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creekland

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creekland last won the day on November 29 2017

creekland had the most liked content!

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About creekland

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    Retired homeschooler!
  • Birthday 08/23/1967

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  • Gender
    Female
  • Interests
    Travel, geocaching, hiking, scuba, anything outdoors!

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  • Biography
    Married for 29+ years and have 3 sons (26, 24, 22).
  • Location
    Pennsylvania
  • Interests
    Travel, geocaching, hiking, scuba, anything outdoors!
  • Occupation
    Substitute teach math/science courses at our local public high school.

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  1. I agree. I don't think there should be just one approach and expect it to work for everyone. My preference in life is to offer incentives of various sorts and only end up with punishment if there's no other recourse. That approach works super well for me in school. There my view is to educate on how to review ideas/theories so more folks don't end up believing nonsense simply because they read it on the internet. I don't see that presumption. I think the anti-vax folks are just the ones who turn people off due to their faulty reasoning, and esp in times of epidemics, how much at risk they put everyone else. I think everyone understands those who have real health issues. I think everyone would want to help those who have other obstacles (like cost or access). Some states are better at that than others. Plenty of places offer free flu shots. My state offers free recommended vaccines at our county health office if one doesn't have insurance to cover them. There's still the issue of getting there. I know my school tries to help people when they see families in need. Otherwise, I know plenty who get annoyed when someone with the flu shows up to work. They are only spreading their germs and no one I know wants to catch it. It's that same annoyance with those who chose not to get vaxes when something like measles is around. The underlying (often spoken out loud) comment is STAY HOME if you end up sick or think you might have been exposed. With measles... really, it's not that tough to get a vaccine if one wants it. As Quill pointed out, the problem with many is inertia.
  2. Education is also incredibly important. We killed three suspected rabid (wild) critters near our farm in 2018. None had suspected human or tame critter contact, so we just buried them and warned all the neighbors. However, before we shot the last one (groundhog) I took a video of him stumbling around so I could show our new neighbors with 4 young children. With rabies in our area it's incredibly important that kids know not to help the "poor wounded animal," esp if it happens to a feral cat or something they think is tame and in need of help. I'm not sure if the parents had ever seen anything like it either. I've since shown the video at school too. Education is important. Rabies is deadly. Keeping pets vaxed is important. Knowing to seek help is too. Folks don't know what they haven't been exposed to. Share when we can. I'm still 100% in favor of vaxes for those who are able to have them, esp for folks who choose public schools and similar and even more especially when there are epidemics about. Eradicate the diseases (or help our bodies fend off tetanus/flu).
  3. But if the anti-vax folks convince the masses that vaccines are evil, it's not such a hyperbole. Yes, we have better medical care now - the same medical care that saved the lad with tetanus, but do we really want to count on that when there's a safe, better alternative? Airplanes and cars. The car is more familiar and one feels "safe" (at least until there's an accident), but the airplane is far and wide the safer alternative even with two recent crashes in the world. And may the newer tb vax in the works be truly better than the current one. Any killer disease eradicated is a good thing.
  4. And like vaxs vs disease, some folks are more afraid of airplanes than cars! Both sets of reasoning boggle the mind if one looks at statistics.
  5. And before the measles vaccine came about? Should we go back to the days where it killed approx 2.6 million every year? The measles vax is more reliable than the tb vax. I believe a new tb one is in the works though. "Before the introduction of measles vaccine in 1963 and widespread vaccination, major epidemics occurred approximately every 2–3 years and measles caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year. Approximately 110 000 people died from measles in 2017 – mostly children under the age of 5 years, despite the availability of a safe and effective vaccine. Measles is caused by a virus in the paramyxovirus family and it is normally passed through direct contact and through the air. The virus infects the respiratory tract, then spreads throughout the body. Measles is a human disease and is not known to occur in animals. Accelerated immunization activities have had a major impact on reducing measles deaths. During 2000– 2017, measles vaccination prevented an estimated 21.1 million deaths. Global measles deaths have decreased by 80% from an estimated 545 000 in 2000* to 110 000 in 2017." https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles
  6. I think such discussions are incredibly useful TBH. I'm back on the road today, but will toss in a few of my off the cuff thoughts quickly. 1) Measles - which comes with mumps and rubella. These diseases are so contagious and dangerous - esp measles since it destroys the immune system for a time period. It's really, really important for those who have compromised immune systems that these are eliminated. A quick google search shows that approx 100,000+ folks died from measles in 2017 (worldwide). A good number of these are likely to be due to that destruction of the immune system. Folks in countries where it's been mostly eliminated have quickly forgotten the problems this one can cause and in today's age where it's easily possible to jet from one place to another, keeping it contained to other countries isn't always possible (as we can see). 2) Pertussis - which comes with tetanus and diphtheria. Whooping cough is around and very annoying. Both my mom and dh caught it a few years ago. My mom because she didn't know to update her vax. Dh because when he updated his tetanus they didn't have it with the pertussis and it later got forgotten. Both will tell you it's one you don't want to catch - along with all family members who need to listen to the endless coughing. (My mom broke ribs.) If my mom caught it now, it'd be the end of her. My lads and I had the DPT vax updated and none of us caught it even with dh living with us. I'd say those two are the most important IMO. I also want to keep polio vaxes around because I personally know someone who was in a wheelchair for life from polio and don't wish that on anyone. She told me she thought of herself as a lucky one because others she knew IRL died from it. A quick google search shows this disease is hopefully on it's way out. Let's keep it that way, but TBH, right now I wouldn't worry about those who don't have it in the US walking among us - even for my mom. Personally, I wish everyone without a serious reaction would also get the flu vaccine. I know it's not as helpful as the others, but I've seen way too many stories of people who have lost loved ones, including kids, and including one that hit our church's prayer chain this year where a single mom lost her only child to the flu and her dh had died from an accident. It's way too sad listening to all these folks afterward saying, "I wish..." My heart breaks. If your loved one dies anyway, at least you know you did all you could instead of wishing you had tried it. Flu is also super contagious, but TBH, with my mom, it's one we try hard to have her avoid because there's such a low vaccination rate and the vaccine isn't as helpful as the others. I'm fine with folks splitting vaxs or even delaying vaxs for a little bit if they feel it's better, but watch where you go and in cases of epidemics nearby (as with measles now in many states - mumps in Philly), stay home.
  7. Banking may be a good example of proving who I am, but it doesn't explain why I need to have/show proof of insurance every time my car gets inspected or reregistered. I've yet to need to wear that on my sleeve in order to get in my car and drive. When we applied for aid for college we had to show/prove a lot of things regarding finances. Of course, we had the choice of being full pay or skipping college instead. My lads had to have certain vaccinations then too (meningitis along with the basics). Medical Missions lad needed some to travel overseas and work in a clinic. The other option was not to go. If you seriously believe having to show proof of some basics is a tiny step away from patches, well, I just don't know what to say other than I completely disagree and find that thinking way out there. I wear ID every day I go to work - in a public school. Every kid has ID. Car insurance has to be shown. Membership cards to clubs - even grocery/retail stores - need to be shown or scanned. It hasn't hurt anyone yet, nor do I ever expect it to. I don't spend even a minute worrying about it or Big Brother. I consider having healthy folks vaccinated good for all of us. If someone doesn't care to do it and has no valid health reason, then stay out of the public - esp if there's an epidemic going around. The rest of us and the immunocompromised folks don't have to suffer from faulty "scientific" reasoning. My mom with her end stage cancer or kids at school who have cancer shouldn't have to worry about measles in public places. The measles vaccine is very effective.
  8. Wealthy people everywhere have always had more choices than the masses or poor. It's been that way since the beginning of time and I can't imagine anything changing it in the near future. In your example, yes, they can afford home care, etc. Such is life. If the masses can't or choose not to, there's no reason they should be able to put others at risk, esp since the "scientific" reasoning many use is, well, not scientific. If education were all it took, there wouldn't be a problem. There is a problem. Other methods that protect the masses have to be adopted. If people want to isolate themselves, fine. If they don't or can't, the health of the masses trumps the choice of the individual to put folks at risk. There are plenty of kids who die from the flu each year. Most parents I've heard from wish they had gotten the vax in hindsight. Do-overs aren't possible though. With any vaccine there's a risk either way, but a much greater risk not vaccinating. The vast, vast majority of people have nothing but some temporary side effects from any vaccine. Right now Temple U has a massive mumps outbreak - over 100 cases. Roughly 2000 students updated their vaccine this past week (news story on TV). I bet those 100+ wish they had done it earlier! Doubt anyone has had a serious issue from the vaccine. Plenty have needlessly missed classes and dealt with the pain, etc, from the disease.
  9. Some choices are difficult, but yes, there is a choice. And in an epidemic situation, yes people can be banned from public places of all sorts. It's happened throughout US history. I've yet to hear of any court case regarding it, though feel free to link one if there's one out there. Quarantine signs used to be put on family's doors, etc. No one is banning anyone from a place of worship in a non-epidemic "worry" situation that I've seen.
  10. Have they said folks can't open their own business - perhaps online if needed? Any choice humans make comes with restrictions. Places of work often dictate clothing, work hours, language that can be used, cleanliness requirements, and more. Folks can truly choose not to work there if they don't like the rules. If making that choice means they can't come up with something else sustainable, then they might have to modify their standards on whatever it was they had issues with, but that's how life works. Dh owns his own company. He gets to make the rules. 😉 That's always a choice others can make too. (But even then, he does what is needed sometimes - vs wanted - because it works better for clients/income.)
  11. I haven't seen where anyone has forced vaxs on folks, though maybe if one considers military members deployed overseas but in signing up these folks sign away their lives (BTDT). Otherwise, it's always choices. If you want to work here or attend here or go here, etc, then these are the requirements. It's really not any different than traveling in that aspect. Some countries require proof of vax in order to enter. One can always opt not to work/attend/go. It gets a little trickier when one is talking about kids. Are they truly their parent's property even when the parents make bad decisions? Our society has said "no" when abuse or neglect is concerned. So far, medical decisions are on the "varies" side. When a kid dies from something fixable and the parents opted not to get help (relatively recent case of this happening with pneumonia in PA) the parents were convicted, but I don't think it's happened yet when unvaxed kids die from something preventable. The flu shot doesn't bring charges with death, but OTOH, losing your child is quite the punishment. http://www.witf.org/news/2018/04/parents-spared-jail-time-in-2016-pneumonia-death-of-girl.php
  12. Really? I've had to produce my passport and/or other forms of identification many times I choose to do things (even banking) or go somewhere. Haven't noticed any ill effects yet. I carry identification on me pretty much all the time, esp since I drive. I even have to have proof of insurance when I drive - still hasn't hurt me at all to have it and produce it when asked.
  13. Interesting read, though I'll admit I skipped a few pages considering how long it is. I'll just add it boggles my mind that anyone without a known allergic reaction or compromised immune system would avoid vaccines. I think it's far more of a "rebellion" attitude than anything at all health/science related. The same people, if vaccinations were reserved for an elite class of some sort, would be totally up in arms about it and trying to get them via any method they could. Personally I'm glad I can cut myself on our farm and not worry about tetanus or whether I cleaned my wound properly. I'm glad I kept up on my pertussis vaccine and missed getting Whooping Cough when my mom and dh got it (him because they were out of DPT vax when he updated tetanus). I don't want anyone getting polio and risking life in a wheelchair like an older friend I had in my younger years. I don't feel anyone needs their immune system messed up for years by measles. And if someone is so sure the Gov't or big Pharma is out to get us by trying to nip these things that can be nipped in the bud? Yes, stay in your house. Big Brother is watching you outside, after all! (I have no problem with bans, other than I think adults without vaccines should be banned in public places too - not just kids - when there's an epidemic around. Other folks shouldn't have to suffer from anti-vaxxers actions.)
  14. I'm back to visiting again due to contact I found today from a friend. Guess which thread caught my eye? 😉 Creekland is the name of our pony farm. We've cut down a lot since my farm hands lads moved out, but we still have 6 after just selling a yearling today. At our high point we had 28. My avatar comes from our passion... we also just returned from a trip with med school lad to the Dominican Republic over his spring break - found a nice AirBnB in Bayahibe so were able to do things, but avoid the resorts, etc. Fun stuff Creekland style. Yes, the lad still juggles. He showed me some juggling rat traps and chainsaws he'd love to add to his knives and fire torches... His birthday is coming. We'll see. He's also doing extremely well in med school, so never let anyone tell you homeschoolers can't get there just in case anyone still believes that sort of thing. In general my lads are finished with college now - youngest is even getting married this June. Oldest is already married. Time flies. Enjoy the journey with your kids!
  15. Which is why I tell people to ask (file an appeal). We didn't think it would work either, but it did. Then we thought it might work where middle son was a junior because he had established himself well there with a high GPA, research, being an RA, and oodles more. It would make sense that they would want to "keep" him able to come, but we didn't think it would work for my incoming Freshman lad at his school because they had no particular reason to "need" him. He wasn't even in their Honors College or signed up for an unusual major. It worked at both. I definitely can't say it will work for everyone - or anyone - else, but IME when one has something outside the "norm" it's worth asking about. If we had gone off the folks saying "it won't work" my lads would each have had a year off (which was our plan for either/both had it not worked out). The first school was a CSS school. The second was a Fafsa school. Our main income comes from being self-employed, and of course, we own our farm. We're about as atypical as one can get except we're not divorced.
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