In light of the infamous televised slap, help me with this parenting issues

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I guess I refrenced the WS situation because that(and the thread here) made me reflect on my own personal beliefs about what’s acceptable/not acceptable, and then this situation made me reflect more.

We’ve told our kids never to start a fight, but if you find yourself needing to defend yourself or someone who needs help, to do so. Then after the WS thing I thought, maybe that isn’t the right thing to teach my children, maybe I need to teach them that walking away or finding an authority figure is a better solution.

Then this happens, so I am still reflecting on what I believe.

 

DD is only suspended from the bus pending that letter. She absolutely does not want to write it and said if anyone picks on her brothers(both have special needs) she’d do it again.  I’m inclined to say ok, don’t write it.  The only reason they ride the bus is because we are new to the district and live rurally, no neighbors, and thought the bus might be a good way to meet kids who live on our road or close by.  We can actually sleep thirty minutes longer if I drive them to school and my job is happy to let me be 10-15 minutes late because I’m doing a school drop off. My SIL lives a five minute walk from the school and is happy to have them walk over after school and spend an hour with her or pick the up on bad weather days. She can’t have kids and would love that daily ritual. So not being on the bus is not at an all issue.

But. I also don’t want DD to think that she can just slap every jerk out there or defy authority.  The apology letter doesn’t sit right with me though.  So I’m torn.

I don’t know this kid and my kids don’t know his name. The school says that they can’t give me any info, which is fine.  We’ve complained enough since September that I was under the impression they’d discussed the bullying with his parents, but it’s entirely possible they haven’t.

my gut instinct? To give my daughter a high five and then drive them the rest of the year.  DD is going to private school in the fall anyway and DS6 may wind up in a homeschool hybrid due to other issues with the district not following his IEP despite my attorney’s involvement.  But I don’t want to condone slapping people either.

Follow your gut.

I will add that we teach kids things like martial arts so that when another person escalates to physical violence, we will know how to respond. Your daughter responded appropriately to someone else's physical violence. She didn't slap every jerk out there or defy authority. She intervened to prevent further harm when someone attacked her special-needs brother physically. The bully's behavior is even more egregious because it was against someone with a disability. He's lucky he got off with so little. And he should be banned from the bus.

[ktgrok]

Walking away or getting an authority IS the right thing to do. But, she couldn't walk away on a bus, and neither could your son. And the authorities had already been notified. So, that left what she did. 

[Forget-Me-Not]

Oh 🤬 no my kid would not be writing an apology letter; though I might be inclined to write it myself and go *very* passive aggressive with it: “I’m sorry my brother has not been safe and protected on the bus. I regret that Bully is still riding the bus and allowed to harm the other kids despite numerous complaints.” 
 

I’m on the side of your gut. Tell that girl you’re proud of her (and give her an extra pat on the back from me). Shes not resorting to violence at every turn. She stood up and took action on behalf of someone who was being hurt. 

[Faith-manor]

Haven't read the whole thread, but here is my take. The school failed these kids in so many ways. The bully SHOULD have been taken care of before now, and they allowed it to escalate until your disabled child was physically assaulted and could have been very hurt. The only letter of apology that needs to be written is one from the principal and superintendent to your son and daughter. Your daughter was defending an innocent child from further assault, and had she not, your son could have been badly injured by this child. I have seen adults take down a perp who was assaulting someone else, and the perp got charged by the D.A., not those defending that human. To expect children to take this sh!t is beyond reason. And she didn't hit this kid because of his words but to prevent him from committing further violence against your son.

I would literally be saying "f@ck you" to the school, and if they didn't like it, tell them you will be engaging an attorney to sue them for not doing more to protect your disabled son.

Unfreakingbelievable. So sick of schools siding with the bullies.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Faith-manor

[JustEm]

I might consider asking for a meeting with the principal and whoever else needs to be involved and sit dd down with them listening and tell her,  'under normal circumstances the correct thing to do is get ds out of danger and get an adult but sadly the adults in this situation didn't take it seriously before the bully turned violent.  And instead of focusing on the violence he inflicted they are punishing the only advocate ds had in that moment and that you are sorry that they put her in the position to be responsible for doing their job of protecting an innocent disabled student. tell her you are proud of her for protecting ds and that you will do your best to ensure she isn't put into a situation where physical defense is the only option.' Then tell the adults at the meeting that they should be ashamed of themselves for trying to force a child to apologize for them not doing their job.'

Can you tell I'm very angry on your behalf

[Katy]

Maybe it’s a Southern thing, but I would have har write a non-apology with a couched threat. 

And I would take her for ice cream and buy her a present for doing the right thing!

[itsheresomewhere]

What I did when this happened to my DS-  I took him out for a happy meal.  We would not have written an apology letter. And I may have told the school exactly what I thought about their ways ( ok I admit I did). 

 If they had force it, our letter would be along the lines of- I am sorry your parents didn’t tell you about picking on the disabled and how the siblings of the disabled don’t like it.  Never would it contain an apology for defending her brother.  

[thewellerman]

Just sayin'.

WS was wrong, but this scenario is completely different.  This is what happens when people are put in bad circumstances repeatedly.  Your kids were failed, and your dd was set up.  Someone had to do something.  I think the only reason it might not seem so clear cut is because your dd technically acted in retaliation, not defense.  We understand the intent of her response was defense, but she attacked the bully to do that.  She didn't need to pull him off and pin him to the ground to stop the assault.  She took him down and hit him after the assault on ds was over.  The reason she was justified is because the authorities didn't prevent the issue, and force needed to meet force.  Self defense in the moment is a weak explanation, but she was handling the overall problem.

I think your dd is owed an apology, and a change of circumstances.  I wouldn't punish her at all. 

 

[rebcoola]

I would not have her write the letter since you don't need the bus.  

While we always tell our kids to get help, use words etc. We have also made it clear that they are allowed to defend themselves and others against physical violence. That if it was the right thing to do at the time we would go to the mat for them. 

 

[Clemsondana]

At our martial arts school, I've heard them tell the kids that if they ever hear that a student instigates a fight, they'll be suspended from the school for weeks or months. If they are protecting themselves or somebody who needs help, they expect them to be successful. It's not as if the bully just called somebody a name and she slugged him.  He physically attacked somebody, and she had no reason to think that anybody in authority would do anything to put a stop to it.  For that matter, she had no reason to believe that the kid would stay away after pushing your son that day.  Kids can function with a system in which adults intervene to stop bullies, and they can also function in a 'take care of it yourself and don't bother adults' system (I'm not saying it's a good idea, but at least kids understand how it works).  It's completely unreasonable to expect kids to live with 'just let them do their thing - don't retaliate, and we won't intervene'.   I'd be telling my kid good job for looking out for your sibling.  We would not be writing a letter.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by Clemsondana

[NewnameC]

I have not read all the replies.

I did see that your daughter will not be allowed to ride allowed to ride bus until she writes an apology. You have so much on your plate that I would have her write an apology, so you don’t have to drive her. I would allow her to write a “sorry you caused me to …” apology. 

I was called into the principal’s office in 5th grade for my non apology letter that I wrote after my whole class was instructed to write apology letters for being loud when teacher was out of the class. I was a bookworm who had read the entire time.

[Tap]

I raised my NT kids to make choices. If you commit the offense …be willing to pay the consequences. If your ok with the consequences, then let your conscious drive your actions. If you don’t want the consequences, then don’t do the deed. 
 

It seems like your daughter processed the situation and made a choice. Let the school handle the consequences. She lost the bus privilege for a while. Consequences paid. 😀
 

Unless this becomes an issue, or you anticipate it becoming an future problem with her, I would let it go. 
 

Then I would give her a hug and thank her for putting her brother ahead of herself. Throw me in a quick, ‘we shouldn’t hit’ but hugs anyways. 🤣

[Tanaqui]

Exactly how long was this child harassing yours - a much YOUNGER child, to say nothing of the special needs - without the school kicking HIM off the bus, requiring apology letters, etc?

I wouldn't ask my kid to do a darn thing until and unless I knew the school was taking this seriously. And thus far, they haven't been.

[AnotherNewName]

Dear Bully,

I am sorry that your repeated assaults on my brother forced me to act in defense of him.  I am hopeful that you will not cause me to do so again.

Signed, 

DD9

[Clarita]

If it were me and my kids. I take my kids out for ice cream. I'd tell my daughter in this instance I side with her. As for the letter of apology I'd still make her write it. I'd phrase it to her like every action right or wrong does have a consequence. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and do it. Feel free not to make it elaborate just the minimum requirement. If I'm sorry is good enough to finish the suspension, then so be it. Or the @AnotherNewName apology would be perfect.

Next, I'd enroll my kids in martial arts so the next time the take down hopefully can be done more swiftly and more embarrassing for the other kid.

[Catwoman]

Tell the school that you are still waiting for your son to receive his letter of apology from that bully, and also remind them that you still haven’t received letters of apology from the bus driver and the school administration for not keeping your children safe.

Your dd protected her brother because the bus driver didn’t provide a safe environment for the children. She had no other option and there is no way I would do anything but defend her actions.

[Catwoman]

I have a quick question, because something is not making sense to me. If Mrs. Tiggywinkle is not allowed to know whether or not the bully was punished, shouldn’t that go both ways? If Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s DD is forced to write an apology letter to the bully, then that family will know exactly what happened to her.

The bully physically assaulted Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s ds before her dd took action, so if the school’s policy is that children write apology letters when physical altercations occur, the bully should be writing a letter to her ds — and Mrs. Tiggywinkle would have been told that her ds should expect to receive one.

Mrs. Tiggywinkle, did you actually go into the school and speak with the principal about this? If not, I would strongly suggest that you schedule a meeting as soon as possible and demand a full explanation. 

Edited to add: I hadn’t read the other replies before I posted, but it looks like several other people have the same concerns that I do. I haven’t liked all of the posts yet because I’m on my phone and I’m rushing around right now, but I see that I’m agreeing with a lot of people here! 🙂 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Catwoman
Needed to add something

[amyx4]

I've read all the responses.

The only thing I might add is that in our house when something like this has happened we trying to keep the "non-punishment" of our kiddos discreate. So, DD9 doesn't run around telling her classmates that you high-fived, bought ice cream, neglected the letter, etc. I don't need to hear from other parents, group leaders, teachers, etc who disagreed with the way I parented the situation.

We just had an incident but much, much, much, less difficult situation at at group activity. Younger kiddo used a swear word when he thought someone was being mean to older kiddo. (No violence) The adults in charge expected that younger kid would be punished at home.  I nodded to the adults in charge but didn't share how we planned to address the problem at home. (I did get the full story from both kids later on)

On the opposite side, if I had given a punishment, I still wouldn't have discussed it with people outside our home. Kids are allowed a long time to grow up with lots of room for mistakes. None of that is anyone else's business.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

45 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I have a quick question, because something is not making sense to me. If Mrs. Tiggywinkle is not allowed to know whether or not the bully was punished, shouldn’t that go both ways? If Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s DD is forced to write an apology letter to the bully, then that family will know exactly what happened to her.

The bully physically assaulted Mrs. Tiggywinkle’s ds before her dd took action, so if the school’s policy is that children write apology letters when physical altercations occur, the bully should be writing a letter to her ds — and Mrs. Tiggywinkle would have been told that her ds should expect to receive one.

Mrs. Tiggywinkle, did you actually go into the school and speak with the principal about this? If not, I would strongly suggest that you schedule a meeting as soon as possible and demand a full explanation. 

 

I would assume that if he writes a letter of apology then obviously we’d know that part. I was referencing when I specifically asked if he was also suspended from the bus. This all happened yesterday so I wouldn’t assume anything by not having received an apology letter yet and next week is spring break.

I think what they mean is that suspensions and such are confidential and they won’t share those.  In all honesty, I don’t know that I care what happens to this kid; we can easily drive our kids to school and SIL can pick them up or they can walk to her house on days I can’t pick them up from school.  So no more bus, no apology letter, and after June I don’t have to deal with the district anymore. 

DD most certainly does not see anything wrong with her actions and I don’t think I’d make her write an apology that is false anyway.  She is very much if someone is actively harming someone else, stop them by any means necessary, and her brother was being harmed.  Nothing we say is going to change her viewpoint at 9, anyway, so DH and I have decided to just skip the bus from here on out.  We aren’t going to put DS6 in harm’s way anyway, and it’s simpler to just drive both of them to school.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[MercyA]

I believe violence is almost never justified. The only time I can defend it is when it is necessary to protect oneself or someone else from an imminent physical threat. That kid was an imminent physical thread to your child. If your DD is mature enough to understand, I *might* talk to her about using the least amount of force necessary. Could she have blocked him from reaching her brother again, instead? (Although, my goodness--she should not be the one having to do that! And she was basically doing that the best way a little kid knew how to do it in the moment.) 

I wouldn't make my daughter write an apology unless *she* felt that her actions were wrong. I don't get forced apologies of any kind, and I don't think she needs to apologize to the bully, in any case.

I'd drive my kids to school from now on.

I'm so sorry your son was harassed. That is just horrible. Proud of your daughter for her courage and sense of justice.

Edited April 7, 2022 by MercyA

[Terabith]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

The punishment given out by the school is more than enough (like, literally, depending on the circumstances, I think they possibly went too far). I would definitely not punish her further.

Seconding everyone pointing out that she's a kid and we all have to have different responses for kids. 

I don't feel like I can ever celebrate solving a problem with violence, even though sometimes there's a visceral thrill there. I'd definitely be super understanding and supportive and not upset. But my approach in situations like this is to talk about other ways to handle things. And to talk about ways to see it systemically - yes, even with a 9 yo. Were there things everyone could have done to prevent it? What are good ways to handle anger in general? How can we all support your brother better? Etc. etc.

That's the part that feels like it falls down for me. Like, is this other kid writing an apology? If she had gone to the bus driver or monitor would they have done anything? Was anyone about to do anything for your ds? Because it sounds like no. And that puts your dd in a terrible position. If the adults weren't about to do something, what power did she have to help other than her fists? Adults shouldn't put kids in positions like that. Because that's an impossible situation for a kid. It encourages violence or victimization - neither of those is okay.

As for the apology... I'm neutral. My feelings on that depend on the bigger picture. I think if there were adults who could have and would have stepped in to handle it appropriately if she had gone to them - if she had recourse - AND if the other kid is being asked to do the same - that's it's appropriate, but that it would also be an appropriate place for her to express how hurt she was seeing his actions - not just the shove, but the ongoing bullying. A "I should not have attacked you and I'm sorry I hurt you. Here are things that I'm upset about..." kind of note. But if none of that is happening, then it feels really wrong to add this punishment to her. To hold her accountable when the systems around her continue to fail all the kids.

But WHAT other options did she have?  They have tried ignoring the kid.  They have repeatedly appealed to higher authorities.  The higher authorities have been ignoring this ONGOING bullying and assault of a vulnerable kid.  I genuinely don't know what else Mrs. Tiggywinkle's daughter could have done to protect her brother.  

I don't love violence, but I think Mrs. Tiggywinkle's daughter responded gloriously, and I would take her out for ice cream and tell her I was proud of her.  I would certainly refuse to have her write an apology letter, and I'd go to the school board over the issue.  

[HomeAgain]

The only letter would come from our lawyers to the school, requiring a resolution in writing to the ongoing harassment your ds has faced without adequate measures from the school to stop it.

 

I would not make my kid write any sort of apology.

[Clarita]

30 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

DD most certainly does not see anything wrong with her actions and I don’t think I’d make her write an apology that is false anyway.  She is very much if someone is actively harming someone else, stop them by any means necessary, and her brother was being harmed.  Nothing we say is going to change her viewpoint at 9, anyway, so DH and I have decided to just skip the bus from here on out.  We aren’t going to put DS6 in harm’s way anyway, and it’s simpler to just drive both of them to school.

That's probably best. I mean if she doesn't need to be on the bus again then no apology is necessary. 

 

[Elfknitter.#]

4 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

[shortened to address this part at the end]

my gut instinct? To give my daughter a high five and then drive them the rest of the year.  DD is going to private school in the fall anyway and DS6 may wind up in a homeschool hybrid due to other issues with the district not following his IEP despite my attorney’s involvement.  But I don’t want to condone slapping people either.

Go with your gut. She was defending her brother, not instigating a fight.

[Amy in NH]

He had it coming.  There's such a thing as fighting words.  I wouldn't make her apologize.

[Ceilingfan]

Don't discipline her, the school/bus has already done that. There's no need to do it twice. Have her write the letter if you want her to return to the bus. I've told the kids that they don't have to feel sorry to apologize; saying "I apologize" is a statement of fact, not an expression of sentiment or agreement that you're in the wrong. Sometimes in life you must apologize even if you're morally I'm the clear; sometimes I have to pay a speeding ticket even if everyone speeds on that highway and driving the limit is more dangerous than driving 7-10 over.

[purpleowl]

Oh, I just had a thought: use the other definition of apology - a defense, a reasoned justification. Then I think she wouldn't have a hard time writing it. 😉 

(But seriously, your plan to just ignore this particular problem and drive them instead sounds like a good one.)

[OH_Homeschooler]

How come the bully hasn't had to write an apology letter to your son?

ETA: Oops sorry, saw that this was addressed. Except, if they are protecting this bully's confidentiality then that means he's not going to be writing an apology, or he's writing one but it won't be signed? Or that if your daughter writes an apology then he won't see it, because they'd have to be protecting her as well?

I just hope whatever protections they're putting in place for the bully, they're putting in place for your DD. Because if they're not they are teaching some very bad lessons. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by OH_Homeschooler

[sassenach]

I would tell the school they could go to hell.  They can't withhold education because you won't make her apologize. You have a well documented case of the school system not protecting your 6 year old and I would spell that out to them. This isn't your fault. Your 9 year old did the right thing (yes, maybe in an immature way, but right nonetheless).

 

 

All that said, I don't really get the connection to Will Smith. The situations aren't remotely similar. I am firmly in the WS was wrong camp but that doesn't mean that protecting a younger, weaker person from violence by returning the violence is wrong. Pushing a kid over is not the same as words.

 

[fairfarmhand]

6 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Well, Anne is her favorite literary character, next to Hermione Granger. 😂
DH is inclined to not make her write the letter, and I think I agree.
It would all be lies anyway, she isn’t in the least bit sorry. 

I am so sorry that you drove me to violence with your horrible behavior meanness and bullying. I wish you had never started it.   😉
 

 

 

[Lisa]

I would be proud of her for sticking up for her brother. Its sad the school and bus company couldn't protect your son. Its sad she is the one being punished. If she has to write a letter to the kid, then that kid should write a letter of apology to your son. That other kid was the bully. Your daughter should not be punished. Its good that you will be driving your kids to school. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Lisa

[goldberry]

Just chiming in, that once hands were laid on your son, all bets were off in my opinion.  I agree that words should not be met with violence.  But once something becomes physical, you defend yourself (or someone weaker) VIGOROUSLY.  If you are worried about where this might lead with your daughter at all, just reiterate that physical contact is a line that changes the response.

Oh, and no apology.

Edited April 7, 2022 by goldberry

[Ausmumof3]

Ugh my blood is boiling! Agreeing with the non-apology apology people. Actually if it was at all possible I’d pull my kids. And burn that bridge so hard there’s no way they’d go back. But I know that’s probably not possible right now. So I’d be asking for meetings with anyone possible to try and get it fixed. I couldn’t bring myself to make my kid write that apology.

[footballmom]

You’ve gotten great responses so far.  One question I keep thinking: what contact besides the bus could this bully have with your kids outside of the bus (while at school, community functions)?  I would ask or ask through my attorney the school to document how they plan to keep your children safe while at school the bully attends.

[Melissa Louise]

No apology, imo. But I also wouldn't be celebrating. That the situation got to this point isn't something to high five. 

I don't understand how buses work there. Are they run by the school? A private company? Who is responsible for student safety on the bus? 

My thoughts are that both children  have been failed (by school/by bus co) before this incident, and that's where the attention needs to be, not on dd.

This has nothing to do with WS. 

 

 

[BlsdMama]

10 hours ago, YaelAldrich said:

I only sadded this thread because the bully sucks. Not because of your son or your daughter or your parenting. I'm not going to say more because people piled on me in the WS thread for my opinion of "deserved violence".

Exactly. 

[zimom]

I don't think I can add much more but, can I buy your daughter an ice cream?   I am so proud of her for sticking up for her brother.   As a mama to 2 with disabilities, one which has a physical disability, I have zero tolerance for bullies that pick on kids because they aren't 'perfect'.  

[KungFuPanda]

I think this is nothing at all like the WS situation.  I'd be writing a very strongly worded letter to the school, or even the media.  They are discriminating against a female student and a disabled student.  They allowed your son to be physically bullied and did nothing forcing a 9-year-old girl to handle a situation they refused to deal with.  Was she supposed to stand by and let things continue to escalate until her brother was seriously injured? They want to deal with it NOW that the bully has suffered?  He's suffered less than your son.  Why is it suddenly a problem that they are capable of responding to?

This whole thing makes me angry.  This exact scenario could have happened to my kids.  There would be no apology letter because we are not liars. Things went down the way they did because the school failed to deal with the situation.  THEY should apologize to everyone.  Had they taken you seriously in the beginning zero children would be hurt or in serious trouble.  This is when you lawyer up or go to the media because this is serious neglect on the part of the school system. Is their position that your daughter was 'supposed' to stand by and watch her brother be assaulted ? Kids with physical disabilities cannot just catch themselves like other kids can.  A fall is dangerous and scary. Your daughter defended someone who could not defend himself.  Punishing her is absolutely unacceptable.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by KungFuPanda

[HS Mom in NC]

I wouldn't allow my daughter to write an apology letter. I'd let the school know I that I expect the bully, the bus driver, and the school to them to write each of my children an apology letter.

[Red Dove]

I am so proud of your daughter. 

[SKL]

This reminds me of the following link I posted on my facebook page years ago.

Recently my kid (a 15yo 5' tall girl) has been mildly harassed at sporting events by teen boys.  I told her to respond in ways that break rules.  First without physical contact, but if it gets to the point where they touch her or she's otherwise physically compromised, then whatever it takes.

When my kid was in 3rd or 4th grade, a much bigger boy twisted her arm to the point that it was a mild injury.  She told him "if you ever try that again, I'm going to defend myself."  The teacher emailed me about the incident, and I told the teacher that if my kid ever needed to physically defend herself against this boy, I would support her, and I hope the school understands.  (It never did happen ... probably because the boy knew my kid would make him hurt.)

I don't love violence, but what's worse - a swift whack of education for a bully, or an extended period of torture for the victim?

I would not allow my child to write an apology to the bully in the OP.

https://stuffhappens.us/a-boy-at-school-snapped-her-15430/

 

[SKL]

12 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I guess I refrenced the WS situation because that(and the thread here) made me reflect on my own personal beliefs about what’s acceptable/not acceptable, and then this situation made me reflect more.

We’ve told our kids never to start a fight, but if you find yourself needing to defend yourself or someone who needs help, to do so. Then after the WS thing I thought, maybe that isn’t the right thing to teach my children, maybe I need to teach them that walking away or finding an authority figure is a better solution.

The anti-bully program at our martial arts school teaches a three-step response.

1) Tell the person to stop (at the verbal threat/intimidation stage).  If that doesn't work:

2) Tell an adult.  If that doesn't work:

3) Confidently challenge and defend.  (Don't throw the first punch, but block and hit back.  Hard.)

In the case of a weaker victim needing protection, this could be tweaked, but it seems like 1 and 2 were done and it was time for 3.  The aggressor got physical and your daughter hit back.  She didn't create the situation, she stopped it.  Good for her.

 

[SKL]

12 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Yes. He has an unsteady gait with low leg muscle tone and wears orthotics.  Even a small push could cause much more physical injury than it would to a typical almost 7 year old child. DD is fully aware of his physical limitations as we’ve talked about how we have to be careful with even fun roughhousing(my kids all like to play wrestle). That is part of why she reacted like that. Also, she has a keen sense of justice and isn’t afraid of anything. She’ll take anyone on to protect someone else.  This is my child who’s learning Russian so she can fly over and tell Putin to his face what she thinks.   So this doesn’t surprise me, but I want to handle it correctly without either condoning slapping jerks or decreasing her sense of justice.

Maybe someone needs to tell the bully's parents that they could be in for a lawsuit if their kid hurts your kid.  The school could be in for a lawsuit too.  (Not dispensing legal advice, but maybe this would shake some folks up.)

[SKL]

And another thing!  I think the school should not be allowed to suspend your daughter from the bus at all. 

I think you should demand payment for the alternative transportation you will need to provide to transport your daughter & to keep your son safe.

In the alternative, the school should provide a bus monitor to control that bully if he's still allowed on the bus.

Good thing you have an attorney meeting with them soon.  Can he add this incident to the discussion?

[Carrie12345]

10 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

Was she supposed to stand by and let things continue to escalate until her brother was seriously injured?

This.  So much this.

I’ve always told my kids, and my daughters especially, that they have the green light to use any means necessary to interrupt and escape even just a fear of physical harm. Some might find that controversial, and that’s fine. But you cannot predict where an aggressor might stop.
(We haven’t had to deal with schools or busses in 15 years or so, so we didn’t have conversations specific to that.)

No kid should go through their life with a fear of harm, and MOST DEFINITELY not a SIX-YEAR-OLD!!! The adults “in charge” allowed that fear and emboldened that jerky kid (who should receive some help for his deviance before he gets much bigger/older.)

[Faith-manor]

In terms of WS, the difference here for me is very large. WS wasn't defending anyone who was in danger nor an individual who was incapable of self defense. Jada didn't need his help for any reason, and the only "attack" was a joke at an event where stand up comics have always been mouthy and insulting, everyone knows that going in, and there is zero requirement to attend. They were grown adults. 

In the instance of these children, it was up to the grow up authority, school officials and employees, to get involved and prevent escalation in a situation in which state law requires children to attend public school if not home or privately schooled. The fact that every state has mandatory attendance laws means they are legally unresponsible for the physical safety of students. The victim is disabled making the situation even more fraught. This went beyond words, the victim was physically attacked and in danger, and another child intervened before it got a lot worse. She never would have been in the situation to do this IF the stupid school had done its job! She was making an attempt to see to it that her brother was not physically attacked again, an attack that since the bully was clearly on a path of escalation, could have been far worse next time.

If I hear/see someone being cat called by a loud mouth jerk but nothing else is happening, I am disgusted by it. But it is words, and that is something from which the victim can walk away unharmed. However, if that same jerk gets up and goes and knocks her down, then the line to physical assault has been crossed, and the possibility of serious physical danger has increased exponentially. If I have the opportunity to knock his block off, or nail him in the genitals, I will do it before she gets hurt worse. If could sit on him and keep him pinned, then heck ya, he is waiting for police to come arrest his a$$. 

The school at this time should be rolling out a red carpet for Mr. And Mrs. Tiggy, prostrating themselves, and hoping they don't get sued. 

[Katy]

I didn’t have children when I lived in your state, but I think… If you wanted them to ride the bus again You could threaten the school with a lawyer for violating your kid’s civil rights by failing to protect one disabled child and forcing another to child protect him instead of providing safe transportation in the face of known danger. And that if the bully didn’t write your daughter an apology letter you’d be seeking a restraining order to keep him from riding the bus or coming anywhere near your kids. 

And for that matter you could probably press charges against the child. No school attorney can do anything but bus the kid to a different school in that scenario. Now whether that would actually be a good idea and the administration would privately cheer you for ensuring the bully would face consequences they aren’t allowed to enforce because of the bully’s rights and would be coached by district lawyers to protect your child afterwards because you will ensure it OR whether they would somehow seek retaliation against your family in subtle ways I can’t answer. 
 

I know when DH was working in Illinois there was a case where one disabled child was a violent bully. The school administration could do nothing until multiple students and one teacher got restraining orders. The bully’s mom sued because the bully was bussed to another school and she didn’t like it. The school board said they had no choice and the judge threatened to jail the mom and put the child in a group home if she kept taking him to his old school. 

[katilac]

20 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

But my lawyer is handling most of it and that’s probably best lol.

Then I'd have my lawyer handling this, and your daughter will not be writing an apology letter and your son will be offered alternative transport. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

53 minutes ago, katilac said:

Then I'd have my lawyer handling this, and your daughter will not be writing an apology letter and your son will be offered alternative transport. 

I agree, and so does my lawyer.

We honestly have more pressing issues with this school district, such as not following my son’s IEP for bathroom breaks and my attorney is handling all of it.  I am really disappointed because we’d heard so many great things, but I only sent my kids back to public school because I was struggling deeply with Covid induced depression and suicidal ideation.  I didn’t feel it was fair to my kids at all to be stuck at home with a Mom who is struggling to get out of bed much less feed then lunch.  Things are better now, we live someplace with several co-ops and hybrids, and if we pull him to homeschool I will be okay.  I am trying not to feel guilty about sending them back, because it has just been so bad. 

[wintermom]

Sorry, I haven't read any of the thread other than the original update. But my initial reaction is:

Super typical public school reaction to blame your dd. I'd award her with a great meal or something. She was awesome! 

Girls aren't allowed to stand up to bigger bully boys to defend other boys. When they do, they are punished. I've heard this exact same scenario before. It's bs on the part of the school. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by wintermom