by parents with the oh-my-precious-couldn't-possibly-attend-a public-college, kids that are excited about the free programs at our community colleges, high stat kids at the state flagship, kids that will never ever attend college etc.  In activities, my kids are most exposed to many of those wealthy, private school types.  

I also want to add as an aside it is obvious to me now both my grandmothers who didn't have the opportunity to graduate high school were academically gifted.  They were both nerdy, quirky, life long learners.  I think for the ruling class the assumption is well college isn't for THOSE PEOPLE.  Well, there are people who get degrees who would have been better off on a different path and those who never see the inside of a college who could have blossomed.

I also want to say that we are upper middle class.  What this means for us is that every need only private school in the country will calculate we should be able to pay a lot more than we can remotely afford and that is according to an independant financial advisor.  My husband's income is uneven and involves bonuses sometimes and is significantly different than it was like 10 years ago.  The number is over half of our take home lolol.  We live in a relatively HCOL area. I don't want to get too wordy here but going into a college search we were searching with intent and trying to decide both what we could pay and what would be worth more for an undergrad degree.  I had a very limited choice of colleges as did my husband, I did not college search so I was excited to visit a variety of colleges, peek in the corners, inquisition those in admissions and students and be super nosy.  The calculators are super simple and don't work for every family/circumstance.  We live in a 3 bedroom 2000 sq ft house that needs work and I drive a Kia and had our kids a little older.  We really can't afford the same as the Trump family.

I will also say our state has a free dual enrollment program.  Both my kids started taking classes at public community colleges.  Because we're in a decent sized metro, the faculty jobs are very competitive.  Both my kids have had teachers at the CC that are also adjunct profs at schools that are priced over 65K a year.  I will say the one my daughter currently is at is ranked #2 in the country for CC's and outcomes.  A first gen student from there just transferred directly to a top 10 (was highlighted in their newsletter recently).  

I also want to say we live in a generally upper middle class urban neighborhood (it is dotted with student and lower income housing).  We have friends in the neighborhood who went to directional state schools.  We have friends in the neighborhood that went to top 20 privates.  I've seen very similar on paper kids go to top 20 schools and flagships and community colleges.  My husband has these flagship degrees and has a corporate title these days and has subordinates that went to some top 10-20 schools.  One of our local friends is a prof and did Bach, Mast, PhD at 3 top 20 institutions.  Her oldest who is planning grad school is at the same public as my kid. 

So we visited oh so many colleges - at least 25 in person in very hands on ways.  We visited directional publics, flagship schools, small LAC, several on the CTCL list https://ctcl.org/, several top 20's.  The other thing is my oldest had stats for any college but was interested in a double major (music + STEM).  Music admissions is very hands on and often involves sample lessons, sitting in on ensembles, etc.  One thing I quickly discovered is faculty is pretty amazing and over qualified everywhere.  Sometimes a lower regarded school near a metro might have better faculty than something out in the middle of nowhere that makes a lot of lists.  Some of the WORST recordings and music performances I saw during the process were out of the most expensive and competitive private school.  He did not apply to any need only schools, but some top schools have some scholarship funding through the music department and he did apply to a couple of those.  During the process my kid had a two music professors at 2 top 20's directly say to him basically "listen, you are fantastic, but you will have a more affordable and personalized undergrad experience elsewhere.  We don't have funding for scholarships for your thing this year. Please consider us for grad school."  I really got the sense that music departments were balancing their students that were going to be their top talent and qualify for scholarships vs. who they think will actually be able to pay their EFC and attend.  When I really started looking under the hood the biggest differences, I found at these schools was in the wealth and number of people who apply.  There were individual things we like about programs and individual teachers, but they were honestly all fantastic.

My oldest ended up at public flagship for 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the fancy private schools he was accepted at and significantly less than the CTCL types of schools he got into as well.  Because he is in their music department and got a lot of personal attention from that department, it's like he has a built in mentor.  I have to say, I have listened to people look sad about these options for their kids for years but I have been thrilled with the education and opportunities he has gotten here.  To be fair, it is ranked in the top 10 of publics right now.  But given the one that is closest to us is in the top 25, the biggest difference between the two is that that top 10 one is seeing more applications and interest because it is making more lists.  It's like those stats become self fulfilling.  I do think students do need to be a little more mature and self-motivated to be successful at a larger school.  But being part of a small school in a bigger school in a decent sized city has been GREAT for this kid.  Anyway, a lot of people who look down on flagship options don't have a kid who attended one and don't have experience with it.  It's obviously served my husband and I very well.  I have been able to mostly take contract work dueto our path.

When you look at stats for a school like graduation #s keep in mind the most common reason students leave school is money.  Many public options have more lower income students.  The New York Times has a database of this data that is easy to look up.  
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/brown-university

vs. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/university-of-nebraska

So when you are thinking about comparing schools, these are good numbers to keep in mind.  The average income of a student at my son's top 10 flagship is under 100k a year.  Need blind is a bit of a hoax.  Admissions offices know a lot about you.  They know how to skew their admissions to the right income level. 

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/5/1/18311548/college-admissions-secrets-myths

At the end of the day, I think finding an AFFORDABLE path for an undergrad degree that ticks the boxes where your child can be successful is not hard as the hand wringing prestige focused wealthy like to pretend.  I am super happy and grateful my kids can graduate debt free from very high quality schools.  I have gotten pretty good at diverting the conversations that assume we are trying for top of the line schools.  I would not be tolerating anyone putting down public colleges, etc in front of my kids and I would intentionally be exposing my kids to a range of possibilities if college is a path you think they are on.  I've read more than one interview with a prof at a top 20 school saying the were happy to send their student to a CTCL LAC for an undergrad degree.  MANY good options out there.  

Sorry for the book.

Edited September 17, 2022 by catz

[teachermom2834]

@catz great post

[Harriet Vane]

Have not read the thread, but will share my opinion and experience.

On both mine and dh's side, we have numerous close relatives in the trades. We do not believe everyone needs to go to college. Having said that, our kids were both academic go-getters and it was the obvious choice for both of them. Some kids we cared for in our home formerly have been a mixed bag. Two have done spectacularly well in college. One is currently happily engaged in cosmetology school and it's a great fit. One is unsure of his path and currently in community college, and one is seriously considering certifying to do massage. 

I believe exposure to many college campuses helps kids wrap their heads around what setting they want to engage in down the road. With that in mind, my kids visited many campuses, big and small, from elite schools to flagship schools to all the tiers below. We also did interviews at those various places and tried to spend a night in a dorm with whoever I could find through friends or friends-of-friends. Along the same lines, when one of the other kids mentioned above was trying to decide their path, I brought them to a salon academy to look it over and talk to the director. My two kids chose differently than I anticipated, and it's the direct result of their seeing lots of options. My dd is more introverted, so I made the mistake of thinking she would want a small campus. In fact, having been raised in a bustling, huge metropolis, she felt most at home on a busy, huge, city-like campus. My son is extremely extroverted, but he preferred a quieter, smaller campus. Lots of friends there without the congestion. Looking at many different options enabled him to choose a program that is extremely well-regarded on a non-flagship campus. The school's status as non-flagship is immaterial because his specific program is a known strong and well-respected one within the field he is pursuing. He was able to score excellent internships and has already received job offers. I honestly don't think an elite school would serve him any better than the program he chose. 

I do not believe in making every little thing about what will give an edge in the college game. Colleges are so very, very glutted with applications that the distinctions between qualified candidates are both minute and artificial. It really is almost arbitrary at this point. Susan Wise Bauer has written about this as have many other sources.

What will make kids happiest as adults? At least one metric is being able to spend their 40-60 work hours each week doing something that is genuinely interesting to them. The way to figure that out is to try various activities and stick with the ones that are most enjoyable and most interesting. Choices for sports involvement or music or anything else should be driven by the kid's talents and interests. Not by some vague "colleges-will-like-this" metric. There are valid, high-quality school and career paths for virtually any talent/interest/aspiration. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

My DS12 has his heart set on Cornell right now.  He’s in seventh grade but his grade point average is high—however, he’s in a special needs school.  His academic work is not modified and all at grade level, but that may hurt him.  If his heart is still set on someplace like Cornell in two years I may homeschool high school for him.  He is acquaintances with two of Cornell’s history faculty who love talking about ancient history with a bright and obsessed seventh grader, so I really don’t know.

DD10 has wanted to be a teacher since she could talk.  She wants to go to a Christian college, and I doubt that will change either.  My alma mater has reduced tuition to 2001 levels, and it’s possibly something we could afford if it’s still low tuition, but I want to encourage her to reduce loans because teaching is not well paid.

my youngest’s goals will likely be independent living.

I am not very interested in the college race.  Neither will my kids, especially DS12 who is autistic and not interested in extracurriculars.  DH has an associate’s; I have a master’s; neither of us work in a job that requires a college degree.  Education is hugely important to me, but it comes down to are you going to college for education or for credits-degree-job?  If it’s education, go where you can get the best one.  If it’s a job, go where you can get the degree for the least amount of money.

 

[Jaybee]

When I was considering my own path, my mom told me that I did not have to go to college if I did not want to, but I did have to have some kind of training to prepare me to take care of myself financially. I thought that was good, balanced advice, and that was what we told our children, as well. Our environment has been rather academic and one where nearly all their friends (and their parents) have gone to college/university, and we wanted them to be prepared for that. (Dh and I both have a master's degree.) However, our environment has also been mostly that the really high ranking universities were out of reach financially, and also not high priority. There were plenty of good universities within reach that would work just fine.

I tried to give my kids a good solid education academically, and prepare them for independence with other skill sets. Extracurriculars, etc., were chosen by them according to their interests. I think childhood/adolescence is the time to explore and not be locked in to a rigid plan. However are you going to learn what you truly enjoy and love if you can't experiment some? And why so much pressure so young? A person who has time and opportunity to pursue their passions (and find out what they are!) is likely to do well, whether they get into the "best" schools or not. Also, some people shrivel up under pressure, yet flourish if there are "lower" expectations with multiple opportunities available. I went to a not-so-highly-rated university, yet had friends who attended there who went to work at NASA, became district judges, etc. Personally, I ended up with lots of extra credits because I wasn't sure what to major in, so tried a couple of different routes, as well as that I took quite a few courses just because they looked interesting to me. That probably wouldn't have happened in a high-ranking school, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

As far as my own kids, four of them went to the state flagship. They are all doing well. One also got her master's from the flagship. One went to an Ivy League for her master's. Dil got her PhD from flagship. We moved, or the fifth probably would also have gone to the state school, but instead, he ended up in a very small liberal arts school that happened to offer his major (not common), and he graduates soon. The last one is still undecided about his path. He is interested in a trade, but also seems a bit stuck at the moment. We'll see what happens.

Due to scholarships, grants, work, etc., our five oldest graduated/will graduate from college debt-free, which is huge huge huge. We could not afford to help them a whole lot, and that wouldn't have happened if they had gone to a high-ranking private school or out-of-state school. Dd who went to the Ivy League does have some student debt for her master's, but has a good job that should allow her to pay it off in a reasonable time period.

Our family tends to be a family of life-long learners. Most of us are curious and interested. I expect there will be other degrees that will be added on, just because most of us love academic environments and learning. I'd probably get another one myself, if it made sense financially. A person who loves to learn will generally do well wherever they go to college, because they make the most of the opportunities. An advantage of state schools is that usually they are large enough to offer a variety of fields of study. So if your student decides they need to redirect, they can do so without having to transfer. But my home state also has several smaller state schools if someone doesn't want to go to the big schools.

If a person really wants to go to a more exclusive school, and it really will be to their advantage, that's fine and go for it! My dd's interest for her very specific master's was only offered at 4-5 universities in the country, and that school was also near enough for her to commute and keep working her job part-time. However, I don't have a lot of patience for university snobbery in and of itself. There can be lots of paths to success.

[Harriet Vane]

@catz Wise words. Our life experience is similar. Thanks for sharing.

[MEmama]

College was always expected for DS, but had he been a different person with different goals we would have easily been able to let him find his own path. He was the one who completely drove the college criteria and search; it was an all consuming process for him and provided a lot of growth while determining what was truly important to him. He created expansive, detailed spreadsheets beginning in sophomore year, but in reality he had talked about further education his entire life beginning at age 5 when his dream was to attend MIT (we didn’t live in New England at the time and I'm not sure how he ever became of aware of it). 
 

He was very competitive in his sport and had several colleges (including his top US school) want him on their team. We didn’t care one way or the other, though during the application process we did encourage him to reach out to coaches in order to keep the door open should he choose to pursue it. I think it was a confidence booster to know he had the opportunity (we had never prioritized his sport as a way to get into college) though in the end he decided to let it go. We would never want him to feel that he had to continue simply because he once enjoyed it, and I’m grateful he took that to heart.

He did have his sights on fairly prestigious schools, but we didn’t go out of our way to pad his application despite the pressure to do so. We figure jumping through hoops just to gain acceptance likely means the school isn’t a good fit and isn’t worth playing the game. It was a long, intense process but in the end he found a terrific fit for himself.
 

 

[athena1277]

From the beginning I have homeschooled with the plan to give my kids the education they need to do well in college.  I hope that they will all go to college and get at least a 4 yr degree.  Oldest dd is in her second year of college with a full tuition scholarship.  She is thriving there.  Ds is 15.  He currently doesn’t see the point of high school or college.  He’s very good at what he’s interested in (computer/tech stuff) and I have to push a bit to get him through other high school requirements.  I am trying to prepare him for college or entering the workforce after high school.    He has really made me rethink what I first wanted for my kids post high school.  I’m still going to make sure he gets what he needs for college, either at 18 or later in life.  Little dd is 6yo.  She’s already challenging the plans I had for her.  We’ll see what that brings later on.

[BusyMom5]

My kids do not have to go to college, but I do want them to have a realistic plan to be self-supporting by 5 years after graduation.   That means the kid who wants to be an author will be going to school for a more practical degree, and take extra writing practice for fun.  The kid who wants to be a YT star is encouraged to keep filming, editing, and creating while also getting a degree for a job that will pay the bills.  I point out that lots of authors and stars do have degrees in other areas!  

If my kids homeschool high school (and so far 4 have), then I want them to get at least as Associates degree, most of it can easily be earned while in high school.  

I do not get the fancy, competitive school for 100K+ thing.  I do not understand pushing kids beyond their natural ability.  I do have kids who are bright and test well, but we still don't apply to those crazy competitive colleges.  My 2 oldest will be at state schools.  

[Clemsondana]

Since spouse and i both have PhDs, people usually expect that we'd be pushing all sorts of academics.  But, our goals are that our kids are able to build a decent life - reasonably happy, self-sustaining, good citizens, etc.  We want them to be prepared for that, so they need a good high school education so that they have options when they graduate.  But, we've never planned things around getting into competitive colleges.  And, with my older currently a junior, I'm really glad that we haven't. 

Kid has the scores and some awards that might give them a shot at highly selective schools.  When asked about colleges, though, kid had a clear idea of what they wanted - school size, major, region of the country, city/rural, etc.  And, kid doens't want to go anywhere that is so competitive that people will be snobby about getting in.  So, kid is looking at a handful of schools, with in-state State U and State Tech as backups with, as best we can tell, guaranteed admimssion based on test scores.  Kid has preferences, but is OK with any of them and is completely uninterested in changing life now for what a college might or might not want in the future.  We did decide to do a 3rd year of language in high school, so kid is taking Latin 5 based on some colleges wanting it, but that's about it.  Meanwhile,  we have chosen classes based on kid's interests and kid has taken a rigorous path academcially, by choice.  Kid has played the two sports that they liked, and dropped one after freshman year with no complaints from us.  Kid does academic team competitions because it's fun and squeezes in some scouts for variety.  Kid will get in where they get in, and will be fine.

We may go down a completely different path with younger, who starts high school next year. While equally academically capable, kid hates school.  Things may change, but we have explored things like finishing an associates in high school in something like early childhood ed or radiology tech so that kid can get on with life after school.  Or kid may DE a lot in high school so that a 4-year degree will be earned more quickly.  We aren't pushing any of this, but I'm trying to educate myself so that I can help kid explore options.  

It's actually kind of funny, because my roommates my senior year of college were 2 other girls who also went on to earn STEM PhDs, and we all teach in various capacities.  Between us we have 7 kids, and none of them are interested in highly competitive schools and only 1 of them is likely to pursue post-bachelors education.  One has a welding certificate.   We've all just encouraged the kids to do their thing, whether it's sports or art or volunteering or working and then assume that they'll find a good fit based on the 'real them', not the 'did stuff for a resume' them. 

[Faith-manor]

All four of my kids were admitted UMichigan which is always considered a top school. Two attended; two felt it was not a good fit for them and went to lesser ranked universities. Here is my take. My kids who went to the two, smaller, lesser ranked universities have actually had a BETTER education and by a wide margin. The lower ranked smaller schools cared a lot more about the students, and with small student to professor ratios, they were always able to talk to professors, get questions answered, get help in a timely manner. UMich was a dog eat dog world with a survival of the fittest mentality and not only do my two who attended and graduated from it feel that it was nothing but four years of ridiculous and unnecessary stress, it wasn't worth the higher price tag that they and we shared. Of course others may have different experiences.

As for US News rankings, they are literally crap. They consistently under rank Michigan Tech and NMU lower than some universities because their four-year graduation rate is lower. But the reason it is lower is because both schools have numerous disciplines in which they offer the five year honors program. Students graduate in five and have both their bachelor's and master's degrees, and scholarships and financial aid are extended through the 5th year. A ton of students take that option since both schools, and especially at Michigan Tech. On top of which, the top schools have been cheating and lying about the data they report for years. So of all this ranking systems for colleges, US News and World Report is probably the most unreliable one.

I think that fit, finances, what works best for each student is way more important than ranking, and I am not a fan of putting undo pressure on kids to get into tippy top schools. If that is goal, it needs to be their goal alone, and not something pressed upon them. 

When it comes to engineering, there is not that much difference between Georgia Tech and an average state school in terms of education. This is because, like medical fields, there are public safety issues so ABET certification has to be maintained, and it is very, strictly controlled. Ask to the see the school's ABET cert. If they are on probation, that means they are in danger of losing their department because of egregious violations. If they have a 2 year cert, that means they are okay, but still need to improve some of their coursework or have more full time faculty, not so many adjuncts, or improve the quality of teaching, etc. If they have a four year, that is very good. If they have a six year, that is outstanding, and the best they can get. Northern Michigan University achieved the six year in 2017 and their professors were invited to be on the advisory board that works with schools have been cited for violations. Don't believe the rankinga. Talk to students and professors in the discipline your student is interested in, and look at reviews by other parents and see if you identify patterns that could be concerning.

[Dmmetler]

For L, college has been in the cards since pretty early on, but the goal has never been the best on paper college, but the best fit. That meant the community college because it was what was accessible when L needed college classes but wasn't ready to live away from home yet, and now a small LAC that actually is really high on a lot of US News ratings, but which we didn't know was until long after application and acceptance (I also didn't know it was a CTCL until after L was accepted...)

 

For S, the goal was to get through high school and ideally into a job that would work long term. So far, that has not involved college beyond a few classes. I'd still like to see her go back and get either an AS or professional certificate in something that is less physically strenuous than teaching swimming.

M was on a college bound path, but medical issues have derailed that a bit. The current expectation now is that she'll likely be able to do part time college, but may not be able to handle a full time schedule,or if she does, it will be with carefully balancing classes. We're also looking seriously at career paths which might be amenable to flexible hours, possibly working at home, to meet her needs, which is a real change from a year ago.

C isn't to high school yet. He wants to be an engineer, so that means we need to make sure he's ready for it. We're looking more at affordability than prestige, and are focusing on academic requirements, not extracurriculars. 

[regentrude]

We are an academically driven family and educated our kids so that they would  be prepared for admission and success at a rigorous college education. 

DD is profoundly gifted (which was obvious at a very young age) and very driven. She thrived at a highly selective college that is known for its academic demands. She needed that kind of school.

Ds, equally smart but less ambitious,  discovered his academic drive later. He chose his college for his initial degree program but switched majors; while that uni wasn't the best for that subject,  he took advantage of all opportunities there and got into a very strong graduate school.

At no point ever did the college goal affect their extracurriculars. They picked whatever sport was their passion and engaged in it to whatever degree they wanted. 

Tailoring a kid's entire life to the possibility of maybe being admitted as an athlete? No way. Their childhood is too precious,  and it's a completely unrealistic goal for most kids anyway.

Edited September 17, 2022 by regentrude

[Lori D.]

Gently, with all that your kids have been through in the past years, I can't imagine trying to pressure and herd them into "things that will look good in college" -- when they are currently in middle school, and are finally starting to heal and recover. They NEED this time to be unpressured to have the chance to heal, "normalize", and to just explore interests and enjoy life. 

2 hours ago, Baseballandhockey said:

I'm surrounded by people who put a very high priority on getting their kids into the right college, and make decisions from very early on that are based on how they are likely to impact college applications...

... [re: tickets to a college sporting event] ...My mom... telling me I should buy them at specific schools with the highest US News ranking...  Her thinking is that the more my kid is exposed to the "elite" schools the more likely he'll be motivated to go to one, and not "settle" for the flagship...

...Several family members telling me... earning a spot on the starting roster now is critical so that he's getting a lot of playing time when he's old enough to play in showcases for college coaches. 

...As my oldest tries to sort out what to choose from all the music things he wants to do...  priority should be placed on what looks good for college admissions...  

...Multiple people telling me that I made a mistake letting my kid choose soccer... [instead of] sports that have better recruiting stats.  

People bringing college placement into every conversation about schools, classes, extracurriculars, camps etc . . .  as it obviously should be the driving factor in those decisions.

I know you live in a high-pressure area where this thinking is common -- but it is NOT like that everywhere, and it is quite frankly not healthy, and it is NOT TRUE.

People who put all their eggs in one basket of "must get into one certain college" are VERY frequently disappointed, because, even if you have an academically driven student who took boatloads of AP tests, kept retesting to inch up their ACT/SAT score by one more point, and did all the "right" extracurriculars and sports -- are crushed to NOT get into the selective / competitive / elite college. These colleges have an acceptance rate of under 10% -- many under 5% -- so thousands of high-achieving students are NOT accepted, simply because when there are thousands of identically high-achieving students, only 5 out of 100 are going to get in. That's simply all the room there is.

Far better to help your students grow up to be well-rounded, interesting  people of good character who know how to think, work hard, and help others. Which is what you have been doing -- so keep up that great work!

College is just one little slice of a student's life -- your DSs will have decades of adulthood to live through that has nothing to do with college or college-prep. In fact, college is really quite an artificial environment, so gearing everything about getting into college (or the "right" college) is NOT going to be helpful for the long-term of adult life. Childhood (primary + secondary school years) should NOT be sacrificed on the altar of the parents' desperation for the kid to get into an elite college for just 4 years of their life.

Clearly, that is JMO. 😉

[Lecka]

We have a major goal that two of our kids attend college and graduate.  
 

Unless there is a better choice for them as they get older.

 

One of my kids could do a “college experience” type of program but unless it would help with employment (and it’s possible it would) I am not drawn to that for him at this time.  
 

My oldest is headed to a state flagship, and as it turns out I’m very glad we are not in a competitive state in that way.  I mean, that is what the plan is right now.  

Edited September 17, 2022 by Lecka

[Clarita]

Mine are 5 and 4, so we've got a long way to go. I think my goal for them is for them to have careers, if college gets them there then we'll put them through college. Being 100% honest if 4 years of college isn't going to get them a career I'd rather them not do it. 

My kids have it hard though because they have 2 overachieving parents, who set their life goals in high school and followed through on them. Not only all of that they were happy with those decisions. While both parents know it's possible and totally age appropriate not to be able to know your career goals by high school, being completely honest I don't know if we could understand. It's something we work on as parents.

[theelfqueen]

I am probably an outlier here. I have ZERO goals for college for my kids.

My husband went to a VERY competitive University (the United States Air Force Academy) that lacks the standard "college experience" in so many ways... and I went to community college, followed by a local, private, Jesuit University that serves adult students well, as a young, married mother.

My brothers did not go to college. My parents families are a mix of trades and college and so are thier kids...I did not grow up with "college is expected."

We are not believers in the value of "the college experience"(extended adolescent lifestyle where someone else pays for your room and board while school is your "job" and college life is paramount). Our number one educational goal for our children is to minimize debt (also, we don't pay for college) .

Those top tier schools can have advantages but you should look at how compatible those advantages are with your specific goals...Experience has not shown us a great advantage to those "rigorous, competitive" degrees outside of pursuing further degrees, and perhaps opening a first door in a company. I worked alongside a teacher who went to Yale. DH has worked with people from all kinds of backgrounds - in defense your experience far outweighs your schooling. If your long-term goals don't require expensive, elite schools; they might not be a great choice for you.

Our oldest child has a BS in Physics and a BA in Economics from a State school (not the Flagship) and will finish his MS in Human Factors Engineering in the Spring -- he is a pilot in the US Air Force. He was accepted to more competitive schools (we have a friend who was HORRIFIED when he learned which schools our son turned down LOL) but his ROTC scholarship paid for EVERYTHING at the smaller school. He graduated with less than $6K in debt and paid it off immediately and he knew that his Air Force career would be what people looked at, not his undergraduate studies.

Our middle child has an associates degree (graduated with it from High School as super senior) with certification in Television Production and works for a local television station as the morning News editor.  Not sure if any further education is in the cards at this time . Just not the right fit.

Our youngest is currently working on an associates (via a dual enrollment program which will include one post-secondary year -- same program changes in funding) with certification in Cybersecurity -- he may thereafter pursue a bachelors at the local State University, depending on the hiring climate, He has just been offered some funding that makes his original plan (getting certifications and seeking an entry level position with a large defense company that would then pay for the Bachelors) a little more nebulous.  We shall see. He has fantastic academic qualification, but he is VERY pragmatic.

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by theelfqueen

[Jaybee]

As an aside, for those of you whose kids do not enjoy school: While I was a a solid good student with all-As throughout my schooling (through high school), I didn't really enjoy school until after high school. I had glimmers of things I really enjoyed, but the overall experience was meh. The further I got in college, the more I enjoyed it, and then I loved grad school. There can be lots of elements that enter in to the enjoyment or not of school. I loved the freedom of scheduling, chosen paths, etc. There were also several offerings in my not-so-fancy state school that were not available in the larger schools my sisters attended, but were perfect for me and my interests.

To my above long post, I will add that the ds attending the small LAC has had the advantage of having a lot of one-on-one mentorship in his field with his primary professor, as well as his primary professor in his minor field. As his area is a creative one, this has been very beneficial. So I agree so much with those above who are saying that "fit" is important.

[Lecka]

Some context for us is right now, our oldest son is a Senior and none of his friends are headed to college.

 

Somehow it’s not necessarily automatic that “the default is college” for him, so I think we have done more to talk up the value and benefits.

 

He was also very interested in a vo-tech program that we were supportive of, too, but he decided he didn’t want to do it after all.  
 

I think there is a lot of context to how hands-off you can be (or should be) because if “everybody else” is talking about college or focused on college, then I think parents can balance that.  If that’s not what kids are around as much, I think parents can balance that, too.

 

It has turned out most of my son’s friends are children of people who are enlisted in the Army, and to some extent their default plan is to enlist in the Army.  I don’t know how many of them will end up enlisting, but in the past few months all of them have started to say they aren’t going to college.

 

I have no idea how much it is related to the pandemic, I think maybe it’s related a lot.  Before we moved (we moved in 2020) all these kids were connected to school and teachers and participating in extracurricular activities.  Now — not so much.

 

 

[mommyoffive]

3 hours ago, bolt. said:

I don't, by habit, set 'goals' for other people. I set goals for how well I want to serve or provide for my kids, but I don't go so far as to have a 'goal' for what they are going to do in response to the the things I do for them.

I also exist in a different context in terms of colleges and universities (in Canada) which tend to have more grades-based entry requirements for various programs. The requirements are known in advance, and if you meet the requirements, you can expect to get into that program. Sometimes there's an essay. (It's possible that some few 'very prestigious' universities somewhere in this country do personalized admissions that take sports or other activities into consideration... but if so, those really aren't on my radar enough that I'm even aware of how it would work.)

Something like sports, volunteering, or membership in various organizations might be relevant for scholarships, but not for admissions.

I have always assumed and implied that doing some form of college or university was normal and expected for them.

So, for me, all I do is make sure they are ready for high school (in my homeschooling years), help them focus on their grades during high school (as much as they let me into their worlds to actually do that), make sure they understand the relevant admissions processes (and scholarship processes), and facilitate them attending open houses or tours for schools and programs that they express an interest in.

What they do with all of that is up to them.

(If they were to ask for more help or support, I'd be there for them in that sense too.)

Very well said.  And yeah I don't set goals for other people.  I am here to support my kids and help them reach their goals.  We talk about what their goals are for the summer/month/year, but I haven't set one for them other than clean your room by the end of the day.  And that may or may not end up happening.  🙂

[prairiewindmomma]

I’ve been in groups of people where the parents are high pressure like that and it feels like those groups are really rigid and using black and white thinking. They also tend to be insecure people who are using this high pressure thing to signal that they are quality people who are/will be successful. 
 

It’s unhealthy, even for kids who have the ability to be too performers. I don’t view my kids as an extension of me nor do I accept them only if they are successful. When it’s been family that’s been that way (east coast old money), I try to shield my kids from that. 
 

 

[SHP]

I expected duel enrollment in high school at the community college and an general associates degree that is equal to the first two years at the local universities. Depending on career goals I expected further relevant educational pursuits.

Now I expect the current college student to just pick something already. I am not rich enough to be a parent of a professional student. 

I didn't push towards a specific college, but I did guide to avoid over priced money pits that weren't any better than the much much cheaper public universities. 

[Tanaqui]

What matters to me is their happiness and mental health.

That means not spending childhood in a pressure cooker, trying so hard to get into an "elite college" which, listen, CUNY is *good enough*.

[Jaybee]

Interestingly, of our five college kids, only one of them went where we thought earlier that they would go, lol. 

[Lawyer&Mom]

Honestly the default for our family is grad school.  Both my husband and I have graduate degrees and it seems likely our kids will follow that path.  But the idea that the local flagship wouldn’t be good enough for them is just silly.  I’ve meet kids from all kinds of backgrounds in grad school.  I know super ambitious kids who went to Harvard and super ambitious kids who went to their state flagships.  They all end up doing super ambitious things.  (R1 Professors, Start-up CEOs) I know smart but mellow kids who went to Yale and smart but mellow kids who went to their state flagship.  They all end up doing smart but mellow things.  (Public policy researcher, government attorney.)  People are who they are, and somehow sending my geeky introverted kid to Harvard isn’t going to make her super-ambitious.    

[Scarlett]

My kids are already grown. But I remember researching  this topic until I was bleary eyed.  It is such an elitist process.  I despise it.  
 

I encouraged my son to get enough education to be able to live a life of dignity,  I encouraged him to NOT work toward the most money but toward enough money. I think my voice was drowned out by his dads voice…..but whatever.  

Imreally hope for my son’s that thy have happiness and health,