Experience with restraining order? *update pg. 2*

[itsheresomewhere]

We had a neighbor who acted this way to everyone ( thank goodness he wasn’t my next door neighbor).  Most were afraid to stand up to him.  He was well known to call the police on anything including his neighbors having dinner on their deck.  When walking my dog and my child was running along beside me in the road, he went into one of his fits about don’t let your dog in my yard or your kid. I apparently looked him squarely in the eye and asked if he was done  with his tantrum.  He stuttered and went back inside his house.  After that he was polite to my kids and me and no one else.  Our neighbor saw this and told me he never had anyone say something to him that made him think.  Everyone either was afraid to say something or just had a shouting match. 

Don’t be afraid.  Stand up for yourself and the kids.  Maybe look into a self defense class to help you build up confidence.

Edited October 19, 2021 by itsheresomewhere

[Catwoman]

1 minute ago, Spryte said:

I hope you don’t feel ganged up on.

Your neighbor sounds like a complete jerk, but he’s probably genuinely petrified of dogs. That can be a serious fear. 
 

If you do get a camera, get the best quality you can, so you can see and hear more details. Our camera caught an altercation between neighbor teens last summer, in the cul de sac, and it was very helpful to their parents in sorting out what happened.

I hope she doesn't feel ganged up on, too!

I know I'm being kind of hard on her, but I mostly just want to her to take a deep breath and give herself some time to calm down before she makes any decisions about her dog, because I think once a little time has passed, she will realize that while this was upsetting for sure, it's not as bad as she is worrying that it is, and that her neighbor probably got so scared of the dog that he started yelling -- and to remember that this is not a regular occurrence with the guy. For all Calizzy knows, he might even be feeling pretty embarrassed about it by now.

[Innisfree]

30 minutes ago, Carolina Wren said:

A restraining order isn't going to help this situation, and you should expect a ticked-off response if your dog is on someone else's property (even though this person's reactio was wildly, over-the-top rude, which I suspect means he's terrified of dogs). You need to either keep the dog in your own yard or move, or he may do something like call animal control and ask them to seize your dog if it happens again, even if he doesn't yell, etc.

Sorry.

I'm completely Team Dog, but I agree with this, including the suspicion that the guy has a dog phobia.

Someone above mentioned putting a gate inside the house, to keep the dog from having access to the door. I think this is a good idea, and one you can implement quickly. Amazon or Chewy can get a gate to you in a day or two.

Longer term, a different electric fence might be more effective, and add another layer of protection.

Lots of layers of protection, including...

I'd like to encourage you to get seriously involved in dog training. Aussies need a lot of exercise, but they are so smart and trainable. Is there an AKC training club within reach? Ours has fantastic classes in obedience, agility, rally, and other dog sports. We see Aussies there every week excelling at those activities. Older kids are welcomed and encouraged, if you have one who would like to get involved. You can train your dog to come when he is called, instead of running in circles around a terrified neighbor. A dog who's getting plenty of exercise and brain activity will be easier to keep under control, as well as having the training to respond appropriately when you call.

[TechWife]

Don’t get rid of the dog.

If he comes on your property, tell him, without going outside, to leave. If he doesn’t, call the police with a trespassing complaint. 
 

This man may have issues with dogs, children, neighbors, be mentally unstable, or all of the above. None of that is an excuse. That doesn’t mean you let him bully you and your children. Absent continual threats of physical and/or physical abuse, do not give in. Ignore him. Do not verbally respond except to tell him to leave your property. Find out the laws Re:verbal harassment, if there are any. Then you have that info in your back pocket. 
 

Consider taking to someone to figure out why you had such a strong reaction. For me, personally, that may have triggered a response from me due to past trauma. If you figure it out, you can begin to learn skills to help you manage it. 

[Bootsie]

I am sorry that you are dealing with a difficult neighbor.  We have recently had a difficult neighbor who came screaming all types of profanity on our property and wouldn't leave when we asked her to.  She called the police because we were making too much noise (DH had used a saw--hand saw not electric--in our driveway at 5:30 in the afternoon); yes she was on our property yelling and calling the police that WE were making too much noise.  In our jurisdiction even that did not rise to the level of a restraining order.  So long as he is on his property and not making a specific threat a restraining order I wonder how many places would issue a restraining order (which still wouldn't prevent him from yelling on his property as long as he is not voilating noise ordinances).  I would also have concerns that it would place you in a postion that you could not enter his property to fetch your dog if your dog crossed over to his property.  If he is indeed afraid of the dog, the good news he probably won't enter your property if you keep the dog.

[sassenach]

Oof. Maybe it’s because I’m an LA girl, but I would have screamed right back at that a-hole. I’ve got a gun and a Marine husband so don’t you threaten me and no one speaks to my kids like that. 
 

But after that, I’d probably start looking to move because peace with my neighbors is pretty important to me. 
 

sorry. 

[goldberry]

You can't fence the front yard because of HOA, but what do you have a porch you could close in somehow?  So that if dog got out, he still couldn't get off the porch?  

Edited October 19, 2021 by goldberry

[MooCow]

I'm on the board of an HOA. Contact your HOA and let them know what happened and see what you'll be allowed to do regarding and closing your porch or Gates or whatever. You'd be surprised at how much most of them are willing to work with their residents. Remember as a property owner you have rights in the HOA. Your dues cover a lot. A lot of them get bad raps but they are there to work with their residents.

[regentrude]

I would not rehome the dog, but I also do not see a need to get a restraining order just because the neighbor yelled when he was upset.

For somebody who is afraid of dogs, having a dog run onto their property is seriously scary, especially since the dog's behavior is unpredictable. Honestly, if a big dog ran onto my yard, I would yell, too. 

He didn't cause the situation. He reacted in a manner that was less than ideal, but your dog scared him. That doesn't mean he's dangerous - unless there are other incidents which he started that you have not shared. He didn't threaten you or your kids - he just wanted your dog gone from his yard. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by regentrude

[Calizzy]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I hope she doesn't feel ganged up on, too!

I know I'm being kind of hard on her, but I mostly just want to her to take a deep breath and give herself some time to calm down before she makes any decisions about her dog, because I think once a little time has passed, she will realize that while this was upsetting for sure, it's not as bad as she is worrying that it is, and that her neighbor probably got so scared of the dog that he started yelling -- and to remember that this is not a regular occurrence with the guy. For all Calizzy knows, he might even be feeling pretty embarrassed about it by now.

I don’t actually feel ganged up on. I do think it’s hard to describe how he was acting. He wasn’t just shouting at us. It’s hard to describe but he was doing that thing where you bounce your chest out like you’re instigating a fight. And it wasn’t just a few words. It went on for 5-10 minutes. Then he sat on his steps staring us down. 
I’m actually glad dh wasn’t here because I think it could have resulted in a fight. I don’t want dh to talk to him because I do not feel safe with any of us stepping foot on his property. He made that clear. 
I had a 3rd neighbor call me to check on me because she heard the whole thing and couldn’t believe it. She called to make sure we were ok and said she does not feel comfortable around this guy anymore either. 
 

[Harriet Vane]

2 hours ago, Calizzy said:

We did have an invisible fence and it was less effective. He is a great dog and we have done training with him. He sits, he stays, he doesn't chew, jump, or dig. But if he sees a squirrel he will bolt and go through the invisible fence.

We have a police chief who lives 2 houses down. He heard the altercation and came up after. I spoke with him and he said that he thought we should rehome the dog. He said that the guy seems to only have explosive reactions towards the dog, so no dog=no need to be afraid.

That is really bad advice. FTR we are not pet owners (other than a pretty fish tank) and most of our experience with animals is occasionally pet sitting for friends or our daughter every now and then. 

Quite frankly, as someone who has dealt a ton with police and social workers because of our involvement with foster care, often the powers that be minimize and often they have simplistic, unrealistic, totally ineffective solutions. 

Giving in to bullies gives them power. It's not about the dog. It's about power. He exerted power over you by continuing to yell when you were clearly and obviously cowering.

Do not get rid of a beloved dog for two minor non-incidents spread out by years. The dog didn't hurt anybody and didn't dig up anyone's rose bushes. It's really not a big deal that your dog ran loose, especially because you quickly contained the dog. 

[JustEm]

1 hour ago, Catwoman said:

I keep thinking that if the guy doesn't yell at the kids for other things, he's probably just terrified of dogs and he got scared when Calizzy's dog approached him. 

If he was truly a threat, I would think he would already have a bad reputation in the neighborhood, and he would be constantly yelling at the kids when they were out playing and making noise. 

Could he have truly felt threatened by the dog? A happy dog bounding over to get petted could be viewed as aggressive by someone who may have once been badly bitten by another dog in the past.

I know the guy was way out of line with his over-the-top reaction, and I'm not excusing that, but for Calizzy to immediately jump to the thought of the guy getting physically violent with her or her kids seems like an equally over-the-top reaction when it sounds like there have only been two altercations in five years, and both were about the dog. (And the guy didn't call the police and demand that the dog be removed from her home or anything, either. He just got angry and loud.) I just don't think it's entirely fair to think the guy might be homicidal because he lost his temper twice in 5 years. 

Oh, I completely agree with everything you say.  My advice is strictly based off of the fact that the OP is scared he could get physical.  She's already working hard to keep the dog away and has successfully done so for 5 years before a single incident. Aside from not having a dog at all, there is very little she could do to improve her track record.  

`I personally would feel threatened the way the OP does based off 2 incidents with an angry man but the fact is that she's scared and can take steps to protect herself if she feels she needs protecting.  Not engaging with a person you fear is one of those things.  I'd even suggest therapy for OP if she is genuinely scared of physical threat after the emotions of the incident subside because to me it extended fear for the issue as described seems over the top.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

While I think chances are the guy just has a severe dog phobia, especially with big dogs, it’s worth considering that the police know things that you don’t. One of my best friends is a police sergeant and I sent the details of this to him.  Jumping to a restraining order and rehoming the dog feels like a huge overreaction on the part of law enforcement to both of us, but his suggestion is that it’s possible that your local LE knows some things about this guy that they aren’t at liberty to share with you.     If your instinct is that there’s something dangerous about him, combined with your local LE suggesting this zero to sixty approach,  it’s possible they’ve got a history on him you don’t know.

[JustEm]

19 minutes ago, Calizzy said:

I don’t actually feel ganged up on. I do think it’s hard to describe how he was acting. He wasn’t just shouting at us. It’s hard to describe but he was doing that thing where you bounce your chest out like you’re instigating a fight. And it wasn’t just a few words. It went on for 5-10 minutes. Then he sat on his steps staring us down. 
I’m actually glad dh wasn’t here because I think it could have resulted in a fight. I don’t want dh to talk to him because I do not feel safe with any of us stepping foot on his property. He made that clear. 
I had a 3rd neighbor call me to check on me because she heard the whole thing and couldn’t believe it. She called to make sure we were ok and said she does not feel comfortable around this guy anymore either. 
 

In the future, if anything like that happens again just walk away and don't be his verbal punching bag.  Get yourself and the kids  inside the second he is acting aggressive.  Yelling is one thing.  Even yelling profanities.  But I know exactly the stance you are talking about and that is beyond someone scared of a dog, especially if the dog was still outside with you and a threat to the man (in his eyes.)

Edited October 19, 2021 by hjffkj

[Bootsie]

12 minutes ago, Calizzy said:

I don’t actually feel ganged up on. I do think it’s hard to describe how he was acting. He wasn’t just shouting at us. It’s hard to describe but he was doing that thing where you bounce your chest out like you’re instigating a fight. And it wasn’t just a few words. It went on for 5-10 minutes. Then he sat on his steps staring us down. 
I’m actually glad dh wasn’t here because I think it could have resulted in a fight. I don’t want dh to talk to him because I do not feel safe with any of us stepping foot on his property. He made that clear. 
I had a 3rd neighbor call me to check on me because she heard the whole thing and couldn’t believe it. She called to make sure we were ok and said she does not feel comfortable around this guy anymore either. 
 

Having dealt with a yelling, unreasonable, unhinged neighbor recently, I said "I cannot carry on a conversation when you are yelling", went in my house, and shut my door.  I wouldn't try to continue for 5-10 minutes having a conversation with a person who is not in mental state for a conversation, or whom I felt threatend by.  And, the neighbor could stare at my house, but could not stare ME down.  If the neighbor is on his property, his behavior can be strange and worrisome, but he can't stare at me if I am not in sight. 

[ktgrok]

3 hours ago, Calizzy said:

The problem is that there can't be even 1 mistake. The last time the dog got lose and went in his yard was 2017. We have made a HUGE effort to not let the dog get out of the door, and we went over 900 days successfully. But 1 mistake. One five year old who doesn't close the door and we are afraid for our safety.

He yelled. He didn't threaten you, he didn't come out of his own yard towards you, he didn't wave a weapon. He yelled cause he was mad, and I'm betting he's afraid of dogs. And embarrassed that he's afraid. Or he's just obnoxious. 

But unless the dog was trying to attack him, having the dog get out twice in 5 years is no big deal. Let the guy yell. Some people yell. You have no more reason to be afraid of him than he has to be afraid of your dog. Seriously. Ignore it. Do NOT get rid of your dog!

[MercyA]

That police officer is an idiot and your neighbor is a bully (and also probably really scared of dogs). Your sweet dog doesn't deserve to be sent away because of that. It would cause terrible trauma to your dog, to your kids, and to you. There are plenty of other good solutions. (And thank you for saying that you don't feel ganged up on--it's gracious of you. I know we're all saying the same thing!)

Definitely have some sort of second layer of protection to keep your dog from getting out the door if he is a bolter. Train him to sit before he goes out.

I don't think this has been suggested yet, so I'll throw it out there--we ONLY take our dog outside on a leash, unless we're in a fenced yard or dog park. It's not a big deal. You may just have to get in the habit. If the dog wants to be outside with the kids, put him on a long tether. You can attach it to a stake in the yard or to a tree. (Just please, please do not leave him tethered without someone with him. He can get tangled or even strung up and choke.)

I understand that the guy scared you, but do your best to ignore him. Don't let him have any power over you. 

Edited October 19, 2021 by MercyA

[Spryte]

How is the neighbor other than the dog episodes? Do you have any relationship at all? Is he mostly normal? 

Edited October 19, 2021 by Spryte

[City Mouse]

Sounds like that guy must be really, really afraid of dogs.

Since the guy stayed in his own yard, I don’t see how a restraining  order would be of any help. You could ask for the police to write a report for the abusive language (if that is against the law in your town). The only reason for this would be to serve as documentation should things get worse. 
If the guy ever steps onto your property and behaves in a threatening manner, then you would call the police and do the restraining order to keep him off your property.

 

otherwise, I agree with most everyone, that 2 escapes in 5 years is not a reason to get rid of the dog. 

[TexasProud]

46 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

He yelled. He didn't threaten you, he didn't come out of his own yard towards you, he didn't wave a weapon. He yelled cause he was mad, and I'm betting he's afraid of dogs. And embarrassed that he's afraid. Or he's just obnoxious. 

But unless the dog was trying to attack him, having the dog get out twice in 5 years is no big deal. Let the guy yell. Some people yell. You have no more reason to be afraid of him than he has to be afraid of your dog. Seriously. Ignore it. Do NOT get rid of your dog!

Ok, if someone is yelling and cursing at me, I am running inside and hiding in a closet. I can't even handle when people look upset at me, much less if they were to say anything.

OP.  I totally get it. That would SO traumatize me. 

[Harriet Vane]

1 hour ago, City Mouse said:

Sounds like that guy must be really, really afraid of dogs.

Since the guy stayed in his own yard, I don’t see how a restraining  order would be of any help. You could ask for the police to write a report for the abusive language (if that is against the law in your town). The only reason for this would be to serve as documentation should things get worse. 
If the guy ever steps onto your property and behaves in a threatening manner, then you would call the police and do the restraining order to keep him off your property.

 

otherwise, I agree with most everyone, that 2 escapes in 5 years is not a reason to get rid of the dog. 

I am not sure that I would file anything at all in this case. It could be easily misinterpreted that the dog was out of control or vicious?

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have had a similar incident with a neighbor many years ago.  He was deathly afraid of dogs but hid it with bluster and bullyish behavior.  I would be firm but soft in my answer.  Not backing down.  But not escalating either. 

As others have said a retraining order would have done nothing to stop the behavior.  In fact, the fact that you would have had to violate the order yourself to retrieve the dog would have reflected badly on you if one was in place.  Whether the police chief knew more about the man or not is immaterial - his suggestion was not a good one for the dog, your family and wasn't even appropriate legally. 

Since this has only happened twice in five  years, I wouldn't be afraid of it happening again soon, necessarily.  But if it does happen again your dog needs to know the "come" command.  (Actually he needs to know it for his own safety anyway.  I would get a long lead (not a retractable lead), go to the park etc. and would work on the "come" command with lots of praise and treats for him coming immediately.)  I would also talk to the kids about immediately going indoors if the neighbor starts to yell.  They can come inside, get you and you immediately retrieve the dog with the come command or with a leash if he isn't trained yet. 

[Catwoman]

16 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

I am not sure that I would file anything at all in this case. It could be easily misinterpreted that the dog was out of control or vicious?

I agree. Aside from not wanting to create further animosity, I also don’t think it would benefit Calizzy in any way.

If the guy had made actual threats against the family, that would be a different story, but it sounds like he was just venting in a highly inappropriate way. 

I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m defending the guy, because I'm not. I just don’t think there is any need to escalate the situation, particularly because the guy has only caused a problem twice in 5 years, and both times involved him most likely being scared of Calizzy’s dog. His behavior was awful and it’s terrible that his ranting scared the kids, but chances are good that this will not be a regular occurrence — and if it is, it’s time to move because a restraining order isn’t going to keep the family safe.

[Pawz4me]

I've only quickly skimmed this thread.

I'm not going to tell you to not get rid of the dog. If it was me--no way in Hades would I get rid of a loved dog because of a problematic neighbor unless I truly feared for the dog's safety.

I think it's possible your neighbor is very afraid of dogs.

I think it's obvious he's a bully.

I'm the most mild mannered, mind-my-own business type of person normally, but in the (thankfully very rare) instances where someone has threatened me or a loved one (including pets) I have no problem at all standing my ground. Let's just say I'm constitutionally opposed to letting bullies "win." Wisely or not . . they do not go unchallenged around me.

In your shoes I'm positive I'd do at least these things:

I'd have very good quality cameras covering my entire yard.

I'd get some indoor invisible fence dohickeys and set them up at all exterior doors. Something like this, although this is a random pick from Amazon. I'd have to research best brands/types. 

I'd work on training. Aussies are smart; it shouldn't take long. He learns that he doesn't go outside unless/until a human gives him a release command. Or until his leash is attached to his collar. Many many years ago we lived on a busy road. I taught our dog to not cross the threshold of a door until her leash was attached. 

Work on the potentially lifesaving commands, which IMO are stay/wait (freeze in your tracks and don't move until I release you) and come.

Best of luck. I hate neighbor issues.

[Wildcat]

Deleted. This thread has reopened some old wounds that I should have left alone. Sorry.

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2021 by Wildcat

[Robin M]

May I ask a question.  Has the neighbor been overly belligerent at other times with other people or just with the dog?  You said your dog was running in circles around him.   It sounds like he's deathly afraid of dogs or did indeed feel threatened and had a flight or fight response.   Given that it's only happened twice, I wouldn't get rid of your dog.  The police chief may have suggested it, but you know your dog better than anyone else.  He could have mediated between your neighbor and you, brought you both together to talk it out and soothed ruffled feathers.  But it sounds like he only soothed the neighbor and not you.  I used to work in the domestic violence division for our county and lead folks through filling out restraining orders.   A restraining order wouldn't work in this case if he's only yelled at your dog, your kids, or you once or twice.  

We have several neighbor hood dogs on our street. Our next door neighbor's little dog has gotten out a couple times and growled, barked, and ran rather aggressively into our yard at me, at my husband which got his adrenaline going and he yelled at the dog, gotten a little steamed with our neighbors.  It gets your adrenaline going even when you have a friendly big dog or two (Labrador and Doberman)  running at you or circles around you and in my case jumping up to give me loves and conking me in the nose, which really really hurt. 

He may have had bad interactions with animals in the past and I'm not defending the neighbor's actions, but I understand the feeling.   

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this and hope you don't rehome your dog. 

Hugs.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Robin M

[Katy]

This is so strange for the police to react that way.  And frankly, it’s strange your neighbor has that strong of an emotional reaction to an Aussie, who might herd or nip at you but is unlikely to be really aggressive.  And it’s strange that you’re afraid a man who has yelled twice in five years, both in reaction to your dog, is going to hurt you.  Sounds like a ton of fear all around. 

Is it possible that you live in a town where it’s legal to shoot a dog that’s threatening you, especially on your property?  It’s the only reason I can think of for a cop to act that way. 

Have you looked up your neighbor on your state’s criminal database?

[Wildcat]

Deleted. I shared too much and it brought back awful memories that I can't shake.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Wildcat

[bolt.]

I just want to join what must be the most friendly "pile on" in the history of internet message boards. You know us. You know we are smart and wise. When a board like this is practically unanimous, no matter what it's about, it's probably the right answer.

The right answer is this: "Do not rehome your dog right now."

Yes, you had a very traumatic verbal altercation with that man. It has shaken you very seriously, as it would do to any of us... even those of us who believe we could 'ignore' such a thing, or who imagine we might shout back. That's why you really can't do anything permanent right now -- does that make sense? Just not right now. You aren't in the right headspace for a serious decision about something that matters as much as rehoming a family pet.

If, in a week or two, rehoming seems like the best option... well... maybe? But at least delay deciding anything permanent about the dog for a few weeks. You can do that. You can decide to wait-and-see: just based on this invisible cloud of very smart people advising you to hold your horses. There's no rush.

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Ok, if someone is yelling and cursing at me, I am running inside and hiding in a closet. I can't even handle when people look upset at me, much less if they were to say anything.

OP.  I totally get it. That would SO traumatize me. 

Oh, I'd definitely cry later and be shaken up for a few days. Everyone in my life must be really kind, because it's really upsetting to me when someone is nasty. 

I'm just saying...you can't help how you felt when he yelled like that. But don't let that feeling have too much influence over what you do next. 

[Shoeless]

I am also on Team "Do not rehome the dog".

Talk with someone who does behavior training and tell them what's up with the neighbor. The trainer may have some great suggestions on things you can do to further reduce the risk of the dog getting out, like gates in strategic places.

Talk to the HOA. Tell them what's up with the neighbor and ask what you can do re: fencing. Will they allow fencing in the backyard? If so, then put up a fence there and tell the kids no more playing in the front yard.

Talk to the kids. You may need to put a new system in place where no one opens the door unless the dog is in his crate or something similar.

I'd also be investigating moving.  The neighbor sounds unhinged and if it's not the dog, it will eventually be something else. I won't live in a neighborhood where I do not feel safe. The dog is a joy; the neighbor is a hostile a$$. I'd take my dog and move.

[fraidycat]

I agree with the others that you should keep the dog and work on training it to not cross the threshold of a doorway without permission.

I'd just like to point out to @Wildcat that anger is actually a very common cover emotion for fear, especially in men. It is absolutely possible that he was reacting out fear, even if someone else would react differently. It does not excuse his behavior at all, but it can explain it.

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 hour ago, Pawz4me said:

I'd work on training. Aussies are smart; it shouldn't take long. He learns that he doesn't go outside unless/until a human gives him a release command. Or until his leash is attached to his collar. Many many years ago we lived on a busy road. I taught our dog to not cross the threshold of a door until her leash was attached. 

Work on the potentially lifesaving commands, which IMO are stay/wait (freeze in your tracks and don't move until I release you) and come.

Yep. Train the dog, and make sure the dog is adequately exercised and mentally stimulated. We have a courtyard with a gate outside the front door, so we had been pretty lax, but when we got a young shepherd mix recently, we hired a dog trainer to come guide us through the works. We had done a full training program with our first lab, but with these (a 2 year old lab and a 6 month old shepherd mix now) we needed a refresher course and deadlines to make us actually follow through. LOL

One of the lessons that shocked me the most with its effectiveness was boundary training. It was new to me too, not something we had specifically trained on. Our dogs are smart, but OMgosh how quickly they learned proper behavior at the front door made me feel like an idiot at never having done it with the other dogs. It took minutes.

Having said that, it's essential to make sure our dogs get regular walks and lots of physical play, so they don't get that it's never now or never sense of needing to escape whenever the opportunity presents itself. As our trainer says, the pressure to obey you and/or the reward for obeying you has got to be greater than their desire to go after what they want, in this case sweet freedom. LOL 

And, absolutely, teach pup to come immediately when called. 

This guy uses a different technique, but it's a good place to start. 

 

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Wildcat said:

He has anger issues and 'hot off' on yelling at a woman with children nearby 

If a potentially dangerous animal comes onto somebody's property and they freak out because the animal is running around them and they feel threatened, that's not "anger issues".
I have been bitten by a dog before, and I had an absolutely frightening encounter with two dogs that were accosting me while I was with a baby and a toddler - if I saw a dog was running at me in my own yard, you can bet I would yell that they should get their damn dog away from me, because when you're terrified, it's the fear response and adrenaline that do the talking. 

ETA: And afterwards, I would sit there for a long time staring, waiting for my heart rate to normalize and my breathing to calm again.

Edited October 19, 2021 by regentrude

[DreamerGirl]

OP, I do not have any advice or even any idea on how to deal with the dog. 

But what jumped out at me is your fear at the encounter and how scared you are. You seem to try to articulate why you feel so and make sense of your fear and you keep describing his body language. 

I do not know if this is the situation, but I am reasonable person but when I have seemingly extreme reactions to situations especially fear I am unable to articulate why I feel that way. But I do feel what I feel.

I have learned to trust my instincts, not minimize it or rationalize it. I am also a person afraid of large dogs and we do not have pets. So if a dog ran into my yard I would be uncomfortable, I am still uncomfortable around dogs sniffing me but I do not yell that I scare people or make them feel unsafe around me. 

You saw what you saw with everything in you, including your senses and if that is sending an alarm that you are scared so much and do not why exactly, then do not rationalize it. You felt what you felt. Fear especially should not be rationalized if you are not a person usually jumping into conclusions. Perhaps there is a simple explanation, perhaps not. So please  also listen to that fear and take steps to feel safe. 

I am sorry this is happening to you and your kids. Also, keep the dog. 

[Bootsie]

25 minutes ago, regentrude said:

If a potentially dangerous animal comes onto somebody's property and they freak out because the animal is running around them and they feel threatened, that's not "anger issues".
I have been bitten by a dog before, and I had an absolutely frightening encounter with two dogs that were accosting me while I was with a baby and a toddler - if I saw a dog was running at me in my own yard, you can bet I would yell that they should get their damn dog away from me, because when you're terrified, it's the fear response and adrenaline that do the talking. 

ETA: And afterwards, I would sit there for a long time staring, waiting for my heart rate to normalize and my breathing to calm again.

I am the same way.  I do not want a dog licking or sniffing me, jumping on me, or anything else.  I don't care if the owner tells me the don't isn't being (or won't be) aggressive.  I surely do not want it while I am on my own property minding my own business (and I don't want to step in someone else's dog poop in my yard).  I hope I would be graceful enough to be kind to the owner if they were trying to get the dog; I wouldn't be too happy if the neighbor started telling me I was scaring their children when I was in my own yard and it wsa the neighbor's dog in my yard.  

Personally I am much more afraid of a dog than a man in his own yard screaming profanities about a dog unless there has been some violence I was aware of in the past.  

[AnotherNewName]

No comment on the rehoming as that has been addressed.  Your neighbor clearly has some issues. No idea what but that isn't normal behavior.

You have no legal basis for a restraining order and applying for one would be a serious escalation with no positive outcome.

[happi duck]

As a kid, I was in the yard of a vacation rental and a dog ran up and pinned me to the wall.  I've been afraid of dogs ever since especially when they come to me.  The neighbor behind us has a big dog behind a tall wooden fence.  It still scares me.  I know I would be screaming "get your dog!" if it ever broke through.  Scares me just thinking about it.

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

If a potentially dangerous animal comes onto somebody's property and they freak out because the animal is running around them and they feel threatened, that's not "anger issues".
I have been bitten by a dog before, and I had an absolutely frightening encounter with two dogs that were accosting me while I was with a baby and a toddler - if I saw a dog was running at me in my own yard, you can bet I would yell that they should get their damn dog away from me, because when you're terrified, it's the fear response and adrenaline that do the talking. 

ETA: And afterwards, I would sit there for a long time staring, waiting for my heart rate to normalize and my breathing to calm again.

I am very experienced with dogs but I do relate to this. I have encountered too many untrained dogs who have owners running after them yelling “it’s ok. They’re friendly.”  No, I don’t trust that an untrained/under trained dog is truly friendly because I haven’t been introduced properly. The answer is training. (And I have had my dogs get loose before I was finished training them. I do understand both sides.). 

[freesia]

I am so sorry this happened to you. I’m sorry you are afraid. He was wrong to frighten you so badly and I don’t think you should re-home the dog. 
I do want to agree with the ones saying that dog owners need to be aware that others relationship with their dogs is not the same. Both my sons have been bitten by dogs—completely unprovoked—one jogging by on the street ( electric fence failure) and the other watching a ball game in the owners living room. That time was right by the eye. Your beloved pet could actually really hurt someone. Their fear is not necessarily over the top. They don’t have a relationship with your dog. I  am not saying you should regime or not have a dog but maybe think how you’d react if it were a small child reacting to the same situation and maybe the understanding will lessen your fear. Maybe not. I wasn’t there and you were—but I agree with those who say it was a fear reaction. 

[J-rap]

It sounds like your neighbor is desperately afraid of dogs.  I have a good friend who was once attacked by a dog, and that leaves a reaction that's hard to change.  

Couple of thoughts.  Is your dog ever aggressive?  I had an Aussie once, and he would turn on people aggressively from time to time.  Apparently that's an odd gene in Aussies, but my dog had it.  If your dog isn't that type, then I'd do everything I could to keep him.  Do you allow him to wander in your yard off-leash?  You should keep him on a long leash or rope (with people around) all the time if he's outside on your property, since there's no fence.  Does he get plenty of exercise?  Daily exercise would probably help him be not so eager to take off.

I wonder if your dh could talk to the neighbor and help him get to know your dog.  I agree that he sounds like a bully and a little unhinged, but he's your neighbor and you want to live peacefully...  Could your dh bring your dog over on a leash, and give the neighbor treats to give to your dog?  That could be a good training session for both dog and neighbor.  Dog will think good things about the neighbor (in case he ever escapes again), and neighbor might realize that the dog is actually non-aggressive.   

[mathnerd]

TMI 

Edited October 20, 2021 by mathnerd

[TexasProud]

4 hours ago, mathnerd said:

OP, I have been chased and bitten by someone's dog decades ago and have severe dog-phobia because of this. I learned to live with a german shepherd inspite of this because it was like a child to the man that I married - otherwise, no way I would get within 10 ft of a large dog (that dog passed away long ago and we have no dogs now because of my phobia). My next door neighbor is an elderly lady with whom her daughter and son-in-law live because they are unemployed and she helps them out financially. They have 3 large pit bulls in a suburban lot and are too lazy to walk out of their door to check what their dogs are up to if the dogs run outside and they hardly say a word when the pit bulls jump aggressively on my fence every time I am in my yard. I hate it, I hate that people who have pets don't expend the energy to make sure that they are well behaved like their own children, i hate free-ranging pets and the assumption that everyone must love their dogs. I step out of my car in my driveway and see three large pit bulls approaching me and almost have a heart attack and my pulse rockets enough to make me wonder if I am going to have a medical emergency. I don't yell or bring it up with the neighbors - I just run inside and lock myself inside my house and wait for my heart to beat normally and check to see if I am still alive or if I am dead from the shock. This is just to tell you that there are many kinds of people and your dog whom you love may not be welcome in another person's yard or house.

This incident is not reason for a restraining order. If your dog never approached this man in his house, this situation would not have happened. Maybe he thought that the kids let the dog into his property and he was angry at all of them. This is your time to check on what kind of fencing (electrical, mechanical) that you can install or if you can put the dog on a long leash. Sorry for posting an unpopular opinion.

PS: if neighbor is aggressive in situations where your dog is not involved, that is another matter altogether.

Did you read OP's comments at all???? The dog has gotten out twice in 5 years!!!  She is not letting her dog run wild. (I don't like that either, but a fact of life in the country.)  They cannot have certain fencing because of restrictions. They had an invisible fence and the dog ran through it when he saw a squirrel.  The leash might work. 

Just read other responses before you condemn her for letting her dog run wild. Please. 

[Indigo Blue]

17 hours ago, MercyA said:

 

I don't think this has been suggested yet, so I'll throw it out there--we ONLY take our dog outside on a leash, unless we're in a fenced yard or dog park. It's not a big deal. You may just have to get in the habit. If the dog wants to be outside with the kids, put him on a long tether. You can attach it to a stake in the yard or to a tree. (Just please, please do not leave him tethered without someone with him. He can get tangled or even strung up and choke.)

 

I agree with this so much and I second the suggestion of never leaving a tethered dog unsupervised. Gates, fences, cameras. All good ideas! I hope you decide to keep your dog. My parents got rid of my childhood dog because a neighbor complained. We eventually got him back, but the whole thing was very traumatizing for me and for our dog. 

[Selkie]

12 hours ago, J-rap said:

Couple of thoughts.  Is your dog ever aggressive?  I had an Aussie once, and he would turn on people aggressively from time to time.  Apparently that's an odd gene in Aussies, but my dog had it.  If your dog isn't that type, then I'd do everything I could to keep him.  Do you allow him to wander in your yard off-leash?  You should keep him on a long leash or rope (with people around) all the time if he's outside on your property, since there's no fence.  Does he get plenty of exercise?  Daily exercise would probably help him be not so eager to take off.

It is actually pretty common for Aussies to have an unfavorable view of strangers and bark and sometimes get aggressive. They are not one of the super-friendly, cuddly breeds like golden retrievers, for instance. They can definitely be wary of people they don't know. I have three Aussies and my friend who is a vet likes to (jokingly) give me a hard time about all the rude behavior she sees from Aussies.🙂

[Idalou]

When the man was standing in this own yard screaming, was he saying threatening things about you and your family, or just expletives about the dog? If this was only the second time in 5 years, and he didn't terrify you much the first time, why are you this terrified now? Have you ever spoken to him in those 5 years? Has he seem unhinged before? Do dogs run loose there? Maybe it happens a lot and your dog was the last straw that caused his rage?  Is he known amongst your neighbors as the kooky one to avoid? Youve had the dog at least 5 years but are ready to rehome it after this one accident? That seems like you're not all that invested in the dog, unless the dog has some history you do not want to talk about, because if I feared for my family's safety in my own home then I'd certainly want a dog barking at the front door to alert me to the man I feared. A poorly trained or young Aussie can be hyper and barky and run circles around a person. Did the dog think it was protecting your kids? Why would it bolt across the street to a stranger? Was it barking happily or more in anger? Those are the the questions I'd be asking myself if it happened to me. I've had both unstable neighbors and also unstable dogs so this is not foreign to me.

Edited October 20, 2021 by Idalou

[WildflowerMom]

I'm curious about neighbors' interactions with this guy.  I *think* she said 3 different neighbors called to check on her.  That's quite a lot.   It also makes me think she's not exaggerating about his posturing and also that he has a history in that neighborhood. 

[ktgrok]

I do think we should distinguish between "GEt your expletive dog" and "I'm going to kick the crap out of you if you don't get your dog". Volume and bad words are scary, but if he didn't threaten actual harm or anything, he's likely just scared and loud. Not excusing it, but there is.a HUGE distance between "get your F'ing dog!" which although rude is requesting a reasonable action, and "I'm coming for you!" which is a threat. 

[kiwik]

On 10/20/2021 at 4:27 AM, Catwoman said:

I keep thinking that if the guy doesn't yell at the kids for other things, he's probably just terrified of dogs and he got scared when Calizzy's dog approached him. 

If he was truly a threat, I would think he would already have a bad reputation in the neighborhood, and he would be constantly yelling at the kids when they were out playing and making noise. 

Could he have truly felt threatened by the dog? A happy dog bounding over to get petted could be viewed as aggressive by someone who may have once been badly bitten by another dog in the past.

I know the guy was way out of line with his over-the-top reaction, and I'm not excusing that, but for Calizzy to immediately jump to the thought of the guy getting physically violent with her or her kids seems like an equally over-the-top reaction when it sounds like there have only been two altercations in five years, and both were about the dog. (And the guy didn't call the police and demand that the dog be removed from her home or anything, either. He just got angry and loud.) I just don't think it's entirely fair to think the guy might be homicidal because he lost his temper twice in 5 years. 

I was thinking it sounded like fear too.  It could be the guy is terrified of dogs.  Many people get aggressive when afraid.  If he is really afraid he is probably nervous when he is outside anyway.  I would make or buy a dog run and put a second door or gate and automatic closers on the front door.  Dog is either in the run of on a lead. But I grew up on a farm where dogs usually were confined when not working.  Think of it like a pool here the law requires all pools to be fenced with self closing child-safe gates because it a toddler  slips into the pool area because the older child forgot to shut the door the results are often fatal.

[Calizzy]

Update- we received a notice from animal control today that he reported that the dog attacked him. I wasn't home, so it was left on my door. I am 98% sure that isn't true. My 13 year old says she say the whole thing and the dog was running circles but never approached the guy. I came out 15 seconds after the incident began and he was screaming his head off, but never grabbing his leg or looking injured. Does animal control investigate, or just assume an allegation is true? 

 

We had resolved to keep the dog and bought a baby gate and were going to keep him in the basement. But now I'm worried about legal liability. If this goes down as an official warning and he gets out again I don't want to be subject to a civil suit, which I am 100% convinced he would file in a heartbeat.