In light of the infamous televised slap, help me with this parenting issues

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

The school emailed and was like, the parents of the boy are really concerned that she pinned him to the ground and could have crushed him(by sitting on him). He’s at least 120-130 from the video I saw(I have an 11 year old 120 pound child and they’re about the same size).

This is DD9 and DS6. 
My lawyer said don’t even respond.

(Picture removed for privacy, but believe me, she’s small lol)

Edited April 9, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[wintermom]

That school is a disaster waiting to happen, as are the kid and his parents. I really think you need to pull your dc before something very bad happens to their physical or mental well-being. 

I'm so sorry this is happening. Your dc are amazing (and absolutely adorable), though! What a proud mommy moment I'd have if my dd stood up for someone that way. 

ETA: I know it won't help in any way, but this would be a terrific news story. That might shut the school and other parents up. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by wintermom

[SKL]

Your kids are adorable!

[SKL]

But back to the topic!  Oh my gosh they are threatening you?  Maybe you need to publish a side-by-side of your son and their son if they want to discuss who may have harmed whom.

You have the video in your possession?  If not, please save a copy somehow.

[SKL]

It makes me sick that kids like yours have to leave the school so the bullies can run it in peace.  😕

[Kassia]

I'm really sorry too.  What a crazy situation.  Your dd did the right thing and your kids are adorable.  

Cr@p like this is what made us leave our school district.  Unbelievable the stuff they allow.  

 

[Tanaqui]

Those parents should be concerned that their son is harassing and physically assaulting younger, smaller children with disabilities. They should be concerned that the school has allowed this to escalate to this point, rather than helping them get their son the help he so obviously needs. They should be concerned that, quite clearly, the school has no interest in protecting ANY child's safety - sure, today their son is the aggressor, but what if tomorrow he's the victim?

I would seriously be considering speaking to your lawyer about pressing charges against these parents after hearing *that* - charges that you would, of course, kindly drop if they agreed to mandatory therapy for their child and parenting classes for themselves, because they clearly need a wake-up call.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

24 minutes ago, SKL said:

But back to the topic!  Oh my gosh they are threatening you?  Maybe you need to publish a side-by-side of your son and their son if they want to discuss who may have harmed whom.

You have the video in your possession?  If not, please save a copy somehow.

I don’t think they’re threatening. We told them she wouldn’t be writing an apology letter and they wanted to come back with his parents being so concerned. I’d be concerned too if my kid was picking on special needs first graders.  But I’d lay my kid flat myself(no, not really, I don’t advocate child abuse, but I’d take care of it). 
the idea of being concerned about my tiny DD crushing anyone is ridiculous.  She is 60 pounds dripping wet.
My lawyer has a copy.  

Edited April 8, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[maize]

17 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:

No apology, imo. But I also wouldn't be celebrating. That the situation got to this point isn't something to high five. 

I don't understand how buses work there. Are they run by the school? A private company? Who is responsible for student safety on the bus? 

My thoughts are that both children  have been failed (by school/by bus co) before this incident, and that's where the attention needs to be, not on dd.

This has nothing to do with WS. 

 

 

School buses in the US are typically owned and operated by the school district; bus drivers are district employees.

The district is responsible for the safety of students on the bus just as they are for their safety while at school.

Bullying on a school bus should not be tolerated.

Edited April 8, 2022 by maize

[Carrie12345]

1 minute ago, maize said:

School buses in the US are typically owned and operated by the school district; bus drivers are district employees.

The district is responsible for the safety of students on the bus just as they are for their safety while at school.

Bullying on a school bus should not be tolerated.

I don’t know how typical that actually is anymore.  My district went to outsourcing a few years ago, and it seems to be a bandwagon many are jumping on.

[Clemsondana]

Having spent Saturday watching our martial arts school's tournament, which included jiu jitsu-style wrestling and 'sumo to mount' wrestling where you win once you are sitting on top of your opponent with your knees on the mat on either side of them...the likelihood that anybody needs to be worried about 2 similar-sized students crushing each other is absurd, and obviously if anybody was going to be worried it would be the parents of the smaller child.  My kid has been both the heavier and the lighter, depending on the pairing, and has never been concerned about injury.  Ugh.  

On another note...when my kids were younger one of them dealt with some bully/pestering behavior at church.  The adults tried to stay on top of it, but it wasn't easy in bigger groups to be constantly watching out for the behavior of one kid.  I taught my kid to be loud - to say 'Back away from me' or 'Leave me alone' assertively and with enough volume to draw the attention of adults and other kids.  Sometimes there are 'gang of bully' situations, but often the unplasant kid bothers other kids, too, and they will step in.  Some bullies will pick on one kid but are less likely to do something if 6 kids are giving them the evil eye and standing behind the smaller kid.  And, even the most passive adult will often say 'Stop it, bully' if they hear a kid saying 'Bully, leave me alone!'.  Your daughter or a classmate of your son could also do it - 'Bully, leave Brother alone!'.  

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

6 minutes ago, maize said:

School buses in the US are typically owned and operated by the school district; bus drivers are district employees.

The district is responsible for the safety of students on the bus just as they are for their safety while at school.

Bullying on a school bus should not be tolerated.

Our district runs its own bussing.  So this is all on the district.

[happi duck]

Crushed?!?!!  How about telling your kid to stop being a bully so no one has a reason to "crush" him?  "Kid, stop being a bully because we're concerned that someone will crush you!" 

Seriously though, the bully never gets told to stop it's always the victim who gets told to modify their behavior.

[PaxEtLux]

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

Ignoring the bigger issues for the moment, though, I'm intrigued by the focus on the letter of apology.  Is a forced apology really valid, in a moral sense?  And how does that really help the issue?

Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that you got a short pro-forma apology from the bully.  Then what?  Would you happily send your kids on the bus and to school with that bully without any more worries?  I wouldn't.  To me, a  written apology wouldn't change the situation at all.  I'd at least want assurances from the school that the bully wouldn't be on my kids' bus, or if he had to be, that he would have to sit in the back, so their paths wouldn't cross, or things like that.

[wintermom]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

Having spent Saturday watching our martial arts school's tournament, which included jiu jitsu-style wrestling and 'sumo to mount' wrestling where you win once you are sitting on top of your opponent with your knees on the mat on either side of them...the likelihood that anybody needs to be worried about 2 similar-sized students crushing each other is absurd, and obviously if anybody was going to be worried it would be the parents of the smaller child.  My kid has been both the heavier and the lighter, depending on the pairing, and has never been concerned about injury.  Ugh.  

On another note...when my kids were younger one of them dealt with some bully/pestering behavior at church.  The adults tried to stay on top of it, but it wasn't easy in bigger groups to be constantly watching out for the behavior of one kid.  I taught my kid to be loud - to say 'Back away from me' or 'Leave me alone' assertively and with enough volume to draw the attention of adults and other kids.  Sometimes there are 'gang of bully' situations, but often the unplasant kid bothers other kids, too, and they will step in.  Some bullies will pick on one kid but are less likely to do something if 6 kids are giving them the evil eye and standing behind the smaller kid.  And, even the most passive adult will often say 'Stop it, bully' if they hear a kid saying 'Bully, leave me alone!'.  Your daughter or a classmate of your son could also do it - 'Bully, leave Brother alone!'.  

This is great advice, however in this particular case with only the driver onboard, I think the young girl completed a more than successful defensive move. 

[Clemsondana]

1 minute ago, wintermom said:

This is great advice, however in this particular case with only the driver onboard, I think the young girl completed a more than successful defensive move. 

Absolutely.  But, they'll be in school with this kid for the rest of the year.  The kid may back off, or not...it's good to be prepared.  

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, Clemsondana said:

Absolutely.  But, they'll be in school with this kid for the rest of the year.  The kid may back off, or not...it's good to be prepared.  

How can you guarantee that a loud voice will be heard or attended to, though? Showing that you're not afaid to take appropriate action sends a very strong message to that boy, who is a complete coward anyway. 

[freesia]

6 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The school emailed and was like, the parents of the boy are really concerned that she pinned him to the ground and could have crushed him(by sitting on him). He’s at least 120-130 from the video I saw(I have an 11 year old 120 pound child and they’re about the same size).

This is DD9 and DS6. 
My lawyer said don’t even respond.

Totally insane. I would be tempted to write back—tell them she weighs 60 pounds. I would also ask where the letters to my children are and probably ask clearly—his parents do know what he did to provoke this, right?  Because part of me is wondering if they know what he did. Your lawyer knows best, though. Unbelievable!

[Clemsondana]

20 minutes ago, wintermom said:

How can you guarantee that a loud voice will be heard or attended to, though? Showing that you're not afaid to take appropriate action sends a very strong message to that boy, who is a complete coward anyway. 

?  I'm not trying to guarantee anything.  I was suggesting another tool that she could add to her kids repertoire.  The kids won't be on the bus again, but there could be a situation with this kid or another kid, at school or somewhere else.  Being loud, every time, is something that helped my kids call attention to a recurring situation and helped get adults to take it seriously because they saw that it wasn't a one-time thing.  If the school continues as they seem to be going, they could decide that daughter is the problem.  This can help refocus attention on the boy who is instigating things.  It might not work - it was just a suggestion of something that helped us and is easy to teach to kids.    

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

1 hour ago, Clemsondana said:

Absolutely.  But, they'll be in school with this kid for the rest of the year.  The kid may back off, or not...it's good to be prepared.  

This kid actually doesn’t attend their school building; he attends the intermediate school.  Due to lack of bus drivers routes are condensed so they’ve got all grades on their bus, but our district has k-4 in a building, 5-7 in the intermediate school and 9-12 in high school. If they’re aren’t on the bus they won’t see him.

[Clemsondana]

4 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

This kid actually doesn’t attend their school building; he attends the intermediate school.  Due to lack of bus drivers routes are condensed so they’ve got all grades on their bus, but our district has k-4 in a building, 5-7 in the intermediate school and 9-12 in high school. If they’re aren’t on the bus they won’t see him.

That makes sense - I've never lived someplace that divided the grades that way.  And, in those circumstance, I'm kind of boggled that some of the older kids didn't intervene.  I'm used to our K-12 co-op, where the older kids have fun and act like goofy teens, but also jump in with younger kids if they see a problem.  

[wintermom]

20 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

?  I'm not trying to guarantee anything.  I was suggesting another tool that she could add to her kids repertoire.  The kids won't be on the bus again, but there could be a situation with this kid or another kid, at school or somewhere else.  Being loud, every time, is something that helped my kids call attention to a recurring situation and helped get adults to take it seriously because they saw that it wasn't a one-time thing.  If the school continues as they seem to be going, they could decide that daughter is the problem.  This can help refocus attention on the boy who is instigating things.  It might not work - it was just a suggestion of something that helped us and is easy to teach to kids.    

That actually sounds really sad for a young child to have to live with continuously shouting to be heard that they are being bullied. Can you imagine an adult putting up with that for long in a work situation? It's sad that children aren't properly heard by the adults supposed to be leading and responsible for them. ☹️

[KungFuPanda]

5 hours ago, maize said:

School buses in the US are typically owned and operated by the school district; bus drivers are district employees.

The district is responsible for the safety of students on the bus just as they are for their safety while at school.

Bullying on a school bus should not be tolerated.

My school district owns zero busses. It’s all contracted out. Still, they should be safely transported even if that means the school pays for an aide to ride the bus. The driver should be responsible for driving. 
 

When I was a kid, if the driver had to reprimand someone, or even pull over to address them, it was a VERY big deal that never happened to the same kid twice. 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

33 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

That makes sense - I've never lived someplace that divided the grades that way.  And, in those circumstance, I'm kind of boggled that some of the older kids didn't intervene.  I'm used to our K-12 co-op, where the older kids have fun and act like goofy teens, but also jump in with younger kids if they see a problem.  

 I gather most of the older kids have their headphones on and are on their phones.  Having the condensed bus routes is new this year; the different buildings had different busses before, but they’re short a lot of bus drivers this year.

[Clemsondana]

17 minutes ago, wintermom said:

That actually sounds really sad for a young child to have to live with continuously shouting to be heard that they are being bullied. Can you imagine an adult putting up with that for long in a work situation? It's sad that children aren't properly heard by the adults supposed to be leading and responsible for them. ☹️

I do think it's unfortuante, but you're really overstating the situation.  There were about 10 minutes of unscheduled 'gathering time' twice each week.  Bully kept getting in my kid's space.  Depending on what adult was there, they didn't always know about the problem although they all knew that the kid had all sorts of behavior issues. 

But, it was at church and they really struggled with how to support a kid who clearly needed help while not letting him bother other kids.  Kid had a drug addict mother, was being raised by grandparents, had ADHD, food sensitive-behavior issues, and who knows what else.  And kid was really big.  Somewhere around middle school, kid found a sport and some direction and actually became pretty agreeable.  They asked to start going by their middle name and it was like they had a new start.  So, as frustrating as it was for my kid at times, it seems to have made a difference.   

I generally dropped my kid off at the last minute, and some adults knew to be ready to jump in or otherwise ran a tight ship where problems didn't occur because the kids were kept busy, but sometimes I had to be elsewhere or a random parent was filling in.  So, I taught kid to say 'Kid, you are in my space' or something like that, and it was enough to manage the times that it was a problem because it drew adults' attention to the issue.  It certainly wasn't a situation of my kid needing to shout constantly for days or weeks on end because nobody cared.  People quickly intervened, but they couldn't do that unless they knew, hence the 'speak assertively'.  That was the point - you can report the situation, but you can also deal with it by drawing attention to it as it happens.  Adults aren't going to see every interaction between kids in a group setting, and this is one way that a kid can bring the problem to their attention.  

[KungFuPanda]

I’m still mad about this and these aren’t even my kids. I’d have a serious urge to Burn It Down (metaphorically) and do a whole PSA media blitz asking parents to speak to their children.  Encourage these older kids to look up from their phones and speak up when they see an injustice. I’d definitely mention the bully’s mother’s “concerns.” She should be publicly shamed for raising a monster and trying to make him out to be the victim. The school should be called out for demanding an apology. Social media makes it really easy to get the word out. Even better if you can get your hands on the video or rally some of the kids on the bus to document what goes on.  

[Clemsondana]

I've got to add that I'm getting a little uncomfortable with the level of vitriol going towards the bully.  The kid behaved like a bully.  The behavior is unacceptable and needs to have consequences.  It needs to be stopped.  But calling the kid a monster and coward and all of that... I've done a good bit of work with with kids, through church and afterschool programs.  I've seen multiple situations where kids acted like total jerks and bullies...and then changed.  The change may have been as a result of consequences, or changes in the kids' circumstances, or through maturity, I don't know.  It's not unusual for me to say goodbye to a kid in May and to find a completely different personality, for better or worse, in August. None of this changes what Mrs. T needs to do to protect her kids, which has to be her priority.  None of this changes what the school should have done in the first place.  The school is absurd in setting up the bully as the victim.  His parents need to be disabused of the idea that he is owed an apology or that the biggest concern is whether he gets hurt.  But, he is still a child, in need of being taught to do differently.  

[maize]

Yeah, the bully is just a kid himself--a kid who made a bad choice, but doesn't need to be demonized as an individual. 11 is very young still.

We can act to protect victims without demonizing a kid who acts as a bully.

[Starr]

10 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The school emailed and was like, the parents of the boy are really concerned that she pinned him to the ground and could have crushed him(by sitting on him). He’s at least 120-130 from the video I saw(I have an 11 year old 120 pound child and they’re about the same size).

This is DD9 and DS6. 
My lawyer said don’t even respond.

Look at those cuties! Follow your lawyer's lead. I'm so sorry.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

I don’t really have ill Will towards this other kid, because I don’t have any idea what is going on in his life or if he’s neurodivergent or anything. My kids only think they know his first name. I know nothing about him or his life or his challenges.

But obviously I am most concerned about protecting my own kids, but at this point I am also letting my attorney handle any correspondence with the school. I’m actually speaking at a conference this weekend six hours from home, but DH told DD she did the right thing, and that’s where we’ll leave it.

My ASD, perseverating, black and white thinking 11 year old though is now stuck on this incident and what HE would do to anyone who pushed his little brother. The little brother who drives him crazy and that he fights with constantly. The little brother he is offering his life savings to send to day camp all summer just so he won’t be home to brother.  Apparently my kids are tribal. They can fight with each other constantly but no one else can.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Mrs Tiggywinkle

[Clemsondana]

@Mrs TiggywinkleYou've done a great job (and weren't who I was talking about directing anger towards the kid).  I'm glad you've got a lawyer dealing with the school - when I told my husband about this his first response is 'Sounds like a reason to have pre-paid legal services'. 🙂  But, there's plenty of anger to direct towards the school and the handling of this.  When I was a kid, this would have been handled by having the bully kid sit on the bus seat right behind the driver so that they could monitor any misbehavior and report it to the school.  After your first complaint, the kid might have been told to sit in the reserved seat for a week or 2, and if that didn't squash the behavior then they might have been told to sit there the rest of the semester so that things never escalated and the kid was always supervised.  Or they could have been suspended from the bus.  Or the driver could have asked a couple of older kids to let your kids sit with them - not really the kids' job, but it probably would have put a stop to the problem.  It's unreasonable that the school's approach was 'none of the above'.  Kids being mean is hardly a rare and unusual situation for a school to deal with!  

[maize]

While kids being mean is certainly not a rare situation for a school to deal with, it is one that is rarely managed well. This is one of the weaknesses of any system that puts large groups of children under the supervision of a handful of adults--even with the best of intentions the adults can't actively monitor all the kids all the time, and most bullying interactions fly under the radar.

The lack of any effort to address the issue when they had been informed of ongoing harassment in this case is egregious and shameful though.

OP, I have sons with a five year age gap and when the older (also ASD with other complicating issues) was 11 he was constantly on his little brother's back for all kinds of things his 11 year old brain just couldn't handle. I was pretty despairing over their relationship. Now, at ages 16 and 11, they get along fabulously and really seem to enjoy each other's company. Time and maturity can work wonders.

[QueenCat]

23 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The school emailed and was like, the parents of the boy are really concerned that she pinned him to the ground and could have crushed him(by sitting on him). He’s at least 120-130 from the video I saw(I have an 11 year old 120 pound child and they’re about the same size).

This is DD9 and DS6. 
My lawyer said don’t even respond.

(Picture removed for privacy, but believe me, she’s small lol)

And yet they don't seem concerned that your ds could have been injured. Glad you have a lawyer.

[wintermom]

17 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

I do think it's unfortuante, but you're really overstating the situation.  There were about 10 minutes of unscheduled 'gathering time' twice each week.  Bully kept getting in my kid's space.  Depending on what adult was there, they didn't always know about the problem although they all knew that the kid had all sorts of behavior issues. 

But, it was at church and they really struggled with how to support a kid who clearly needed help while not letting him bother other kids.  Kid had a drug addict mother, was being raised by grandparents, had ADHD, food sensitive-behavior issues, and who knows what else.  And kid was really big.  Somewhere around middle school, kid found a sport and some direction and actually became pretty agreeable.  They asked to start going by their middle name and it was like they had a new start.  So, as frustrating as it was for my kid at times, it seems to have made a difference.   

I generally dropped my kid off at the last minute, and some adults knew to be ready to jump in or otherwise ran a tight ship where problems didn't occur because the kids were kept busy, but sometimes I had to be elsewhere or a random parent was filling in.  So, I taught kid to say 'Kid, you are in my space' or something like that, and it was enough to manage the times that it was a problem because it drew adults' attention to the issue.  It certainly wasn't a situation of my kid needing to shout constantly for days or weeks on end because nobody cared.  People quickly intervened, but they couldn't do that unless they knew, hence the 'speak assertively'.  That was the point - you can report the situation, but you can also deal with it by drawing attention to it as it happens.  Adults aren't going to see every interaction between kids in a group setting, and this is one way that a kid can bring the problem to their attention.  

If it was 10 minutes, why didn't you stay with your dc until the bus arrived. How would you feel if you were bullied everyday and no one cared, they just told you to shout. Would you stay in that kind of job or situation yourself?

It's not acceptable to allow compliant kids to be the constant victims while non-compliant ones are allow to behave poorly. We don't like this in animal behaviour and yet we accept it in human behaviour. It's seen a benevolant toward the aggressor. 

The correct move, IME, would be to have an adult watching and correcting the aggressor. Actively teaching them the correct behaviour. You are not doing the aggressor any favours at all by allowing the poor behaviour to continue. 

The biography of Helen Keller is wonderful for showing what can happen to a child who is left to figure things out on their own in the form of misguided kindness from her parents, and then what happens when someone actually works intentionally with the same child. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by wintermom

[SKL]

18 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

?  I'm not trying to guarantee anything.  I was suggesting another tool that she could add to her kids repertoire.  The kids won't be on the bus again, but there could be a situation with this kid or another kid, at school or somewhere else.  Being loud, every time, is something that helped my kids call attention to a recurring situation and helped get adults to take it seriously because they saw that it wasn't a one-time thing.  If the school continues as they seem to be going, they could decide that daughter is the problem.  This can help refocus attention on the boy who is instigating things.  It might not work - it was just a suggestion of something that helped us and is easy to teach to kids.    

I also taught my kids that when they were little.  Seems to me it's a good deterrent, a good way to get adults' attention [and action] without being suspended for hitting back, and a good way to make sure others are aware if this is an ongoing problem vs. one-off.  I don't know if my kids ever used this method ... my kids both say they've never been bullied at school.  (They were together in every class through 8th grade, so that might have been a factor.  There's strength in numbers?)  However, there will be some situations where this doesn't work ... the bus situation where the driver is the only adult present would be an example.

ETA a plus of this method is that the adults in charge can't pretend they didn't notice or wish away the bad behavior.  That happened to me as a kid - you would think the teachers were all deaf and blind.

Edited April 9, 2022 by SKL

[katilac]

13 hours ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

 Apparently my kids are tribal. They can fight with each other constantly but no one else can.

Typical siblings for sure. 

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

If it was 10 minutes, why didn't you stay with your dc until the bus arrived. How would you feel if you were bullied everyday and no one cared, they just told you to shout. Would you stay in that kind of job or situation yourself?

She obviously cares, and she said the other adults cared as well - groups of kids are difficult to manage. It sounds to me like someone did always quickly intervene once her ds was taught to be loud. There's a time to be stay by their side, and there's a time to let them start standing on their own. 

The behavior she described is pretty mild; she didn't leave her son to the wolves. She taught him how to respond effectively, and it seems like it worked. That can be very empowering. 

[Clemsondana]

4 hours ago, wintermom said:

If it was 10 minutes, why didn't you stay with your dc until the bus arrived. How would you feel if you were bullied everyday and no one cared, they just told you to shout. Would you stay in that kind of job or situation yourself?

It's not acceptable to allow compliant kids to be the constant victims while non-compliant ones are allow to behave poorly. We don't like this in animal behaviour and yet we accept it in human behaviour. It's seen a benevolant toward the aggressor. 

The correct move, IME, would be to have an adult watching and correcting the aggressor. Actively teaching them the correct behaviour. You are not doing the aggressor any favours at all by allowing the poor behaviour to continue. 

The biography of Helen Keller is wonderful for showing what can happen to a child who is left to figure things out on their own in the form of misguided kindness from her parents, and then what happens when someone actually works intentionally with the same child. 

I'm not sure if you're mixing me up with another poster - there was no bus, the activity was only twice a week, and I stated that people did intervene each time as soon as they knew about the circumstance, which is why I told my kid to loudly announce any issue as it occurred. 

I stated that I usually dropped my kid off at the last minute.  However, the kid activity started at the same time as a rehearsal that I needed to be at.  If the primary adult supervisor was running late, I'd leave my kid while a less-experienced adult supervised.  The substitute adult would not always know to be watching for bully kid, so the kids (not just mine) would call attention to any problem so that the adult would intervene, which they did.  

I don't know how you are imagining this situation, but we are talking about the 10 minutes of socializing that happened while the kids waited for the arrival of the leader for the church activity.  There was always supervision, but sometimes it was just a parent filling in.  Nobody was allowing the poor behavior to continue in the sense of not intervening, but the kid would continue to be difficult week after week, even with intervention every time.  All 30 parents of kids involved in this age group cared.  They cared enough to make sure there was always supervision, and they cared enough to intervene every time they knew of a problem.  Once they knew it was ongoing, they cared enough to keep an eye on the bully in particular.  They also cared about the bully kid enough to not kick him out, and to try to have extra help, particularly male role models, or a strong personality, leading groups that he was a part of.  The kid got in other kids space unpleasantly, sat too close, and didn't keep his hands to himself but he wasn't hitting or kicking or anything like that.  It was mostly annoying, not traumatic.  

I'll edit to add...strangely, this kid insisted on sitting with me at the pre-activity meals.  I'd sit, my kids would sit and each would have a friend, and this kid would sit at our table. I was initially frustrated - with a traveling husband, I'd have loved a meal with adults - but it turned out that I'd sit at a table first and wind up with all kids.  I'd make sure that bully kid wasn't next to my kid that he pestered, and I'd say that anybody was welcome if they followed my rules.  I started calling it my Wednesday Manners Lessons...you can't eat off other's plates, you use silverware properly, you don't squirt the ketchup packets or play with the salt.  My kids didn't care - I tolerated kids having fun, but no nonsense at my table.  With enough supervision and clear 'If you can't behave, you'll have to go sit with your own adults' rules, everybody was fine.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Clemsondana

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Typical siblings for sure. 

She obviously cares, and she said the other adults cared as well - groups of kids are difficult to manage. It sounds to me like someone did always quickly intervene once her ds was taught to be loud. There's a time to be stay by their side, and there's a time to let them start standing on their own. 

The behavior she described is pretty mild; she didn't leave her son to the wolves. She taught him how to respond effectively, and it seems like it worked. That can be very empowering. 

It can also be a source of stress. Stress that happens on a regular basis. To know that every time you go to an activity there will be the same person there just waiting to handle you in ways you don't want to be handled. Were this an adult, they'd be in big trouble for abuse. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by wintermom

[AmandaVT]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:25 AM, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

The school emailed and was like, the parents of the boy are really concerned that she pinned him to the ground and could have crushed him(by sitting on him). He’s at least 120-130 from the video I saw(I have an 11 year old 120 pound child and they’re about the same size).

This is DD9 and DS6. 
My lawyer said don’t even respond.

(Picture removed for privacy, but believe me, she’s small lol)

Glad you already have a lawyer for the IEP not being followed. I just want to share a quick story from earlier this school year. One student put another in a (mostly) friendly headlock and waited a split second too long to release him when asked. Kids are both 10 and roughly the same size. The father of the headlockee went to the police and filed assault charges against the headlocker. There were no legal repercussions because it was totally unfounded, but sometimes parents do attempt that route. Hopefully the parents of the other child won't go down this route, but I figured it was worth a mention so you know. I think you said there is video from the bus already? 

 

As far as not being able to share discipline  - that refers to if the kid on the bus received a suspension or is being sent in front of the school board to determine if they are a risk to the school, that kind of thing. The principal can't say "oh, this is his third offense, he'll be out for 5 days minimum". I really hope you'll be receiving an apology note from that child and if the district has not yet let you know they will be initiating a harassment investigation, that is something you can/should demand. Students with IEPs are a protected class and as a special educator, I am very protective over students on my caseload and we take any HHB issues very seriously in my school, thankfully. 

I am also on team don't make her write the note. She was protecting her brother from physical violence when the adult in charge did not.

[Ting Tang]

I'm sorry your son has been bullied on the bus. I personally wouldn't have my daughter write an apology letter, either, for standing up for her brother.  Society can not allow others to mistreat people.  It sounds like this has been allowed to happen, and because it was, your daughter standing up for her brother was the natural progression.

My concern for your daughter is that if this were to ever happen again, she could encounter a worse kind of bully that could put her own safety in jeopardy.  But she has her brother's back, and that is a good thing. 

It also sounds like the school isn't too interested in letting you know they discipline students who haven't learned it is not okay to pick on people, especially people who are different for whatever reasons.  So I am glad you are done with it all, especially seeing that the other kid's parents don't seem to care they are raising a bully.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Ting Tang

[SKL]

The apology letter I want to see is:

Dear [9yo girl],

I am sorry that the school system neglected its duties to your brother, to the extent that you had to put your petite, 9yo self between your little brother and a big bully.

What you did was justified, but it should never have happened, because your brother should have been kept safe in the first place.

I'm also sorry that you were suspended from the school bus.  Disciplinary action against you was not justified.  You may return to the bus when you want to, and your parents will be reimbursed for the costs of alternative transportation.

I'm sorry the school system's actions made it look like a middle school aggressor's rights were more important than a first grade victim's.  I'm also sorry you were asked to apologize for an incident caused by somebody else.

The system will review the history of complaints about the middle school aggressor to determine how we could have acted to prevent this incident, and how we can prevent similar incidents from happening in the future.

Thank you for being a good sister and a good citizen.