Sanity check - what would you let your 17yo daughter do?

[SKL]

Daughter (just turned 17) has a boyfriend who lives in the next state, a 3 hour drive, in a city that is not the safest, but not the least safe either.

For the past year, boyfriend (age 17.5) has been coming here to visit, either driven by his mom, met halfway by me, or (since he got his license) driven by himself.  His folks have been to my house and around our community somewhat.  I've met both parents but never been to where they live.

My daughter has been wanting to travel to his house for an overnight.  Sounds fair, right?  But my kid has never driven that far and has never been to that area.  She's never gotten lost in a strange place far from home.  She's also a female just shy of 5' tall.  Call me sexist!  It's not the same as a 17yo male driving to a place he's been a number of times before.

Other back-of-my-mind doubts involve his history (reported to me by my daughter) of mental health issues and drug use.  He seems like a nice guy, with a loving family, he's had therapy and is on meds.  But!  I don't know what I don't know, can't see what I can't see.  He also had a very minor car collision that I know about, last month.  I could see how that could happen to anyone, but again, I don't know what I don't know.  As for my daughter, she seems reasonably sensible / average for a young 17yo, but she doesn't always make the best choices either.  She doesn't always obey my safety rules.  My kid has an IUD and intimacy isn't my concern in this situation.

I've said no to this request in the past, but now I decided to compromise.  If certain school-related benchmarks are met, I'll drive my kid halfway and the boyfriend can drive her the rest of the way, and we'll meet back at the same place the next day.  I will give them the opportunity to prove that there's no need for more restrictions.

What would the Hive let their 17yo girl do?  Let's stay off the subject of physical intimacy, because that's water under the bridge at this point.

[teachermom2834]

I would probably say no but I’m not sure. I don’t make hard and fast rules and reserve the right to change my mind and while I try to give my reasons and be rational sometimes it is a “just because.”  I am more cautious about teen drivers than most parents. 
 

I know 17 is almost 18 (which is legally adult) but it still is not. I held fast to a lot of rules until my kids went away to college. And people would say “but they will be in college in six months” and I would say then they have freedom in six months 🤷🏼‍♀️ 

There is a chance I would let my dd and hate it. Or that I would just hold the line at No until 18 or graduation or something.
 

But I don’t think you are wrong to let her. Parenting teens is hard. Sometimes we are overprotective and sometimes we say yes to things even against our better judgement. Sometimes there is no good answer and then I would just get frustrated that anyone asked me the question!

[prairiewindmomma]

I am fine with your compromise. I would let drive her drive halfway a time or two and after that I would let her go on her own. At 18, she could choose to go to live far away and have an entirely independent life. Taking a trip on her own is a baby step in learning the skills she needs to live safely independently. Really, she needs to learn to navigate strange cities, deal with small emergencies on her own, etc. while you are still available to back her up.

 

[SKL]

2 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

I would probably say no but I’m not sure. I don’t make hard and fast rules and reserve the right to change my mind and while I try to give my reasons and be rational sometimes it is a “just because.”  I am more cautious about teen drivers than most parents. 
 

I know 17 is almost 18 (which is legally adult) but it still is not. I held fast to a lot of rules until my kids went away to college. And people would say “but they will be in college in six months” and I would say then they have freedom in six months 🤷🏼‍♀️ 

There is a chance I would let my dd and hate it. Or that I would just hold the line at No until 18 or graduation or something.
 

But I don’t think you are wrong to let her. Parenting teens is hard. Sometimes we are overprotective and sometimes we say yes to things even against our better judgement. Sometimes there is no good answer and then I would just get frustrated that anyone asked me the question!

I like the neatness of the "18 or graduation" rule, except that it's a double standard.  The boyfriend is also under 18 and is behind my kid in school.  It's hard to explain the difference to my kid.  I mean, I did say "you are a female not quite 5' tall," which is why I'm not sending her all the way there alone.

Theoretically I could offer to drive her all the way there and back, but tbh I don't want to.  I guess that sounds awful?

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I am fine with your compromise. I would let drive her drive halfway a time or two and after that I would let her go on her own. At 18, she could choose to go to live far away and have an entirely independent life. Taking a trip on her own is a baby step in learning the skills she needs to live safely independently. Really, she needs to learn to navigate strange cities, deal with small emergencies on her own, etc. while you are still available to back her up.

 

Good points ... but maybe not for her first time there.  Maybe if it goes well, I'll allow her to go alone come spring.  (He is coming this way in November for another reason, and then there's winter - she doesn't have any experience driving in ice yet.)

[Sneezyone]

DD made several 1-2 hour trips in her final year of high school. Three hours is like from our place to DC. I'd be OK with it but we've done 8-12 hour day drives as a family multiple times. We did not allow overnights until senior year.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Sneezyone

[ikslo]

I would let her go, but ask that she make the trip in daylight hours so that if she gets lost it isn’t at night. To keep her phone charged and call me when she got there.  To remember her manners in someone else’s house.

It would not bother me at all.

It would bother me more to have her there with no way to leave if she decides she needs out. 

 

[teachermom2834]

25 minutes ago, SKL said:

I like the neatness of the "18 or graduation" rule, except that it's a double standard.  The boyfriend is also under 18 and is behind my kid in school.  It's hard to explain the difference to my kid.  I mean, I did say "you are a female not quite 5' tall," which is why I'm not sending her all the way there alone.

Theoretically I could offer to drive her all the way there and back, but tbh I don't want to.  I guess that sounds awful?

Nah. Doesn’t sound awful! I think you are fine to let her go. You have a reason- you done want to do all that driving. That’s valid enough to tip the scales. And your compromise of driving her halfway is pretty good I think.

As far as the double standard. Meh. I always was the stricter parent so I was always saying no to things the partners were allowed to do. I figure we all get to make our own parenting choices. But I hear what you are saying. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, I would not voice the size and height thing (and I say this with people in my extended family who are under 5’ themselves as older adults):

1. Size is not a barrier to assault. Big adults are assaulted just like small ones. 
 

2. She has no control over her height. 
 

3. She will have to navigate the world as a petite adult. She’s almost certain to still be under 5’ as a 50 year old woman, iykwim.

Teach her to be smart. You’ve traveled the world with her. Situational awareness is way more important than size. Teach her to keep her cell phone charged and give her pepper spray if it makes you feel better.

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fwiw, I would not voice the size and height thing (and I say this with people in my extended family who are under 5’ themselves as older adults):

1. Size is not a barrier to assault. Big adults are assaulted just like small ones. 
 

2. She has no control over her height. 
 

3. She will have to navigate the world as a petite adult. She’s almost certain to still be under 5’ as a 50 year old woman, iykwim.

Teach her to be smart. You’ve traveled the world with her. Situational awareness is way more important than size. Teach her to keep her cell phone charged and give her pepper spray if it makes you feel better.

True, but it was her size combined with the fact that she's going into very unfamiliar territory for the first time.  (She did respond that she has GPS and pepper spray!  And she's a 3rd degree blackbelt.  But still.)

Situational awareness is big.  I think she needs a little more experience before she ventures into a risky situation alone.

We also need to do a refresher course in personal safety skills.  I was already saying this as my girls are soon to start commuting to an urban university.

[Ting Tang]

I think your compromise is better than the idea of her driving three hours all be herself.  I still feel 17 year olds are very inexperienced drivers, and while most accidents do happen closer to home, I feel that is a very long drive for someone with that level of experience.  It would take me a long while before I'd be comfortable---maybe you two could try a similar trip together?

You mentioned being weary of his past.  That is definitely a red flag for me, even despite his nice-seeming family.  Unless he is drastically different from that version of himself, I'd definitely keep a close eye on my daughter.  People with addictive personalities can be manipulative.  I was involved with someone like this, and it just wasn't good.  I know people deserve second chances, but I guess I am not there when it comes to my daughter or my sons.

[Rosie_0801]

Keeping on the topic of driving only, I'd say no until I was sure of her driving endurance. 

My 16.5 yo has about 100 hours of driving practice (on L plates, she can't drive independently until 18) and has the endurance to drive three hours, no problems. But she's still too inexperienced to be driving in familiar cities unsupervised, let alone unfamiliar.

[Innisfree]

Just regarding the driving part, I’d have her drive, maybe halfway the first time, but with me along for the ride to see how she handles it. [Edit: I’d drive the second half myself, rather than meeting the boyfriend halfway.] Let her manage driving in a new city while you’re along to help if she needs it. Also, while her boyfriend sounds like he’s a nice guy and has a stable and supportive family, I’d prefer that she not be entirely dependent on him for transportation. I’d probably want to observe her handling the full drive once or twice before sending her solo. That would mean letting her drop me off at a hotel for the night, but I’d feel better about the trip that way.

 I don’t think your compromise is unreasonable, though.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Innisfree

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, the biggest issues my urban university kid has had to deal with have revolved around dealing with the mentally ill in public. It wasn’t something that was ever covered in our classes, but that and open drug use on public transport have been regular issues for urban living. Metros vary—but even my nearly 90 year old relative is getting heckled by panhandlers/campers/houseless in her relatively small Midwest town. If you know where they are going to go to school, I’d start scouting the area just to get a sense of the vibe. Life feels rougher than it did pre-pandemic.

[almondbutterandjelly]

Personally, I would not facilitate a relationship between my newly 17 year old who lived 3 hours from her boyfriend.  Those are called long distance teenage relationships, and they often die a natural death.  I certainly wouldn't help it limp along.  (You asked what the Hive would do.)

[SKL]

To be clear, the boyfriend lives with his parents.  If anything weird went down and the boyfriend wasn't likely to bring her back safely, I trust his mom to step up.

I also have her in "find my phone" in case she somehow ended up in the wrong place and needed help getting out of there.

[Heartstrings]

If the main issue is her driving, I would go with her a few times, handing over more and more of the driving time to her each time.  Maybe over 2 or 3 trips?  With her doing 100% of the driving the 3rd time.  Then have a good plan to track and communicate with her the first time she goes on her own. Baby step her to the independence needed.  
 

(my husband and I track each other when the other ones drives long distances, so that feels normal to me.  It’s not a control thing, just a mutual comfort and safety thing). 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Grace Hopper]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I am fine with your compromise. I would let drive her drive halfway a time or two and after that I would let her go on her own. At 18, she could choose to go to live far away and have an entirely independent life. Taking a trip on her own is a baby step in learning the skills she needs to live safely independently. Really, she needs to learn to navigate strange cities, deal with small emergencies on her own, etc. while you are still available to back her up.

 

I agree. At 17 mine had all experienced driving themselves to visit older friends on college campuses that far away. 

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, almondbutterandjelly said:

Personally, I would not facilitate a relationship between my newly 17 year old who lived 3 hours from her boyfriend.  Those are called long distance teenage relationships, and they often die a natural death.  I certainly wouldn't help it limp along.  (You asked what the Hive would do.)

I get you.  They know each other through an organization that brings teens and their parents together 2-3 times per year, and they stay in contact via snapchat or whatever.  Their first in-person "date" was to an amusement park between their two houses.  After that, his mom started organizing get-togethers, and I didn't say no.

I guess I don't feel like it's up to me who my kid dates.  Tbh I would not have chosen these two to date each other.  They both seem too introverted for each other, for one thing.  But they've been "dating" for over a year now, so what do I know?

Besides that, I guess I suck at saying "no."

There are positives to the long-distance relationship.  The fact that they don't see each other in person as often may mean (a) they may take certain things more slowly, and (b) they have more time for other age-appropriate things, other friends, etc.  I dunno.

[catz]

As the parent of a boy and a girl, I don't think I would have gone for this prior to graduation for either kid.  Don't care about your gender or height at all.  My kids were/are late drivers in general though.  They are urban, were not particularly interested in driving long distances but were fine with transit.    And just because his parents have allowed something doesn't mean you have to allow it.

I'd just be not encouraging this in any way.   I wouldn't want it to influence higher ed decisions, I think long distance relationships in young people are often not based in super solid grounding and are distracting in the day to day (though maybe he was local when they met).  I certainly wouldn't forbid it.  But I wouldn't regularly be giving up half days to get them together.

 My kids aren't short but I was short and a very petite high schooler and college student and having your height being brought up constantly is so grating.  I navigated an urban campus just fine as a young college student.  Totally agree with whoever said that shouldn't be the issue at hand here.  I also wouldn't particularly worry about her wanting to make a quick dash away either if this is an established relationship and you trust the family.  Running out into your vehicle in the middle of the night as an inexperienced driver isn't a great idea anyway.

But a lot of time as a parent of teens you are making least bad decisions and this s clearly a relationship that exists already.  If she drives, I'd let her drive the half way with you as a passenger as a first step and see how that goes.  Actually, if this is an urban setting and you were comfortable with the family and the relationship, my biggest concern might be having your car overnight on a street in an urban setting depending on location.   Not to mention, I assume this is your vehicle and your daughter doesn't have her own.  I don't personally want to give up my car that long without back up.  

I will say my kid that went to college traveled by bus a lot.  We could get him a round trip coach ticket for less than the price of a coule tanks of gas and the stopping we'd do to get him there.  I'd totally let my kid transit their way to a destination I was comfortable with at that age.  Sooner than I'd let them take my vehicle for 2 days anyway.  

Edited October 18, 2023 by catz

[SKL]

The size thing ... I hear you all saying I shouldn't bring that up.  My concern is, I get an image of my kid having some sort of car issue or getting lost somewhere that isn't safe.  Then she might get out of the car and look very easy to attack.

I've had those moments where I had a flat tire or got lost in an unsafe location.  I'm not tiny, but it was scary for me, and I can't help it if I don't want my kid in that situation.  (Though, to be fair, I don't want my other (taller) daughter in that situation either.)

It was more about pushback on the obvious double standard.  Your son can drive here, but my daughter can't drive there (yet).  Your son isn't worth less than my daughter.  I just think he is less likely to be jumped.

[cjzimmer1]

I would object but for reasons that you've stated you are okay with.  So I thought about if it was a female friend what would be my response.  If I was truly comfortable with the family, I would probably take daughter all the way to the house, except I would not drive.  I would make DD drive so that she could have the practice navigating the distance getting familiar with driving on those roads, seeing the areas etc all while still getting some guidance so that another time when I wasn't there she would hopefully have my words buzzing around her head.  Also it would give me a chance to see friend's home to make sure I was really comfortable with it all.  

[City Mouse]

Could you have her drive the two of you, and then you stay in a hotel while she visits the boyfriend? You might feel better after you have had her drive the route a few times with you in the car. 

[KungFuPanda]

You must be THIS tall to take a road trip? She’s got to dabble in adulting eventually. Will she be that different in a few months when she’s 18? Or will you need a new excuse?  Her greatest risk of assault is from people she knows, not strangers. Also, some people live long and happy lives in neighborhoods others deem unsavory. How bad IS this neighborhood???

[Tree Frog]

Our philosophy was to let our kids make their own decisions at about 16 because I wanted them to experience things I knew they would experience on their own when we were better able to guide them.

So I would have her drive the entire way with me as a passenger, letting her experience the unknowns of driving in a new place with me helping her. It would be time consuming for me because of have a 3 hour drive home after, but it would be an opportunity for her to stretch her wings. After that, I would do as a pp mentioned and ask her to drive during daylight hours when she drove alone and call or text me when she arrived. 

We have always driven long distances as a family. When mine went to college, 2 were within 4 hours of home, but one was 14 hours away. They all drove back and forth between our house and college. I think this is good practice for your dd, especially if she will be not be attending a local college. 

[Katy]

I’d let her practice by driving herself in my car with me in the passenger seat, saying & doing practically nothing in terms of advice unless I had to. Idk how she’d get back home. Maybe have bf bring her, maybe stay overnight in a hotel and come home with her, depends too much on other circumstances. 

[BusyMom5]

I would say no. I wouldn't be actively encouraging a relationship like this at their ages either.  You own the car and provide the insurance,  so you can decide where all the car can go!

[fairfarmhand]

3 hours ago, SKL said:

 

It was more about pushback on the obvious double standard.  Your son can drive here, but my daughter can't drive there (yet).  Your son isn't worth less than my daughter.  I just think he is less likely to be jumped.

As a mother of a son and three daughters, I would totally be understanding of this viewpoint. It's not that my son is worth less. It's that women are inherently more vulnerable than young men. Facts of life there. My dh gets it too.  (nothing to do with size here. Larger gals are assaulted as well as tiny ones.)

Also, kids vary in driving experience and confidence. Just because your kid might be more confident and experienced on the road doesn't mean that my kid is at the same level.  Also, this can vary depending on how reliable the vehicle is. There have been times when I turn down longer trips because the vehicle I'm driving is not so reliable and don't want to get stranded somewhere far from home. There can be all kind of reasons why I'd make the decision for my kid not to drive and while someone else's kid ended up driving.

Edited October 19, 2023 by fairfarmhand

[Dmmetler]

I don't drive 3 hours alone, so for me, that would be the reason not to do it. I'm a petite woman, but more importantly, fatigue really is an issue for me and driving. I'd want to make sure she has the stamina to get there and back if needed with a quick turnaround. A 17 yr old can't pull into a hotel and get a room with an emergency credit card (nor can many college students). I'd also encourage driving during the day. 

 

But, ultimately, she'll be an adult within a year, and many 18 yr olds no longer live at home. They have to make their own decisions sometime. 

 

 

[rebcoola]

I would say yes not quite the same but ODD will be driving about that distance next month to a large city to meet her Grandma to see Les Mis.   The drive in the city makes me a little nervous but she is a very solid driver and she drove the last time we were in big city and it was fine. 

[Soror]

I would have her work towards driving on her own by riding with me first and then driving during the daylight as pp mentioned. Considering she'll be graduating next year it's a good time to be practicing those skills before she's off on her own, who knows how far away.

[MercyA]

I'd ride with her at least once and see how it goes, and then make my decision about the next time.

I would not be opposed in principle.

[regentrude]

What exactly are your concerns? Can you articulate that more specifically?

The drive itself? Accident? Fatigue? Getting lost?

The other city? Crime? Getting lost?

The bf himself?

Which factors are really different from your town, and which are just perception?

At 17, my dd moved from our small rural town  to Chicago to attend university. Which meant I had zero control over anything and had to trust her to be safe.

I had allowed three hour drives and  out-of-state drives at 16. Because I knew she was a good, safe driver in a reliable vehicle. That seems to be the most important criterion for the decision.

Edited October 19, 2023 by regentrude

[Roadrunner]

My concern would be her ability to drive in a city. I don’t think getting lost is a problem nowadays since GPS can accurately navigate her to her destination. The problem is rural driving is so very different from a large city. That would be my primary concern. 
Three hours is still a reachable distance otherwise. If something were to happen, you can get to her. 

[wintermom]

I wouldn't be too keen on the overnight part as much as the solo driving. It just opens up a whole other world of situations that could be awkward or worse. However, if the overnight was going to go ahead, I'd want her to have the safety net of having a vehicle or someone nearby to go to if needed. 

My "compromise" would likely be that she drive the whole way there and back to gain that driving experience, and I'd come along and stay at a nearby hotel (or visit friends if they happened to be in the area). 

[kirstenhill]

None of my teens (so far) have had serious dating relationships while in high school so I am not looking at it from that angle.   My daughter wanted to be able to drive 1.5 hrs each way to be able to visit a good friend in a major city as soon as she got her license.  It is a slightly different situation because we formerly lived in the large city...but honestly a kid's knowledge of the major city at age 12 and what a 16 year old driver needs to know are very different! The neighborhood where friend lives has also gotten a bit more dangerous since we lived there in terms of crime stats (there was a carjacking across the street from friend's house within the past couple years 😞).   It's a bit easier with a 1.5 hour drive than a 3 hr drive, but we started with having her drive all the way there and then back home with us in the car while she still had her permit, then once she had her license, her first trip "alone" we actually followed her in a separate vehicle so we could be right there if she had any trouble.  Once we saw she could navigate to friend's house on her own, we felt more comfortable with her making the trip solo.  

We made sure she always has cell phone on/charged and usually sharing location while driving back and forth (we don't normally track location), and we got roadside assistance so she could call in case of flat tire, etc.  We also talked about a variety of safety situations for driving in the city, how to make sure you are getting gas in a safe area, etc.  

So aside from the boyfriend situation, I would definitely allow a three hour drive to the city to visit a friend, but would just make sure she has proven skills first by going along the first time.  (In your case that would also give you a chance to scope out where the parent's live, etc and make sure you are comfortable with her staying overnight there). 

[Hannah]

Is there no option for a bus or shuttle to the other city?

(I'm probably showing a lot of ignorance as to what is available given that everyone can drive from age 16 and cars are reasonably affordable in the USA).

[Storygirl]

I have three teens and one in her twenties, and one part of our decision would be the driving ability of the teen. For our teens, I think we would only be comfortable allowing one of them, who is an exceptionally good driver and good decision maker. The other two are iffy on both accounts.

I am generally more conservative about my teens driving, in general.

In your situation, I do think that I would ride along with her during the first trip, even though I would not want to take the time to do so. I would have her drive all of the way to the boyfriends' house, drop her off, then see for myself what the neighborhood and surrounding area is like, with the idea of building my own comfort level. Depending on the length of the planned visit, I would either drive back home and ask the boyfriend or his family to meet halfway to get her back home, or I would stay in a nearby hotel and then let her drive us both back home.

Assuming that I felt very comfortable about the teen's driving ability (not just for this trip, but in general as well), after that, I would decide about what would be allowed for future trips.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Storygirl

[SKL]

I love this board for discussions like this.  We're everywhere, and all of these concerns are my exact concerns.  Don't want to baby my kid too much, but also don't want her taking risks she isn't ready for.

Guess it boils down to where my kid is as a driver.  She needs more practice with unfamiliar trips before she drives to a completely new, distant destination alone.  And she's never driven for 3 hours straight.  We'll work on getting her ready though.

My kids have driven to lots of new-to-them places without me, but my 17yo doesn't really love the driving part, so she generally makes my 16yo drive.  I think that's why we're where we are.

[elegantlion]

18 hours ago, SKL said:

I like the neatness of the "18 or graduation" rule, except that it's a double standard.  The boyfriend is also under 18 and is behind my kid in school.  It's hard to explain the difference to my kid.  I mean, I did say "you are a female not quite 5' tall," which is why I'm not sending her all the way there alone.

Theoretically I could offer to drive her all the way there and back, but tbh I don't want to.  I guess that sounds awful?

No, not really. 3 hours is a long way and I wouldn't be keen on doing that either. 

13 minutes ago, SKL said:

I love this board for discussions like this.  We're everywhere, and all of these concerns are my exact concerns.  Don't want to baby my kid too much, but also don't want her taking risks she isn't ready for.

Guess it boils down to where my kid is as a driver.  She needs more practice with unfamiliar trips before she drives to a completely new, distant destination alone.  And she's never driven for 3 hours straight.  We'll work on getting her ready though.

My kids have driven to lots of new-to-them places without me, but my 17yo doesn't really love the driving part, so she generally makes my 16yo drive.  I think that's why we're where we are.

This is the biggest thing to me. I think meeting halfway is a good compromise. I'd probably try to schedule that drive with you and her at some point, just for your comfort and hers. 

[klmama]

Until my dd went to college 3 hours away, she had never driven farther than an hour from our home.  I wanted her to know where it was safe to stop along the way, so I used Google Maps to check out what was available at each interstate exit.  When we drove to her U for a required event a month before school started, I had her drive and take all the exits with at least one close, relatively safe place to stop, so she'd already know how to find them when she went on her own.  It made her feel a lot better to know where she could stop along the way, and it made me feel a lot better about her traveling alone.  (FWIW, we discussed the relative safety of locations with multiple employees over those with just one, stops with more families as customers over stops with mostly men, etc.)    

[Carol in Cal.]

Personally, I would take her there and expect her bf to provide the ride back.  I would want to see the home and neighborhood myself.  

Also, in advance of that, I would be working on teaching street smarts and awareness, in a casual way.

And lastly I would be drawing her attention to landmarks and directions on the way there, so that if she moves on toward driving there herself she is better prepared for making the trip.  A little familiarity is very helpful at that stage.

[pinball]

Him: “mental health issues” “drug use”

Her:”she doesn't always make the best choices either.  She doesn't always obey my safety rules.  My kid has an IUD and intimacy isn't my concern in this situation.”

No, absolutely not, no. Intimacy should absolutely be a concern. Is she mature enough to insist on a condom, every time? She doesn’t obey your safety rules? What about safe sex safety rules? Bc otherwise, STDs are a huge concern. How about herpes at 17? 

[gardenmom5]

For me - this isn't wouldn't even be on the table for discussion.
He's got mental health issues and drug use?  three hours away? nope.

[pinball]

6 hours ago, MercyA said:

I'd ride with her at least once and see how it goes, and then make my decision about the next time.

I would not be opposed in principle.

What the heck happened to you?

[gardenmom5]

19 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Fwiw, I would not voice the size and height thing (and I say this with people in my extended family who are under 5’ themselves as older adults):

1. Size is not a barrier to assault. Big adults are assaulted just like small ones. 
 

2. She has no control over her height. 
 

3. She will have to navigate the world as a petite adult. She’s almost certain to still be under 5’ as a 50 year old woman, iykwim.

Teach her to be smart. You’ve traveled the world with her. Situational awareness is way more important than size. Teach her to keep her cell phone charged and give her pepper spray if it makes you feel better.

and how to hold her car keys when walking so they make a good weapon.  (so the key is facing out between pointer and middle fingers while clutched in a fist)

[Terabith]

So, two issues:  1) is “do I feel like this is a good/ safe relationship” and am I okay with the overnight visit at his home?  I could see that going either way, but honestly it sounds like you’re fine with that.  My youngest (age 18) has male friends that she’s definitely not in a relationship with but I would be okay with overnights at house with family.  
 

2) Issue is the driving/ situational awareness. Neither of my kids have driven enough that I would be okay with that long distance driving, and my oldest is almost 20.  But it sounds like your daughter has driven a ton more than my kid.  And they have to do it sometime.  I like the idea of the trip being made at least once with me as a passenger, but I think with cell phones, her doing it alone is honestly not that big a deal.  
 

I am going to offer a counter argument to the petite and young making her more vulnerable.  I think in any likely scenario, her size and appearance is likely to be an asset. People are way more likely to stop and help her if she gets a flat tire than they probably would a boy of the same age.  And yes, of course anyone is vulnerable but I think most people who see a young girl are going to feel protective and helpful towards her.  

[dsmith]

I think your compromise is perfect for a first time sleep over, but I would have her drive instead of you driving. 

[Frances]

20 hours ago, almondbutterandjelly said:

Personally, I would not facilitate a relationship between my newly 17 year old who lived 3 hours from her boyfriend.  Those are called long distance teenage relationships, and they often die a natural death.  I certainly wouldn't help it limp along.  (You asked what the Hive would do.)

Same. I had such a relationship in high school and my parents did help once or twice with facilitation likely because I was very mature and responsible. In retrospect, I wish they hadn’t. He was not someone worth making the effort for and turned out to be a cheater with mental health issues. There’s something to be said for knowing more about someone when dating at such a young age because you know lots of their friends, classmates, family, etc. because you live in the same place. All of the red flags that cropped up later with my boyfriend would have been very apparent right away had we lived in the same place and gone to the same school. Thankfully, he was the only bad dating decision I ever made.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Frances

[Frances]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

At 17, my dd moved from our small rural town  to Chicago to attend university. Which meant I had zero control over anything and had to trust her to be safe.

 

I think there can be very significant differences in the maturity of responsibility levels among seventeen year olds and based on previous posts from both you and the OP, your daughters were very different at 17.