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Am I doing the right thing? Kids not masking in my DD's Sunday School class.

MercyA

By MercyA,
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MercyA

MercyA

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Our church recently restarted our Sunday School program. I'm teaching and require masks in my classroom. [Details removed for privacy]

My DD went to her class last week, and about half the kids were not wearing masks. [Details removed.]

We decided that DD will not be going back to her class for now. We will reconsider when the positivity is lower.

This is breaking my heart. [DD hasn't seen her friends much.] I'm pretty rational in general, but sad kids kill me. 

We're doing the right thing, right?

Edited by MercyA
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J-rap

J-rap

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You're doing the right thing.  And as a Christian, you're absolutely doing the right thing, because even apart from science, we are called as Christians to sacrifice for others, especially the most vulnerable.  To me, that is the very heart of Christ's message, and I have no understanding of churches that choose to do otherwise.

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PeterPan

PeterPan

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Personally, I'm not sure what positivity rates have to do with it. If the goal is not to get sick either go (with a Happy Mask, something with data on effectiveness) or don't go. Either way you did what you thought was right, something no one else can decide for you. To me, making it about the percentages isn't about the science or the odds of your getting sick (which are the same if the person next to you is infected and both are unmasked irrespective of the county's positivity rate) but about a political statement. And personally, I think the church has enough division already.

If you can go and wear your mask and feel safe and be in peace, go. If you think your mask is so crappy worthless that you're still unsafe (and yeah I'm opinionated on that), then don't go. If you think a political statement is necessary and can't go in peace, don't go. 

Most churches around here are completely unmasked or do not require masking. The debate is over (what the officials are saying, what the churches have decided to do) and people should just do what they think they can do in peace. 

Edited by PeterPan
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Gobblygook

Gobblygook

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Our church isn’t even meeting right now, except for online, because of the pandemic. Once I am fully vaccinated, I am toying with the idea of going back to church, possibly a different one if ours is still not in-person. But I would not go to any church that is not masking, nor would I allow my children to attend any activity where masking is not required. (We just tried a new co-op and pulled out after one hour because few people were masked.) It really stinks, but it’s necessary for us to be pretty cautious since we have another child who is high risk. 

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MercyA

MercyA

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I love you guys so much. ❤️❤️❤️

@PeterPan, I know that ultimately my husband and I need to decide the right thing to do. I'm feeling sad and worried and needed some encouragement and input from my peeps. I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm not involved in politics, and, for me, politics have zero to do with my decision.

Edited by MercyA
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math teacher

math teacher

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I am as sure as I can reasonably be that I caught covid at church. My dh and I and sometimes one or two others are masked. Everyone else-no mask or social distancing. Singing as in pre-pandemic times. I normally social distance even with the mask, but about a week before my illness started, I broke my rule. I am pretty sure this is when I was infected. 

It hurts because church is where you are supposed to go to be able to feel safe. I will be so glad when i am completely vaccinated.

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importswim

importswim

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Yes, you're doing the right thing as hard as it is.

Is there a reason why you're still teaching Sunday School yet not going to the service (I do understand based on your PP why you're not going to the service)? How is the church leadership treating the classes and masking? Is it up to each teacher? How are the parents in your class reacting to their kids having to wear masks?

I'm asking because I'm wondering if the other Sunday School teacher would be Ok with requiring kids in their class to wear masks so that your daughter can go? Can you talk with them or do they think you're being silly about masking? I'm so sorry that you're in this hard situation. I've been rolled eyes at by fellow church members and my kids have borne the brunt of some hard decisions as well. It's no fun.

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J-rap

J-rap

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7 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Personally, I'm not sure what positivity rates have to do with it. If the goal is not to get sick either go (with a Happy Mask, something with data on effectiveness) or don't go. Either way you did what you thought was right, something no one else can decide for you. To me, making it about the percentages isn't about the science or the odds of your getting sick (which are the same if the person next to you is infected and both are unmasked irrespective of the county's positivity rate) but about a political statement. And personally, I think the church has enough division already.

If you can go and wear your mask and feel safe and be in peace, go. If you think your mask is so crappy worthless that you're still unsafe (and yeah I'm opinionated on that), then don't go. If you think a political statement is necessary and can't go in peace, don't go. 

Most churches around here are completely unmasked or do not require masking. The debate is over (what the officials are saying, what the churches have decided to do) and people should just do what they think they can do in peace. 

But I think it isn't even about getting sick yourself necessarily.  It's because we contribute to the spread if we get sick, and we're trying to help protect others.  And, there are new variants out, and no one's sure how that'll all play out.  It's not about a political statement either.  It's about trying to do the compassionate thing for the benefit of the world around us.

By helping to prevent the spread, it also means things can get back to normal sooner.  The picture really is far bigger than just protecting yourself.  And I still don't understand why wearing a mask is such a big deal.  It seems like such a simple thing to do!

The debate certainly isn't over here...  I'm not quite sure what you mean by that?

I do agree that there's a lot of division in the church right now, and that makes me sad.  It's really difficult to know how to navigate that.

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Garga

Garga

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18 minutes ago, importswim said:

I'm asking because I'm wondering if the other Sunday School teacher would be Ok with requiring kids in their class to wear masks so that your daughter can go? Can you talk with them or do they think you're being silly about masking? I'm so sorry that you're in this hard situation. I've been rolled eyes at by fellow church members and my kids have borne the brunt of some hard decisions as well. It's no fun.

If the other teacher is ok with you asking her to require masks, I would start there.  If you can tell that that conversation won’t go anywhere, then you are doing the right thing.

It’s frustrating and sad, but it’s the right thing.

Edited by Garga
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Kanin

Kanin

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For anyone who is curious, the CDC recently studied and then put out new guidance about the effectiveness of masks, and double-masking, and what protection a person gets from wearing a mask on his or her own, vs. when two people are masked. We'd have to extrapolate from this to make educated guesses about the risk of having more people in a room, with different percentages of people masking. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/double-face-mask-covid-19-cdc/ 

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PeterPan

PeterPan

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10 minutes ago, J-rap said:

But I think it isn't even about getting sick yourself necessarily.  It's because we contribute to the spread if we get sick, and we're trying to help protect others.  And, there are new variants out, and no one's sure how that'll all play out.  It's not about a political statement either.  It's about trying to do the compassionate thing for the benefit of the world around us.

By helping to prevent the spread, it also means things can get back to normal sooner.  The picture really is far bigger than just protecting yourself.  And I still don't understand why wearing a mask is such a big deal.  It seems like such a simple thing to do!

The debate certainly isn't over here...  I'm not quite sure what you mean by that?

I do agree that there's a lot of division in the church right now, and that makes me sad.  It's really difficult to know how to navigate that.

To me the debate is over because everybody and their brother has said their peace three times over and churches have decided and been rolling how they're going to roll for months. Why keep bringing conflict?? I don't see any BENEFIT to debating and being divisive about it any more. They've already decided how to handle it. 

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KungFuPanda

KungFuPanda

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This makes me a bit crazy and this attitude is why Covid is so out of control.  People just do not care about other people.  Around here they are planning to reopen schools because "there is no evidence that open schools cause community spread."  Of course there is no evidence.  Nobody is collecting evidence.  Schools aren't following their own plans for closure and it's a free-for-all.  Honestly, I'd keep my family home until the church took a stronger stance on safety and mask use.  I'm not sure how insulated you are in your room if the rest of the building isn't masking.

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Happy2BaMom

Happy2BaMom

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1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Personally, I'm not sure what positivity rates have to do with it. If the goal is not to get sick either go (with a Happy Mask, something with data on effectiveness) or don't go. Either way you did what you thought was right, something no one else can decide for you. To me, making it about the percentages isn't about the science or the odds of your getting sick (which are the same if the person next to you is infected and both are unmasked irrespective of the county's positivity rate) but about a political statement.

 

Huh? A positivity rate is *the* indication of how prevalent the virus is in your state/community (esp since the US has no contact tracing). The higher the positivity rate is, the more likely you are to encounter someone who has the virus if you go out in public. And no, the odds are not the same regardless of the positivity rate (smh). The higher the positivity rate, the more likely the person sitting next to you is positive.

 

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kbutton

kbutton

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27 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

To me the debate is over because everybody and their brother has said their peace three times over and churches have decided and been rolling how they're going to roll for months. Why keep bringing conflict?? I don't see any BENEFIT to debating and being divisive about it any more. They've already decided how to handle it. 

Yep, and many have handled it in a way that leaves the conscientious completely out. We are non-entities in our own churches. Free to come back when we stop “living in fear,” and except for the accommodations of being able to watch a canned service (not even a real service) and being able to give online, we are not even included in ordinary announcements. Prior to the pandemic, the recorded services were in front of a live audience—we don’t even get that courtesy now—it’s a blue filter in a recording room. Our previously weekly newsletter is more like every 8 weeks. We have zero idea what is going on, except that pics people post to Facebook shows that the church doesn’t follow their own guidelines.

Leadership doesn’t say anything about living in fear in the canned sermons, but they either don’t realize that is what half the congregation says on FB, or they don’t care enough to send a different message.

I do receive updates for major changes to kid ministries (I volunteered in an indirect way pre-pandemic), and there were surveys sent about those specific ministries. My DH has received zero information about his ministry and was blatantly left out of the conversation. When we did find out that ministry was claiming to meet outdoors and distanced/masked (via FB pictures that showed we were clearly left out), he tried to attend with our kids, and they were not distanced or masked at all even after publicly stating that they couldn’t continue to meet if distancing was not enforced. 

DH said it’s like we’ve been divorced, and he seems to be the least bothered by it of all our family.

At this point, division is sort of the name of the game. It’s a huge church. They could offer truly careful options for those of us who care—when they advertise a distanced and masked opportunity to serve (such as handing out food boxes), they could, in fact, be distanced and masked vs. having children from different households wrestling on the lawn. During the summer, they could have made one of their numerous services outdoors and committed to keeping it best practices for those who care—they host multiple services on purpose already to allow for “distancing,” so it’s not a big ask. They could recruit some stay-at-home people to lead Zoom Bible studies. They could, you know...care.

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4atHome

4atHome

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5 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Yep, and many have handled it in a way that leaves the conscientious completely out. We are non-entities in our own churches. Free to come back when we stop “living in fear,” and except for the accommodations of being able to watch a canned service (not even a real service) and being able to give online, we are not even included in ordinary announcements. Prior to the pandemic, the recorded services were in front of a live audience—we don’t even get that courtesy now—it’s a blue filter in a recording room. Our previously weekly newsletter is more like every 8 weeks. We have zero idea what is going on, except that pics people post to Facebook shows that the church doesn’t follow their own guidelines.

Leadership doesn’t say anything about living in fear in the canned sermons, but they either don’t realize that is what half the congregation says on FB, or they don’t care enough to send a different message.

I do receive updates for major changes to kid ministries (I volunteered in an indirect way pre-pandemic), and there were surveys sent about those specific ministries. My DH has received zero information about his ministry and was blatantly left out of the conversation. When we did find out that ministry was claiming to meet outdoors and distanced/masked (via FB pictures that showed we were clearly left out), he tried to attend with our kids, and they were not distanced or masked at all even after publicly stating that they couldn’t continue to meet if distancing was not enforced. 

DH said it’s like we’ve been divorced, and he seems to be the least bothered by it of all our family.

At this point, division is sort of the name of the game. It’s a huge church. They could offer truly careful options for those of us who care—when they advertise a distanced and masked opportunity to serve (such as handing out food boxes), they could, in fact, be distanced and masked vs. having children from different households wrestling on the lawn. During the summer, they could have made one of their numerous services outdoors and committed to keeping it best practices for those who care—they host multiple services on purpose already to allow for “distancing,” so it’s not a big ask. They could recruit some stay-at-home people to lead Zoom Bible studies. They could, you know...care.

Wow, do we attend the same place. 

We are not living in fear!  Trying to respect our authorities and love our neighbors and care for our family.  I don't see why it's such a big deal for people to wear a mask.

Yes, I know it's asymptomatic and mild symptoms for many.  So was polio!

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kbutton

kbutton

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1 minute ago, 4atHome said:

Wow, do we attend the same place. 

We are not living in fear!  Trying to respect our authorities and love our neighbors and care for our family.  I don't see why it's such a big deal for people to wear a mask.

Yes, I know it's asymptomatic and mild symptoms for many.  So was polio!

I am in SW Ohio.

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Tanaqui

Tanaqui

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This isn't just about your own family's personal safety, it's about doing your part as a responsible citizen to limit the spread of the disease to others.

So yes, you are doing the right thing. Anything else would be reckless and heartless. Not wearing a mask is like driving after "only" a few beers - you'll probably be fine, but you just might kill someone.

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Not_a_Number

Not_a_Number

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You know I think you're doing the right thing 🙂 . And I do know how hard it is. I'm so sorry about that. 

Honestly, it's part of the reason we've just stayed at home and not restarted things -- it's so heartbreaking to try and then have to pull back again. But then we have plenty of friends who are also still isolating, and that has made things a lot easier for us. Paradoxically, more people isolating made us less alone 😉 . 

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HSmomof2

HSmomof2

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You are doing the right thing, and I’m sorry you’re having to deal with it.
 

I cannot express how frustrated and disappointed I am in many churches, Christians, and homeschoolers. Their behavior concerning the pandemic is despicable and very far from how I believe God wants us to love each other. What I have seen is anything but loving or caring for others. Thankfully our own church is carefully following public health guidelines, and I’m looking forward to being able to return in person once vaccinated. I’m also thankful my youngest will start dual enrollment at the community college in the fall, so I never have to be involved in a homeschool group ever again. 

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MercyA

MercyA

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8 hours ago, importswim said:

Yes, you're doing the right thing as hard as it is.

Is there a reason why you're still teaching Sunday School yet not going to the service (I do understand based on your PP why you're not going to the service)? How is the church leadership treating the classes and masking? Is it up to each teacher? How are the parents in your class reacting to their kids having to wear masks?

I'm asking because I'm wondering if the other Sunday School teacher would be Ok with requiring kids in their class to wear masks so that your daughter can go? Can you talk with them or do they think you're being silly about masking? I'm so sorry that you're in this hard situation. I've been rolled eyes at by fellow church members and my kids have borne the brunt of some hard decisions as well. It's no fun.

Thank you. 

I'm teaching Sunday School as a service to the church and my kids. Attendance is way down--mostly because the church had the audacity to "urge" people to wear masks (not require, mind you). There are a (very) few people not attending because the church doesn't require masks. So, there is no one else to teach the class, and honestly, I don't want to give it up. I've poured a lot of time into it and love the kids.

The church's policy is for the parents to decide if they want their kids to wear masks or not. Because of this, none of the other teachers requires it. [Details removed for privacy.]

I know one set of parents is very, very anti-mask--but they haven't said anything to me. They send their child to class without one and I provide one for him. [Details removed.]

Re: my DD's class. The class has rotating teachers. At least one teacher would be strongly opposed, I believe, to mandating masks. [Details removed.]

No fun is right, but honestly, compared to sacrifices others have made, I have no right to complain. It's just so, so unnecessary. Masks are such a simple way to show love. 

Edited by MercyA
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ktgrok

ktgrok

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4 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Personally, I'm not sure what positivity rates have to do with it.

It's about odds. It makes is less or more likely that someone in the classroom has Covid, that's all. I do tend to isolate even more when rates are higher - like I cut my own pixie cut...very badly....when our rates were 20% and higher, but went first thing in the morning with a good mask on for a quick cut when rates were around 5%. When rates are lower it isn't 100 percent safe, but it is on factor out of many I take into account (along with air flow, size of crowd, how many people have been in that building that day before me, general exposure level of the people I'm around, etc.)

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Not_a_Number

Not_a_Number

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3 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

It's about odds. It makes is less or more likely that someone in the classroom has Covid, that's all. I do tend to isolate even more when rates are higher - like I cut my own pixie cut...very badly....when our rates were 20% and higher, but went first thing in the morning with a good mask on for a quick cut when rates were around 5%. When rates are lower it isn't 100 percent safe, but it is on factor out of many I take into account (along with air flow, size of crowd, how many people have been in that building that day before me, general exposure level of the people I'm around, etc.)

Yeah, we were very slightly less careful in the summer, when positivity was much lower. Although the new variants, plus the higher rate of other illnesses in the winter means that it's not really an apples to apples comparison anymore. 

Edited by Not_a_Number
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MercyA

MercyA

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2 hours ago, kand said:

Is your dd connecting with her friend in other ways? My dd does frequent video calls with her best friend, and that helps a lot. They’ve also had a handful of masked outdoor meetups, which is nice for them to at least occasionally set in person eyes on each other, even if briefly. 

I'm trying. It's not as high of a priority and it's more difficult for friend's mom, as they are doing their usual activities and their homeschool studies are more time-consuming than ours. But we've done a few outdoor things and a couple video calls. 

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Corraleno

Corraleno

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2 hours ago, PeterPan said:

It's not here. Our numbers have gone way way down. 

Numbers are "down" everywhere because Thanksgiving and Christmas are long over, but the numbers are still not good. According to JHU, positivity in Ohio is around 8%, which is worse than the national average (6.8%) — and it's almost certainly higher than that in the actual community since the overall numbers are skewed by the fact that OSU is running 30,000 tests per week and has a positivity rate of 0.43%. Oregon, which has much stricter regulations and higher compliance, is at 3%, and even NY is currently under 4%. 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states/usa

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kbutton

kbutton

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1 hour ago, kand said:

I’m so sad to see how many churches are having this attitude. I’ve been extremely grateful for how our church has handled Covid. I say that not as a brag, but as an encouragement that not all churches are like that (and also so that non-Christians and non churchgoers know that—many churches have been terrible witnesses through this). 

There is one or two I know of that have been reasonable, but not as cautious as we are. I might be able to attend there later, though I don’t know if they are making an effort to include the typically involved folks that pulled back to go online.

I think what bothers me the most is that the non-maskers or sort-of maskers feel persecuted—they act like they are in the minority, and it’s just not true! Our local health department has completely stopped communicating on FB, and I am pretty sure they aren’t enforcing mask mandates because people are posting all kinds of indoor events with no masks. While churches have been allowed to opt in vs. being required to take precautions here, other businesses are not exempt.

 

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HSmomof2

HSmomof2

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8 minutes ago, kbutton said:

There is one or two I know of that have been reasonable, but not as cautious as we are. I might be able to attend there later, though I don’t know if they are making an effort to include the typically involved folks that pulled back to go online.

I think what bothers me the most is that the non-maskers or sort-of maskers feel persecuted—they act like they are in the minority, and it’s just not true! Our local health department has completely stopped communicating on FB, and I am pretty sure they aren’t enforcing mask mandates because people are posting all kinds of indoor events with no masks. While churches have been allowed to opt in vs. being required to take precautions here, other businesses are not exempt.

 

So much the bolded above!! I am so over that attitude. Our church is truly being cautious and carefully following health guidelines, and I am so thankful for that, but they are one of the few local churches doing so. 

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Pen

Pen

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I tried to send you a pm but I think your pm is full.  
 

In gist I am being odd woman out right now to say that I think your daughter’s social needs would lead me to allow attending despite lack of masks. I offered more information about what steps I have taken as a higher risk person so that my son can have the social time he needs. 

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