Update - Maybe I'm overreacting?

[alisoncooks]

Thanks for all the thoughts and views. It has helped me to sort through my own thoughts on the matter and better know how I want to respond. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by alisoncooks

[ktgrok]

It is just ONE phone call, to ONE family? 

What does your 14 yr old think? I'd think it possible to help her make one call,if given a script. If she hates the idea, then I'd say she isn't comfortable, and if that is a requirement for her volunteer position she will need to step down. 

[LinRTX]

My thought: it is a volunteer position. This is not something you agreed to do, nor volunteered to do. It is perfectly fine to say to say I am not comfortable doing this and neither is my child. Even if it is one phone call you should not be strong-armed into it because someone in a paid position decided it needs to be done. Pray about it though. Sometimes God is asking we step out of our comfort zone.

[Katy]

Just say no. And when that ridiculous woman makes a fuss about it tell her she needs to learn to deal with boundaries and this is yours. No calls will be made, period. No means no.

If there was any further pushback I’d go over her head to the pastor. 
 

ETA:  I’d personally have no trouble with making a call although I doubt it will help, but I have a huge problem with an adult telling another adult to suck it up. In some contexts I even have a problem with a parent telling a child this.  It’s controlling and ridiculous. Perhaps other people are bristling against manipulation and that’s why they need to be called. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Katy

[bolt.]

I'd hold your ground. Send a written note or email telling the admin that you are not currently allowing your child to take on the responsibility of cold-calling people as requested. Let them know that you will allow her to continue in her other responsibilities. Thank them for their understanding.

You are a great role model! People in ministry volunteer positions need to think for themselves, and they very much need to 'own their no'. They need to turn down unreasonable, unwise, or unwanted requests for volunteer service. Volunteering is a personal choice: what they do needs to be within their personal comfort and approval. Being a 'team player' is unhealthy pressure in a volunteer scenario. (And might indicate unhealthy dynamics overall. Consider it a warning.) 

Your daughter is young, so you are 'owning her no' for her. And that's great. Let her know what you are doing and why.

[Storygirl]

I would not like that, either as the recipient of the phone call or the one asked to do it. I would welcome the postcard, as a family that is doing church virtually, though! I completely understand your concerns.

I think that you (meaning you and DD) could tell the person in charge that this task is out of her comfort zone, and that she is willing to keep serving without doing it, or she can step aside, if the task is not at all optional.

[Indigo Blue]

I 100 percent would feel the same as you. This is the sort of thing that I used to feel guilted or manipulated into doing. I avoid stuff like this now. Your daughter should not feel she has to do this if she doesn’t feel comfortable. I agree that you have a chance to set an example of how to say no. That’s an important lesson. Serving others is a good thing, but it’s pressure and manipulation that makes me draw back. 

[HS Mom in NC]

I take issue with pestering people who have decided not to attend regularly or any more. I also take issue with the approach to call people for one reason by pretending to call for another. The kind of person drawn to be a director is, in my personal experience, prone to be oblivious to how obnoxious this behavior is to some other types of people, as is the scolding for not being a team player. 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to state your objections and say you're fine with daughter doing the postcard half (daughter will send postcard for caller's kid in addition to the card daughter sends for her kid) while someone else takes the phone call half and if that compromise isn't something director is willing to make, then director can find someone else who is willing to do both.  I would've said that out loud. Saying no and offering an alternative form of yes I can sincerely get behind is an indication of being willing to work with someone without compromising convictions. It's not always possible in every situation.

Yes, you are being a good role model to your daughter by drawing a line and sticking to it.  Will director likely think you're difficult?  Almost certainly, but director seems difficult to me by not being able to hear a different point of view and make a compromise.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Homeschool Mom in AZ

[Goldcrest]

I don’t think you are being ridiculous. I would simply tell the Director you find cold calling people inappropriate and neither of you will be participating. Then possibly ask if there is another area your daughter can help. 

[kirstenhill]

How does the 14 year old feel about it? If she is game to try it, as others said, you could help her prepare.  There's a good chance the people she's calling won't answer the phone anyway.  

If she is uncomfortable, then I think it's perfectly reasonable to decline and have her step down from the volunteer position.  You definitely shouldn't be forced to do something you don't feel comfortable doing just because she has a volunteer position that didn't involve this originally. 

[Indigo Blue]

4 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Volunteering is a personal choice: what they do needs to be within their personal comfort and approval. Being a 'team player' is unhealthy pressure in a volunteer scenario. (And might indicate unhealthy dynamics overall. Consider it a warning.) 

I agree with this.  People can serve within their comfort zone without being made to feel guilt because they aren’t “willing to be a team player and get out of their comfort zone”. 

[hippymamato3]

No means no. Especially in volunteering. 

[Slache]

This is not what she volunteered to do. It is perfectly acceptable to ask if she's willing, but this is not her job. The secretary should be doing this. 

[Junie]

No, imo this is not an appropriate responsibility for a 14-year-old.  As a parent, I would not want a teenager sending postcards to my kids or calling me to ask me to bring my kids back to church.

[alisoncooks]

.

Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[RootAnn]

Definitely not overreacting. I think you made the right call (pun intended). I'd double-down & point out the "volunteer" aspect again.

Just no. For either of you.

(And I am another that would not be ok with my contact info floating around.)

[ktgrok]

3 minutes ago, alisoncooks said:

Well, we're already on assigned contact #2. (Luckily, #1 was an older church couple, regularly attending until COVID, and the contact kid was their visiting grandchild. I just FB'd them and they said the grandkid didn't need the postcard, lol.)

Idk how long the list is. It seems once one is done, another is assigned. 

Dd has some social anxiety and is strongly opposed to making the call. 

Ok, if she doesn't want to, that's that. No way she should have to. That's not how "volunteer" works. 

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that the fundamental problem here is that the leader is not leading.  Rather, he is commanding.

If that is how he sees this role, this is not going to be the only time you have issues with it.

I’d keep a eye out for something else to volunteer for instead.  My sense is that either he grows up fast or not at all, my money is on not at all, and getting ready to sidestep the whole mess might turn out to be pretty important.

[marbel]

I don't think it's unreasonable to say no. I would not like being called. The pastor/elders can contact the parents if they feel something is amiss. Kids are not responsible for getting themselves to children's church, so they should not be getting postcards asking them to come back. 

If the issue was simply phone anxiety on your daughter's part, I would probably encourage her to make the calls. My young adults have severe phone anxiety and I now regret not having had them make more phone calls when they were younger. (But that is only if contact information is "public" within the church, as in a directory that members/attenders have access to.)

[Farrar]

I think it's an okay thing for them to do and an okay thing for them to ask the volunteers to do. I don't think it's intrusive or a breach of privacy. I mean, sorry, folks, but if you give the church your info, they might reach out to you occasionally and churches use volunteers. It's a phone number, not a social security number. People don't have to answer. Many people like being personally reached out to. These efforts are generally fruitful and positive in getting a church to go from pew warmers to more involved.

I think it's mostly okay to ask a 14 yo to participate. But obviously you have to agree to let your kid do it and you don't. And it's honestly weird that they're pushing it and pushing you. Like, everyone's gifts are not the same. It's okay to not be comfortable doing a thing. It doesn't matter the reason. If they push it, that's rude and uninviting of them and not valuing of your 14 yo's volunteering in the first place. Basically the opposite of reaching out to families. So, very not cool. Dig your heels in. If they raise a stink, that's on them.

[happi duck]

Agreeing with others "no means no"!

So a family visits and doesn't come back and they want a volunteer to call "I'm from ABC church.  I want to verify your address to send your kids a card"?  I don't want to verify my address to a stranger!

This is the director's job.  "I'm the Children's director at ABC church.  I noticed your kids haven't attended in awhile.  Do you have any questions or concerns I can answer?". This should help clarify if they're ever coming back.  Director can add " would you like to be on a mailing list for occasional cards and information about special events? "

That said, to me, a phone call can be intrusive and if you have an address already just send the postcard!

[Amethyst]

I’m 100% with you. Cold calling is yucky and intrusive. Stand your ground

Edited April 24, 2021 by Amethyst

[ealp2009]

I also don’t have a problem with them asking a 14 year old to do this.  Many children would enjoy a cute post card and a short note addressed to them.   I also think is is a good skill for a 14 year old to practice calling people.   People don’t have to pick up the phone and a check in call saying, how are you doing, we’ve missed you, isn’t really intrusive.     Ultimately you are the parent though, so you get to decide.   I agree the push back, you must do this attitude is inappropriate.  

[alisoncooks]

.

Edited July 27, 2022 by alisoncooks

[KidsHappen]

I totally agree with you POV. I do not like making phones calls unless I absolutly have to and I detest receiving phones calls from strangers that I am not expecting. I never answer a phone call from a number I don't recognize. I also agree that No means no. It doesn't not mean convince or coerce me, especially a non-parent adult speaking to a child. I also do not appreciate someone telling me to suck it up to do something that they want me to do. No thank you. You suck it up and deal with the fact that my dd is not doing this. It's your responsibility, you deal with it.

[fraidycat]

I think that "private" contact information is an overreaction. It wasn't that long ago that you could pick up a book and look up the phone number and house address of almost every family in every city. 

A phone call to say "we'd like to send your kid a card and verify the address" is neither intrusive, nor a breach of trust. It's reaching out and communicating care and concern in a time when that is sorely needed by a lot of people.

14 years old is old enough to learn some phone and communication skills.

I would have zero problem with my child being asked to do any of it. And would, in fact, encourage and help them - not by making the calls for them, but giving them a script, letting them practice on me, and being with them as they make the call.
 

But, it's your family so it's your choice about what is comfortable for you.

[Catwoman]

Am I the only one who would get a call like that from a random person I didn’t know, and assume it was a scammer phishing for my personal information? 

(In case you were wondering, this is another vote for No Means No!)

 

[DeainUSA]

Being asked is fine.  Kinda.  She is a child, I don't love it.  Being argued, bullied, pressured when you expressed concern and a no.  That's just unacceptable to me.  A no problem, that's just fine should have been the immediate response.  

[Sherry in OH]

5 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Am I the only one who would get a call like that from a random person I didn’t know, and assume it was a scammer phishing for my personal information? 

(In case you were wondering, this is another vote for No Means No!)

 

I would not provide my mailing address to a random caller.  Being called by a teen would make me question the child-safety measures taken by the facility.   I have too many years of Scout BSA's policy of no one-on-one contact between adults and youth to be comfortable with this scenario. 

The head of youth services or a designed adult contact person should make the phone calls.  

[KungFuPanda]

They want children to call adults and question their parenting abilities . . . during a pandemic? 
 

That tracks. 

[Faith-manor]

I do not think you are overreacting. A lot of people do not want to be cold called by a church, well anyone. It is sad, but churches face the consequences of living in a society of folks who are just utterly worn out by cold call telemarketing and political calls, and of course right now, a lot of folks are working from home and aren't going to answer.

A post card is less intrusive, and easier to ignore. 

Beyond that, it is very unethical for the church leadership to give out personal phone numbers of persons who did not authorize that release to teenagers. If a school had teens cold calling homes about student absences, it would end up in the news in a very negative way. So I would not allow my teen to take part in it. I would not personally take part in such a thing, but back when I was a church volunteer, I would.have considered cute, kid postcards, and hand them off to the church secretary to address/print labels, and mail. It is far more appropriate for paid, administrative staff to have access to this information than volunteers.

[Faith-manor]

2 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

They want children to call adults and question their parenting abilities . . . during a pandemic? 
 

That tracks. 

No joke!!!! 🤔 Somebody not thinking to critically right there. Then again, I can't imagine choosing to attend any gathering like church during a pandemic. So I know I process differently than others. Shoot, last summer when we finally got up the nerve to spend an afternoon on the beach, I took four orange road cones and created the corners of a 16 ft square for us, then tied pennant garland between them to create our "don't even think about coming over here and breathing on me" space. I might not be the best voice on the issue of taking attendance during a public health crisis! 😂

[catz]

I think it's absolutely fine for you as a parent to say no or your 14 year old to say she's not comfortable and say no.   It's a volunteer position and volunteers get to decide where their energies are best used and how they are willing to use their time. There is NO way anyone should be harassing you about it.   I would be super mad.  Unless possibly your daughter accepted a volunteer role that had "phone follow up with families" in written job description.  I actually think it is good to model healthy boundaries and saying no to people, especially for young women.  Is the director paid?  She can spend a few of her work days making those calls if she thinks it is so important.  I am fine with our church having our contact info.  But I wouldn't expect them to share it to random members without consent.  That is a privacy issue.  

I was working this winter on a homeschool group based project as a volunteer. I had probably 200 hours or so into this particular project and was finishing up.  The "boss" e-mailed recently and basically sent me a long list of people to call to follow up with on bunch of super fine questions.  I had ZERO issue saying I don't have the time or energy to hide for several days with my phone to people who have been ignoring e-mails from me for the last 3 months.   If some other volunteer does, great.  Otherwise things look good and done to me.   Post all info online, e-mail  and say you have 48 hours to review and call it done.  

 I have to schedule and go hide for my own phone calls over here in zoom land as is.  I have been avoiding volunteer commitments that require phone time for years.  All our phones are on silent during the week during the school and work day pretty standard and I step away if I need to get on the phone.  Heck, it takes me a few hours to notice my away college student texted me on a regular basis.

Edited April 24, 2021 by FuzzyCatz

[Amethyst]

When my kids were younger, some of them wanted to go to the group church activities, some of them didn’t. They generally waited until slightly older than schooled kids before deciding to join. I always tried to respect their preference. If they didn’t want to go be with a group of strangers, I didn’t push it. If someone were to call me and pressure me, I don’t know that I would have appreciated the pressure. 

[Bootsie]

I do not think you, or your daughter, should do anything your personally feel uncomfortable with.  

I am not sure I understand that concern of making one phone call.  I come from a tradition where there was a church directory with the pictures, addresses, and phone numbers of church members.  By the time I was a young teen, I would call church members to give a reminder of an upcoming event or a number of other things.  Or, the church youth group would help fold and staple the newsletter and stick on mailing labels (so we say names and addresses).  So, I would not jump immediately to a concern that private information was being given out to a teen.    

 

[Goldcrest]

I do not understand why they need to call and verify the address. That’s quite odd. Why not just post the note for the child and assume the address on file is correct, and if it is not, then oh well. It seems like an excuse for a pushy sales call to return to church which is very off putting frankly. 

[Katy]

I think I have maybe two friends with school age children that even answer calls from people they don't know.  They are both men and manage projects from outside contractors from work so they answer every call.

Zero of my mom friends answer calls from numbers they don't recognize. Many of them re-post every meme they see about never taking or making phone calls.  If for some reason people did get through the answer would be, "We don't go to church and we won't go until this pandemic is over, no matter what."  And I don't think they'd be nice about it.  This isn't a call a 14 year old needs to be involved with.

Knowing your DD has anxiety about it and doesn't want to is more than enough even if none of those things were a factor.

[Pawz4me]

11 minutes ago, Holmesschooler said:

I do not understand why they need to call and verify the address. That’s quite odd. Why not just post the note for the child and assume the address on file is correct, and if it is not, then oh well. It seems like an excuse for a pushy sales call to return to church which is very off putting frankly. 

Yes. It seems like a very weird and flimsy excuse, and I would wonder about ulterior motives. Just mail a card already. Why would the director assume someone's phone number is correct but the address isn't? That doesn't make sense.

[Faith-manor]

32 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

I do not think you, or your daughter, should do anything your personally feel uncomfortable with.  

I am not sure I understand that concern of making one phone call.  I come from a tradition where there was a church directory with the pictures, addresses, and phone numbers of church members.  By the time I was a young teen, I would call church members to give a reminder of an upcoming event or a number of other things.  Or, the church youth group would help fold and staple the newsletter and stick on mailing labels (so we say names and addresses).  So, I would not jump immediately to a concern that private information was being given out to a teen.    

 

I can understand that too. And it might feel normal to regular attendees who are accustomed to such things. I think it would off putting to those that are not. I know church directories went the way of the dodo around here when everyone got cell phones instead of landlines, and complaints about constant mailings went out, and the cost of mailing went up. So probably a regional thing. I do know a lot of folks who do not want their cell phone numbers given out to just anybody, certainly not teen volunteers from any organization. Over time things change. My daughter's generation feels very overwhelmed with phone calls or at least that is what she and her friends report.

[Murphy101]

One, minors should not be privately contacting adults with a few official exceptions such as the priest or paid staff. And even then, that would be limited. 

Two, most adults won’t answer a call they don’t recognize anyways. 

Three, I have a special hell no that’s yucky spot for people trying to get my kids to guilt trip or nag me to do things I’ve decided they are not going to do. Add another layer of ick when they rope another kid into instigating it.  You want to try talking ME into it, then an actual adult needs to have an actual chat with me about why I might be willing to change my mind. I tend to triple down on my NO when these tactics are used bc it really does not endear me to the idea of these adults being good role models for my kids.  

Four, even if I was willing to do this I would want a list and then be done. That finish one and get another and who the heck knows when it will ever end is nonsense. I mean are you committing to calling 2 people? 20? 200? That absolutely changes things and I would flat out say no if they couldn’t give me clearer parameters. 

Five. My kid volunteered for this, not me. I would not do it for them.  I’d either say point blank that they are going to need to say no or the job just wouldn’t get done bc the shy kid wouldn’t want to confront and it’s not my job to deal with it. I’d probably voice that hey this may not be virtus compliant and did Fr okay this? And that would likely be the end of that. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by Murphy101

[Murphy101]

8 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

Yes. It seems like a very weird and flimsy excuse, and I would wonder about ulterior motives. Just mail a card already. Why would the director assume someone's phone number is correct but the address isn't? That doesn't make sense.

I think it’s flimsy too. But otoh it is expensive to do mail outs in large churches. 

 

[Wheres Toto]

I'm another vote for no, you are not overreacting.    I wouldn't let my kids make cold calls to people they don't know to ask intrusive questions about why they aren't attending church at the moment and.  Whether your church is strict with mask/covid guidelines or relaxed, there's a decent chance she's going to run into people who disagree and aren't attending for that reason.  I wouldn't set her up to have to deal with that.  People may not realize she's a kid and say all kinds of crap to her.    Add in her anxiety about it and that's a definite no.

I wouldn't do it either.  I hate making phone calls, especially cold calls to people I don't know.  

They should just skip the phone calls and send the postcards.  It can't be that many so shouldn't be expensive to just send them out. 

[Faith-manor]

4 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I think it’s flimsy too. But otoh it is expensive to do mail outs in large churches. 

 

This is where the wonder of email is good. They can read it or not read it. No cost to anyone! Big fan! 

[Zebra]

I think we could go round and round for days whether this would be a welcome phone call to the person on the other end or not.   I think that's largely a personality thing.   I would HATE getting a phone call like this.   But clearly other people would LIKE getting a phone call like this, or be neutral about it.

What's icky to me is this pressure and the pushback you are getting that your boundaries/feelings etc are wrong.   It seems like a small deal on the surface but is in fact a huge deal when you get right down to it.    You're allowed to feel like something is wrong and choose not to do it without being shamed into compliance.

You are not wrong.   You are allowed to not like this, and not want your DD to do this.   You do not have to justify it or explain yourself.  It's gross that you are being made to feel this way.

[Murphy101]

Just now, Faith-manor said:

This is where the wonder of email is good. They can read it or not read it. No cost to anyone! Big fan! 

Meh. Not really. I swear I’ve come to despise email and I guard my email more jealously than my actual address. No way I respond to even 1/4 of what I get. And I don’t check my junk files every day either and I have no idea why some stuff from the same address will go to junk and some won’t. Drives me bonkers. And there’s my email. Husband email. The homeschool email. The kid’s individual email, and the email overload is not just an old person issue either. And Lordy do I HATE FB groups. No matter how much I follow and like and list as important and see first and see all - I swear that blasted algorithm is designed to specifically only show me stuff days after it would have been helpful to know.  Like this am I scrolled FB and the second thing I saw was a reminder that YESTERDAY there was an event I marked as “going”. Well thanks for nothing FB  😒 I try to make sure stuff is in my my personal cozy calendar but apparently some times a gal just cannot get enough redundancy to safeguard all the things happening.

Anyone who is important to us will either call or text. 
 

[Murphy101]

I guess I don’t see the point. Obviously people are not bringing their kids.  I think it would be helpful to run an ad in the church bulletin saying hey reminder that the nursery is fully staffed and eager to see the church kids so call or come by to sign up. 

[Faith-manor]

15 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

Meh. Not really. I swear I’ve come to despise email and I guard my email more jealously than my actual address. No way I respond to even 1/4 of what I get. And I don’t check my junk files every day either and I have no idea why some stuff from the same address will go to junk and some won’t. Drives me bonkers. And there’s my email. Husband email. The homeschool email. The kid’s individual email, and the email overload is not just an old person issue either. And Lordy do I HATE FB groups. No matter how much I follow and like and list as important and see first and see all - I swear that blasted algorithm is designed to specifically only show me stuff days after it would have been helpful to know.  Like this am I scrolled FB and the second thing I saw was a reminder that YESTERDAY there was an event I marked as “going”. Well thanks for nothing FB  😒 I try to make sure stuff is in my my personal cozy calendar but apparently some times a gal just cannot get enough redundancy to safeguard all the things happening.

Anyone who is important to us will either call or text. 
 

But I think that is the point. It actually isn't very intrusive. The phone is not ringing, you do not have to decide to pick up or not, you are not inundated with phone notifications from text, and emails are so very easily ignored which you indicate is what you choose to do a lot of the time. And frankly, yes people who are important to you will call or text. I would think that some random volunteer from some random program you haven't been sending your kids to is not someone important for you to make contact with. But, I do understand everyone has their own preferences.

Mostly, I think it is obnoxious to take attendance during a pandemic and then cold call, mail, or well, anything about it. Honey and vinegar and all that. I just don't think it is appropriate so probably that fact right there informs my opinion more than anything else. 😁

[Farrar]

How is your church that you usually attend or have regularly attended in the past calling to say, "Hey, we miss your kid, we'd love to see them again. Can we send a postcard and is this the right address?" questioning your parenting ability?!? Like, way to overreact, folks.

I get why some people hate cold calls - both getting and giving them. I also get why some people would feel weird about the address part. But... come on. This is just standard outreach for a church to call and say they'd like your presence and for your kids to participate in their programs. Good grief.

Edited April 24, 2021 by Farrar

[Terabith]

I was teaching Sunday School (alone) by the time I was 12.  I did all sorts of church volunteer things.  This is just weird.  We're in the middle of a pandemic; it's a weird time to pressure anyone on attendance.  Making a phone call to "confirm an address" is a weird, passive aggressive tactic.  I think mailing a post card is fine.  Honestly, I'd be okay with a phone call from someone the parent/ child has a relationship with (director of children's education, pastor/ priest/ rector, Sunday School teacher), but a phone call from a teen who checks kids in and prints labels is weird.  Pushing people to do things they aren't comfortable doing is not okay.  And not giving a list, so you don't know how many are required is sneaky and annoying.  

Just no, all around.  I'm fine with the post cards.  And I do think phone call practice for teens is a valuable thing.  But this is just poorly thought out.  

[Terabith]

2 minutes ago, Farrar said:

How is your church that you usually attend or have regularly attended in the past calling to say, "Hey, we miss your kid, we'd love to see them again. Can we send a postcard and is this the right address?" questioning your parenting ability?!? Like, way to overreact, folks.

I get why some people hate cold calls - both getting and giving them. I also get why some people would feel weird about the address part. But... come on. This is just standard outreach for a church to call and say they'd like your presence and for your kids to participate in their programs. Good grief.

I think a phone call saying, "Hey, we've missed your kid in children's church," would be annoying to make and annoying to receive, but I don't think it's over the top.  

A phone call saying, "We want to send your child a post card telling them how much we've missed them in children's church and will you confirm your address?" is weird.