If your child wanted to pursue...

[EMS83]

Just responding to OP: yes, but I would be very up front about the pay range, the cost of living in various regions, and start sharing my budgeting with them so they could see what financial juggling looks like in real life.  Then if they're still interested, teach them frugality--unit cost shopping, homemade cleaners, cooking with staples, etc.

[marbel]

My DH went into a career that was his passion but has horrible hours and doesn't pay well. He has changed careers after many years of struggle. He has said many times that he wished his parents would has talked with him about it before went into the career. Not that he would have listened...

 

Yeah, most people don't listen to their parents anyway.  And sometimes parents don't know best. Mine didn't...

 

My dad was paying for my college, so he called the shots.  I started off as a business major, per his instructions, even though I knew I was not suited to it.  I hated it; got the first D of my life (finite math) and only got through my first two years because of my humanities programs. After those ended, I dropped out, got married stupidly, and ended up working in office jobs and then divorced 3 years later.  I went back to school as an English major - and a working adult, going at night - and graduated the year my dad died.  (of course by that time I was paying my own tuition, which was cheap.)

 

But that was in a time when people could get decent jobs without a degree, and even a generic English degree wasn't scoffed at as useless.  I had pretty good jobs till I quit to have kids.

 

My father meant well, but he gave me lousy advice.  I should never have gone into business.  An English degree, with a concentration in technical writing, would have been a much better fit from the start.  

Edited June 2, 2017 by marbel

[foxbridgeacademy]

DD has two interests in life, makeup (as in theater/special effects) and helping make the World a better place, she's unlikely to make much $$ at either one.  DH and I have discussed and agreed that we will help her out no matter which way she goes (most likely Peace Corps, and non-profit sector).  We'd do the same for DS but his main goal is to make money while improving the World (Green Energy) and he has no intention of being poor.  

[madteaparty]

Actually, if this field is in the arts, feel free to get them to PM me for a real look at what happens to the majority of those following a pure arts path. It ain't pretty. I am happy to scare anyone's children off following a career as a poet, novelist, playwright or journalist.. It doesn't even matter if you have talent - talent is the least of it.

I may need your services. Not yet though. Basically I've told DS he can do what he wants but to enjoy his childhood as I'm not sure he'll ever have it this good. I'm always engaged in magical thinking though and open to miracles big and small ;)

[wintermom]

There are so many educational opportunities available in the world today, I think  my only super strong suggestion is that my children try a lot of different work-related things in their teens in order to get a better sense of what they enjoy doing and what they are good at. Then when they've made an informed decision, try to gain the highest level of education in that area. If there are 2 equal choices, make sure you keep up with the toughest and most adaptable option - take a little longer if needed to keep both going during the education. 

 

Most people switch educational pathways and/or careers at least once in their lifetime. If they have a good foundation in one area, it's a lot easier to move to other areas. And getting the highest level of education you can early, no matter what it might be, means you have more time to use it and build on it. 

 

 

Edited June 2, 2017 by wintermom

[snickerplum]

I appreciate all of the responses. I wanted to see what everyone thought before getting specific. [emoji4]

Our oldest wants to dance professionally (ballet). She's good. And it's not just us as parents thinking our baby is special, we're being told she is good (teachers, directors, studio owners, etc). She's young still and has several years before we need to hammer down a college choice, but we're setting her on a path that will help her achieve her goals.

Unless she's part of a crazy nice company and a prima ballerina, she won't be earning anything close to $50,000.

She understands that this career is short lived and hopes to teach after she's "done". We've thought a business degree would be extremely beneficial, especially if she were to open her own studio. Who knows. She's 11. [emoji4]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bolt.]

She hopes to "teach" as in, become a school teacher? Or she hopes to "teach" as in, give ballet lessons and act as a coach?

 

Are there ways that she can look into what various admirable ballerinas have done before their career (as a day job while they try to "make it") and after their dance career -- other than her coaches (who clearly became coaches)?

 

Can you put her through a 'class' on personal finances to facilitate her in starting to save and invest your/her money in small amounts for her dance goals and her post-dance life?

Edited June 2, 2017 by bolt.

[snickerplum]

She hopes to "teach" as in, become a school teacher? Or she hopes to "teach" as in, give ballet lessons and act as a coach?

 

Are there ways that she can look into what various admirable ballerinas have done before their career (as a day job while they try to "make it") and after their dance career -- other than her coaches (who clearly became coaches)?

 

Can you put her through a 'class' on personal finances to facilitate her in starting to save and invest your/her money in small amounts for her dance goals and her post-dance life?

She would like to teach ballet. She also would like to have a family, but again, with her being 11 we have not discussed if she plans on staying home with them or working after children.

In terms of finances, we're Dave Ramsey folk and she's grown up listening to his podcasts and has attended some FPU classes (we've taught before). So debt, budgeting and the like are not foreign to her. I'm sure as she gets older we'll get into more detail.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dmmetler]

My DD plans to be a herpetologist. After spending time with grad students and recent graduates, she has decided to double major in math/science education and get a k-8 teaching license and a high school teaching certificate for whatever subjects she has enough hours to get (probably high school math, bio, and maybe chemistry). She knows way too many PhD's who can't find jobs-and almost invariably they end up teaching on an alternative certification or emergency license while trying to go to grad school to get the teaching credential. Double majoring at the start gives her the background to go directly into that fallback if the dream job doesn't emerge.

 

I'm definitely not discouraging that. I have an undergrad degree in academic music/wppdwind performance and a graduate degree in musicology-and also one in elementary and early childhood education, that I went back for after reality sunk in.

[The Girls' Mom]

One of my children starts college in the fall to become an elementary school teacher...a job that is notoriously underpaid.  However, it is what she really wants to do, we need good teachers, and if she's frugal, she can eke by.  What I've done is show her the salary ranges and taught her how to live with a budget.  We've also turned down acceptance and scholarships at a more expensive school because what she'd still have to pay is more than she'd have to pay at a state school.  On a teacher's salary she cannot swing large student loan debt.  She's aware that it isn't a lucrative career, and it is ultimately her choice to make.

[Matryoshka]

One of my dds is looking at careers with questionable earnings - she wants to study Philosophy and Linguistics with a side of Anthropology, with the long goal being working as a Professor (which is more than likely to be adjunct work the way tenured positions are disappearing) or maybe working in a museum.  Low wages, questionable benefits, lots of education required.  Sigh.  But it's ridiculous to make her study something she isn't interested in (she's so interested in these things, she's almost giddy).  So the goal is to have her graduate debt-free.  It's way easier to manage on a tiny income without having to pay back loans.

 

  

[Donna]

My dd's passion is music.

 

She has not decided what to study in college yet. We have had many, many discussions about lifestyle choices and possibilities and people we know with similar interests who have followed different paths from pursuing music full time to having other careers and doing music in evenings and weekends. She knows people who are successfully doing things she'd like to do. We talk about how people go about doing these things and what sacrifices they make. She knows people who were not very successful at the same. We discuss why this might be. We discuss her options and the likelihood of achieving her goals. We discuss ways to make her dreams a possibility, how to branch out and broaden her options, and also other non-music related career options she might also be interested in. 

 

I don't know what path she will chose but I will support her in whatever decisions she makes. She will have her eyes wide open. She will sacrifice and work hard...it's who she is.

[gstharr]

I really will not be bothered if the 6th grader pursued his dream, as long as fulfillment of that dream requires a j.d, m.d, or m.b.a.

[Evergreen State Sue]

We tell our kids to pursue a career that they will enjoy because they will be doing it a long time.  That being said, I think they will figure out if what they pursue will pay the bills or not.  Perhaps they will have to take on a second job or use their passion as a hobby to still bring them enjoyment. 

[creekland]

I really will not be bothered if the 6th grader pursued his dream, as long as fulfillment of that dream requires a j.d, m.d, or m.b.a.

 

Let me just add that I'm glad you aren't my parent... ;)

 

I love the life we have and neither hubby nor I have any of those degrees.  Only one of my kids is aiming toward one and that literally is all his choice - certainly not due to the money or perceived prestige involved.  I'm sticking with telling my kids to figure out what they like and follow that path.  So far they've done quite well for themselves with that advice.  Youngest - a college junior - already has two standing offers for jobs upon graduation and will likely have more opportunities.  Oldest is already employed in a job he really enjoys (and pays the bills for him and his wife).  Middle is my md kid.

[Spryte]

My perspective is probably skewed: I was raised by a fairly well known metal artist. I grew up in the art show world, surrounded by artists supporting themselves on their art. I never, never thought the art world was easy or all following passions. I knew it was business first, art second. Though, the art was the reason for the business. And the best artists, the ones who made it and continued supporting themselves year after year were the best business people. They were the ones I knew well - because we were together all the time, year after year, and they were/are my surrogate aunts and uncles. They were always clear with me that it was a business. In my world, oddly, art was the fall back. If all else failed, I knew I could go that way. It probably sounds backwards to most. :) So I got my degrees and worked in my field and when my health got in the way - I switched to art, and supported myself for four years. Then we adopted and I stayed home. I still think of art as a fallback, if we need it.

 

A person I love deeply was not just heavily encouraged but pressured into engineering. One of his parents said she would only help pay for college if he majored in it. He failed miserably the first year, and ended it with a near successful suicide attempt on the day meant to honor that particular parent. It was ugly. He switched to his chosen field after that, in the arts but a marketable skill, and finished his degree. He works in his field, he has a real job with benefits. I'm proud of him. He won't make boatloads of money, I don't think, but he will be decently employed as long as he chooses to keep at it.

 

I have no idea what DS or DD will do. So much can change. But I will be supportive of almost any choice they make, and help how I can. Part of that will be making sure they know the pros and cons of their choices.

[marbel]

Just responding to OP: yes, but I would be very up front about the pay range, the cost of living in various regions, and start sharing my budgeting with them so they could see what financial juggling looks like in real life.  Then if they're still interested, teach them frugality--unit cost shopping, homemade cleaners, cooking with staples, etc.

 

I agree though this puzzles me a little.  Everyone should be taught how to live frugally, how to shop, how to cook with staples, etc., regardless of their career path.  A person can train for the most lucrative field ever and something can happen such that they need to be able to live on little money (even if only temporarily).  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I really will not be bothered if the 6th grader pursued his dream, as long as fulfillment of that dream requires a j.d, m.d, or m.b.a.

 

 

Let me just add that I'm glad you aren't my parent... ;)

 

I love the life we have and neither hubby nor I have any of those degrees.  Only one of my kids is aiming toward one and that literally is all his choice - certainly not due to the money or perceived prestige involved.  I'm sticking with telling my kids to figure out what they like and follow that path.  So far they've done quite well for themselves with that advice.  Youngest - a college junior - already has two standing offers for jobs upon graduation and will likely have more opportunities.  Oldest is already employed in a job he really enjoys (and pays the bills for him and his wife).  Middle is my md kid.

 

 

Yep.

 

But if the quoted is serious and not a joke, the main thing we all learn, gstharr, is that when our young people are older than 11 or 12 and actually on the brink of starting their adult life, we (most of us) care a LOT more about whether they're whole, healthy, and happy than whether they are chasing down a string of letters behind their name.

 

The two are not mutually exclusive. There are people meant to be MBAs who are well-adjusted and totally fine. But there are a lot more young people who need to do something else, and will do that other thing to the best of their ability. They deserve our pride, respect, and love.

 

You WILL care more that he's well and making good decisions than what he goes to school for, I am 100% sure (unless you are a very crappy parent).

[Nan in Mass]

...

 

I am trying to think of non-arts passions. Sport? Actually, I think there is more chance of a living wage in the sports world. Looking after small children? Aged care? Care pays badly AND wears you out.

Video game designers

Nurses (if you can't afford a ton of education)

Activists

Teachers

Social workers

 

Here at least...

 

Nan

[Bambam]

I have encouraged and will continue to encourage my children to chose a career path that should pay a salary you can live on and that there should be lots of opportunities for. 

 

I told them I didn't buy a house with a basement because I would prefer they not move back home and live in my basement.

 

But, the truth of that is that I live in TX. I've never seen a home in TX with a basement. 

 

But it still stands. I want them to, if possible, be able to live independently of their parents. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Bambam

[creekland]

I told them I didn't buy a house with a basement because I would prefer they not move back home and live in my basement. 

 

We told ours we'd be moving into their basement...  :lol:

[Reefgazer]

I have a kid like this; she has wanted to be a farmer from a young age (4-5).  I am very worried about how her financial stability will pan out, but it is her decision and I will facilitate her success any way I can by getting her courses, experience, internships, etc...  However, I have had a talk with her about farming being a life of poverty and relentless physical labor with no vacations, and based on that, she has decided to double major and combine farming with a business degree so that she will be more competitive in her field.  I've made it clear to her that she must be self-supporting, even if it's at a low standard.

Edited June 2, 2017 by reefgazer

[Misha]

My husband did this when he was younger. Followed his passion, got a fine arts degree. He owes a ton in student loans and went back to school for something practical. Now he owes a ton more in student loans, but now he has a great career with a lot of growth potential. 

 

I wouldn't discourage my children from following their hearts, but I stress, and will continue to stress, just how important it is to be able to have marketable skills to fall back on.

[Jenny in Florida]

Both of my kids are pursuing careers in the arts. Both have understood from early on that doing so means making sacrifices in other areas of their lives. Both are okay with that.

 

I've heard it said that no one should pursue a career in performance unless they truly cannot imagine doing anything else. That seems to be true for both of my kids. So, how I feel about it is that I'm happy they have found what makes them happy, and I'm committed to doing whatever I can to help them find ways to be successful.

 

We raised them in a fairly frugal way. Neither of them are used to living in the lap of luxury, so it's not an especially rude shock when they have to make do and live simply on a smaller budget. We consider it our responsibility to see each of them through to an undergraduate degree without requiring them to take on debt, so that they don't carry those burdens with them when they are trying to move towards independence. And we've done our best to help them set and maintain reasonable expectations and to develop good habits about using their resources. 

Edited June 2, 2017 by Jenny in Florida

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't want to discourage her, but the whole "reach for the stars-you can do anything honey" seems fake to me. In reality a lot of people can't just be anything they want to be. When I was her age, I wanted to be the first woman pope, lol...Some things are just not realistic.

 

I think there's a whole broad spectrum of possibilities between "Be practical and get a STEM degree even if you hate it" and "Underwater ballet sounds like a great career, and you'll be a star!"

 

When it became clear that my daughter was going to be committed to an arts career, we talked about why it was important to her. I told her honestly that, although I think she's very talented and she has always been super driven, there is no way to predict whether things will break in her favor. There are just too many ingredients that go into the blender. I told her that, if she was willing to work hard and take jobs that didn't necessarily float her boat artistically and focus on making a living rather than being a star, she could probably support herself. It wouldn't be easy, but I thought she could do it. I made sure she had the opportunity to meet and interact with lots of people in our local arts community who were making a living pursuing their passions, although not always in the most obvious ways. I pointed out all of the people she knew who were bringing in an income by teaching, for example, or by working in administration in various arts organizations while performing on the side. 

 

I emphasized repeatedly that I was not trying to talk her out of her choice and that I believed in her talent. In fact, I respected her and her talent enough to want her to be prepared for reality.

 

She's now 22 and has been living on her own and supporting herself for three years. She has a B.A. (which we financed) and a two-year certificate from a well-respected acting program (which she paid for herself). She supports herself mostly with admin work at a large dance studio and works smaller teaching and performance gigs on the side. She lives quite frugally. After a few years of this, she's been able to narrow her focus a bit in terms of what she wants to do for the long term and is in the process of preparing to apply for graduate school. She is determined not to take on debt, knowing that her chosen career will likely not be especially lucrative, and so is searching out low-cost options and exploring an assortment of funding sources.

 

I'm super excited for her.

[amy g.]

Two of my children chose on their own to keep their passions as hobbies rather than majors/jobs. My son said, "I'm just afraid that doing this for a living will make me hate the thing I love."

 

My problem with parents trying to steer kids in the right direction is that things change. Job markets change. Demand changes. What is the hot career choice now may be a bust or a glutt in a couple of years.

 

I try to make sure that my kids are flexible, creative thinkers with a solid foundation and amazing work ethics. That way they are ready for changes in the job market, changes in the economy, changes in their personal needs. These are the skills that will allow them to be sucessful and support themselves.

 

In the past 18 months, my son has turned an entry level $10 an hour job into a salaried one where he makes twice what I made out of college as a first year teacher. He did it by always being the person who worked smarter and harder than anyone else on staff.

 

But that isn't enough for him. He has also started another business selling Chinese junky junk in Mexico. I told him that this has been his talent since he was 10 years old and making gold coins buying and selling on Runescape.

 

He is a person who cares about making money, so he is going to make sure he makes money.

 

Dd on the other hand cares nothing about material goods. We are not worried about her applying to PhD programs in English because we know she has a low level of material needs and will be able to meet them even if she does not have a "high paying job".

 

She took the money we gave her for Fall semester tuition and living expenses and made it last through the Spring semester as well and still had enough left over to pay summer school tuition for herself and her sister too.

 

Why would I take a kid like that and push her into a high paying career where she would never be happy?

 

In the end, my kids are all terribly practical. They have been given permission to know themselves, know what makes them happy and pursue those goals rather than their parents'.

[zaichiki]

Both of my kids are pursuing careers in the arts. Both have understood from early on that doing so means making sacrifices in other areas of their lives. Both are okay with that.

 

I've heard it said that no one should pursue a career in performance unless they truly cannot imagine doing anything else. That seems to be true for both of my kids. So, how I feel about it is that I'm happy they have found what makes them happy, and I'm committed to doing whatever I can to help them find ways to be successful.

Jenny,

 

Your dd's blog is wonderful! Thanks for sharing it.

[gardenmom5]

I appreciate all of the responses. I wanted to see what everyone thought before getting specific. [emoji4]

Our oldest wants to dance professionally (ballet). She's good. And it's not just us as parents thinking our baby is special, we're being told she is good (teachers, directors, studio owners, etc). She's young still and has several years before we need to hammer down a college choice, but we're setting her on a path that will help her achieve her goals.

Unless she's part of a crazy nice company and a prima ballerina, she won't be earning anything close to $50,000.

She understands that this career is short lived and hopes to teach after she's "done". We've thought a business degree would be extremely beneficial, especially if she were to open her own studio. Who knows. She's 11. [emoji4]

 

 

she's 11... .My friend's dd wanted to dance.  she's good.   she's  not good enough to dance professionally and have it pay her bills.  she finally went and got her Med. and is teaching dance.

 

no matter what she does - business/economics classes are beneficial in helping her to understand how it works.  she can teach for someone else - or she can do her own school - in which case she needs to understand business.

 

She hopes to "teach" as in, become a school teacher? Or she hopes to "teach" as in, give ballet lessons and act as a coach?

 

Are there ways that she can look into what various admirable ballerinas have done before their career (as a day job while they try to "make it") and after their dance career -- other than her coaches (who clearly became coaches)?

 

Can you put her through a 'class' on personal finances to facilitate her in starting to save and invest your/her money in small amounts for her dance goals and her post-dance life?

 

we've a friend who opened her own ballet studio.  (and a building to house it.)  she ran it for a number of years until she was ready to move on - and then sold it.   it was a side business to what her dh was doing.  it wouldn't have supported them.  and she was good enough to be able  to take her most advanced students to russia.  she even traded lessons with some of her advanced students for hauling her son around for his swim practice.  (swimming  paid for his college.)

 

I really will not be bothered if the 6th grader pursued his dream, as long as fulfillment of that dream requires a j.d, m.d, or m.b.a.

 

I hope this is a joke.

I've known jd's and mbas who don't make that much - what and where you practice is a big determiner of income.

2ds is working towards his cpa - and one of the first people he worked for was a cpa who only did basic bookkeeping.  now he's interning at real cpa firm.  (re: more than basic bookkeeping)

 

dh has two nephews - one has multiple degrees, including a ma in various - he's a classical musician.  does a number of odd jobs, including teaching at a uni, to make ends meet.  his jd wife divorced him, and his lifestyle has taken a big hit as he makes a fraction of what she did. 

his brother - was a high school dropout who got his GED. . . . he makes six figures in tech.  re:more than his brother with multiple degrees.

 

 

 

 

~~~

about following passions . . . 1dd majored in classics.  ((absolutely flourished.  ta'd/taught the class for the dept chair one-day a week - realized she did NOT want to teach, and didn't really want to do digs in the med.  on top of all the unemployed classics phds out there.))  I tried to get her to look at it more objectively.  "what are you going to do with that?"  she would get angry and didn't want to think about it.  I suggested using it as an undergrad.  contract law (latin was her favorite language, and she loved nuance). she loves language, and has a real gift for it.  language for her - is a toy with which to play.  I at least got her to look at it as an undergrad.  Irony is - she wanted nothing to do with computers.  she did consider a phd in computational linguistics - but her health really didn't allow her to pursue it at that time.  now . . .

she's a techie.  computers are just another language - and language is a toy.  but she had to get the certs to do it.  she's now the head of a the tech dept at a local company (approx 200ppl) and reports to the ceo. 

anyone can get those certs without a college degree. - re: nephew who does similar with only a ged.

 

and about finding passions . . . kids may not be able to find one without exposure to things.   re: my niece, got a degree in microbiology - and as low man on the totem pole was tasked with caring for the database at a major university lab.  she fell in love with it (when the database crashed "v, save us". . . such power.)  - and makes a very good income doing something she never would have supposed she'd love.

I once worked for a dr whose father was a surgeon.  she wanted NOTHING to do with medicine - but didn't know what she wanted, so she majored in english.  took a research bio class for fun and loved it.  "oh, I can do this".  her father sat her down and asked her if she wanted to take the orders or give the orders . . . . she became a surgeon - and gives the orders.

1dd's HS chem teach got his BS and MS from yale . . . I asked him why he was teaching high school chemistry?  he found research boring.  he's now at a very expensive local private school and does school field trips to the galapagos islands . . . .

 

eta: that's one thing that does need to be considered -growth.  will it get better over time?  or is it a dead end job?  college is no guarantee.

Edited June 2, 2017 by gardenmom5

[kroe1]

I really will not be bothered if the 6th grader pursued his dream, as long as fulfillment of that dream requires a j.d, m.d, or m.b.a.

I certainly can relate to this statement, although I doubt the legality of it completely. I sense the humor.

 

But, we have been fortunate enough to have children capable of an advanced education, and capable of making good money. We have prepared them by allowing the appropriate resources throughout their lives, and by keeping our expectations huge. I would never pay for a college degree that does not have a decent expected economical return. Likewise, it would need an equal amount of prestige as I know the competitiveness of my kids. I do not want them to turn 40 one day with massive regrets (and a home for which they are not proud.).

 

There is nothing wrong with striving for the best of everything including education, materialism, beauty, happiness, character, health, relationship bliss, etc. Earning potential makes some of these things easier to acquire. I have no problem telling my kids I will not pay for a degree in performing arts, but, I have no problem paying for a spot on the college dance team while they are getting a decent degree.

[gardenmom5]

I think there's a whole broad spectrum of possibilities between "Be practical and get a STEM degree even if you hate it" and "Underwater ballet sounds like a great career, and you'll be a star!"

 

1dd, classics major, ended up in stem. (computers) she attended several women in stem  conferences - what made her the most angry, was how those presenting those conferences didn't seem to care about the woman's interest or aptitude in the field - or lack of interest.  just pushed that they should go into it.

 

you have to like what you're doing. enjoy is better, and aptitude should always be considered.

[zaichiki]

... a career that you know does not pay well statistically, how do you feel about that? It's their dream, but most of the rewards will be praise from others and self satisfaction, not monetary compensation. Money is not everything in life, but it can be helpful. [emoji6] I would never discourage this career, but it also seems like setting this child up for struggles.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

*Many jobs don't pay well.

 

If my child has a dream, I want to encourage that.  Not everyone has a dream or the strength to pursue it. It's something special.

 

I think, by and large, we are educating our kids for jobs that don't exist yet.  This world is changing so fast right now... we have no idea what they'll end up faced with 10 or 20 or 30 years from now... what the opportunities could be... and people change their minds, change jobs, and take "do-overs" *all* the time.  I wouldn't worry yet.

[madteaparty]

I really will not be bothered if the 6th grader pursued his dream, as long as fulfillment of that dream requires a j.d, m.d, or m.b.a.

You know, I joke that I'm secretly saving for law school but having two of those three degrees you favor in my immediate family, you want to be careful you don't have expensively educated unhappy young people on your hands :) if you're going to insist on law or business school, might as well insist on top 5 ones at the very least ;) just a JD doesn't cover it anymore unless you're leaving them a practice.

*sarcasm alert* *i don't believe any of this*

Edited June 2, 2017 by madteaparty

[littlebug42]

I have two children both interested in artistic paths.  I support both of them completely in whatever they want to do.  I have a degree in theatre and no one could have persuaded me to do anything different either.  The world needs artists and entertainers just as much as they need lawyers.  It would be a pretty boring place without them.  I have given them very realistic expectations.  It is still theirs to pursue.  Their life.  Not mine.

 

My husband has a degree in computer engineering.  He has a well paying job in that field.  He is miserable every day when he goes to work.  He hates it so much but feels he has no options.  Money doesn't guarantee happiness.

 

Still to this day, theatre is what feeds my soul.  It has been that way since I was 9 years old.  I still define myself as an actor/director with a day job.  That is who I am at heart.  My children feel this drive and passion as well.

Edited June 2, 2017 by littlebug42

[gardenmom5]

I certainly can relate to this statement, although I doubt the legality of it completely. I sense the humor.

 

But, we have been fortunate enough to have children capable of an advanced education, and capable of making good money. We have prepared them by allowing the appropriate resources throughout their lives, and by keeping our expectations huge. I would never pay for a college degree that does not have a decent expected economical return. Likewise, it would need an equal amount of prestige as I know the competitiveness of my kids. I do not want them to turn 40 one day with massive regrets (and a home for which they are not proud.).

 

There is nothing wrong with striving for the best of everything including education, materialism, beauty, happiness, character, health, relationship bliss, etc. Earning potential makes some of these things easier to acquire. I have no problem telling my kids I will not pay for a degree in performing arts, but, I have no problem paying for a spot on the college dance team while they are getting a decent degree.

 

this.

 

I got the message through to my kids (some more strongly than others) that whatever education they got - it needed to produce an income that would support a family. and they did not want an income that was only 'scraping by'.

 

eta: and it is possible to love what you do.  my boys took their sweet time figuring out what they wanted to do . . . and there were days I wondered . . . . but they both love what they're majoring in now.

Edited June 2, 2017 by gardenmom5

[imagine.more]

If my child will be able to support himself (on any scale, doesn't have to be to my standard) AND will make/gain enough to pay back the loans/time/risk he took out in order to train for this career, I will support him 100%.

 

If nobody felt this way, we'd have no schoolteachers, law enforcement officers, military personnel, or clergy...

Yes, you're right about that for sure. It requires idealistic people not focused on money to enter those civil service jobs. (Firefighters too, their low pay is just criminal!)

 

Having been a teacher married to a clergyman... I actively encourage my kids to seek out more financially stable careers. I just can't bear to see them struggle like we have and do. Right now the boys are leaning towards scientist/Catholic priest, and pharmacist. I support those. I worry at the cost of seminary but I hear Catholic seminary is structured differently from Protestant seminaries, which are entirely paid for like normal grad school by students except for 4 years straight of studies rather than two. And I'm going to insist he make sure he's debt free if/when he enters seminary. Thank God the kid's insanely smart so he should be capable of going to undergrad on a full scholarship.

 

DH and I knew our careers early on, so we take our kids seriously when they express a desire for a career. And I will not let them delude themselves into thinking they can realistically grow up to be an artist or writer or something as their main career. We encourage hobbies and side jobs, but they'll need to have a main job to pay for food and housing as well. I just can't watch my kids in poverty and we'll likely never have the means to help because of our own poor career choices.

[MaeFlowers]

This is a tough discussion in our house. Though I do believe that colleges degrees aee important, our family is not very representative of that. When our dc look around at their family, financial success actually runs on the inverse to the level of education.

 

So, my answer is, we talk. We talk about the strengths and weaknesses of various fields. We talk about the risks. We talk about why people in the same field have vastly different outcomes. Ultimately, I hope that these discussions help to mitigate the level of risk they are exposed to regardless of the field they choose.

Edited June 2, 2017 by MaeFlowers

[Twolittleboys]

As long as the pay is enough to sustain a basic lifestyle AND the child is clearly aware of this from the beginning, I don't see why not. First of all, earnings potential can not really be predicted (there are rich poets and struggling scientists). I do feel an enjoyable profession that doesn't pay much can be best for some (even if it is working as a surfing teacher). I am not so crazy about preparing for a job where there are no jobs or for which the person is not suited as it seems a waste. I also would want the child to have some fall-back skills in case they change their mind or for cases in which the job will not be possible once they reach a certain age.

[FriedClams]

I like Mike Rowe's perspective on why "follow your passion" is bad advice: https://www.google.com/amp/yellowhammernews.com/faithandculture/alabamian-gets-schooled-mike-rowe-dirty-jobs/amp/

[Carrie12345]

... a career that you know does not pay well statistically, how do you feel about that? It's their dream, but most of the rewards will be praise from others and self satisfaction, not monetary compensation. Money is not everything in life, but it can be helpful. [emoji6] I would never discourage this career, but it also seems like setting this child up for struggles.

 

 

I don't want to raise someone who mooches off taxpayers because he/she thinks "passion" is more important than paying his/her own bills. It's one thing to rely on government assistance because the person is not able to "living wage" job (my disabled child may wind up in this situation). It's another thing to have the ability to earn a decent living but make a deliberate choice not to.

 

 

I don't assume passion = recreational hobby. 

Maybe the person wants to be a nun. Or work in an animal rescue. Or be a social worker.   All jobs that'll earn you under $50,000 a year most of your life.  All passion projects.

 

 

Statistically, especially in our general area, firefighting doesn't pay the kind of salary I'd like to see my kids make. 911 operators, another career of interest, make even less.  I feel sorry for anyone who might dare to tell me in person that my kid is looking to be a mooch.

 

But I come from a family full of mooches  people in education and foster care services.

[Pawz4me]

 

 

I am trying to think of non-arts passions. Sport? Actually, I think there is more chance of a living wage in the sports world. Looking after small children? Aged care? Care pays badly AND wears you out. 

 

For DS18 it's political science, criminal justice and history. None lead to particularly well paying careers unless one pursues a law degree. And even that path hasn't been a particularly good one in the past decade or so.

[bettyandbob]

I am helping my dc earn undergrad degrees. They are choosing their majors. They know they have to figure out what to do when they finish. 

 

I will not help anyone take on loans for undergrad degrees. I have said I will not help with loans for anything. (but there is never say never--my brother did help his dd pay for med school, it's clear she  can pay him back and he's wealthy to begin with). 

 

It didn't do me much good to push me in a direction I didn't want. I wanted to be a physical therapist, but to my parents that was a terrible job. I wasted a lot of years doing what my dad wanted and I have multiple degrees that led to that career. I've wasted time wondering if I would have liked what I wanted. I'm pretty sure I would have. I work in recreation now. I study anatomy and movement on my own to be able to make suggestions for older people or people with disabilities who are trying to find new ways to move. That is my favorite part of what I do. It's just a small part. 

 

I am firmly against having my dc be 30 years down the road still wondering what if. So, they major in what they want. They know they have to find a job. 

 

The truth is if you get a STEM degree and you aren't any good, you could be less employable than the history major who is absolutely passionate about history. If you start looking around there are places to volunteer, as well as get internships to build a resume that could morph into a job. That path may not be obvious for the history major (or dance major or classics major), but it's there. And if they don't initially find a job in field, they've still got a resume that shows they are hard workers. For that reason I may encourage trying to add something obviously marketable. (again that's up to my dc to decide to do not me). If one is in college majoring in history, GIS classes would be a nice add on to history, but can also land a decent paying job on its own. Or just getting Microsoft applications certification can land a decent paying,  benefits included admin job. One does not need to work part time minimum wage just because they didn't land a job in their field. And those little admin jobs can be the foot in the door to so many things. 

 

So, no I won't tell my kids what to study. 

 

 

[marbel]

<snip>

 

And if they don't initially find a job in field, they've still got a resume that shows they are hard workers. For that reason I may encourage trying to add something obviously marketable.

 

<snip>

 

 

One of the things we are talking to our kids about are marketable skills, but also doing things that show they can learn new skills and can work.

 

One of my kids took an adult-ed introductory welding class because he has an interest in metalwork.  He is also a volunteer firefighter (at our very small, "neighborhood" fire station that gets very few calls).  He worked with a friend doing construction for a month one summer, learning some skills - not  enough to get a job as a carpenter or anything like that, but learning. He got a summer job based on those things on his resume, at a welding shop - not actually doing any welding, but doing general helper work.  He's learning new skills from that job too.  

 

He's one planning a history major and is thinking of historic preservation.  All the skills he's picking up may be helpful in that area too.  Or maybe not... we'll have to see.  At least we know he can learn, and work hard.  

[DawnM]

Just had this conversation recently.  

 

Now, if he said, "Mom, I feel called into ministry and want to be a music pastor" I would not argue.  I might have a conversation about how that will look and what he should be looking at (small church with part time work won't support a family, maybe look at some other aspects like IT within music that could translate into IT jobs if necessary, etc....) but I wouldn't say no.

 

But I do want him to be 100% aware of:

 

Job prospects of his chosen field

Salary expectations vs. needed to live/support a family

Competition for said career

 

 

[bettyandbob]

I appreciate all of the responses. I wanted to see what everyone thought before getting specific. [emoji4]

Our oldest wants to dance professionally (ballet). She's good. And it's not just us as parents thinking our baby is special, we're being told she is good (teachers, directors, studio owners, etc). She's young still and has several years before we need to hammer down a college choice, but we're setting her on a path that will help her achieve her goals.

Unless she's part of a crazy nice company and a prima ballerina, she won't be earning anything close to $50,000.

She understands that this career is short lived and hopes to teach after she's "done". We've thought a business degree would be extremely beneficial, especially if she were to open her own studio. Who knows. She's 11. [emoji4]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

At 11, a lot can happen. 

 

My dd's small dance studio regularly produces people who pursue the field professionally. We know girls who went to Miami City Ballet, Boston Ballet and Mariinski in the last few years. I think (I'm not sure) my dd's graduating class is pretty average for the school. There are 5 girls who graduated last year. At the beginning of high school it was pretty clear that 3 of those girls were talented enough to pursue dance. 1 girl may have wanted to, but was never going to be able to due to disabilities. The last girl was my dd, who enjoyed ballet and had beautiful (I will never know what this means), but knew it wasn't her future. Those 3 girls did lots of summer intensives. They received a lot of guidance about those placements. By midway through junior year 2 of the girls were losing steam. They had seen a lot through their summer intensives and previous opportunities at supernumeraries. They all did intensives that last summer, but during college application season only one girl was auditioning for more programs and companies. 

 

I know the mother of one girl told me her started to notice how company dancers treated each other at one of her summer intensives and that was a dark side the girl did not want to be a part of. 

 

The girl who is dancing professionally, had to work the hardest to get there financially. Her parents are divorced and ballet is expensive. The studio allows some girls to help with classes for younger kids or birthday parties or do costume inventory and repair or anything else that is reasonable for a minor in exchange for some fees. This girl worked a lot. And her mom came up with fees for summer intensives, because as her mom said if she didn't the girl's chances would have been gone. A year after high school graduation this girl is very happy with her path.

 

The mom made sure of some other stuff too: the girl did graduate high school with many advanced academic classes--if her career path has to change she is academically prepared to start over. I've heard that from other families too. I have neighbors whose ds went to San Francisco Ballet at 18. His mother was a chemistry teacher, she made sure he graduated high school with a strong academic record. While at the company he took cc classes when he could. At 28, when his knees were shot, it was time to find a new career. He applied to college and because he was over 24 and had been in a low paying field he got lots of grant money. He went to Stanford and is now in med school. Yes, he'll be 10 years older than other med school grads, but so what, he's proud of his previous career.

 

A girl a couple years older than dd also had a parent who made sure her academics were in order ( she was fluent in Spanish and had taken Calc 3 before high school graduation). I swore she was going to make it in dance, she was very good. She broke her back. She's fine now, but will not be dancing professionally. She's in college now studying math and elementary education and working at the dance studio. 

 

My take is to support the dream to the extent you are able and provide a solid foundation (strong academic training in high school), so that your dc can change course if he/she needs. 

[wintermom]

I believe that with the field of professional dance, people are dealing with many difficult statistics. Few people make it to professional level, and those that do get paid little. Add in that it's an extremely narrow field of expertise and the years one can dance at top level are few because it does bad things to bodies.

 

For some reason, all these reasons seem to be attractive rather than off-putting to millions of girls and their parents. It's strange. It's like the pipe-dream of pro athletics but without any of the actual financial supports along the way (US college scholarships). Playing sport or dancing aren't self-supporting careers in most countries in the world.

 

The ONLY way I'd financially support a child major in dance is if they did a double major at university/college with something else much more practical and adaptable.   

Edited June 2, 2017 by wintermom

[Janeway]

If it were a low paying job and he knows this from the get go, and he can fund himself, then fine. I do feel it is my job to give my children the heads up on what opportunities are out there and help them find their paths to go to where ever it is they want to go. But if my child wanted to attend an expensive ballet school, on my dime, with a low chance of employment when graduating and does not want to teach, only wants to perform, I probably would not support that. I mean, it would not happen on my dime. But if he can make it on his own, his choice. I would support him emotionally.  I hope he would not try to take out tons of loans to fund it. 

[Pam in CT]

My entering-college son is pursuing a passion in an arts-related field that is unlikely to enable him to live as comfortably as he's been raised.  I do wonder if he REALLY understands the full implications of this.  On the other hand he is, of us all, the lowest-maintenance and least materialistic.  I expect he'll be OK.

 

In any event, it's his life.  He'll work it out, later if not sooner.

[wintermom]

I appreciate all of the responses. I wanted to see what everyone thought before getting specific. [emoji4]

Our oldest wants to dance professionally (ballet). She's good. And it's not just us as parents thinking our baby is special, we're being told she is good (teachers, directors, studio owners, etc). She's young still and has several years before we need to hammer down a college choice, but we're setting her on a path that will help her achieve her goals.

Unless she's part of a crazy nice company and a prima ballerina, she won't be earning anything close to $50,000.

She understands that this career is short lived and hopes to teach after she's "done". We've thought a business degree would be extremely beneficial, especially if she were to open her own studio. Who knows. She's 11. [emoji4]

 

 

That is fantastic your dd loves dance, has a talent, and is learning to strive for excellence. These are all wonderful experiences and learning opportunities in her youth. 

 

As a parent, I'd try to keep things in perspective and return to the reason you started her in dance - for fun, fitness and learning to pursue excellence in a structured discipline, perhaps. These are all great things to continue to focus on, while you also continue to provide opportunities for all kinds of other options for her future - academics and other interests. She is still very young, and even though she's all about dance right now, this could change in the blink of an eye. I'd really resist the mindset of "She's going to be a professional dancer."  That's a lot of pressure for a young girl to live up to.

Edited June 2, 2017 by wintermom

[Word Nerd]

At a recent parent-teacher conference, my DD's English teacher said she hoped DD would pursue her writing as a career. Without even meaning to, I let out a groan. I would not wish this business on any young person, least of all my own child. When I was her age, my parents and teachers discouraged me from pursuing a creative writing or fine arts degree or writing books as a career but agreed with me that journalism would be a practical way to use my communications skills—which today makes me laugh hysterically. As an editor I don't even make the average salary for this business, which is already low. But I still have a job for the time being, so at least there's that. Yes, I hope DD keeps writing and never loses that passion, but I would urge her to steer clear of the news publishing industry. 

 

ETA: This made the rounds a few months ago. Pretty much! :lol:

Edited June 2, 2017 by Word Nerd

[Desert Strawberry]

Also I'd examine the difference between work that

doesn't pay well that is "cheap and plentiful" (ie daycare work) vs work that doesn't pay well because very few people can be successfully employed in that field at all (ie synchronized swimming athlete).

 

ETA: these two types could be successfully combined. One type "needs a day job" and the other type make excellent day jobs for people with non-remunerative passions.

 

 

Aries wants to be a you tuber. which is great. i set him up with cheap video equipment to help him get started. however, he needs to also learn a trade. 

 

i worked in childcare because i loved it so much. i worked a LOT. 3-4 jobs at a time. i didn't get paid much, but i also didn't have much time off to spend money, and i loved my job. i'd much rather work on the weekends than go out. for me, it was viable. i went to nursing school and HATED it. my first day on the ward, i came home, sat on my bathroom floor and wept because i had made a terrible mistake. but the pay was good. 

 

i'd much rather my children have a lower-paying job they love, than one that pays well and hurts their soul.