Most women who are married are going to end up widows

[Laura Corin]

A quotation from a veteran British politician who just lost her husband of forty years. I'd somehow not thought in these terms,

“Most women who are married are going to end up as widows, and yet to all of us it comes as a shock. I felt, why did nobody ever tell me I was going to be a widow? Actually, we may spend many decades of our life not in a partnership. My mum lived for 30 years after Dad died. So it is very odd that it should be a shock.'

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fd1d8711-09db-4249-ab52-cef7a028c6df?shareToken=4ff770df6a5858eac2e7861b89e42d33

I'm just pondering this. Husband and I have been married for 31 years, together for 35. He's 6 1/2 years older than I. I'm now sixty.

[Faith-manor]

I am four years younger than Dh. His dad only lived to 68. My mom has been a widow for 6 years and turns 80 next month. It is something that has been on my horizon, sadly, for most of married life since the statistics on women out living men were discussed in my Intro to Psych class in college many moons ago. I don't like the idea of it, but the probability is high.

[Meriwether]

My husband is much healthier than I am, so I expect he will outlive me, probably by a lot, barring accidents.

[Carol in Cal.]

I’ve always had that in mind.  Women live longer than men, as a group, and tend to marry older men.  The combo means a heavy female demographic  in late retirement ages.

[Tenaj]

My mom always assumed my dad would go first because he was seven years older.  She had a plan as to what she would do, he made the same assumption and then she passed away at the age of 79.  Never did any of us ever think that dad would be by himself!   I'm amazed but after the initial six months or so he has been doing really well and I'm very proud of him for staying active socially and learning how to cook for himself.  

Statistics are one thing but reality often differs so I think we should all be prepared for whichever way life pans out.

[Grace Hopper]

My dh is a bit younger than I am. Both sets of parents are long-lived, into the mid 80’s. He is generally healthier than me in some ways, but one of these days his eating habits are likely to catch up with him! But truly, aside from accidental death which could happen to either of us at any time, I don’t think either of us will be spouseless for too many years - certainly not 30!

Of course, stranger things and all that… Kinda like walking over a grave to discuss it, iykwim, but yes, while neither spouse should be clueless about finances and details necessary to live beyond the partnership, it’s women who are most likely to both experience the loss and be ignorant of many matters the husband took care of. 

[JennyD]

I think about this often.   I am a few years older than DH, but regardless, the absolute best-case scenario for a marriage is that you are blissfully happy for many years and then one of you has to live through the death of the other one. 

[TexasProud]

Yes, I assumed this would be the case. With all of my  grandparents, parents, aunts and uncles, there was only one instance where the male outlived the female and that was my mom...though my dad died 15 years before she did and they were divorced, so really that is kind of a both, I guess.  But yes, and most of the women I know have lived 15-25 years longer than their husbands. I literally thought of that with my husband and tried to really enjoy our trip together because honestly, he could be gone tomorrow.  We just don't know. 

[TexasProud]

36 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

My dh is a bit younger than I am. Both sets of parents are long-lived, into the mid 80’s.

So funny.  To me, 80's feels the normal age, not long lived.  But we have had many grandparents and church people who lived into their 100's.  I know and have known quite a few people in their 90's who are very active in our church. They do nursery, volunteer at Helping Hands, work at Habitat, etc. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by TexasProud

[Pam in CT]

re The Absolute Best Case

2 minutes ago, JennyD said:

I think about this often.   I am a few years older than DH, but regardless, the absolute best-case scenario for a marriage is that you are blissfully happy for many years and then one of you has to live through the death of the other one. 

Yeah. I think this is the healthiest, most abundant, most life-affirming way to think about it. 

The best case is, we have a good long run together.

And then one of us goes first, leaving the other to live on as meaningfully and comfortably as possible.

 

Statistically, it's more probable that it will be the woman who lives on, likely for a number of years. 

(All probabilities are distribution; in a zillion throws of the dice there will be MANY double-1s and double-6s, nonetheless a throw totalling 5-9 is vastly more probable than a throw totalling 2 or 12.)

It makes sense to plan for the best case, which includes baking into the plan who is the most-probable surviving spouse.

[Laura Corin]

Looking at my parents and grandparents: my mother lived 22 years longer than my father; my maternal grandmother died by suicide at age 80, but there was a big age gap,  so she had already lived 25 years without my grandfather; my paternal grandfather, however, outlived his first wife - my grandmother  - by about 25 years.

[Lynn in al]

I believe statistically that is true.  But my mil passed over 20 years before fil and my sister's I never thought my mom would pass before my dad.  Yet here we are.  

[Ottakee]

Yes.  This is the pattern.

Not to be uncaring but so often I hear that “an elderly couple was tragically killed in a car accident” or something g like that.   While tragic for the family, it might be a blessing that they went at the same time and didn’t suffer.

[Annie G]

9 minutes ago, Lynn in al said:

I believe statistically that is true.  But my mil passed over 20 years before fil and my sister's I never thought my mom would pass before my dad.  Yet here we are.  

Same here- dh and I never thought our moms would pass before our dads, but that’s what happened. My dad had several heart attacks before I turned 20 and yet here he is, nearly 92, living independently. 
I think it’s going to be interesting moving forward- our parents smoked for years, 3 had years of food insecurity as kids, and my folks drank. Dh and I have never had those issues.  Then again, dh and I have had much easier lives, less physical work than our parents…and that might be what hurts us. Who knows, ya know? 

[Ananda]

A topic for me!  I lost my husband unexpectedly May 2022.  I was completely blindsided.  He was 38 and as far as we knew in good health.  He wasn't like a fitness bro or anything.  But he was able to do a day at the zoo and bike to work and everything.  Anyway he died of congestive heart failure.  It was a week between him  being referred to a cardiologist by our GP (he was having trouble sleeping) to me taking him off life support. 

I am so so glad that I married young, we had a blissful 15 year marriage.  But the idea that it might have to sustain me for 50 or more years, terrifies me.  Because I married young, I had never adulted without him.  It is nice to know I can, I had always wondered.  

Then there is the issue of my kids.  My youngest was 6.  You aren't supposed to lose your daddy when you are 6.  I am learning that having a very involved daddy that loved you for six years, is better than having a bad dad or a dad that abandoned you.  So there is that.  

 

[Kassia]

@Ananda I'm so sorry for your loss.  

[Pawz4me]

Yes, that’s certainly the way it usually seems to go. I think it’s good to plan for the most likely outcome but also take into account all the possibilities. DH was diagnosed with stage IV cancer over six years ago. He continues to do fairly well, but the odds certainly are that I’ll outlive him. But then we’ve known a number of younger, seemingly healthy people who have died since his diagnosis, so we really don’t assume anything. 
 

Hugs for you, @Ananda.

[Pam in CT]

I am so sorry for your loss @Ananda . 

And I am sure you are right about your six year old son. To be loved deeply, even if briefly, is a precious gift.

[Bambam]

I've thought about this. My parents did not fit the statistic as my mom died from cancer less than a year before my dad died. I will say that many widows brought that man pies very quickly after my mom passed away. He thought they were being nice. I thought it very probable they were thinking that here was an unattached eligible widower. 
 

[Scarlett]

21 minutes ago, Ananda said:

A topic for me!  I lost my husband unexpectedly May 2022.  I was completely blindsided.  He was 38 and as far as we knew in good health.  He wasn't like a fitness bro or anything.  But he was able to do a day at the zoo and bike to work and everything.  Anyway he died of congestive heart failure.  It was a week between him  being referred to a cardiologist by our GP (he was having trouble sleeping) to me taking him off life support. 

I am so so glad that I married young, we had a blissful 15 year marriage.  But the idea that it might have to sustain me for 50 or more years, terrifies me.  Because I married young, I had never adulted without him.  It is nice to know I can, I had always wondered.  

Then there is the issue of my kids.  My youngest was 6.  You aren't supposed to lose your daddy when you are 6.  I am learning that having a very involved daddy that loved you for six years, is better than having a bad dad or a dad that abandoned you.  So there is that.  

 

I am so sorry for your loss. My MIL lost her first husband when they were both 37 years old.  She was pregnant with their 7th child.  She stayed single for 10 years and then married a widowed family friend and stayed married to him for  30 years until he died.  
 

[Scarlett]

I am two years older than Dh but I have always assumed I would end up widowed.  His health is not great, but not sure if it is stuff that will kill him.  Shrug.  Maybe I just assume it trying to prepare myself for the worst.  
 

[rebcoola]

Yes this gas been my expectation in life my Grandma remarried and still wound up widow for 30 years after the 2nd husband also died young.  Dh is 8 years older than me so I expect to be widowed

[TravelingChris]

43 minutes ago, Ananda said:

 

Then there is the issue of my kids.  My youngest was 6.  You aren't supposed to lose your daddy when you are 6.  I am learning that having a very involved daddy that loved you for six years, is better than having a bad dad or a dad that abandoned you.  So there is that.  

 

Very sorry about your dh.  My father died when I had just turned 13 and my sister was 10.  One thing that happens in our society that really bothered us as kids were all the Daddy and me events and even worse was when people assumed my parents were divorced.

 

[TravelingChris]

As to the OT, I am 11 months older than dh.  He doesn't have all the autoimmune diseases like I do  but he has some like asthma that he  doesn't care about  and his sleep apnea isn't being treated correctly. So who knows?

[Wheres Toto]

I've been aware of this for a long time.  Dh is 13 years older than I am.  He's 67 now and has developed some health issues in the past year.   

My parents are both still alive, my mother is 78 and my dad is 87-ish, but my stepfather passed away about 5 years ago and my dad lost his second wife to breast cancer.   He has another wife now but she's quite a bit younger than he is.  

[GoVanGogh]

I have always assumed my DH would outlive me, as I have chronic autoimmune issues and young onset Parkinson’s. Alas. He was diagnosed with cancer earlier this year and developed life threatening complications after surgery to remove the tumor. He is doing well now, but it was really scary and eye opening. We have been married almost 40 years, married very young, and I have never had to be an adult by myself. Years ago, he traveled a lot for work so I had long stretches on my own, but that feels like a lifetime ago now and that was so different that being totally on my own. We are now thinking and talking about the prospect that I could outlive DH, what I would need to stay in the house, etc. Thankfully our home is one story and paid off. I could take in a renter, if needed. I have friends in this area, but no family and I wouldn’t want to move back north where I grew up. Timely topic. 

[GoVanGogh]

1 hour ago, Ananda said:

A topic for me!  I lost my husband unexpectedly May 2022.  I was completely blindsided.  He was 38 and as far as we knew in good health.  He wasn't like a fitness bro or anything.  But he was able to do a day at the zoo and bike to work and everything.  Anyway he died of congestive heart failure.  It was a week between him  being referred to a cardiologist by our GP (he was having trouble sleeping) to me taking him off life support. 

I am so so glad that I married young, we had a blissful 15 year marriage.  But the idea that it might have to sustain me for 50 or more years, terrifies me.  Because I married young, I had never adulted without him.  It is nice to know I can, I had always wondered.  

Then there is the issue of my kids.  My youngest was 6.  You aren't supposed to lose your daddy when you are 6.  I am learning that having a very involved daddy that loved you for six years, is better than having a bad dad or a dad that abandoned you.  So there is that.  

 

I am so very sorry for your loss. 

[BlsdMama]

Death is a shock, yet it happens to everyone. Terminal diagnosis is a shock yet it happens every day. 
 

Truth is that most of us prefer the blind optimism of believing we’ll live completely healthy lives until we’re 96 then passed peacefully in our sleep. It is a rare person who plans for a diagnosis at 40, rare crippling disease, and an unfortunate death before fifty. I’m not sure I’d want to be that person even if that’s my situation, kwim? We still talk about the future all the time as if I’ll be there which I’m sure some would question 🤔 but how do you say, “Ooh! It will be so fun to make cider with the grandkids!” vs. “When I’m gone and you’re lonely or remarried, you’ll sure enjoy that cider…”

 

 Living the present doesn’t mean denial it just means being optimistically present?

[Kimberly in IN]

What a timely topic. My husband died 7 months ago today. He left on a business trip and passed away in his hotel room. I also had always thought my husband would outlive me. He was a runner, did at least 3 marathons a year, plus some 13.2s, ate a disciplined, healthy diet, exercised in addition to running. In short, he appeared to be on a much healthier track than me. In fact he ran a half marathon 9 days before he died. But, he died of an undiagnosed heart condition.

I, of course, was so unprepared for his loss and life without him. Our youngest was a senior in high school.

I can't agree more with those who have expressed living in the present, enjoying each other, not sweating the little stuff.

And, of course, make sure you have wills, know where important papers are, and life insurance.

[Scarlett]

3 minutes ago, Kimberly in IN said:

What a timely topic. My husband died 7 months ago today. He left on a business trip and passed away in his hotel room. I also had always thought my husband would outlive me. He was a runner, did at least 3 marathons a year, plus some 13.2s, ate a disciplined, healthy diet, exercised in addition to running. In short, he appeared to be on a much healthier track than me. In fact he ran a half marathon 9 days before he died. But, he died of an undiagnosed heart condition.

I, of course, was so unprepared for his loss and life without him. Our youngest was a senior in high school.

I can't agree more with those who have expressed living in the present, enjoying each other, not sweating the little stuff.

And, of course, make sure you have wills, know where important papers are, and life insurance.

I am so sorry.  It is heartbreaking.  

[SKL]

Yes, the last time I checked, the average wife dies 1-2 years after her husband.

[Ananda]

39 minutes ago, Kimberly in IN said:

What a timely topic. My husband died 7 months ago today. He left on a business trip and passed away in his hotel room. I also had always thought my husband would outlive me. He was a runner, did at least 3 marathons a year, plus some 13.2s, ate a disciplined, healthy diet, exercised in addition to running. In short, he appeared to be on a much healthier track than me. In fact he ran a half marathon 9 days before he died. But, he died of an undiagnosed heart condition.

I, of course, was so unprepared for his loss and life without him. Our youngest was a senior in high school.

I can't agree more with those who have expressed living in the present, enjoying each other, not sweating the little stuff.

And, of course, make sure you have wills, know where important papers are, and life insurance.

I am sorry for your loss too.  What is it with undiagnosed heart conditions?  Yes I agree with enjoying life in the present.

[Ananda]

My big piece of advice is to have all the important conversations now.  We were a morbid couple, so we talked about under what conditions we would want to live or die.   We want to be organ donors, we want to be cremated, save money on the funeral etc.  It was so comforting to have those decisions already made.  I was able to have a simple funeral without regret. 

We also discussed all our thoughts on raising teens, even though we didn't have any yet.  So I can have a better idea what he would have wanted.

The other thing I would say.  Make sure you have a plan for all the online stuff.  My husband used a super secure password manager, and had not turned on the emergency feature (that would have allowed them to give me access when he died).  When we were first in the hospital, and I thought he would be fine, I cracked a joke about how if he died I would be locked out of everything since I didn't have the master password.  He gave it to me, (I can't stress enough how weird that is).  It was a joke, so I didn't write it down or anything, but I was able to remember it when I needed to.  I am so grateful for that in bad taste joke.  

[Heartstrings]

With both my parents and my in laws the hardest thing was that they both assumed the man would go first, but it was the woman.   Both men were completely shocked and completely unprepared.  Both said multiple times that they were suppose to first.  It struck me as odd both times. My in laws even had taken out insurance that was set up with that assumption.  
So even if men usually go first you never know what will happen in any individual case.  

Edited October 23, 2023 by Heartstrings

[Kassia]

50 minutes ago, Kimberly in IN said:

What a timely topic. My husband died 7 months ago today. He left on a business trip and passed away in his hotel room. I also had always thought my husband would outlive me. He was a runner, did at least 3 marathons a year, plus some 13.2s, ate a disciplined, healthy diet, exercised in addition to running. In short, he appeared to be on a much healthier track than me. In fact he ran a half marathon 9 days before he died. But, he died of an undiagnosed heart condition.

I, of course, was so unprepared for his loss and life without him. Our youngest was a senior in high school.

I can't agree more with those who have expressed living in the present, enjoying each other, not sweating the little stuff.

And, of course, make sure you have wills, know where important papers are, and life insurance.

I'm so sorry.  What a shock that must have been.

Ds1's godfather (DH's cousin) died suddenly at 35 from an undiagnosed heart condition.  He was the healthiest person we knew as far as being very strict with his diet and also exercised regularly.  He died right after a doctor's visit for a physical for a new job.  

I hope I go before DH because I'm ignorant about so much that he does (all the finances and most of the house stuff).  I know I could have my adult kids help me figure it all out, but it would just be easier for me to go first - he would do fine without me.  

[Jaybee]

My mil was a widow for about 9 months before she died. They were both in their 90s and in ill health by then. My own father died about 15 years ago, and my mom is still living and in her 90s. When he was very ill and a few days before his death, he told her sadly, "I wanted to be the one to take care of you."😪

Dh and I are in our 60s, and he is a few months older than I, but not enough to make any considerable difference. He is in better health, is a runner, etc. For some reason, I expect that I will be the one widowed, in spite of that. But I know there is no way of knowing. I do think about it a good bit. I would like to have things more planned out than we do, but it is complicated by the fact that most of our family is far away, and we would prefer to be buried there rather than here. If we both live to our planned after-retirement move, then it will be much easier to go ahead and finalize plans.

[gardenmom5]

I'm surprised she's surprised.

Men have shorter average life spans than women.  Men tend to be older than their wives.  yeah, basic math says women are more likely to be widows.
But my father was 45 when he died, and my fil was 54 when he died from cancer. (mil was 10 years younger than him, and died two weeks before her 94th BD). so I'm very aware of it.  I can think of two elementary school peers whose fathers died when they were children.
I know far more widows than widowers. Including a dear friend whose husband had a massive heart attack in his late 30s leaving her with three small children.  (the support she got from her family and his family is what family support is supposed to look like.)

Even though there is a significant age gap between me and dh, he's definitely healthier than am I. (He looks a lot younger than he is.)

I had a great aunt whose much older first husband was a widower, and left her a very comfortable lifestyle when he died six months later.  Her second husband was 16 years younger than her.  He died first.   He apparently thought he was going to be set up when she died. (she found so much after he died that he'd stashed away, bills for safe deposit boxes, etc.). 

[maize]

I've assumed for a couple of decades now that I would outlive dh. It isn't a guarantee of course, but given his health issues the odds are definitely in my favor.

Both his dad and paternal grandfather outlived their wives significantly though (his dad is still going strong 6 years after MIL passed away, and his grandfather outlived his grandmother by more than three decades!) so who knows.

[Shoeless]

Nm. I don't  have time to dig into the article right now. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Shoeless

[Brittany1116]

I have both a grandmother and a grandfather still living now in their late 80s. She has been a widow for over 25 years, never dated or remarried. The older she gets, the more she speaks of missing him. 

He was been a widower for 10, and after 2 years had a lady friend who was a widow. She recently passed. He really has a hard time being alone. 

My husband nearly refuses to speak of these types of things. My children and I say, in a lighthearted way, when I am old and alone, they will each have a place for me in their homes and alternate where I stay every 6 months. We have no contingencies if I go first.

[DawnM]

My mom died 3 years before my dad.   But she was also 4 years older than my dad.

My husband and I are the same age.   

I don't think it is fair to say that since it is likely to happen, we shouldn't be surprised by it.  Death is not something you can say how people should respond or handle.   I assume my husband will die first, but I will still be shocked and sad.   

 

[HS Mom in NC]

Yes, you have to seriously consider and plan for the possibility that either could die first regardless of age differences and health status, but the most casual observer can see men usually die before their wives. That's been the norm for generations.  My husband and I have been set up for either possibility since the start of our 30 year marriage and we expect I'll be widowed. 

Anyone woman who hasn't seriously thought through the likelihood of being widowed just isn't a long term thinker, which is kind of embarrassing considering that's what's supposed to separate adults from children (and why we only allow adults, not minors, to enter legal contracts.)  

It's weird that so many people in the US (I can't comment on other cultures because I've never lived in them) are completely unwilling to consider death at all or the lead up to it even as they're very old.  I've been through 2 generations of hands on eldercare and it's a soapbox for me now. Seriously, this dread fear of talking about your own decline and death is pathological and we have to stop enabling it-it's hurting everyone around you to not address it as thoroughly as possible before it happens.  Don't.be.that.person. It will affect other people-talk to those people about it and plan for minimizing the difficulty of the related fall out.

And for Christians it's even weirder.  Let me get this straight, you say you believe what the Bible says about things, and you think you have spiritual insight to both life and death and its related issues at least to some degree, but you can't think about or talk about the deaths of you and your spouse?  How is that even possible? This should be frequently covered territory. American churches are mess, folks.

Start talking about your and your spouse's deaths and declines with your spouse and kids, including thinking through various options that exist whether they're you're preferences or not. You might age in place at home, you might live with a child or grandchild, you might be at a facility of some type. You cannot completely control which it will be because so many different factors you can't control or even forsee will play into it. Things change-be prepared to change.  Any promise or plans your kids make now could be completely off the table due to no one's fault when the time comes even if you're so rich you can pay for different options.  That's life. (And death.) You're not 13 years old; refusing to talk about the possibilities won't decrease the likelihood of them happening. I must spend 30% of my time responding to new reports, articles, conversations people have about their adult lives, etc. thinking , "Am I the only adult in the room? This perpetually adolescent mindset (magical thinking) in America is absurd."

Not only are you and your spouse going to die, dear reader, you're both also likely to go through a years long decline in which you require plenty of hands on care by someone at least a generation younger than you if you choose regular preventive diagnostics and treatments that are standard practice these days. And it might happen even if you refuse them. So stack the deck in your favor for your preferences as much as you realistically can, but be psychologically prepared for whatever comes along. Reality doesn't care how you feel about.  Feel whatever feelings you have about reality and deal with reality in spite of those feelings.

[Pam in CT]

9 minutes ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Yes, you have to seriously consider and plan for the possibility that either could die first regardless of age differences and health status, but the most casual observer can see men usually die before their wives. That's been the norm for generations.  My husband and I have been set up for either possibility since the start of our 30 year marriage and we expect I'll be widowed. 

Anyone woman who hasn't seriously thought through the likelihood of being widowed just isn't a long term thinker, which is kind of embarrassing considering that's what's supposed to separate adults from children (and why we only allow adults, not minors, to enter legal contracts.)  

It's weird that so many people in the US (I can't comment on other cultures because I've never lived in them) are completely unwilling to consider death at all or the lead up to it even as they're very old.  I've been through 2 generations of hands on eldercare and it's a soapbox for me now. Seriously, this dread fear of talking about your own decline and death is pathological and we have to stop enabling it-it's hurting everyone around you to not address it as thoroughly as possible before it happens.  Don't.be.that.person. It will affect other people-talk to those people about it and plan for minimizing the difficulty of the related fall out.

And for Christians it's even weirder.  Let me get this straight, you say you believe what the Bible says about things, and you think you have spiritual insight to both life and death and its related issues at least to some degree, but you can't think about or talk about the deaths of you and your spouse?  How is that even possible? This should be frequently covered territory. American churches are mess, folks.

Start talking about your and your spouse's deaths and declines with your spouse and kids, including thinking through various options that exist whether they're you're preferences or not. You might age in place at home, you might live with a child or grandchild, you might be at a facility of some type. You cannot completely control which it will be because so many different factors you can't control or even forsee will play into it. Things change-be prepared to change.  Any promise or plans your kids make now could be completely off the table due to no one's fault when the time comes even if you're so rich you can pay for different options.  That's life. (And death.) You're not 13 years old; refusing to talk about the possibilities won't decrease the likelihood of them happening. I must spend 30% of my time responding to new reports, articles, conversations people have about their adult lives, etc. thinking , "Am I the only adult in the room? This perpetually adolescent mindset (magical thinking) in America is absurd."

Not only are you and your spouse going to die, dear reader, you're both also likely to go through a years long decline in which you require plenty of hands on care by someone at least a generation younger than you if you choose regular preventive diagnostics and treatments that are standard practice these days. And it might happen even if you refuse them. So stack the deck in your favor for your preferences as much as you realistically can, but be psychologically prepared for whatever comes along. Reality doesn't care how you feel about.  Feel whatever feelings you have about reality and deal with reality in spite of those feelings.

All true and also, simultaneously, all difficult.

And also, often one partner is better equipped emotionally to face/ talk about hard things than the other partner.

[kbutton]

15 hours ago, Ananda said:

What is it with undiagnosed heart conditions? 

We need to change guidelines for who gets echocardiograms in this country and when/with whom to follow up on something borderline—not all cardiologists do the same thing, so a referral to the wrong kind can be bad news. So many lives could be saved.

Much of what could be found with better screening is treatable in early stages. Other stuff like aneurysms (more common than acknowledged) are reliably treatable before they dissect (and more easily treated once dissected than they used to be).

Knowing family history is essential—anyone with a first degree relative who had a sudden death that is not explained by something non-cardiac should see a cardiologist and get screened. Insisting on a referral to a geneticist is also a sane suggestion—they will know if the follow-up should be one and done or periodic.

Stepping off my soapbox now.

[wintermom]

The likelihood of women outliving their spouse has been an observation of mine since I was young. Perhaps it's just because my extended family "fit the stats" more than others. I'm a little surprised that the women in the article seemed to not make this observation, certainly at an age when she's likely seen women friends become widows already. Maybe the statement was made as she was in shock and disbelief of her husband's passing. I don't know if she actually would have appreciated people telling as a young bride that one day there was a great probability that she would be a widow, rather than her husband being a widower. It's not like it's a 90% chance, depending on the region and age it's closer to 60%, while divorce can be up to 43%. As a politician, I'm guessing she was probably more likely to divorce than become a widow. Maybe she felt that she had it made, no divorce and plenty of time to enjoy senior years with her spouse. Whatever the sentiment, it's a shame that she lost her husband. I like the idea of living next door to a sister! That would be really nice.
 

[Laura Corin]

19 minutes ago, wintermom said:

The likelihood of women outliving their spouse has been an observation of mine since I was young. Perhaps it's just because my extended family "fit the stats" more than others. I'm a little surprised that the women in the article seemed to not make this observation, certainly at an age when she's likely seen women friends become widows already. Maybe the statement was made as she was in shock and disbelief of her husband's passing. I don't know if she actually would have appreciated people telling as a young bride that one day there was a great probability that she would be a widow, rather than her husband being a widower. It's not like it's a 90% chance, depending on the region and age it's closer to 60%, while divorce can be up to 43%. As a politician, I'm guessing she was probably more likely to divorce than become a widow. Maybe she felt that she had it made, no divorce and plenty of time to enjoy senior years with her spouse. Whatever the sentiment, it's a shame that she lost her husband. I like the idea of living next door to a sister! That would be really nice.
 

My interpretation was not that she didn't know the statistics  - she's very bright and diligent. It's more that she feels that we don't talk enough about the state of being a widow.

She has - in her 70s - thrown herself into an extremely high profile job; I'm sure she will excel. But she is still wondering what the whole state of widowhood will bring.

Edited October 23, 2023 by Laura Corin

[rebcoola]

17 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

With both my parents and my in laws the hardest thing was that they both assumed the man would go first, but it was the woman.   Both men were completely shocked and completely unprepared.  Both said multiple times that they were suppose to first.  It struck me as odd both times. My in laws even had taken out insurance that was set up with that assumption.  
So even if men usually go first you never know what will happen in any individual case.  

This my Dad has outlived what we expected vy 20+ years based on his family but it still never occured to menhe could outlive my mom until she had stroke like symptoms (just a uti).  It was like oh sh&t dad is not prepared to be alone, would he want to live here, etc

[callapidder]

I feel like this is something I've always subconsciously expected to be the case for me. I only ever knew my grandmothers (both grandfathers died before I was born). My mom was widowed at age 60 and lived 27.5 years as a widow (my dad died from cancer at age 66).

I'm now 50 and my husband is 51. I think I *expect* to be a widow at some point, but at the same time, my husband is in very good health and has great genetics. His parents -- both in their 70s -- are in very good health as well. Meanwhile, my parents both had cancer, and spread between the two of them, had heart disease, diabetes, glaucoma, kidney disease, liver disease, and thyroid issues. SO...I guess I also won't be surprised if I'm NOT a widow some day. 😉

Practically speaking, I try to take care of myself so I can be as healthy as possible, given the genetics I'm working with. And we are trying to be prepared for either one of us living longer than the other with our financial planning.

[frogger]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:59 PM, Ananda said:

A topic for me!  I lost my husband unexpectedly May 2022.  

 

I am so sorry. 

Edited October 23, 2023 by frogger

[WildflowerMom]

6 hours ago, HS Mom in NC said:

Yes, you have to seriously consider and plan for the possibility that either could die first regardless of age differences and health status, but the most casual observer can see men usually die before their wives. That's been the norm for generations.  My husband and I have been set up for either possibility since the start of our 30 year marriage and we expect I'll be widowed. 

Anyone woman who hasn't seriously thought through the likelihood of being widowed just isn't a long term thinker, which is kind of embarrassing considering that's what's supposed to separate adults from children (and why we only allow adults, not minors, to enter legal contracts.)  

It's weird that so many people in the US (I can't comment on other cultures because I've never lived in them) are completely unwilling to consider death at all or the lead up to it even as they're very old.  I've been through 2 generations of hands on eldercare and it's a soapbox for me now. Seriously, this dread fear of talking about your own decline and death is pathological and we have to stop enabling it-it's hurting everyone around you to not address it as thoroughly as possible before it happens.  Don't.be.that.person. It will affect other people-talk to those people about it and plan for minimizing the difficulty of the related fall out.

And for Christians it's even weirder.  Let me get this straight, you say you believe what the Bible says about things, and you think you have spiritual insight to both life and death and its related issues at least to some degree, but you can't think about or talk about the deaths of you and your spouse?  How is that even possible? This should be frequently covered territory. American churches are mess, folks.

Start talking about your and your spouse's deaths and declines with your spouse and kids, including thinking through various options that exist whether they're you're preferences or not. You might age in place at home, you might live with a child or grandchild, you might be at a facility of some type. You cannot completely control which it will be because so many different factors you can't control or even forsee will play into it. Things change-be prepared to change.  Any promise or plans your kids make now could be completely off the table due to no one's fault when the time comes even if you're so rich you can pay for different options.  That's life. (And death.) You're not 13 years old; refusing to talk about the possibilities won't decrease the likelihood of them happening. I must spend 30% of my time responding to new reports, articles, conversations people have about their adult lives, etc. thinking , "Am I the only adult in the room? This perpetually adolescent mindset (magical thinking) in America is absurd."

Not only are you and your spouse going to die, dear reader, you're both also likely to go through a years long decline in which you require plenty of hands on care by someone at least a generation younger than you if you choose regular preventive diagnostics and treatments that are standard practice these days. And it might happen even if you refuse them. So stack the deck in your favor for your preferences as much as you realistically can, but be psychologically prepared for whatever comes along. Reality doesn't care how you feel about.  Feel whatever feelings you have about reality and deal with reality in spite of those feelings.

This is one of the most condescending and ugly things I've read here in a long time.  You've got ladies here who are actually living this scenario right now and you really want to act high and mighty?  Really?