What would you have done, do you think?

[Boymama5]

Her response was quite over the top. Even if I did not think there was any danger with the bag being there, just because of my shy personality, I’d still go to security. I’m the type to forget things and if I didn’t remember where I left it, then I’d go to security to ask if it had been turned in. And I’d also not want to touch it because of responses like hers. 
 

what you did was also reasonable. I’m assuming tone was calm and therefore would have thought you were just trying to help. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Snip from the Smithsonian site.  I would be extremely surprised if any of this wasn't posted at the entrances as well.  Bolding is mine. 

"At many of our museums, you'll be greeted upon entry by one of our security personnel who will conduct a thorough hand-check of all bags, briefcases, purses, and containers. We encourage you to limit the number of personal belongings and bags you bring into our facilities as they will be subject to a thorough search. Limiting the items you bring will increase your speed through security checkpoints.

Visitors are required to walk through a metal detector at the following museums: 

• Air and Space Museum and its Udvar-Hazy Center (DC and VA)
• African American History and Culture Museum
• American Art Museum
• American History Museum
• Natural History Museum
• Portrait Gallery
• Postal Museum
• American Indian Museums (DC and NY)

Those who are unable to go through the metal detector will be hand-screened with an electronic wand by security personnel. Bag checks will be conducted by hand or via an X-ray machine.

We ask for your patience, cooperation, and assistance in keeping America's treasures safe.

Visitors should not leave personal belongings unattended, nor leave them stored at one museum while visiting other sites."

[Carrie12345]

The lady’s response would tick me off more than anything.

My nowhere little airport just got an explosives bag the other day. Don’t try telling me things are overblown. (No pun intended.)

[Harriet Vane]

With the number of mass shootings and history of bombing (Boston Marathon? Or the bomb Richard Jewel found?), that woman’s response is outrageous. Noting an unattended bag as a concern is appropriate.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, her reaction really reads like she WANTED to cause panic/ drama.  

Or was annoyed because this was the 4th time it had happned today because she kept insisting on setting the bag down. 

2 hours ago, GoVanGogh said:

We were in Paris twice and impacted by similar situations. First time, the entire metro system was shut down for an abandoned suitcase. It ended up being harmless, tourist had accidentally left it behind. But they take abandoned bags quite seriously over there. Another trip, there was an abandoned bag near one of their museums we were at and same protocol. Total shutdown and evacuation of the area. I would think the Smithsonian would react similarly. 

Given that I managed to leave my pillow in a hotel lobby yesterday, and have lost my purse more times than I can mention, I would cause havoc in Europe. ADHD meds help, but even still I left my phone in random places in stores I think twice last year, and well, there was the pillow incident yesterday, lol. 

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, saraha said:

We had an interesting experience at Disney a few years ago...We decided there was a secret passage somewhere nearby. And of course we kept track and never saw another security guard the rest of the day! 🤷🏼‍♀️

Disney is wild like that. We were at a Disney resort, eating at an outdoor restaurant, when it occurred to me that although there were wild birds around the tables, and, indeed, around the whole outside area, I never saw bird poo anywhere AND I never saw anyone cleaning it up! Secret passages, magic, who knows? 🙂

[Terabith]

Disney absolutely is catacombed with secret passageways.  

[Idalou]

I'm going to guess the OP's description of a political baseball cap explains a heck of a lot with this lady. We recently went to two art galleries in Rochester. Both asked us to leave all bags behind their desk or in the free lockers. It's nothing new. The pathetic woman probably has acted similarly to encounters with masked people. 

Edit to add- is it normal for a Smithsonian to profile people to determine who needs to go through the metal detectors, as the OP stated? If so, how? Does that mean people with bags actually were sent through them?

Edited March 5, 2023 by Idalou

[Starr]

4 hours ago, El... said:

I'm a military veteran with training in trying to prevent bad things from happening. I deployed after 2001. It was in a museum gallery about native American military service. My brain did indeed go right to "Oh crap." I was mentally preparing to help evacuate that building very, very quickly.  I was experiencing adrenaline. I don't look like anyone important, though...I'm just a middle aged mom with kids and a little bit of extra body mass. 🙃 I smiled and worked on disengaging.

My experience with military vets of your generation including my much younger brother is that they would all react as you did. And it’s also the rules. I’m surprised she got it inside.

[YaelAldrich]

Lived in and visit Israel and Jewish synagogues and such all the time. You better believe I look for stuff like that! Having someone get cranky for my asking if the bag belongs to anyone would make me even more grumpy and let them know they are being a 💩.

I'll do it politely but I will get a security person on the scene ASAP.

There are to many "theys" who wish to do people like me (Black, Asian, Jewish, woman) harm so I'll go with wary every day. It doesn't affect where I go or do but it makes me a lot more aware. 

Edited March 5, 2023 by YaelAldrich

[J-rap]

OP, I think you handled it well and that the woman definitely overreacted.  Even if she was planning to keep doing it, she could have said "Thanks for the reminder" just to be polite.

As for your original question, I believe I would have called attention to it to a security guard, but I would not have been concerned that it was really a danger.  I'd say I'm pretty observant to my surroundings, while at the same time I usually don't suspect the worst.  Still, the responsible thing would be to at least notify a guard or staff, because you never know.

Edited March 6, 2023 by J-rap

[Melissa Louise]

OP handled things well.

I would have found a security guard, because living in the UK during a period when there were IRA attacks, it was drilled into me to immediately draw attention to unattended luggage. I would assume that someone had put it down while browsing the gallery, but no harm in having security check.

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Idalou said:

I'm going to guess the OP's description of a political baseball cap explains a heck of a lot with this lady. We recently went to two art galleries in Rochester. Both asked us to leave all bags behind their desk or in the free lockers. It's nothing new. The pathetic woman probably has acted similarly to encounters with masked people. 

And if she's married, she's probably married to someone who wants to carry a gun everywhere for protection. 🙄 

 

[Laura Corin]

31 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

OP handled things well.

I would have found a security guard, because living in the UK during a period when there were IRA attacks, it was drilled into me to immediately draw attention to unattended luggage. I would assume that someone had put it down while browsing the gallery, but no harm in having security check.

Yes. My awareness is heightened, as parcel bombs were a threat throughout much of my childhood and early adulthood in England.

I remember when my brother in law came to stay with us in London in the early 90s, he commented on the amount of litter and wondered why he could never find a litter bin. Many had been removed, especially on The Tube, because it was so easy to conceal bombs in them.

[happi duck]

I can't imagine anyone thinking it's fine to leave an unattended bag.  (Accidentally leaving it behind is a different thing.)

[Spryte]

I keep thinking about this thread. OP, you did the right thing, and the woman was OTT. She would have made me angry, but I would have handled it the same way you did. (And I’d be stewing about her for a while.)

It’s against Smithsonian policy to leave unattended bags. Period. Doesn’t matter what that individual thinks about living in fear or anything else. In addition to the scary bomb type issue, that bag could have had innocent-seeming items that could be used to vandalize museum pieces. I’m thinking of tomato soup, super glue, etc. We were in EU museums soon after the soup incidents, and this was a huge deal. (In fact, one of our flights was delayed because people were superglued to the runway. Not a museum, but clearly this stuff happens.)

[GoVanGogh]

2 hours ago, ktgrok said:

Or was annoyed because this was the 4th time it had happned today because she kept insisting on setting the bag down. 

Given that I managed to leave my pillow in a hotel lobby yesterday, and have lost my purse more times than I can mention, I would cause havoc in Europe. ADHD meds help, but even still I left my phone in random places in stores I think twice last year, and well, there was the pillow incident yesterday, lol. 

I have adhd and ocd. Odd mix. But when we travel, I constantly count bags. We generally travel with carry on luggage, two for each of us. So I am forever counting 2-4-6, okay, we are good. Once at a hotel and just out for the day, we have maybe 1 or 2 bags. (My purse and one backpack.) I still count. People probably think I am weird. I am also the overplanner, but that has saved us many times when DS has randomly needed to puke. I always know exactly where a few small trash bags are in the backpack. 

[ktgrok]

41 minutes ago, happi duck said:

I can't imagine anyone thinking it's fine to leave an unattended bag.  (Accidentally leaving it behind is a different thing.)

I could see me being clueless, and being tired of carrying something, and setting it down for a minute while I looked at some paintings or what not, from a few feet away. But I wouldn't be a jerk about it if someone asked whose bag it was. I'd just grab it and say, "oh, sorry, that's mine. It's heavy and I just set it down for a minute." Not go off on the person!

[Terabith]

Just now, ktgrok said:

I could see me being clueless, and being tired of carrying something, and setting it down for a minute while I looked at some paintings or what not, from a few feet away. But I wouldn't be a jerk about it if someone asked whose bag it was. I'd just grab it and say, "oh, sorry, that's mine. It's heavy and I just set it down for a minute." Not go off on the person!

Yeah, I can totally understand someone putting something down.  I mean, obviously it’s not GOOD, but I think it’s very understandable.  Where it became being a jerk was her response.  A normal person who set down the diaper bag would be like, “Oh, I am so sorry!  That’s mine; it just got heavy and I set it down for a minute.  I’m so sorry for causing alarm!”

[Acadie]

No idea if there's an unattended bag stunt going around in her circles, but I also don't think there needs to be. That sort of response is the same genre that gets pulled out for all sorts of occasions. 

[SKL]

Putting a bag down is nothing to apologize for, unless it is impeding someone’s movements.

Given that the museum asks people not to leave articles unattended … and assuming the lady knew the policy, which is unclear… she was still in the same room.

if the concern was that she might have vandalism tools in there, having it on her person should have been more alarming.

I think it is a bit bizarre the way some people are talking about bags here.

[KSera]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think it is a bit bizarre the way some people are talking about bags here.

See, and I think it's insensitive to not have understanding for the valid reasons many people feel that way. This isn't like a razor blades in apples kind of fear, it's something that actually happens and there is good reason places have rules regarding unattended bags and ask people to report them. Bombs in unattended bags is an actual thing, not a made up scare tactic.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, J-rap said:

OP, I think you handled it well and that the woman definitely overreacted.  Even if she was planning to keep doing it, she could have said "Thanks for the reminder" just to be polite.

As for your original question, I believe I would have called attention to it to a security guard, but I would not have been concerned that it was really a danger.  I'd say I'm pretty observant to my surroundings, while at the same time I usually don't suspect the worse.  Still, the responsible thing would be to at least notify a guard or staff, because you never know.

I agree with your post including not being too alarmed but still alerting security. OP, this is the one place where I personally would deviate from what you did. I actually think that it’s the job of security to assess whether the bag was a threat, including possibly calling out to the other guests in the gallery. The reason is because people can overreact even more than this “special snowflake “ did. 

[Kuovonne]

7 hours ago, El... said:

 

I was between my kid sitting near the suitcase and one in the bathroom, so I couldn't walk away.

 

Thanks for this added info. Since there was no security or other staff member in the room, and you were not at liberty to immediately leave the room, that changes things slightly. 
 

I think that I would take a picture of the bag as evidence/proof. Depending on the ages and genders of the kids, I would tell the kid with me about the unattended bag and go hurry along the kid in the bathroom, and then go as a group to find security or some other staff member to tell. I would show security or the staff member the photo. I would take the photo even if there were rules about no photography allowed (because there would be no security to yell at me), but I might not show the photo to security if there were rules about no photos.

Even if the owner of the bag was in the room, I would consider the bag to be unattended. I tend to have a fairly restrictive idea of “attended” though. In general, when I’m a public venue full of strangers, a bag needs to be within arm’s reach and/or a clear line of sight of its owner for me to consider it attended. On occasion, a bag might be slightly further for a few seconds, but not for several minutes. For me, the primary purpose of keeping bags attended is to avoid forgetting them or having them stolen.

Depending of the venue, unattended bags do not worry me. For example, unattended belongings are fairly common at a park, beach, etc.

7 hours ago, El... said:

She came toward me, repeated herself several times, told me I needed to learn this, and spoke loudly.

This is why I would not ask the room. I don’t want to engage with a stranger who might become hostile, especially when you already know that the stranger does not respect the rules to keep bags attended. 
 

Edited March 5, 2023 by Kuovonne

[prairiewindmomma]

I would have reacted much as you, I think.

We were at the pool recently when it went into lockdown due to a police situation very near by. Dd had finished her practice but we couldn’t leave. We scouted for a place to camp out in the building where we weren’t at risk of getting hit by a stray bullet. That’s our normal. It would very much not be normal for my mom. It wouldn’t cross her mind to do that. I think your past experiences and knowledge shape you, and I don’t know that that’s a bad thing. But, I think it shapes some of the varied responses you are seeing.

For me, I would report an unattended bag and I would have left the area, probably for a different museum near by with the hopes of finishing up my tour of the original museum later in the day. 

[prairiewindmomma]

46 minutes ago, SKL said:

Putting a bag down is nothing to apologize for, unless it is impeding someone’s movements.

 

Putting a bag at your feet while you rest on a bench is one thing. Putting a bag down and walking 20 feet away, where it is out of your immediate control, is another.

[Harriet Vane]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Putting a bag at your feet while you rest on a bench is one thing. Putting a bag down and walking 20 feet away, where it is out of your immediate control, is another.

Yes. This. It is a sad reality of the world we live in.

[Moonhawk]

32 minutes ago, SKL said:

Putting a bag down is nothing to apologize for, unless it is impeding someone’s movements.

Given that the museum asks people not to leave articles unattended … and assuming the lady knew the policy, which is unclear… she was still in the same room.

if the concern was that she might have vandalism tools in there, having it on her person should have been more alarming.

I think it is a bit bizarre the way some people are talking about bags here.

I mean, being in the same room is not the same as attending your articles. She wasn't with her bag. If she WAS with the bag, OP wouldn't have had to ask [multiple times] whose bag it was. If you left your bag next to a bench in a public gallery, a large room with multiple people milling about, so that you can look at the art, I assume you aren't also watching your bag while looking at the art. 

She was breaking the stated rules [which are also common sense and known generally in our culture] and got called out. OP didn't call her a terrorist, and she's the one who made the jump to bringing that up, which means she knows what she was doing, what a perceived unattended bag brings up, and what the reaction would be. She could have reacted in a myriad of ways, and chooses to go on the offensive after breaking the rules. Again, regardless of the level of threat, her actions were not something worth defending.

 

[Jaybee]

I wouldn't say I am exactly hyper-vigilant, but I am vigilant. After years of traveling overseas and through numerous airports, riding on trains, etc., I am very aware of what is around me. I taught my kids (some with more success than others) to be so as well. Some of the places we lived, if you looked like you were not paying close attention, you were much more vulnerable to be taken advantage of. We were mindful of keeping bags with us, not hanging a bag or purse over the back of a chair, etc. Once, many years ago, I was in an airport where it was obvious we were the foreigners, as well as a couple of young men of our same nationality. They were not paying attention to their bags and tickets/passports, standing loosely in a line with their bags several steps behind them. The mom in me said something to them about being aware of their things. They obviously thought I was really weird and over the top, and kind of laughed at me. However, I considered my duty done and left. I had lived in the country for a number of years, and it was obvious they were just passing through. It would have been quite easy for someone to pick up one of their bags and take it off, with their not seeing a thing. All that to say, yes, I would have notified security or something. It's common travel knowledge to not leave bags unattended.

[Pam in CT]

re range of situational awareness

9 hours ago, Garga said:

I had a government job in a government building and they drilled into us, “If you leave a bag or briefcase anywhere, we will pick it up, take it to a field, and blow it up. Don’t leave your stuff around. If you see a bag or briefcase somewhere, let security know. We will pick it up, take it to a field, and blow it up.” ..

Yeah, I briefly worked in an overseas federal position, and also have spent time in Israel. And attend synogogues in NYC with metal detectors. And my son was (sleeping away) in the Jewish fraternity within a mile of the Tree of Life shooting when it happened and it took hours before we reached him; and a mosque in New Haven was set on fire by an "incendiary device" a few years ago; and following the morning when the 2020 elections were called my daughter's boarding school got a series of called in threats promising to bomb the black / Jewish / Muslim centers and/or shoot any such students on sight if they tried to cross the street.

So, yeah, I do notice unattended bags and I do take them seriously.  It doesn't stop me from living my life, going to a wider range of places  and seeking out a wider range of experiences than many. But if I see something, yeah, I say something.

 

And it does appear from the response of the bag owner...

7 hours ago, El... said:

I was between my kid sitting near the suitcase and one in the bathroom, so I couldn't walk away. The bag was between two armchairs and almost concealed. There were no staff in the room. It was a fairly small gallery, so I asked the room, twice, "Whose suitcase is this?" 

On my second call, a woman about 15 feet down the gallery answered, "It's mine." I smiled and said, "Oh, good! I was worried it might be an unattended bag." And then she told me, loudly and repeatedly, that it "irritates" her when people "react like that." She told me that the world isn't "like that," that "they" want me to be afraid, and I should stop being afraid. I said, "Well, that's one way to look at it." 

She came toward me, repeated herself several times, told me I needed to learn this, and spoke loudly. She was slightly older than me, but not my mother's age. She was dressed as a tourist, and was wearing a political ball cap.

There were metal detectors, but the guards weren't putting everyone through them, just profiling. And I don't think there were lockers available. 

Thrre were 6 or 8 other people in the room, mostly middle aged and mostly women. They looked up briefly, then averted their eyes from her reaction. 

I'm a military veteran with training in trying to prevent bad things from happening. I deployed after 2001. It was in a museum gallery about native American military service. My brain did indeed go right to "Oh crap." I was mentally preparing to help evacuate that building very, very quickly.  I was experiencing adrenaline. I don't look like anyone important, though...I'm just a middle aged mom with kids and a little bit of extra body mass. 🙃 I smiled and worked on disengaging.

I asked my thoughtful 11yo ds what he thought afterward, and he said I did fine and was respectful. (That's his standard of right behavior, apparently.)

I was surprised that she took offense at my concern. I didn't ask whom she meant by "they." 

All ended well enough; my kid came out of the bathroom and we left. I'm still thinking about the gap between my perception of the world and hers, though.

... that she was looking to provoke.

 

 

re how expectation of "respect" and deeply ingrained deference can inhibit people, but predominantly women and children, from doing what is appropriate in potentially dangerous situations

7 hours ago, Halftime Hope said:

...If this had just played out in my family, I think I'd mull it over and, later, have a talk with my kids about people not always deserving respect. I have experienced in myself and seen that many women (and children!) default to respect, kindness and not wanting to hurt people, or to hurt them the least amount possible. It has taken me two dangerous situations to learn that full-on Bear Mode is appropriate, and having it too deeply buried can cost me time and options. I think this is especially important training for kids -- society deeply ingrains deference into kids.

 

7 hours ago, El... said:

Yes. I'm thinking about that for DS11.  Respect isn't the moral standard in a dangerous situation. I'm going to discuss that nuance with him.

The only parenting book I ever asked my husband to read is The Gift of Fear.

 

re you need to learn... the world isn't like that... "they" want you to be afraid

6 hours ago, Quill said:

Yes, or it’s a political stunt. I can imagine people with fringe ideology doing that intentionally as backlash against the “see something, say something” thing. ...

Sigh.

Perhaps it was purely coincidental that this little drama took place in

Quote

...It was in a museum gallery about native American military service...

But also, maybe not. Given the provacateur response of Bag Lady, which is the sole data point we have about her from this story... it seems a bit out of character that she'd be interested in such an exhibit.

[easypeasy]

8 hours ago, El... said:

I was between my kid sitting near the suitcase and one in the bathroom, so I couldn't walk away. The bag was between two armchairs and almost concealed. There were no staff in the room. It was a fairly small gallery, so I asked the room, twice, "Whose suitcase is this?" 

On my second call, a woman about 15 feet down the gallery answered, "It's mine." I smiled and said, "Oh, good! I was worried it might be an unattended bag." And then she told me, loudly and repeatedly, that it "irritates" her when people "react like that." She told me that the world isn't "like that," that "they" want me to be afraid, and I should stop being afraid. I said, "Well, that's one way to look at it."

YOU handled it well and SHE sounds like a loon (which, even more so indicates the wisdom of alerting a security guard to unattended bags, imho!)

[Ellie]

8 hours ago, El... said:

I was between my kid sitting near the suitcase and one in the bathroom, so I couldn't walk away. The bag was between two armchairs and almost concealed. There were no staff in the room. It was a fairly small gallery, so I asked the room, twice, "Whose suitcase is this?" 

On my second call, a woman about 15 feet down the gallery answered, "It's mine." I smiled and said, "Oh, good! I was worried it might be an unattended bag." And then she told me, loudly and repeatedly, that it "irritates" her when people "react like that." She told me that the world isn't "like that," that "they" want me to be afraid, and I should stop being afraid. I said, "Well, that's one way to look at it." 

She came toward me, repeated herself several times, told me I needed to learn this, and spoke loudly. She was slightly older than me, but not my mother's age. She was dressed as a tourist, and was wearing a political ball cap.

There were metal detectors, but the guards weren't putting everyone through them, just profiling. And I don't think there were lockers available. 

Thrre were 6 or 8 other people in the room, mostly middle aged and mostly women. They looked up briefly, then averted their eyes from her reaction. 

I'm a military veteran with training in trying to prevent bad things from happening. I deployed after 2001. It was in a museum gallery about native American military service. My brain did indeed go right to "Oh crap." I was mentally preparing to help evacuate that building very, very quickly.  I was experiencing adrenaline. I don't look like anyone important, though...I'm just a middle aged mom with kids and a little bit of extra body mass. 🙃 I smiled and worked on disengaging.

I asked my thoughtful 11yo ds what he thought afterward, and he said I did fine and was respectful. (That's his standard of right behavior, apparently.)

I was surprised that she took offense at my concern. I didn't ask whom she meant by "they." 

All ended well enough; my kid came out of the bathroom and we left. I'm still thinking about the gap between my perception of the world and hers, though.

Possibly this woman wasn't in America on 9/11, and has not flown on any airline from any American airport. Also, even my church says "If you see something, say something" on a regular basis, as part of training to be a leader of any kind. You were right and she was wrong. I'm glad nothing came of if, and also I hope you'll still say something if you see something next time. 🙂

[J-rap]

3 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

Yes. My awareness is heightened, as parcel bombs were a threat throughout much of my childhood and early adulthood in England.

I remember when my brother in law came to stay with us in London in the early 90s, he commented on the amount of litter and wondered why he could never find a litter bin. Many had been removed, especially on The Tube, because it was so easy to conceal bombs in them.

That's interesting -- I had no idea! 

[Clarita]

I would have told the nearest employee of the museum. Then ushered my kids out of that immediate room. I'm also still not the most observant person so there is a chance I wouldn't notice the bag to begin with, but if I noticed I would tell museum employee. I've been in too many airports so it's kind of drilled in me to think random bags sitting around without an obvious owner is unsafe and should be reported.

It seems by some of the responses the person who owned the bags was upset that you reported it somehow.

If I had left the bag (also prone to do) I would not be angry that someone reported my belongings. I'd just claim my bags and be embarrassed.

[Ellie]

6 hours ago, Kuovonne said:

This is why I would not ask the room. I don’t want to engage with a stranger who might become hostile, especially when you already know that the stranger does not respect the rules to keep bags attended.

Same. I would not have asked the room.

[katilac]

13 hours ago, SquirrellyMama said:

I think the other lady was embarrassed about having been called out and went on the defense.  She probably didn't think about how leaving the bag would look and felt attacked, and attacked back. Not saying her reaction was correct... Just thinking about how I might feel if called out (or felt I had been called out) for this action.

 

I don't give her that much credit. She had a very specific response at the ready, and my assumption would be that she was delighted to make OP ask twice before she responded (and only answered then bc the next step would be to tell staff), and delighted to have the chance to to reply in that obnoxious manner. 

12 hours ago, El... said:

Quill, or anybody, is this talking point happening somewhere? The idea that Americans should quit being concerned about terrorism because fear holds us back from living freely? I'm flailing to phrase it reasonably. But is this on some cable news channel? It reminds me of how some folks feel we need to get over the covid pandemic. I don't watch enough talking heads, perhaps. 

I don't know if it's making a resurgence, but think back to post 9/11, and how very often we heard the phrase, if we do this, the terrorists have won! 

If we don't keep going on vacations, the terrorists have won. 

If we cancel XYZ event, the terrorists have won. 

When Martha Stewart's employees didn't want to have a bunch of small parties in their own homes instead of a big company party, she sent a memo stating, "To me, the terrorists have certainly succeeded if so few of you participate in a companywide effort to ‘get together.’” 🙄

It was said so often, in relation to so many different things, that it became a go-to joke for comedians and comedy shows. 

Journalist Jeff Greenfield said at the time, “I am beginning to think some of us are using this idea to justify just about any kind of behavior at all. If I’m too upset to eat this extra slice of chocolate cake, if I refuse to relax and enjoy myself by watching the Victoria’s Secret fashion show, why then, the terrorists have won.”

That's what her response immediately made me think about, even though I haven't heard it lately. 

11 hours ago, SKL said:

I frankly don't see anything wrong with putting one's bag down while browsing an art gallery.  Especially since she was still in the same room.  Maybe the bag was heavy or she needed both hands for something.

TBH I might have been annoyed if I were the bag owner.  It depends on how things were said.  I don't mind someone asking whose it is, but then going on to imply that any bag not in a hand or on a back should be presumed dangerous?  And shame on me for not expecting everyone else to be afraid of it?  That is irrational.  For that matter, a bag in my hand or on my back isn't a guarantee of safety either.

Unattended bags on federal property are indeed presumed to be dangerous. I think it's somewhat disingenuous for people to act like they have no idea whatsoever that they shouldn't leave their bags unattended in a high profile venue, on federal property, in the nation's capital, and furthermore can't even imagine why they shouldn't do so.  

I know you travel a lot, and so are quite familiar with this same idea at airports. Just like at the airport, this is stated upon entry to any Smithsonian facility, and is also very easy to discover ahead of time. Just like at the airport, it can trigger a security alert, greatly inconveniencing many people in addition to the person who left it unattended. 

If you do not wish to lug a heavy bag around a museum, do not take a heavy bag to the museum. 

Let me really ruin your day: it is illegal in some cities to leave bags or anything else on the street, sidewalk, or median, or in public buildings, for as little as ten minutes. 

A bag in your hand is of course not a guarantee of safety, anymore than wearing your seatbelt is a guarantee of safety.  A bag that someone is holding is considered safer than an unattended bag, just as wearing your seatbelt is considered safter than not wearing it. 

11 hours ago, saraha said:

 We decided there was a secret passage somewhere nearby.  

There's basically a city underneath the Magic Kingdom. Walt Disney didn't want people to see the wrong characters in the wrong land, or piles of trash, or a lot of the logistics in general. I think Epcot and Disney Land also have some, but not as elaborate as MK. 

So, if you were in Magic Kingdom at Disney World, that would explain it. I'm sure they also prefer to not have security guards running across the park, lol. 

OP, I probably would have just directly reported it to staff. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by katilac

[SKL]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Unattended bags on federal property are indeed presumed to be dangerous. I think it's somewhat disingenuous for people to act like they have no idea whatsoever that they shouldn't leave their bags unattended in a high profile venue, on federal property, in the nation's capital, and furthermore can't even imagine why they shouldn't do so.  

I know you travel a lot, and so are quite familiar with this same idea at airports. Just like at the airport, this is stated upon entry to any Smithsonian facility, and is also very easy to discover ahead of time. Just like at the airport, it can trigger a security alert, greatly inconveniencing many people in addition to the person who left it unattended. 

If you do not wish to lug a heavy bag around a museum, do not take a heavy bag to the museum. 

Let me really ruin your day: it is illegal in some cities to leave bags or anything else on the street, sidewalk, or median, or in public buildings, for as little as ten minutes.

I guess it depends on how you define "unattended."  My understanding of the security concern is the idea that a person may leave a bomb in a bag and exit the building they're planning to bomb.  In the present case, the OP said the lady was just 15 feet away in the same gallery.  IMO that's not what is meant by leaving a bag unattended.

 

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

I guess it depends on how you define "unattended."  My understanding of the security concern is the idea that a person may leave a bomb in a bag and exit the building they're planning to bomb.  In the present case, the OP said the lady was just 15 feet away in the same gallery.  IMO that's not what is meant by leaving a bag unattended.

 

But how was anyone to know whether the owner was still in the building or not? It was unattended in that it was not at all apparent who it belonged to.

[Laura Corin]

8 hours ago, J-rap said:

That's interesting -- I had no idea! 

Everything that the US started to be aware of after 9/11 had been the norm throughout my whole life in the UK. 

I grew up in a small city.  There were two bombs left in bags on the main high street in 1974 when I was 11, causing injury to 20.  The second bomb was timed to catch people who had rushed to the area to help after the first.

[pinball]

17 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

Or the bomb Richard Jewel found

The bomb that Jewel discovered detonated as he was trying to clear the area. Over 100 were injured and 1 person died there and another died later from a heart attack.

if I saw a tucked away, unattended bag, package, suitcase, backpack, etc…and I didn’t ask questions of people in the area or point it out to people in the area, and then it turned out to be an explosive., I would hate myself.

EEMMV

[pinball]

All the coy political comments are also Super Cute

🥰🥰🥰

[Drama Llama]

5 hours ago, SKL said:

I guess it depends on how you define "unattended."  My understanding of the security concern is the idea that a person may leave a bomb in a bag and exit the building they're planning to bomb.  In the present case, the OP said the lady was just 15 feet away in the same gallery.  IMO that's not what is meant by leaving a bag unattended.

 

Which is why it was reasonable for OP to try to figure out if it was actually unattended.

If I see a bag sitting on or next to a bench and say “Is this your bag?” Or “Does this bag belong to anyone?” Then the owner says “Yes, it’s mine.” And I say “Thanks”.  That is how it should go.  Because I agree it wasn’t unattended, it just looked like it was.

[Clemsondana]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for rude responses.  But, there are also cultural differences as far as level of concern.  When my kids were little (15ish years ago) we lived in Albuquerque, which has some really good museums - a hands-on kids museum, the atomic museum, a natural history museum, and a quirky hot air balloon museum.  We used to rotate through them, but mostly alternated between the kids museum and the natural history museum, going to one each week during the winter months.  It wasn't unusual for people with kids to dump their bag and jackets in a corner of a room so that they could explore with their kids, freeing their hands to point to things or pick up the kids so that they could see something better.  We never gave it a second thought.  Many of the docents in these museums (especially the atomic museum) are retired national lab or military or university people (all 3 are major local employers) but nobody ever said anything.  To be fair, if one of them has asked 'Is this yours?' I probably wouldn't remember it, and it's unlikely that any body would have responded with anything other than 'Yes'.  It's possible that they paid enough attention to notice a mom walking with 2 kids and then later notice that the jackets that went with those kids were piled on the bag that the mom was carrying while the mom was helping the kids read the exhibit, I don't know.  

I never went to museums in a bigger city when the kids were small unless it was a family trip with spouse.  We did do the DC museums when the kids were in elementary and we didn't put stuff down like we did in Albuquerque, but that was mostly about crowds - you couldn't backtrack against the flow of traffic and I'd worry about theft.  At that time (maybe 8 years ago), everybody went through a metal detector and all bags were searched.  That being said, I'd never leave stuff unattended in an airport due to how security is approached.  But, for those of us who don't live in large cities, unless we fly it's possible to go years at a time without dealing with any place that would be a big enough target that most would think to be worried about an abandoned bag.  I realize that any place could be a possible target, but a mostly empty mall or a random Outback Steakhouse are not the primary things that one worries about.  I do go to big sports events, but those all have clear bag policies so once inside there isn't much thought given to the contents of the very small clear bags.  In the immediate aftermath of 9-11, the stadium had snipers positioned on roofs around the field.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Clemsondana

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Anecdote: My dgd and I visited the art museum in Chicago. She had a small backpack to carry a water bottle, a snack and whatever souvenirs she wanted to buy.  DGD and I were in the Monet exhibit and she took off her backpack to remove her coat. She set her backpack down by a bench, draped her coat over her arms, and began to walk over to me, about 20 -25 feet away. Security was on her immediately for leaving her backpack. DGD was 9 at the time.

This was a special exhibit gallery with timed entrance and a limited capacity. A second ticket was needed to enter and a checkpoint was at the gallery entrance. There is no way DGD could have sneaked any questionable items into the museum, let alone that particular gallery.  We were surprised at how quickly security took action.

--

As far as the OP, the bag wasn't sitting by a bench, out in the open, looking like someone had a memory lapse. The OP states it was tucked behind the chairs, out of the way. This to me speaks to intention; the person certainly didn't want to carry the bag while in that room. By placing it in a position where it may or may not be seen by someone, it makes me wonder. 

I tend to be nonconfrontational and I would not have asked the room. I would have gone to security and told them the color of the bag, the location of the bag, the time I noticed it, the number of people in the room, described said people, and have been so overly helpful they would have needed a coffee break afterward.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Granny_Weatherwax

[ktgrok]

56 minutes ago, BandH said:

Which is why it was reasonable for OP to try to figure out if it was actually unattended.

If I see a bag sitting on or next to a bench and say “Is this your bag?” Or “Does this bag belong to anyone?” Then the owner says “Yes, it’s mine.” And I say “Thanks”.  That is how it should go.  Because I agree it wasn’t unattended, it just looked like it was.

Right. No need for the bag owner to go off on a tirade. 

15 minutes ago, Granny_Weatherwax said:

 

As far as the OP, the bag wasn't sitting by a bench, out in the open, looking like someone had a memory lapse. The OP states it was tucked behind the chairs, out of the way. This to me speaks to intention; the person certainly didn't want to carry the bag while in that room. By placing it in a position where it may or may not be seen by someone, it makes me wonder. 

 

See, that part doesn't seem weird to me. I could see putting something tucked away a bit like that, to make it less likely to be stolen. 

[wintermom]

I would have immediately left the room with my reported the unattended suitcase to the first security guard I could find. I would not have called out to the room. I'm not trained to handle any outcomes from me shouting out in a room, but a security guard is trained to handle these kinds of situations with planned out protocol - plus the event will probably be recorded and may help shape future security procedures. 

I live in Canada, and in most of our national museums, you are not allowed to bring backpacks, etc. into the museum. You leave them in a locker at the entrance. I've visited many museums around Europe, and I believe that this is a similar requirement, and/or the bags are put through an x-ray. 

I've lived through enough bomb scares in Canada over the past 30 years to know that unattended packages are potentially danagerous. Who'd want to bomb stuff in Canada? But such is the reality of life. 

 

[Drama Llama]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Right. No need for the bag owner to go off on a tirade. 

See, that part doesn't seem weird to me. I could see putting something tucked away a bit like that, to make it less likely to be stolen. 

To me, tucking it away seems like someone planned to be far enough away, or gone long enough, to raise questions about whether the bag is unattended.   I totally understand someone setting a bag down for a minute because it's heavy, or like the previous person did to take their coat off.  And I understand forgetting it, or getting engrossed in an exhibit and walking far enough away for people think it's unattended.  But, knowing that unattended bags are anxiety provoking to people, and time consuming for security, intentionally leaving it and walking away isn't OK.  

33 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I would have immediately left the room with my reported the unattended suitcase to the first security guard I could find. I would not have called out to the room.

 

I think this ignores the fact that OP's kid was in the bathroom.  

I would have done the same thing if I was alone, or all my kids were with me.  But if I was in a situation where walking away meant that the suitcase was between me and my kid in the bathroom?  In that situation, I wouldn't have left.  

[marbel]

31 minutes ago, wintermom said:

I would not have called out to the room. I'm not trained to handle any outcomes from me shouting out in a room, but a security guard is trained to handle these kinds of situations with planned out protocol - plus the event will probably be recorded and may help shape future security procedures. 

This is what I was thinking too. I don't know if I would have thought of this in the midst of the situation, but then I started to think it might set off a panic in the room. 

That said, I still think what the OP did was totally fine and I'm still shaking my head about the over-the-top reaction of the woman who owned the bag. 

[wintermom]

21 minutes ago, BandH said:

I think this ignores the fact that OP's kid was in the bathroom.  

I would have done the same thing if I was alone, or all my kids were with me.  But if I was in a situation where walking away meant that the suitcase was between me and my kid in the bathroom?  In that situation, I wouldn't have left.  

I should have added, I'd have gone into the bathroom to fetch my other child (or waited until they came out if is was a boy), then left immediately.

[SKL]

20 minutes ago, BandH said:

To me, tucking it away seems like someone planned to be far enough away, or gone long enough, to raise questions about whether the bag is unattended.   I totally understand someone setting a bag down for a minute because it's heavy, or like the previous person did to take their coat off.  And I understand forgetting it, or getting engrossed in an exhibit and walking far enough away for people think it's unattended.  But, knowing that unattended bags are anxiety provoking to people, and time consuming for security, intentionally leaving it and walking away isn't OK. 

 

Or maybe the individual thought it most considerate to store the bag out of the way of foot traffic.  That would be my thought process anyway.

Before reading this (bizarre to me) thread, I wouldn't have thought that "unattended bags are anxiety provoking to people."  I would not have thought the average person would freak out seeing my bag in a public place for a short period of time with no reason to assume I'd left the vicinity.  And even if I had left the room, I would think the far bigger risk would be my risk of having the bag stolen vs. others' risk that I was trying to blow the building up.  Especially given that the building has a policy of searching bags upon entry.

I did and do agree the bag owner overreacted based on the OP's description.  I wouldn't have acted like that, but I probably would have been a bit ruffled by a fellow patron hollering "WHOSE BAG IS THIS" and "UNATTENDED ARTICLE" in a public place.  I am a much calmer person than bag owner lady, and most likely would have turned my head and rolled my eyes toward the artworks.  I would be less annoyed if it were a security person just doing his/her job.