Why is this socially required? It's misogyny, isn't it?

[Terabith]

I had the following conversation at work this week:

Fellow Teacher, from a bit away from me:  Terabith!  You got highlights!

Me:  Umm, no, but maybe sun?  Or chlorine?

Boss:  Oh, the chlorine is really bleaching your hair.  It looks great!

Me, getting home and looking in the mirror:  Umm, that is not blonde.  It's definitely gray.  

So I was talking about this at water aerobics, and women were complaining about how much they hated having to have their hair dyed, that they have to go every four weeks, and it takes several hours and costs a hundred bucks every time.  Which I totally believe.  I am firmly committed to NOT dyeing my hair, because I dyed it pink when I turned 40 and then purple over the pandemic, and I loved how it looked, but it was so crazy expensive and it looked terrible growing out but there was no way I was committed to putting in the effort and money to keeping it looking great.  But the idea that it is socially required (and I think for a lot of people professionally, it really truly is required) is massive misogyny.  That is a HUGE time and money sink that men are simply not required to do.  

I'm quite committed to NOT dyeing my gray, and I teach preschool.  It is not socially required to do so.  But it makes me so angry that women feel they must.  

[Carol in Cal.]

Here’s what I know—I have reddish hair, and letting that go is going to be difficult.  It’s part of my identity, really.  Plus I look better, brighter, and somewhat younger with my hair dyed.  Once it goes all white I may reconsider, but the deep gray color that is on top right now is not at all how I want to look.  

I am a low maintenance woman, but I love keeping my hair colored.  

I don’t do facials, makeup except lipstick, haircuts (have not had a blade on my hair in almost 30 years), or manicures (although I occasionally will indulge in a pedicure.).  I think the investment of time and money in my hair color is worth every penny.

[SKL]

I don't agree that it's required.  I know plenty of professional women, including myself, who have never colored our hair.  I also know women who do color their hair, but it's a choice.

I also know men who have colored their hair in order to look younger.  However, this is a big secret.  So the reality is, it's men who don't really have a choice to freely decide whether or not to color their hair (at least where the purpose is to hide the grays).

I've seen women who are absolutely gorgeous with graying / gray / white hair.  If only more women would give it a try.

If you know women who are coloring their hair for the wrong reasons, they are fueling the problem.  I've never ever heard a man tell a woman she needs to color her hair.

[prairiewindmomma]

It’s very regional. 
 

When we go to visit my parents my kids are always freaked out by how nearly every white woman has blonde highlighted hair…warm blonde, not ash. It’s so homogenous that my kids joke about cloning machines. 
 

 

[marbel]

If it's socially required, who is requiring it? 

I mean, I dyed my hair for 30+  years, because I started going gray at 24. My mother, who also grayed early and never colored her hair, told me I should dye it. "you have a long time to have gray hair" she said. I bought a box of dye, and I loved it the way it looked. Finally I stopped during the pandemic. At some points I did feel trapped in it, but it was all me and my attitude, no one else's. My husband didn't care if I stopped. When I went back to work after homeschooling, lots of women had gray hair.  There were also a lot of women who wore wigs as a matter of course, because they liked changing up their hair. 

I know people in the entertainment field have to try to keep looking young. But I can't think of any other professions that require it. - what am I missing?

Based on the young women (mid-20s) I know, I don't think people are bowing to social pressure regarding appearance the way previous generations may have.  But that's a small sample (I don't know hundreds of young women). 

Edited September 27, 2023 by marbel

[klmama]

I know a number of women with really stunning gray/white hair.  Some never dyed it.  A couple with white hair had dyed their hair black or dark brown for years and then finally around age 50 decided to dye it blond just once so that as they let the white grow in, the contrast wouldn't be as stark.  Many of these women actually have really long hair, too, so it's attention grabbing. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by klmama

[Carrie12345]

I’ve never felt compelled to get my hair done (whatever service) for anything but fun. I’m currently toying with getting a cut just because it’s a pain to trim my own ends.

Dh spends way more money on his hair. But that’s because anything is more than nothing, lol.

[prairiewindmomma]

6 minutes ago, marbel said:

If it's socially required, who is requiring it? 

 

Back home, other women required it of each other. If you can afford to have your hair and nails done, then you likely have enough income to fit in to the socially.  Private schools and country clubs are higher bars to clear. 

I think the gen Z equivalent of social judgment in some circles is around what phone you carry and what shoes you wear.

I am really glad to be raising my kids elsewhere. 

[barnwife]

Well, I had a not small amount of gray hair in high school. Now in my mid-40s I am significantly gray. Would I like to color it? Yes. However, I am way too lazy and cheap to deal with the upkeep.

What gets me is the amount of people who feel it's okay to comment on how gray I am (was so young) and then further offer their opinions on whether I should/should not do something about it. 

I'd probably be richer than Bezos if I had just a penny for every comment. At this point, I am able to mostly let it roll off my back. I figure it says something more about the people making comments than about me. So I don't think it's socially required, but people certainly have thoughts about people who don't!

[forty-two]

FWIW, usually when I hear women talking about "having" to dye their hair, it's less "feeling social pressure they can't show gray hair" and more that, having started dyeing their gray, they feel like they "can't stop" because, as you said, the growing out process looks terrible.  Or that, for all that they hate the dyeing process, they hate how they personally look with gray hair more. 

I always intended to go gray with dignity, and now that the time has come, I am indeed doing so.  But I do feel a pang of "definitely not young", and a bit of concern that it's going to age me compared to others (because the norm is to not go gray).  And this is even though I think it looks pretty good - it's a pretty silver, and makes for a nice, dramatic contrast with my dark brown hair; objectively, I think it's as distinguished-looking on me as it is on forty-something men.  But it was easier to take when there was just a few strands at my hairline - now that it's becoming more noticeable, I guess I'm borrowing trouble about what it will look like when the grays take over.  But I'm still not going to dye it - I've never had that habit, and I have no intention of starting.  But it's taking a bit more deliberate determination to decide to be happy with it than I thought it would.

ETA:  But I don't feel or notice social pressure to not go gray.  Honestly, in general I think there's a lot *less* pressure to avoid going gray than in previous generations - I read lots of stuff about women encouraging each other to embrace going gray.

Edited September 27, 2023 by forty-two

[MercyA]

My DH actually prefers I not dye my hair. I do it for me. I like to look younger. 

[Faith-manor]

In the music performance profession, there is a lot of discrimination. A man can look like a fossil, and if he plays his instrument well, everything is good. Grey haired woman looking her age? Ha ha ha ha ha ha...nope. I know a ton of female performers who spend a lot of money disguising age so they can keep working. It sucks.

I do color my hair, but that is for me. I have a reddish mahogany and sometimes add a little lavender or purple here and there for fun. I only pop in contacts, and do a bunch of make up when I have a paid music gig.

If I were to finish my degree in aerospace engineering, I am not sure what I would encounter, but since it is predominately a male field and I would be coming into it at 55, I am pretty certain the only way I would get hired is to have some plastic surgery, keep the hair died and trendy, etc. I wish I had known a couple of decades ago just how much I would end up loving aerospace so I could have reinvented my career trajectory at an age when I had a much better chance of employment.

My acquaintances in other fields seem to be able to wear their age without issue.

[sweet2ndchance]

When I color my hair, I do so for me, not anyone else. When I was younger, coloring my hair was fun. Now that I have enough greys that one might want to hide them, I'm just too lazy and don't care what anyone else thinks. I come as I am, like it or not.

My husband likes when I get the itch to dye my hair wild colors like purple. But he never says anything about my hair when I don't feel like dyeing.

I do like pedicures and wish I could justify the cost to go more often. But again I'm doing it for me, not to fit in somewhere or impress anybody. I just like the way my feet feel and look after a pedicure. I can never do as good a job myself as they do at the nail salon.

[Ausmumof3]

I think it’s becoming more socially acceptable to have grey hair.

I also think when women have grey hair they typically have more of it so it’s a bit more obvious. Bald men tend to feel social pressure to shave their heads or do something as well. Maybe it’s more ageism than misogyny 

[Melissa in Australia]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

In the music performance profession, there is a lot of discrimination. A man can look like a fossil, and if he plays his instrument well, everything is good. Grey haired woman looking her age? Ha ha ha ha ha ha...nope. I know a ton of female performers who spend a lot of money disguising age so they can keep working. It sucks.

I do color my hair, but that is for me. I have a reddish mahogany and sometimes add a little lavender or purple here and there for fun. I only pop in contacts, and do a bunch of make up when I have a paid music gig.

If I were to finish my degree in aerospace engineering, I am not sure what I would encounter, but since it is predominately a male field and I would be coming into it at 55, I am pretty certain the only way I would get hired is to have some plastic surgery, keep the hair died and trendy, etc. I wish I had known a couple of decades ago just how much I would end up loving aerospace so I could have reinvented my career trajectory at an age when I had a much better chance of employment.

My acquaintances in other fields seem to be able to wear their age without issue.

There are grey haired and white haired engineer females in the workspace that my aerospace engineer son works in

[Resilient]

Be thankful you have hair.  
 

some don’t. 
 

And most but not all of my 60s friends are done dyeing and they look great.  Their hair matches the rest of them. One friend continues to dye her hair dark brown and it really is not synchronous with her face.  She looks great in her face —for 65— but the 40-ish hair is dissonant.  

Edited September 27, 2023 by Resilient

[sweet2ndchance]

31 minutes ago, Resilient said:

And most but not all of my 60s friends are done dyeing and they look great.  Their hair matches the rest of them. One friend continues to dye her hair dark brown and it really is not synchronous with her face.  She looks great in her face —for 65— but the 40-ish hair is dissonant.

My husband's grandmother does this and she is in her 70s. I agree that it looks a bit off that her hair color doesn't match her face. Plus she keeps her hair in a short cut typical of older women so the roots are very obvious when she goes to get them redone once a month or so. I just don't have the mental energy to care enough to put that kind of effort into my hair and I'm 25 years younger than her.

[Resilient]

3 minutes ago, sweet2ndchance said:

My husband's grandmother does this and she is in her 70s. I agree that it looks a bit off that her hair color doesn't match her face. Plus she keeps her hair in a short cut typical of older women so the roots are very obvious when she goes to get them redone once a month or so. I just don't have the mental energy to care enough to put that kind of effort into my hair and I'm 25 years younger than her.

My pedicure magician said there’s a lady who comes in 3x a week to have her hair colored.  Her husband insists.  My magician is a refugee who gives back out of her poverty. The situation with this woman is incomprehensible at a personal snd economic level. 
 

Someone I love, aged 10, noted that the referenced friend would be a beautiful 60yo.  But she’s not a beautiful 40yo, at 65.  
 

and yet—I get it.  I see my aging friends and see them as beautiful.  But so much with my own sorry self.  Perspective.  

[Resilient]

4 minutes ago, Resilient said:

My pedicure magician said there’s a lady who comes in 3x a week to have her hair colored.  Her husband insists.  My magician is a refugee who gives back out of her poverty. The situation with this woman is incomprehensible at a personal snd economic level. 
 

Someone I love, aged 10, noted that the referenced friend would be a beautiful 60yo.  But she’s not a beautiful 40yo, at 65.  
 

and yet—I get it.  I see my aging friends and see them as beautiful.  But not so much with my own sorry aging

self.  Perspective.  

 

[Eos]

Misogyny, ageism, and a bit of a fetish, I think.  I dyed my hair black and henna red when I was a teen and into my 20s but my grandmother and mother and aunties never changed their graying/white hair so it wasn't part of my culture growing up.  Now I have crazy streaks of silver in my very long hair and I love it - I've earned every one of those white hairs.

[Melanie32]

I grew out my gray at 43 and received so much judgement and so many negative comments! Once it grew out, I began to get a lot of compliments. I keep it long and it is mixed with my brown hair but mostly gray. The funny thing is that young people love it! I get so many compliments from people (male and female) in the young adult age range. So I think the pressure on women to dye their hair as they age will only continue to grow less and less with  so many of the younger generation thinking gray hair is cool. 
 

The first two years of growing it out was hard with all the negative comments but they came from women, not men. My husband was the first to encourage me to quit dying it.

[Shoeless]

I haven't dyed my hair in 6-ish years. Long enough that I've lost track of the last time I did it. I look blonde again, (I was blonde as a kid then my hair turned darker).  There's a lot of grey in there to be sure, but it looks mostly blonde to my eye. Or maybe it's just "yellowing gray", which is apparently a bad thing because they sell special shampoos to "remove the yellow" from gray hair. I don't get it. I thought yellow hair was just...blonde. 

The young 20-something woman at Office Depot asked me "Is that your natural color? It's so pretty!" I was so surprised by her reaction that I just went "uh...yeah...thanks". 

[Pawz4me]

5 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Maybe it’s more ageism than misogyny 

I think a lot of it is ageism. We had a thread on here awhile back. Someone was applying for a job and wanted to know if she should color her hair or if it was okay to leave natural. I thought her natural hair was absolutely lovely, but the majority said that if she wanted the best chance of being hired she should color it so she'd look younger.

I did go through a period of coloring my hair, but it was in my early 40's. I had it done at a salon, and it was totally for myself--I loved the way it looked and it made me feel better about myself. I'm an extremely low maintenance person, so that was out of the ordinary for me. But as I got more gray and the color needed to be done ever more frequently I stopped. I had my limit to how much time (and cost) I was willing to deal with. It wasn't that worth it to me.

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Shoeless said:

I haven't dyed my hair in 6-ish years. Long enough that I've lost track of the last time I did it. I look blonde again, (I was blonde as a kid then my hair turned darker).  There's a lot of grey in there to be sure, but it looks mostly blonde to my eye. Or maybe it's just "yellowing gray", which is apparently a bad thing because they sell special shampoos to "remove the yellow" from gray hair. I don't get it. I thought yellow hair was just...blonde. 

The young 20-something woman at Office Depot asked me "Is that your natural color? It's so pretty!" I was so surprised by her reaction that I just went "uh...yeah...thanks". 

My white hair can get a yellowish tint in one area. It is not the same as blonde. I can't explain the difference really, it just doesn't look the same, it doesn't look good. A brightening conditioner helps remove (or neutralize?) it. 

ETA: I think the word I'm looking for is "dingy." Like old white sheets that aren't really white anymore but have a yellowish cast to them. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by marbel

[wintermom]

It does seem to be somewhat circumstantial and regional whether one dyes their hair or not. I've got my dad's genes for hair colour, which is that it doesn't go grey. He died at 87 with black hair. It was all well and good for him, but he put pressure on my mom to dye her hair so she wouldn't look onder than him. As soon as dad passed away, mom stopped dyeing her hair and it is a beautiful soft white colour which looks fantastic on her. 

I'm 56 and have no grey hairs yet. I've experimented with dyeing it a couple times in my youth, and didn't like the results. When I do go grey I will probably not bother dyeing it. In my professional work situation, I see most women my age (or younger) without grey hair. So either they've got similar genes to me, or at least some of them dye their hair. Outside of work, most of my friends don't dye their hair, but my sil's do. 

I have noticed that in Norway, the current trend is to embrace the grey. Perhaps not those in certiain industries (entertainment), but otherwise it's go grey. 

[DawnM]

10 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Here’s what I know—I have reddish hair, and letting that go is going to be difficult.  It’s part of my identity, really.  Plus I look better, brighter, and somewhat younger with my hair dyed.  Once it goes all white I may reconsider, but the deep gray color that is on top right now is not at all how I want to look.  

I am a low maintenance woman, but I love keeping my hair colored.  

I don’t do facials, makeup except lipstick, haircuts (have not had a blade on my hair in almost 30 years), or manicures (although I occasionally will indulge in a pedicure.).  I think the investment of time and money in my hair color is worth every penny.

This is me too.  

But I color it myself.   I buy the Madison Reed products, which are more $$ than store boxed dye, but still way cheaper than a salon, and I get to sit on WTM while my hair is saturating! 😃

[DawnM]

I don't know that it is misogyny.    I mean, I do a lot of things like wear clothing that I find the most flattering, put on some make up, wear deodorant, wear earrings, etc.....I don't do this for male attention, but I still want to look decent.   

I am a redhead and my gray washes me out.   I will continue to color my hair for now.   It might take a while each month, but I do it at home, and there are many things I don't want to do but do in order to look decent....some days I don't even want to bother with a shower......but I need to not stink.

[MEmama]

I agree it's regional.

I'd say the majority of women my age around here let their hair go grey. There's no stigma surrounding it at all, that I'm aware of.

[cintinative]

Do you all think there could be a socio-economic aspect to this? Our area tends to be upper middle class and a lot of women get highlights or color their hair.  My family doesn't match with them in many aspects, and the money spent on hair (haircuts, coloring, etc.) is just one of them. 

[Melanie32]

Most people around here (South Florida) still dye their hair regardless of income. The lower income people just use box dye. 
 

I do see more and more gray haired ladies as time goes on. When I first went gray several years ago, I didn’t see very many but now I see at least one or two every time I go anywhere. If I go somewhere more densely populated, I see lots. 
 

I used boxed semi permanent dye (natural instincts) for many years. It became less effective as the gray took over my head. I went straight from that to gray hair. I’ve only had my hair dyed at a salon once and the results weren’t any better than what I was able to achieve at home and then the grow out line was much more harsh. I always stuck to dying it my natural dark brown color. 

[Bambam]

I don't believe it is only women.
Often men in the job market who are older also dye their hair if they are unemployed but have much gray hair. 

I started going gray really early, but my hair was a light brown/dark blonde, so the gray was really white, so it did look like highlights. Whatever. I had an older lady once ask me if my children were my grandchildren. I did have it dyed once early on, but it scared me when I saw myself in the mirror, and it was expensive. Not something I wanted to spend the time and money on, so I've never done it again. I do not care what others think. I've had several moms ask me if I thought about coloring my hair over the years. Nope, not interested. It is a pretty white now (except the back!), and it does it not bother me at all. I am what I am. 

One of my children (25) already has a noticeable amount of gray which is obvious with her dark hair.  The younger one probably also has some, but her hair is light enough that it doesn't show yet.  I don't think the older will ever dye her hair to cover the gray but might well to get some non-natural hair color! The younger probably will dye her hair if the gray becomes even slightly obvious. 

[MercyA]

Roots become noticeable in my dark brown hair after about two weeks. There's no way I would have the time or money to go to the salon that often. It takes me about $7 and about an hour total a month to keep my hair brown. Well worth it IMO. 

(I always have great coupons from CVS and almost never pay more than half price for hair color.)

Edited September 27, 2023 by MercyA

[GailV]

It seems regional to me.

It's become more popular here in the past few years. I grew out the grey during Covid, and I noticed quite a few other women doing the same. 

Now that I'm grey I get compliments on my skin, which is sort of funny. I guess that means my face matches my hair, or possibly looks younger than my hair.

OTOH, dh colors his hair. So do all the women in his family, including his mother who is nearly 90. I'm pretty sure they're all appalled by my grey hair, although they never say anything to me about it. A petty observation: My skin looks so much better than theirs.

[Scarlett]

11 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Here’s what I know—I have reddish hair, and letting that go is going to be difficult.  It’s part of my identity, really.  Plus I look better, brighter, and somewhat younger with my hair dyed.  Once it goes all white I may reconsider, but the deep gray color that is on top right now is not at all how I want to look.  

I am a low maintenance woman, but I love keeping my hair colored.  

I don’t do facials, makeup except lipstick, haircuts (have not had a blade on my hair in almost 30 years), or manicures (although I occasionally will indulge in a pedicure.).  I think the investment of time and money in my hair color is worth every penny.

Same with me.  My dark hair is very much part of my identity. 
 

Dh doesn’t really want me to go grey but it is mostly myself I do it for. 

[Kalmia]

I think I am the odd woman out in Maine dying my hair. Working or not, older women rarely dye their hair here unless they are on TV. I started going gray at 36 and if I was with my kids and my mom or my mil, both of whom dyed their hair at the time, people would think Mom or MIL was the MOTHER and I was the GRANDMOTHER (despite my lack of wrinkles). So I dyed my hair. I look 10 years younger when I dye it. Now at a much older age than 36, my hair is white and extremely fine, sometimes it breaks just finger combing it. When I get the roots showing you can see my scalp. It is not acceptable to me. I am a woman who does not wear makeup, only uses natural ingredient moisturizer, and eats organic, yet I buy boxed color ($9.99 a box) and it makes me happy not to look like I have 80 year old hair in my 50s. In general society, I think feeling it necessary to dye to have a professional job would be more ageism. Women throughout history have had more interest in having fun with their looks than men have in theirs and so women would be more likely to recognize and respond to ageism in this particular form. 

Oh, and my husband and both my kids want me to go grey again like I was in my thirties (technically, I couldn't because it is now white, but they wouldn't mind white either), so clearly it's for me that I color.

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Kalmia

[marbel]

I had a couple of reasons for dying my hair for so long: 

1. I am 8 years older than my husband, and yes I do look older than him. He isn't bothered by it (or claims not to be, anyway) but (pre-covid) being gray and looking *that* much older than him was not appealing.

2. I had my kids late in life. Many, many times I was called "grandma" by strangers. I mean, I am old enough to be their grandma, but come on. I remember a grocery store clerk *arguing* with me that my baby was indeed *my* baby. Stupid people. So it didn't seem like a good idea to go gray and potentially make that worse. But usually those people were women, not men. I do remember one funny time I was mistaken for grandma (even with brown hair) - the young male receptionist at the orthodontist called me up to the desk by my kid's name, and said "Mom" and then looked at me and said "Or grandma?" I said "it's Mom" and he looked so embarrassed. He apologized like crazy and said his own mom would be so mad at him.  I said "look, be safe, always assume mom. If it is grandma, she'll be flattered. If it's mom, you'll have avoided offending her." He was very sweet and I wasn't mad., we were both laughing at the end of the exchange. I'm sure he never did that again. 

 

[Dmmetler]

8 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

In the music performance profession, there is a lot of discrimination. A man can look like a fossil, and if he plays his instrument well, everything is good. Grey haired woman looking her age? Ha ha ha ha ha ha...nope. I know a ton of female performers who spend a lot of money disguising age so they can keep working. It sucks.

I do color my hair, but that is for me. I have a reddish mahogany and sometimes add a little lavender or purple here and there for fun. I only pop in contacts, and do a bunch of make up when I have a paid music gig.

If I were to finish my degree in aerospace engineering, I am not sure what I would encounter, but since it is predominately a male field and I would be coming into it at 55, I am pretty certain the only way I would get hired is to have some plastic surgery, keep the hair died and trendy, etc. I wish I had known a couple of decades ago just how much I would end up loving aerospace so I could have reinvented my career trajectory at an age when I had a much better chance of employment.

My acquaintances in other fields seem to be able to wear their age without issue.

My DH is concerned that if he ever loses his job (he's well into the double digits of tech company survivor rounds he's survived) he'll struggle to get a other because old isn't respected in tech. For him, it's less hair color (although his hair went from Black to white early), and that he's losing his hair. 

 

I figure one thing about teaching music is that everyone has good memories of the little old lady music teacher. However, women in my family seem to get washed out vs grey, so I don't know that I'll ever get true white hair as opposed to sort of a greyish-brown. I've considered trying purple or pink, but am kind of scared to do it. 

[elegantlion]

I quit dyeing my hair about a decade ago - using box. At 56, it's brown/grey/silver and generally I'm not bothered by it. There are certain circles in our area where women do dye to a "normal" color on a regular basis. I'm not in those circles. There are also a lot of people here dyeing bright colors, blue, purple, pink, etc. I did a semi-permanent magenta a few months ago. I loved it. I'm hoping to do that again. It was subtle enough. 

My hair is curly and I end up wearing it up a lot of the time. Although I've been going grey since my 40s, recently it's more dull than it used to be. 

[Faith-manor]

23 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

My DH is concerned that if he ever loses his job (he's well into the double digits of tech company survivor rounds he's survived) he'll struggle to get a other because old isn't respected in tech. For him, it's less hair color (although his hair went from Black to white early), and that he's losing his hair. 

 

I figure one thing about teaching music is that everyone has good memories of the little old lady music teacher. However, women in my family seem to get washed out vs grey, so I don't know that I'll ever get true white hair as opposed to sort of a greyish-brown. I've considered trying purple or pink, but am kind of scared to do it. 

Mark is afraid of this too. He has been wondering if Rogaine would help his receding hairline and thicken his hair. He has a light mousy color hair naturally so his grey actually blends. But the recent receding hairline and thinness concerns him, and his face is really looking aged from stress. His tech group has been cut to the bone, and though he keeps surviving these cutbacks, he is very worried about what would happen if he had to look for another job. His resume` is outstanding, but ageism is so bad in tech. He did tell me he is very concerned for one of his female colleagues. She is bizarrely good at her job, and being employed should not be a problem. However, she is 52 and looks 65, and he said not only is there a lot of misogyny in tech so if she was not working remote (which she is now) that is an issue she would face that he doesn't, but to add the ageism onto the sexism is just a major double whammie and he feels it would be very hard for her to find a position. 

We have no experience with Rogaine so no idea if it actually works.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Faith-manor

[vonfirmath]

12 hours ago, Terabith said:

I had the following conversation at work this week:

Fellow Teacher, from a bit away from me:  Terabith!  You got highlights!

Me:  Umm, no, but maybe sun?  Or chlorine?

Boss:  Oh, the chlorine is really bleaching your hair.  It looks great!

Me, getting home and looking in the mirror:  Umm, that is not blonde.  It's definitely gray.  

So I was talking about this at water aerobics, and women were complaining about how much they hated having to have their hair dyed, that they have to go every four weeks, and it takes several hours and costs a hundred bucks every time.  Which I totally believe.  I am firmly committed to NOT dyeing my hair, because I dyed it pink when I turned 40 and then purple over the pandemic, and I loved how it looked, but it was so crazy expensive and it looked terrible growing out but there was no way I was committed to putting in the effort and money to keeping it looking great.  But the idea that it is socially required (and I think for a lot of people professionally, it really truly is required) is massive misogyny.  That is a HUGE time and money sink that men are simply not required to do.  

I'm quite committed to NOT dyeing my gray, and I teach preschool.  It is not socially required to do so.  But it makes me so angry that women feel they must.  

I do not think it is required at all to dye hair.

White/gray hair is distinguished

 

[EKS]

I was not aware that coloring one's hair was socially required.  I'm not sure why we need to jump straight to misogyny as an explanation for women feeling like they want to look a certain way.

[MEmama]

50 minutes ago, Dmmetler said:

I've considered trying purple or pink, but am kind of scared to do it. 

Have you seen Overtone conditioner? https://overtone.co/  It's just conditioner--no chemicals, totally not permanent, and leaves hair super soft and healthy. It comes in all kinds of colours from natural shades to fun ones so you can play without the commitment of actual dye! 
 

I use both a dark brown to match my natural colour (it colours over most of my greys but not all) and purple where my hair is wavy 🙂 

[El...]

18 minutes ago, MEmama said:

Have you seen Overtone conditioner? https://overtone.co/  It's just conditioner--no chemicals, totally not permanent, and leaves hair super soft and healthy. It comes in all kinds of colours from natural shades to fun ones so you can play without the commitment of actual dye! 
 

I use both a dark brown to match my natural colour (it colours over most of my greys but not all) and purple where my hair is wavy 🙂 

How quickly does this wash out? I'm considering something colorful for Halloween, but I've never tried this sort of thing before. 

[MEmama]

10 minutes ago, El... said:

How quickly does this wash out? I'm considering something colorful for Halloween, but I've never tried this sort of thing before. 

It probably depends on your hair? Mine is naturally dark brown, the purple fades out pretty quickly. I use the brown pretty much every day so I can't speak to how quickly it would fade.

I have read it takes longer in light and blonde hair, so you might take that into consideration. It would depend on how frequently you wash your hair, too. I only wash mine every 2-3 days.

They have a trial size available if you only want enough for a special event, or if you want to test it without buying a larger amount.  It's very thick and a container lasts a looong time, IME.

[fairfarmhand]

I wish I had pretty gray hair. My hair texture is just not pretty so it grows in scraggly and witchlike. Dyeing it gives it an improved texture. Also being fair skinned, having darker hair keeps me from being more washed out. I don't dye very dark. It's the lightest brown they make. If I had a good texture to my hair, I'd totally let it go gray. But alas....

[Clemsondana]

I know a lot of women who dye their hair, but also a lot who don't.  It doesn't seem to correlate with make-up wearing or how 'put together' these people usually appear.  Several women in my orbit quit coloring after their roots grew out when salons were closed.  I tend to attribute it to preference about how they want to look.  I almost always wear make-up - just powder foundation, a dash of blush, and tinted lip balm.  Total time - under 1 minute.  I don't like looking pale, although I'm not obsessive about it and have no problem running to the store without it.  I still use hot rollers because I hate how lank my hair looks, but I also often just stick it in a bun while wet and don't fuss with it at all.  I don't wear sandals without painted toenails.  None of this is about societal expectations as best I can tell, since the people around me all have very different sets of things that they do, whether it be dressing nicer or always wearing jewelry (I don't even have pierced ears!) or wearing nice shoes instead of Birks and flip flops.  My spouse, who is mostly bald with mostly gray hair where it remains, would never run around in the athletic wear that I don't think twice about wearing.  So, with all of that, I'd assume that by 'have to'  it means 'I'm irritated that now I have to do something to look the way that I want to look', in the same way that I used to say 'I have to wear contacts' - I wear glasses now and they were always acceptable, but if I wanted to be glasses-free I had to wear contacts.  

[Lady Florida.]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

I was not aware that coloring one's hair was socially required.  I'm not sure why we need to jump straight to misogyny as an explanation for women feeling like they want to look a certain way.

I don't think it's socially required but I think in the work world there's a combination of misogyny and ageism making women feel the need to stay younger looking. As was mentioned upthread men seem to feel that thinning hair/balding is something they need to hide.

In the non work world where I reside, at least in my area, it's anything goes you do you.

1 hour ago, fairfarmhand said:

I wish I had pretty gray hair. My hair texture is just not pretty so it grows in scraggly and witchlike. Dyeing it gives it an improved texture. Also being fair skinned, having darker hair keeps me from being more washed out. I don't dye very dark. It's the lightest brown they make. If I had a good texture to my hair, I'd totally let it go gray. But alas....

Same here. My maternal grandmother had beautiful silver hair. When my mom decided to go gray it came in coarse, scraggly, and yellowish. She was sorry she stopped coloring it and was never able to get the gray to "take" color again. I seem to have her gray rather than my grandma's. I have it professionally done because I like the result and don't want to deal with doing it at home. It's as close to my natural brown as I can get but with some added blonde highlights to blend the gray. I've talked to my stylist and when I'm finally ready to go all gray she'll help my hair make the transition.

36 minutes ago, Clemsondana said:

I know a lot of women who dye their hair, but also a lot who don't.  It doesn't seem to correlate with make-up wearing or how 'put together' these people usually appear.  Several women in my orbit quit coloring after their roots grew out when salons were closed.  I tend to attribute it to preference about how they want to look.  I almost always wear make-up - just powder foundation, a dash of blush, and tinted lip balm.  Total time - under 1 minute.  I don't like looking pale, although I'm not obsessive about it and have no problem running to the store without it.  I still use hot rollers because I hate how lank my hair looks, but I also often just stick it in a bun while wet and don't fuss with it at all.  I don't wear sandals without painted toenails.  None of this is about societal expectations as best I can tell, since the people around me all have very different sets of things that they do, whether it be dressing nicer or always wearing jewelry (I don't even have pierced ears!) or wearing nice shoes instead of Birks and flip flops.  My spouse, who is mostly bald with mostly gray hair where it remains, would never run around in the athletic wear that I don't think twice about wearing.  So, with all of that, I'd assume that by 'have to'  it means 'I'm irritated that now I have to do something to look the way that I want to look', in the same way that I used to say 'I have to wear contacts' - I wear glasses now and they were always acceptable, but if I wanted to be glasses-free I had to wear contacts. 

This describes my social circle as well as the wider attitudes in my area. I don't always wear makeup but some friends do. I have one close friend who gets gel nails (fingers and toes) regularly, gets her hair dyed, and always wears makeup. Another does none of that. Several others like me are somewhere in between. I get my hair colored regularly, sometimes I wear my contacts, my fingernails are filed short and neat and never polished but I often get a pedicure (sandals/open toe shoes year round make painted toenails fun), and sometimes I wear makeup. All of us do these things not because of misogyny or ageism (and not to fight those things in the case of one who does none of the above). We do it or don't because we like to, we know we're privileged to be able to afford it, and because makes *us* feel good. We don't do it for anyone else. 

[prairiewindmomma]

On the hair loss bit—there are several oral meds which tend to work better than the topical stuff: finasteride, minoxidil, spironolactone, etc. All are generic and reasonably affordable.

[Shoeless]

5 hours ago, cintinative said:

Do you all think there could be a socio-economic aspect to this? Our area tends to be upper middle class and a lot of women get highlights or color their hair.  My family doesn't match with them in many aspects, and the money spent on hair (haircuts, coloring, etc.) is just one of them. 

Absolutely. There is a snooty town near me and the women all have a certain "Look" that includes multi -step highlights, lowlights, etc. 

I have no idea how people afford this plus the giant house with pool, kids in multiple activities, etc. 

[Clemsondana]

Having read more comments, I think we underestimate how many operate in micro-social groups.  Several years ago I went to a women's retreat event with my mom's church.  Some church groups chose to wear matching event T-shirts, but even without that you could often tell which groups went together. Whether everybody had the same style purse, or they all wore the same brand of sandals, or had similar haircuts...people tend to do things similarly to their social group because that's what's 'normal' or 'stylish'.  These weren't necessarily expensive things - most people in mom's group wore a particular brand of sandal that is under $30.  One person got some and said that they were comfortable, and others followed...and they are comfy, I have several pairs.  🙂  So, for some there could be a feeling of everybody doing it even though the rest of us aren't seeing it.  I see a lot of diversity of practice, but I travel between very different circles that don't really overlap much.