In light of the infamous televised slap, help me with this parenting issues

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

update: We are not making DD write an apology letter.  I can drive the kids without an issue and after June I am done with this public school district.  We also have an attorney who is handling not only this incident but other problems that have been ongoing.
 

The Will Smith thread has given me a lot of thought, and my preference is to never solve anything with violence anyway.  A lot of the “words shouldn’t be met with physical violence” comments really rang true.

And then this happened, and I don’t know how to handle it.  I know what my gut says, but I’m not sure I’m right.

DS6 has a speech delay, cognitive disabilities, hypotonia causing him to walk a little strange, and prefers stereotypically girl attire/backpacks/etc.  there’s been a preteen boy(maybe 10 or 11) on the bus harassing him; making fun of his speech, his walk, his beautiful purple unicorn backpack, his pink sparkly shoes.  We’ve talked to the school, the bus garage, and nothing changes.  The school is so short staffed they don’t even have enough bus drivers much less any bus monitors.  They have audio/visual cameras on the busses and that’s it.  Since they’re short bus drivers, the routes are long and the busses full.

So yes, we’ve gone through every appropriate channel with no resolution.  
Yesterday morning this boy started mocking DS on the bus and when he didn’t respond(as we’ve instructed), reached over and physically pushed him as he walked to his seat, knocking him to the bus floor(as I said before, DS6 has physical disabilities and it doesn’t take a hard push to knock him over). DD9(who is tiny and the size of a six year old, but athletic and strong) lost her mind. She grabbed the kid out of his seat, put him on the floor and slapped him across the face while yelling at him to never talk to her brother again. She then let him up and helped her brother to his seat and made sure he was okay.  And flipped off the kid as he went back to his seat. 

DD9 is suspended from the bus and they want her to write the kid an apology letter. They aren’t allowed to tell us if that kid had any discipline and that’s fine. I’ve reviewed the recordings and it is as I described which is also in line with DD9’s story.  
I don’t know if I should make her write the apology letter.  I don’t know if I should discipline her.  I don’t think words are worth violence usually. I don’t even think much of anything is worth violence.  and maybe it’s wrong, but I’m a tad bit proud of DD9, though I haven’t told her that.  All we said is we’ll drive them to school from now on which is not an inconvenience anyway.  But I obviously need to talk to her about this, but I don’t know what to say. “Don’t hit—but defend your brother”?

I don’t know. Parenting is hard and I always feel like I’m screwing up.

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[YaelAldrich]

I only sadded this thread because the bully sucks. Not because of your son or your daughter or your parenting. I'm not going to say more because people piled on me in the WS thread for my opinion of "deserved violence".

Edited April 7, 2022 by YaelAldrich
Sadded not added

[ktgrok]

Well, from what you said, DD9 didn't return words with violence, she reacted with violence AFTER the boy had pushed her brother down. Given his medical isues, I'm assuming he's not able to catch himself the same way another child would, and could potentially get really hurt if that happened again. So she physically reacted, but only after the other child started that. 

Personally, I think holding him down would be preferable to slapping...but meh. 

Also, she lost her temper, like Will Smith, yes, but 1. she's a child, he's an adult who should have developed impulse control by now and 2. someone was physically being aggressive first. 

[lmrich]

I really do not know how to advise you on how to parent this .. but this is NOTHING like "the slap" - your dd was defending a child who was being physically and verbally abused by a larger and older kid who has a history of bullying. And your dd is a child. Plus nothing else was working. The school knew about the problem, the bus driver knew about the problem and nothing was done to protect an innocent child. 

And I would be proud of my dd, too. She sounds awesome! 

Is writing the letter dependent on her getting back on the bus? 

And I am so sorry that this has happened.

[ktgrok]

Also, is it possible for YOU to talk to this child, are you ever near him? Do you know any adults that do have interactions with him, if you don't? Someone who can say, not in a threatening aggressive way, but in a "this is not acceptable" way, "I know you've been teasing so and so, and that's not okay. That child has medical issues, and is made by God same as you and me. Making fun of someone's physical disability is mean spirited and childish and makes you look pretty sad. I expect better from you from now on."

I find having an adult give a stern admonishing that isn't punishment works best in this kind of thing. I've actually never had it not work - usually kids doing this kind of crap are used to either being screamed at which they just block out or get defensive about, or ignored. Being spoken to, with eye contact, in a serious but not aggressive way is not their norm, and it stands out. But you would need reasonable interaction with him to pull it off, you can't stalk him or anything, lol. But if another adult you know sees him at soccer or whatever, that might work. 

[TheReader]

If you are planning and able to drive the kids from now on, so that DD doesn't need to write the letter of apology as a prerequisite of getting allowed back on the bus, then I'd do that and not have her write the letter. 

She did, as Katie pointed out, respond with physical reaction after a first physical action on the part of the bully - not "just" after the words. And there is a difference (IMO) in one single instance of a verbal assault vs ongoing verbal assault, AND a big difference between verbal assault and regular joking. This being a case of ongoing verbal (and now physical) assault by the bully, towards your son.  All of which, IMO, makes your reaction/response reasonable. 

If she has to get back on the bus, and they require the letter to do so, then I guess I'd have her do it with a simple "I'm sorry that I pushed you down" or something.  And then maybe ask/demand/insist that your kids be allowed to sit in the front seat right behind the driver, so they aren't forced to interact with the bully and since the school hasn't been able to provide any other solution or protection. 

Bottom line, though, I don't think you're wrong. 

[happi duck]

I'm proud of her!  I think that was all quick thinking!

It angers me that she got kicked off the bus for protecting someone but that prior to this the bully wasn't kicked off.

I might help her write an "apology" that is an account of the ongoing cruelty. 

I taught a long time ago and bus issues don't sound like they've improved at all.  Nothing was ever really done.

(Hugs)

[Murphy101]

I would take my daughter for ice cream. And zero apology would be written.

Self defense is a good thing.  I get that violence is not ideal. But I will never be a pacifist to the point that all violence is wrong. Because some things are worth fighting for. Like little kids (especially siblings) getting physically harassed.

And I suspect that bully will hesitate to mess with either of them for a long time, UNLESS she writes an apology letter, in which case he will likely escalate imo. 

[saraha]

I would absolutely not make her write the letter, but I have the luxury of not needing the school. 
If you are needing the school, maybe it’s time for a life lesson of doing a distasteful thing in order to keep the peace and continue with a service you need? 
If she has to write the letter, I’m petty enough at this point to show her how to write it passive aggressively and say Sorry for embarrassing you on the bus after you tried to hurt my brother again, I didn’t realize I was so much stronger than you are 😉

[Idalou]

I would find a way to know of the bully is still on the bus. If you receive a letter from him then he must also have been disciplined. If those are a no, then I would raise holy hell. 

[Home'scool]

I'm just going to say it ........ BRAVA for your daughter!

This jerk of a kid is harassing (a) her brother and (b) a boy who has disabilities. Way to go! You have raised her right.

She didn't beat the boy black and blue, she just gave (what I think) is an appropriate response to someone physically putting their hands on your son.

If she does write an apology letter, I would phrase it in a way that says "I am sorry I was reduced to such behavior but after seeing the bullying and injustice I felt I had to stand up for my brother."

I would also try talking to the kid's parents? IDK

I just wanted to say good for your daughter.

[Meriwether]

Why was the bully not kicked off the bus and required to write an apology letter?

[HS Mom in NC]

The bully physically assaulted your innocent child.  Your daughter physically hit the guilty party in what seems to me to be a proportionate response.  His punishment at her hands was just and right. She should wear her suspension like a badge of honor. And yes, I have heard someone who was a bully talk about rethinking his approach to life as he physically assaulted someone and a stronger bystander beat the crap out him. 

[catz]

I agree this was not responding to words with violince.  This was defending a smaller child who was physically attacked.   I would have a huge problem with her being forced to apologize while this kid gets nothing.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by catz

[Murphy101]

I’d fight hard to not do that apology. Basically I’d tell the school I’d happily give my daughter an apology letter from them explaining all the ways they couldn’t do anything about this bully despite knowing the on going situation of discrimination-based hate this bully has been dishing out.  I’m happy to get a lawyer if they’d like.  Because my kid is not going write an apology letter to their abuser when my kids finally snapped and defended themselves from. I think that’s emotional abuse.

Say that and see if they still say she can’t ride the bus or has to write a letter. I’m calling bs on that. And I’d want a copy of the video jic they try to twist the story later. I think both kids should be suspended for 1-3 days. That’s honestly more of a cool down time before they have to face each other again than anything imo, and not an entirely bad idea. 

[Miss Tick]

Maybe she could learn about the "not apology apology" a la William Carlos Williams' "This is just to say" poem. It is a useful life lesson to be able to recognize and call these out. Hers could be something like:

"I'm sorry you felt the need to verbally and physically abuse a younger boy on the bus. Next time you do that I won't slap you."

 

The bully should be assigned a seat next to the driver.

Edited April 7, 2022 by SusanC
had an extra "Flying Comma"

[JustEm]

I think what your dd did was entirely appropriate and I would absolutely not make her write a letter.  She defended her disabled brother from physical violence.  Words didn't work when you, the adult, tried to intervene.  The bully escalated to violence and someone put him in his place in an appropriate way. 

I would go as far as to fight the suspension and I'd be demanding that the other student not be allowed to be anywhere on that bus other than directly behind the bus driver. And I'd make it very clear that you will get a lawyer involved if the school does not protect your child from the bully in the future.

Bullying is a huge issue and for the school and bus company to do nothing and then have it turn physical and then punish the child that defended the victim is absolutely disgusting.

Edited April 7, 2022 by hjffkj

[Murphy101]

I don’t think this has diddly to do with smith situation. He may have been provoked (which can be a valid defense in some scenarios) but he was not defending his wife from someone physically messing with her.  I think most people do agree that once things get physical - gloves can come off in defense and the aggressor doesn’t get to whine about it just bc he picked a fight he didn’t win. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I guess I refrenced the WS situation because that(and the thread here) made me reflect on my own personal beliefs about what’s acceptable/not acceptable, and then this situation made me reflect more.

We’ve told our kids never to start a fight, but if you find yourself needing to defend yourself or someone who needs help, to do so. Then after the WS thing I thought, maybe that isn’t the right thing to teach my children, maybe I need to teach them that walking away or finding an authority figure is a better solution.

Then this happens, so I am still reflecting on what I believe.

 

DD is only suspended from the bus pending that letter. She absolutely does not want to write it and said if anyone picks on her brothers(both have special needs) she’d do it again.  I’m inclined to say ok, don’t write it.  The only reason they ride the bus is because we are new to the district and live rurally, no neighbors, and thought the bus might be a good way to meet kids who live on our road or close by.  We can actually sleep thirty minutes longer if I drive them to school and my job is happy to let me be 10-15 minutes late because I’m doing a school drop off. My SIL lives a five minute walk from the school and is happy to have them walk over after school and spend an hour with her or pick the up on bad weather days. She can’t have kids and would love that daily ritual. So not being on the bus is not at an all issue.

But. I also don’t want DD to think that she can just slap every jerk out there or defy authority.  The apology letter doesn’t sit right with me though.  So I’m torn.

I don’t know this kid and my kids don’t know his name. The school says that they can’t give me any info, which is fine.  We’ve complained enough since September that I was under the impression they’d discussed the bullying with his parents, but it’s entirely possible they haven’t.

my gut instinct? To give my daughter a high five and then drive them the rest of the year.  DD is going to private school in the fall anyway and DS6 may wind up in a homeschool hybrid due to other issues with the district not following his IEP despite my attorney’s involvement.  But I don’t want to condone slapping people either.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

34 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Well, from what you said, DD9 didn't return words with violence, she reacted with violence AFTER the boy had pushed her brother down. Given his medical isues, I'm assuming he's not able to catch himself the same way another child would, and could potentially get really hurt if that happened again. So she physically reacted, but only after the other child started that. 

Personally, I think holding him down would be preferable to slapping...but meh. 

Also, she lost her temper, like Will Smith, yes, but 1. she's a child, he's an adult who should have developed impulse control by now and 2. someone was physically being aggressive first. 

Yes. He has an unsteady gait with low leg muscle tone and wears orthotics.  Even a small push could cause much more physical injury than it would to a typical almost 7 year old child. DD is fully aware of his physical limitations as we’ve talked about how we have to be careful with even fun roughhousing(my kids all like to play wrestle). That is part of why she reacted like that. Also, she has a keen sense of justice and isn’t afraid of anything. She’ll take anyone on to protect someone else.  This is my child who’s learning Russian so she can fly over and tell Putin to his face what she thinks.   So this doesn’t surprise me, but I want to handle it correctly without either condoning slapping jerks or decreasing her sense of justice.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

34 minutes ago, Meriwether said:

Why was the bully not kicked off the bus and required to write an apology letter?

He may have been. It’s only been a day and since my kids weren’t on the bus this morning, I wouldn’t know if he was.  The school says that it’s all confidential and they can’t tell us if or how he might have been disciplined. I don’t even know his name and definitely don’t know his parents.

[freesia]

Tbh, I am not pro-violence and my dh is even less pro-conflict, but he absolutely told our oldest ds to push back in the case of a child who had been pushing and kicking him and no matter how much we complained nothing ever changed. I think your dd is a rock star personally. I could only hope my dc would stand up for each other like that. I would probably only counsel her to next time get in his face with big words first before taking him down. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Honestly, I line up with you Mrs. Tiggywinkle. If the consequences are bus only, and it’s the bus driver and school who allowed continued bullying, and you don’t need bus services….drive them. Protect the 6yo and allow the 9yo her dignity.

This is all very nuanced, and not all 9 year olds are capable of that, but my 9 yo is much like yours and would have understood going in she would be penalized for breaking rules…and thought it worth the cost going in. 

[lauraw4321]

I’ve always told my kids that sometimes you get wrongfully punished for doing the right thing. And that if they ever used violence to defend themselves or someone else, I would 100% back them, regardless of how any authority responded. We’ve talked about how adults make the wrong decision sometimes and that I want them to think before blindly obeying an adult. And that I don’t care if they are considered “rude” or “difficult” for standing up to keep themselves or someone else safe. The example I’ve used is the story of a boat that sank on a school trip and the teacher told the kids to go below, which trapped them. 
 

All this to say? No apology. Drive them if necessary. Make sure the school knows both sides of the story. 

[JustEm]

But your dd isn't slapping every jerk out there.  She slapped a kids who physically assaulted her disabled brother.  That is all you need to know.  You should talk to her able making sure in the future she doesn't use violence when only verbally provoked or excessive violence for defending against things.  But if this kid was older and bigger than her I wouldn't call what she did excessive.  

And defying authority isn't a bad thing when authority isn't right.  Complying with police under all circumstances is important for one's safety.  But when we can't trust the adults in authority to protect the vulnerable sometimes we have to defy their rules.  And sometimes we have to stand up for what is right by not writing a stupid apology letter that isn't deserved.

[freesia]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

He may have been. It’s only been a day and since my kids weren’t on the bus this morning, I wouldn’t know if he was.  The school says that it’s all confidential and they can’t tell us if or how he might have been disciplined. I don’t even know his name and definitely don’t know his parents.

This makes me angry. I’ve worked in schools so I know why this is, but I do think that the parents of bullied children should have a right to know that something has been done about the situation.

[freesia]

Oh and no, I would not have her write the letter. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

4 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Honestly, I line up with you Mrs. Tiggywinkle. If the consequences are bus only, and it’s the bus driver and school who allowed continued bullying, and you don’t need bus services….drive them. Protect the 6yo and allow the 9yo her dignity.

This is all very nuanced, and not all 9 year olds are capable of that, but my 9 yo is much like yours and would have understood going in she would be penalized for breaking rules…and thought it worth the cost going in. 

DD knew perfectly well there would be consequences. When DH asked her, she said I know and I don’t care. 

It’s a fine line, I think, and I’m trying to screw up as a parent as little as possible lol.  But parenting books don’t cover everything and I feel like I’m making it up as I go along. 

I didn’t put it in the original post, but I did notice this child is twice DD’s size. But my kids are small; DD just moved into  a size 7 and is almost 10.  DS6 still wears a size 4T and is turning seven in a few weeks.  So this wasn’t a case of DD9 leveraging her size against anyone either.  

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[JustEm]

Have you asked whether it is safe for your ds to be on the bus again and what they are doing to keep him safe since his sister can no longer protect him? ha

[lauraw4321]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

DD knew perfectly well there would be consequences. When DH asked her, she said I know and I don’t care. 

It’s a fine line, I think, and I’m trying to screw up as a parent as little as possible lol.  But parenting books don’t cover everything and I feel like I’m making it up as I go along. 

I didn’t put it in the original post, but I did notice this child is twice DD’s size. But my kids are small; DD just moved into  a size 7 and is almost 10.  DS6 still wears a size 4T and is turning seven in a few weeks.  So this wasn’t a case of DD9 leveraging her size against anyone either.  

Life is nuanced. Trust your gut. These all sound like the right decisions. 
 

I do think you should make clear to DD9 that the difference in this case was the assault. Words aren’t enough to justify violence. 

[prairiewindmomma]

We will get some things right in parenting and mess up other things. When we are trying to do our best and be guided by principles in our parenting, we are doing what we can and should give ourselves some grace. There’s no perfect way to parent. Hugs!!

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

9 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

Have you asked whether it is safe for your ds to be on the bus again and what they are doing to keep him safe since his sister can no longer protect him? ha

I should. I might, too, because I’m just that petty.  We’d always heard great things about this district and after we moved people started telling us it’s great if you don’t have an IEP or are gifted.   My lawyer is speaking with them today over an incident last week where DS6, who has encoparesis, was not allowed to use the restroom in class due to needing to finish a test and then soiled himself.  We have a lovely homeschool hybrid school that has opened and I think that’s the plan for next year.  I have an MS.Ed in spec Ed and feel comfortable meeting his academic needs at home with a two day a week hybrid.  This school also was refusing additional resource support as they felt DS6’s IQ measured too low and that he was working at the ceiling of his ability when he scored in the 2nd percentile of the fall reading exam.   That’s when I hired the lawyer and taught him to read myself. Is he at the first grade level? No.  Is he making academic progress with me after schooling using Orton-Gillingham and is now able to read at the end of K level? Yes. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[JustEm]

2 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I should. I might, too, because I’m just that petty.  We’d always heard great things about this district and after we moved people started telling us it’s great if you don’t have an IEP or are gifted.   My lawyer is speaking with them today over an incident last week where DS6, who has encoparesis, was not allowed to use the restroom in class due to needing to finish a test and then soiled himself.  We have a lovely homeschool hybrid school that has opened and I think that’s the plan for next year.  I have an MS.Ed in spec Ed and feel comfortable meeting his academic needs at home with a two day a week hybrid. 

I am so mad for you right now!!

[ktgrok]

44 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think this has diddly to do with smith situation. He may have been provoked (which can be a valid defense in some scenarios) but he was not defending his wife from someone physically messing with her.  I think most people do agree that once things get physical - gloves can come off in defense and the aggressor doesn’t get to whine about it just bc he picked a fight he didn’t win. 

Also a lot of us felt that the issue was the Will went to violence as a FIRST reaction. 

In this scenario, many OTHER things were tried first, up to and including alerting the proper authorities. Only when all else failed AND the situation escalated to where it posed a real and present danger to a small child did she use violence. 

Totally and utterly different. 

And I say this as someone who both thought Will was in the wrong, but also once pinned a known thief and drug addict by his neck to a wall to make clear that he was NEVER to step foot in my apartment again. 

[fairfarmhand]

58 minutes ago, Home'scool said:

"I am sorry I was reduced to such behavior but after seeing the bullying and injustice I felt I had to stand up for my brother."

 

This is what I would do if my kid HAD to write the letter. It calls out the kid on his bad behavior. Reminds me a little of Anne Shirley's apology to Rachel Linde

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

4 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

This is what I would do if my kid HAD to write the letter. It calls out the kid on his bad behavior. Reminds me a little of Anne Shirley's apology to Rachel Linde

Well, Anne is her favorite literary character, next to Hermione Granger. 😂
DH is inclined to not make her write the letter, and I think I agree.
It would all be lies anyway, she isn’t in the least bit sorry. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Night Elf]

Now see, I'd go complain to the school again. Tell them you've repeatedly complained about bullying and now the bully physically assaulted your child and his sister had to defend him. What are they going to do to see this doesn't happen again? 

When my dd was being harassed on the bus, I took her off of it, but that didn't stop the bullying in school. I had the luxury of homeschooling though so I went up to the school, complained that they were allowing my child to be harmed and told them I was taking her out for her safety. They were stunned. I just turned around and left and didn't have a conversation about it but I did let them know I was extremely unhappy with the way they were handling things. 

No, I wouldn't write the letter and if I was forced to do so, I too would make sure to mention his violence. I'm sorry I hurt you when I was defending my brother after you pushed him to the ground because you love to tease him so much. Hopefully they'll accept it and not make her write anything she doesn't believe in. 

[kristin0713]

I didn't read all the replies. Your DD was defending her brother from physical harm after the school neglected to protect him. I would commend her, not make her write the letter, and go to bat for her with the school. Their negligence led to this point. That boy should have been removed from the bus before this had a chance to happen. 

[happi duck]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Well, Anne is her favorite literary character, next to Hermione Granger. 😂

Just in case all her hive aunties weren't proud enough!

[Spryte]

I would not make her write an apology letter she doesn’t want to write, in this case. That’s not justice.

The schools is in the wrong here, they had a responsibility to protect your child. They didn’t do it, things escalated to a physical level and your DD a was placed in a position where she felt she had to step in to do their job (protecting him). They created this mess, and have hurt both of your kids. I’m angry on your whole family’s behalf!

I’d be driving them, and figuring out how to pull them to homeschool, or sending in the attorneys (you did that, I think). 

[happi duck]

Just to clarify that I am anti-apology.

I would only write the letter as a way to get the bully behavior into the record. (Without an actual apology)

Not using the bus sounds great!

Edited April 7, 2022 by happi duck

[Murphy101]

20 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

DD knew perfectly well there would be consequences. When DH asked her, she said I know and I don’t care. 

It’s a fine line, I think, and I’m trying to screw up as a parent as little as possible lol.  But parenting books don’t cover everything and I feel like I’m making it up as I go along. 

I didn’t put it in the original post, but I did notice this child is twice DD’s size. But my kids are small; DD just moved into  a size 7 and is almost 10.  DS6 still wears a size 4T and is turning seven in a few weeks.  So this wasn’t a case of DD9 leveraging her size against anyone either.  

Okay? I don’t understand. Many times in life, doing the right and good thing has some really poopy consequences. Is it not the goal to raise our children to be brave enough to do the right and good thing anyways?  Is it only okay if they are thoughtless about it and didn’t think of the consequences first? Or thought about it enough to talk themselves out of doing the right thing?  I don’t think so at all.

I wouldn’t have cared at all either. Because not all authority is Just Authority and knowing when it isn’t is extremely important.  Good for her for learning that unjust school authority has no power to remove her Christian duty, free will, family bonds or courage.

9 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I should. I might, too, because I’m just that petty.  We’d always heard great things about this district and after we moved people started telling us it’s great if you don’t have an IEP or are gifted.   My lawyer is speaking with them today over an incident last week where DS6, who has encoparesis, was not allowed to use the restroom in class due to needing to finish a test and then soiled himself.  We have a lovely homeschool hybrid school that has opened and I think that’s the plan for next year.  I have an MS.Ed in spec Ed and feel comfortable meeting his academic needs at home with a two day a week hybrid.  This school also was refusing additional resource support as they felt DS6’s IQ measured too low and that he was working at the ceiling of his ability when he scored in the 2nd percentile of the fall reading exam.   That’s when I hired the lawyer and taught him to read myself. Is he at the first grade level? No.  Is he making academic progress with me after schooling using Orton-Gillingham and is now able to read at the end of K level? Yes. 

None of that is petty?  None of this is petty at all imo. Exhausting and infuriating and discouraging situations to deal with but not petty to actually deal with them.

[Farrar]

The punishment given out by the school is more than enough (like, literally, depending on the circumstances, I think they possibly went too far). I would definitely not punish her further.

Seconding everyone pointing out that she's a kid and we all have to have different responses for kids. 

I don't feel like I can ever celebrate solving a problem with violence, even though sometimes there's a visceral thrill there. I'd definitely be super understanding and supportive and not upset. But my approach in situations like this is to talk about other ways to handle things. And to talk about ways to see it systemically - yes, even with a 9 yo. Were there things everyone could have done to prevent it? What are good ways to handle anger in general? How can we all support your brother better? Etc. etc.

That's the part that feels like it falls down for me. Like, is this other kid writing an apology? If she had gone to the bus driver or monitor would they have done anything? Was anyone about to do anything for your ds? Because it sounds like no. And that puts your dd in a terrible position. If the adults weren't about to do something, what power did she have to help other than her fists? Adults shouldn't put kids in positions like that. Because that's an impossible situation for a kid. It encourages violence or victimization - neither of those is okay.

As for the apology... I'm neutral. My feelings on that depend on the bigger picture. I think if there were adults who could have and would have stepped in to handle it appropriately if she had gone to them - if she had recourse - AND if the other kid is being asked to do the same - that's it's appropriate, but that it would also be an appropriate place for her to express how hurt she was seeing his actions - not just the shove, but the ongoing bullying. A "I should not have attacked you and I'm sorry I hurt you. Here are things that I'm upset about..." kind of note. But if none of that is happening, then it feels really wrong to add this punishment to her. To hold her accountable when the systems around her continue to fail all the kids.

[Carrie12345]

In this circumstance, I’d bake my kids a cake. No apologies. 
 

 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

9 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Okay? I don’t understand. Many times in life, doing the right and good thing has some really poopy consequences. Is it not the goal to raise our children to be brave enough to do the right and good thing anyways?  Is it only okay if they are thoughtless about it and didn’t think of the consequences first? Or thought about it enough to talk themselves out of doing the right thing?  I don’t think so at all.

I wouldn’t have cared at all either. Because not all authority is Just Authority and knowing when it isn’t is extremely important.  Good for her for learning that unjust school authority has no power to remove her Christian duty, free will, family bonds or courage.

None of that is petty?  None of this is petty at all imo. Exhausting and infuriating and discouraging situations to deal with but not petty to actually deal with them.

I meant that I am sick of dealing with these people and would be happy to just to go the really petty route.  But my lawyer is handling most of it and that’s probably best lol.

I always hear my mom’s voice about catching more flies with honey and with vinegar.  She is very much a people pleaser to the point she never stood up for me to other adults even when it was warranted and I needed her to, and that’s something that’s always in the back of my mind. Am I overreacting to my child’s need because of that, or am I reacting how a normal parent(ie not how my mom did) would?  Plus, I am on the spectrum(hence why I really needed my mom to stand up for me when adults thought I was just mouthy or misbehaving, when in reality I was/am just a very black and white thinker who has trouble with social cues) and sometimes have trouble figuring out how to handle social stuff.  And I never went to school, neither did DH, and the public school system still feels very foreign to me, even though my oldest is in 6th grade.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[73349]

I'd drive both kids to school & meanwhile request special transportation services for DS since the current transportation is not safe for him to ride. I would not have my DD write a letter.

[Harriet Vane]

I would not--NOT--require any apology letter from dd. 

I would require an apology letter from the idiot adults who let a bully act like a bully without consequence, forcing your dd to defend her brother when he was physically attacked.

 

[lauraw4321]

I tell my kids ALL THE TIME that virtue is its own reward. 

[purpleowl]

If they aren't allowed to tell you if the other kid had any discipline, then what exactly are they planning to do with an apology letter from her? Because giving it to the kid would be revealing part of HER discipline to another student. That's a double standard.

Beyond that, I would also not have her write the letter for the same reasons others have mentioned. 

[kbutton]

43 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I should. I might, too, because I’m just that petty. 

Not petty--it's redirecting the responsibility in the situation back to the place it belongs. 

17 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

I meant that I am sick of dealing with these people and would be happy to just to go the really petty route.  But my lawyer is handling most of it and that’s probably best lol.

I always hear my mom’s voice about catching more flies with honey and with vinegar.  She is very much a people pleaser to the point she never stood up for me to other adults even when it was warranted and I needed her to, and that’s something that’s always in the back of my mind. Am I overreacting to my child’s need because of that, or am I reacting how a normal parent(ie not how my mom did) would? 

I don't think you are overreacting. I had a mom like yours that didn't defend (and a dad that had a sense of justice but didn't defend either, but I am not sure why). My grandmother was the type to be over the top to defend her kids (she was largely unparented--not neglected--in some ways, so I suspect that is why). I am closer to my grandmother than my mom but tend to be able to usually rein it in. You are responding with broader thinking than I would be able to summon in the moment. I think you are doing well! 

21 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

And I never went to school, neither did DH, and the public school system still feels very foreign to me, even though my oldest is in 6th grade.

I went to both public and private school, and both are still foreign to me. It's changed a lot in some ways. The closest I can get to relating is how a large chunk of my older son's vo-tech class is completely noncomplaint with subs (they have one weekly), totally disrespectful, and talks about s*x all the time.