Excused from PE- substitutions?

[Soror]

What would you expect for a kid excused from PE (doctor's note)?

My kid has been assigned to do a 5 paragraph essay every day. This seems excessive to me and like the teacher (who has been harassing my kid about not participating) is getting back at my kid. 

I've not dealt with this before so I have no idea what to expect so maybe my expectations are off.

[happi duck]

What age?  I think in high school that was the norm to write about a health or sport topic.

[KSera]

Yikes. That seems really excessive to me as well. How long is the excuse for? When I was in school, I just had to watch when I was excused from PE for an injury. It seems reading on a fitness topic could be a possibility, with maybe an occasional essay on what is being read, but any more than one a week seems really over the top. Is there anything physical your kid is able to do, like walking? 

[prairiewindmomma]

Writing that much every day is crazy.  During covid, when PE was shut down, my kid had to write a researched 5 paragraph essay a week on a discussion question.  When my kid missed due to sickness, it was a makeup of 30 minutes of exercise of their choice. They could totally just do hand weights, or yoga breathing, or whatever to accommodate the situation that granted the doctor's note. They were given a few weeks to make it up.

[mommyoffive]

I think the age matters a lot in this. 

I haven't ever had a kid in brick and mortar school, but my kids in public school virtually.  One of the PE things my high school and middle school can pick from is a sports related one.  So they have to track their private sports hours and keep a journal.  I think they have to do more things than that sometimes too.  If you just choose regular pe then you have to do the activities they ask you to do, tests, journal, things like that.  I don't think it is off based for someone in high school to have to do some work for PE if they are excused, because they are doing it for credit.

[Bootsie]

I would need more information to know whether I thought it was excessive.  Like--what grade is this?  How long is the  child unable to participate--a few days, a week, a month?  How long does the class meet for--an hour?  What kind of essay is this--something the child has to do research about, or something that is more experience-based so the main task is writing?  How is the essay graded--more for completion or is the expectation that it is highly polished?

[Dmmetler]

The years I didn't have a separate adaptive PE class, I was expected to dress out, do what I could reasonably do physically (usually stretching and warm ups-sometimes more if it was something more individual), and help out-things like keeping score in games, or managing equipment. I also took all written tests. (I had adaptive PE in my IEP, but some years it worked for me to do it with the life skills class, and some years the teacher just had to adapt for the days that I wasn't with the PT.)

 

I will also say that I was excused from sex ed by parental request (still annoyed at my mom for that one), and those assignments were pretty writing heavy.  It definitely felt like the teacher was sending a message that "Yeah, you can choose to opt your kid out, but I don't have to make it easy on them!". 

 

[Amy in NH]

I require(d) my home educated kids to do a gross motor activity of their choosing.  Sometimes it was a sports team, other times it was fencing club or climbing gym.  I hated gym class (PE) in school, but the requirements in many schools now allow an alternative such as sports participation or even dance classes outside of school to count for credit if a log and perhaps a research paper were included.

A 5-paragraph essay per day seems excessive, but I'm sure it's meant to minimize the time a student is taking off from class.

If my kid hated PE so much they were not participating when they were attending, and then avoiding class, I'd work with the school to find an alternative way to meet that credit requirement.  Because physical education is a legal requirement in my state.

[73349]

I think the assignment should take the same length of time as the PE class does. The problem with 5-paragraph essays every day is that the student doesn't have enough background knowledge to do them without reading articles or watching videos first.

I would have the student work for the length of the class period and see how the feedback is on the first couple of assignments.

[Soror]

Kid is 9th.

I obviously expect some kind of work to be done as a substitute but not a 5 paragraph essay. That is more than any of their other classes expect in a day, including English. A kid shouldn't be punished because they are having issues. They've been struggling through for the last month but the teacher wouldn't stop pushing them and blowing them off so I finally got an excuse.

Kid has an excuse because of physical issues. We hope those will resolve within a month or so but don't know.

My understanding is that it is random topics to write about each day- yesterday was, "How dies dressing out for PE help you succeed in life?"

I'm all for physical activity but sometimes people can't, that isn't their fault. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Soror

[catz]

In high school?  I mean I hope most high schoolers could write that amount comfortably during a class period so it doesn't strike me as particularly over the the top?  If research and citations were expected, I'd think that was a lot to expect daily.  But to produce basically a page and a half of writing for a 14+ in 45 minutes to an hour doesn't seem excessive to me unless a kid had a writing related IEP or something along those lines. 

I guess I'd expect them to be given something to do that would take a class period or a little shy of that to get done.

[Pawz4me]

4 minutes ago, Soror said:

Kid is 9th.

I obviously expect some kind of work to be done as a substitute but not a 5 paragraph essay. That is more than any of their other classes expect in a day, including English. A kid shouldn't be punished because they are having issues. They've been struggling through for the last month but the teacher wouldn't stop pushing them and blowing them off so I finally got an excuse.

Kid has an excuse because of physical issues. We hope those will resolve within a month or so but don't know.

My understanding is that it is random topics to write about each day- yesterday was, "How dies dressing out for PE help you succeed in life?"

I'm all for physical activity but sometimes people can't, that isn't their fault. 

That's ridiculous, IMO.

Sorry you're having to deal with this.

[Soror]

Class is 50is minutes but they don't spend it all in class as there is time for getting dressed an changed at the beginning and end.

[Kanin]

A five paragraph essay each DAY? That's horrible! Is the student supposed to read something and respond, or what...?

Does the student get feedback? If not, then the assignment seems pretty pointless to me. Just busywork. 

There's got to be some kind of adapted PE stuff that could be done to accommodate physical issues. Like someone mentioned above, mindfulness or meditation... or maybe they could have a research project to work on long term (school lunches around the country? the fight over nutrition in school lunches? screen time vs exercise? etc, etc), but not a random essay every day! That sounds excruciating and way more work than the other kids have to do. At least a research project would have some value and could perhaps be presented to other kids.

[Kanin]

10 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

In high school?  I mean I hope most high schoolers could write that amount comfortably during a class period so it doesn't strike me as particularly over the the top?  If research and citations were expected, I'd think that was a lot to expect daily.  But to produce basically a page and a half of writing for a 14+ in 45 minutes to an hour doesn't seem excessive to me unless a kid had a writing related IEP or something along those lines. 

 

Yeah, but there's a difference between a page and a half of writing... like stream of consciousness/journaling type writing, vs. an essay where you have to pick a topic, figure out how to organize, then write... that takes a lot of time.  

[TABmom]

A 5 paragraph essay on “why dressing out for PE helps you succeed in life” is insane. I would be talking to that teacher. 

[DawnM]

10 minutes ago, Soror said:

My understanding is that it is random topics to write about each day- yesterday was, "How dies dressing out for PE help you succeed in life?"

I'm all for physical activity but sometimes people can't, that isn't their fault. 

That is the dumbest topic ever......

 

 

 

[DawnM]

3 minutes ago, TABmom said:

A 5 paragraph essay on “why dressing out for PE helps you succeed in life” is insane. I would be talking to that teacher. 

Sounds to me like something that needs to go over the teacher.   It is obviously a punishment and a belittling.

[Melissa Louise]

Can he be proactive and suggest a PE related research topic, culminating in a presentation? 

The five P essay daily, on an inane topic, is a punishment and waste of learning time. Imo. 

[mmasc]

Sounds like a combo of busy work + punishment to me. 

[Storygirl]

At our school, the policy is to take a complaint to the teacher first, then if it is not resolved, bring it to someone in administration (principal or vice principal). So I would politely email the gym teacher, saying that this seemed excessive and more like punishment than a substitute activity. Then, if the response was inadequate (which I would expect), I would forward the email thread to the principal and ask for him/her to meet with you and the teacher to discuss this.

If there is an IEP involved, I would include the IEP case manager on any emails.

[happi duck]

Given the topic example the "teacher" is being a jerk.

I assumed topics of an opinion nature based on activity, sports, nutrition etc.

"What are some ways to be active at home?"

"Describe how you might prepare for a hike."

[Storygirl]

I did report a problem with a teacher to our principal at the beginning of the year. In our case, the teacher made an inappropriately rude comment about my child's work. The principal admonished the teacher and personally apologized to me, and he made the teacher apologize to my son. So taking things up the chain can have an effect.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Storygirl

[kristin0713]

I had to do this in high school, but it was two essays over the course of one semester.  I was allowed to use the library to research and write during class time and IIRC I was able to pick both topics.  

[Melissa in Australia]

I , when at school missed lost of PE classes, I had to read booklets about various sports and write question and answer type worksheets.

[Bootsie]

Some other things I would consider--is the student still spending time dressing out?  If so, then that time should be taken into consideration of the avialable time.  Is this a standard way the teacher handles this?  Is it the way the teach routinely handles a student who will not be able to participate for a day or two but maybe needs to adjust the assignments for a student who will not be able to particpate for a longer period of time.  Some would also depend upon the expectation that the teacher supervise the student during the PE time or whether the student can be somewhere working independently and what the activity the rest of the class was participating in. 

 

[1234]

When youngest was in high school they had a doctor’s excuse for the entire six weeks of swimming. It was a mental health issue but they were definitely not punished or given busy work. It basically became a study hall and they were allowed to do other work. They just had to be quiet and not distract. In your case, I would raise a complaint about the essay since it could be for a prolonged amount of time. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Joker2

[itsheresomewhere]

What a way to make a person hate exercise and writing.  If that was the goal for this teacher, applause you are on your way to it.  
 

Otherwise, I find to be ridiculous.  Exactly what is the point of what this?  If it was a paper on how to prevent injuries/why warming up help prevent injuries or something physical therapy education once a week, I could go for that. Now if was a long term issue, I would prefer the teacher do some thinking outside the box and see how the kid could participate in something even if it was using hand weights or keeping score they were playing a sport. 

[catz]

2 minutes ago, Kanin said:

Yeah, but there's a difference between a page and a half of writing... like stream of consciousness/journaling type writing, vs. an essay where you have to pick a topic, figure out how to organize, then write... that takes a lot of time.  

Sorry, maybe I missed something about topics.  Like I was imagining something like explain baseball or tennis or the upside of fitness in 5 paragraphs.  I don't know, maybe we're weird here.  I do have a kid that would have much preferred that writing to a typical gym class lol.   It also wasn't clear to me how long this was going to go on.  

My only thought is if the OP wants to approach the school about an alternative, I'd have something very specific your student could work on without supervision or assistance that would actually keep your student busy through those class periods.  Maybe this teacher is being a jerk.  But I can also see a teacher just picking the easiest plan B that is little to no work for the teacher as an alternative.  I can also see a teacher not wanting to give the impression to the other students that an gym excuse is a ticket to twiddling your thumbs for an hour.  I'd be surprised if the teacher was even thoroughly reading those essays when they were done.  

Back in my day, kids with excuses still dressed for gym and did what they could.  Might that be an alternative?

[Frances]

47 minutes ago, KSera said:

Yikes. That seems really excessive to me as well. How long is the excuse for? When I was in school, I just had to watch when I was excused from PE for an injury. It seems reading on a fitness topic could be a possibility, with maybe an occasional essay on what is being read, but any more than one a week seems really over the top. Is there anything physical your kid is able to do, like walking? 

It was similar at my high school. You had to be there and watch (not do HW for other classes). I loved PE and had a great teacher, so I hated missing. 

[DawnM]

19 minutes ago, FuzzyCatz said:

 

Back in my day, kids with excuses still dressed for gym and did what they could.  Might that be an alternative?

And did it lead to future success????   😂😛🤣

Sorry, I can't help myself.

[Faith-manor]

When I was on high school, those who had a doctor's excuse to not participate, books on health, exercise, and sports topics were given to us to read during class. If we were allowed limited movement such as okay to do stretching exercises and walk but no impact or elevated heart rate type things, then we did stretching for 20 minutes, and then headed to the walking track for the rest of the time.

[Soror]

So the counselor is out today.

I'm not inclined to talk to the teacher. I sent her an Email to let her know kid couldn't participate and she was all smarmy to kid about it. I only did that because she kept harassing kid saying she hoped she wasn't lying about a Drs excuse. The Dr is moving offices and it took a few days to get the note.

[bolt.]

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that this is punitive, because: "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence."

In this case, I would assume that a PE teacher really didn't have any sense of where a student's writing level is expected to be in any particular grade. Therefore 5 paragraphs sounds like a 'pretty standard' amount of work of 'about medium' difficulty. Similarly with the choice of topics, they might not see that it isn't productive (or reasonable) to 'just write just about any topic'.

However, it remains true that someone without academic and pedagogical skills in the subject area (writing) ought not to be in charge of designing challenging assignments with short deadlines like this. So I'm in favour of bringing it up, either directly with admin, or simultaneously with admin and the teacher (cc same email?). I'm just saying, phrase it like you think it's an honest mistake: a teacher outside of their area of expertise making a simple misjudgment that is easily fixed. Don't start out with all the negative assumptions in plain view.

[wintermom]

14 minutes ago, Soror said:

So the counselor is out today.

I'm not inclined to talk to the teacher. I sent her an Email to let her know kid couldn't participate and she was all smarmy to kid about it. I only did that because she kept harassing kid saying she hoped she wasn't lying about a Drs excuse. The Dr is moving offices and it took a few days to get the note.

What a tough situation to be in for your dd. I hope she's feeling better really soon. Without knowing the entire situation, if possible, I would probably have communicated the situation myself directly to the PE teacher as soon as my child couldn't participate - whether I had the dr's note or not. If the situation was of a more sensitive nature, I may have gone to the vice-principal or councelor and explained the situation. 

Not every teacher seems to be as understanding of physical/mental issues. When my ds had his tonsils removed in grade 9, there was a minimum 2 weeks recovery at home. My ds needed 3 weeks, as it really hit him hard. I met in-person with all of ds's teachers to let them all know ds's situation. 3 out of 4 of his teachers were awesome and totally supportive. The science teacher expected my ds to keep up with all the readings and assignments at home during the recovery. He seemed to have no clue that being unable to eat or swallow due to pain and surgery make it very difficult to focus on science. I was tempted to do some throat surgery on the guy myself as a learning opportunity. 😉 

[katilac]

Based on the sample topic, I agree it's probably busy work; however, I don't consider 5 paragraphs, no research, to be excessive for 9th grade (assuming they have a solid 40 minutes to do it). If the student doesn't have specific reasons they struggle with writing, I'd be inclined to let it go. If nothing else, writing off the cuff is a great skill to practice. 

If it's going to be a long time, I'd probably roll with the teacher suggestions for a couple of days in good faith, and then mention my own ideas for topics and then alternative assignments. 

I've only spent a small amount of time in schools, but it was enough to see why teachers have to sometimes doubt students and make exceptions somewhat unappealing. Kids do lie, and sometimes their parents do, too. 

My response would mostly depend on how long they were going to be excused. 

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, Dmmetler said:

The years I didn't have a separate adaptive PE class, I was expected to dress out, do what I could reasonably do physically (usually stretching and warm ups-sometimes more if it was something more individual), and help out-things like keeping score in games, or managing equipment. I also took all written tests. (I had adaptive PE in my IEP, but some years it worked for me to do it with the life skills class, and some years the teacher just had to adapt for the days that I wasn't with the PT.)

Students who are an IEP for adaptive gym classes are not to be given academics or excused completely from exercise if there is something they can do. They are also supposed to be included in the class whenever possible. This is what it's supposed to look like. I don't have chapter and verse on IDEA about this--I took the word of the parent that addressed this and who has researched it extensively herself.

My son will need adaptive PE if he attends public high school due to a connective tissue disorder. I found out at a conference that a lot of gym teachers send kids to the library or routinely do other things that are not intended under IDEA, and they are supposed to still be providing a PE experience of some kind.

Kids who have to sit out temporarily should be treated the same way.

As a mother of two 2e kids who take FOREVER to write stuff even with tutoring/intervention, I would be intervening. As someone that had quite a few jerks for teachers, doubly so. As someone that was subjected to poor treatment when we did co-ed PE (example: male PE teacher literally telling the boys that it was okay to run over the girls to win in volleyball), triply so. 

Teachers are supposed to be professional and to follow the law.

[Lecka]

No, that is not what I would expect at all.  I would expect sitting in the bleachers working on other homework.  Or being excused to sit in the library.  
 

I would not expect make-up work.  
 

And written work I’ve seen for gym has only been about rules of games, nutrition, safety (related to sports or activities), and things like that.  
 

I would also not be surprised if walking around a track or around the inside of a basketball court was allowed.  
 

Those are what would be normal to me.  

[Lecka]

I have put up with a lot of school consequences that were borderline, but this would cross a line for me.

I would ask early on this and probably take it higher if there was not a satisfactory response.  

[Lecka]

Honestly — I say this as a parent of a special needs child — PE teachers can be absolutely amazing, but they can also be much less professional than other school staff and way below the overall school standards.  
 

I would be the least inclined to give a PE teacher the benefit of the doubt.  
 

I would have an open mind too, though, in talking to them.  It can be hard to tell what is going on with limited information, sometimes.  

[MercyA]

I don't think I could come up with five paragraphs on such a ridiculous topic. An essay a day is excessive, no question. I'd come up with some alternatives to suggest. 

Hugs to your child. 

[Junie]

I had a medical excuse to get out of the PE credit in college.  Instead, I was put in a 300 level health class with nursing majors.  IMO it was a lot more work than the actual (100 level) phys ed class would have been.  But, I never had an asthma attack in health class and I know I would have had them nearly every class in phys ed.  It was worth the extra work to have the non-standard option.

In your daughter's case, it sounds like the teacher is trying to have an academic substitution for the physical class, similar to what I had.  However, it also sounds like they weren't prepared for this they're just making assignments up on the fly.  Will the essays be graded for content, or just for completion?  For me personally, I probably wouldn't say anything, but I also understand that it might be an inappropriate amount of work, especially if it's graded for content.

[SKL]

When I had a medical excuse to get out of gym (extended time period), I had to write a research paper on a sport each grading period (6 week periods) IIRC.  It was great since this is how I finally came to understand football.  😛  I don't recall how long it was expected to be.

The work wasn't done during gym class but at home.  During gym, I had to sit and watch what my classmates were doing.

I don't really think 5 paragraphs a day is a lot if the kid is just sitting with nothing else to do.  I would honestly rather do that than sit and watch my classmates do jumping jacks and basketball passes.

[SKL]

Does the school allow kids to waive gym if they participate in other things?  My 14yo is waiving gym by doing marching band for 2 seasons.  My other kid waived it by doing marching band and sports last year.

[Dmmetler]

1 hour ago, kbutton said:

Students who are an IEP for adaptive gym classes are not to be given academics or excused completely from exercise if there is something they can do. They are also supposed to be included in the class whenever possible. This is what it's supposed to look like. I don't have chapter and verse on IDEA about this--I took the word of the parent that addressed this and who has researched it extensively herself.

My son will need adaptive PE if he attends public high school due to a connective tissue disorder. I found out at a conference that a lot of gym teachers send kids to the library or routinely do other things that are not intended under IDEA, and they are supposed to still be providing a PE experience of some kind.

Kids who have to sit out temporarily should be treated the same way.

As a mother of two 2e kids who take FOREVER to write stuff even with tutoring/intervention, I would be intervening. As someone that had quite a few jerks for teachers, doubly so. As someone that was subjected to poor treatment when we did co-ed PE (example: male PE teacher literally telling the boys that it was okay to run over the girls to win in volleyball), triply so. 

Teachers are supposed to be professional and to follow the law.

Realistically, I was the first student mainstreamed under PL 94-142 for a neurological disability in my school district, so they were definitely going on the fly. In general, during elementary school where PE wasn't daily anyway, they just pulled me from whatever whenever, so Adaptive PE, PT, OT, speech, etc all happened when the appropriate specialist was there. By high school, they started having conflicts with things like the Adaptive PE specialist was only there during 1st period, but PT was only there during 3rd, and they could only schedule me for PE for one of those two periods, and of the two, the PE teachers were a lot more likely to be able to adapt PE than to be able to do PT, so I did PE as best I could and they could three days a week, and PT twice. 

 

In college, I got assigned to do PE with the trainer that worked with the football and basketball team, which was awesome-I had a custom physical fitness program set up just for me by an expert, and 1-1 personal coaching several times a week-and access to the best facilities the school had to offer :). 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Dmmetler

[Terabith]

I do not think I could write a five paragraph essay on how dressing out for pe will help you in life.  

I have a 10th grader and a 12th grader, and both of them would be very stressed at writing a five paragraph essay in 40 minutes.  My 12th grader could probably do it most days, but my 10th grader absolutely could not.  

[Tanaqui]

When I was a kid, if you missed gym for a day you just sat out and the teacher didn't ask you to do an impromptu study hall unless you were being *really* disruptive.

I once missed gym for a few weeks because I had fallen very badly and hurt myself - no doctor or parents note, my teachers all saw me limping along and, since I didn't really act out much, accepted my explanation as is - and my gym teacher only assigned me to do some simple stretching so long as I felt comfortable.

[Clemsondana]

I was out for a few weeks with mono when I was in high school.  I have a vague memory of writing a few reports on things like the history of basketball, which seems reasonable.  I don't remember if I dressed out or not, but either way would have been fine.  I remember sitting in the bleachers.  Maybe there were some worksheets about sports rules for some of the days, something that the teacher could keep a stack of on hand since it isn't a rare thing for somebody to need to miss PE for a day or 2 due to injury or illness.  I also seem to remember people who couldn't participate in the activity for the day but weren't incapacitated - maybe sprained wrist during volleyball or recovering from a stomach bug and not quite up to jumping hurdles - just being told to walk laps around the gym or field or wherever everybody was.  

All of those seem reasonable accommodations that accomplish the goals - that the student either be learning about a sport or doing something like walking that improves your health.  Writing a page a day about random PE related topics could also be OK if they could be dashed-off papers that students did during class.  But, crafting a 5-paragraph essay about how dressing out prepares you for life seems...unnecessarily difficult and different from 'Write a page about the requirements for PE and why they are there', where the student could write about the importance of exercise and learning about health and they have to dress out so that they can move comfortably, etc.  

[Terabith]

Not to mention that dressing out for PE simply does NOT prepare you for life!!!  Nowhere in my adult life am I required to change clothes in front of my peers.  I mean, if I want to at the gym, I am allowed, but I am not required to, and unless I'm swimming, I just wear what I'm going to exercise in to the gym and change at home.  It's an archaic and deeply stupid requirement.  

[Farrar]

My expectation would be that a high school student who is unable to do PE would take a different class during that period. Is that an option?

I agree that writing a 5 paragraph essay in a single period is fine and something that academic students can often do at this age, but... every day? That's too much. Brains need rest. AP humanities and history classes don't even have kids do that every single day and they're prepping for an exam where you have to churn out an essay fast.