Remind me how to respond when someone says I'm taking money away

[3lilreds in NC]

from public schools by keeping my kids at home. I know passing the bean dip is in order - I'm not upset or feeling defensive, just wondering how to best represent the homeschool side of the debate.

 

My parents were just here for the weekend, and we had a lovely time. However, my dad just could not resist sharing how he really nettled another homeschooler by telling him that by keeping his 5 children at home, he's keeping their local public school from receiving about $13K which would allow them to hire 2 more teachers (which it would not but that is not the point). He lives in Michigan, which has a very strong teacher's union, and my parents always were and still are huge advocates of public school. He says that instead of homeschooling, parents should be working in the system to improve it.

 

I don't actually care if the schools get less money because I don't send my children, but that's probably not a helpful thing to say. I didn't argue with him on this (score one for me and my self-control :lol:) but I would love to be able to discuss this intelligently. You can point me towards books/articles if you want.

[sunshine_librarian]

Where I live the school system still gets the money, because it is distributed based on Census numbers, not actual enrollment. Sometimes I think it might be worth it to figure out how to get the $5k per kid to buy my curriculum. Then I remind myself that we have pretty loose reporting standards and having access to that money would probably change things.

[littlebug42]

Well, by homeschooling my kids, that is two less that they have to pay to educate, feed etc and I am helping the other kids by helping keep class sizes smaller. Also, they get my property tax money to use without have to educate another child with it. I am lucky though because all I have to do is mention what district I live in and everyone instantly understands why I homeschool. It is one of the worst districts in the state.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My response: :smilielol5:

 

I would just say that I pay my taxes which go to the schools as well as other government funded areas. Then I'd pass the bean dip. But if pressed, I might be tempted to say that they already waste the money I pay in taxes so I'm not inclined to give them more with my child's attendance. Plus - this isn't why we put kids in school! We put them into school to educate them. If the school isn't giving my money's worth on education then I'm not going to throw good money after bad.

[Slartibartfast]

Well, by homeschooling my kids, that is two less that they have to pay to educate, feed etc and I am helping the other kids by helping keep class sizes smaller. Also, they get my property tax money to use without have to educate another child with it. I am lucky though because all I have to do is mention what district I live in and everyone instantly understands why I homeschool. It is one of the worst districts in the state.

 

:iagree:

 

I pay property taxes so they have that money. Schools here are terrible.

[Rhonda in TX]

Technically what he says is true (here in Texas it's based on enrollment numbers), but who cares? I do what's best for my kids. Period.

 

And $13000 will pay for two teachers?? Really??

[kokotg]

Since you pay the same amount of money in taxes as you would if your kids went to school, the argument seems kind of silly. You're not homeschooling in order to keep money away from the schools. It seems to me that it would make just as much sense to argue that people who choose not to have kids at all are depriving schools of money. Or people who stop at 2 kids instead of having 8 or 9.

[chiguirre]

Here they do lose the enrollment-based money, but they don't have to buy another set of textbooks, provide classroom space and 1/22 of a teacher for dd and 1/? of a special ed teacher and aide for ds, etc. They're definitely saving money on us.

 

ETA: Ds1's school costs $50K a year. There are school districts that send kids there instead of teaching them in-house, so that gives you some idea of how expensive some sn kids can be to a district. (And how happy they are when those kids are pulled to homeschool).

Edited April 18, 2011 by chiguirre

[LG Gone Wild]

You could just tell them that they aren't looking at it the right way round. You are actually paying TWICE - property taxes and the cost of homeschool.

[Carol in Cal.]

"It's funny how differently school financing works from one place to another, isn't it. I actually don't mind paying all those taxes just to educate other people's children. I think that that is the right thing to do for society as a whole. Wow, is that bean dip over there? Love that old family recipe. Could you pass it to me, please? By the way, how are your irises doing this year?"

[AvasMom]

I would just say that I don't have any obligation to the public school system whatsoever. The assumption that I do is annoying.

[Nestof3]

Ummm -- wouldn't they only need the money for your child if your child attended school?

 

If not, then something is surely amiss.

[momofkhm]

This may not help the argument with your father, but money doesn't seem to be the issue. I found sources for what I'm about to say. (:001_smile:) First let me say, I don't see a date on this data!

 

Only 2 countries spend more per secondary student than we do - Switzerland and Austria. But in terms of PISA scores, many countries out score us. Switzerland is above us in science, math and reading. Austria is above us in science, but not on the chart in reading and math (I didn't read the article. I know I should!)

 

Japan is always ahead of US but spends almost $2,000 less per student. Most of the countries listed ahead of the US aren't even on the spending chart. So I really don't think that extra $13K in one school is going to help us out globally.

 

spending chart

 

PISA scores

[Impish]

My response: :smilielol5:

 

I would just say that I pay my taxes which go to the schools as well as other government funded areas. Then I'd pass the bean dip. But if pressed, I might be tempted to say that they already waste the money I pay in taxes so I'm not inclined to give them more with my child's attendance. Plus - this isn't why we put kids in school! We put them into school to educate them. If the school isn't giving my money's worth on education then I'm not going to throw good money after bad.

:iagree:

[clarkacademy]

Ask him if the schools get all this money then why are they so crummy? You can pour billions into that system and it will not work with the way it is ran. It will not work with teachers who are so worried about job loss they teach to a test, students who have 0 respect and are not disciplined. When schools actually try and take a stand you have way too many parents crying lawsuit, it's unfair etc. Public school is a sad institution and it has fallen from what it was originally intended.

[Mom0012]

My response: :smilielol5:

 

I would just say that I pay my taxes which go to the schools as well as other government funded areas. Then I'd pass the bean dip. But if pressed, I might be tempted to say that they already waste the money I pay in taxes so I'm not inclined to give them more with my child's attendance. Plus - this isn't why we put kids in school! We put them into school to educate them. If the school isn't giving my money's worth on education then I'm not going to throw good money after bad.

 

:iagree: Plus, really what can any of us accomplish as far as change by sending our individual kids to school? I doubt that's the level where real change can be made. It seems like even many teachers feel their hands are tied.

 

Lisa

[EJCMom]

I would say, "Even if that is true, I can't spend my emotional energy feeling bad about that. My primary responsibility is to my own children and to making sure that they receive the best education possible. Even if I were to put my kids in public school and devote my energy to improving the system, it would likely take longer than my children will be in school to actually realize any improvement in the system. So, that brings me back to the point that my primary responsibility is to make sure that my own children receive the best education possible."

[TheAutumnOak]

And $13000 will pay for two teachers?? Really??

 

I feel sorry for those teachers :001_unsure:

[CatMomof3]

:iagree: No wonder they always asking for pay raises.

[elise1mds]

Oh, for pity's sake. Personally, I'd be throwing the idea out there that having MY two kids in the system would cost them more than they'd get in extra funding because DS would need an IEP and DD is more than likely to need one, too. And I know for sure that $13K would barely hire ONE special needs assistant... and we live in a state that pays teachers pittance!

 

:rant:

 

FWIW, I've got no problems paying my property taxes and would love to see the schools get better. I might even send DD. But two students and one active mother does not a better system make.

[Tap]

Here the money goes to the school your assigned to. Even if you are a home schooler, you are required to register your home district. The school gets the money regardless if we attend or not.

 

If we enroll in a public school/home school program in another district, the assigned district has to release funding to the other district.

 

I know that some of the funding is based on attendance on certain days of the year, but as a base line, they still get the bulk of the funding.

 

 

 

To people who live in districts where the funding is based on enrollment..... (if you don't have to register your homeschool/file a 'declaration of intent to homeschool' like we do), I guess I would want to know where them money is going then. I assume you still pay the same property taxes....so where is the money going from all the homeschoolers who are not assigned to a school. Even if it isn't going directly to a school, is it still ear marked for education (via levys) and used in other ways?

[mrs.m]

I would ask if they would ask a private school family the same question. (might not work in the case of your father but works great with neighbors that outright oppose what I'm doing since the neighborhood PS is so wonderful.)

 

Generally I find it isn't that they care about the public school finances, it's more questioning my choice to home educate and grasping to find something to convince me that I am the problem with society today since I'm not a sheeple. :glare:

 

I don't understand government mathematics. They don't seem to use addiction and subtraction when it comes to funding. If it was going to allow for more teachers in the schools, then why was my DD in a class of 30 in 2nd grade in a PS that was being paid for each student enrollment? I never saw that equalling more teachers and rather more complaints that there isn't "enough money to teach all these students". All I was doing was contributing to the over population of a public system that needs relief for those who find it necessary. I'm giving back to the system by keeping my kids at home. ;)

Edited April 18, 2011 by jannylynn
typo

[*Lulu*]

from public schools by keeping my kids at home. I know passing the bean dip is in order - I'm not upset or feeling defensive, just wondering how to best represent the homeschool side of the debate.

 

My parents were just here for the weekend, and we had a lovely time. However, my dad just could not resist sharing how he really nettled another homeschooler by telling him that by keeping his 5 children at home, he's keeping their local public school from receiving about $13K which would allow them to hire 2 more teachers (which it would not but that is not the point). He lives in Michigan, which has a very strong teacher's union, and my parents always were and still are huge advocates of public school. He says that instead of homeschooling, parents should be working in the system to improve it.

 

I don't actually care if the schools get less money because I don't send my children, but that's probably not a helpful thing to say. I didn't argue with him on this (score one for me and my self-control :lol:) but I would love to be able to discuss this intelligently. You can point me towards books/articles if you want.

 

I think I would sweetly smile and very innocently say, "You mean the schools receive more in funding per child than the cost of that child's education? Wow, I wonder where all that extra goes?"

[Plucky]

from public schools by keeping my kids at home. I know passing the bean dip is in order - I'm not upset or feeling defensive, just wondering how to best represent the homeschool side of the debate.

 

My parents were just here for the weekend, and we had a lovely time. However, my dad just could not resist sharing how he really nettled another homeschooler by telling him that by keeping his 5 children at home, he's keeping their local public school from receiving about $13K which would allow them to hire 2 more teachers (which it would not but that is not the point). He lives in Michigan, which has a very strong teacher's union, and my parents always were and still are huge advocates of public school. He says that instead of homeschooling, parents should be working in the system to improve it.

 

I don't actually care if the schools get less money because I don't send my children, but that's probably not a helpful thing to say. I didn't argue with him on this (score one for me and my self-control :lol:) but I would love to be able to discuss this intelligently. You can point me towards books/articles if you want.

 

As a side note, I'm surprised your dad even said that to you. Does he support your hsing? Is he normally so socially inept? :)

[Swirl]

...and my parents always were and still are huge advocates of public school. He says that instead of homeschooling, parents should be working in the system to improve it.

 

I'm just curious. How are your parents currently PERSONALLY involved in finding solutions to fix the problems in our public schools? (Not counting complaining.:)) Obviously your father is very concerned. Does he work with legislators? Has he run for the school board?

Edited April 18, 2011 by Swirl

[Mimm]

I would say that my obligation is to my child not to the school district. They can't honestly expect me to do NOT make the best choices I can for my child for the sake of a school district. I find that a very bizarre objection to homeschooling.

[Ottakee]

But what would they do if ALL of the homeschoolers suddenly went to public school?

 

The education fund is only so big. The pot only hold so much money. Yes, they get an amount per pupil but if suddenly they had thousands of more kids to educate they wouldn't have more money in the pot so they would have to give each school less per kid, right?

[arghmatey]

How about, "I already waste my tax money on the broken system. That's good enough for me."

[ChemMommy]

I've been tempted to say that they were costing the school district money by NOT having more children. IOW, if you reproduced more, you'd help your school district more. LOL

 

OR

 

Do childless couples also cost the school district money? Isn't it their civic duty to have kids???

 

But, then, wisdom prevails (mostly) and I pass the bean dip by say that at least the district isn't spending money on my kids.

[unsinkable]

Did someone already mention that maybe in Michigan it is $13000/student so that times 5 kids would be $65,000 so maybe the math is right? It would equal 2 teachers if that was the case.

 

I'd tell that person to MYOB.

 

Or not. I'd probably get upset and look to you ladies for sympathy.

[KrissiK]

It's already been said before, but you are already funding the PS system by your taxes, but also, what difference does it make between sending your kids to a private school or homeschooling where the school district is concerned? I know a lot people wouldn't homeschool, but I'm pretty sure that if they could afford it, most people would probably send their kids to private school (either religious or non-religious) as opposed to their local public school. At least that's the case with all the non-homeschoolers I know.

[bettyandbob]

I personally wouldn't respond. There's nothing you can say to someone like this.

[lionfamily1999]

You could ask them when they're expecting their next little bundle of local school funding. I mean, them holding back on having children means they are robbing the local school system.

[Dmmetler]

I figure that since my DD would cost MORE to educate than the average child, since she qualifies for an IEP, I'm saving them money and keeping classes easier for the teachers to manage by keeping my little dodecahedron out of their round holes (DD's response when her kindergarten teacher explained "Square peg in a round hole" was "I think I'm a dodecahedron". It was very soon after that when her K teacher encouraged us to homeschool).

[Impish]

You could ask them when they're expecting their next little bundle of local school funding. I mean, them holding back on having children means they are robbing the local school system.

:lol:

[Debbie in OR]

I tried to read all the responses but did mostly a cursory reading so I don't know if anyone mentioned this but check out the book The Harsh Truth About Public Schools by Bruce Shortt. It is decidely Christian but it has great information on the allocation of funds in schools, etc...

 

It was written a few years ago so the stats will be taken from then but it is still very interesting and eye-opening reading.

 

By the way, Bruce Shortt's bio is pretty impressive:

 

Bruce Shortt attended public schools through 12th grade; his mother was public school nurse; and, both of his grandmothers were public school teachers. His is a graduate of Harvard Law School, has a Ph.D. from Stanford University, was a Fulbright Scholar, and serves on the boards of directors of the Houston Ebony Music Society and the Exodus Mandate. He is a member of the North Oaks Baptist Church and currently practices law in Houston, Texas, where he resides with his wife and homeschool their sons. Mr. Shortt and T.C. Pinckney were co-sponsors of the Christian Education Resolution that was submitted for consideration at the 2004 Annual Meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention.

[74Heaven]

Flabbergasted.

 

A better question is what is the STATE doing with the money that they are *not* sending to the local school district? The pot of money (REVENUE) that the state takes is the same regardless of how many students are being educated by the various local school districts. The taxes are the same for all of us whether we home-educate or not? Maybe your FIL could do an expose on what is happening to all that money? That money is going somewhere in the state - and my guess would be that the state public school bureaucracy is *spending* the money somewhere.

 

Don't teacher's unions routinely battle (or work hand-in-hand with the state supt.) I would kindly suggest to your fil that the question is very legitimate - he should certainly ask it at the state level since it doesn't have *anything* to do with local homeschoolers?

 

Lisaj

[Audrey]

I would just say that I don't have any obligation to the public school system whatsoever. The assumption that I do is annoying.

 

:iagree: I wonder what he'd say to a childless couple? "You're holding back the schools by not producing children and sending them there. Why with just 10 or 12 kids you could fund 50 teachers!"

 

:001_rolleyes:

[6packofun]

LOL!!! That's a good response!

[Mommy22alyns]

My response: :smilielol5:

 

 

:iagree:

[amsunshine]

I personally wouldn't respond. There's nothing you can say to someone like this.

 

:iagree:

 

Honestly, people like this are already convinced they are right and are just looking for a debate to convince you that you are wrong. The most frustrating thing for someone like this would be if you just didn't engage. Further, by not engaging, you save your own emotional energy.

 

Of course, it's fun to have imaginary debates in your head with people like this where you can get in lots of zingers.:D

 

But after your imaginary conversation, you can just smile and ask, now where did that bean dip go?

[Leav97]

But what would they do if ALL of the homeschoolers suddenly went to public school?

 

The education fund is only so big. The pot only hold so much money. Yes, they get an amount per pupil but if suddenly they had thousands of more kids to educate they wouldn't have more money in the pot so they would have to give each school less per kid, right?

 

Exactly, and don't forget all of the private schooled students. If homeschoolers should be forced into public schools so should the private schoolers.

[Karis]

My response: :smilielol5:

 

I would just say that I pay my taxes which go to the schools as well as other government funded areas. Then I'd pass the bean dip. But if pressed, I might be tempted to say that they already waste the money I pay in taxes so I'm not inclined to give them more with my child's attendance. Plus - this isn't why we put kids in school! We put them into school to educate them. If the school isn't giving my money's worth on education then I'm not going to throw good money after bad.

 

 

Actually, I want a refund. I don't have $$ to waste/ throw away, you know.

 

And WHO are they gonna hire for $13K?

 

That's ridiculous!

[amsunshine]

Actually, I want a refund. I don't have $$ to waste/ throw away, you know.

 

Yeah, really! If the schools don't get money because my kids aren't there, then where is my tax money going? I'd like my refund, please and thank you.

[Tap]

Did someone already mention that maybe in Michigan it is $13000/student so that times 5 kids would be $65,000 so maybe the math is right? It would equal 2 teachers if that was the case.

 

I'd tell that person to MYOB.

 

Or not. I'd probably get upset and look to you ladies for sympathy.

 

$65,000 is one teacher here, and that doesn't include the expenses like retirements, medical benefits, and ss. It takes about $80-100,000 to pay for one teacher.

[Aubrey]

Technically what he says is true (here in Texas it's based on enrollment numbers), but who cares? I do what's best for my kids. Period.

 

And $13000 will pay for two teachers?? Really??

 

Isn't it a combination, though, of federal dollars (allocated for attendance) & property tax? The schools are already overcrowded, so I really don't think sending more kids makes any sense.

 

OP, does he "nettle" private school kids, too? ;)

[SweetMissMagnolia]

:D ha ha ha :iagree: I want my tax money back too then!!! LOL where we are you pay whether your kid goes to school public,private,homeschool LOL your taxes still go toward public education............

[Ellie]

Schools in general don't lose out because my dc aren't there. I pay the same taxes as every other citizen, and that money still goes to schools *somewhere.*

 

The schools my dc are supposed to attend loses out because my dc aren't there. Such is life. And I don't feel guilty for a nanosecond.

[Tammyla]

Your local schools get your tax dollars for free, so you are doing more than your share anyway.

 

Pass the dip...someone pass the bean dip.

Edited April 18, 2011 by Tammyla

[justamouse]

Well, as long as you're paying taxes, they're still getting the money. Matter of fact, they are getting EXTRA because your kids are homeschooled.