No gas, NC, GA, and SC have declared a state of emergency- Pipeline hack

[DawnM]

So I went to meet a friend for a late lunch today and she needed to drive 90 miles home and didn't have enough gas.   We drove around to 6 gas stations before finally finding one with some gas and then had to wait in a long line to get it.

What are your thoughts on how long this will last and what we can expect?

 

[mommyoffive]

Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm said that the areas most impacted by the pipeline closure — North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Georgia and Southern Virginia — would likely experience a "supply crunch" but not a "gasoline shortage."

A small but increasing number of gas stations along the East Coast reported fuel shortages Tuesday, with six states estimated to have gas station outages. 

 

Colonial Pipeline is expected to make a decision by the end of Wednesday on whether to fully restart the pipeline, Granholm said. Still, it will still take a few days for the pipeline to ramp back up to normal production levels.

White House urges Americans not to hoard gas as hacked pipeline remains shut (msn.com)

[DawnM]

I am just curious about things like trucks, planes, and busses.....and school busses.   Will they be able to operate easily?

Planes to Hawaii and Asia out of NC are being rerouted and have stops in Western states to refuel before heading on out to Hawaii or Asia.

[Ausmumof3]

Secondly do we expect increasing numbers of these kind of events and plan accordingly?

[HeartString]

4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Secondly do we expect increasing numbers of these kind of events and plan accordingly?

I think so.  Our infrastructure is creaky and apparently easy to hack into. 

[Melissa in Australia]

4 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Secondly do we expect increasing numbers of these kind of events and plan accordingly?

I would think that cyber crimes and ransomware will increase

[Farrar]

How bad is it in NC anyway? I'm supposed to go take my mom to a do some key health things on Friday. I texted her and was like, um, mom, if I go down on Thursday, will I be able to get back home?!?

[DawnM]

5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

How bad is it in NC anyway? I'm supposed to go take my mom to a do some key health things on Friday. I texted her and was like, um, mom, if I go down on Thursday, will I be able to get back home?!?

I just know it took 6 gas stations to find anything and when we did there was a huge line.   I don't know if the whole state is the same or not.

[Annie G]

Athens, Ga and surrounding areas appear to be out of gas. Ds finally found some but waited in a long line. Neighbor said the three towns between Athens and here had none.  Hopefully it’s a very short term problem but cyber attacks could become more frequent so I’m concerned about more than just this event.

[teachermom2834]

We are in TN and today everyone went crazy and every place is out of gas. Dh has to travel to NC for a funeral this weekend. I am so weary of everything being so complicated all the time. It just seems like one thing after another.

I understand it is largely panic buying and everyone filling up at the same time.  They say not to do that but it is pretty hard to drive around seeing all the shortages and not fill up when you can. It’s like the toilet paper shortage. I definitely picked up an extra package here and there during that time. I’m not hoarding but there is a level of self preservation. I’m not sure how to not try to secure the desired commodity when a shortage is looming. I’m not filling up empty gas cans but if I am driving around on half a tank tomorrow and see a place with gas I probably will grab some. Do people really resist doing that and feel sure the supply will be there when they need it? I don’t want to be part of the problem but I do want to have gas in my tank.

[Sneezyone]

Is this like a hoarding thing? It takes me me a month to go through a tank of gas these days so I don’t pay much attention but I did see busy gas stations at midday today (which is highly unusual).

[Arcadia]

4 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Is this like a hoarding thing? It takes me me a month to go through a tank of gas these days so I don’t pay much attention but I did see busy gas stations at midday today (which is highly unusual).

The paper AP exam is on this week and last week. Commencement ceremonies are on this week. I am in the west coast so it is more of the usual high gas prices than a shortage. Costco gas stations are always busy here.

[DawnM]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Is this like a hoarding thing? It takes me me a month to go through a tank of gas these days so I don’t pay much attention but I did see busy gas stations at midday today (which is highly unusual).

Partly, and it is partly supply.

I can get to work and back for the rest of this week, and I could use another car (with a full tank) next week if necessary.   I am not sure about our school busses though, not sure what supply they have.

Edited May 12, 2021 by DawnM

[Sneezyone]

Just now, DawnM said:

Partly, and it is partly supply.

I can get to work and back for the rest of this week, and I could use another car next week if necessary.   I am not sure about our school busses though, not sure what supply they have.

Hmph. We are pretty close to the NC border. It did seem unusually busy but I didn’t think much of it. I’m not going anywhere and still have 3/4 tank so I’m going to bed. Lol.

[TravelingChris]

My Gov said we do not have a shortage.  

[alisoncooks]

Eesh. I hope it resolves quickly. We have 3 fairly lengthy car trips coming up in the next few weeks. I doubt prices will drop by then, even if the supply becomes available. 

[LAS in LA]

“It’s not a shortage, it’s a distribution problem.” (from local news)

Either way, it sounds like people are having trouble finding gas. I waited 1/2 an hour to fill my almost-empty tank.

ETA we’re in western VA.

Edited May 12, 2021 by LAS in LA

[Terabith]

My facebook feed was full of people talking about long lines at the gas stations and also pictures of someone with an SUV that they were filling with dozens of 5 gallon containers of gas in the trunk.  

I went and filled both cars up.  One had a half tank and another one was down to under a quarter tank.  Now that I'm driving my oldest to theater class three times a week, we're going through it a lot faster than we were (though still pretty slowly).  

It was pretty nuts out there, and prices were up almost 50 cents from yesterday, but it was doable for me to fill up both cars.  

[mom2scouts]

59 minutes ago, HeartString said:

I think so.  Our infrastructure is creaky and apparently easy to hack into. 

Yes. A cybersecurity expert told me the Russians like to see how a country responds to attacks that aren't what we traditionally think of as attacks against a country and they're likely waiting for an opportunity to attack our infrastructure. I'm not in one of the affected states, but our gas prices have been rising like crazy.

[HeartString]

15 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

Yes. A cybersecurity expert told me the Russians like to see how a country responds to attacks that aren't what we traditionally think of as attacks against a country and they're likely waiting for an opportunity to attack our infrastructure. I'm not in one of the affected states, but our gas prices have been rising like crazy.

Not well.  We do not respond well. 

[Xahm]

We've changed plans for a field trip in response, doing something closer to home instead. I've got a quarter tank, and I'll certainly fill up if I get the chance next time I'm out. 

[vonfirmath]

1 hour ago, LAS in LA said:

“It’s not a shortage, it’s a distribution problem.” (from local news)

Either way, it sounds like people are having trouble finding gas. I waited 1/2 an hour to fill my almost-empty tank.

ETA we’re in western VA.

Would they TELL us if it was a shortage? Or would they say just this to avoid a panic?

Toilet paper was hard to find for a LONG time.

[Sneezyone]

8 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Would they TELL us if it was a shortage? Or would they say just this to avoid a panic?

Toilet paper was hard to find for a LONG time.

We do have a strategic reserve that’s plenty full and can be tapped.

[HeartString]

13 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Would they TELL us if it was a shortage? Or would they say just this to avoid a panic?

Toilet paper was hard to find for a LONG time.

Toilet paper was more a supply chain disruption.  There was always plenty in the country.  It just wasn’t where we needed.  Every person that grabbed an “extra” threw off our fragile “just in time” supply chain.

Supply of gasoline was disrupted but everyone topping off on the same day is causing the real problem. The system isn’t designed for that.  

[chiguirre]

The Colonial Pipeline should be online by the end of the week, but it will take a while to move fuel into affected states. The pipeline moves product at 5 miles an hour.

This is probably just the first salvo of the Solar Winds debacle from 2020. Vladimir Putin is feeling the pressure from the Navalny protests and needs to do something to distract Russians and make them feel like a major power again.

[Serenade]

2 hours ago, Farrar said:

How bad is it in NC anyway? I'm supposed to go take my mom to a do some key health things on Friday. I texted her and was like, um, mom, if I go down on Thursday, will I be able to get back home?!?

According to WRAL, nearly 60 percent of gas stations in Raleigh are out of gas. My husband was in Durham this morning, and at that time there was still gas available there, but lines everywhere.

https://www.wral.com/panic-buying-after-pipeline-hack-leads-to-long-lines-little-fuel-at-triangle-gas-stations/19672116/

I have a 10 hour round trip drive on Friday to pick up my son from Western, and I'm worried about finding enough gas to do that.  

[KungFuPanda]

My mom just informed me that she's stuck in Myrtle Beach.  They'll have to stay until they can get the gas to drive back to WV.

[Starr]

4 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

My mom just informed me that she's stuck in Myrtle Beach.  They'll have to stay until they can get the gas to drive back to WV.

I wish I was stuck at the beach! 

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, LAS in LA said:

“It’s not a shortage, it’s a distribution problem.” (from local news)

Either way, it sounds like people are having trouble finding gas. I waited 1/2 an hour to fill my almost-empty tank.

ETA we’re in western VA.

That’s the bull we heard after hurricane Harvey. 

[prairiewindmomma]

My understanding from the IT end of things is that they still haven’t resolved the takeover, and it initially was thought to be resolvable in 48-72 hours. It’s been much longer than that. I would expect things to be shaky even into next week. Even if they immediately resolved it and got it flowing, people are still going to be wanting to fill up when they are able to....there will be increased demand for a bit.

[Melissa in Australia]

Some of the photos on the news over here are showing people filling up the strangest containers. Shocking.blue barrels, water cubes, etc.

Are you guys really allowed to fill up non fuel approved containers at a petrol station? Here nobody would even dream of doing that. So dangerous

[prairiewindmomma]

18 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

Some of the photos on the news over here are showing people filling up the strangest containers. Shocking.blue barrels, water cubes, etc.

Are you guys really allowed to fill up non fuel approved containers at a petrol station? Here nobody would even dream of doing that. So dangerous

Yes, very dangerous. It is not legal, but in states without gas attendants, you are rarely stopped. After Hurricane Harvey I saw people filling rubber trash cans with gasoline and all kinds of craziness. (People were running generators so high demand not only for vehicles, but for generators, chainsaw operations, etc.)

[Jean in Newcastle]

23 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes, very dangerous. It is not legal, but in states without gas attendants, you are rarely stopped. After Hurricane Harvey I saw people filling rubber trash cans with gasoline and all kinds of craziness. (People were running generators so high demand not only for vehicles, but for generators, chainsaw operations, etc.)

I can't imagine that we would be allowed to do that here in our state.  At least if someone looked out and saw you.  

[Ausmumof3]

3 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Would they TELL us if it was a shortage? Or would they say just this to avoid a panic?

Toilet paper was hard to find for a LONG time.

This is my usual thought with stuff like this!

[prairiewindmomma]

36 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I can't imagine that we would be allowed to do that here in our state.  At least if someone looked out and saw you.  

I suspect some of the reticence for intervention came from the fact that this was Texas and a lot of people were openly carrying guns. I heard of similar tales in Oklahoma and Louisiana.

[prairiewindmomma]

Colonial Pipeline (the one shut down now) was one of the ones shut down in 2017 after Harvey.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/gas-shortages-in-texas-as-harvey-knocks-out-refineries/
 

Scroll down into the article and there is a map of where it flows.

[Carrie12345]

7 hours ago, teachermom2834 said:

Do people really resist doing that and feel sure the supply will be there when they need it

I don’t think many people resist topping off.
I do think plenty of people resist (or, honestly, aren’t able) to go bat-poop crazy!

I’m technically not in an area that’s “impacted”, but I’m near enough to expect some impact. (Sandy had people driving in from out of state to find gas.). My car is at 3/4, and I’ll probably top off after an appointment this morning.  We told dd to top off, too. We did get an “extra” 15 gallons the other day. It isn’t supposed to be “extra” b/c dh was supposed to be rotating our emergency supply regularly, but he left them empty!  It would have had zero extra impact if we had managed it properly.  But that supply is intended for actual emergencies (taking a kid to a hospital or whatever) and to be sure dh and dd can respond with the fire department.  Not for hoarding or taking unnecessary drives.

[Carrie12345]

5 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Would they TELL us if it was a shortage? Or would they say just this to avoid a panic?

...

... ...

... ... ... I’m not saying they ARE lying, but you’re asking if they would. I think the answer is pretty obvious.

[Pawz4me]

I think it's kind of silly semantics to say there's not a shortage, it's a distribution problem. It's almost certainly technically true that there isn't a shortage. As already stated, we have a strategic reserve in this country, so technically we're unlikely to have a true shortage of gas over a short term period. But if there is a distribution problem getting an adequate amount of gas to a particular area then for all intents and purposes that area has a shortage. So playing with semantics is kind of a distraction.

On the local FB page yesterday (a sad representation of the dumbest among us, IMO) there was a considerable amount of arguing over things like that. The pipeline had put out a statement saying part of the line was operating under manual control, so the not-very-bright people were saying it was up and running, why were people panic buying? What the statement actually said was that a small pipeline between NC and . . somewhere else (NJ?) was operating under manual control as long as inventory held. That's of course a huge (HUGE) difference in the main pipeline itself being fully up and running under manual control. But the majority of people can't or won't read for complete comprehension. Wording needs to be precise and simple enough that the dumbest among us can understand it, otherwise it just makes a bad situation worse. (Sorry to sound so cynical, but reading FB yesterday made me despair.)

FWIW, my local news is reporting that in NC 14.7 percent of gas stations are out, and that most of those are in the Raleigh/Durham, Charlotte and Wilmington areas. Here in the Triad area I heard of sporadic outages yesterday, or stations being out of regular unleaded. There appeared to be long lines everywhere. And yes, people fill up all sorts of unsafe containers. All fuel here is self serve; ain't nobody gonna stop an idiot from being an idiot.

I think one thing making this worse is that in recent memory (over the last two/three years) we've had at least two incidents of issues with that pipeline causing gas shortages. My memory may be incorrect, but I think one was hurricane related and one was a leak or some other issue that caused the pipeline to have to shut down temporarily. So those are still fresh in people's minds.

ETA: The state of emergency declaration in NC does several useful things, including anti price-gauging restrictions, increases the time truckers can work each day and raises the weight limit that trucks can carry. There are probably other practical issues covered under a SOE declaration, but those are the ones I know off the top of my head. So it's more a practical thing than a "danger! danger!" thing.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Pawz4me

[CTVKath]

I'm near Atlanta and there's no gas available around me. We will curtail activities until we have a better idea of when gas will be available again. Our governor temporarily suspended gas sales tax to ease the price increases but that just seems like it will encourage people to top off. I've also heard that companies that would move gas via tankers from another state and bring it here will have to pay excise taxes in the other states because our sales taxes have been suspended. Sounds like a giant mess to me.

There's plenty of supply. It's just transportation of that supply that's suspended by the pipeline being shut down. I sure do hope the other utilities and emergency services and essential services are taking notice and planning for future cyber attacks. I doubt these attacks will decrease. It's despicable but if you want to disrupt an area, what better way to do it than to disrupt utilities? 

[chiguirre]

10 hours ago, LAS in LA said:

“It’s not a shortage, it’s a distribution problem.” (from local news)

Either way, it sounds like people are having trouble finding gas. I waited 1/2 an hour to fill my almost-empty tank.

ETA we’re in western VA.

Well, technically that's true. The refineries are operating and producing fuel but they can't ship it to customers, soooo....

6 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

That’s the bull we heard after hurricane Harvey. 

This is more in line with the reality on the ground.

[Faith-manor]

Agreeing with Pawz. Frankly, if you have seen the movie "Idiocracy", while an exaggeration, it also wasn't wrong. The communication needs to be like " Joe Not Sure" trying to communicate to his cabinet which meant very limited vocabulary in terms they could understand. That is where we are at in this nation. I have relatives who have really let their brains atrophy so thought they SHOULD be able to understand the not particularly at all complex issues with this, they don't because they have become "read the bullet point headline only" people, and then get totally confused when the real situation is not whatever the attention getting headline said. It gets so old! I suggest leadership and journalists stop the darn ratings and attention grab, and start talking to America like a classroom of 2nd graders. Yes, I am jaded at the moment.

But, recent emergencies like the freeze in Texas definitely make people feel panicky, and Texas government ineptitude did not include anyone with confidence. This kind of thing makes everyone stare at their own state capitols with suspicion and derision thus adding further fuel to the fire.

Michigan is on a completely different pipeline so no worries. But, for whatever reason, the gas station we get recreation fuel from- a special blend we use in our mower and log splitter - is having trouble keeping it in stock. Dh is headed there with all of our gas cans plus a couple of extra my mom has so we can just get the summer supply stocked and not worry about it. We take care of not only our own one acre yards but my mother's one acre and his mom's half. This township goes bananas on people if they don't keep lawns cut short....sigh...so bad for the environment! We can't afford fines on three yards! I am beginning to think I need to buy five sheep, turn them loose in each yard with a borrowed Australian Shepherd from my friends' farm, and let move them between each home all summer lawn. All natural, environmentally friendly blame maintenance!

[Elizabeth86]

7 hours ago, Starr said:

I wish I was stuck at the beach! 

I know, right?

[HeartString]

Obviously it's not being communicated properly, but to me "it's not a supply issue, its a distribution problem" is techno speak for "if ya'll would just act right this wouldn't be a problem."  We can't all get gas on the same day.  If we hadn't tried to do that gas stations wouldn't be empty. 

I wish that instead of repeating a phrase that no one understands the powers that be would go out and say, "hey, this happened, its an issue.  Please don't hoard.  Schools need to have a few virtual days.  Employers need to let everyone that can work from home do so for a week or two.  If everyone conserves instead of hoarding we can get through this with minimal disruption."  

 

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by HeartString

[Hyacinth]

Supply problem vs distribution problem is a distinction without much difference for most people.

 

[WildflowerMom]

I'm in SE Ga.  the stations in my little town put bags over some of their pumps the first day and on the second day there was still gas available.  I guess they were trying to discourage panic buying??  Idk how that works tbh.   I saw one of the stations I go to was open yesterday and nothing over the pump handles, so maybe that strategy worked?   Idk.  Ds's roommate is totally empty, or at least he was.  Maybe he's found some gas by now.   I guess ds or gf took him to work.  🤷🏻‍♀️

[LAS in LA]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I think it's kind of silly semantics to say there's not a shortage, it's a distribution problem. It's almost certainly technically true that there isn't a shortage. As already stated, we have a strategic reserve in this country, so technically we're unlikely to have a true shortage of gas over a short term period. But if there is a distribution problem getting an adequate amount of gas to a particular area then for all intents and purposes that area has a shortage. So playing with semantics is kind of a distraction.

 

1 hour ago, Hyacinth said:

Supply problem vs distribution problem is a distinction without much difference for most people.

 

Exactly.

[DawnM]

Funny, not funny....

We had a parent call the school today and cuss out the secretary.   He said, "You should be going virtual!  I have better things to do with my gas than drive my kids to school!"

I can't make this stuff up !

Edited May 12, 2021 by DawnM

[TechWife]

 

[lynn]

13 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

My Gov said we do not have a shortage.  

No problems this end of town either.  A bit busier but not bad.