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Pen last won the day on March 8 2020

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  1. 🙏💕 absolutely!!! I take that joke to heart . And in case things go the opposite way of what most of you here on Wtm believe (if you end up with ADE, or AI, etc. or someone you love does) keep that in mind for yourselves too.
  2. Often people use a word like research, not meaning personal laboratory research . 😎. I was involved in laboratory work off and on up to about age 25, and onr grandfather was a professor/researcher with a sub specialty in immunology. One parent was at times in infectious diseases field. I do know the difference. And I expect you too understand what is meant in context . 😉. . however if you prefer and others agree we can use a different term on Wtm from now on. how about “Investigation” as a less disturbing alternative ?
  3. I agree with you and have been very frustrated with people sharing their illnesses Willy Nilly for years as to the current situation I like this chart, including in re the stay home if sick part, the top line of it - and whether vaccinated or not. I realize some people have work situations that won’t allow this, but certainly at least for optional activities, vacationing, keeping a sick kid home from camp or school, etc :
  4. I have used the phrase and that is not my understanding at all. I truly mean “do your own research”. Literally. And I do not expect that people will then arrive at the same conclusions that I have arrived at. I instead think that if people do their own research the choices they make about things like vax or not vax will be correct for them in their own circumstances and with their own risks. They won’t have huge regrets later, whichever choice they make, about having acted without research and consideration. For many years, and for anyone considering any medical intervention, surgery, medicine, etc, if they are conscious and capable of doing so, I also believe in “do your own research”. IOW it is your body, your life, don’t go into this potentially seriously life changing ____ (treatment, surgery, and now injection...) without carefully looking into it for yourself. Or at least if then choosing not to do ones own research then that too becomes a conscious informed choice. As best I can tell about “Q” aspect of “do your own research” - when I have heard that, it is a little different than what I mean with regard to medical issues and has to do with trying to get people to think for themselves in general, not to rely on CNN, Fox, etc, nor on the person saying whatever is being said. And a response along the lines of “I did my own research and came to a different conclusion” is completely acceptable to the people I know now who you would probably consider to be directly or indirectly Q influenced.
  5. I try to have kindness most of the time for people on both sides of the vax divide as I think people on both sides are in their own ways trying to save others . I have disabling and painful AI which may be related to past vaccines so I undoubtedly take that much more seriously than someone without that experience would. It is undoubtedly impossible to really understand it if you have not lived it. You are apparently off “ignore” now, and I’ll leave that at least for now. The reason I put you on ignore was not because your ideas disagreed with mine (~99% of people on Wtm have ideas that disagree with mine Afaik) but because I found myself having unkind feelings towards/about you— which is quite rare for me. And I put you on ignore because I was having a hard time changing those feelings. It may be that my own feelings of unkindness toward you came as a response to an inner recognition, even before you had so plainly stated it, that you do not feel kindness toward people who disagree with you.
  6. Not limiting much at this stage. I do try to put it at at least a little distance when not actually using it — for health reasons. I do carry it in pocket some but realizing how much I was doing that I put an emf shielding piece of fabric toward my body Limited always when homeschool was in session (also applied to non emergency disruptions/use of landlines and computers), and when my son was younger (easier to do for me than many people because home had no service then, so it was only something I did when at places there was service such as while waiting as he did his sports ). Wifi that we now got in our area, and electronics are turned off at night still
  7. I like this too. I think I’ll adopt it for some situations.
  8. Yes. I agree. I think both asking for sources and saying “I disagree” are likely to be interpreted as conversation continuers. I think some form of “I don’t want to talk about that” plus a redirect to a different subject is needed. I do not know what the original conversation was exactly about, but it should probably be realized that especially for people who think the vaccines are going to lead to long term AI, or other chronic illness, or even death, that them saying something may be from a place of deep caring hoping to perhaps help a friend or acquaintance or perhaps that person’s children not to have such problems down the road. If so, a kind reply plus redirect is especially needed. I like the first form of conversation redirect I offered in my first reply for most irl subjects that I want to move away from. I think I learned some form of that from Miss Manners or some etiquette columnist along those lines. It is both polite and also more than anything else I have tried often effective. It does not directly say “I disagree “ but that’s usually conveyed I think without saying the words which words tend to indicate a desire to discuss it or to elicit rebuttals. In some cases, possibly a slightly humorous yet direct way of saying “I disagree” could be used, like saying, “I chose the blue pill already. If you want to “red pill” someone better go find someone else. I’d be a complete waste of your time. But what I would really like to know is ___” how you grow such beautiful roses, taught your children such an excellent crawl stroke, Or, do you know any good plumbers locally, or so forth
  9. Conceivably you could even let the person you mentioned know now that you aren’t interested in the information after all. It could be expressed as a benefit to them not to go to the work of gathering info and emailing because you already have your mind made up and disagree, and how about next time you meet you discuss mutual Interest in cilantro, roses, ancient Greek drama...
  10. Have a non inflammatory topic (or several) of mutual interest ready at tip of tongue. Redirect to new topic as quickly as possible. Say, “you know, Jo, I have heard about that, but what I’d really like to get your thoughts about is how to grow roses that are as beautiful as yours are.”
  11. and the “absolute effectiveness rate” was tiny not 40% at all https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33652582/
  12. 1) many vaccinated people have very different risk than I have as a personal health matter regardless of how they “evaluate” it. 2) some people even if it were possible to have identical risk situations I am sure would, yes, evaluate it very differently 3) snip - privacy . 4) For myself, this gives one useful way to think about cost/benefit analysis (for example, even if you disagree with him, to be able to understand how something could have a greater net negative even if it appears to have some positive stats):
  13. Pen


    I don’t understand. It seems like following professional advice would be correct thing to do.
  14. Pen


    Tell him to ask boss about his pay. Let him find some other way to get to work not involving you or your vehicle (maybe he can borrow a bike from a friend or carpool). And let him learn himself, (or offer to sit down and help him analyze the financial situation if he’s open to that). if he wants to borrow money to go to a special event let him borrow from a friend
  15. By claiming “no problems” I mean personally in individual cases. And I do believe some people I know who got it have had truly no problems. Not even a short localized pain reaction. Whether that will remain true long term, or after boosters, IDK. Some were in categories where risk levels made it at least in theory seem like a right side up risk / benefit analysis. For myself and many people I know the risk / benefit analysis is upside down. From my own study of immunology back in school the “herd” idea doesn’t make sense as a reason when a vaccine is “leaky”. (Eta- actually that’s follow up study since as those concepts weren’t in play at that time.) I know we differ on our opinions about that. I agree that we have lots of data. We interpret it differently.
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