Need some advice on how to deal with situation with dd

[AprilTN]

Please don't quote, I may need to delete this later.....Thank you....

 

My dd is learning to drive and is only a few weeks away from getting her license.  Tonight as she was driving home, she was going a little too fast in a residential area. Now, she was technically going the speed limit of 35, but it was too fast for the weather, a small amount of fog rolling in, the nighttime, the new potholes that are scattered here and there and need to be watched for, and for the amount of cars either on the road or attempting to pull out from a side street.  I felt that it was too fast for all these things and told her to slow down.  Instead of slowing down, she continued her speed and responded that she was "going the speed limit" and her tone was matter-of-fact, as if she had no intention of heeding my warning.  

 

Within 2 seconds of this, she had to swerve to miss a huge pothole, and never slowed down, which felt even more dangerous.  I yelled for her to slow down slow down!!! She reluctantly slowed down a little and said " MOOOOOOOOMMMM" in her eye-rolling voice.  At the same time, she was approaching a roundabout that is 20 mph and I said, "Slow the crap down this very instant!  You should be going 20 miles per hour or less!!"

 

She slowed down but at that point she was upset with me for "yelling" at her.  Yes I absolutely yelled....after I asked normally the first time, got a little more vocal the second time, and finally yelled the third time (this all happened in about 10 seconds).  I explained that she was driving dangerously.  I told her that even when her dad and I are driving, that if someone says slow down, the other one will slow down.  I said, "what if I had seen a person stepping out into the road and you didn't see?  You need to slow down when I tell you to."

 

She was very ticked off.  Then she started driving at 20 mph in a 35 zone the rest of the way home, until I had had enough and told her to pull over and let me drive the rest of the way home.  

 

When we got home we were sitting down to watch a weekly show we always watch on this day/time, and she wouldn't come and watch with us.  I told her to come on, that the situation was over, and she needed to apologize and we need to move on.

 

Now, you need to understand that despite the fact that I am quick to apologize to my children, and have modeled that consistently, my dd is usually not quick to apologize and will hold a grudge and not apologize, and then when my dh or I explain after too much time has gone by that she should apologize, she will either argue or she will give an apology that is not actually sorry. 

 

So an hour has gone by since we arrived home, she is still mad, I have been kind to her but I am getting lots of attitude back from her.

 

My question is....what would you do in this situation?  Here is what I need to happen:  I need her to apologize for not listening and putting herself and 2 other people in the car in danger.  I need her to explain to me that she understands that speed limits are "limits" and that you have to adjust for conditions.  I also need her to show that she understands that I must be able to correct her driving and she not get so offended and that she will LISTEN.  

 

I feel like this situation needs some consequences.  I am just really bad at deciding what is an appropriate consequence for this.  Any ideas?  Thanks so much.

 

 

[almondbutterandjelly]

I'm feeling cranky tonight, so that is affecting my response.  I feel like I would take away the keys and inform her that she has proven she does not have the maturity to handle a vehicle that can in fact cause people's deaths if handled incorrectly, badly, or immaturely.  She would wait a very long time before she would be permitted to drive again, and her attitude would definitely have to come around.

[hornblower]

I wouldn't really care about the apology because that's just not a big deal to me.

BUT - I wouldn't let her take the final exam for the driving licence. I'd make her wait another month at least & demonstrate more responsible driving skills, including adjusting speed for conditions and heeding safety warnings from occupants. If I were feeling really cranky, I'd make her write an essay on the demonstrated dangers of excessive speed.

[Slartibartfast]

I wouldn't let her drive until she was prepared to take adverse conditions into account. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

 

I would need to be able to trust my kid with a vehicle, if they don't want to listen with you in the car then what are they going to do when you aren't there?

[simplemom]

All of the above

[Catwoman]

I wouldn't care about the apology, either, but as hornblower and perky bunch have already mentioned, it doesn't sound like your dd has the maturity to be driving just yet. I can't imagine how your she thought it would be OK to ignore your warning to slow down, and to put you, herself, and your car in jeopardy by driving recklessly.

 

To be honest, like Slartibartfast, I am more concerned about how she drives when you aren't in the car than with what she did tonight. I would worry that with no supervision (and maybe a few friends in the car,) she might put herself in real danger by driving too quickly and not paying enough attention to road and weather conditions.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Agreeing with perky and hornblower. I wouldn't care if she hated me forever, I would NOT sign off on her readiness to drive solo. You might save lives by infuriating your daughter at this juncture. No humility, no concern for safety laws, no license.

 

 

[Acorn]

She's not ready for a license.

[AmyontheFarm]

Oh my, what you are describing is exactly the sort of thing my dd did a few years ago.  First, some hope, she will mature in time.  Now the hard part, take the keys away and let her know that when you see her ability to take directions from those around her and be able apologize properly then you will consider putting her on your insurance.  Until then, she walks.

 

What if she had hit someone tonight?  I understand she wasn't driving that fast, but what if she kills someone at some point?  How will you feel then?  How would YOUR car insurance be affected?  Driving is a privilege for those who have the maturity to obey the rules of the road and the parents.

 

I finally got to the point where I wouldn't let my dd drive with me in the car.  Daddy had to take her.  She had to cancel her appointment for her test because she didn't have enough driving hours in.  She tried to say it was my fault for not taking her out driving.  Daddy gave her a "get real with God" talk about her choices and behaviours and then he didn't take her out for a while.  Eventually, she realized she was wrong and apologized and earned back Daddy's trust and mine.

 

Now she is a very safe driver.  She makes good choices and has even called us apologetically after school in the city saying that she felt she was too sick and tired to be driving home.  We were happy to go pick her up.  Don't rush this.  She'll figure it out eventually, or she'll learn to take a bus. :)

[Joker]

I'm not going to address the driving as we are just now getting into this, but I will comment on the apology and demeanor. I think you need to leave her alone. I have a dd who needs lots more time to process things than I do and it used to affect how I dealt with her. She finally looked at me one day and explained to me (it wasn't pleasant) that she needed to just be alone with herself and her thoughts. The more I tried to reach out the more she pulled back and it created something ugly. I do not force apologies and I do not force hanging out with the family. Now that we are on the same page she is much more open and apologizes sometimes before I even think she should.

[matrips]

She sounds too immature to be driving. If she thinks she knows it all, or gets angry and petulant while driving like she did tonight, then she will be a danger on the road. I wouldn't be in any rush to give her a license. She sounds like she needs a lot more practice, or just more time to mature. I'd wait for her to apologize and truly be ready and willing to learn how to drive safely. I'd be willing to take her out again once that happened, but if it happened again, I'd probably wait several months before trying again. You can't have that kind of attitude driving. It's too dangerous in my opinion.

[texasmama]

The consequence is that she does not get a driver's license at this time.  At some point in the future, when she is mature enough to handle the life and death responsibility, you can reconsider. 

 

The teen moodiness and "punishing" you by refusing to watch a show is separate, but this is not someone who needs to be driving.

[Starr]

Teen drive worse when their parents are not in the car. I live in a small town, we know, we share. She certainly isn't ready for her license if she's not being careful with you in the car. The apology and the speech won't prove anything. I would just tell her you are pushing her drivers test back and not scheduling a new test until she can drive responsibly and not be snotty.   :grouphug:  We didn't get licenses here very early. And when ds got his license the tester told him he was a new driver not a good driver, yet.

[Cottonwood]

I agree, shes not ready.  Just think how she will drive when you arent with her.  This is very serious in my book since driving can be deadly if not handled properly.  She needs to understand the seriousness of it and adjust her attitude.  My daughter would loose this privilege on the spot until later once she'd matured some.  They just know it all at this age, huh?!

[SproutMamaK]

I agree with the others, the appropriate consequence for refusing to drive safely, even when the people in the car are telling you that their driving is scaring you and making them feeling in danger, is that said person does not get to drive for a while until they show that they are mature enough to ecept direction and admit fault. I wouldn't force her to apologize; I think the natural consequence of her actions will make her so angry that you cannot expect one. (SHOULD she, yes, but pick your battles here. ;) ) However much she hates it, though, you need to do it. If this is how she reacts, she's not ready to be on the road.

[mamajag]

She wouldn't be getting her license here for quite a while and wouldn't be driving with me for a bit. She will be worse without you in the car, and for not only her sake but for the safety of the others on the road you need to hold off a bit.

 

Forced apologies mean nothing.

[jenn-]

I'm with everyone else, apology or not she wouldn't be getting a driver's license for a really long time here.

[Tsuga]

While I understand that the most important thing when driving is not killing anyone, I think that you have most control over a few things:

 

1. Your car is your property, and if you don't feel comfortable letting her drive it, if for no other reason that you don't want anyone harmed by it, your kid or anyone else, that's her problem. She's going to have to find another car.

 

2. Your health and safety is your business, and if you don't feel safe in the car with her driving because she has a childish, self-righteous attitude, that's going to be her problem.

 

Her attitude is childish and immature and completely inappropriate for a driver. You are absolutely right that when you're in the car and yell "slow down", even if it's at your DH or mom, they need to listen because you might have seen something they did not. This is why my children aren't allowed to scream in the car. It causes an automatic reaction on my part.

 

I assume she has not worked to buy this car. My stepdaughter has saved up enough to buy a cheap old Japanese commuter car with babysitting money and she's 13. She will be able to buy a beater by the time she is 16. I rented my mom's car and paid the insurance. My partner rented his mom's car and paid his own insurance. I have such a hard time believing that a kid with that attitude has a job because getting and keeping a job and saving requires more maturity than driving a car. And I won't take "but I can't get a job until I have a car" for an answer. I walked 1.5 hours to my job in college because the bus didn't run on Sunday. I have taken the bus and walked across an entire metropolitan area while a college student to a job. LOTS of people in this country carpool or find a way. Walk to a farm. Do something. Sell on e-bay and get a ride with mom. It is possible. Not to over-think the job part, but just to stave off, "oh well out here you really can't..." Yes. You can. My ex-husband did $1500/month of business from a rural community without a post office, without a car. He printed off the postage at the library and called for pickup.

 

So, rather than forbid her a license, I say, just stop facilitating the process. She can get a license--with her own money. She can drive a car--her own car. She can get insurance--her own. No problem. Go for it, kidaroo.

 

Rights come with responsibilities. An exceptionally responsible child without a job might get a license and to rent my car. A kid who's talking back and not slowing down on a residential street has a long way to go.

[Joker]

One thing I will ask about the driving is if she is doing that same drive with other family members? Dh, brothers, sisters, grandparents, etc. Is it possible she's told it's okay by one (or nothing is said) but then you get upset? If it's possible she's getting different instructions by different people, I would address that first before deciding no license at all because that could cause her to see you as overprotective instead of her seeing the value in your actions and words.

[OneStepAtATime]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug: 

 

Agree with the others.  I know you are incredibly frustrated and want an apology but that really isn't what I would focus on.  As others have mentioned, forced apologies are worthless and she is a moody teen who probably feels like she did everything right and you were overreacting.  An apology from her at this point would not actually mean anything at all.  

 

She needs more time to gain experience with other drivers in the car, she needs more time to mature, and she probably needs some space to process through everything that happened.  She may be feeling really embarrassed and hurt that you didn't trust her judgement.  Give her time.  Don't expect an apology.  Let her process.  And I agree with others, it might be better not to let her take the test yet.  Don't make it a punishment.  Stay calm.  Expect anger, frustration, sullenness, etc.  But just calmly and rationally explain that you feel she needs more time to improve her driving skills and ability to judge a potentially dangerous situation.  

 

Or do as Binip suggests and tell her she can take the test with her money, drive a car if she is willing to buy one on her own and she can get her own insurance.  As Binip said, rights come with responsible behavior.

 

Hugs and good luck.

[Liz CA]

You cannot force an apology or will likely just get lip service and the heart is not in it - unless you just want to hear the words.

She was feeling a little confident and went the speed limit but it was too fast for the road conditions. She is a beginning driver, she cannot gauge it yet.

She may need more training before the test or - even if she passes the test - you may not want her to drive alone just yet.

I can see that she didn't want to come out for movie time since you were waiting for an apology she was not ready to offer. She probably knows that the gracious thing would have been to listen but now it's too late.

I'd let the whole thing go and focus on more driving practice and casual explanations about road conditions.

[Anne in CA]

The apology is not the point. I would not allow her to test for her licence for at least six months.  I would not let her behind the wheel again for at least six weeks, and then I would make sure that she was incident free for a long time after that. Too many kids I went to high school with are not longer alive because they thought they knew better than the people teaching them to drive. My own dd did not get to test on time because of a slightly similar incident where she almost creamed a BMW in a parking lot making a sharp turn I told her not to make. I grabbed the wheel and instead of admitting I was right she was angry that  I grabbed the wheel. She did not test until she had six months of following directions and driving safely. She also has the sort of personality where she does not apologize. Oh well. The extra practice time did her good. She has been a very responsible driver.

[Tammi K]

I'm feeling cranky tonight, so that is affecting my response.  I feel like I would take away the keys and inform her that she has proven she does not have the maturity to handle a vehicle that can in fact cause people's deaths if handled incorrectly, badly, or immaturely.  She would wait a very long time before she would be permitted to drive again, and her attitude would definitely have to come around.

 

:iagree: This - being said by the mother of 6 - 4 who have their licenses and 1 with a permit, and 1 just about ready to get his permit.   I sympathize but I don't think safe driving is negotiable. Hold your ground, Mom.

[Joanne]

I have not read the others. I have taught 2 to drive. I would forget about the apology. I would remove driving privileges and reschedule the test for 6 months later.

 

Yes. I am serious. If a child I am teaching to drive won't immeduately and without attitude comply in that circumstance, they are not driving. I am not usually like that but for driving (and paying the car insurance) I am.

 

The level of maturity being displayed is not sufficient for the privilage.

[SparklyUnicorn]

She doesn't get it in large part because she's not paying for the car and the car insurance.  I am careful around stuff like pot holes because I don't want to wreck my car because cars are freaking expensive.

 

So I'd be ticked off too.  I don't know what I'd do.

 

 

[creekland]

I'm with the others.  There would be no license for quite some time.  This is a life or death hill to die on - because death could be a reality from an arrogant attitude when driving in a car.

 

I also think having her get a job and working to earn gas/insurance/car payment $$ could be helpful if that's at all possible.

 

I would not expect/demand an apology and I'd probably still let her practice driving IF her attitude changed once she had the chance to process what you'll be discussing with her after having read these responses.

 

If she did it again... then all driving would cease for a bit.  That would prove she's not ready even if she's technically old enough.

[Joanne]

I would probaly add ONE quick comment about how her stubborness and attitude - and the thinking behind it - contributes to the situation and consequences. I would say something about how her choice in attitude will impact her adult life in college and work. But the apology would not be my focus.

[JFSinIL]

She is so not ready to drive yet.  Stand your ground.  Keep the rest of us safe from an unskilled driver.  If she tries to get a license behind your back, make sure you control the keys to your car AND do not let her on your insurance.  Without proof of insurance I don't think she can even get a license, correct?

 

 

[lynn]

No license until she proves herself a safe and responsible driver. Driving is an earned privilege to those willing to listen and drive safely.

[TammyS]

 

 

I feel like this situation needs some consequences.  I am just really bad at deciding what is an appropriate consequence for this.  Any ideas?  Thanks so much.

 

The consequence seems obvious to me, you need to postpone her getting her license.  She is a learner who wouldn't take feedback when it was given and has now had time for reflection, but is STILL not coming around.  That is someone who is too immature to drive.

 

[kroe1]

Your DD was acting passive aggressive and using a vehicle as her weapon. No way would that kiddo drive again as long as I was paying the bills until she has a great big overhaul of her behavior. Even if I needed her to get a license to help with errands and driving siblings, I would not budge.

 

An insured accident will cost, at a minimum, an average of 20% of the car. Add in an ICU stay and there goes the life savings and my future retirement. No way does an irresponsible teenager get to do that to me, even one just having a bad day.

[Chris in VA]

Agreeing with others to wait on the license and even practice driving for a while.

 

I think Minniewannabe hit it on the head about her acting passive agressive. The fact that she sulked all the way home, driving 20 mph in a 35 zone is a great indicator of her unreadiness--it's actually dangerous driving, to drive that much UNDER the speed limit without flashers!

 

It doesn't mean she's not terrific and wonderful, to have a problem with this issue, it just means she's not ready. You can tell her with calm gentleness--she'll still be pissed, most likely, but she won't have grounds to feel unloved. (That's what I always worried about when I had to discipline for something big. YMMV.)

[brehon]

Agreeing with the others. I don't care about the apology and I wouldn't focus on that. Your dd is not ready for the privilege of driving. My kid wouldn't even get the privilege of driving with me or dh in the car at this point.

 

Were I you I wouldn't focus on an apology when I talked to dd. I'd calmly let her know that the consequence of not listening and not driving responsibly for the road and weather conditions is that driving will be put on hold until such time as dd shows she is worthy of the trust needed to operate a vehicle which includes the understanding that passengers in a car may see something the driver doesn't & the driver must listen to & heed what they say.

[brehon]

I wanted to expand a bit on the apology aspect. The reason the apology isn't important to me is that your dd demonstrated by her actions that she doesn't understand one of the most basic tenets of driving: adjust your speed for the conditions you find yourself driving in. Her apologizing to you doesn't really *show* understanding; she would show that by, well, adjusting her speed for the conditions of the day, the road, etc.

 

I wouldn't allow dd to continue driving because her attitude and thoughtlessness puts others at risk and THAT is absolutely unacceptable to me. Once her attitude changed and she consistently demonstrated that she listens to and heeds what you say - about anything, really - then I'd allow the driving practice to resume. Now I'm not draconian and I do allow respectful, adult style disagreement; the key here is respectful. Ignoring someone isn't respectful.

[BlsdMama]

My personal opinion is that if she's mad, she's not sorry.  And if she's not sorry, she doesn't see anything wrong with what she did.  If she doesn't see anything wrong, she won't do anything differently.

 

My car.

My rules.

The end.

 

Honestly, I wouldn't fight.  I wouldn't try to get her to see it my way.  After 2-3 months of no driving, she'll catch on and listen more the next time.  Children.  They are so incredibly bright when they are properly motivated.

 

The more you try to "win" her by cajoling or nag her into believing you, the less she'll absorb when you speak.  So, the best time to speak is when she's receptive.  They become remarkably receptive when they realize  they made a mistake.  In this case, her mistake was thinking she'd get to drive your car and ignore you.  It's okay.  People make mistakes.  They just need to learn from them.

[FriedClams]

She lacks the responsibility to drive. She proved it so many ways: not taking instruction, ignoring you, driving while pouting, unsafe driving, refusing to join the family after, and on and on. You know it. You know what you need to do. Yes, she'll be snitty. Yes, she'll pitch a fit. Tough. This is life our death for her and/or others. I'd seta firm date of no driving at all for 60 days and then, when tempers are calm, make a plan with very clear expectations and consequences. Now, go get some chocolate and give her the news. :-)

[Jyhwkmama]

She is ignoring the Basic Speed Rule. Here is a direct quote from page 46 of the Tennessee Driver's Handbook, bolding mine:

 

Principles of the Basic Speed Rule: 1.Your speed must be careful and prudent. Use skill and good judgment. 2.Your speed must be reasonable and proper, not too fast and not too slow, for any conditions including: • Amount of Traffic - How many cars on the road • Speed of Traffic - How fast or slow it’s moving • Whether Pedestrians are Present - Especially children in school zones or neighborhoods • Surface of the Road - Rough or smooth, paved, gravel, etc. • Width of the Road - One-lane, two-lane, four-lane • Structure of the Road - Straight, curving, bridges, narrow shoulders, etc. • Visibility - How far ahead you can see clearly • Weather Conditions - Rain, snow, ice, fog, etc. • Your Own Driving Ability 3.Do not drive so slowly that you block, hinder, or interfere with other vehicles moving at normal speeds. 4.Your speed must be adjusted to conditions so you can stop within a clear distance ahead. If you drive at a speed that is unsafe for existing conditions in any area, you are violating the basic rule. This applies even if you are driving slower than the posted speed or maximum limit.

 

Until she is able to understand and follow The Basic Speed Rule, she should not be driving.

[Greta]

A responsible driver understands that driving is a lot more than simply getting from point A to point B. It is a life or death responsibility in which you are making decisions not only for yourself, but also your passengers, and other people who happen to be on the same roads at the same time. Until she gets that, and I mean really gets it, she doesn't get to drive. Period. Driving is a privilege, not a right (and frankly I wish that our laws and our driving tests did a better job of reflecting that and weeding out the most irrresponsible and dangerous drivers), and until she has earned that privilege, she gets a bus pass or a bike. I know families who have lost siblings and children because of irreponsible teen drivers who didn't realize just how serious the consequences can be. This is not something to take lightly. As a PP said, this is a hill to die on. You could be saving your daughter's life, or the lives of someone else's kids.

[fairfarmhand]

"Let's Go to the Store!"

 

"Mom, Can I drive?"

 

"Nope."

 

"Lets go to church."

 

"Mom, can I drive?"

 

"Nope."

 

rinse repeat.

 

Finally, she will ask the question. Then you will have the discussion.

 

I have a daughter like this. Until she actively seeks the answer, the answer will not be heard. At the time of the discussion,  I would make it almost a question-answer session rather than a lecture.

 

I might also have a pile of statistics handy about teen drivers and accidents. Also numbers on what it takes to buy a new tire or rims for a tire that is ruined by hitting potholes. Also, numbers on how much insurance may cost baseline for a teen with no driving incidents (my 16 yo adds 35 a month to our insurance with a perfect driving record)

 

I'd remind her that more is at stake though than simply $$$. I'd tell her that a car is a deadly weapon..just as deadly as a gun. Until she demonstrates the maturity to take instruction while behind the wheel and behave with humility, driving will not happen.

 

If she gets a license she will be on your insurance. So that won't happen for awhile. She will probably bow up and pout and sulk. Ignore it.

 

Forget about the apology; The more important lesson is that behavior behind the wheel is not the time for teen sulks and pouts.

[Pippen]

When a similar situation happened at my house, future driver was taken out of the driver's seat. Practice resumed when future driver had a good taste of life without being behind the wheel, and when future driver was again ready to receive instruction respectfully, which in this case was about three weeks. I didn't care if there was a verbal apology--what mattered to me was attitude. It delayed the driver's test by about a month, and that driver had very tight restrictions those first months of driving. The world didn't end.

 

I do think there's something about driving that for some teens contributes in a big way both to a sense of entitlement, plus to an attitude that they're more knowledgeable than mom and dad. A little driving experience and a new driver's license in hand, and they think they're experts.

 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

I would not require her to apologize (and this would not make her a safe driver anyway, it would just be something to make you feel good).

The consequence would be that she needs a longer period of driving instruction and would not be allowed to get her license yet, since she has demonstrated a lack of judgement. She will need to prove herself and earn the right to take the driving test by demonstrating that she is mature enough to drive responsibly.

[Happy]

You've gotten great advice. I send you an extra portion of courage and hard-lineness to do what you know needs to be done--and doing it with a loving, sweet smile, of course.

 

A couple of people mentioned an essay--I think having her research teen driving statistics and the teen driver death rate might be a sobering endeavor.

[strange_girl]

I'm not sure how old your dd is, but...

 

I was 18.5 when I got my license. Ask my mother why :D

 

But by then, I was able to be a good driver. I am now 32, have never gotten a ticket and have never been in an accident. Not saying that has anything to do with me, but it think the extra couple of years definitely helped.

[EKS]

She is obviously not mature enough to be driving on her own yet.  I'd give it another 6 months with no further instances of that sort of behavior before allowing her to get her license.

 

And I wouldn't worry about an apology from her.  That's, frankly, the least of your problems.

[AimeeM]

I would probaly add ONE quick comment about how her stubborness and attitude - and the thinking behind it - contributes to the situation and consequences. I would say something about how her choice in attitude will impact her adult life in college and work. But the apology would not be my focus.

This. If my child had been driving too fast, but was instantly remorseful when I told them to slow down, seemed shaken by the idea of hurting others or damaging property, and hadn't given me attitude, I would be more confident that the mistake wouldn't be repeated, and that my teen would be more mindful of conditions. The attitude implies, to me, that your DD doesn't think she was wrong. That's dangerous.

[elegantlion]

Can you consider having her take driver's instruction from someone else? Perhaps they can could remove the emotionality of the issue for her. Agree with the others, driving is a privilege. Driving in adverse conditions requires more than paying attention to the posted speed limit. 

 

I would take her out to the same road in good weather and calmly discuss the reasons you had for slowing down, things you can clearly see in the daylight and no fog. If she responds with attitude, then agreed she is not ready. 

[Home'scool]

_{Something just .... happens ...... to normal, respectful teenagers when they are being taught to drive. I don't know what it is, but I have never had such attitude from my kids until we entered that phase. And I thank the Lord every day that it is over and they finally have their licenses. Many times I had to make them stop the car and switch so I could drive home. Lots of yelling. Lots of "Whaaat? You are overreacting!!!!" Lots of tears.}

 

_{My sister has two boys. They are the most polite, respectful, well-behaved children I have ever seen. But when she was teaching them how to drive? Ho boy. One time her eldest was going to fast, ran through a red light (he said he didn't notice it) and then side-swiped a construction barrel taking off the side mirror. She was yelling for him to slow down and pull over the whole time. When he did eventually pull over the first thing he said to her was "okay, you really need to calm down." She said her head almost popped off with frustration.}

 

_{Even now when they are 18 and 20 I still cannot even make a comment about their driving without issues. I really don't know what it is but I have heard this lament from many parents.}

[lllll]

..

[Miss Marple]

Oh, I was never so happy as when all my boys were finally licensed and competent to drive (not necessarily accomplished at the same time).

 

 I had a rule that if I told them to do A, B. or C while they were driving and if they did not immediately heed my advice *WITHOUT* an argument, they would forfeit their permit until such time as I felt they were more mature and responsible.  That happened just one time with one son.  That meant he had to pull over right then and allow me to finish the drive.

 

We also agreed that we would discuss the issue when we arrived at a safe place.  My reasoning was that if we were in imminent danger (or in dander of harming another)  I needed this unseasoned driver to do whatever I said without hesitation.   This was non-negotiable.

 

These kids need to understand that they are in control (hopefully) of a deadly weapon.  They need to understand that they could completely turn the course of life for another family.  They need to understand that they are NOT experts simply because they have watched us drive for years.  

 

We also had our boys take a course with a local driving instruction company.  That was a good thing...reinforced what I was teaching at home and gave them a "defensive driver discount" on our insurance.

 

To this day, not one of them have been in an accident (of their fault).  Only one has received a speeding ticket (40 mph in 35 on a back road).  I still occasionally nag when I'm in the car with them, 

 

Your daughter needs an attitude adjustment.  This isn't about her.  It's about the lives of everyone who rides with her and anyone she encounters in the road.  That needs to be understood.  Be the bad guy...it just might save a life.  An apology is an indication of her understanding of the situation.  I don't think she's there yet.  So an apology will make no difference, imo.  REALLY, BE THE ENFORCER!  The rest of the population will thank you.

 

Perhaps she needs to visit the local Emergency Room to see the devastation a stupid accident can cause.  

 

 

[fairfarmhand]

BTW, I think if I remember correctly that a citation when you have your permit affects when you can get your license. So there is that, and she could be going into getting her license with that on her record which will affect her insurance rates.

 

Also, would bring up WHY they call it a LEARNER'S PERMIT!

 

When my dd started driving it was 1. She pays for gas and her part of the insurance herself. If she gets a ticket and her costs go up, she gets to pay the increase. 2. Any damages sustained to the car when she was driving she gets to pay for the repairs (other than things that can't be helped like a flat or somethign) 3, Any tickets, she pays for. 4. If she causes an accident....whoa. it's gonna be bad.

 

A friend of hers almost killed his younger brother by driving like a fool. It happens THAT fast.