Duggar found GUILTY

[MercyA]

Josh Duggar has been found guilty on both counts, receiving and possessing CSA material. 

He is being detained in custody and the judge said sentencing may take up to four months.

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/4174486/josh-duggar-trial-live-updates-child-pornography-arrest-verdict/

Edited December 9, 2021 by MercyA

[fraidycat]

Thank goodness! I hope he gets the maximum sentence.

[Pam in CT]

Anna now has the gift of time.

 

May she find the strength to use it.  And go from there.

[Katy]

Yes!!!!!!

[Cordelia]

Praise God.

[AbcdeDooDah]

I just watched the press conference and he will be sentenced on one count, receiving. Prosecutor Roberts said he cannot be convicted of both. The long sentence we how for might not come.😓https://youtu.be/GY-gps3Uxcs

Edited December 9, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Pawz4me]

6 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I just watched the press conference and he will be sentenced on one count, receiving. Prosecutor Roberts said he cannot be convicted of both. The long sentence we how for might not come.😓https://youtu.be/GY-gps3Uxcs

I have no patience for watching videos, but that makes no sense. He's just been convicted of both receiving and possession.

[DreamerGirl]

YES !!! 

Hopefully it is a long sentence and the wife who had to do a perp walk each day clinging to the monster to be "supportive" in order to have basic necessities for her and her children can finally break free.

 

 

[Katy]

There are also sentence multipliers in effect due to the age of the victims and Josh’s prior history that the judge called “a fact.” The Judge apparently said sentencing would take up to 4 months.  My guess as a foster parent is that means they’re going to have the children psychologically and forensically examined first, and The judge is going to spend a great deal of time researching sentencing multipliers to see if it can count towards sentencing despite not being prosecuted. 

Neither Anna or the Duggars will be able to prevent the kids from being interviewed now, and they will not be in the room to interfere or intimidate the kids. 

[Catwoman]

Thank goodness! I am so glad he was convicted!!!

Have there been any reports on Anna’s reaction when the verdict was read?

[AbcdeDooDah]

7 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

I have no patience for watching videos, but that makes no sense. He's just been convicted of both receiving and possession.

Roberts said possession was a lesser-included charge. They overcharge to get something. 

I hope the judge uses his discretion wisely, looking at the totality of the circumstances / his own young children and gives him the max

[AbcdeDooDah]

1 minute ago, Katy said:

There are also sentence multipliers in effect due to the age of the victims and Josh’s prior history that the judge called “a fact.” The Judge apparently said sentencing would take up to 4 months.  My guess as a foster parent is that means they’re going to have the children psychologically and forensically examined first, and The judge is going to spend a great deal of time researching sentencing multipliers to see if it can count towards sentencing despite not being prosecuted. 

Neither Anna or the Duggars will be able to prevent the kids from being interviewed now, and they will not be in the room to interfere or intimidate the kids. 

Yes, I hope these all aggravate the sentence. 

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, Katy said:

My guess as a foster parent is that means they’re going to have the children psychologically and forensically examined first

I'll just ask, and I know I don't want to know/believe the answer. Is it actually suspected that he would have touched/harmed his own children?

[Catwoman]

Just now, PeterPan said:

I'll just ask, and I know I don't want to know/believe the answer. Is it actually suspected that he would have touched/harmed his own children?

How could it NOT be suspected? He molested his own sisters…

[Guest]

It’s not like me to revel in convictions, but thank the gods of justice! I hope he gets put away for ages. And I definitely think the children need evaluation. 

[Laurie]

Will he be held in a more isolated area of the jail for his protection?  I hope so, but not because I care what happens to him.  I'm worried that he'll start some fake Bible study/prison ministry and the other men will be indoctrinated.    

[Dmmetler]

Between this and the FDA booster approval for 16/17, It actually feels like a good day. 

[Annie G]

So very disappointed that he’ll only be sentenced on the one count.   Anyone know if there is a minimum sentence on that charge? Was very hopeful that he would be in jail at least until Madyson is older than his sick and twisted target age for victims.  Not hopeful now. 

[ktgrok]

Thank you for posting! I'd been following closely until the last 24 hours - working like mad to get the old house ready to sell as showings started today. I was over there until 10pm and back at 6am and hadn't had a chance to check on things. 

I'm SO relieved, and I hope his kids and all his nieces and nephews are evaluated for abuse - hard to believe he wouldn't have been abusing them given his past abuse of his sisters and his current known interest CSA. Ugh. I hate the whole situation, but am relieved he is locked up. 

Worst thing is that at the time it came out - the abuse of his sisters - Jim Bob said he talked to his church about it and found out it was a really common thing. Which is terrifying - cause no, that is NOT common for most situations. If that cult has an issue with incest and sexual assault...ugh. 

[ktgrok]

16 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I'll just ask, and I know I don't want to know/believe the answer. Is it actually suspected that he would have touched/harmed his own children?

He's a known abuser - he abused his sisters when he was a teenager. One was only 4 or 5 years old. The abuse continued for several years until more safeguards were put in place. 

Given we know he abused children for years and only stopped (that we know of) when he was kept away from them, and knowing that he continues to be a pedophile who finds pleasure in the assault of children, and given that he is constantly surrounded with tons of small children...it would be beyond negligent not to investigate that, and get those kids help if they were. Help that his sisters never got. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, MercyA said:

Josh Duggar has been found guilty on both counts, receiving and possessing CSA material. 

He is being detained and the judge said sentencing may take four months.

https://www.the-sun.com/entertainment/4174486/josh-duggar-trial-live-updates-child-pornography-arrest-verdict/

I hope they keep him under lock and key until sentencing.  He needs to never be free.

I know 40 years is the max (20 years for each of two charges) - but that just isn't long enough for him.

[Carol in Cal.]

Good.

[gardenmom5]

 

45 minutes ago, Katy said:

There are also sentence multipliers in effect due to the age of the victims and Josh’s prior history that the judge called “a fact.” The Judge apparently said sentencing would take up to 4 months.  My guess as a foster parent is that means they’re going to have the children psychologically and forensically examined first, and The judge is going to spend a great deal of time researching sentencing multipliers to see if it can count towards sentencing despite not being prosecuted. 

Neither Anna or the Duggars will be able to prevent the kids from being interviewed now, and they will not be in the room to interfere or intimidate the kids. 

Do not underestimate the ability for a psychological abuser to "control and intimidate" their victim even if they're not in the room  - because they mentally and emotionally program their victims.

Pavlov was an amateur 

Edited December 9, 2021 by gardenmom5

[lulalu]

Thank God. I hope his wife and kids can recover from this over the years. I hope they stay out of the spotlight so they can heal and grow up as close to normal as they can. My heart breaks for his kids, nieces, and nephews. Who knows what has happened behind closed doors. 

[AbcdeDooDah]

21 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

 

Worst thing is that at the time it came out - the abuse of his sisters - Jim Bob said he talked to his church about it and found out it was a really common thing. Which is terrifying - cause no, that is NOT common for most situations. If that cult has an issue with incest and sexual assault...ugh. 

I mean, there’s a section devoted to this subject in the Pearl’s book. That says a lot. 🤢

[WildflowerMom]

23 minutes ago, AbcdeDooDah said:

I mean, there’s a section devoted to this subject in the Pearl’s book. That says a lot. 🤢

Well, that’s disgusting.  I’m not surprised though.  They harp on the sexualization of females from the second they are born.  No wonder the boys in that cult are hyper-sexualized.    Their freak parents made them that way. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by WildflowerMom
Grammar. Always grammar.

[cbollin]

59 minutes ago, Annie G said:

So very disappointed that he’ll only be sentenced on the one count.   Anyone know if there is a minimum sentence on that charge? Was very hopeful that he would be in jail at least until Madyson is older than his sick and twisted target age for victims.  Not hopeful now. 

I was hopeful of that same idea that youngest would be much much much older when he gets out (say 20).  related to amount of time and age of the children....

One thing in the back of my mind in how it will all play out is if any of his children are still homeschool age when he's out. There's laws in Arkansas about S offenders can't be in the household if you homeschool unless given a waiver (or something like that. I'm not sure the exact wording).  guess we'll find out in many years and counting

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

There are also sentence multipliers in effect due to the age of the victims and Josh’s prior history that the judge called “a fact.” The Judge apparently said sentencing would take up to 4 months.  My guess as a foster parent is that means they’re going to have the children psychologically and forensically examined first, and The judge is going to spend a great deal of time researching sentencing multipliers to see if it can count towards sentencing despite not being prosecuted. 

Neither Anna or the Duggars will be able to prevent the kids from being interviewed now, and they will not be in the room to interfere or intimidate the kids. 

Please pray for the children through this whole process. They may not even know what is going on. If they are interviewed & go through a forensic exam, it will be very difficult for them, whether or not they were abused by their father. It is an incredibly invasive exam for a child & depending on how well it is handled, could turn out to be very traumatic. Also, pray this happens sooner rather than later in order to minimize the influence of others as much as possible. 

[Corraleno]

I'm confused why they only charged him with a single count each of receiving and possessing — especially if he can only be sentenced on one of those counts and not both. I looked up the details of the charges against the pedophile state trooper (Joseph Hutchens) that Jim Bob originally took Josh to, and he was charged with 8 counts of possession for having hundreds of photos downloaded over several days. He took a plea deal and was sentenced to 5 years on one count plus an additional 5 years suspended on each of the other counts.  He only served 3 years of the 5 year sentence, but less than two years after he was released he was arrested again, charged with 4 counts, and was sentenced to 56 years. Since Josh also downloaded multiple files and videos on separate days, I don't understand why there weren't multiple charges for possession, similar to Hutchens' case?

[Terabith]

Has he been remanded to custody or is he out on bail until sentencing?

[freesia]

Just now, Corraleno said:

I'm confused why they only charged him with a single count each of receiving and possessing — especially if he can only be sentenced on one of those counts and not both. I looked up the details of the charges against the pedophile state trooper (Joseph Hutchens) that Jim Bob originally took Josh to, and he was charged with 8 counts of possession for having hundreds of photos downloaded over several days. He took a plea deal and was sentenced to 5 years on one count plus an additional 5 years suspended on each of the other counts.  He only served 3 years of the 5 year sentence, but less than two years after he was released he was arrested again, charged with 4 counts, and was sentenced to 56 years. Since Josh also downloaded multiple files and videos on separate days, I don't understand why there weren't multiple charges for possession, similar to Hutchens' case?

It might have to do with the fact they had the best evidence for him being there to receive the file that they charged him with.

[freesia]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Has he been remanded to custody or is he out on bail until sentencing?

Remanded to custody.

[Corraleno]

1 minute ago, Terabith said:

Has he been remanded to custody or is he out on bail until sentencing?

Immediately taken into custody. KNWA Reporter CC McCandless said he was led away in handcuffs with tears in his eyes, and told Anna "I love  you."

[WildflowerMom]

Good riddance. 

[MercyA]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

Thank goodness! I am so glad he was convicted!!!

Have there been any reports on Anna’s reaction when the verdict was read?

The Sun reported that she was "completely stoic." Jim Bob came up and hugged her after the verdict and Josh told her he loved her as he was cuffed and led out. She left with Jim Bob and one of Josh's brothers and his wife.

ETA: The Sun has photos of her leaving the courtroom here (scroll down) and she does indeed look stoic. She is fiddling with her wedding ring in one photo--could just be nervousness. 😞 

Edited December 9, 2021 by MercyA

[Corraleno]

5 minutes ago, freesia said:

It might have to do with the fact they had the best evidence for him being there to receive the file that they charged him with.

One thing that really stood out to me about this trial is the incredible number of man-hours that went into this investigation and prosecution just to get a conviction on one count of possession. There's just no way that either the state or federal government can afford to invest that much time, energy, and money in every CSAM case, which explains why so many are allowed to take a plea deal and get very little jail time. The material Joseph Hutchens downloaded was nearly as bad as what Josh had, he had a LOT more of it, he was an active participant in online pedophile groups, and he had taken and uploaded photos of a young relative. And he only served 3 years for all of that, before being released to continue victimizing children. The lawyers who are representing the parents of the Oxford shooter specialize in sex crimes and brag about getting plea deals for pedophiles and rapists with little to no jail time and no registration as a sex offender. It's beyond depressing how little punishment there is for pedophiles.

[itsheresomewhere]

Cartwheels here.

 

Now may this bring JB’s run for office to a permanent close.  

[AbcdeDooDah]

Here is an opinion on what sentencing might look like. There is an unofficial "trial penalty" for not taking a plea.

 

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdjkbPy1/

Edited December 9, 2021 by AbcdeDooDah

[Spryte]

39 minutes ago, WildflowerMom said:

Good riddance. 

This.

[PaxEtLux]

 

Feel like TLC made millions exploiting this cult, and if they had any decency, they would quietly provide sufficient financial support for Anna and the kids so they can live independently, away from the whole family, without any need for publicity or TV shows or books or whatever. 

[TravelingChris]

I started homeschooling 1995 and graduated my youngest in 2015. I was given the Pearl book but thought ut was nuts.  There were a  lot of people pushing the Babywise book anx methods.  I thought it was overly rigid as I also did with some of the attatchment literature too.  As well as the gigantic push for breastfeeding which was unable to do due to my health and being a military spouse with a dh who was often gone.

In late 90's to early 2000's, I knew q family that both the mom and three daughters dressed in ling dresses or skirts because they were in the same homeschooling group w me.  They attended a  regular denomination church where no one else dressed that way.  They also helped w a completely normal VBS like one from Lifeway or onr of the mainstream sources where nothing like the Gothard or Pearl kind of garbage was in any of it.  Ì also believe that in our co-op,  the mom either taught or assisted in teaching Shakespeare to some of the teens. I did visit her house super of a mom 's night event snd that is where I saw thr Gothard cult little books for homeschooling.  I had already heard about Gothard maybe first on this board or maybe there was an article in something. But while they dressed differently, and had those books, their lives didn't correlate with what others were talking zbout re: Gotharised people. 

Didn't meet znyone ékse like that until we moved to Florida where I think maybe the GS leader had been in that cult ir solething simikar He husband divorced her w no notice snd her life changed drastically since she had custody of her 5 or 6 kids and very little CS.  Plus let a womsn who tried to give me s Pearl book at h9meschool archery.  I never met snyone else who was z Gothard or Pearl follower aftet 06 or 07.

I am so happy Josh was convicted.  I hope he getsa very long sentence.

 .  

[busymama7]

I, of course, am so relieved that he was found guilty.   But I feel sick to my stomach for Anna and their kids. Seeing her photos leaving the courthouse just made me so sad.  I really think she didn't believe it and he told her it wasn't true etc.  So she must be so lost trying to figure out her life moving forward.  I believe she was very sheltered and naive but I sure hope she wakes up soon and protects those kids.  

[prairiewindmomma]

33 minutes ago, MercyA said:

The Sun reported that she was "completely stoic." Jim Bob came up and hugged her after the verdict and Josh told her he loved her as he was cuffed and led out. She left with Jim Bob and one of Josh's brothers and his wife.

ETA: The Sun has photos of her leaving the courtroom here (scroll down) and she does indeed look stoic. She is fiddling with her wedding ring in one photo--could just be nervousness. 😞 

I've been watching the photos of her.  This past week, she always had the reflecting gaze at Josh except when navigating steps, when she looks down.  Her photos on the way out show her hands clasped with focus on the wedding band. I think she's absolutely been coached as to how she should appear in public.

[AbcdeDooDah]

Just now, busymama7 said:

I, of course, am so relieved that he was found guilty.   But I feel sick to my stomach for Anna and their kids. Seeing her photos leaving the courthouse just made me so sad.  I really think she didn't believe it and he told her it wasn't true etc.  So she must be so lost trying to figure out her life moving forward.  I believe she was very sheltered and naive but I sure hope she wakes up soon and protects those kids.  

I hope it really sunk in when she saw those texts to her saying he was stuck at work the night he downloaded some. 

[gardenmom5]

51 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

Immediately taken into custody. KNWA Reporter CC McCandless said he was led away in handcuffs with tears in his eyes, and told Anna "I love  you."

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by gardenmom5

[QueenCat]

Best news I've heard all day!

[HS Mom in NC]

I hope she sees through the wall of crazy she's been trapped behind, but I suspect there has been a lot of "martyr" talk in her circles about the government persecuting/framing Josh because he's a Christian and he'll have to fight this all the way through the appeals process.  If the appeals process fails I assume there's the, "God can use Josh's unfair situation to minister to others in prison like Joseph in the Old Testament."  She strikes me as a very complaint type, so questioning any of this is going to be contrary to all of her instincts, upbringing, and lifestyle. Suffering for Jesus is something I worry she's going to dive deep into when Jesus doesn't want her suffer at all on this-He was very specific about allowing for divorce when a spouse is unfaithful.

I have no problem being very glad about his conviction.  He had been extended all kinds of forgiveness and grace (which I don't think were appropriate) and didn't choose to seek licensed help to take responsibility for it.  I assume licensed help would've focused on convincing him he needed to build his life in a way that avoided temptation by not being around kids among other things. Just think if he had as a young adult.  He could've avoided getting married and having children in his home. Maybe he could've created accountability with an independent,  highly tech skilled person to scour his computer at random regularly looking for things like partitions. I don't know what all is possible for real accountability and attempts at safeguards, but he never legitimately allowed himself to be held to account for years and years.

[Corraleno]

So after poking around a bit, I found the Federal Sentencing Guidelines for CSAM cases. The guidelines that assign "points" to certain mitigating or aggravating factors specific to CSAM cases are listed here, and the chart that shows the general sentence range for each level of total points is here. 

As far as I can tell from reading the Guidelines and the relevant statutes, Josh's base level is 22. (It's possible that the base level is 18, but my impression is that 18 is more for possession while he was convicted of receiving.) So here's how the points would add up: 

Base level = 22
Limited to receipt, not distribution = -2
Minor under 12 = +2
Violent or sadistic imagery = +4
Use of computer for transmission or receipt = +2
Number of images = at least +2, more likely +3
“Pattern of activity involving the sexual abuse or exploitation of a minor” = + 5
      (Note: "pattern of activity" does NOT require conviction, see below*)

If the judge were to include all of those factors, that adds up to a Level 35 or 36, and the sentencing guidelines for a first offense at that level would be 168 months (minimum for Level 35) up to 235 months (maximum for level 36), which works out to between 14 & 19.5 years. I hope the fact that the judge allowed testimony about Josh's abuse of his sisters means he will also be willing to consider this "pattern of abuse" in sentencing, because the minimum for a Level 30 offense is only 8 years, vs 14 years for Level 35. 

 

* Quotes from the Sentencing Guidelines, below, make it clear that the judge can consider the pattern of behavior even if there was no conviction for sexual abuse: 

“Pattern of activity involving the sexual abuse or exploitation of a minor” means any combination of two or more separate instances of the sexual abuse or sexual exploitation of a minor by the defendant, whether or not the abuse or exploitation (A) occurred during the course of the offense; (B) involved the same minor; or (C) resulted in a conviction for such conduct.

Upward Departure Provision. If the defendant engaged in the sexual abuse or exploitation of a minor at any time (whether or not such abuse or exploitation occurred during the course of the offense or resulted in a conviction for such conduct) and subsection (b)(5) does not apply, an upward departure may be warranted. In addition, an upward departure may be warranted if the defendant received an enhancement under subsection (b)(5) but that enhancement does not adequately reflect the seriousness of the sexual abuse or exploitation involved.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Corraleno

[Lisa]

I'm glad he was found guilty, but don't understand why he can only be charged with one account. What will Anna do now? Will she now be under JB's strict thumb? Poor woman!

[Faith-manor]

I had quite the white knuckle drive today, and just got into the hotel and tuned in. Soooo relieved to see this. I am hoping Corraleno is right about the sentencing. At least at 14, Maddyson would be beyond the age he seems to be attracted to, and that is such a long time, Anna might just decide to extricate herself from JimBob.

Here's hoping this utterly tanks JB's chances of being elected!

Nap time, I left at 5 am, was pretty on edge when I made it. I should try to stay awake, but my body is just spent. I am going to do an hour with an alarm, and then see if I can get up and do some yoga in the room.