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The term “maiden name”

Amethyst

By Amethyst,
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Amethyst

Amethyst

Posted
Posted

I don’t want to de-rail the other thread. 
 

I can’t stand the term “maiden name” any more!  I’ve used the term for years, of course, but now it makes my skin crawl. Maiden…yuck. It sounds so sexist and antiquated. I’m starting to try out “what was your family name”. (Although honestly, haven’t had that many occasions). Does this bother anyone else?

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Amethyst

Amethyst

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4 minutes ago, Ditto said:

I can't stand the term either.   Also "maid of honor" and "matron of honor" for wedding party.   Probably just me, and that is fine, but it does feel good to say it "out loud".

Yes! Matron. Ugh. Hate both those terms. But especially matron. 

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Tap

Tap

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It doesn't bother me at all. I'm not easily offended though, so that could be why. A 'family name' isn't less problematic, it could also be offensive to some people, who didn't feel connected to thier family. Also, it doesn't designate which family you mean.  I have my bio-dads last name. That is not the same last name, as the family I was raised with. My dd14 came to me at 5mo, but has her bio-parents last name. They didn't raise her (and she barely considers them family), so would her 'family name' be that name, or my last name since she considers me her primary family. There are also family trends of moving maiden names to middle names, or modifying the last name for gender.

There is no way to make categories without offending someone or making things award. Maybe the most neutral would be 'nee' name, but I don't think the majority of people would understand that. Maybe it will become more common in future generations? Like gender neutral pronouns?

 

 

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73349

73349

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20 minutes ago, Tap said:

Maybe the most neutral would be 'nee' name, but I don't think the majority of people would understand that. Maybe it will become more common in future generations? Like gender neutral pronouns?

 

Do you think we'd keep the feminine double E, as in employee? Literally it means "born," though, and I'm not sure that fits for those who had adoption-related name changes in childhood.

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Tap

Tap

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9 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

Do you think we'd keep the feminine double E, as in employee? Literally it means "born," though, and I'm not sure that fits for those who had adoption-related name changes in childhood.

Hmm. Maybe I don't understand your question.

Jane Smith nee Jones would mean She now has the last name smith, but was born Jones. Nee usually has an accent over the first 'e' but I can't do that on this device. 

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Jaybee

Jaybee

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I never have really thought about it, though I can see why it might bother some to use that term. I am known by my first name, married last name, but when we got married, I moved my "maiden name" to my middle name on all legal documents. I guess I kind of dropped my middle given name, as far as anything legal is concerned. Drivers' license, passport, etc., all have my family's name as my middle name, then my married name. No hyphenation, but I still feel it recognizes my family as well. I didn't want to drop it altogether.

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73349

73349

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5 minutes ago, Tap said:

Hmm. Maybe I don't understand your question.

Jane Smith nee Jones would mean She now has the last name smith, but was born Jones. Nee usually has an accent over the first 'e' but I can't do that on this device. 

I know what nee means--it's the French feminine of born (from naitre, which has a circonflex over the i, but I can't do accents on this either). We've taken into English only the feminine forms of employee and naive, but use them for both genders. Ne (with the accent) would be the masculine.

But suppose a person had a birth name and then another childhood last name--ne(e) doesn't cover the situation of changing from a second last name to a third.

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Tap

Tap

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Just now, Carolina Wren said:

I know what nee means--it's the French feminine of born (from naitre, which has a circonflex over the i, but I can't do accents on this either). We've taken into English only the feminine forms of employee and naive, but use them for both genders.

But suppose a person had a birth name and then another childhood last name--nee doesn't cover the situation of changing from a second last name to a third.

Ah, I see what you mean now. Yep, 3rd names get even more complicated! One of my daughter's had 3 legal names in one year. It still haunts her and she hasn't got all of her names straight on all of her documents yet! And that was 3 years ago. HAHA

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Corraleno

Corraleno

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It doesn't bother me at all. A maiden is an unmarried girl, and in a culture where many women change their last name when they marry, we need a term that refers to the name they had before marrying. Some people may consider the tradition of women changing their name to be sexist, but having a term for the pre-married name is not in itself sexist.

As others have pointed out, asking for "last name at birth" can be problematic for people whose names were changed through adoption, and just asking for surname doesn't distinguish between the pre-marriage surname and post-marriage surname. Even specifying "surname before marriage" wouldn't be that helpful considering how many people are married more than once.

Edited by Corraleno
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Anne

Anne

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17 minutes ago, Jaybee said:

I never have really thought about it, though I can see why it might bother some to use that term. I am known by my first name, married last name, but when we got married, I moved my "maiden name" to my middle name on all legal documents. I guess I kind of dropped my middle given name, as far as anything legal is concerned. Drivers' license, passport, etc., all have my family's name as my middle name, then my married name. No hyphenation, but I still feel it recognizes my family as well. I didn't want to drop it altogether.

This is what I did, also.  

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frogger

frogger

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I agree with athena1277 that my family name is the one I share with my husband as this is now my closest family.

I was born with one name and it was changed to my bio-dad's name at the age of 8. Don't ask me why, it wasn't deserved.

My married name was at least chosen. I have heard of men who also take their wives name if they prefer to be associated with her family rather than his. 

It doesn't bother me at all that I have a "maiden name".

 

But this thread made me curious. What is a guy's original last name called if he changes his name upon marriage? 

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maize

maize

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Doesn't bother me. Words and terms develop in all kinds of interesting ways in languages; I'm not in the habit of getting my panties in a twist over them.

I know what the term means, everyone else knows what the term means, therefore it is useful for communication. That's all I care about.

Edited by maize
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Moonhawk

Moonhawk

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I think I told this one before, but here's my maiden name story for your enjoyment and my embarrassment! lol

We were newly married, I was 20 but DH was 24. We were at TJs buying groceries and he had decided to get some beer. At the register, the cashier (older guy) asks to see ID. "Oh, but he's buying." He told me that both of us needed to show ID. I said, "But we're married." And so he asked to see my ID and I showed it and he remarked that I wasn't 21 yet. And I said "But we're married, and it's for him." And he said, "Your names don't match." (I didn't change my last name, story for another time, lol).

And me, at this point flustered because I'm 20, newly married, and making a scene in a Trader Joes decides to explain, "That's my maiden name." Except that's not what I said. Instead, very loudly I blurt out, "It's my virgin name." 

At which point the guy just said, "Oh" and rang up the beer.

DH just says, "Ok...so...ok...."  in an attempt to fill the silence. 

I didn't go back to that TJ, the closest to our apt, for at least 5 years.

Anyway, all this to say, I think maiden name is a better term than what it could be, cough cough, lol.

Edited by Moonhawk
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JustEm

JustEm

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39 minutes ago, athena1277 said:

If you asked me for my “family name”, I would assume you mean my last name now, because this is the family I am a part of now.  Especially after being married more than 20 years.  I see that as being a confusing conversation.

This is what I would think people were asking if they used 'family name.'  

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Bootsie

Bootsie

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I am not fond of the term, but I don't have a better alternative.  I also know a number of women who had a name at birth, married and took their husband's surname, and then married a second time after a divorce or being widowed.  In many of these instances it was the woman had the name of the first husband for more years than any other name, and this was the name that most of her adult friends know her by--so when she goes to provide a previous name it really depends upon the context which name she will use.

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marbel

marbel

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1 hour ago, frogger said:

But this thread made me curious. What is a guy's original last name called if he changes his name upon marriage? 

Just a guess, but I bet there are not enough men who change for there to be a term for it, at least not yet. 

But, I think "maiden name" is not a thing on legal documents anymore - not sure, but I feel like I've seen a place to put "former names" which can apply to lots of different scenarios. Including men who have changed their name upon marriage. 

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Tap

Tap

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1 hour ago, frogger said:

{snip}

33 minutes ago, marbel said:

Just a guess, but I bet there are not enough men who change for there to be a term for it, at least not yet. 

But, I think "maiden name" is not a thing on legal documents anymore - not sure, but I feel like I've seen a place to put "former names" which can apply to lots of different scenarios. Including men who have changed their name upon marriage. 

But this thread made me curious. What is a guy's original last name called if he changes his name upon marriage? 

"Unmarried last name" which could be used for a woman as well.

ETA: I guess that could get complicated too for someone who had a name change or has been married multiple times. LOL 

 

Maybe it is best to just ask what someone wants to know. 
What was you birth name/adopted name/name change that you identified with prior to your 1st, 2nd or most recent marriage/name you wish you had?  HAHA 

I laugh because names are very, very complicated in my family, so I could easily make a list of examples twice as long as that just for my immediate family. 

 

Edited by Tap
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Katy

Katy

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2 hours ago, Danae said:

That doesn’t mean same thing.  Your surname is your current last name. 

I don't think it means specifically current or anything except family name.  Depending on context you could say, "prior surname" or "first surname."

This also seems slightly more sensitive to me when dealing with a gay couple, a few of which I've known where both changed surnames when they married, to something they chose together.  One was a hyphen.  One was a shorter surname that incorporated letters from both of their first surnames.

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HS Mom in NC

HS Mom in NC

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1 hour ago, Tap said:

Maybe it is best to just ask what someone wants to know. 

What was you birth name/adopted name/name change that you identified with prior to your 1st, 2nd or most recent marriage/name you wish you had?  HAHA 

I laugh because names are very, very complicated in my family, so I could easily make a list of examples twice as long as that just for my immediate family.

Yeah, if your (general your, not your in particular) experience is never divorced parents/self and biological kids, you might be surprised by just how complicated names can be for some people.  Youngest has a Korean name on her Korean birth certificate, her American name on her American birth certificate (issued on her date of adoption at about 18 months old,) her name she chooses to be called now, which isn't a legally recognized name, and possibly a future name if she marries.  If she divorces there could be return to a previous name, and if she remarries there could be an additional name.

"Previous legal name(s)" is probably the most accurate and efficient term that applies to the most scenarios.   And why we're stilling using Mrs. is beyond me.  It just doesn't matter if a woman is married or not so let's be practical instead of slavishly traditional and use Ms. just like we use Mr. because doesn't matter if a man is married or not.

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Ausmumof3

Ausmumof3

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It doesn’t bother me but maybe we just don’t need a specific term?  People change names for many reasons, why does this one reason need its own special word?  Can’t it just be called previous legal name or something?  I do kind of like the historical connection but I can see why it bothers some people.

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fraidycat

fraidycat

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Ditto said:

I can't stand the term either.   Also "maid of honor" and "matron of honor" for wedding party.   Probably just me, and that is fine, but it does feel good to say it "out loud".

When my friend and I were each other's "maid/matron of honor" a couple months apart at our weddings, we called each other "my best b!tch".  Is that better? 😂🤣

Edited by fraidycat
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Eos

Eos

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5 hours ago, kiwik said:

I think throwing out all old traditions leads to cultural impoverishment.

I cherish many many old traditions but I think creating new traditions that don't define a woman in terms of her virginity or male relations leads to cultural enrichment.

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SKL

SKL

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It does not bother me because it means the name of the unmarried girl.  There is nothing sexist about acknowledging each woman was once an unmarried girl.

It is just practical because there are still many women who changed their last name, whereas there are far fewer men who have done so.

I guess they could change the question on forms to "former name(s)," and I do see this a lot.

I do notice that some forms are still asking for "maiden name."  It is a bit awkward for those of us whose maiden name is still our name.  But as long as the form accepts the same name in both fields, I don't care.

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