Teen jobs (updated)

[silver]

My 16yo has a job in retail. It's decent pay and during the summer was fine. A month ago they requested to have fewer hours and Tuesdays and Thursdays off to attend EC activities during the school year. They were refused Tuesday off ("I need someone to help with closing!"). Okay, whatever, as long as it's a short shift that starts later, it should work for now. But the request for Thursdays off seems to have been ignored, and that shift starts an hour into the two hour long activity time--which doesn't work. 

And now they've found out that the manager won't allow people to request time off in November and December. 

I get it. It's a retail store and that's their busy time. But this is a part time worker and a 16yo that will be going off to college soon, and they need time off to visit out of state family over Christmas break and Thanksgiving. Once kid goes off to college, who knows how often they'll get to see Grandma and out of state cousins. And, yes, they do want to take these trips over Thanksgiving and Christmas.

16yo doesn't need the job, they just have it to get spending money. I think the lack of accommodating the Tuesday/Thursday request and the inability to take even one weekend off in a two month period means this isn't going to be a job that works when the main EC (with 4-6 practices a week) is in season later in winter. 

What would you do? Would you somehow make the job work (even if that means either cancelling trips or leaving a teen alone for a 4 day weekend)? Encourage teen to put in notice that they need to quit before Thanksgiving? Encourage teen to find a different job?

 

 

Update here: 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by silver

[fairfarmhand]

This doesn’t sound like the right job for the right time. I’d advise teen to put in a 2 week notice.

[mommyoffive]

I would not have my teen work that job if they can't accommodate them.  Jobs are great for teens, but they also have their whole lives to work.  I want them to be able to participate in EC and visit family.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by mommyoffive

[Katy]

At that age I worked retail. I was told I had to not add any more hours or activities or I’d be fired. I worked 30 hours a week from Thanksgiving until New Year’s. There was no place for time off except for a Tuesday night college class and Fridays bc I had to be at Football games. 

I would assume if she needs time off around holidays she should quit now. 

[Acorn]

I would have my child quit. 

[wintermom]

This job doesn't sound like a good fit your your dd. She may have to quit if they choose not to accomodate her requests. That seems to be the way some businesses treat their young employees. It's good to recognize that and not have any false hopes that they'll provide the flexibility your dd wants.

[bolt.]

This doesn't sound like a great fit -- but the teen is really the expert here.

I'd begin the conversation by asking questions and listening/reflecting what they-themself see in the situation. I might add advice if I thought they were going badly wrong due to immaturity (ie if they said that they couldn't 'disappoint' the boss at work). In the end, I'd probably be comfortable with any decision that the teen made -- as long as they had thought it through and weren't yielding just to personal pressure. (Adding my own personal pressure doesn't help a kid learn to be a good decision maker in the long term.)

If I was of the opinion that the kid should quit the job, I'd consider myself responsible to replace at least some of the 'spending money' that they would be giving up if they quit because I told them they should.

[Storygirl]

There are other jobs out there for teens. I would advise them to give two weeks' notice.

[kirstenhill]

I'd advise the teen to look for a different job.  My teens have once in a while had to miss an activity b/c of work, but s job that won't accommodate a regular activity or a reasonable amount of family travel would be a no-go for us. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by kirstenhill

[Ausmumof3]

This stuff is frustrating. My DS employer asks him to commit weeks out but then sometimes decides he only needs three hours not six on the day. Flexibility should cut both ways. If you need commitment offer commitment. If you want flexibility offer flexibility. 

[ScoutTN]

I’d say quit with notice. No reason to stay with such an inflexible employer. 

[BusyMom5]

I'd have them put in their 2 week notice.  I do think there is value in teens working and encourage mine to work in the summer- but teem years are over so quick. They deserve to do their activity and spend time with family.

[catz]

I would have the kid quit without a thought.  I mean I'd do an appropriate 2 week notice.  But unless you NEED that kid working, I wouldn't consider that top priority for a 16 year old.   Maybe they can find something moe flexible.  Maybe waiting until after the holidays is a better idea if time is tight and travel is planned.  

If a 16+ was asking to accomodate to KEEP the job, I probably would work to do so.  INcluding leaving them behind for travel if needed.  

Edited September 6, 2023 by catz

[fraidycat]

This job/employer does not seem like a good fit in this season of life for the teen. I would encourage them to go ahead and give their notice so that the job does not interfere with their EC activity schedule. They've got decades to work for possibly crappy bosses with inflexible schedules, so if the job is not necessary, let them be a kid for a couple more years. 

[theelfqueen]

I would encourage them to quit. 

[Corraleno]

Agreeing with everyone else that this job is not going to work out and to just give notice.

I really don't understand why retail managers, who always seem to be desperate for employees, would rather force good employees to quit, and then have to start over training new employees (if they can even find people to hire), rather than try to create a schedule that works for everyone. And then they complain about the constant turnover and bitch about how "no one wants to work anymore," as if the real issue isn't a manager who demands total flexibility to schedule anyone whenever he wants, while allowing the employees zero flexibility in return.

 

[2squared]

My teens don’t work during the school year because their schedules don’t allow for regular work hours.

My teens work during the summer and they use that money for their year-round spending money, but they only have to fund social activities. If I wanted them to fund more, they would have to give up extracurriculars. We all have 24 hours in a day, and teens have to choose how to spend their hours too. I don’t know many (any?) teens who can pursue high level extracurriculars, achieve strong academic performance, and work regularly during the school year. 

[TechWife]

If the EC is the priority, then they need to turn in a 2 week notice.

You have entered a life stage where it could benefit your family to rethink future holiday plans. Your holidays may often have to change to be centered on your home as a base for family holiday celebrations. Your own kids won’t always be able to get holidays off and may prefer to be in your home for a holiday, even if they’ve been spending holidays elsewhere their entire lives. When they say they’re going “home,” they wont be thinking of grandma’s house, for example, they’ll be thinking of your house.

If you haven’t already, this might be a good year to open a conversation with your spouse, kids and extended family about how holidays may change out of necessity There are a lot of possibilities and you will all figure out what’s best, even when it’s not everyone’s preference. 

Edited September 6, 2023 by TechWife

[SKL]

I would encourage my teen to apply to other jobs that allow high school students to block days/times off for school activities and travel.

Failing that, I'd just have my teen call off those days/hours (assuming the teen considers the extracurriculars more important than the job).  If the employer really can't deal with it, then I guess that will be it.

 

[Carrie12345]

In my second-hand experience, this is how a majority of retail businesses are operating. My kids have had slightly better luck with local/family owned businesses.

It puts a big hole in the whole “these jobs are meant for kids” argument.

I agree with quitting, as long as 16yo is agreeable. I think these Zs and Alphas need to be empowered to stand up to this kind of bs well before getting into major career decisions or they’re going to get wrecked by employers.

[Wheres Toto]

My son's first job was with Spirit Halloween.  It was the perfect first job to make some spending money for the year.   They were fairly flexible with hours if you told them when hired, it only ran from late August to the first week of November so ended before any holidays, and was a great fit for a somewhat quirky kid.   They could wear costumes or their own clothes.  

[ScoutTN]

10 hours ago, Corraleno said:

Agreeing with everyone else that this job is not going to work out and to just give notice.

I really don't understand why retail managers, who always seem to be desperate for employees, would rather force good employees to quit, and then have to start over training new employees (if they can even find people to hire), rather than try to create a schedule that works for everyone. And then they complain about the constant turnover and bitch about how "no one wants to work anymore," as if the real issue isn't a manager who demands total flexibility to schedule anyone whenever he wants, while allowing the employees zero flexibility in return.

 

This!! So much. 

[Soror]

I agree with others that this doesn't seem like a good fit for your family. My teens work but only at places that will work with their school schedule and give them the hours that work for them.

But I also agree with what @TechWife said about the holidays. Unless the place they work at is closed on the holidays I would expect they will be working. Everyone wants off on the holidays but if businesses are open during the holidays they will have to work at least part of that time. If they are working retail that is their busiest time of year, so it is unlikely they will be ok with them taking off large amounts of time. My brother-in-law works in retail and is pretty far up the ladder. He still has to come in on Thanksgiving night every year and he's been there 30+ years. It is an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing. We worked holiday get-togethers around the kid's schedules.

[fairfarmhand]

8 hours ago, TechWife said:

If the EC is the priority, then they need to turn in a 2 week notice.

You have entered a life stage where it could benefit your family to rethink future holiday plans. Your holidays may often have to change to be centered on your home as a base for family holiday celebrations. Your own kids won’t always be able to get holidays off and may prefer to be in your home for a holiday, even if they’ve been spending holidays elsewhere their entire lives. When they say they’re going “home,” they wont be thinking of grandma’s house, for example, they’ll be thinking of your house.

If you haven’t already, this might be a good year to open a conversation with your spouse, kids and extended family about how holidays may change out of necessity There are a lot of possibilities and you will all figure out what’s best, even when it’s not everyone’s preference. 

 

22 minutes ago, Soror said:

I agree with others that this doesn't seem like a good fit for your family. My teens work but only at places that will work with their school schedule and give them the hours that work for them.

But I also agree with what @TechWife said about the holidays. Unless the place they work at is closed on the holidays I would expect they will be working. Everyone wants off on the holidays but if businesses are open during the holidays they will have to work at least part of that time. If they are working retail that is their busiest time of year, so it is unlikely they will be ok with them taking off large amounts of time. My brother-in-law works in retail and is pretty far up the ladder. He still has to come in on Thanksgiving night every year and he's been there 30+ years. It is an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing. We worked holiday get-togethers around the kid's schedules.

Yeah. This. 

Holidays definitely had to change when my kids started working. We no longer were gone for a week at a time, but instead took long weekends and 2 or 3 day trips. Especially at Thanksgiving and Christmas. It was easier for us to do longer trips at other times of the year. 

[Tenaj]

This thread makes me so thankful for my 18yo senior's employer - local ice cream place.  He can change his availability on their app.  Last week he had an unexpected soccer game crop up on a day he was supposed to work and he called to tell them - it was no problem.  They have a reputation for being accommodating for high schoolers and have won my son's allegiance.  He's planning to stay there next year as he starts college.

[Acadie]

10 minutes ago, Tenaj said:

This thread makes me so thankful for my 18yo senior's employer - local ice cream place.  He can change his availability on their app.  Last week he had an unexpected soccer game crop up on a day he was supposed to work and he called to tell them - it was no problem.  They have a reputation for being accommodating for high schoolers and have won my son's allegiance.  He's planning to stay there next year as he starts college.

Same!

Dd17 works at a Middle Eastern restaurant that makes Chipotle-style bowls. Her boss (the owner) really appreciates what a reliable worker she is and has been great about scheduling. Her 2 shifts a week are flexible as long as she lets her boss know the week ahead. In a pinch, coworkers will also cover for each other. 

If it's financially doable I'd place priority on extracurriculars and family time before teens launch their own lives, which makes family time much harder to coordinate. 

I also think talking through this dilemma gives you great opportunities for conversations with your teen about discerning personal priorities and seeking sustainable work-life balance, which are developmentally right on and will serve them well in adulthood. You could also help brainstorm other options for earning that fit better into their schedule. Whenever my teens/young adults have a dilemma my refrain is always, "You have options! What are you seeing as potential options at this point?" And then taking the conversation from there, asking more questions to help them explore and possibly suggesting additional options.

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

I agree with others that this doesn't seem like a good fit for your family. My teens work but only at places that will work with their school schedule and give them the hours that work for them.

But I also agree with what @TechWife said about the holidays. Unless the place they work at is closed on the holidays I would expect they will be working. Everyone wants off on the holidays but if businesses are open during the holidays they will have to work at least part of that time. If they are working retail that is their busiest time of year, so it is unlikely they will be ok with them taking off large amounts of time. My brother-in-law works in retail and is pretty far up the ladder. He still has to come in on Thanksgiving night every year and he's been there 30+ years. It is an all-hands-on-deck kind of thing. We worked holiday get-togethers around the kid's schedules.

My husband does not work retail but works with newborn data -- and babies are born year round and fairly indifferent to holidays. So while they get Thanksgiving/Christmas off -- they have to go in either Friday or Saturday of Thanksgiving week and one Saturday near Christmas as well to make sure the work gets done. You ask for time off for travel well ahead of time and they approve for X amount of people to be off so the work still gets done -- and prioritize people who did NOT take off a holiday time the year before.  So new employees can rarely get these holidays off.

 

[4kidlets4me]

I would have my kid quit.

But FYI all of these jobs are doing this and then complaining that nobody wants to work. My DD is in college and has lost 3 jobs to scheduling issues just this year. Even though she tells them during the interview process that she is in college and goes home for the holidays, classes will be at different times throughout the year etc. but when the time comes they all act surprised that she needs time off. I'm not sure what the point of lying to candidates is but she has no problem quitting jobs that won't be accommodating. 

[SKL]

Wouldn't there be some adults wanting additional hours around the holidays?  It seems this should not be that hard for retailers to figure out.

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, SKL said:

Wouldn't there be some adults wanting additional hours around the holidays?  It seems this should not be that hard for retailers to figure out.

They don’t seem interested in figuring it out.  I’d love some sort of study that explains it, other than managers just not knowing how and deciding not to bother figuring it out.  

[Corraleno]

1 hour ago, 4kidlets4me said:

My DD is in college and has lost 3 jobs to scheduling issues just this year. Even though she tells them during the interview process that she is in college and goes home for the holidays, classes will be at different times throughout the year etc. but when the time comes they all act surprised that she needs time off. I'm not sure what the point of lying to candidates is but she has no problem quitting jobs that won't be accommodating. 

This! Why purposely lie to new hires when you know they're just going to quit when they find out the truth???

When DD got a retail job at the mall, she went to a group interview and all 6 people in the interview were hired on the spot (which should have been a red flag). Five of the six were in HS or college and they were all told that the schedules they said they needed would not be a problem — and then they were constantly scheduled for times they said they couldn't work and/or were cut from shifts when they were available and wanted to work. Schedules for the next week were posted on Sunday night, and DD would often be scheduled for a shift when the manager knew she had class — and then the manager would tell her it was her responsibility to find someone to switch with her if she couldn't work a shift that she had explicitly said, before she was even hired, that she could not work. She would show up for a 6 hr shift, only to be sent home half an hour later because the manager had scheduled too many people, then she'd get a call at 7:30 PM telling her to be at the store by 8 because there no one else was available to close at 9. She'd end up with 5 hours total one week and then 30 the next, but the 30 hr week would be two 10-shifts and a bunch of little split shifts. All 5 of the other girls who were hired at the same time as DD had quit within a couple of months, and DD left after 5 months. That store is always understaffed and always has a "We're Hiring!" sign up.

[silver]

3 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

DD would often be scheduled for a shift when the manager knew she had class — and then the manager would tell her it was her responsibility to find someone to switch with her if she couldn't work a shift that she had explicitly said, before she was even hired, that she could not work. 

I really don't get this. I have a friend with a teen that runs into this kind of thing. That manager is constantly lecturing her teen workers on prioritizing work and such. Don't managers know that, for teens, their future (and thus school/extra curriculars) have higher priority than some extra cash in the moment? That if they want to keep teen workers, they need to be supportive of those future goals by giving them the schedule flexibility that it demands?

[Corraleno]

16 minutes ago, SKL said:

Wouldn't there be some adults wanting additional hours around the holidays?  It seems this should not be that hard for retailers to figure out.

6 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

They don’t seem interested in figuring it out.  I’d love some sort of study that explains it, other than managers just not knowing how and deciding not to bother figuring it out.  

I think most businesses could work out an arrangement so that people who really want or need time off at holidays could get it, especially if they paid extra for holiday hours as an incentive. We don't live anywhere near family and don't travel for holidays, so DD would jump at the chance to work holidays for time-&-a-half or double time pay. And for many businesses that would likely be cheaper in the long run than constantly having to interview, hire, and train replacements for all the workers who quit over the lack of flexibility.

[fairfarmhand]

22 minutes ago, silver said:

I really don't get this. I have a friend with a teen that runs into this kind of thing. That manager is constantly lecturing her teen workers on prioritizing work and such. Don't managers know that, for teens, their future (and thus school/extra curriculars) have higher priority than some extra cash in the moment? That if they want to keep teen workers, they need to be supportive of those future goals by giving them the schedule flexibility that it demands?

So far, all my kids have worked in first jobs with very supportive managers. Managers that had the attitude of "Get an education. You're gonna go further than Burger King! Go take that ACT! We'll find someone to work for you."

My kids proved themselves as reliable workers and after that first summer when they were NEVER late, always worked HARD and did very well in the workplace, behaving professionally, managers made it a high priority to work with my kids' schedules. 

We've been quite fortunate, I guess.

[SKL]

We're lucky my kids have a more accommodating boss as far as scheduling goes.  The job is about the worst-paying job out there, and there is a negative gossip vibe, but the flex hours thing really is true (given advance notice).  My kids say they want to apply to other jobs for more hours, better pay, more positivity.  We'll see how that goes.  It's all about life experience at this age IMO.

[teachermom2834]

I have three adult sons. The only one I had who prioritized the part time job over extracurriculars/family time/church stuff was the one who was not really motivated to apply himself to school and didn’t have quality ecs. For him his job was more useful and productive for the growing up things than anything else he would be doing in his spare time and he needed to apply himself/be responsible/learn about life etc. so for him the job(s) was really his priority after taking care of school. Any time not spent at work wouldn’t have been productive.

For my other two adult kids and my 15 yo who does not yet work, the other stuff they do is more useful to them and they learn a lot of the same lessons doing things they pretty much only get the freedom to do as teens. For them, I would not let them prioritize a job over academic pursuits/quality extracurriculars/ productive social and family interactions etc. I am all for teens working, so they could if it worked around those things but not if it prevented the other quality teen activities. 
 

My oldest never worked until he turned 18 and graduated from high school. It worried me because I was a big worker as a teen. But his first job the day after graduation was in an Amazon warehouse (hard job!) and he did fine and he is a successful young professional now. My third would have not worked in high school except covid shut all his activities down so he did take a job as an activity but if not for covid his extras would have been more valuable. My 15 yo dd wants a job but I am discouraging it because she has so many great academic and service things already going that I would hate to see compromised. It would absolutely have to be something that flexed to her life.

But that one kid of mine- yeah he worked all the time and it was his priority. But I would have preferred he be more into school and other stuff. It would have been more beneficial for him. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Let your teen quit.

We see this dynamic locally also. I believe many employers purposefully are understaffing and being inflexible because it saves salary dollars in the short term while providing an allowable social cover (“no one wants to work/we are short staffed”) for providing poor service.

It’s not hitting their bottom line/personal compensation (bonus) structure enough for them to change the dynamic.

[pitterpatter]

I only have one child and have no desire for her to get a job. It stresses me out just thinking about how it would restrict family life on the weekends, holidays, etc. We have two years left with her. Seems like a waste of that time to have her unavailable for our joy and entertainment. (And hopefully, hers.) Lol.

I would prefer her having a super flexible volunteer job. Or, a real-ish job where she was superfluous, but the latter doesn't seem to be much available these days.

[alisoncooks]

16 hours ago, pitterpatter said:

I only have one child and have no desire for her to get a job. It stresses me out just thinking about how it would restrict family life on the weekends, holidays, etc. We have two years left with her. Seems like a waste of that time to have her unavailable for our joy and entertainment. (And hopefully, hers.) Lol.

I would prefer her having a super flexible volunteer job. Or, a real-ish job where she was superfluous, but the latter doesn't seem to be much available these days.

This is where we are. My senior has wanted a job for a few years, but she’s also not willing to give up summer camp or Labor Day weekend family camping trip or October trip to the mountains…  

[Miss Tick]

Clearly some people work for lovely, flexible managers, but I wonder if many people in managerial positions in retail don't have the executive function skills or people skills or planning skills to see that they would have smoother operations with better scheduling. Perhaps this is simply the Peter Principle in action at a low level job.

[Heartstrings]

3 minutes ago, Miss Tick said:

Clearly some people work for lovely, flexible managers, but I wonder if many people in managerial positions in retail don't have the executive function skills or people skills or planning skills to see that they would have smoother operations with better scheduling. Perhaps this is simply the Peter Principle in action at a low level job.

This is probably accurate.  Maybe we can  Chat GPT to help them?   Make good use of this AI.  

[Miss Tick]

4 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

This is probably accurate.  Maybe we can  Chat GPT to help them?   Make good use of this AI.  

Or have them hire one of these lovely teenagers specifically to do the scheduling job!

[HomeAgain]

I think the teen should quit.  But - I also think the teen should be so extremely clear in requests and restating subsequent action that the manager feels like an idiot:

"I requested Tuesdays and Thursdays off because I am a student.  You refused because you rely on a teen student on Tuesdays to close the place.  You ignored my request for Thursdays."
"I asked for one weekend off in a two month span.  You refused."
"You do not understand that this job is a learning experience and that there are other priorities I must balance.  Therefore, here is my two-week notice."

 

 

[Emba]

I would definitely encourage/not discourage my teen from quitting.  But it might be worth the teen first trying to have a frank conversation with the manager about the lack of responsiveness to scheduling requests, saying basically what HomeAgain suggested above, but also “If you are willing to accommodate my requests I can stay, but if not, I will be handing in my notice.”  
 

There’s chance that the boss will say, “well, if you can’t work the hours we’ve already asked for, we don’t need you “. But maybe they will realize the benefits of keeps the teen and be more accommodating, which seems like a win-win. It could be worth a shot, and definitely good practice for the teen in advocating for what they want and need.

[silver]

Well good news. Teen talked to manager again and manager moved next Thursday's  shift and promised to stop scheduling Tue/Thu. We'll see how that goes. Manager also claimed that Thanksgiving weekend should be okay to have off. So, if scheduling goes okay the next few weeks, teen will then have to see if going to one shift a week during peek EC time will be okay. 

[wintermom]

Thanks for the update! It's really nice to see your dd communicating well with her manager, and the manager providing flexibility. Hopefully things will improve going forward.

It's a really great learning opportunity for youth to begin managing how to balance their academics, activities and work. They'll be doing this for many years to come. 

[Green Bean]

Quit in a heartbeat. teens need time for EC and school. A job just takes away from that time.

[CynthiaWalker]

On 9/6/2023 at 5:35 AM, silver said:

My 16yo has a job in retail. It's decent pay and during the summer was fine. A month ago they requested to have fewer hours and Tuesdays and Thursdays off to attend EC activities during the school year. They were refused Tuesday off ("I need someone to help with closing!"). Okay, whatever, as long as it's a short shift that starts later, it should work for now. But the request for Thursdays off seems to have been ignored, and that shift starts an hour into the two hour long activity time--which doesn't work. 

And now they've found out that the manager won't allow people to request time off in November and December. 

I get it. It's a retail store and that's their busy time. But this is a part time worker and a 16yo that will be going off to college soon, and they need time off to visit out of state family over Christmas break and Thanksgiving. Once kid goes off to college, who knows how often they'll get to see Grandma and out of state cousins. And, yes, they do want to take these trips over Thanksgiving and Christmas.

16yo doesn't need the job, they just have it to get spending money. I think the lack of accommodating the Tuesday/Thursday request and the inability to take even one weekend off in a two month period means this isn't going to be a job that works when the main EC (with 4-6 practices a week) is in season later in winter. 

What would you do? Would you somehow make the job work (even if that means either cancelling trips or leaving a teen alone for a 4 day weekend)? Encourage teen to put in notice that they need to quit before Thanksgiving? Encourage teen to find a different job?

 

 

Update here: 

 

You know in India, it is illegal to do a job if you are a teenager.

Edit: Recently they caught a lot of teens and owners of those work got caught for giving them the job.

Edited November 16, 2023 by CynthiaWalker