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ScoutTN

By ScoutTN,
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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, Vintage81 said:

The police officer at the press conference confirmed that the shooter identified as trans and that it may have been a motive for the shooting.

I'm seeing that too, and had been hoping that wasn't the case ever since hearing the shooter was a woman (since female shooters are extremely rare). You just know there are going to be groups of people focusing on that fact rather than the easy access to the weapons that the shooter killed people with. As if young people who identify as trans aren't already dealing with enough vilification from others 😢. I really hope this doesn't become a point of focus and distraction from the actual problems in this tragedy.

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ScoutTN
ScoutTN

Cops killed the shooter. At least 4 others dead.    I work for the church, but was not there.

ScoutTN
ScoutTN

Thank you all for the prayers. Please continue to pray. The next days and weeks and months are going to be unbelievably hard. 

ScoutTN
ScoutTN

Thank you all for your prayers and good thoughts.    We are forever changed and beginning to recover, but it will be a long, long road. Please continue to pray for the six families who lost lov

Katy

Katy

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, KSera said:

I'm seeing that too, and had been hoping that wasn't the case ever since hearing the shooter was a woman (since female shooters are extremely rare). You just know there are going to be groups of people focusing on that fact rather than the easy access to the weapons that the shooter killed people with. As if young people who identify as trans aren't already dealing with enough vilification from others 😢. I really hope this doesn't become a point of focus and distraction from the actual problems in this tragedy.

I don’t see how it can’t. I really hope you’re right though. 

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Melissa Louise

Melissa Louise

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, KSera said:

I'm seeing that too, and had been hoping that wasn't the case ever since hearing the shooter was a woman (since female shooters are extremely rare). You just know there are going to be groups of people focusing on that fact rather than the easy access to the weapons that the shooter killed people with. As if young people who identify as trans aren't already dealing with enough vilification from others 😢. I really hope this doesn't become a point of focus and distraction from the actual problems in this tragedy.

It's an unusual crime for a female, and I suppose there will be interest in the factors predisposing a female to commit a male-typical crime. I'm not going to lie; I'm curious to know if this murderous gun-crime spree by a female person is an outlier, or if it reflects an ongoing shift ie are females committing more male-typical crime than in the past? Because it's a really unusual shift, and worth understanding.

I'm sorry to sound cold. The rest of the world looked on at American mass murders by gun in sorrow and concern for a long time, and now look on in acceptance. Sadly, this is how it is.

My sociological curiosity is, of course, utterly unimportant in the face of the suffering of the victims, their families and friends, their community, and also the suffering of the survivors and first responders.

I hope it doesn't become a focus, and I can see that the temptation, on both sides of the debate, is to make it a focus. I hope the focus remains on gun culture/access.

 

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

ie are females committing more male-typical crime than in the past? Because it's a really unusual shift, and worth understanding.

This probably isn't the thread to discuss, but in a nutshell, my understanding is that crime profiles of transgender people tend to be closer to that of their biological sex than their gender identification, eg transwomen (biologically male) are more likely to commit sex crime or violent crime than transmen (biologically female). [edited to delete anecdotal comment]

Edited by KSera
not relevant
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Melissa Louise

Melissa Louise

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, KSera said:

This probably isn't the thread to discuss, but in a nutshell, my understanding is that crime profiles of transgender people tend to be closer to that of their biological sex than their gender identification, eg transwomen (biologically male) are more likely to commit sex crime or violent crime than transmen (biologically female). Purely anecdotally, I wouldn't be surprised for both to occur at lower rates than among others they share biological sex with as the trans people I know tend to be particularly gentle people, whatever way they identify. But that's speculation and clearly not related to this case.

I think anecdote is probably what needs to be avoided, tbh. Clearly those who murder children and teachers in cold blood are not gentle, regardless of their identity. Females do make up a % of mass shooters, I believe, although it's a very small % and I think tends to be as part of a crime carried out with a male accomplice, but definitely, mass murder, while male-typical, is not impossible for a female to commit.

 

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hshibley

hshibley

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

It's an unusual crime for a female, and I suppose there will be interest in the factors predisposing a female to commit a male-typical crime. I'm not going to lie; I'm curious to know if this murderous gun-crime spree by a female person is an outlier, or if it reflects an ongoing shift ie are females committing more male-typical crime than in the past? Because it's a really unusual shift, and worth understanding.

I'm sorry to sound cold. The rest of the world looked on at American mass murders by gun in sorrow and concern for a long time, and now look on in acceptance. Sadly, this is how it is.

My sociological curiosity is, of course, utterly unimportant in the face of the suffering of the victims, their families and friends, their community, and also the suffering of the survivors and first responders.

I hope it doesn't become a focus, and I can see that the temptation, on both sides of the debate, is to make it a focus. I hope the focus remains on gun culture/access.

 

I think it may be different in the USA due to the ubiquitous nature of guns. It doesn’t take much to be a mass murder here. 

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I think anecdote is probably what needs to be avoided, tbh. Clearly those who murder children and teachers in cold blood are not gentle, regardless of their identity. Females do make up a % of mass shooters, I believe, although it's a very small % and I think tends to be as part of a crime carried out with a male accomplice, but definitely, mass murder, while male-typical, is not impossible for a female to commit.

 

For sure, and I think I'll delete the anecdote part. I typically stay away from that and clearly pointed out that was not the case here. I saw earlier today that of mass shootings in the US since 1996, 164 were perpetrated by men and 4 by women.**

eta** not quite accurate. Corrected below

 

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Katy

Katy

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

I think anecdote is probably what needs to be avoided, tbh. Clearly those who murder children and teachers in cold blood are not gentle, regardless of their identity. Females do make up a % of mass shooters, I believe, although it's a very small % and I think tends to be as part of a crime carried out with a male accomplice, but definitely, mass murder, while male-typical, is not impossible for a female to commit.

 

Before the shooter’s identity was announced I think CNN said there had been 3 female mass shootings since sometime in the early 1980’s. Maybe 1982. I assume they mean in the USA. 

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Melissa Louise

Melissa Louise

Posted
Posted
Just now, Katy said:

Before the shooter’s identity was announced I think CNN said there had been 3 female mass shootings since sometime in the early 1980’s. Maybe 1982. I assume they mean in the USA. 

Yes, the % is low. Having 50% of the population vanishingly unlikely to commit this type of crime is a benefit, regardless of gun laws. Any significant increase probably needs to be monitored and investigated, because it's not good.

Jeez, those poor 9 year olds. And of course, their teachers/principal/carers. And their peers. How does a nation recover from these incidents?

I'm so sorry 😞

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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted

I found the sta

3 minutes ago, KSera said:

For sure, and I think I'll delete the anecdote part. I typically stay away from that and clearly pointed out that was not the case here. I saw earlier today that of mass shootings in the US since 1996, 164 were perpetrated by men and 4 by women.**

eta** not quite accurate. Corrected below

 

I found the statistics again and it's actually of 172 mass shootings since 1966, 4 were female. In two of those 4, the women acted alongside male accomplices. None of the K-12 shootings involved female shooters.

Now I'm seeing today's perpetrator was a transman not a transwoman, so who knows. So, so sad. And infuriating that this keeps happening over and over and over. And of course there are all the people saying the problem is there should have been more people with guns there.  Yeah, cause clearly the problem is America doesn't have enough guns 🤬.

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prairiewindmomma

prairiewindmomma

Posted
Posted

Regardless of whatever gender the shooter was, the reality is that assault style weapons were used.  No one outside of the military needs those.  If the perpetrator had only had access to a knife, there likely would have been fewer victims (both in number, and in that those attacked could have lived long enough for surgery/medical care).  Even if the weapon used had been of smaller caliber and smaller clip size, fewer people would have died.

 

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Melissa Louise

Melissa Louise

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

I wonder if maybe a new thread should be started.    I have no clue and am not trying to speak for her, but it’s possible Scout doesn’t want to see some of this current discussion right now.    Just a thought is all, not pointing fingers.  

Very fair.

Thank you for the gentle reminder.

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historically accurate

historically accurate

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Yes, the % is low. Having 50% of the population vanishingly unlikely to commit this type of crime is a benefit, regardless of gun laws. Any significant increase probably needs to be monitored and investigated, because it's not good.

Jeez, those poor 9 year olds. And of course, their teachers/principal/carers. And their peers. How does a nation recover from these incidents?

I'm so sorry 😞

We don't. We just watch the same reactions on replay over and over - there doesn't seem to be any recovery anymore before the next one happens.

 

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maize

maize

Posted
Posted (edited)

Scout, I am so, so sorry.

It sounds like you might know some of the victims since the school is associated with your church. I am heartbroken for your entire community and will be praying for you.

Edited by maize
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KSera

KSera

Posted
Posted

It strikes me this evening how the fact that your church is attached to this school makes the grieving all that much more difficult, as I'm sure people are unable to gather there now. And often when a school shooting happens, they end up tearing the school down and building a new one (I don't know what percentage of the time they do that vs clean and reopen the school though), but that's not likely to be an option with a church school. I'm very sorry for what your entire community is going through. My heart can't even really "go there" with what the parents and families who lost children and loved ones are dealing with tonight.

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ktgrok

ktgrok

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, lauraw4321 said:

The pastor of the church lost a daughter. 

Which means yes, Scout knows at least one of the victims personally. 

Scout, I'm praying for you and all involved, and sending love and peace to you from afar. Let us know how we can help. 

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