Holding the door for people….what is happening?

[Indigo Blue]

Can this pleeeaaassseee be a civil thread? Can we disagree respectfully if disagreement is necessary? 
 

This is just my thought today. 
 

Our son, who lives halfway across the country from us, told us of an experience he had just the other week or so.

He was 20 paces in front of a young female intern and was in the act of exiting the building…as in literally going through the door. He held the door open for her and waited for her to walk through. As she passed through the open door, she half looked in his direction and mumbled, “You didn’t have to do that.” As to make a statement. As in she was offended that a man held the door for her. It wasn’t in the tone of being apologetic to someone who stood there that long, going out of their way to be courteous. 
 

Is this happening everywhere now? Ok, so I’m in the South. We just do nice, mannerly things. I hope this was sort of isolated and this isn’t trending. 
 

Now, I am all against misogyny, patriarchy, and males that act like jerks and buffoons.  I loved the Barbie movie, which isn’t exactly about that, but I hope you get what I mean. 
 

I just think it’s ridiculous, though, that a person just can’t be nice. He (and I, too) would hold the door for anyone of any race, sex, or color JUST to be a nice person. 
 

I feel sad that this left a bad impression on my son.  I wonder what he will do next time? 😔 I hope he doesn’t let the actions of one person affect his bent toward being considerate of others. Knowing him, it probably will not, but who knows. 
 

 

Edited July 1 by Indigo Blue
Typo

[annandatje]

I would have assumed what she meant was something like holding door open was not necessary but thanks unless her tone or body language indicated otherwise.

I’m in South and before I got weak and sick, I would hold door open for frail people, people carrying kids or people carrying armload of things.

Edited July 1 by annandatje

[TechWife]

My motto with things like this - Do it anyway! Be kind. It costs nothing. 

[SKL]

Don't overthink it.

Where I live, this was a thing like 40-50 years ago, when some feminists decided that holding the door for a female meant that women are too weak and helpless to open the door for themselves.  Maybe it took a while for that brilliant idea to move south.

Here in the crass north, holding the door is back to being considerate again 😛  In fact, females hold the doors for males etc.  It's really truly about courtesy now.  What a breath of fresh air!

Well, except that I notice that young people may need to be actively taught this again.  I have had to remind my daughters to do this.

Tell your son not to worry about it.  If it's a problem, it's that girl's problem.  And, she'll get over it.

[stephanier.1765]

I live in the South and hold open the door for both women and men. It's just a courteous thing to do. I hope your son doesn't take it too much to heart. Hopefully, she was just having a bad day.

[MEmama]

Eh, I've grumbled at many men who hold the door for me, especially I was younger. It's not new or regional or generational. Of course, I keep doors open for men behind me and sometimes they get flustered too. Whatever.

[KSera]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

Here in the crass north, holding the door is back to being considerate again 😛  In fact, females hold the doors for males etc.  It's really truly about courtesy now.  What a breath of fresh air!

Well, except that I notice that young people may need to be actively taught this again.  I have had to remind my daughters to do this.

Agree. I find I get the door dropped in my face way more than used to be typical and I find that far more rude than any thought about whether a man holding the door for me is doing so because I'm a woman. I tend to figure they're holding it open because it would be rude to drop it in my face. If I'm the first one to the door, I hold it for whoever is behind me as well. Common courtesy.

[alisoncooks]

I’m southern and I hold the door for men and women. That said, I think the “20 paces” is the key here. That’s far enough ahead to make it a little awkward.  Made me think of this:

https://www.facebook.com/bbcthree/videos/10155476770330787/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

 

 

[Pawz4me]

2 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

I’m southern and I hold the door for men and women. That said, I think the “20 paces” is the key here. That’s far enough ahead to make it a little awkward. 

That was my thought also. I always hold doors for people relatively close behind me. But twenty steps seems like quite a far way off, to the point that it definitely might seem weird or off in some way. 

[SKL]

The 20 paces, for me, would mean I would look at the person behind me and decide whether or not holding the door would actually matter to him/her.  If it's someone carrying stuff in both hands, wrangling small children, in a wheelchair / using a cane, running through the rain, etc., I would wait and hold the door (unless I was in a hurry).  Or if I wanted to chat with the person who was coming up behind me.

Another thought is that when someone's holding the door for a long time because I'm putzing along behind, it can make me feel embarrassed, like I'm putting that person out because I'm not moving fast enough.  Then "you don't need to do that" may be to let the young man know that it's OK for him to go about his business even if someone is heading his way.

Edited July 1 by SKL

[Clarita]

I think about my purpose for doing a nice thing. If a person asks me to refrain from doing a nice thing for them because they don't like it then I stop doing for them and think nothing of it. I'm doing nice things to be nice not to earn kudos. 

I do get a little stressed out when people open doors for me too far in advance because now I feel like I need to go through that door even if I'm not ready to. 

Plus a lot of experience of compliments that I should appreciate and acknowledge despite my discomfort. I don't overthink when someone grumbles about something I did that I thought was a nice thing, but was obviously not nice to them. 

[fairfarmhand]

29 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I live in the South and hold open the door for both women and men. It's just a courteous thing to do. I hope your son doesn't take it too much to heart. Hopefully, she was just having a bad day.

Same here. I feel like she was being rude. It was a kindness and your ds should have been thanked.  We here in the South hold doors (men and women) for all kinds of others (men and women of all ages and abilities) 

[Ting Tang]

I think it is a polite thing to do whether a man, woman, child, etc.  I hold the door open for both men and women.  If we teach it this way, nobody should be offended. Someone took the time to be nice. 

[Arcadia]

I would assume that she is embarrassed rather than annoyed. However, I wouldn’t hold the door for that person anymore just in case. Here, people hold open the door for the next person so that the door doesn’t slam on the other person’s face. It is however rare here to hold the door open for someone to pass through unless the person has their arms full or is a relative.
 

The only time I have a guy other than my husband or brother do that for me was by guys who are easily in their late 60s and up. These are guys that would wait for ladies to be seated before sitting and tip their hat/cap in greeting if they are wearing one.

[Ginevra]

Most people I encounter hold doors for most anybody else approaching, no matter age/gender/etc. of the respective parties. If I see someone approaching with a stroller/wheelchair/mobility device, I will make a particular effort to hold the door for them and then assure them it is my pleasure to help. It is usually met with thanks. 
 

With that said, it is always a little awkward when someone is close enough to make eye contact but isn’t really directly behind you. Because once your eyes have met, who is going to then decide the person is too many steps away after all? Like…that would seem super rude if you acknowledged awareness that someone was heading your way, but yet you turned back and let the door go. The person coming up might even interpret this as discriminatory like, “OMG! You couldn’t be bothered to hold the door for an extra minute while I get there?? Is that because I’m {fill in the blank}?!” 

[thatfirstsip]

Would he have held the door for a man at the same distance? If not, it's gendered behavior.

It is also a changing cultural expectation. I mean, unless she was elderly or disabled or carrying a lot of stuff or pushing a stroller, it's an unnecessary thing to do and to some young people, pretty unwelcome - it invites contact that they can otherwise avoid.

[Ginevra]

I just wanted to add that I mean most people hold the door until the person gets there. It is rather less common to literally hold the door while others walk through, unless pushing a stroller/wheelchair/hands full, etc. 

[marbel]

Where I live, people routinely hold the door for a person behind them. Matters not whether the person is young or old, male or female, whatever. People just hold doors. it has zero to do with misogyny or patriarchy (and being southern, I'm in the mid-Atlantic) and everything to do with courtesy. I am an old lady and I'll gladly hold the door for a young man behind me, because why the heck not? 

This has happened just the once to your son? I hope he doesn't think that one incident of something happening is a trend and that he shouldn't hold doors anymore.  

Anyone who has been to Wawa (regional gas station, convenience store, coffee stop) surely has seen everyone taking pains to hold the door for the people around them. It's a bit of a joke around here. 

Edited July 1 by marbel

[MercyA]

I hold the door for all ages and genders and I love it when people do the same for me. It's just common courtesy.

The thing bugging me lately is that many people don't say or acknowledge "excuse me" any more, as used when you're in someone else's way. 

Edited July 1 by MercyA

[catz]

Maybe she was crabby?  Maybe she just found a bug in her coffee?  Maybe she was raised with a misogynistic father? Maybe someone in the office sexually harassed her or made advances and she's feeling sensitive?  Maybe she really just meant, hey you didn't need to pause so long?  Maybe she felt awkward about it?

It was one comment by one person on one day.  I wouldn't read too much into it.  And I also wouldn't change my behavior.  In general, be kind, everyone is fighting a battle you may know nothing about that.  Sometimes that means people you might not know well don't react the way you might expect.  That doesn't mean they're an awful person or there is some overriding conspiracy.

In a professional setting, I would be treating everyone the same.  

[EKS]

If he stood there waiting for her to get to the door, that would be weird on his part.

If she was right behind him and he held the door, with no or very little waiting involved, then she's being weird.

[catz]

Ok - I read responses now and had a few other thoughts.  I regularly hold doors for people and thank people who hold the door for me just FYI.  I might go out of my way for people with strollers or wheelchairs or walkers.  But in general, I don't pause more than a few seconds.  Nothing wrong with any of that.

I do think 20 paces could potentially feel awkward and be a long time.  The door holding video cracked me up.  Yeah, don't wait all day people.  

A couple situations I thought of that I did find a little grating when I was a young female professional in professional settings.  Holding the door with the comment "ladies first".  Or holding the door when maybe a slow crowd is trickling out of work.  Dude sees you.  Holds the door for the next 3 people and then holds the door for you (likely with some smart remark) and then follows you out.  

Being a young female in a corporate office can draw unwanted attention depending on the setting and the company culture.  When I started my first couple jobs in tech it was a lot of guys.  And I cringe when I think of some of the stuff I put up with that I would not hesitate to take to HR immediately now. 

So anyway, I don't jump to "how rude, what is the world coming to!" 

[Corraleno]

Agreeing with others that the distance is likely the issue. I think holding doors for someone close behind you, so it doesn't smack them in the face, is normal and even expected, but holding the door open for someone who is quite a ways behind you is just awkward, unless there's an obvious reason that person might struggle with the door (on crutches, pushing a stroller, carrying packages, etc.).

I don't really like it when someone holds the door for me if I'm a ways back, because it feels like they're inconveniencing themselves for something I don't even want, and it makes me feel like I need to hurry up and get out the door so they're not stuck standing there. Plus it usually means having to get closer to a stranger than I would prefer. I would say "thanks" just to be polite, but in my head I'd be agreeing with the girl in the OP: you didn't need to do that — and actually I wish you hadn't.

[MEmama]

And sometimes the waiting an awkwardly long time thing happens inadvertently, and when everyone shares a laugh it's all good but sometimes it's creepy for whatever reason so it really depends on circumstance. Mostly I think when another person doesn't react the way we "think" they should, there's probably a normal reason behind it. Let's just give each grace, yes? 

[stephanier.1765]

59 minutes ago, Ginevra said:

I just wanted to add that I mean most people hold the door until the person gets there. It is rather less common to literally hold the door while others walk through, unless pushing a stroller/wheelchair/hands full, etc. 

I do that all the time. If I'm coming to a door and someone is right behind me, I'll pull the door open and hold it while they go inside ahead of me. If it's a push open door, then I'll go first and then hold it open for them as they go inside.

[Indigo Blue]

Ds did say that he had turned around because he heard her coming. After that, he didn’t want to close the door and keep walking. He wanted to hold the door and be nice. How is one to know another person isn’t going to be too keen on having a door held for them? It’s really just a judgment call, I suppose. I mean …should I hold the door or not? He chose to hold it. 

[marbel]

Just now, Indigo Blue said:

Ds did say that he had turned around because he heard her coming. After that, he didn’t want to close the door and keep walking. He wanted to hold the door and be nice. How is one to know another person isn’t going to be too keen on having a door held for them? It’s really just a judgment call, I suppose. I mean …should I hold the door or not? He chose to hold it. 

Right, you can't know how people will react. It is a judgment call, like many we make every day when interacting with people in public.  Like, in the grocery store, someone is scrutinizing the yogurt selection and I know exactly what I want, but they are blocking me. Do I wait a decent distance away, or go away and come back later, or say "excuse me real quick!" while I reach around and grab my yogurt? Will they think I'm a jerk, or are they relieved no one is lurking behind them while they read labels? 

It's really not that deep. 

(Assuming people involved are neurotypical.) 

[wintermom]

17 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

Ds did say that he had turned around because he heard her coming. After that, he didn’t want to close the door and keep walking. He wanted to hold the door and be nice. How is one to know another person isn’t going to be too keen on having a door held for them? It’s really just a judgment call, I suppose. I mean …should I hold the door or not? He chose to hold it. 

Sorry he happened upon a seemingly crabby person. It happens. You just don't know what is happening to another person when you have a simple interaction. I once said 'hi' to a random lady on the street and she yelled at me, saying something like "Don't look or talk to me!" She was apparently having a really bad day. 

[Ginevra]

24 minutes ago, marbel said:

Right, you can't know how people will react. It is a judgment call, like many we make every day when interacting with people in public.  Like, in the grocery store, someone is scrutinizing the yogurt selection and I know exactly what I want, but they are blocking me. Do I wait a decent distance away, or go away and come back later, or say "excuse me real quick!" while I reach around and grab my yogurt? Will they think I'm a jerk, or are they relieved no one is lurking behind them while they read labels? 

It's really not that deep. 

(Assuming people involved are neurotypical.) 

Right?? So many social decisions to be made in grocery stores! 

[bookbard]

I assume she thought he might be hitting on her, and was trying to suggest - nope. And I agree with other posts - you don't do these things for the congratulations. You do them to help someone out. They're not always going to appreciate it, in real life we don't always get it right. Doesn't mean you don't try your best next time.

[marbel]

16 minutes ago, bookbard said:

I assume she thought he might be hitting on her, and was trying to suggest - nope. And I agree with other posts - you don't do these things for the congratulations. You do them to help someone out. They're not always going to appreciate it, in real life we don't always get it right. Doesn't mean you don't try your best next time.

Is that a common thing - to think that a guy might be hitting on (you) because he's holding the door for (you)?  I mean, 20 paces is a bit far - I couldn't picture it earlier so walked it from my door, yeah, it's a little farther than I had thought - but still?  A person might default to that rather than something like "polite well-brought-up guy?" 

[Catwoman]

Not for anything, but people hold doors for each other in Northern states, too. It's not just a Southern thing. 😉 

[Catwoman]

1 hour ago, Indigo Blue said:

Ds did say that he had turned around because he heard her coming. After that, he didn’t want to close the door and keep walking. He wanted to hold the door and be nice. How is one to know another person isn’t going to be too keen on having a door held for them? It’s really just a judgment call, I suppose. I mean …should I hold the door or not? He chose to hold it. 

I think it's very sweet that your son is so polite, and I can understand why he would have felt awkward about not holding the door after he had already made eye contact with the woman. 

That said, 20 paces is pretty far away from the door, so she might have felt like she had to rush more than she wanted to, because she didn't want to leave your son just standing there holding the door for any longer than necessary. 

If she was rude about it, that was just... well... rude, but my first thought is that it turned out to be an awkward situation all around, and she actually really did mean that he didn't have to hold the door for that long. 

Either way, I'm sure your son has already forgotten about it, and I think you should, too!  🙂 

[Clarita]

8 minutes ago, marbel said:

Is that a common thing - to think that a guy might be hitting on (you) because he's holding the door for (you)?

Does it matter if it's a common thing or somebody might have had an unfortunate run-in before with this usually innocuous behavior.

I don't know if I'm an outlier or unlucky, but between my teens to my 30's I've had a lot of usually innocuous behavior turn uncomfortable. I'll admit there is a time in my young adult life where I might have been crabby about it too. 

[Farrar]

The fact that she mumbled and said he didn't have to... It just says to me she was embarrassed. Not everything is a sign of the end times or a major cultural trend. He could just take her at her word that she didn't feel he had to do that.

The other day I had a cute hold the door experience. Young guy just a couple steps in front of me, went through the door, then realized someone was behind him, but his hands were full. He literally jumped backwards a little half step and held the door for me with his other foot for a half beat as I got to it and could hold it for myself. I would have said thanks, but he, like me, was wearing headphones.

[Indigo Blue]

Thanks for all the thoughts. I’m not upset about this at all; I just wanted to talk about it. Because….it’s where I come to talk about stuff. A chat board. And I honestly think it was a bit odd. 
 

My opinion is that he was just trying to be polite. He’d never encountered anyone responding like that before. I haven’t either. It’s fine if she feels a certain way about it, but he really had no way to anticipate that she would do that. He didn’t do it to be thanked, but he did not expect a response that like that either. 🤷‍♀️

It’s fine. But I just am a bit perplexed by it. 

Thanks.

 

[KungFuPanda]

There are always one-offs in life. You can’t let them rattle you. If it happens a few more times THEN you can start to wonder if you’re the problem. However, there is no way to live your life to avoid criticism so it shouldn’t be a goal. 
 

I hold doors for anyone to avoid them closing in their face, or if their hands are full. At 20 paces it’s getting a bit weird because it turns into the door-holder actually waiting and then other person feeling obliged to pick up the pace. If the door can close and you can get 20 feet way before the next person gets there, you just let it go. 20 paces at least 40 feet. That’s a bit much for a young, able-bodied person who doesn’t need any help. 

[bookbard]

2 hours ago, marbel said:

Is that a common thing - to think that a guy might be hitting on (you) because he's holding the door for (you)?

Not for me, lol, but I know some girls get hit on/harassed a lot, and get over it real fast. I do remember in my 20s asking a random guy for the time, and then he followed me around every time he saw me in the street. I eventually confronted him and told him I'd call the police and that was the end of that. Not common as I'm unattractive, but it happens.

[Scarlett]

There is a video on line of someone who sits outside a convenience store in OK and watches people hold open the door for everyone. 
 

I was raised up in the south and I expect (not as in I feel entitled but that I am accustomed to it) that the door will be held for me. I am frankly shocked when it is not.  And I hold it for people too.  It is just a common courtesy. 

[Tap]

Don’t let her issues, become your issues. 
 

Son was being nice.

She wasn’t. 
Thats just life sometimes.

[Happy2BaMom]

4 hours ago, Tap said:

Don’t let her issues, become your issues. 
 

Son was being nice.

She wasn’t. 
Thats just life sometimes.

This.

Some people are jerks. Or just having a horrendous day and feeling mean.

I just try to shrug it off and carry on.

And I've lived all over the country and traveled extensively through many states. Throughout, I've had doors for me, for which I expressed gratitude, and I've held doors for other people. It's not nearly as much of a regional thing as people like to think it is. Nor have I noticed it declining, although that may be possible, given that our general social contract is more frayed than it used to be.

[QueenCat]

First, people hold doors in other places than the south. I see more of it in Ohio than I did in places I lived in the South.

Second, yes, it's polite to hold the door for someone coming up right behind you. I'd wait a little longer than that for someone in need. 

That said, 20 paces is a long time to wait. I'd probably think it was odd. And if I was a young woman and it was a young man, I might think they were trying to have an interaction with me. But the woman could have just let it go. 

[Kassia]

40 minutes ago, QueenCat said:

First, people hold doors in other places than the south. I see more of it in Ohio than I did in places I lived in the South.

 

I live in Ohio too and seems like everyone holds doors open for others.  In fact, it was so common at the community college where my dd attended for DE that we joked that door holding was part of the admission process - you wouldn't be accepted if you weren't a door-holder.  It was bizarre how everyone did it - even when someone was far behind them and then it was just awkward because you'd have to hurry to the door so the person holding it wasn't too inconvenienced waiting for you.  

 

 

[QueenCat]

26 minutes ago, Kassia said:

I live in Ohio too and seems like everyone holds doors open for others.  In fact, it was so common at the community college where my dd attended for DE that we joked that door holding was part of the admission process - you wouldn't be accepted if you weren't a door-holder.  It was bizarre how everyone did it - even when someone was far behind them and then it was just awkward because you'd have to hurry to the door so the person holding it wasn't too inconvenienced waiting for you.  

 

 

That's funny about the campus. I really don't see people holding it for people when they are way behind them. It does make it awkward, as you state, as it makes one feel rushed. Thankfully, I don't see that often.

[Ausmumof3]

13 hours ago, Farrar said:

The fact that she mumbled and said he didn't have to... It just says to me she was embarrassed. Not everything is a sign of the end times or a major cultural trend. He could just take her at her word that she didn't feel he had to do that.

The other day I had a cute hold the door experience. Young guy just a couple steps in front of me, went through the door, then realized someone was behind him, but his hands were full. He literally jumped backwards a little half step and held the door for me with his other foot for a half beat as I got to it and could hold it for myself. I would have said thanks, but he, like me, was wearing headphones.

Yes to the first paragraph. I would likely react like that and it would be because I’m a slow walker and I’d be embarrassed he’d been stuck holding the door for that length of time, not because I was cross. 

[Danae]

What’s happening is that a young women declined to follow the script your son had in is head for her and it disgruntled him enough that he was still thinking about it a week later.
 

He should let it go.  

[Terabith]

I’m not philosophically opposed to people holding doors for me, and I hold doors for people, but twenty steps behind is awkward.  I feel obligated to hurry; I worry that I’m inconveniencing the door holder; I just don’t like it. But also I’m never quite sure how far away is too far for me to hold for others.  I just chalk it up to being awkward and an uncomfortable judgment call.  

[Corraleno]

20 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

It wasn’t in the tone of being apologetic to someone who stood there that long, going out of their way to be courteous. 

19 hours ago, fairfarmhand said:

she was being rude. It was a kindness and your ds should have been thanked.  

12 hours ago, Scarlett said:

It is just a common courtesy. 

I think everyone agrees that letting the door slam in the face of a person who is right behind you is rude, but lots of people in this thread have said that holding the door for someone who is so far back that the door-holder has to stand there and wait for them is awkward and makes them feel rushed and uncomfortable. How is it a "kindness" and a "courtesy" to make someone feel awkward and rushed? And why would someone expect to be thanked, or even apologized to, for "going out of their way" to do something that made the other person uncomfortable?

Doing something for someone who doesn't want it, and then judging them as rude if they don't express appreciation for the thing they didn't want, seems more rude to me than saying "you didn't need to do that" — which was probably the polite way of saying "you made me feel rushed and uncomfortable and I wish you hadn't done that."

 

20 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

I hope he doesn’t let the actions of one person affect his bent toward being considerate of others.

Or maybe he could consider the possibility that the girl he held the door for was giving him a valuable social clue that many people find it awkward to have the door held for a long time, and he might take that into account the next time he's in a similar situation.

[Kanin]

18 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

I do that all the time. If I'm coming to a door and someone is right behind me, I'll pull the door open and hold it while they go inside ahead of me. If it's a push open door, then I'll go first and then hold it open for them as they go inside.

Same. Everyone here just holds the door for others to walk through. I love it. It's a nice interaction between strangers.

[J-rap]

I now live in a nearly 40-floor apartment building with lots of long hallways and elevators, so have plenty of experience wondering if I should hold a door or not.  😄  

Most people seem to hold a door for someone who is 10 feet or less behind them, but beyond that, people realize that it actually puts pressure on the one who is still 20 feet away.   If it means waiting and holding a door for a disabled or very elderly person or someone carrying a big load but is further away, then most people tend to wait and hold the door.

If it's a man holding the door for me and I'm right behind him and obviously don't need help, I don't make a big deal of it.  I assume they have kind intentions. 

If someone holds the door for me and I'm 20 feet or more away and feel pressure to hurry because I can see them holding it for me, I'd still thank them and smile, and probably tell them they needn't have waited.  I don't think rudeness is necessary for any of those exchanges.