Dh’s Aunt died of covid and warning: unpopular opinion inside

[Ginevra]

I mentioned recently that she was hospitalized; she was 80+ years old. She was not vaccinated and neither were her (adult) children, who got covid as well. 
 

Of course they are all devastated, which is understandable. But the word I’ve heard in several separate covid death instances recently, that is rubbing me the wrong way is this: “shocked.” As in, “We are shocked by her death.” 
 

UNPOPULAR OPINION: 

When an 80+ year old, unvaccinated woman is hospitalized for COVID, it is *terribly sad,* but NOT shocking when she dies. I feel like this is due to the “COVID is no big deal” rhetoric and, when these poor family members experience this terrible outcome, it is “shocking” only because they have been believing the “no big deal” rhetoric. Literally was talking to dh about auntie last night and he was saying, “Well, she’s pretty healthy in general.” I’m like, Dude, the handwriting is on the wall…the *most likely* outcome is that she’s not gonna make it. He said, “Well 99% of people recover…” and I said, “Not when they’re 80 years old.” 
 

Anyway…it’s a sad situation and was almost certainly avoidable. I just wish a bunch of people would get this through their heads without burying relatives to learn it. 

[Pawz4me]

I'm sorry, Quill.

And I totally agree with you.

[kbutton]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

Of course they are all devastated, which is understandable. But the word I’ve heard in several separate covid death instances recently, that is rubbing me the wrong way is this: “shocked.” As in, “We are shocked by her death.” 

I read a comment recently on social media in regards to someone with Covid on a ventilator. This person was trying to be encouraging by saying that her DH and her parents had all been on a ventilator for Covid and recovered, so it was going to be okay. 

When did it become NORMAL and NO BIG DEAL to be placed on a ventilator and to have MULTIPLE family members experience this all in a short period of time?!? (excluding surgical breathing support or a major accident)

What is SHOCKING is how quickly people got used to the new normal and how they decided to sustain such high rates of the new, sad normal even when it can be prevented. 

I don't know how we move the needle back to a culture of supporting life-saving advances in public health. If people won't vaccinate and exercise some caution in a pandemic, they aren't going to accept universal vaccination to save a couple of hundred kids per year from a vaccine-preventable childhood illness. 

[Shoeless]

I'm so sorry, Quill. 

You are right; it is sad, but not exactly shocking. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

What's shocking is that people don't try to prevent it. 

[Katy]

I’m sorry, both for the loss and the stupidity. 

[prairiewindmomma]

If you haven’t prepared yourself emotionally, know that you are also likely to hear in those same circles that she died because she is old/had some other complicating factor or because the doctors did or didn’t do xyz. They resolve the cognitive dissonance of it all by blaming something else or with a general resignation that death was inevitable. I feel an incandescent rage when I hear such things so if you need time to brace yourself for such nonsense, I wanted to give you a heads up. 

[Pam in CT]

I am sorry, Quill.

 

What is shocking is where we've come to.  I don't know how we find our way back.

[Corraleno]

This is such a common pattern — months of FB posts full of misinformation and antivax memes, then "I tested positive, but it's just a mild cold," then "wow, covid is no joke, heading to the ER now," then "please pray, they say I may need to go on a ventilator." Then there's a series of updates from a relative with increasingly bad news, followed by the announcement that so-and-so got his/her angel wings (and here's link to the Go Fund Me), and then lots of posts from friends and relatives saying how shocked they are, this is so unexpected, this is so unfair, how could this happen??? The worst are the ones where they blame the HCWs for refusing to give horsewormer to someone who was prone, paralyzed, and unconscious, with tubes in every orifice, because that would have totally saved them. It's insane.

[Spryte]

I’m so sorry, Quill. 
 

I agree.

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes, it's tragic, not shocking. I'm so sorry. 

[Starr]

I had three elderly relatives die from Covid. I'm with you.

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, Starr said:

I had three elderly relatives die from Covid. I'm with you.

I am so sorry for your losses. 

[mommyoffive]

I am so sorry for your loss Quill.  

I agree with you 100%  

[gardenmom5]

I'm sorry for you loss.

 

ime: some people live in denial and like their rose colored glasses.  My mother died years ago, but my sister kept insisting she was in good health at 78.  (She was in poor health, with a list of illnesses.)

[Kassia]

46 minutes ago, Katy said:

I’m sorry, both for the loss and the stupidity. 

This is exactly what I wanted to say.  I'm sorry, Quill.

[SeaConquest]

You know what else is not shocking? There's a reason why employers can't fill jobs that has nothing to do with extended unemployment. It's called 750k dead people. Lots of them worked. And now they don't. Why are people surprised that the loss of 750K Americans has an impact on our economy?

ETA: I am very sorry for your loss, Quill.

Edited October 28, 2021 by SeaConquest

[rebcoola]

I am sorry Quill and yes tragic possibly preventable but not shocking.

[goldberry]

I agree with you.  It's so frustrating. Even healthy people at 80 can go very quickly from a variety of illnesses.  I'm more shocked when anyone over 80 actually SURVIVES Covid.  My mother, 88 years old with dementia...was asymptomatic.  Not even fatigued.  Now that was shocking!

[wathe]

I'm sorry Quill

"Dissonance" has become my word of the year, I think.  

[Guest]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If you haven’t prepared yourself emotionally, know that you are also likely to hear in those same circles that she died because she is old/had some other complicating factor or because the doctors did or didn’t do xyz. They resolve the cognitive dissonance of it all by blaming something else or with a general resignation that death was inevitable. I feel an incandescent rage when I hear such things so if you need time to brace yourself for such nonsense, I wanted to give you a heads up. 

Sadly, I think that is true; I am likely to hear that. I already had heard a similar thing about the hospital forbidding them for seeing her (they were covid +) and how “depriving her” of the comfort of family would make her more likely not to survive. 
But thank you for reminding me because I do think you’re right. 

[Lady Florida.]

I'm sorry Quill. It's very sad but not at all shocking.

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

He said, “Well 99% of people recover…” and I said, “Not when they’re 80 years old.” 

I think a huge part of the problem is that the people who quote that figure do not understand that it represents an average across the entire population, and that the actual odds for any given person will vary dramatically depending on age and comorbidities. They seem to think that every person who catches it has an equal 99% chance of survival, so they're shocked when someone they know ends up in the 1% — as if dying from covid is just really bad luck that randomly happens to some people. It's crazy how often people who are in their 40s/50s/60s and seriously obese, who likely have other comorbidities like diabetes and hypertension as well, post memes about how only brainwashed sheeple would be afraid of a disease with a 99% survival rate, completely oblivious to the fact that their own odds are way lower than that. 

[Guest]

Yes, @Corraleno, I agree with a general misunderstanding of data. Or, as I said to one friend, “Well, one percent of 330 million people is still a f-ton of people.” Not that I’m much of a mathematician. 

[Carrie12345]

I’m sorry for your loss.

Im shocked by their shock. I’m used to “It’s survivable... for the young and healthy.” I haven’t heard people being so clueless about the elderly.

[TechWife]

I am sorry for your loss, Quill.

It's sad, not shocking.

[TravelingChris]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

You know what else is not shocking? There's a reason why employers can't fill jobs that has nothing to do with extended unemployment. It's called 750k dead people. Lots of them worked. And now they don't. Why are people surprised that the loss of 750K Americans has an impact on our economy?

ETA: I am very sorry for your loss, Quill.

I was saying that to my dh today.  Because this year's dead tended to be under 65 and actually a lot were 40's and 50's.  I was telling him that about truck driver shortages.  Not only do we have 750K dead, but how many have either developed such severe damage they can no longer work or all the people in their later 50s or under 65 who just decided they do not want to keep working while death could be around any corner (as the pandemic has shown a lot of people- it was always true, but lots refused to believe it).

No, it is not shocking that an unvaccinated 85 yo dies.  Immunity is much, much lower in that age group and bad COVID is so hard on anyone's body but particularly, a person of that kind of age.

I am sorry for your loss, Quill

[Wheres Toto]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

You know what else is not shocking? There's a reason why employers can't fill jobs that has nothing to do with extended unemployment. It's called 750k dead people. Lots of them worked. And now they don't. Why are people surprised that the loss of 750K Americans has an impact on our economy?

ETA: I am very sorry for your loss, Quill.

I just pointed this out to someone the other day.  It hadn't even occurred to them. 

[SoCal_Bear]

2 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

You know what else is not shocking? There's a reason why employers can't fill jobs that has nothing to do with extended unemployment. It's called 750k dead people. Lots of them worked. And now they don't. Why are people surprised that the loss of 750K Americans has an impact on our economy?

ETA: I am very sorry for your loss, Quill.

Not to mention the millions who are unable to work because of long Covid....

Edited October 28, 2021 by calbear

[Faith-manor]

I am so sorry, Quill!

And I absolutely understand. People around here have this same attitude. It makes me want to smack 'em up back of the head while saying, "Duh!" but of course I am civilized and don't. I just think it!

Nearly 750,000 gone, probably another 2 million with long covid, and parents out of the workforce because, like my area, schools are constantly shutting down because of covid outbreaks and the idiots cannot figure out why no-one is standing in line to drive trucks, and work at the hardware store, or make their tacos, except "lazy on unemployment"! Rational thought is now so rare it is apparently a superpower!

[BlsdMama]

People, as a whole, are shocked by death. Despite pretty much every human ever, consistently dying at some point, people tend to be surprised that it happens.  It’s very odd. Part of me wonders if it is purely culturally? Or were people generally usually surprised by death? I have to think no because both of my sets of grandparents bought a third grave plot as they never expected to raise all of their children to adulthood.

[DreamerGirl]

I am sorry for your family's loss @Quill 

 

[Corraleno]

The current CDC figures for total "excess deaths," including covid, are even higher — around 850,000.

Add the 50K or so currently hospitalized for covid, and all the people still recovering or with long covid, plus parents who can't work because their usual child care providers (grandparents, other relatives, or paid providers) are sick or died or just don't want to be exposed, plus people who were laid off when the pandemic first hit who either found other means of support or decided to tighten their belts and get by on one income or just live on retirement income, plus people who are high risk and don't want the exposure of working in restaurants, grocery stores, and other public facing jobs, plus people who recently quit their jobs because they were being treating like crap by businesses who dealt with being short-handed by demanding that existing workers work longer hours with less predictable shifts and less time off, etc...

[Faith-manor]

19 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

The current CDC figures for total "excess deaths," including covid, are even higher — around 850,000.

Add the 50K or so currently hospitalized for covid, and all the people still recovering or with long covid, plus parents who can't work because their usual child care providers (grandparents, other relatives, or paid providers) are sick or died or just don't want to be exposed, plus people who were laid off when the pandemic first hit who either found other means of support or decided to tighten their belts and get by on one income or just live on retirement income, plus people who are high risk and don't want the exposure of working in restaurants, grocery stores, and other public facing jobs, plus people who recently quit their jobs because they were being treating like crap by businesses who dealt with being short-handed by demanding that existing workers work longer hours with less predictable shifts and less time off, etc...

Bingo!

The pandemic has brought many issues into specific relief, but people still get mad and want the status quo maintained. Sigh.

[Tanaqui]

And then there's the people who looked around and said "Okay, I haven't gotten Covid, but why should I keep working bad hours for low pay when it's clear my employer doesn't care if I live or die? Why not look for another job where they are willing to do the bare minimum to keep their workers alive, and also pay a living wage?"

[Shoeless]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Nearly 750,000 gone, probably another 2 million with long covid, and parents out of the workforce because, like my area, schools are constantly shutting down because of covid outbreaks and the idiots cannot figure out why no-one is standing in line to drive trucks, and work at the hardware store, or make their tacos, except "lazy on unemployment"! Rational thought is now so rare it is apparently a superpower!

People keep saying this, and it makes it obvious they don't know how unemployment works. Or that there's a limit to how long you can claim.  Haven't the pandemic unemployment benefits run out by now?

Like, you don't just tell the state "Not working, IDK, cuz laaaaaazy, lol", and they say "Ok" and give you money for the rest of your days, no questions asked.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

People keep saying this, and it makes it obvious they don't know how unemployment works. Or that there's a limit to how long you can claim.  Haven't the pandemic unemployment benefits run out by now?

Like, you don't just tell the state "Not working, IDK, cuz laaaaaazy, lol", and they say "Ok" and give you money for the rest of your days, no questions asked.

No but there *are* people defrauding the unemployment system and that has increased a ton in the pandemic. I have a file sitting right here beside me with 17 fake claims for unemployment on our company. One was actually in my name and *someone* did manage to get $400+ on my identity last year. And (maybe this was my state specifically?) people filing for UE for several months last year got $600 bonus payments - I forget if that was per week or month or what, but it does seem to be true that *some* people found UE more worthwhile than working, for at least several month to a year. 

[Elizabeth86]

It’s insane. My bil recently passed from neurological damage caused by covid. He beat the sickness,  but it left him unable to walk, have control of bodily function, eat and drink properly or even know who people were. He wasn’t even 60. He had a few health problems, but no doubt if he had the vaccine, he would have a chance. Yet, there was a funeral home full of maskless and vaccineless people. It feels like a bad dream where no one is doing anything that makes sense and you feel frustrated and helpless. I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again, 2020 was the good times when things made sense, everyone in 2021 has lost their minds. 
 

I am sorry for your loss.

[BusyMom5]

I'm sorry for your loss.  My grandparents are in their 80s and I will not be shocked by their deaths at any time, even though they are in very good health.  Death past 80 should not be described as shocking, it should be celebrated as a long life well lived.  Even before Covid, many died in their 60s and 70s.  What I am more concerned about are the 40s and 50s I've been seeing lately.   Those people had so much more life to live, and often still kids to raise.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Death of an otherwise healthy person is shocking no matter the age. People can live vibrant productive lives even into their 90’s.
 

I was just talking with a 92 year old neighbor who was up on her ladder pruning her grapes. She is my role model for vibrant living.  My dad was preaching until he was 90- actual sermons that would put some younger preachers who download their sermons off the internet, to shame.   And yet I know people in their 50’s who are stagnant (and I have had to fight against this in myself).   
 

I had to fight with dh’s family who were letting their elders “die with dignity “. Only they really weren’t. It was neglect. Death from Covid is not peaceful. Death from uncontrolled illness like diabetes (and other conditions I have seen up close) are not dignified and not peaceful. Yes, some will die despite vaccination and mitigation and good immune systems. But there is no excuse for throwing up our hands and going “oh well.”  
 

 

[Robin M]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Quill. Hugs and prayers winging your way. 

It's not shocking when they ignore all the warnings. My sister and her adult children. Oh we are too healthy, take all our vitamins,, etc. Yep, they got it and my nephew is now home from the hospital after almost not making it, on oxygen still.  Very hard to be sympathetic when they knew the risks.

[Robin M]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I was just talking with a 92 year old neighbor who was up on her ladder pruning her grapes. She is my role model for vibrant living.  My dad was preaching until he was 90- actual sermons that would put some younger preachers who download their sermons off the internet, to shame.   And yet I know people in their 50’s who are stagnant (and I have had to fight against this in myself).   

That's awesome.  My 91 year old dad is still doing 10,000 steps a day and working at the city food bank and enjoying hanging out with his girlfriend.  And Saturday we'll be celebrating our neighborhood grandfather of the block who is turning 100 and still works in his garden

[ealp2009]

I agree.  It is really not shocking at all when any 80+ year old dies.   Absolutely sad, but not unexpected.   Life expectancy in the US is about 78.   And if you are 80 and you get Covid your chance of dying is about 12% and it obviously goes up with other risk factors.  I am very sorry for your loss and the unfortunate circumstances.  I hope this death encourages some people to take the vaccine.  

[chiguirre]

I'm sorry Quill.

 

I thought I'd throw in another vaccine testimony. My 87 yo FIL survived Covid with just one shot of Sputnik V. He was sick and needed a nurse and an oxygen concentrator for about a week, but he didn't need to be hospitalized. We were bracing for the worst, but even a half dose of the lamest of the available vaccines can make a big difference.

[busymama7]

I have a mom friend who lost her husband this summer to covid, leaving two high school age kids and spent time in the hospital herself due to it.  She is still completely against the vaccine and won't even consider getting it at some point down the road when her "natural" immunity wears off.   She is convinced that the immunity will last years because it did for the original SARS (?is that the right acronym) virus. She can't be convinced otherwise although I didn't try much because I was trying to be gentle and compassionate because she just lost her husband. She brought up the vaccine not me but I didn't argue just stated that there are lots of people who have gotten it more than once already.   It makes me crazy. 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, busymama7 said:

I have a mom friend who lost her husband this summer to covid, leaving two high school age kids and spent time in the hospital herself due to it.  She is still completely against the vaccine and won't even consider getting it at some point down the road when her "natural" immunity wears off.   She is convinced that the immunity will last years because it did for the original SARS (?is that the right acronym) virus. She can't be convinced otherwise although I didn't try much because I was trying to be gentle and compassionate because she just lost her husband. She brought up the vaccine not me but I didn't argue just stated that there are lots of people who have gotten it more than once already.   It makes me crazy. 

This is where it’s really difficult for me to understand. 
We had a client in the firm who was wearing a mask; I said she was welcome to wear it if she wished but we are all vaccinated so it’s optional. She said she is not vaxxed herself and would keep it on. Her mom died of COVID; that’s why she was at the firm in the first place; stuff to do with the estate. That’s just really nuts to me. 

[Shoeless]

4 hours ago, Quill said:

No but there *are* people defrauding the unemployment system and that has increased a ton in the pandemic. I have a file sitting right here beside me with 17 fake claims for unemployment on our company. One was actually in my name and *someone* did manage to get $400+ on my identity last year. And (maybe this was my state specifically?) people filing for UE for several months last year got $600 bonus payments - I forget if that was per week or month or what, but it does seem to be true that *some* people found UE more worthwhile than working, for at least several month to a year. 

Fraud and laziness are two different things, though. There was fraud prior to the pandemic, and maybe the extra payments incentivized people who were already leaning toward breaking the law anyway.  

If I had a choice between crappy, public facing job with mediocre pay during a pandemic Or staying home and getting UE that was equal or *better* than what I made at the crappy job? I'd be a fool to go to work. 

[sassenach]

10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

This is such a common pattern — months of FB posts full of misinformation and antivax memes, then "I tested positive, but it's just a mild cold," then "wow, covid is no joke, heading to the ER now," then "please pray, they say I may need to go on a ventilator." Then there's a series of updates from a relative with increasingly bad news, followed by the announcement that so-and-so got his/her angel wings (and here's link to the Go Fund Me), and then lots of posts from friends and relatives saying how shocked they are, this is so unexpected, this is so unfair, how could this happen??? The worst are the ones where they blame the HCWs for refusing to give horsewormer to someone who was prone, paralyzed, and unconscious, with tubes in every orifice, because that would have totally saved them. It's insane.

There’s a whole Reddit dedicated to this pattern- Herman Cain Award. 

[klmama]

This response to death isn't new or just related to COVID.  A friend's dh is a coroner, and he's been in a lot of homes to declare people dead.  PRE-COVID, the overwhelmingly common theme was family members being absolutely shocked that their elderly, ill relatives actually died.  Like somehow, it wasn't going to happen to them.  The thing with COVID is it's become so public and so common.  But the emotional response is the same.  It's just really hard for some people to face that death is real and it's coming for everyone, including them and those they love.  

[Frances]

47 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

Fraud and laziness are two different things, though. There was fraud prior to the pandemic, and maybe the extra payments incentivized people who were already leaning toward breaking the law anyway.  

That and that most state unemployment agencies were completely overwhelmed, so it was far easier to get away with fraud. Some modified or eliminated some of their normal procedures in order to get money out the door faster. Some are still in catch up mode. And many of the thieves are not even based in the US. Like tax fraud, much originates internationally.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Frances