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Lang Syne Boardie

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Lang Syne Boardie last won the day on August 28 2018

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  1. 1. Nobody defined real homeschooling as entirely DIY. 2. Nobody said that anyone who outsources a high school chem class is contributing to the downfall of homeschooling. That's a rather hysterical straw man at which to start swinging. I made the point that part of the seismic shift that I thought we were discussing (one topic, many aspects) is that the homeschoolers who DO teach high school at home are now freaks. Practically outcasts. That's a heckuva change. Literally nobody thinks that it's bad to outsource. Since the 1980s we have been co-op'ing and hiring people for high school courses. John Holt was the first to recommend it, if I'm going to prove this by a date. Literally the 1980s. But for people to treat you like a leper if you think you are capable of teaching Biology and Algebra (even though you've proved it multiple times, or a lot of homeschool parents do have degrees in various subjects), that is a giant shift. Which is the topic of this thread. I also said that I've graduated a tutored student, so obviously I am not against outsourcing, when I have been the one to whom the teaching has been outsourced. @maize, I specifically said that I was not calling out any particular poster here, regarding the two hours for high school followed by a life of video games, but that I had seen it on these forums aplenty, and in other homeschool discussions. As @Farrar and @Lecka explained, it's part of addressing the incorrect assumption that two hours of learning time is sufficient for high school. You were not quoted nor addressed, and your situation was not discussed, so there's no need to take it personally. As far as projecting, we are addressing conversations we've witnessed and been involved in, our own personal experiences, and our personal witness as to the changes in homeschooling over the literal decades that we have homeschooled. We are combining and extrapolating, and using shorthand phrases, to make points about the topic at hand. That is not projection.
  2. One thing that gets lost or overlooked in the old school/new philosophies discussions is this: We old-timers actually do know about out-of-the-box learners and special needs. I know that I, and many other older homeschooling parents here, did not start homeschooling *just* because of religious or political bias. Did I take the opportunity to share my beliefs and opinions with my children, of course. But a common realization amongst those of my ilk is that we could have had (and sometimes did have) political reversals and religious conversions over the decades, and still kept homeschooling. We would homeschool, and we would homeschool *these* children, no matter what ideology we were operating under. Which means we had reasons for thinking our children needed to learn outside of school. You have to understand that those reasons address all ends of all spectrums. We have profoundly gifted children, 2E children, children with dyslexia, ADHD, autism...this cadre of vintage hs'ers is not about buying the most rigorous, most official, most advanced curriculum and marching all the children through it, a grade level at a time! We know the standard classical curriculum. And we know how to adapt it or ditch it, as our children require. We learned how to calculate hours spent on out-of-the-box obsessions (for purposes of adding a credit to the transcript), and how to write course descriptions for courses not found in any school. More importantly, we learned how to recognize the learning process, and give our children credit (school credit AND respect) for their hard work that has advanced their own potential, whether they struggled over Latin or over life skills. The aforementioned book that somebody wanted to write, should definitely have a chapter or two about that! We did it. We are still doing it. We are classical home educators not brick and mortar school administrators. This is the homeschool difference, and we're not going to lose that, just because the conversations about education and learning have somewhat devolved recently. @8FillTheHeart, @Farrar and others are saying that the learning goes on, for a full school day, *whatever the learning entails.* This business of 2 hours of bookwork followed by 12 hours of video games, we are NOT buying it. I'm not calling out any one poster. I haven't closely perused every post in this thread. But I have seen that description, on the WTM forums and elsewhere, usually when someone is worried about their kid's lack of ambition and his social deficits. As the conversation progresses, we learn that he does two hours of something academic, and then he plays video games because he doesn't really have interests, hobbies, or friends. I am really not going to apologize for disagreeing with that approach to raising and educating a child.
  3. I know of zero homeschooling families IRL who do not outsource for high school. I am literally the only one in my sphere. My son is in an activity with a huge number of kids, half of whom are homeschoolers, and it's a high-achieving, competitive kind of thing. These are not slacker families, as far as the extracurriculars go. They tend to be mostly on the affluent end of the scale. 100% of the homeschooling parents have told me that they teach practically nothing in high school - it's all online and co-op. So I have checked out the co-ops; I've known about them for years. They have nothing to offer gifted students or non-evangelical families. They cost a truckload of money. And why would I use them, anyway, for this youngest son, when I *did the work* (as @lewelma describes) of learning to teach high schoolers, already? (And I've graduated four - three of my own, and a tutored student.) Why in the world would I send him to a de facto school, paying money I don't even have, to take courses that are inferior to my courses, with students who are not academic peers? Also, he has no interest in co-op. Like his siblings, he prefers to do academics at home, in our family's style, and then go out into the world at the end of the day. It's a working formula, and we'd gain nothing by changing it. Yet I have quickly learned to stop telling anyone that I teach him myself. I seemed to be coming across as a poor hillbilly who can't afford to hire degreed teachers to teach Apologia science and Write Shop (for high school) at co-op, and people seemed to think my son must be backward or anti-social. Biases confirmed: As soon as I shut up about our method, in the homeschool mom chats, my son was perceived to be outgoing, friendly, capable, mature, intelligent...because he is. As soon as I stopped identifying as a homeschooler, I began to find friends among the adults who have similar interests and values (you know, as you do, out in the world, sans labels and cliques). I usually don't even tell people that I'm a homeschool mom, anymore. And now, even among homeschoolers, I am not going to say anything about HOW we do it, even if I admit to homeschooling. If there's an independent homeschooler out there, who would like to know how to teach classical high school subjects at home, I have no idea how she's going to find me. Which is a loss, for her and for me. If she exists.
  4. @happysmileylady, obviously, everyone understands the meaning of your phrase about easier not necessarily being better, so there was no need to explain your verbiage. But thank you for outlining some of our opinions on the topic at hand. On one hand, childcare has always been a struggle. On the other hand, anyone who thinks that today's scenario is the same as for any other generation, is not paying attention. Tax structures, college costs (including parental student loans), health care, inflation, wage stagnation, all of these are moved goalposts. It's a different world, requiring different solutions. "Working families" - I don't really believe you need this spelled out, but just in case, I will explain that I am using that expression within the context of this discussion, to differentiate between families that have all parents working full-time (with an understanding that there are sole breadwinner, single parents as well as two-income, two-parents-working families) and families that have a parent who can provide childcare at home and/or have a relative who will do it for discounted or free.
  5. What does that mean, in the context of this discussion? Do you think it's preferable for working families to have to struggle to afford before and afterschool childcare, or for children to be in a latchkey situation for years of their childhood, or for families to remain in poverty because they can't afford for both parents to work...? I'm not assuming what you meant; I'm outlining some of the alternatives to an extended school day (and the situation that we currently have). I'm not assuming, I'm asking: For *whom* should *what* be harder instead of easier?
  6. I think you must have been very busy for the past little while, if you are only just arriving here today. 😞 Or perhaps your neck of the woods still has enough well-functioning families to make one hope for a future...I saw the writing on the wall two years ago, and it did start with local observation. I thought our lack of regulation had led to a breakdown, but hoped that things were better elsewhere. Then I began to watch online and realized I was looking at a genuine, seismic shift.
  7. We had a potluck for one of our kids' activities this weekend. 2 of 3 of my family attending were not even eating, but I'm old-school about potlucks, so I took several (frugal) large dishes, anyway. I like to take cheese, fruit, and veg of some kind, because people who would like some plain foods are usually out of luck. I left before the meal, but it did NOT look like enough food. I honestly do not care if people would like to contribute a bucket of KFC chicken and store-bought salad and cookies. I do care that somebody is trying to assemble a meal for 100 when families of 4 to 12 people (seriously) each brought a bag of potato chips and some grapes. The volume you bring has to somewhat match the volume you will consume, which is how you get basically enough of most food categories for everyone and a few leftovers. Not only did people bring inadequate food for their own family, but as many in the thread have mentioned, many who promised a certain dish decided not to come, and didn't tell the organizers until the last minute. They were glad to see my extra veggie and cheese trays. I've decided that there are now fewer eating occasions that I'm willing to host - a dinner party, a backyard BBQ, or any other party which I am personally hosting (solo). OR I wouldn't mind helping with a prepared banquet, dinner, or reception for an organization that is paid in advance. (Whether it's funds allocated or a collection taken.) I would be happy to work with a committee on such-and-such an event with X amount in the budget, so we can make choices and create a good spread. I just don't have the nerves required to set out not-enough-food for a huge gathering of people. Honestly, the last big family dinner went no better. I ended up cooking an awful lot, and then washing all the dishes, without the fun (and control) of just hosting my own dinner party. I also don't see any reason to continue traditions that don't work for people anymore. If it's going to stress everybody out to do a potluck - to the point that they have difficulty even getting to the store for the deli veggie tray or whatever, why do it? If it's just a matter of feeding people, let them buy in, and the organizers can order something (or let someone who has time and interest arrange for a more complete meal). If it's a potluck amongst foodies, because they enjoy cooking and want to share, that group may still do potlucks. The old rules will still work.
  8. My uncle made an oyster dressing that was amazing. It had mushrooms - usually wild morels - and cornbread, and the usual aromatics and some herbs. This was 30 years ago, and I've never seen another oyster dressing that has looked good to me, ever since.
  9. I think he's done. You can't have your entire schtick be about mocking your demographic of origin for its hypocrisy, while having been a hypocrite, yourself, the whole time. It's an overall fail. I say this as a former (very mild) fan who did think he was funny. I wouldn't have paid to go to his show, but I watched his youtube videos...so it's not like I'm a card-carrying, profitable fan who will be missed...but for those of us who mildly liked him, what we liked was the premise that religious insufferability is an unnecessary show, when most people are just people and all alike, and you don't have to be religious to be good. However, we still think you have to be good, to be good. KWIM? We are not going to be fans of a bad guy. Always glad when people reform, if they do, for their sakes and ours. But a lot of us (especially women), while we want everyone to be well, are still going to look for our entertainment elsewhere, in the future.
  10. This kind of thing was my life, for years, with extended family. It's not a problem now because none of them speak to me anymore (for other reasons), so keep that in mind when you read my opinion: I would say this: "Thank you for letting me know about the pinworms. I know that it's not a big deal to you, but it is to me; I don't want to risk an illness in our household. I'm sorry that it's been so long since we've all been together, and I hope we'll see you when everybody's well, but I'm canceling this playdate. Hope you get over the pinworms soon." They won't like it. They won't like you. But guess what you won't have?? Pinworms. You know what, I have some regrets about my estranged family situation. But these stupid things, when they wanted to bring parasites and stomach flus and firearms and god-knows-what to my house, and I decided to be unpopular and said no...I don't regret that.
  11. I live in a low income area, and I have a ton of questions. 1. I understand that the plan does NOT call for teachers to extend their day. If they did that, they'd have to be paid more, they'd have no time to prep lessons or grade, their health would suffer, and then there'd be another at-risk demographic: the families of teachers! That doesn't seem to be what they have in mind. 2. Our school buildings are old. I can't imagine the cost to fit them out with extended services, even if the personnel could be hired. 3. The #1 way for low income mothers to work, and stay home with their own infants/toddlers and preschoolers, is to run in-home daycares. They have learned the game and done the work of getting licensed.. In a way, it's been good for the community, because people really do work together. Seriously, we are talking about a LOT of women's businesses. If they are not needed because all the children go to school, they will lose their income, and their ability to stay home with their babies. (They stay home because they can't afford infant childcare costs, themselves, with their low education and low paying job options.) So... a. what happens to these businesses and to these women's earning potential, and b. what happens to the babies? If the very same single and low income mothers have the very same problems with childcare for their little ones, will there be an 8-6 infant daycare and preschool at the public school?
  12. I've been looking at The Good and the Beautiful's history program. I see that the idea is to extend the pre-K to 8th curriculum to high school, by adding some extra reading and projects. But going by the samples, I do not see The Big Book of History Stories and the small passages in the curriculum as sufficient for high school. The spine for the family, The Big Book of History Stories, is meant for ages 7 to 12. The 10th to 12th grade supplement includes some short primary source documents, but most of the extra reading is below high school level, and most of the writing is summarizing an excerpt. High school requires a bit more. Easy Peasy is also very, very lightweight...it seems that he is doing much lower level work than he is capable of, and he does not grasp third grade grammar. You might need to totally overhaul curriculum. If he were somehow flying through an entire *high school level* program in three hours, we would look at enrichment with electives, or outsourcing, or finding new sports and community options. But first, it sounds like he needs to get up to grade level. If he had more typical courses, he would not get done in 2.5 to 3 hours. And then if he had a sport, a choir, or whatever, he'd be down to a more reasonable amount of free time for dumb YouTube videos! As the mother of four kids, some with ADHD, I am hearing you about the other children being a hindrance to your being able to concentrate on ninth grade. That's not something that can just be ignored, as you are developing strategies for getting your ds14 caught up. Do you have a school option, other than the co-op? For homeschool curriculum, I also hear you about the financial costs. The most frugal plan that is still rigorous, that I know of, would involve The Well-Trained Mind and some free, vintage English/LA texts. Would you have any interest in learning about those options?
  13. Does he have any diagnosed learning differences? Has he always homeschooled? What are you doing for Science, History, Math, Spanish, and English? I am sensing that he is not pursuing the typical 9th grade studies, exactly, but it also seems that there might be reasons for that. Also, I wonder if he has any sports or extracurricular activities - he's kind of got too much of the day left, at the end of school time. If you feel like talking it all out, we are here. I can tell you that this board is very understanding about 14yo boys. Any of us who have hs'ed them, are un-shockable and able to discuss it.
  14. Thank you. I'm sorry for deleting, but I realized that I had been sent a one DAY sample, not a one week sample, so I was worried that I was being unfair. I meant to look further, but all of my adult children came home and I had to run! I wanted to search the sample week for these concerns: 1. Were scientific and historical facts and perspectives/biases ever cited or supported, or did the lesson ever present multiple perspectives or any primary source documents? 2. Did she ever offer any instruction at all, for writing assignments? 3. There was no connection or resemblance to Charlotte Mason philosophy or method, in the one day sample. This is where I thought I might have missed something, by not seeing the full week. 4. Lastly, I wondered if the week sample had been edited more thoroughly. I thought it possible that the one day sample had been put up too hastily. But even without seeing the week sample, I am firm on my opinion that this author is not qualified to write educational materials because of her deficiency in English. In the one day sample, I saw problems with antecedents, clauses, prepositions, word order, and worse. Someone upthread said that they didn't require extensive English skills written into their unit studies, because their child is proficient in English. I would be concerned that after a year with this author, he would NOT be. This author's type of errors are very contagious, as anyone who has educated children from pre-K through grade 12 would know. The pervasive errors were very distracting and unacceptable to me, and my credentials are only that I majored in English in high school, and then taught grammar and composition to six children (using professional materials). And again, this author is well-intentioned, obviously, but she did not invent unit studies, nor did she invent the concept of teaching the entire family together when possible. For evidence, I would submit this incomplete list: KONOS Heart of Wisdom My Father's World Tapestry of Grace Biblioplan and probably thousands of stand-alone unit studies for multiple levels, that were available on Currclick and are now available on Teachers Pay Teachers, that have been churned out on the regular by homeschool moms since approximately 1985. I would hope that this author would contribute her artistic skills where applicable, and I understand her podcast is well-received! That's wonderful. But for those looking for appropriate lessons for their children, I would give Gather 'Round a pass. If you want unit studies for your whole family, those are available. If you would like to create your own, it's easy to find some guidance. If I have alarmed you about English skills, perhaps because you didn't notice the problems, this forum can recommend many excellent options.
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