is this reasonable? school Christmas performance

[caedmyn]

My older three kids started attending a very small (35ish kids K-12) Christian school last month.  The school does an annual Christmas performance.  This is not a high quality performance, it’s not recorded for promotional purposes or anything like that, it’s just something for parents to come watch.  And it’s not optional, they expect everyone to participate.  They sent out a text to parents two weeks before the day of the performance wanting the kids to wear all black, dress shirts for the boys, with a bright colored tie or scarf.  I find this both irritating and frustrating.  They couldn’t have them wear their school uniforms.  They couldn’t even pick navy which is one of two school uniform colors for bottoms and three colors for tops, so that pretty much everyone actually has navy clothes already.  No, they wanted parents to add yet another shopping trip before Christmas to find and buy whatever clothes their kids don’t have so they can wear them exactly once (everything is open here so COVID doesn’t factor in to this at all).  My boys never wear dress shirts outside of school.  The two other parents I talked to weren’t thrilled about the performance “dress code” either.  (And the “dress code” for the performance changes every year based on whatever the teacher in charge wants—it’s not like all black is a tradition).

So I went to the used kids’ clothes store here and bought black pants and long sleeve solid black tee shirts for my boys.  If they’d had black dress shirts I would have bought them, but they didn’t.  I figured they could wear their bright colored ties with those and it’d be good enough.  Well they had a dress rehearsal today and the teacher in charge of it told DS12 that she was going to buy him and his brother black dress shirts because she didn’t like the shirts I sent for them.  Now I’m really irritated about the whole thing.  Am I overreacting here (ok I’m not actually reacting...I’m just really annoyed.). Is it reasonable for the school to expect parents to buy whatever clothes they decide on for the performance?  If it’s not, is there some way to tactfully complain about it?

[Spryte]

I would find that annoying, too.

[Kassia]

I think it's unreasonable, but common.  We had that happen frequently when my kids were in ps (but that was with no covid risk, obviously).  It was expensive to have to dress the kids for a short school performance that only parents/families would see.  Many kids didn't wear what was requested - either their families couldn't afford to or didn't want to bother.

 

 

 

[wintermom]

On the plus side, once you have these black clothes, you'll be able to use them again next year as they won't wear out. You can just pass them down from one child to the next. That's what I did with all my kids' black performance clothing they wore once or twice a year with them music school. It gets really easy over the years. 😉 

Walmart has excellent deals on black dress pants and shirts for boys. Very affordable, easy to find - just grab and go. It's harder for girls, I found.

Edited December 14, 2020 by wintermom

[teachermom2834]

I think that scenario is both very annoying and commonplace. Sorry! I’d be aggravated by the request but would have complied and stewed about it. 🙁

[Ausmumof3]

Annoying but normal.  Would be good if they planned the stuff in advance so parents had time to look out in sales/op-shops.

[almondbutterandjelly]

I agree that it is very irritating and also very common.  

[caedmyn]

7 minutes ago, wintermom said:

On the plus side, once you have these black clothes, you'll be able to use them again next year as they won't wear out. You can just pass them down from one child to the next. That's what I did with all my kids' black performance clothing they wore once or twice a year with them music school. It gets really easy over the years. 😉 

Walmart has excellent deals on black dress pants and shirts for boys. Very affordable, easy to find - just grab and go. It's harder for girls, I found.

Except that based on past history, next year they’ll pick something different entirely for them to wear.  

Unless the Walmarts here have some that aren’t listed online, they don’t have any right now.  I checked websites for Old Navy, JCPenney, Walmart, and Target.  JCP was the only one who had black boys’ dress shirts listed, and none were in stock locally.

[Ailaena]

It’s reasonable to ask kids to have a certain outfit for a performance UNLESS that performance is mandatory EXCEPT if you’re at a private school.  Idk how new you are to small, private schools, but they mostly kind of do whatever and you go along with it (sometimes with an eye roll).

Let me say I totally understand, not trying to be mean, or anything.  Under no circumstances should the teacher have said anything to the kids, that’s petty.  The only thing you can do is tell teacher that it would be preferable to bring objections to the parent as the children are not yet buying their own clothing.  Or maybe you can let her buy the shirts and give them back to her afterwards so “people next year can use them.” 😜

[wintermom]

16 minutes ago, caedmyn said:

Except that based on past history, next year they’ll pick something different entirely for them to wear.  

Unless the Walmarts here have some that aren’t listed online, they don’t have any right now.  I checked websites for Old Navy, JCPenney, Walmart, and Target.  JCP was the only one who had black boys’ dress shirts listed, and none were in stock locally.

Well, if you are a paying 'customer' at this school, then let the principal know that this is going to be a struggle. Not just for you, but many parents as there are minimal black clothing available in the stores now.  The school has 2 weeks to change their plan if you let them know now.

[catz]

I do think it is unreasonable to tell you with that time frame.  If at the beginning of the year they had said "Your child will be participating in choir (or whatever) this year. They will have performances on dates X, Y, Z.  For those performances we expect boys to have A and girls to have B".  I think that would have been reasonable.

If they are changing what they want every year and giving you last minute notice every time, that is obnoxious.   Like my daughter has done singing stuff and orchestra for years.  I have always been on the lookout for good thrift performance wear.  If her orchestra told me a week or 2 lead time they were switching to red or something, I would complain.  

I'm frankly surprised anyone in the US is ramping up to do public large group performances?

[mom2scouts]

I would be annoyed. It's hard enough to find specific things in years when there's not a pandemic, but this year it's asking too much. Our local elementary schools finally realized they were creating a hardship for families by asking for specific holiday clothes for one low quality holiday performance, so now they usually just say to wear nicer clothes or holiday colored or themed clothes.

[Dmmetler]

Normal, but IMO shouldn't be, especially not during a pandemic. Things may be open, but it doesn't mean a family isn't weighing risk and not doing unnecessary trips.  FWIW, when I was a school music teacher, I asked for white on top, Black or Navy on the bottom and added accessories-and I had a pretty big stock of different colored vests, scarves, ties, etc that we kept at school.  Since White on top/black or navy on the bottom matched the school uniform code, at least if a parent had to go out and buy something, it was something the child could wear to school afterwards. 

 

I think I was a good 10 years out of college before I started buying dress clothes in colors other than Black or White/Black, because I was so used to needing them for performances. 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Dmmetler

[OH_Homeschooler]

Yes, it is annoying. I remember my kids in kindergarten having shopping lists a mile long, and then when they started school they were told about how they were supposed to wear a certain color each day of the week--after buying the materials and the clothes for the year. It wasn't a huge deal, like they wouldn't be penalized if they didn't wear the right color, but my DD especially wanted to fit in. And when we went school shopping that year, all she wanted was pink. I ended up buying some cheap t-shirts and they did come in handy for other things, but I wrote on a school survey that they should put the different colored clothes on the school supply list...especially considering how ridiculously long the list already was. Naturally, they never updated the supplies list. 🙄

Anyway, if you're okay with it, then just have them wear the clothes you already purchased. The school should have been more specific and given more notice. I only have experience with larger public schools but I have never heard of a kid being kept off stage due to clothing, and I've seen some interesting t-shirts at these programs--because that is what these kids have. 

No one will care or even notice that your boys have long-sleeved tees instead of dress shirts. 

[katilac]

Let the teacher knock herself out and buy them dress shirts (although I find it hard to believe they were the only ones without the exact item). 

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

 Walmart has excellent deals on black dress pants and shirts for boys. Very affordable, easy to find - just grab and go. It's harder for girls, I found.

This doesn't jive with my observation, but I don't actually have boys so I double-checked. My Walmart, which is quite sizable, has zero black dress pants and zero black dress shirts for boys. Not in the store, and not to be shipped. Target has no shirts - the only plain boys' dress shirts they have are white and blue. They do have black pants. 

[mommyoffive]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

Normal, but IMO shouldn't be, especially not during a pandemic. Things may be open, but it doesn't mean a family isn't weighing risk and not doing unnecessary trips.  FWIW, when I was a school music teacher, I asked for white on top, Black or Navy on the bottom and added accessories-and I had a pretty big stock of different colored vests, scarves, ties, etc that we kept at school.  Since White on top/black or navy on the bottom matched the school uniform code, at least if a parent had to go out and buy something, it was something the child could wear to school afterwards. 

 

I think I was a good 10 years out of college before I started buying dress clothes in colors other than Black or White/Black, because I was so used to needing them for performances. 

 

Yes, I agree it is totally normal and annoying.  But it shouldn't be going on in a pandemic.  Things are hard to find right now and going around shopping and stopping lots of places is so not what should be going on.  It should be school uniform and done this year. 

[rebcoola]

Annoying and frustrating but common.  I would probably stew but do it. 

[regentrude]

The dress code: annoying but normal.

Having a Christmas performance (I assume with a parent/grandparent audience?)  during a pandemic? That's not reasonable, but irresponsible.

Edited December 15, 2020 by regentrude

[MercyA]

That teacher needs to chill out. Not everybody has the time and money for that sort of thing.

(Also echoing the sentiment that group performances shouldn't be happening right now, anyway.)

[wintermom]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

Let the teacher knock herself out and buy them dress shirts (although I find it hard to believe they were the only ones without the exact item). 

This doesn't jive with my observation, but I don't actually have boys so I double-checked. My Walmart, which is quite sizable, has zero black dress pants and zero black dress shirts for boys. Not in the store, and not to be shipped. Target has no shirts - the only plain boys' dress shirts they have are white and blue. They do have black pants. 

Well I can only talk about my experience at my local WalMarts over the past 15 years. There could be issues due to the pandemic. Or maybe we have high-class WalMarts in Canada. 😉

[regentrude]

Just now, MercyA said:

That teacher needs to chill out. Not everybody has the time and money for that sort of thing.

This. Or can/wants to expose themselves to a store full of people

[Carol in Cal.]

Yes, Spirit Week at DD’s high school was a nightmare for me.  All that last minute shopping, and a new ‘compulsory’ outfit to figure out every day of the week.  Ugh.

 

[BeachGal]

Yes, that would irritate me. It’s not so much the money but the bother and waste of having to purchase something that will only be worn once. I suppose your kids could dress up as Johnny Cash for Halloween...

[gardenmom5]

Depending upon the income bracket of their students - it is or is not reasonable.

Kids at the pricy private school here - sure, if they can afford that much for tuition (the local major university is cheaper), they can (probably) afford to buy a shirt and pair of pants. (though they do have a scholarship program for those making <$250K.)

for the average person, it's not practical.  Can you get some other parents to go with you and speak with the school directors?  Making the suggestion of how much more practical it would have been to have the students wear uniform pants. - to really twist the knife . . . . how much less the families will have to donate to the school for fundraisers because they're having to buy clothes their kid is only going to wear once.

[Storygirl]

Yes, it's normal for these kind of requests, and, yes, it's a hassle for parents. For DD's private school fourth grade play, she was one in a trio that had to wear all green, all blue, or all yellow. I hunted hard for green pants (!!!GRRR!!!) and finally bought a pair of Grinch pajamas for the green bottoms and had to find a separate green long-sleeved t-shirt.

Another year, she was an orphan in Annie, and I had to find and buy a pair of old looking boots. For another play, I had to find feather boas at the last minute.

Last year, my three kids were in choir and band for public school and had to wear white or black on top and black on bottom, so we had to shop for that. So it happens in public school, as well.

I'm sorry the teacher said something about their shirts and wants to replace them. It would have been better for her just to accept what they came in. She is probably a perfectionist.

[gardenmom5]

17 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Well I can only talk about my experience at my local WalMarts over the past 15 years. There could be issues due to the pandemic. Or maybe we have high-class WalMarts in Canada. 😉

we have a walmart here (large metro area) that absolutely gives me to the creeps go to into.  serious creeps - I won't go there.  Dd went to college in a very rural area and  I have visited some in rural areas where that's about all there is - they are very different.

But even the one on the westside of FW that 2dd goes to doesn't have the super creepy feel of the one that is more local to me.

[Kassia]

6 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

we have a walmart here (large metro area) that absolutely gives me to the creeps go to into.  serious creeps - I won't go there.  Dd went to college in a very rural area and  I have visited some in rural areas where that's about all there is - they are very different.

But even the one on the westside of FW that 2dd goes to doesn't have the super creepy feel of the one that is more local to me.

We have a beautiful Walmart.  , It's clean, the employees are great, and it's the only store in our semi-rural area.  But the two next-closest Walmarts that were our only options before this one was built are gross and one absolutely gives me the creeps.  

We used to get my sons' dress clothes there for one-time wears like school performances, weddings, and funerals.  They still laugh about their "George" shoes that would get permanent dents in them if they were stepped on by someone else.  

 

[klmama]

Even when it's the same black or black/white clothing every year, they often forget to tell families until the week of the performance.  The long-term families know what to expect, but the new people have an unpleasant surprise.  

[Terabith]

Not reasonable, but common.  I'm sorry.  It super duper sucks.  

[katilac]

45 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Well I can only talk about my experience at my local WalMarts over the past 15 years. There could be issues due to the pandemic. Or maybe we have high-class WalMarts in Canada. 😉

What, it's not enough that y'all have better health care, you have to hog the good Wal-marts too? 😄

[73349]

I would tell the teacher that what they are wearing is what you have for them. I can't imagine that the audience will be sitting close enough to see the difference.

She may well have told everybody else in August, but that doesn't mean it's some kind of emergency for you to find the One True Shirts for this event.

[Ellie]

It might be annoying, but it is nevertheless a rule which must be followed. It is the price you pay for sending your dc to school.

I see nothing wrong with the dress requirement. It is a costume. It could easily have been a much more complicated costume, but it's just a black dress shirt.

You can complain about not being given enough notice, but not about the costume.

[HS Mom in NC]

I think that kind of person (changing the dress code each year for performances, sending late information about performance clothes, insisting the show must go on in a pandemic) is statistically more likely in a teacher of a performance type class. Performer personalities aren't generally known for their practicality and common sense, and they often need someone to explicitly state the practical issues to them. I would talk to the principal and encourage the other parents who have to deal with this crap to do so too.

I'd explain that I expect a minimal  amount of professionalism from professional teacher receiving a professional salary that includes:

-being informed about performance clothing and dates at the beginning of the year
 
-setting performance clothing standards so that performance clothes can be handed down/passed around each year since they won't be used enough to wear out and to minimize cost to parents (All black is fairly standard for school choirs and musicians. The level of formality and uniformity are the only things that differ between groups.)

And I'd personally add that I expect the school to follow health department guidelines, but that didn't seem to be an issue for the OP.

[Kanin]

When my parents were really poor, I didn't have snowpants. My mom put an extra pair of pants over my regular ones. I was fine with it, and it worked!

My teacher brought in a snowsuit for me that her daughter outgrew. I was so humiliated, and so was my mom! I'm still mad about it. I don't think your kids' teacher should butt in like that.

I also think a performance in a pandemic with a packed auditorium is beyond irresponsible. They've never heard of Zoom?

[EKS]

18 hours ago, caedmyn said:

Is it reasonable for the school to expect parents to buy whatever clothes they decide on for the performance?  If it’s not, is there some way to tactfully complain about it?

Is this your first experience having your kids in school?  This sort of thing is very typical.  After trying to comply with these sorts of requests a few times and driving myself crazy in the process, I finally just decided that they would wear whatever we already owned that was closest to what was requested.  It was fine. 

As for complaining, you are probably going to have other, far more important, things to complain about.  I'd save your complaining for that because once you're pegged as a complainer, they will stop listening.  (Or, if you do it right, they'll ask you to be on the board of trustees--this actually happened to me!)

[MoyaPechal]

My middle school had uniforms and we just wore those for performances. If you were in choir, maybe you'd be asked to wear something specific for that part of the performance, but usually not. In high school we were supposed to have dressy clothes for choir performances, but that school didn't already have a uniform and it wasn't an all-school performance.

[skimomma]

Like others have said, the most unreasonable part about this is having a live holiday program at all!  

As far as clothing requirements, I personally find it unreasonable and a waste of time, money, and resources.  Are the kids really any less cute singing their holiday song in their school uniform or regular dress clothes?  No, they are not.  I can wrap my head around standard all-black concert attire for older kids for a high-quality performance or costume specifics for a play (with PLENTY of heads up), but that is about as far as I go.  I am luckily about done with this phase of my life but my dd has shown up to many things in the not-quite-what-was-asked for attire.  I refuse to buy a pair of shoes or an entire outfit for a single one hour event.  We will get as close as possible with what we already own or can borrow.  If I have enough time for a quick lap through Goodwill, I might go that far.  But certainly not during a pandemic. 

We steered our dd away from entire activities due to this kind of thing.  And fundraising, but that is a whole new topic.  Dd was in learn-to-skate as a 4yo.  I just about choked when we got the order form for the end of the season performance.  I was supposed to cough up $70 for a mouse costume so my kid could wear it for a grand total of 3 minutes of pushing a folding chair across the ice.  And I was a "bad mom' because we did to also buy the "strongly encouraged" matching tights for another $10.  Exact same experiences for dance classes.  Again, I could work with this sort of thing for a serious skater or dancer.  Maybe.  At age 4, I expect any costume requirements to cost significantly less than the class itself.

This has been going on since the beginning of time.  I vividly remember performing in a band concert in my mom's black Isotoner slippers because we did not realize I had outgrown my black dress shoes until we were trying to get out the door.  I also remember plenty of kids had navy blue pants or black sneakers with the white parts colored in with Sharpie....just doing the best they can.  The music was still the same and I don't recall any teacher making a fuss.

 

[Beth S]

We're a HMDown family.  I would reach out to other friends & ask to borrow these clothing items!
I would be more concerned that my kids could feel embarrassed if they stand out (in a weird way) during the performance.

[lmrich]

Annoying but typical. Don't get involved in dance - the waste is crazy. 

But why are they having a performance this year! What!? 

[TechWife]

When ds was in a private school, they had a dress uniform and a daily uniform. Dress uniforms could be worn at any time, but they were required for events like assemblies and concerts. 
 

This is a bad year to do a Christmas concert. Yikes. 
 

ETA: Its disrespectful for the teacher to decide the clothes you picked for your children aren’t good enough for her. I would refuse the shirts she purchases and have them wear what you picked out for them. I would also send her a note, copying the school board or administrator explaining how it is inappropriate for a teacher to even comment on the clothes a student is wearing, much less to tell the student that she doesn’t like what they are wearing and decide that she has better judgment than the child’s parent. This attitude is demeaning and disrespectful.

Edited December 16, 2020 by TechWife

[prairiewindmomma]

IME, there is a wide range of "acceptable" even within private schools.  You've got the difficult dynamic, IIRC, where your school is also based out of your church.  The politics get messy.

I would have just ordered shirts.  Then, some months down the road, I would request that for the ease of convenience and planning that in the future that a dress code for performances is solidified---either school uniforms or standard black--but that it's not flexible year to year.  We've had the same problem with church based activities and finding a delicate way to word that without stomping on relationships you don't really get a break from is hard.

Just FYI: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=boys+black+dress+shirts&ref=nb_sb_noss_1  Amazon prime can be your friend in small town situations. It looks like the boys' shirts are running $12-14.  I do think there is a difference between t-shirts and dress shirts, fwiw. She made a reasonable request in nature, just not in timing and circumstances.  

[QueenCat]

I don't think it's unreasonable, except that you should have been given a little more notice. Caveat, this year, there shouldn't be a live performance. It's unconscionable that it's happening. That is the only problem I see.

[SKL]

It annoys me too ... especially when they hardly give you any time to shop for affordable options.

But I also agree that it is pretty common.

They might be willing to adjust to some extent.  For example, rather than buy a black blouse, maybe a black t-shirt with a black jacket over it?  But it's still a pain.

Every other year I've had to buy stuff for reasons like that.  They assume all kids already have these things?  Like one year it was khaki pants and a bright colored plain t-shirt.  My kids don't wear pants, and we have so many t-shirts from camps etc., why would I buy plain ones?  But I had to go buy 4 new garments that were all used exactly once.  It's not just the cost, it's the fact of having to make time to go shopping, and then find space for additional clothes we didn't need.

[TCB]

4 hours ago, QueenCat said:

Edited December 16, 2020 by TCB
Deleted - not relevant to thread