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CC: I feel like I've been punched in the gut.


JumpyTheFrog
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Is he the same man otherwise?

That's what I am wondering.  If he is and the only thing that has changed is what he believes in religiously then why is it a devastating thing to you? His beliefs don't affect you unless it changes how he acts towards the family.  He is still the same man you married, declaring that he was no longer a Christian doesn't change that.

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That's what I am wondering. If he is and the only thing that has changed is what he believes in religiously then why is it a devastating thing to you? His beliefs don't affect you unless it changes how he acts towards the family. He is still the same man you married, declaring that he was no longer a Christian doesn't change that.

I don't agree with this. In our family, if DH wasn't a Christian any longer, it would mean a huge lifestyle change for us. We read scripture at dinner, pray before meals, do bible study 2x a week. We go to church meetings on Sundays. We use the Bible as a guide when making decisions. Many many things would change, even if his personality remained the same.

 

It was similar when I became hardcore vegan. Many of our food rituals and entertainment choices had to change. It was hard on DH.

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I don't agree with this. In our family, if DH wasn't a Christian any longer, it would mean a huge lifestyle change for us. We read scripture at dinner, pray before meals, do bible study 2x a week. We go to church meetings on Sundays. We use the Bible as a guide when making decisions. Many many things would change, even if his personality remained the same.

 

It was similar when I became hardcore vegan. Many of our food rituals and entertainment choices had to change. It was hard on DH.

 

Dh is an atheist but does all the above things with us. Hopefully the OP and her dh will be able to come to a compromise about what has to change but it not have to be as much as she thinks.

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I don't agree with this. In our family, if DH wasn't a Christian any longer, it would mean a huge lifestyle change for us. We read scripture at dinner, pray before meals, do bible study 2x a week. We go to church meetings on Sundays. We use the Bible as a guide when making decisions. Many many things would change, even if his personality remained the same.

 

It was similar when I became hardcore vegan. Many of our food rituals and entertainment choices had to change. It was hard on DH.

May I ask a question--and I truly do not mean this to be sarcastic or anything:  why can't your family still do those things?

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My husband did that. In fact, I know a lot of guys who did. It is harsh at first. But if you do as the bible says...model being a good Christian but don't preach it to your husband and other adults, then he will likely come around again. If it were in his heart to begin with, it will come back. 

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May I ask a question--and I truly do not mean this to be sarcastic or anything: why can't your family still do those things?

I don't know many people who don't consider themselves Christian that would want to maintain Christian rituals and lifestyle. Sure I could do that with my kids but for us, it would be a huge shift.

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Thanks for the hugs and prayers everyone. I don't feel comfortable talking about this with anyone in real life, so it means a lot to know that people all over the country or world even are praying for me.

 

I was up until about 6am because I couldn't sleep. I've felt sick to my stomach for much of the day because of my sadness. I realize some of you asked questions but I just can't handle answering any of them right now.

 

I'd appreciate prayers for a good night of sleep. I have terrible problems with insomnia anyway, so adding this stress makes it nearly impossible to sleep.

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Yes.

 

If I am remembering correctly, you were part of a more fundamental evangelical church and left. When we moved away from fundamentalist Christianity the pendulum swung very wide for awhile. It was like I needed to get as far away from where we had been before I could get back to figuring out where I really stood. I was the the same person, I was just figuring out how to articulate what had been at my core all along.

 

I believe God is big enough to handle our seasons of disbelief and questioning.

 

((Hugs)) and prayers.

 

Totally agree with this.

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Thanks for the hugs and prayers everyone. I don't feel comfortable talking about this with anyone in real life, so it means a lot to know that people all over the country or world even are praying for me.

 

I was up until about 6am because I couldn't sleep. I've felt sick to my stomach for much of the day because of my sadness. I realize some of you asked questions but I just can't handle answering any of them right now.

 

I'd appreciate prayers for a good night of sleep. I have terrible problems with insomnia anyway, so adding this stress makes it nearly impossible to sleep.

Don't worry about answering questions or providing any explanations.

 

Concentrate on taking care of yourself, and know that we're all here for you if you need to talk -- and if you don't want to talk, that's OK, too. :grouphug:

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To those that don't see why this isn't a big deal:

 

It IS a big deal. It's not just about rituals, though those are important.

 

It's about agreement on the deepest and most core beliefs we have. It's about feeling separate on what is most important in this life.

 

It's also a deep-seated anxiety to think that the one you love best in the world may suffer from being apart from God in this life and in the next. It's not about achieving enough points to "get into heaven." It is a deeply rooted horror of existence apart from God. It's not merely a philosophical debate--it is about a relationship, about a loss of relationship.

 

Think about how you might feel if your father announced that he was leaving your mother to go live with another woman. If you always thought your parents were happy together, this would be a horrible shock. It would feel wrong on every level. It would be a terrible rip in the relationship. Looking at your parents, you would feel deeply the rift in the relationship. That is how it is to look as a wife on the devastation of a beloved spouse's relationship with God.

 

Yes, they will figure out how to live with this. Yes, the OP's husband must still have the same personality, likes, dislikes, and many of the same values. That doesn't change the reality of the loss or the grief that must accompany that loss.

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That's what I am wondering.  If he is and the only thing that has changed is what he believes in religiously then why is it a devastating thing to you? His beliefs don't affect you unless it changes how he acts towards the family.  He is still the same man you married, declaring that he was no longer a Christian doesn't change that.

 

If your faith has been a shared, important part of your life with your spouse then it can be devastating when you lose this shared thing. It can impact many areas of your life and your family's life. 

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I'm sorry you're so upset, but please remember that he is the same man he was yesterday, and the day before that, and the years before that. He's still the same father to your children that he always was.

 

As long as he hasn't changed as a husband and father, this doesn't have to mean there will be any changes in your day to day life. Many couples have different beliefs, and everything works out fine.

 

I can understand your shock, though, if this seemed to come out of the blue. Thankfully, he was honest with you.

 

I do think the worst thing you can do is to try to pressure him to believe what you believe. It may only serve to push him away. I hope you will try to accept what he's going through and try to be supportive of him, whatever he believes.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

That's what I am wondering.  If he is and the only thing that has changed is what he believes in religiously then why is it a devastating thing to you? His beliefs don't affect you unless it changes how he acts towards the family.  He is still the same man you married, declaring that he was no longer a Christian doesn't change that.

 

This.

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I've been there.  My husband said the same thing about 8 years ago.  It's been rough but we're still married and functioning civilly. I've been drawn closer to God more than ever.  I know what Jesus meant when He said He'd send The Comforter.  I don't just know about Him, I know Him. He's been so faithful to comfort me. I'm far enough through it to understand what a blessing it is even though it's very painful sometimes.

 

My husband has also gone through a personality change and yes, his character too. It's not easy to watch regression, but my faith isn't in circumstances or understanding or familiarity or anything other than the unwavering nature of the Triune God making Himself known to me in many different, extravagant ways in spite of everything.  I'm stunned and amazed that the God of the Universe is so attentive and responsive to me.  It's not just me, his family (including our older two daughters) friends and co-workers have noticed the dramatic change too.

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Many, many, many Christians marry their spouse based on a shared Christian faith.  For many, this would be a non-negotiable.  This makes sense for quite a lot of reasons (faith-based reasons, to be sure, but no less real). They probably wouldn't have chosen said person if that person wasn't actively living a Christian life.  Yes, there's romantic love, and friendship, and passion, but part of all those things is the sharing of their belief in God through Christ. So of course it can be devastating/heartbreaking when one spouse says they don't have that faith anymore.  One of the main reasons they married in the first place is gone. If someone who married as described above is now facing a future of uncertainty (Will he come back to the faith?  How will we "do religion" in our family now? Is training our children in these things now all up to me?  Will he discourage/forbid me from trying to train them to live as Christians?  Will we be at odds all the time now?  Will he leave me because he thinks I'm cuckoo for maintaining faith?), it isn't at all confusing why they might be "devastated." 

 

That said, I do believe God has a way of continuing to live positively, lovingly and even thankfully in this situation.  The two are married and there can be mutual respect and even still friendship, romance, and passion. 

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To those that don't see why this isn't a big deal:

 

It IS a big deal. It's not just about rituals, though those are important.

 

It's about agreement on the deepest and most core beliefs we have. It's about feeling separate on what is most important in this life.

 

It's also a deep-seated anxiety to think that the one you love best in the world may suffer from being apart from God in this life and in the next. It's not about achieving enough points to "get into heaven." It is a deeply rooted horror of existence apart from God. It's not merely a philosophical debate--it is about a relationship, about a loss of relationship.

 

Think about how you might feel if your father announced that he was leaving your mother to go live with another woman. If you always thought your parents were happy together, this would be a horrible shock. It would feel wrong on every level. It would be a terrible rip in the relationship. Looking at your parents, you would feel deeply the rift in the relationship. That is how it is to look as a wife on the devastation of a beloved spouse's relationship with God.

 

Yes, they will figure out how to live with this. Yes, the OP's husband must still have the same personality, likes, dislikes, and many of the same values. That doesn't change the reality of the loss or the grief that must accompany that loss.

 

Nailed it.

 

I was going to come aboard to say many of the things HarrietVane said (and by the way, I am writing this while we are watching Strong Poison on DVD) and so I will not repeat what she has already said so well.  

 

The things that I would have added are these:

 

People don't understand that when one is a Christian, it is not something one layers on to a persona, sort of like putting on the Christian pants before putting on the socks and shoes.  It is ontological--part of who one IS, part of one's *being*.  At least that is how it is for me.  My dh did not attend church for nearly 20 years, but he did not renounce his *being* Christian.  He had very good reasons for not attending church but had he come to me and said he *was* (ontological) no longer Christian, I would have felt to some degree married to a stranger...someone I never knew.  It's not just about what you do (go to church, read the Bible together) but who you are.  

 

So, Hoppy, I get it.  I know why you are sleepless.  You aren't married to the same person you married at this point.  What you *do* with that...that is hard to know.  I think there is probably a strong basis for going forward, and I totally believe the following things:

 

1.  You take care of your own spirit, soul, life.  You continue what you have done with your children.

2.  You love your husband and entrust him to Christ.  

3.  You zip your lip.  You live your Christian life, and you do not leave stickies with Bible verses on the fridge or make strong hints about going to church.  You DO ask him to church on Christmas and Easter.  Invite, not command.  No one has ever been nagged or guilted to Christ.  Christ woos us with his love.  That's what you do.  Be like Christ.  

 

I'm sorry.  This is a cross, and you were promised that...that it is this particular cross is a surprise.  But you be faithful to both Christ and your husband.

 

(((HtT)))

 

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  You aren't married to the same person you married at this point.  

 

She is married to the same person she was married to 48 hours ago. 

 

The OP's husband respected her enough to not lie to her, to share something that puts him in a position of vulnerability rather than patronize her by protecting her like an emotionally fragile child, and now it seems he has joined the ranks of the most distrusted, feared, and loathed group in America - the atheist.

 

If his reality is like many atheists who have "come out" to Christian loved ones, he faces the very real possibility of being treated like a Spiritually Walking Dead Man, a kind of Soul Leper, capable of "infecting" others. I hope the OP can learn to see this experience from his point of view and resist the temptation to feel she's been spiritually widowed. 

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Yes, she is married to the same person.  But not to the same person she *thought* she was married to.  

In no way did I recommend anything but love toward the dh.  But it is unfair to expect Hoppy to act as though nothing has happened.  

 

It is a great credit to the marital relationship that he could be honest with her.  And that he could be honest with himself--some marriages do not even allow for that.  

 

I don't know that this matters at ALL in this particular conversation, but I will say it anyway.  I have LONG been irritated by the idea that "faith" (an inadequate word) is something that is "layered on" to one's persona. I'm not talking about here on the boards necessarily, but in the media.  My Christianity is what I do *because* it is who I AM...a Christian...but in the popular and prevalent media, it is not presented that way.  I'm not trying to argue; I'm trying to explain.  

 

So when my dh was not attending church with me for 20 years, it was a PITB because what he DID had an impact on what I DID; but it didn't have a big impact on our marriage because it was not about who he WAS.  

 

Maybe that doesn't make sense, but it is the best I can do to explain it...and maybe it will help explain why Hoppy feels gut-punched.

 

 

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She is married to the same person she was married to 48 hours ago.

 

The OP's husband respected her enough to not lie to her, to share something that puts him in a position of vulnerability rather than patronize her by protecting her like an emotionally fragile child, and now it seems he has joined the ranks of the most distrusted, feared, and loathed group in America - the atheist.

 

If his reality is like many atheists who have "come out" to Christian loved ones, he faces the very real possibility of being treated like a Spiritually Walking Dead Man, a kind of Soul Leper, capable of "infecting" others. I hope the OP can learn to see this experience from his point of view and resist the temptation to feel she's been spiritually widowed.

I think you may be jumping to conclusions here.

 

I think Hoppy got a big shock and came here to vent about it. She is obviously very upset, but I don't believe for a moment that she has the slightest intention of fearing, loathing, or distrusting her dh as a result of his confession to her.

 

Her religion is obviously very important to her. I can't speak for you, but I know I don't have her depth of conviction, so I can't relate to her feeling of heartbreak, but I sincerely doubt she's going to start treating her dh as a "spiritually walking dead man." My best guess is that they will work together and deal with it as a couple, and that hopefully everything will be OK.

 

I'm thinking of this as being like any situation where someone is completely blindsided with shocking news they hadn't expected to hear in a million years. It's going to take her a little while to get her bearings, but she's a strong woman and I think she and her dh will be just fine.

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Many, many, many Christians marry their spouse based on a shared Christian faith. For many, this would be a non-negotiable. This makes sense for quite a lot of reasons (faith-based reasons, to be sure, but no less real). They probably wouldn't have chosen said person if that person wasn't actively living a Christian life. Yes, there's romantic love, and friendship, and passion, but part of all those things is the sharing of their belief in God through Christ. So of course it can be devastating/heartbreaking when one spouse says they don't have that faith anymore. One of the main reasons they married in the first place is gone. If someone who married as described above is now facing a future of uncertainty (Will he come back to the faith? How will we "do religion" in our family now? Is training our children in these things now all up to me? Will he discourage/forbid me from trying to train them to live as Christians? Will we be at odds all the time now? Will he leave me because he thinks I'm cuckoo for maintaining faith?), it isn't at all confusing why they might be "devastated."

 

That said, I do believe God has a way of continuing to live positively, lovingly and even thankfully in this situation. The two are married and there can be mutual respect and even still friendship, romance, and passion.

 

It is the feeling of betrayal.....as if you've been tricked. When my XH left our Faith, stopped being an active member of our religion, I was really really angry. It took me a long time to learn to deal with him in kindness. I once told him it was as if he had a mistress, that is how painful it was for me. Later he DID commit adultery and just as I suspected it felt similar. Except with the adultery I had the scriptural right to divorce him and I did. As I read over what I just wrote it seems as if I had not been so angry he might not have cheated on me. Maybe. The point though is that it altered our relationship in a very fundamental way.

 

But that doesn't have to be the way it goes for OP. I second the advise to zip your lip.....but at the same time find ways to cope with your own sadness and anger and feelings of loss. Venting here is good.

 

Families need traditions.....so I find it helpful to create traditions for your family in addition to your religious ones. That way you share something with your dh that doesn't leave both of you feeling uncomfortable or hypocritical.

 

I am sorry. I know this is rough. Hang in there.

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The advice to "zip" it is good. Hopefully, it works both ways. It is equally difficult when the party who has changed his/her mind about one of the foundational issues in the marriage starts criticizing the former faith (and the partner who still embraces it). That's true even when the change isn't to complete unbelief but a different "flavor" of Christianity. Ideally, the nonbeliever will still respect his/her spouse enough to support their continuing to practice. That's especially important when children are involved and where there has been an understanding that the kids will be raised a certain way. It's VERY difficult to work things out when your spouse takes the attitude that "I've been enlightened and now you all need to follow along with me."

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It's OK. He didn't say he doesn't believe in God. He's just rejecting a religion that isn't working. Personally I think it's a good thing. Christians have been the biggest influence on my own crisis of faith. 

 

Find out what/who his crisis of faith is coming from. Encourage him to study more about his faith. 

 

For me it was the need to discover the deep end of my faith -- getting away from the "God is my friend" mentality. I needed to rediscover that God is God. Tozer's books on the attributes of God really were an eye opener to me. 

 

If I could, I would take my whole family to a very fundamental church. My DH is against it. But faith, belief is where were meet, not on which church we attend. He understands that and we respect each other where we're at. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Yes, she is married to the same person.  But not to the same person she *thought* she was married to.

 

None of us are. A year of marriage reveals this.

 

In no way did I recommend anything but love toward the dh.  But it is unfair to expect Hoppy to act as though nothing has happened.

 

Love through fear or pity is not likely to escape his awareness, and I'm not suggesting Hoppy should act as nothing happened.

 

 

 

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That's what I am wondering.  If he is and the only thing that has changed is what he believes in religiously then why is it a devastating thing to you? His beliefs don't affect you unless it changes how he acts towards the family.  He is still the same man you married, declaring that he was no longer a Christian doesn't change that.

 

If their daily lives were previously deeply rooted in their shared beliefs, yes it will absolutely change things - and change him, the dynamics of the household, and how the children are raised.

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Would you feel the same way if your spouse (assuming he is atheist) suddenly declared he was evangelical protestant and would be living out his life as such? I mean - can you honestly say that you would be okay with that, have no problem with your children being exposed to that (and since that is their father, he has every right to involve them in his newly discovered religious life), and feel that you were still married to the same man?

She is married to the same person she was married to 48 hours ago. 

 

The OP's husband respected her enough to not lie to her, to share something that puts him in a position of vulnerability rather than patronize her by protecting her like an emotionally fragile child, and now it seems he has joined the ranks of the most distrusted, feared, and loathed group in America - the atheist.

 

If his reality is like many atheists who have "come out" to Christian loved ones, he faces the very real possibility of being treated like a Spiritually Walking Dead Man, a kind of Soul Leper, capable of "infecting" others. I hope the OP can learn to see this experience from his point of view and resist the temptation to feel she's been spiritually widowed. 

 

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I am going to say more of what I meant in my post I made here.

 

My dh did that. It was horrifying for me. He refused to have anything to do with church or Christian activities. He would even laugh or otherwise make fun of it at times. He would make generalizations "all Christians....." and it was insulting. 

 

I realized my constant berating him was not working. It would never work. Would it work if someone constantly got upset with you over your religion and tried to convert you? Or anything else...like you brush your teeth wrong and do it with the other hand. Told you that you were not allowed to home school? Just something. Anyway, it only keeps him in fight mode. Fight mode has a barricaded mind. In fight mode, the bridge is draw, the gates are manned, and weapons are drawn. 

 

You have to be a good example, not a preachy or scorned one. He needs time to relax, take down his defenses. He eventually, and it will take time, will let down the draw bridge and let you in again. You do not just preach then. You just let him see that Christianity is good. You bear good fruit. He knows what is in the bible, he knows what is at church. He does not need you, or anyone else, to tell him. He was already a Christian, he knows this stuff. What he needs now is for his heart to soften and let Christ back in. And he will not do that while he feels in defense mode.

 

Now, on that note, take a lot of care with the kids. Do not stay quiet with them. I am not saying trash on their dad. I am saying, though, keep up with your religious raising of them. I let my oldest slip through the cracks while my dh was going through this. In fact, my dh seeing what my son is doing now is what got him to change his ways. I had it hard because dh would make trashing remarks about Christians and Christianity. Now my oldest son is a raging athiest. He refuses to even go inside a church with us on the holiday. We told him we are not trying to convert him, but that during his life, we have attending religious events for people of other religions when visiting them. And it is reasonable to ask that he go to church with us Christmas Eve when he is our guest in our house. We have gone to religious celebrations of other religions around the Holidays with other people too. We were not pretending to have converted. We were just their guests. There is nothing wrong with it. But he was being insulting and saying rotten things previously, just like his dad. He was his dad's echo. Now he has stopped them too. But I doubt he will ever become a Christian again, ever. So, with the kids, if your dh is being insulting or making remarks or anything else, I would definitely call him out on that.

 

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I am a Mormon, my dh who was also Mormon, and I married in an LDS Temple. My dh left the church about 12 years ago and more recently decided that he is an atheist and that religion in general is what's wrong with the world. I won't sugar coat it, it is hard. We are a religion that believes that marriage and family last through eternity. It's painful to go to church, see all of the happy families there, listen to the lessons about happy families, and know that mine isn't one that they are talking about. Some of it gets easier though, with the passage of time--I no longer have to wrestle a baby and several other children in the pew for an hour each week. Some gets harder--how do I answer the questions about why Dad doesn't believe anymore and I still do.


 


I know that Mormons aren't always seen as "Christians" on this board, but I've been in this position. My advice after dealing with this for so long? Pray. A lot. Talk to your husband. Let him talk to you. That's one thing I wish I'd done when things were first happening. Realize that you are mourning for what you thought would be and that's okay. I followed the cycles of mourning and realized that it is a cycle. You might find yourself back on "anger" again in a year. I'm pretty sure I cried every day for a year and I still have things that make me cry. I worry about my kids and whether they will have a strong enough foundation to stay but I also know that would be true if this wasn't happening. I've stopped worrying about what might happen after death. I can't control it and I can't deal with it, so I don't. Be kind to yourself. It won't always feel like it does now. That punched in the gut feeling? I know that feeling and it will fade. You'll find a new normal and it will be acceptable. Not perfect, but acceptable. Love your husband for the man he is now. I know that he's made a huge, life-altering decision, but hopefully you can find the things that haven't changed and hold onto them. I hope something in this helps.


 


Hugs and prayers for this trial you didn't choose. 


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If two people were professing believers living their daily lives out in faith, when one leaves if affects everything everyday:

 

1. motivations

2. goals

3. worldview

4. identifying and solving problems

 

 

Daily decisions that are directly affected by those things include, but are not limited to the categories of:

 

1. Childrearing

2. Financial habits and goals

3. Philosophy/politics/ideology

4. Lifestyle decisions

 

Someone may be the same person in name and body, but leaving or changing faith can change a person mentally, emotionally, spiritually, etc.  Intimacies and lives built on shared convictions change dramatically when they are no longer shared.  Marriages can be completely transformed just like people can be. Sometimes it's for better and sometimes it isn't.  It's a very unwise thing to tell someone not be upset when that happens. It reeks of ignorance.

The OP will need to grieve before she can move on emotionally.  That's what humans are designed to do when they experience a significant loss.  That doesn't mean the marriage will end, but it will be a different marriage either temporarily or permanently and it's important that she grieve the loss of the shared life, goals, motivations, convictions, choices that make up a marriage of shared faith and the dynamics that characterize it.  They're not going to be there the same way and it's going to take a whole lot of wisdom, failure, frustration, confusion and grace to restart a new marriage and figure everything out all over again.

 

OP, I wish I could tell you that people with good intentions won't say dumb things, but that's the human condition.  It's very difficult to image the depth and breadth a change of faith has in a marriage if one of the couple is devout in their faith by people outside the faith or of different views on the same faith label.  Each of us has probably said something dumb out of good intentions a handful of times at least, so it's understandable but it's still frustrating.  Focus on your faith and responding to your husband and others they God wants you to-He'll handle the rest.  He won't always handle it the way you want but He will handle it.

 

I don't know what your denomination or music preferences are, so here are two that cover each end of the spectrum and have been a comfort to me:

 

Be Still My Soul-traditional

 

Cornerstone-contemporary

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I only needed to read the title of this thread to know what it was about. I know bc I'm going through this with my husband right now too. It is devastating. Completely devastating. I hope you have someone you can talk to about this. I have one friend I talk to about it, and I don't know what I would do without her.

It's been over a year since my husband became an atheist, but my eyes tear up when I think about it as though it happened yesterday. The hardest part is the children -I could handle it so much better if it were just the two of us.

It has changed me - and us. Honestly, I really struggle with my faith now. It's difficult to believe in God when your husband, who is very much a part of you, doesn't believe anymore. What has helped me the most is to try and understand where he's coming from. I know he loves our family more than anything else in this world. There is no way he would walk away from God and lead his family in a direction he thought could lead us to hell. No way. He challenged me to read a book that I want you to consider reading. It is not for the faint of heart. It is called 50 Questions for Every Christian. It will take courage to read it bc it will challenge everything you believe in. Do it for your husband and your marriage. He will be touched that you are trying to understand where he's coming from, and he will be impressed with your courage. And it does take courage to truly examine your faith. Hugs to you!

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