S/O: When your spouse is no longer part of your faith

[Elfknitter.#]

I felt my question would derail the other thread.

 

I read Harriet's post explaining why a spouse who no longer shares the same faith would be devastating (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/518671-cc-i-feel-like-ive-been-punched-in-the-gut/?p=5732999), specifically:

 

It's about agreement on the deepest and most core beliefs we have. It's about feeling separate on what is most important in this life.

 

It's also a deep-seated anxiety to think that the one you love best in the world may suffer from being apart from God in this life and in the next. It's not about achieving enough points to "get into heaven." It is a deeply rooted horror of existence apart from God. It's not merely a philosophical debate--it is about a relationship, about a loss of relationship.

 

Think about how you might feel if your father announced that he was leaving your mother to go live with another woman. If you always thought your parents were happy together, this would be a horrible shock. It would feel wrong on every level. It would be a terrible rip in the relationship. Looking at your parents, you would feel deeply the rift in the relationship. That is how it is to look as a wife on the devastation of a beloved spouse's relationship with God.

Is this how all Christian denominations feel it would be? Do people of other religions also find this to be true?

[milovany]

I think the post I just made there might be relevant to your question:

 

 

 

Many, many, many Christians marry their spouse based on a shared Christian faith.  For many, this would be a non-negotiable.  This makes sense for quite a lot of reasons (faith-based reasons, to be sure, but no less real). They probably wouldn't have chosen said person if that person wasn't actively living a Christian life.  Yes, there's romantic love, and friendship, and passion, but part of all those things is the sharing of their belief in God through Christ. So of course it can be devastating/heartbreaking when one spouse says they don't have that faith anymore.  One of the main reasons they married in the first place is gone. If someone who married as described above is now facing a future of uncertainty (Will he come back to the faith?  How will we "do religion" in our family now? Is training our children in these things now all up to me?  Will he discourage/forbid me from trying to train them to live as Christians?  Will we be at odds all the time now?  Will he leave me because he thinks I'm cuckoo for maintaining faith?), it isn't at all confusing why they might be "devastated."

 

I think this this would be true of many denominations; maybe not all, but many. I also think Catholics probably tend to want to marry Catholics, and Orthodox to marry Orthodox.  For protestants, one might quote the Scripture, "do not be yoked together with unbelievers" (from the going-into marriage side of things). For Catholics and Orthodox, it would be that as well as church doctrine/practice/tradition.  Again, these are general statements that will not apply to every circumstance. 

 

 

[Catwoman]

I don't think it has to make a major difference unless the family has led a particularly religious life.

 

There are many families where one spouse attends church and the other doesn't, and it's not a problem at all. Many people don't think twice about dating or marrying someone outside their faith, either.

 

BUT... I think it's different in families where their religion is a major part of their daily lives, and when one spouse leaves the faith, it has a tangible impact on many facets of their lives, and that's what appears to be the case in the other thread.

 

Personally, it's hard for me to imagine feeling any differently about my dh if he suddenly changed his personal beliefs, because in my mind he would still be the exact same man he was the day before he told me about it, but our lives don't revolve around any church and we don't do things like pray together, so I don't think my feelings apply to situations like the one in Hoppy's thread. I can't imagine having trouble accepting it if my dh changed his beliefs. I would just be glad he was honest with me about it.

 

But again, I can't personally relate to Hoppy's situation, so I won't criticize her for feeling the way she does.

 

FWIW, I don't know anyone in my real life who is as religious as many of the people on this forum. I honestly had no clue that anyone's lives revolved around their religions to the extent that I have read here. It's totally foreign to me.

[EndOfOrdinary]

It bothers me that my stand is not involved or supportive of my faith. It is not a deal breaker (obviously), but I feel like our relationship would be a thousand times stronger if he not only understood that part of me, but shared it with me.

[SemiSweet]

With my ex I became a Christian and he didn't, it bothered me greatly and prayed frequently about it. I desperately wanted him to go to church and be saved never realizing that I was the one who changed the rules of the game on him. I'm now an atheist and my dh is agnostic, if he became a Christian or Muslim or any other proselytizing faith I would be absolutely devastated. I can definitely appreciate the feelings from the op of the other thread. My atheism is a huge part of me and my outlook on life, having been a Christian, I could not appreciate my spouse becoming one at this point. We do occasionally go to the UU church here and enjoy that together.

[Arcadia]

Do people of other religions also find this to be true?

If the marriage is built on religion, then it is emotionally upsetting. Some of my friends are Buddhist, Hindu or Taoist. If they opt for a civil marriage ceremony, it is more likely that religion is not the foundation of their marriage. If they opt for a religious marriage by a priest (Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist) then religion is very likely entwine in their daily life.

 

An ex-classmate of mine is Catholic and she expects her husband to lead the prayers. When we (girlfriends) are guests at her house, we wait for her husband to be free to say grace before we eat. I don't know if that is because it is a Catholic custom or her preference for the "lord of the house" to lead the prayers.

 

An aunt is catholic married to a close cousin who was catholic. It was a love match though. My aunt's hubby became a free thinker many years ago and their marriage is still going strong. When their only child (Down syndrome, leukemia) died, they had a catholic funeral for him because the child did not state a preference and a catholic funeral would help my aunt with the grieving process.

 

I do know many inter-faith marriages that last but acceptance that the spouse would not convert was already established before engagement.

[Catwoman]

If the marriage is built on religion, then it is emotionally upsetting. Some of my friends are Buddhist, Hindu or Taoist. If they opt for a civil marriage ceremony, it is more likely that religion is not the foundation of their marriage. If they opt for a religious marriage by a priest (Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist) then religion is very likely entwine in their daily life.

 

An ex-classmate of mine is Catholic and she expects her husband to lead the prayers. When we (girlfriends) are guests at her house, we wait for her husband to be free to say grace before we eat. I don't know if that is because it is a Catholic custom or her preference for the "lord of the house" to lead the prayers.

 

An aunt is catholic married to a close cousin who was catholic. It was a love match though. My aunt's hubby became a free thinker many years ago and their marriage is still going strong. When their only child (Down syndrome, leukemia) died, they had a catholic funeral for him because the child did not state a preference and a catholic funeral would help my aunt with the grieving process.

 

I do know many inter-faith marriages that last but acceptance that the spouse would not convert was already established before engagement.

I have never heard any Catholic refer to her dh as "the lord of the house," and the few families I knew who said grace, that duty (or privilege, depending on how you look at it I suppose,) seemed to rotate among family members.

[Catwoman]

I was just thinking more about this topic, and I realized that back when I was dating, I never knew what religion anyone was when we met, nor did I know until we'd been dating for quite a long time -- and they never asked me, either. It was always a complete non-issue.

 

Where I live, it's very uncommon for people to ask each other if or where they go to church, so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

I never cared what other people believed or didn't believe. I figured I'd believe what I wanted, and they could believe whatever they wanted. If the relationship went far enough where we started discussing things like future children, religious beliefs would have been an important thing to discuss, but I never chose or rejected any potential dates based on religion. It would never even have occurred to me.

[Arcadia]

I have never heard any Catholic refer to her dh as "the lord of the house,"

In her husband's side of the family (all Roman Catholics), the oldest male leads the prayers. So it could be a family tradition. Like I said in my first post, it could be due to religion or preference.

 

My friends use "lord of the house" and "lady of the house" in a casual joking manner. We are not using those terms in the Victorian era context :)

 

ETA:

Friends who prefer to marry someone of their denomination would tend to date people from the same church. People have asked people which church they go to. My BIL's wife has ask many casual acquaintances. I hear people asking at the local YMCA. Our social circles are different that's all.

[Catwoman]

In her husband's side of the family (all Roman Catholics), the oldest male leads the prayers. So it could be a family tradition. Like I said in my first post, it could be due to religion or preference.

 

My friends use "lord of the house" and "lady of the house" in a casual joking manner. We are not using those terms in the Victorian era context :)

It could definitely be a family preference thing, or maybe some Catholics have some sort of rule I've never heard about. It wouldn't be the first time! :)

[Elfknitter.#]

I have never heard any Catholic refer to her dh as "the lord of the house," and the few families I knew who said grace, that duty (or privilege, depending on how you look at it I suppose,) seemed to rotate among family members.

I wonder if that's family culture.

  

I was just thinking more about this topic, and I realized that back when I was dating, I never knew what religion anyone was when we met, nor did I know until we'd been dating for quite a long time -- and they never asked me, either. It was always a complete non-issue.

Snipped for brevity.

 

I have to agree here. Dating wasn't done because of religious similarities. It was done because two people felt a connection. Religion did wind up rearing it's head when things got serious for a couple of my girlfriends, but overall the main importance for us was on character, not religion. That said, dh has one friend for whom dating within the church was extremely important. But that had a whole other host of issues not quite pertinent here.

[marbel]

I have always considered myself a Christian but at some times in my life I was not really living/acting as one.  Most of my dating years, I didn't give a thought to religion because it didn't matter to me.    After I met my husband my faith started to grow and I became more committed.   At that point I would not have married him if he had not been a Christian as well.  Now I wonder that I would ever bother to date someone who did not share my faith.  It is such an important part of who I am along with what I do.   So yeah, I would be devastated and confused if my husband suddenly said he was no longer a Christian.  He would not be the same person, just as I would not be the same person if I was the one who lost my faith.  We wouldn't leave each other, but things would be different.  It wouldn't be just about what we did on Sunday morning! 

 

I understand that not everyone feels that way, and that there are happy, respectful interfaith marriages.  I know that it would not work for me.  I encourage my children to focus on dating people who share their faith (among other things).  In my observation, the strongest and happiest marriages are ones in which the couple share moral, ethical, and spiritual/religious values.   That is not to say inter-faith marriages cannot be strong and happy.  Note the superlatives.  And note that I said "in my observation."  

 

People who don't have a strong faith may just not be able to understand this.  I don't mean that in an insulting way. It's just not something easy to explain.  In the other thread, I've been really bothered by the people who are essentially saying "hey, no big deal!" to someone who is obviously in pain and suffering something they haven't experienced and don't understand. 

 

 

[DawnM]

If my husband announced he wanted to start going to an Orthodox church or a Catholic church, I wouldn't' have a huge issue.  It would certainly be a big change, but as long as the core of our faith is still in those churches, I would be fine.

 

In fact, my cousin became an Orthodox priest about 20 years ago.  His evangelical/mainline parents had a very hard time with it.  They have since come around and are far more accepting.

 

However, if my husband walked completely away from Christ, I would be devastated.  It is the core of who we are.

 

Dawn

 

 

I think the post I just made there might be relevant to your question:

 

 

 

 

I think this this would be true of many denominations; maybe not all, but many. I also think Catholics probably tend to want to marry Catholics, and Orthodox to marry Orthodox.  For protestants, one might quote the Scripture, "do not be yoked together with unbelievers" (from the going-into marriage side of things). For Catholics and Orthodox, it would be that as well as church doctrine/practice/tradition.  Again, these are general statements that will not apply to every circumstance. 

 

[Rosie_0801]

I don't expect a spouse to share my religion, only my manners about religion.

[Cammie]

I'm a Christian married to a Hindu. I think it depends greatly on how "exclusive" your practice of your religion is.  I come from a very liberal Protestant background.  I do not believe that my DH is going to hell.  I do not believe there is only one correct path in life.  We are not "very" religious in that religion is not at the center of our life as a family.  Obviously if it was, the answer would be different.  But for us it is not central.

[wintermom]

I read Harriet's post explaining why a spouse who no longer shares the same faith would be devastating (http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/518671-cc-i-feel-like-ive-been-punched-in-the-gut/?p=5732999), specifically:

 

 

Is this how all Christian denominations feel it would be? Do people of other religions also find this to be true?

 

I would imagine that the depth and breadth of importance that religion has in a couple's life as a united unit would be more important than the denomination or type of religion. If a couple's personal, social and extended family life was closely tied to a particular religion, it would have a huge impact if one spouse was suddenly no longer part of it. And the degree to which the non-believing spouse retreated from the religious activities would also have an impact.

 

[Heather in Neverland]

It does matter for many other religions.

 

My amah (housekeeper/nanny) was raised a devout Hindu and married a devout Hindu man. A few years ago she and her daughters became Christians. Her husband disowned all of them and says they are "dead to him". The oldest daughter just got married and he refused to come to the wedding and demanded his name be taken off the invitations. He has not seen or spoken to them in three years.

 

Also, here in Malaysia it is illegal for a Malay to convert from the Muslim faith to anything else. If one person in a married Malay couple wanted to convert from being a Muslim it would not only destroy their marriage but get them arrested.

 

So it's not just Christians who may feel this way. Many other faiths have similar feelings on the unity of religion in marriage.

[Carrie12345]

As a lifelong atheist married to a "converted" atheist who is now re-exploring Christianity, yeah, it's a pretty big deal. 

[Danestress]

I think the post I just made there might be relevant to your question:

 

 

I think this this would be true of many denominations; maybe not all, but many. I also think Catholics probably tend to want to marry Catholics, and Orthodox to marry Orthodox. For protestants, one might quote the Scripture, "do not be yoked together with unbelievers" (from the going-into marriage side of things). For Catholics and Orthodox, it would be thatl as well as church doctrine/practice/tradition. Again, these are general statements that will not apply to every circumstance.

So as a Protestant (Anglican) I feel compelled to point out that while our church doctrine/practice/tradition might be different from that of Catholics or Orthodox Christians. It is still important to many many Protestants and part of the fabric of our lives.

[Scarlett]

It was a huge deal to me in my first marriage and the disunity took its toll over the years. When I met my current dh it was one of the VERY first things we discussed. We were introduced by mutual friends who also share our faith. I asked them many questions about his history and he did as well.

 

I think in a marriage if either spouse changes such a major component that spouse should take great pains to reassure and cooperate with the other spouse. One of my best friend's now xh told her he no longer believed in God when she was pregnant with their second child, 4 years into the marriage. Although she was devastated she did everything she could to get along with him. Over the next four years he became more and more demanding eventually getting to the point that he told her if she did not renounce her faith he would divorce her and take the children away from her. It was a very very bad situation. From reading here I know that not everyone who leaves a religion behaves that way, but it does happen.

[livetoread]

We are a couple who married as Christians. He became a non-believer before I did. I took it kind of hard because I had doubts too, but was more afraid to follow them. His leaving process caused little angst for him, while mine was more difficult. Also, the spiritual growth of our children fell to me, which was tough because they were little atheists from the get-go (before either my husband or I lost our faiths) and weren't particularly receptive to my efforts. Eventually I joined the rest of them, but I was the last hold out!

 

If my husband was to join a faith now, it would depend on how much it emphasized others not being ok for how much it would bother me. I would resent the implication that I am unacceptable in my nonbelief and must change too. However, if it (and he) saw it more as a personal deal and he didn't try and change the rest of us, I would be ok with it. I think problems arise when one part feels pressured to be something they can't. Being loved for the way you are is important IMO.

[Amira]

I think any couple is going to have some evolution in their strongly-held beliefs. It is naive to think your partner is going to stay the same or evolve the same way you do for the rest of your lives. Religion isn't the only strongly-held belief where change can seriously impact a marriage.

 

But even if you expect change and are open about it, it still can be really hard if one partner's religious beliefs change radically on something that is a foundation for the marriage. I'm a Mormon and there is a lot of doctrine tied up in our practices about marriage. I've seen Mormon couples whose marriage have not survived faith transitions because they didn't see their spouses as the same person without that faith. But others do fine, although I think it's more about having good communication and respect which are necessary in any healthy marriage.

 

I'm lucky that dh and I have shared the experiences that have changed our faith. We're both still believing, active Mormons, but we're very different from what we were before. We've gone in different directions on some things, but we allow each other to struggle and work things out without worrying that we've lost our eternal salvation. We can work out eternity later; we're going to focus on each other right now.

[Mom-ninja.]

I would have to think about it backwards and imagine dh becoming religious. I really wouldn't have any issue with it unless he started pressuring the kids to follow his religion. Or expected me to. Who he chose to pray to wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

 

I feel this way. If my dh decided to become religious I'd be confused, but I'd bite my tongue. It would be difficult for me to handle certain things if they crept up. I will admit that the religion he chose would play a role in my acceptance/tolerance. My biggest problem would be the kids. I would not be okay with him trying to convert the kids to religion. It would be very hard for them as well because they are also atheists and they would not understand. I'd have to ramp up teaching them about the origins and the whys of religion and spirituality to help them understand what was going on with their dad.

 

When we were dating religion did come up. His family is religious and I let him know that I was not interested in marrying a religious man. When we had our first child I gave him the option of going the religious route if he wanted. I was open to it. He declined pretty strongly. I've changed since then and am no longer open to raising the kids in his family's religion. He remains the same. So, yeah, the hardest part would be the kids.

[Lady Florida.]

I have never heard any Catholic refer to her dh as "the lord of the house," and the few families I knew who said grace, that duty (or privilege, depending on how you look at it I suppose,) seemed to rotate among family members.

 

I never heard of this either, as a cradle Catholic. Catholicism and how it's practiced in the home appears to have changed dramatically since I left the Church 20 years ago. As for grace, when we did say it (which was usually just on holidays and extended family gatherings) we said a specific prayer. It wasn't like in other Christian denominations where you say different words of grace every time. I can still rattle it off from memory even though I haven't said it in more than 20 years-

 

"Bless us o Lord and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty through Christ our lord amen" ...said all in one breath.

 

 

As for the OP, I can only assume that if the marriage is based strongly on religion that's where the problem would lie. Also if one party thinks the non-believing party is going to a different place in the afterlife I guess it would be pretty upsetting.

 

If my husband suddenly found god, I'd feel blindsided but as long as he left me out of it I could handle it. Still, it would most likely change our relationship.

[Crimson Wife]

I wouldn't like it but I could deal with DH changing denominations or even not practicing any faith. But I don't think I could handle him converting to another religion. I married a Christian man and I wouldn't have married him if he had been a member of a non-Christian faith. Sorry, but shared values was one of the things I looked for in a potential spouse.

 

ETA: The reason I could deal with a lapse in his faith is because I've seen plenty of Christians go through a period of spiritual doubt before re-committing to the faith. So it wouldn't seem as permanent a thing as converting to a different religion.

[Murphy101]

I come at this from the opposite perspective. Dh and I were not religious and had no plans to be when we married. I was raised atheist to agnostic at best. Dh found the strict southern baptist of his extended family unpalatable and his parents only went to church bc the grandparents insisted at Easter. Then 5 years into our marriage, I accepted and converted to the Roman Catholic Church.

 

I have said many times that I doubt I would have handled it as easily as dh if dh had been the convert instead of me.

 

By most standards my dh and I are still crazy in love, very close, and very open with each other. He is a wonderful devoted family man and all around good guy. We have our issues, but none of them are fundamental to our relationship. Except for my faith. It's a constant... I don't know what word to use... Separation of hearts... That affects every single day of our lives and the lives of our children. My 7 sons never participate in father/son catholic events. Because their dad is not catholic. And yes, in theory he could go anyways, but people who say that are rather full of crap about reality. For example, camping. A noncatholic nonreligious father is not going to be interested in just standing there while they pray the rosary or have mass at sunrise. If I want them to attend Mass and I get sick - he won't take them. There have been months when I was puking sick and they didn't go unless they could walk there. Faith permeates my every priority and it has zero priority for him. For example, buying a uniform for an extracurricular is a priority, but buying them for confirmation or FHC is not. He doesn't get angry about it, but he views it as not necessary and maybe even wasteful. He used to attend mass with us, but he stopped. I used to go to any parish at any time or any rite he wanted as long as he would come with us, but he finally just said he hates going and doesn't want to and isn't going anymore. Which sucks. Mass was the one event that no matter what every week our entire family did that together. Now it isn't. And of course I worry how this will affect my kids religious formation. And tho my kids and I can freely talk about our faith struggles or belief questions, I have no one in our house to talk to. My dh's response is simply to walk away from it all bc it's just not important.

 

Yes I still love him, think he is a great guy. No, we aren't getting divorced over this and I don't hate him or even feel angry about it. If anything, I blame myself. Much as I know it's not true, I still wonder if I were a better catholic myself if it would sway his heart towards God.

 

But yes, it's painful. Always. Every day. Not a day goes by where his lack of religious belief is not apparent in our lives. We never discuss this around the kids, he is respectful of that. But the lacking is still present. Sometimes it's not what we do or say that leaves the impression, it's what we don't.

 

And I'm not even really all that involved in the Church. Partly because of this. It would greatly aggravate our relationship if I became "too catholic" as my dh calls it. :(

 

ETA: And if one more person IRL tells me I should "pray about that" so help me... Seriously? No freaking kidding. You think? Gee. No, I haven't thought of that at all other than like doing it constantly. :/

 

ETA2: To illustrate the disparity. Contrast my feelings above with asking my dh how my religion affects his life. "Not at all. It's a non issue." He is more involved and interested in my knitting than my religion and he sees nothing wrong with that bc religion in his perspective is completely irrelevant.

 

The irony? For most people, the difficulty with becoming catholic is living the church teachings. No birth control for example being one of the biggest issues. We have never once argued over matters of church social teachings. He is totally on board for them and for the sake of avoiding uncomfortable social situations, he will even say he is christian. But he does not believe in the divinity of Christ, much less the Eucharist and sees no point to religion. And he isn't seeking it. He is entirely content where he is at, or not at, spiritually.

[umsami]

Perhaps my views are colored by having explored many faiths in my lifetime, but it would not affect me much.  However, knowing my husband, it would affect him far more, because being raised Muslim in a Muslim country…. being Muslim is so intimately linked to who he is.  It also has the potential to cause problems with family members.  

 

In theory, a Muslim man can be married to a "chaste" non Muslim woman who is a person of the book… so somebody God is viewed to have given scripture to (Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian.)  But the kids are supposed to be raised Muslim.    Muslim women are not supposed to marry non-Muslim men.   Honestly, I think they have it backward because usually it's the Mom who spends all the time with the kids, so she often passes on her faith/beliefs more readily than fathers…but hey…that's just me.

 

In theory, if DH became an atheist or Hindu or a Pagan, I would be expected to divorce him from an Islamic perspective.  I would not do that, however…as I feel faith is a journey, and I really have no idea what journey God may have planned for him.  There would have to be other issues, say his becoming an alcoholic, that would cause me to take that step.

[Cricket]

In the cases IRL that I've seen, there has been a major shift in the marriage. In each case, it was the dh who left the faith and there was a big change in personality and character. They became very hostile towards religion in general, particularly Christianity, and openly mocked faith. Maybe they were always jerks and it was just their true personalities showing. How to raise the kids also became a huge issue. I don't know what I'd do if my dh suddenly demanded that our kids stop attending church, stop reading Scripture, stop praying as has been the case with several acquaintances. I know this doesn't happen in every situation and I hope for the OP in the other thread that this isn't the case with her.

 

After we had kids, my dh didn't attend church with us. He was always working or hunting. It was hard not to have him there with us. At least he shared the same faith and was supportive of it with the kids. Now that he attends regularly with us, I can see even more how great it is that we are united in that.

 

In our house, faith filters through our discussions and the decisions we make. Faith is a very meaningful thing in our lives, not just what we do on Sundays. I can't imagine not sharing that same pov with my spouse. It would be very difficult. I'd feel like I couldn't share my deepest thoughts and feelings with my own spouse because he wouldn't understand at all.

[Laurie4b]

I don't think it is a denominational issue so much as an issue of the nature of one's faith--though some denominations are explicit about it.  I think for some people, their religious beliefs may be more akin to political beliefs or to certain cultural practices .

 

For others, religion may primarily be about moral choices/character. So if the beliefs change, but the general moral choices don't, no big deal.

 

But for others of us, faith is absolutely core to who they are as a person. Everything is connected to faith, to my relationship with God.  As Patty Joanna said in the other thread, faith is not something that she experiences as being "layered" on. For me, faith is dyed into every cell of my body. It is an organic oneness not something I put off or take up as I have the time or inclination . It's not similar to a hobby or a profession that may change, nor is it similar to a cultural practice which I might shuck off because it no longer fits well. It's not butter on the bread which I could choose not to use and still have a perfectly good piece of bread. It's the yeast *in* the bread, which I cannot get out once it's become incorporated into the bread.

 

Every decision I make, every emotion I feel, every experience I have is connected in some way to my relationship with God. (Sometimes my decisions, etc. are connected to my faith because I realize they are wrong and need to confess and turn from them, but they are still connected because they are filtered through faith.)   If dh suddenly announced he didn't believe (or vice versa) it would be a ripping in the very core of our marriage, no matter how much we love each other as persons, our faith is the most fundamental thing we have in common, and even writing that, I am saying it not as one separate thing, but as the commonality that affects all other commonalities and binds us together.

 

As others have mentioned, there is the eternal aspect of it as well.  Concerns about the impact on the faith of our kids would be major concerns as well.

 

None of this will make sense if your experience of faith is not "dyed into every cell."

 

So for Catholic, Orthodox, & theologically conservative Protestants, the teaching would generally be that one does not make the choice to marry someone outside the faith. Since falling in love and not marrying is a very painful experience, there are strong cautions against dating outside the faith. I will let Catholic and Orthodox speak to how that is viewed if a person within their faith does then choose to marry outside the faith. In conservative Protestant circles with which I am familiar (this may vary)  the person of faith would be seen as having been disobedient in making the marriage, but it would still be considered a full marriage  that once entered into, should be treated as holy. It would not affect their participation in the church except perhaps eligibility for certain offices of the church.

 

The prohibition against marrying outside the faith does not apply if you are in a marriage already and one partner does not believe--either because you converted after the marriage or because your partner switched beliefs after. In that case, the Christian spouse is exhorted to continue to love unconditionally and faithfully, even if the other person changed the foundational rules of the game. They are still committed by their vows to love faithfully until death, unless the partner were to abandon the marriage.

[J-rap]

My husband and I were both young Christians when we married, and have grown and matured and deepened in the faith to the point where it feels as much a part of our lives as breathing.  However, even within the realm of Christianity we have explored different ideas and views and have read and studied about it throughout our marriage.  It is more like an exploration of truth rather than the rituals of a religion.  And so, our views have ebbed and flowed but we are still followers of Christianity.  It's not about the institution of the church for us, so the actual church we attend is not nearly as important as what is going on in our hearts and minds. 

 

If my husband suddenly chose to attend a different denomination within Christianity, I would not have much of a problem with that at all because I know his intellect and would respect that this is the path he needs to be on right now.  If he were to completely leave the faith altogether, it WOULD be very shocking, because it is something that is so big and woven through nearly aspect of our lives.  However -- and this is hard to explain -- I feel that God has intertwined our lives so closely together that even if one of us veers completely out of the faith, we are still like one and would still have God's blessing over living this life together as we sincerely seek the truth, in love.  As long as I knew that my husband was earnestly trying to find what was true in this life, I would respect my husband just as much.  I love him madly and we're there for each other on this sometimes very confusing/sometimes absolutely wonderful journey, no matter what each other is going through.

 

 

[albeto.]

Wow Martha, your story and mine are eerily similar. 

[AimeeM]

This is a hard subject for me.

Yes, I would find it devastating if my husband no longer shared my faith. One of the things we found initially attractive about the other, was the shared faith; he wanted to marry a Catholic woman - I wanted to marry a Catholic man. We both desired that deeply, to the point where we didn't really consider marrying outside our faith (we dated outside our faith, but no serious consideration for marriage).

[Ipsey]

Both my husband and I were very serious Evangelical Christians and missionaries for years. I know that if he had left the faith, I would have been completely devastated.  Fortunately, as we both began to question and doubt our faith, we felt each other out, dropping hints over a couple of years, and we eventually left faith at the same time.

 

It would also have been excruciating if I had stopped believing and he still believed. The no-longer-religious partner hurts too in these situations.

 

Our marriage is as strong and meaningful as it was when we were religious. I wonder what it might feel like if we were at odds on the issue.

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

 

So for Catholic, Orthodox, & theologically conservative Protestants, the teaching would generally be that one does not make the choice to marry someone outside the faith. Since falling in love and not marrying is a very painful experience, there are strong cautions against dating outside the faith. I will let Catholic and Orthodox speak to how that is viewed if a person within their faith does then choose to marry outside the faith. In conservative Protestant circles with which I am familiar (this may vary)  the person of faith would be seen as having been disobedient in making the marriage, but it would still be considered a full marriage  that once entered into, should be treated as holy. It would not affect their participation in the church except perhaps eligibility for certain offices of the church.

 

I can't speak for Orthodox Christians, but for Catholic Christians there is a distinction made between marrying a Christian of another denomination and a non-Christian. It's not really a big deal to marry someone of a different denomination (so long as the children are raised Catholic) but interfaith marriage is heavily discouraged. My mom is Episcopalian and the Catholic priest who married my parents just made her promise to allow my dad to baptize us and raise us as Catholics. The RCC recognizes the validity of baptisms made by other Christian denominations even though RCC doctrine teaches those denominations as not having the Fullness of the Truth.

[chiguirre]

I will let Catholic and Orthodox speak to how that is viewed if a person within their faith does then choose to marry outside the faith.

The RCC doesn't prohibit marrying a non-Catholic. I filled out all the forms as an atheist and did the Pre-Canaa class with no problem. If you've ever been baptized as a RC, you still have to produce an unmarked baptismal certificate to prove you've never been married, even if you no longer identify as a Catholic. Other than that, there really wasn't any extra paperwork or counseling or anything.

[maize]

Marrying within my faith (LDS) was very important to me, and shared religious commitment was one of the most important--maybe the most important--thing I was looking for in a spouse. Raising my children in my faith is also very important to me. I think I would really struggle to co-parent with a spouse who no longer shared that faith. I really think I would experience a departure from the faith as something very akin to a betrayal of marriage vows.

[JustEm]

Its would only affect our marriage if my dh decided to try to teach the children his new belief system.  Prior to marriage he was not a practicing Catholic, he was going to a Protestant church.  I was ok with that but I made it very clear that when we had children they would be raised Catholic.  If he was not ok with that then I could not marry him.  He eventually came back to the Catholic Church before our oldest was born and our faith is a huge part of our lives.  Since raising our children Catholic was a deal breaker for me before marriage it is still a deal breaker if he changes faiths in the future and decides to share that faith with the kids.  I wouldn't divorce him but it would cause a huge strain on our marriage.

[NotSoObvious]

My husband and I both left the Mormon church at the same time after a few years of marriage. I am SO glad we were on the same page because it could have been a deal breaker for us. We were so young and had very defined views about marriage and family expectations. Luckily, we never fit the cultural mold, so our exit was fairly gradual and I don't think came as a shock to anyone. 

 

Like someone said up thread, if he were to go back to the church (he wouldn't) it would be as equally devastating on our marriage, simply because it's the religion we left for very clear reasons. We've dabbled in other faiths, but we've always ended up in the same place, together. I'm so grateful that it's always an open conversation. We read together, we study together, and we talk a lot about our beliefs. I think that's probably true for most successful marriages, especially concerning faith (or lack thereof). 

[Joker]

It's a non issue here. We're even going through the process of becoming Catholic and dh is right there with us every week (not just mass but he goes to RCIA with us as well). He's learned the Rosary so he could do it with us and he prays with us daily and has discussions related to religion with us daily. He knows more than many of those teaching our RCIA class. He loves us and has zero desire to change our beliefs. He has in fact helped me hold onto mine when I was going through a difficult period. He doesn't believe the same things I do but our marriage is stronger than ever and our differing opinions on religion just aren't an issue.

[felicity]

I am a Mormon, my dh who was also Mormon, and I married in the Temple. My dh left the church about 12 years ago. I won't sugar coat it, it is hard. We are a religion that believes that marriage and family last through eternity. It's painful to go to church, see all of the happy families there, listen to the lessons about happy families, and know that mine isn't one that they are talking about. Some of it gets easier though, with the passage of time--I no longer have to wrestle a baby and several other children in the pew for an hour each week. Some gets harder--how do I answer the questions about why Dad doesn't believe anymore and I still do.

 

We are a religion that permeates everything--scripture study daily, prayers multiple times a day, 3-hour Sunday services, activities for children and youth during the week so my dh and I have had to find a middle ground. We've also had to renegotiate things I'd always just taken for granted like baptising our children at eight and ordaining the boys into the priesthood at 12. And personally it did feel like a rejection--what is wrong with me that you don't want to be with me for eternity? Our relationship has also had to change to find new common ground and that's not easy either.

 

Thankfully, I don't know what it's like when a parent leaves the other parent. But I can honestly say that it's been the most challenging and painful thing we've had to go through. There is not a day that goes by that I'm not reminded of what I thought would be our lives and the reality. Thankfully my dh and I have trusted each other enough and wanted to work enough that things are okay. Notwhat I pictured, but good. I leave the eternities and any judgement that will be made to Heavenly Father though. Part of my personal faith is that He knows us well enough that things will work out how they should in the end.

[rocassie]

I imagine that it could be very similar wanting to having children or not.  I very much wanted to have children, and I would have never married someone that did not want to have children or was undecided.  I would have been devastated if my DH decided (before we began trying) that he didn't want children after all.  I'm not sure our marriage could have survived.  If it did survive, it would have taken a lot of grieving and sadness on my part.  

 

For some, religion or shared faith is fundamental to their relationship and shared life.  My DH was an atheist when we met, but he was respectful of my faith and agreed that if we had children, I would raise them in my faith.  My sister, who is an atheist, is very disdainful of any kind of religion and would never be with someone that believed in God or followed any type of religion.  I imagine if her DH decided to practice a faith, start praying aloud before meals, began attending church or other church functions, or going to other social functions that were frequented by many religious people, she would be very upset and the marriage may not survive.

 

 

[HRAAB]

When dh and I married, we were both practicing Catholics.  I will admit it; I was looking for a Catholic husband because I believed that sharing faith would make marriage easier.  Dh was also looking for a Catholic wife for the same reasons.  The fact that we were both practicing Catholics was part of what brought us together.  We practiced our faith together and were raising our children in that faith.  If I had been asked back then how we would react to one of us leaving the faith, my answer would be like what many have shared here: devastation, betrayal, sense of loss.

 

Move forward 16 years, and I am the one losing faith.  I was silent for a couple years, not sharing any of it with dh.  I still vividly remember the night I told him I was losing my faith.  I was afraid for us.  I didn't know what it would do to us.  What I want those on the other side to understand is that living a lie with the person you love most in this world is absolutely destructive.  I actually thought about just going with the flow, pretending, but it was destroying me.  I know 'destroy' sounds overly dramatic, but that is exactly how it felt.  I became depressed and withdrawn and then our marriage started suffering.  I had to trust in his love for me.

 

One thing that I believe helped us is we had 18+ years of marriage to carry us through.  If this had happened earlier on in our marriage, I do think could have been more devastating to us.  As it was, we had built not only a family but an entire relationship over those years that bound us together.  I guess I'm saying even if it was largely religion that brought us together, after 18 years we had shared life to draw on.  We still had our love for each other, the struggles we had been through, the love for our children.  We still valued family, hard work, honesty.  Something we had shared before was gone, true, but we still had our shared lives.  Also, in my particular situation, my dh very much believes everyone has to follow their own conscience, and he greatly respects that right.  He would like it better if I were with the program, but he respects my right to live honestly. He is very confident in what he believes and does.  Deconstructing my faith has not impacted his faith.  I am so thankful that he has been able to allow me to do what I need to do, to be faithful to my conscience.  I would never want to have to choose between my marriage and something so extremely intimate and important beliefs.

 

Regarding children we had both entered into parenthood with the commitment of raising them in the Catholic Church.  Since I was the one who veered from the path, I didn't feel I had any right to try to change that.  My children are being raised Catholic, and out of respect for my dh and family, I take part in many of the rituals.  I honestly don't mind as those rituals are part of my life whether I believe the doctrine behind them or not.  They are part of our family traditions, what we've always done as a family.  That is something I have no desire to disrupt. 

[goldberry]

I think it's different in families where their religion is a major part of their daily lives, and when one spouse leaves the faith, it has a tangible impact on many facets of their lives,

 

That's the core of it.  If your faith is not a major part of your *daily* life, it has much less impact. I can compare different time periods in my own marraige...

 

I stopped believing shortly after I was married.  DH still believed, but was not active, so it never really got brought up, no big deal.  Then after a few years DH became active again.  It did not cause horrible conflict because DH was letting me figure it out on my own (smart man.)  He was very loving and reassuring.  But the undercurrent of tension was there, because as he became more active the more time we spent apart and the more differences arose.  I eventually dealt with some of my issues and was able to restore my faith.  The road, however, was definitely leading to us growing farther apart. 

[ktgrok]

"

 

So for Catholic, Orthodox, & theologically conservative Protestants, the teaching would generally be that one does not make the choice to marry someone outside the faith. Since falling in love and not marrying is a very painful experience, there are strong cautions against dating outside the faith. I will let Catholic and Orthodox speak to how that is viewed if a person within their faith does then choose to marry outside the faith. 

 

In the Catholic church you would be counseled about it seriously, in your premarital counseling. And the non Catholic partner would have to agree to raise the children Catholic. If that was agreed to than they could be married in the Catholic Church, and everything would go on. If the spouse could not...I don't think a priest would agree to marry them. 

[goldberry]

 

Move forward 16 years, and I am the one losing faith.  I was silent for a couple years, not sharing any of it with dh.  I still vividly remember the night I told him I was losing my faith.  I was afraid for us.  I didn't know what it would do to us.  What I want those on the other side to understand is that living a lie with the person you love most in this world is absolutely destructive.  I actually thought about just going with the flow, pretending, but it was destroying me.  I know 'destroy' sounds overly dramatic, but that is exactly how it felt.  I became depressed and withdrawn and then our marriage started suffering.  I had to trust in his love for me.

 

One thing that I believe helped us is we had 18+ years of marriage to carry us through.  If this had happened earlier on in our marriage, I do think could have been more devastating to us.  As it was, we had built not only a family but an entire relationship over those years that bound us together.  I guess I'm saying even if it was largely religion that brought us together, after 18 years we had shared life to draw on.  We still had our love for each other, the struggles we had been through, the love for our children.  We still valued family, hard work, honesty.  Something we had shared before was gone, true, but we still had our shared lives.  

 

:iagree:  :iagree:especially with the bolded.  I have seen cases where the person leaving their faith is also wanting to leave their whole life behind, family included.  But I don't think that is the case most often.  Most often, the person who's beliefs are changing is terrified, but loves their spouse enough that they have to share it with them and be honest.  That was my own case. 

[LucyStoner]

My husband could come home with any religious belief he wanted. I wouldn't mind. Where things could get very dicey would be social and values issues that affected others besides him.

 

If he converted to some patriarchal faith and suddenly believed homosexuality was a mortal sin and told me that he was now on charge of me and the boys and he didn't want my gay brother babysitting or that I needed to drop my graduate school plans because my sphere was now supposed to be in the home only or he was now wanting polygamy or whatnot, well, I can't see that going over too well around here or with this feminist on roller skates. Can you? I've never been one to throw the word "divorce" around but that sort of thinking could escalate to being a deal breaker if it were things he was wanting me or the kids to do radically differently.

 

If he was suddenly eating differently or growing a beard or choosing a different career, that would all be stuff I could accept. He can do what he wants. He just can't demand that others climb aboard.

 

ETA- To be perfectly fair, I could see why it would be a deal breaker for him if all of the reverse scenarios happened.

[Audrey]

I don't expect a spouse to share my religion, only my manners about religion.

 

 

I agree, but I think the other thread was talking about when a person changed -- dramatically and suddenly.  

 

I can see why that would be upsetting. It's shocking -- or, it can be. You think you've married one fellow and then, in a severely short time, a very fundamental (no pun intended) part of him changes 180°.

 

I've thought about this quite a lot since reading the other thread a bit.  I think, in regard to my own husband, it would be a very shocking thing for him to suddenly say, "Honey, I've gone back to the Church and want to bring you and our son into the fold with me."   I would be very worried for the state of his mental health.  I would have to have some very long discussions with him as to what, how and why he has been so drastically influenced to make such a decision.  Depending on what it is that is influencing him, I may try to help him get professional therapy or counseling. 

 

If it were something that really made him happy and it wasn't because of some insidious influence or mental health issue,  and if he could keep his religion to and for himself respectfully, I could live with that.

 

On the other hand, I also think that, although I am very happy with my dh and I love him truly, and would stay married to him as long as he wishes -- I don't think I could continue living with him if he became a proselytizing type of hard-core religious person.   I would find that an egregious breach of respect for who I am, and for who our son is, as well.   I spent too many young, stupid years compromising my integrity as a human being already.  I'm not going back to that again. I just can't.

[maize]

Another thought for those who don't see how this would be a big deal: in my church, it is common to speak of a marriage involving three people: the husband, the wife, and God. If one person chooses to reject God, they are in a real sense changing the terms of the marriage itself. How could that not be a shock?

[Melinda in VT]

Another thought for those who don't see how this would be a big deal: in my church, it is common to speak of a marriage involving three people: the husband, the wife, and God. If one person chooses to reject God, they are in a real sense changing the terms of the marriage itself. How could that not be a shock?

 

The bolded is a common misperception of losing faith.

 

In many (most? all?) cases, it is not a choice. You have experiences, you grow and change, and one day you simply can't see the world the same way you did before.

 

Now, you can choose to be honest about that change or lie about it. And certainly you can choose how many of your behaviors you change because of your change in belief.

 

But the actual belief or lack of it? Not a choice. At least, not here. And not with those I've met on my faith journey.

 

I do understand why a spouse's change in belief can be shocking.

[QueenCat]

I am a Mormon, my dh who was also Mormon, and I married in the Temple. My dh left the church about 12 years ago. I won't sugar coat it, it is hard. We are a religion that believes that marriage and family last through eternity. It's painful to go to church, see all of the happy families there, listen to the lessons about happy families, and know that mine isn't one that they are talking about. Some of it gets easier though, with the passage of time--I no longer have to wrestle a baby and several other children in the pew for an hour each week. Some gets harder--how do I answer the questions about why Dad doesn't believe anymore and I still do.

 

Your dh should be the one explaining what he believes or doesn't believe, and why. He is just as responsible for raising the kids as you are.