If your child wanted to pursue...

[Paige]

I think it is more important for women, especially those who wish to have kids and take time to be with them, to have a marketable degree. Women are more vulnerable. If they take time off to stay home with kids and the marriage doesn't work out, or for some other reason they need to go back to work, that gap in employment will make things much more difficult for them. Having a technical, specific, high demand degree or skill serves as a form of protection for them. Men don't have the same vulnerabilities on average.

 

I would highly discourage my DDs from having "stay at home mom" as their career goal. It's great if that's what they end up doing and want to do but they need a backup plan just as much as any aspiring actress. 

[creekland]

I have a couple of fine arts kids.  DD12 is at a beginning college level in a fine arts field.  She's obviously very gifted at something which will be almost impossible to make a living off of.  Bummer.  It's like finding out your kid is a highly gifted circus juggler or something.    

 

That's not really the end of the world either.  Middle son - my future md - is working at a juggling camp this summer and getting paid for it.  Had med school not worked out for next year, he'd also been offered a job during that year helping out.  The interesting thing?  He only started juggling two years ago while in college.  He's pretty good though.

 

He's also earned up to $80/hour tutoring.  He had so many clients he upped his fee and thought he'd get fewer requests.  He didn't.  His schedule was full - overfull really.  Oldest gets $60/hour and up assisting people with their technology needs (computers, phones, etc).  Youngest does the same, but doesn't like to charge that much (feels it's gauging) so sticks with $30/hour - at least for now while he's in college.

 

When someone is good at something, there are often options if they are creative.

 

I wasn't so much worried about her income, but I was a tad disappointed because she'd been so incredible at math. I might as well have just thrown a Saxon math book at her (kidding - Saxon people) instead of spending the hours and hours I spent researching different programs, setting up and keeping my math lab running, and helping her with Singapore, Russian Math and AoPS. I kind of thought that whatever she ended up doing, she'd make use of her ability and love of math. Oh well.

 

I feel similarly that my bio/botany boy (since toddlerhood) has moved away from that as a calling.  He still enjoys it, but his job plans don't likely include it except as a hobby.  At least he also likes what he is aiming for - all new stuff to him since entering college.  There are plenty of kids who figure out what they really want to do in college.  

[Storygirl]

I appreciate all of the responses. I wanted to see what everyone thought before getting specific. [emoji4]

Our oldest wants to dance professionally (ballet). She's good. And it's not just us as parents thinking our baby is special, we're being told she is good (teachers, directors, studio owners, etc). She's young still and has several years before we need to hammer down a college choice, but we're setting her on a path that will help her achieve her goals.

Unless she's part of a crazy nice company and a prima ballerina, she won't be earning anything close to $50,000.

She understands that this career is short lived and hopes to teach after she's "done". We've thought a business degree would be extremely beneficial, especially if she were to open her own studio. Who knows. She's 11. [emoji4]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I have some general thoughts about the thread topic, which I may post later, but my time is limited, because soon I'm on my way to DD15's end-of-year ballet performance (of all things!!).

 

There are some specific things to think about when choosing college for a dance major, that are not applicable to other careers, so I thought I'd mention them, in case you don't know.

 

You don't need a college career to pursue a dance career. There are some cons. Chances are that you will never recoup the college costs with future salary. College ballet graduates are competing against the 18 year olds for the same jobs; most of them do not go right into a paid position but join a trainee class or second company, neither of which pay a living wage and some of which require tuition. Once the dance career is over, additional college training is often required for the second career.

 

If DD15 wants to continue her dance pursuits after high school, we will encourage her to dance FIRST and go to college after her dance career is over. Another advantage to this is that after age 24, parent income is not included in the financial aid package for college, so college is likely to be much cheaper.

 

At age 10, we were certain that DD would want a career in ballet. She is also super talented. At age 15, she is much less certain, so be prepared for things to change. In the meantime, research how to get your DD the best ballet training possible, to keep all of the doors open.

 

For the very talented, these choices can be really hard, and as a parent, it can be hard to give good advice. I try to stay educated about trends in the ballet world as much as possible, so that I can help her make good choices.

[iamonlyone]

I appreciate all of the responses. I wanted to see what everyone thought before getting specific. [emoji4]

Our oldest wants to dance professionally (ballet). She's good. And it's not just us as parents thinking our baby is special, we're being told she is good (teachers, directors, studio owners, etc). She's young still and has several years before we need to hammer down a college choice, but we're setting her on a path that will help her achieve her goals.

Unless she's part of a crazy nice company and a prima ballerina, she won't be earning anything close to $50,000.

She understands that this career is short lived and hopes to teach after she's "done". We've thought a business degree would be extremely beneficial, especially if she were to open her own studio. Who knows. She's 11. [emoji4]

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Well, if you want another BTDT perspective:

Our daughter wanted to be a ballerina from the age of four. We waited a couple years and enrolled her in ballet at the age of six. She organized and started teaching homeschool ballet classes (not pointe!) at the age of 13. She earned a childcare certification at a technical college and a college degree (associate's—9 hours short of a BA, so, close, if she decides to finish at some point) at 17 and graduated early from high school. A few months later, now 18, she moved nine hours away for a two-year trainee program she got accepted in. At 20 she moved across the country from us to dance with a small, new company on the East Coast.

 

She supports herself by teaching in the evenings at several studios and was asked to start a ballet program from the ground up at a competition studio when she was 21 (which she is doing). She also does online Internet assessments from home for additional income.

 

Is she rolling in the dough? No. Self-supporting, happy, and "living the dream"? Yes! Do I sometimes wish she had a more stable occupation? Yep. I'm so very proud of her and love to hear about all the impact she is having in the circles where she moves, yet, we both know dancers are always one critical injury away from being done (and of course, dancers age out young), but she holds it all lightly and will move in other directions when the time comes.

 

She is a very strong, mature young woman (now 22) from all of her experiences. Who knows how the road might twist in the future? But I think she is smart, flexible, and resilient enough (and has wonderful professional contacts and friends around the country) to support herself whether in the world of ballet or elsewhere. Time will tell.

[Guest]

That's not really the end of the world either.  Middle son - my future md - is working at a juggling camp this summer and getting paid for it.  Had med school not worked out for next year, he'd also been offered a job during that year helping out.  The interesting thing?  He only started juggling two years ago while in college.  He's pretty good though.

 

He's also earned up to $80/hour tutoring.  He had so many clients he upped his fee and thought he'd get fewer requests.  He didn't.  His schedule was full - overfull really.  Oldest gets $60/hour and up assisting people with their technology needs (computers, phones, etc).  Youngest does the same, but doesn't like to charge that much (feels it's gauging) so sticks with $30/hour - at least for now while he's in college.

 

When someone is good at something, there are often options if they are creative.

 

 

I feel similarly that my bio/botany boy (since toddlerhood) has moved away from that as a calling.  He still enjoys it, but his job plans don't likely include it except as a hobby.  At least he also likes what he is aiming for - all new stuff to him since entering college.  There are plenty of kids who figure out what they really want to do in college.  

 

 

In our relatively small parish, maybe 120 on a given Sunday, about 40 of them are in the young 20s-30s crowd.  Three of them make a good living as visual artists.  Another young man who is the son of our parishioners but does not attend our parish is also making a good living...actually has his art displayed in the National Museums.  Two young people are already earning their keep as photographers.  Where they will go with it depends a lot more on their business acumen than on their talent or skill.  

 

It is harder for our parish to attract/hold performing artists because the times of services overlap too much with the time demands made on performing artists.  But there are a few who fly-in from other parishes when they perform here.  

 

I mention my parish because that is my intersection with young people these days.  

 

I've attended classes with a guy (a National Geographic senior photographer) who helps young artists get started.  He is very plain spoken with them.  He tells them that it is completely possible to make a living as an artist, but that the best major is business.  Minor in the art, and he recommends learning about the classics in art.  He also says that photographers should plan on shooting between 10-20% of their time and the rest of the time, they need to spend focused on their business--packaging, promotion, sales, customer satisfaction.  This information is a big disappointment to those who envision being in exotic locations with full staffs to carry their equipment and a line of people just waiting for the next photograph to emerge.  :0)  

 

My POINT (which I eventually DO get to) is that people can make a living doing what they love.  But they don't get to do ONLY what they love.  

[katilac]

I think people are coming into the discussion with very different ideas about how much money is "not much money," lol. 

 

Police officers have come up several times, as have teachers. There are several police officers in my family, and they make quite a good living. Certainly they aren't rich, but they own homes, eat out, go on vacations, save for retirement. And the teachers in my state make above the median income. 

 

I think those types of careers are a far cry from aiming to be a dancer, artist, writer, or actor. I mean, in those jobs, those making poverty wages are the lucky ones, because at least they're working! Most are not. 

 

For the record, my youngest may pursue a fine arts degree. We would help with a degree in any of those fields, but we would want the student to be smart about a double major or strategic minors. And we would definitely not pay a lot or go into debt. I mean, if you're going to be a starving artist or actor, why go to an expensive school and get used to nice surroundings, lol? 

 

 

Sure sure...but there is nothing that says they can't learn a new skill and get a different job with more stability when they are tired of that. 

 

 

Yes, but that can be a lot harder than it sounds, and it just gets harder as you get older (not harder to get the skill, but harder to break into a new field). I wouldn't just casually assume that one can always just switch to a better paying career. 

 

I don't assume passion = recreational hobby. 

Maybe the person wants to be a nun. Or work in an animal rescue. Or be a social worker.   All jobs that'll earn you under $50,000 a year most of your life.  All passion projects.
 

 

Like I said above, under $50,000 is a far cry from under $10,000. And having a job in your passion is very different from constantly seeking a job in your passion. 

 

One of my children starts college in the fall to become an elementary school teacher...a job that is notoriously underpaid.  However, it is what she really wants to do, we need good teachers, and if she's frugal, she can eke by.  What I've done is show her the salary ranges and taught her how to live with a budget.  We've also turned down acceptance and scholarships at a more expensive school because what she'd still have to pay is more than she'd have to pay at a state school.  On a teacher's salary she cannot swing large student loan debt.  She's aware that it isn't a lucrative career, and it is ultimately her choice to make.

 

See my thoughts above, lol. Teaching is usually a stable job once you get started, it tends to have good benefits, and it pays well above starving artist wages. 

 

 

I have two children both interested in artistic paths.  I support both of them completely in whatever they want to do.  I have a degree in theatre and no one could have persuaded me to do anything different either.  The world needs artists and entertainers just as much as they need lawyers.  It would be a pretty boring place without them.  I have given them very realistic expectations.  It is still theirs to pursue.  Their life.  Not mine.

 

My husband has a degree in computer engineering.  He has a well paying job in that field.  He is miserable every day when he goes to work.  He hates it so much but feels he has no options.  Money doesn't guarantee happiness.

 

Still to this day, theatre is what feeds my soul.  It has been that way since I was 9 years old.  I still define myself as an actor/director with a day job.  That is who I am at heart.  My children feel this drive and passion as well.

 

Still, though - isn't it your dh's well-paying job that allows the other three in the family to hold that perspective? Your children might feel differently if they can't pay their bills, and you might have felt differently if you had gone on for years and years without your dh's income. The world does need artists and entertainers, but it needs people who can pay those artist and entertainers as well! 

 

This is why our high school requires shadowing someone in a potentially desired profession junior year.  <snip>

 

I've heard a lot of positive feedback from that usually starting with "You were right!  I didn't know about ___ and now I love it.  This is what I plan to do."

 

One of the schools we looked at, I think it was U of Georgia, has a bunch of one credit exploratory classes. I thought that was a brilliant idea.

 

Dang, I lost a quote. I wanted to quote the person who said that people can sometimes make a living doing what they love, but they can't make a living doing only what they love. That is so true. Successful artists, photographers, writers, and so on have to deal with clients, contracts, and all the minutia of making a living. Independent wealth is the only escape from paperwork  :laugh:

[Bluegoat]

A BS in Philosophy w/ MBA sounds like a smart combo. BS, MS, or PhD in Philosophy, no business or similar degree, and a thriving small business sounds like an outlier. 

 

Well, I guess.

 

On further looking, although she studied some philosophy her major was social anthropology, and sh has a second degree in journalism.

 

No business degree it seems.

 

I think though the outlier idea kind of misses the point in a way - very often, maybe even most of the time, people don't end up where they started.  I know lots of people with humanities backgrounds that end up doing a great diversity of things. 

 

I'm somewhat skeptical of MBAs in general, though.

[Bluegoat]

I have a couple of fine arts kids.  DD12 is at a beginning college level in a fine arts field.  She's obviously very gifted at something which will be almost impossible to make a living off of.  Bummer.  It's like finding out your kid is a highly gifted circus juggler or something.

 

We've talked about back-up plans.  She's talked about becoming a doctor and doing her art on the side as a hobby.  That sounds great, but it also sounds sad, because art is where her heart is.  It would be a compromise for her.    

 

If she decides to stick with art, there's always teaching, opening your own art school...at some point, people need high school art teachers, etc.  My parents have an older friend who actually was able to make a career with art.  He worked with a marketing team for a car company.

 

The thing about fine arts is they probably do need to make plans when they're younger - much younger than in other fields.  It takes a really long time to develop those fine arts skills.  

 

It could happen - my dd9 is very enthusiastic about circus at the moment - she keeps eyeing the pre-professional program posters.

[Tangerine]

My DH's tattoo artist has a space in a studio where he only takes the work he wants, he does oil paintings, charity mastectomy tattoos, makes income from several art related apps he designed, and just did 2 runs of a sold out collaboration with Manduka yoga mats for the Susan G. Komen Foundation. I don't even think he actually has to tattoo any more. He also just published in JAMA. Yes, The Journal of the American Medical Association. I think people can craft amazing, unconventional careers for themselves. I doubt people would council their kids to become tattoo artists all that frequently. Thankfully for him, he did his own thing, and has turned out to be an amazing place for women with reconstructive scars to turn to help themselves feel in control of their own beauty. What a world we have for all kinds of people.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Tangerine

[LMD]

Dd has dreams of getting a job and moving to the city. She's 11 and I suspect that the shine will fade but we discuss options often. She wasn't happy when I gave her a run down of cost of living vs a straight out of high school job (like waitress). Average wage for 18 year old - tax/rent/bills/groceries = not much left!

She has always been a 'dabble in everything' child, I wouldn't be surprised to see her piece together income for a while. She likes the idea of teaching her instrument and it pays quite well - she has already had people asking. I am subtly pushing the idea that teaching the instrument is a much better paying teenage part time job than fast-food etc, and she can study at the same time. Her teacher is on board and actually did exactly that, she's a high school math teacher and still tutors in both math/violin. And has 5 kids!

[Guest]

 I would very strongly encourage a no-debt education, in any case.

 

 

 

I think this can be an enormous mistake.  Educational debt can be an incredibly valuable investment...or it can be a complete waste and hamper a young adult's future.  ...but I am also seeing parents hamper their children's future by harping on 'no debt ever' and limiting the child to low paying/less satisfying career options.

 

 

(and I remain baffled at parents who prepare their sons to earn a living but not their daughters - we cannot predict when our children will find their life partner, or what life will throw at them, why not fully equip all our children to support themselves as needed or desired? )

[nixpix5]

I would support it as long as they weren't taking out loans and going into debt. I think loving what you do is important. Besides, mid-life career changes are not that difficult (I have done it!) So someone csn technically do a few different things during their life time.

[Guest]

... a career that you know does not pay well statistically, how do you feel about that? It's their dream, but most of the rewards will be praise from others and self satisfaction, not monetary compensation. Money is not everything in life, but it can be helpful. [emoji6] I would never discourage this career, but it also seems like setting this child up for struggles.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

It would depend. 

 

A teaching career, for example, doesn't pay well statistically, but can provide a steady income stream and benefits, and I would never encourage someone to give up a passion that could earn a basic living for a career which would be better paying.  ...and I would feel very positively about my child pursuing their dream.

 

An acting career requires a plan for how to earn money while not employed as an actor - that could be teaching theater, being an accountant, or some other regular day job... but a second career plan is, imho, essential.  ...and I would feel very worried about a child pursuing this path without that second plan.

 

But I would feel even sadder and more worried, honestly, about a child not trying for their dream, with or without a backup plan, and settling for something "practical" that doesn't match their gifts and passions.  I would rather my child lived on the financial edge as an artist, or incurred major debt to become a social justice lawyer if that were their calling.

 

I don't think we're given our lives to maximize our earning potential - we each have unique gifts and souls which have something amazing to offer the world... trying to match those gifts with practical considerations is important, but sacrificing them feels backwards to me.  (Sometimes we do face painfully hard choices and set aside our dreams to fulfill responsibilities... but that isn't a *starting* place, or an ideal to aim for, it is, often, a tragedy, and not what I would guide my children towards)

[fairfarmhand]

Having recently lost a loved one to a treatable disease partially due to medical costs and low income, I feel quite strongly that all factors should be taken into consideration when planning for the future.

 

And I expect my son and my daughters to weigh practicality when planning for the future. I don't want my girls to assume they will not be a primary breadwinner.

[HTRMom]

I think this can be an enormous mistake. Educational debt can be an incredibly valuable investment...or it can be a complete waste and hamper a young adult's future. ...but I am also seeing parents hamper their children's future by harping on 'no debt ever' and limiting the child to low paying/less satisfying career options.

 

 

(and I remain baffled at parents who prepare their sons to earn a living but not their daughters - we cannot predict when our children will find their life partner, or what life will throw at them, why not fully equip all our children to support themselves as needed or desired? )

I mean, if the child intends to embark on an unprofitable career, they'd better not do it already saddled with debt. I took out loans for my engineering degree and that was a good investment. I think all women should be able to support themselves. If they can do more than that, bonus! But all men should be capable of supporting a whole family.

[creekland]

I think this can be an enormous mistake.  Educational debt can be an incredibly valuable investment...or it can be a complete waste and hamper a young adult's future.  ...but I am also seeing parents hamper their children's future by harping on 'no debt ever' and limiting the child to low paying/less satisfying career options.

 

 

(and I remain baffled at parents who prepare their sons to earn a living but not their daughters - we cannot predict when our children will find their life partner, or what life will throw at them, why not fully equip all our children to support themselves as needed or desired? )

 

:iagree:  I shudder to think about where we would be if hubby hadn't taken on his loans.  We paid them off in 5 years and have been reaping the benefits ever since.  At the moment, that's 25 years of "very worth it" compared to 5 years of "paying it off."  

 

I think one has to really watch out for high loan totals, but average loans akin to buying a car?  That can be a superb investment.

 

I also agree that ALL kids (neurotypical  and physically able kids) should be prepared educationally (academic, trade, or ???) to earn a living.  Then they can make their choices if finances allow.

[fairfarmhand]

There's a difference between taking on debt for a dependable, decently paying career and taking it on for a more uncertain field.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pawz4me]

I think too many people are unreasonably fearful of "good" debt. Ironically, it's an attitude that in my own life I've seen almost solely among lower income people, or those who were raised lower income, while the upper middle to wealthy people I know all seem to have a very good understanding of how to make "good" debt work for them.

[catz]

There's a difference between taking on debt for a dependable, decently paying career and taking it on for a more uncertain field.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with this.  There is a difference between going 100K in debt for an undergrad degree in dance or theater and having some debt incurred while in medical school.   In most cases, a fancy high end degree as an undergrad as a BA or BFA is not going to pay significantly more financially than a similar degree at a more reasonably priced option. I really wish there were more resources available to help young people and their families navigate these waters.  I think graduating with the ability to pay off your debt within a reasonable number of years should be a goal. 

 

I have a friend who is 50 with 2 young kids (8 and 11).  She has deferred her college loans year after year and just now is going to need to return to work full time to start making payments.  I'm sure they have nothing in retirement and they seem to have no financial planning skills.  Awful! 

 

I think it is short sighted to assume women won't need to be wage earners or guys absolutely need to be primary wage earners.   We have friends that has a mom working corporate finance and years of stay at home dad while he had a small pottery business.  It worked for them, their kids are both adults now..  He was previously a software engineer.  His early years as a software engineer gave them the backing to be able to do this while raising their kids in an upper middle class setting.  I would encourage my kids to just be realistic about what they want to study or pursue and consider and talk through their plan B's. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by WoolySocks

[creekland]

I think too many people are unreasonably fearful of "good" debt. Ironically, it's an attitude that in my own life I've seen almost solely among lower income people, or those who were raised lower income, while the upper middle to wealthy people I know all seem to have a very good understanding of how to make "good" debt work for them.

 

I agree.  Leveraged debt of other sorts have worked out well for us too.  There's a huge difference between leveraged debt and "bought that huge screen TV because I wanted it or deserved it (over and over again)" credit card debt.

 

It is worth it (for many) to think about.  How much is "ok" and "too much" can be a tricky line.  There is no simple answer.

[SparklyUnicorn]

ha ha...

 

topic change...

 

There is an (embarrassing) story behind this.  Yesterday I read the topic too fast and thought you had changed it to "If your child wanted a purse".  Then later I realized no wait, that's not what it said. 

 

I'm losing it...

[Murphy101]

I think too many people are unreasonably fearful of "good" debt. Ironically, it's an attitude that in my own life I've seen almost solely among lower income people, or those who were raised lower income, while the upper middle to wealthy people I know all seem to have a very good understanding of how to make "good" debt work for them.

No offense intended, but this does not acknowledge the simple fact that the lower the income the less likely any debt is going to be "good" debt.

 

Upper middle to wealthy people are unlikely to lose everything next month. Or even next year.

 

Given that the vast majority of the lower classes are literally one paycheck from such disaster, what debt is good for them knowing how precarious their financials and life in general tend to be?

 

As for the topic at hand...

 

I think learning is not about just getting a job and that a vocation can also be more than getting a job. Sometimes those are the same trajectory, but for most people those things are separate, though maybe overlapping.

 

I have a couple kids so far that are choosing what I suspect will not be highly profitable degrees/careers. But I could be wrong. And money isn't everything even if it does buy everything. We have sat them down and been honest with them that people saying money isn't everything are usually people with more money than us. Very few of the lower classes say such nonsense for a reason. Poor people know the value of love and passionate interests and the need for work that is a social benefit too, they just also know how much it really sucks and can scar a person to wonder if they can buy diapers or pay rent or get healthcare. That's what poor parents want to avoid when they talk about wanting "more" for their children. It's not about wanting more money or prestige for them, it's about wanting the things that money can buy, like being able to sleep at night without worrying about how to pay rent or buy medicine. Or at least, that's what I mean when I talk to my kids about it.

 

I worry about their student debt, which overall isn't that bad comparatively. I know how crippling debt can be. And at best, their student debt might not pay off for them for a decade or more. If ever. That's a serious gamble to start adult life with. And I'm jaded. The house always wins in gambling. That's how the house stays in business. So I do feel the systems is screwing them from the start gate. I mean what are their options? Not get the education necessary to get a decent job, much less a well profiting one? Yeah, I don't think that's really a genuine option these days.

[EmilyGF]

In our family, what happened when my sister and I wanted to be engineers and my brother wanted to be an art history major is:

 

1. my parents paid (the parental contribution) for my sister and me to go to a top-5 private college 

2. they told my brother they would pay the same amount for his education, but encouraged him to consider whether he wanted it in four years or spread over many

3. he didn't get into any top private colleges but got into a great UC, which he transferred into

4. he got paid for his masters (lived super frugally with roommates etc)

5. he TAs his way through his PhD, once again super frugally

 

He's a pretty sharp guy and I think he'll find a way to make it work. He is much better in person than on paper, so once he gets the interview, he likely will get the job.

 

Sometimes I think I should have been less pragmatic with my major. Many of my friends with lousy majors (art, music, English) are able to work part time in their fields but I know very few engineers who work part time. OTOH, we don't need income from me and maybe I would find a good way to work part time if it was necessary.

 

Emily

 

[gardenmom5]

We will encourage our sons, especially, to go down career paths that will allow them to support a family so that if his wife doesn't want to work and stay home with the kids, it won't be such a burden.

 

 

gee that's nice.  I'm a sahm.   but . . . . what happens if he dies young and they still have children at home? or become unemployed? or is disabled and can no longer work?  what about if your daughter's don't' meet a guy that's a good match?  are they going to live at home?  get some penny-ante cheap job to "bide their time"?  how will they support themselves?

 

We gave the opposite advice. Two of my three sons are interested in careers in the arts. (It wouldn't surprise me if the other one ended up there too.) We have suggested that they marry later and marry doctors. 😂😂😂😂😂 They just laugh at us!

 

dh's nephew is a classical musician - with multiple degrees, no steady income stream.  does a lot of "odd type" jobs.  (teach a uni class, performances, private lessons)  his lawyer wife divorced him after less than 10 years of marriage.

 

While we certainly have tried to show and model the importance of supporting your children financially and emotionally we do not agree that sole earner scenarios are always the responsibility of the male half of the couple.

 

this.  I wanted my girls to get an education that was marketable.  2dd makes more than her dh (though he does have a lot of potential.)   for starters - is a girl just "bidding her time" waiting for some guy who makes a good income to "provide" for her?  what if said guy takes 10 years (or more) to show up?  is she supposed to work some carp job and just eke out a living??   I know a lot of women who never married - not because they didn't want to - but they never met a guy that was appropriate for them.

 

I think it is more important for women, especially those who wish to have kids and take time to be with them, to have a marketable degree. Women are more vulnerable. If they take time off to stay home with kids and the marriage doesn't work out, or for some other reason they need to go back to work, that gap in employment will make things much more difficult for them. Having a technical, specific, high demand degree or skill serves as a form of protection for them. Men don't have the same vulnerabilities on average.

 

I would highly discourage my DDs from having "stay at home mom" as their career goal. It's great if that's what they end up doing and want to do but they need a backup plan just as much as any aspiring actress. 

 

this.  my mother, and mil were both widows with minor children at home.  neither knew how to handle money.   - which made things worse. :svengo:

 

but women have to have something relevant- being out of the workforce for 20 years - or even 10 years - can make that degree not marketable in their field. (a friend had a marketing degree - it was worthless when she got divorced and needed to go back to work.)

2dd is a pharmd - she can work a weekend a month - and her hand's in it, but still spending most of her time with her children.   (when she has them . . .)

 

 

I think this can be an enormous mistake.  Educational debt can be an incredibly valuable investment...or it can be a complete waste and hamper a young adult's future.  ...but I am also seeing parents hamper their children's future by harping on 'no debt ever' and limiting the child to low paying/less satisfying career options.

 

 

(and I remain baffled at parents who prepare their sons to earn a living but not their daughters - we cannot predict when our children will find their life partner, or what life will throw at them, why not fully equip all our children to support themselves as needed or desired? )

 

yeah - college is expensive - even state college's  are expensive.   education is an investment and should be seen as such.

I also dont' understand not educating daughters (or educating them in "home ec" classes) - and I'm from  a religious tradition that encourages mom's  caring for their children.  I'm a snob - I want my grandchildren to have an educated mother.  :001_tt2:

 

I agree with this.  There is a difference between going 100K in debt for an undergrad degree in dance or theater and having some debt incurred while in medical school.   In most cases, a fancy high end degree as an undergrad as a BA or BFA is not going to pay significantly more financially than a similar degree at a more reasonably priced option. I really wish there were more resources available to help young people and their families navigate these waters.  I think graduating with the ability to pay off your debt within a reasonable number of years should be a goal. 

 

I

I think it is short sighted to assume women won't need to be wage earners or guys absolutely need to be primary wage earners.     I would encourage my kids to just be realistic about what they want to study or pursue and consider and talk through their plan B's. 

this. 

 

what's the predicted return on the educational investment?

but that includes stem too.  we have 1ds bouncing between a pricey college (with some very shiny opportunities for his field) or our one-and-only in-state uni that offers the degree (cheaper, but not as many opportunities. and so darn sllloooowwww to let you know if  you're in or not.  like - july.).  so - we'll know if july where he ends up.

 

I agree.  Leveraged debt of other sorts have worked out well for us too.  There's a huge difference between leveraged debt and "bought that huge screen TV because I wanted it or deserved it (over and over again)" credit card debt.

 

It is worth it (for many) to think about.  How much is "ok" and "too much" can be a tricky line.  There is no simple answer.

 

that's what craigslist is for.  go buy the 6 months old big screen from someone who cares enough to pay retail.

Edited June 3, 2017 by gardenmom5

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I know this is totally sexist, but I would probably be ok with it for a girl and would discourage it for a boy, since I think my sons will probably want to be capable of being breadwinners for a family and daughters hopefully won't need to. I would very strongly encourage a no-debt education, in any case.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, because women never have to support a family on their income alone.

[Lady Florida.]

I don't understand encouraging sons to enter a career that allows them to support a family but not encouraging daughters to do the same. What year is it? What century? 

 

Some women choose to stay at home with children if their husband is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

Some men choose to stay home with children if their wife is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

Some same sex couples choose to have one person stay home with children if their partner is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

 

I don't think we should encourage our children to pursue certain careers based on their gender. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Lady Florida.

[Frances]

My husband double majored in chemistry and art as an undergrad, but except for a brief period of time after he was accepted to an excellent MFA program, he's always felt that art was his avocation and his career would be science related. I don't think he's ever regretted the decision, as his current career gives him both the time and the money to very freely pursue his art. And although he does make some money from the art through commissions, selling, and bartering, he highly prefers when he can just go into his studio and create whatever he wants without the pressure to produce a certain product.

 

There are two other men in our small neighborhood who do art at a very high level, but have unrelated well-compensated day jobs.

[Bluegoat]

I don't understand encouraging sons to enter a career that allows them to support a family but not encouraging women to do the same. What year is it? What century? 

 

Some women choose to stay at home with children if their husband is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

Some men choose to stay home with children if their wife is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

Some same sex couples choose to have one person stay home with children if their partner is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

 

I don't think we should encourage our children to pursue certain careers based on their gender. 

 

I don't know that it really is just the same for men and women, as a group.  Yes, it is good for women to have some kind of job skills that could be used to earn a living for her family if required.

 

On the other hand, a woman is more likely than a man, IMO, to have a career break for kids - even in places like Canada where men can take a parental leave (my dh took 8 months with our dd9.)  In the end, the women are the ones being pregnant and birthing kids, and they are the ones who can breastfeed. 

 

So while all kinds of childcare arrangements can be made to work, I'd be more likely to advise a boy to think about a career that could work in a ine income family, at keast for a while, and a girl to think about careers with flexibility to take time off and come back to work later, or part-time. And be realistic about what other choices would mean.

[HTRMom]

I see it as probabilities. There's about a 90% chance that my boys will marry and will work outside the home and will prefer not to depend on their wives to support them. Most full-time dads are disabled or unable to find work. There's a 90% chance that girls will marry, a 60% chance that they will work outside the home, and about a 15-20% chance that they will be the sole earners. So, 90% versus 15% chance of needing to earn substantial money. (I've accounted for our economic status in my statistics; if we were in poverty, girls would be much more likely to be single mothers someday.)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paige]

I see it as probabilities. There's about a 90% chance that my boys will marry and will work outside the home and will prefer not to depend on their wives to support them. Most full-time dads are disabled or unable to find work. There's a 90% chance that girls will marry, a 60% chance that they will work outside the home, and about a 15-20% chance that they will be the sole earners. So, 90% versus 15% chance of needing to earn substantial money. (I've accounted for our economic status in my statistics; if we were in poverty, girls would be much more likely to be single mothers someday.)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Is that a lifetime risk or a risk at any point in time? Also, you can't forget the freedom and choice that comes with the ability to be the sole earner even if you aren't actually the sole earner.

[creekland]

No offense intended, but this does not acknowledge the simple fact that the lower the income the less likely any debt is going to be "good" debt.

 

Upper middle to wealthy people are unlikely to lose everything next month. Or even next year.

 

Given that the vast majority of the lower classes are literally one paycheck from such disaster, what debt is good for them knowing how precarious their financials and life in general tend to be?

 

As for the topic at hand...

 

I think learning is not about just getting a job and that a vocation can also be more than getting a job. Sometimes those are the same trajectory, but for most people those things are separate, though maybe overlapping.

 

I have a couple kids so far that are choosing what I suspect will not be highly profitable degrees/careers. But I could be wrong. And money isn't everything even if it does buy everything. We have sat them down and been honest with them that people saying money isn't everything are usually people with more money than us. Very few of the lower classes say such nonsense for a reason. Poor people know the value of love and passionate interests and the need for work that is a social benefit too, they just also know how much it really sucks and can scar a person to wonder if they can buy diapers or pay rent or get healthcare. That's what poor parents want to avoid when they talk about wanting "more" for their children. It's not about wanting more money or prestige for them, it's about wanting the things that money can buy, like being able to sleep at night without worrying about how to pay rent or buy medicine. Or at least, that's what I mean when I talk to my kids about it.

 

I worry about their student debt, which overall isn't that bad comparatively. I know how crippling debt can be. And at best, their student debt might not pay off for them for a decade or more. If ever. That's a serious gamble to start adult life with. And I'm jaded. The house always wins in gambling. That's how the house stays in business. So I do feel the systems is screwing them from the start gate. I mean what are their options? Not get the education necessary to get a decent job, much less a well profiting one? Yeah, I don't think that's really a genuine option these days.

 

Definitely no offense, but I know I'm not talking about those with limited income suddenly being able to put tons of money into real estate or the stock market.  That's leveraged debt at the end.  Leveraged debt at the beginning often starts with families scrimping and saving for college and debt being the finishing amount.  The same can happen with real estate, stock market, or whatever.

 

One set of my grandparents were immigrant/factory workers who made it a priority that their kids go to college.  The others were farmers and did the same (for the kids who wanted to go.)  Neither were wealthy or had much to contribute, so debt was part of it - and paid off for all.  My generation did the same with the same results.  Once some higher income comes in then one can invest more if they are wise.

 

"The house always wins" in gambling is when there is a fixed about of money being bet.  You go to a casino or buy lottery tickets and bet $100.  Only $80 - $90 gets returned to the winners.  Individually some win and some lose - the house doesn't care who is who because they get theirs regardless.  With the "Game of Life" when assets can increase all around, that doesn't apply quite as easily.  Yes, we win (with equity) and our tenants lose as far as our rental house is concerned, but they could also be taking extra money they have and investing it elsewhere if they want to - or they can use it all to buy that big screen TV (or whatever).

 

It does take a starting point though.  It takes someone being wise enough to use what is available for them and dedicated enough to do something with it.  Paycheck to paycheck is tough - no doubts at all there.  My grandparents lived it and talked about it often - glad to see their offspring doing well.  My mom still assists her siblings who didn't attend college.  I also see it often at school.  It's why I'm 100% in favor of programs to assist that start - including grants vs loans.

[Murphy101]

I agree it takes a starting point, someone has to take the major risk and just pray it pays off. And I'm okay with it being us/our kids.

 

But frankly, that is very much NOT the socially accepted advice. On these boards alone, I've been told I shouldn't. That if I make such a risk, it should be for my retirement and my kids should fend for themselves. (LOL like anyone in my income bracket is ever going to have a retirement.)

 

Separately and unrelated to your post...

 

I think girls should pursue degrees same as boys. I think it's silly not to. We have no idea when they will marry, if ever, or have children, if ever, and in the mean time, they need to sustain themselves. We have no idea if they will want to stay home or have to work for all kinds of reasons that happen commonly in life, and they will need to have an education that allows them choices. And if nothing else, I want them to have the chance to meet and marry someone they have things in common with - of which college is a common place to do so. I don't send any of them to college to find a spouse, but it is often the natural progression of things. Just like I don't send them to a Catholic Church to find a date, but if you want to meet someone of similiar beliefs, going to where those people regularly gather ups the chances.

[FairProspects]

Life can change so much. In some ways you get a degree in your area of interest, have as many backup plans as you can, get through as debt free as possible or pay off those loans as fast as possible, and figure out how to make the job situation work for your desired lifestyle.

 

Dh and I both are in fields that are traditionally low paying - teaching & counseling. Dh worked two jobs for several years and busted his butt to get multiple licenses, insurance credentialed, pay off student loans, save up cash, and start our own business. He now makes amazing money owning and operating our counseling/mental health group practice. He discovered that he is a very good business man in addition to being an incredible counselor and he loves every aspect of what he does.

 

I got my undergrad degrees in drama & history, MA in teaching & 6-12 certification, took 12 years off as a stay at home mom, and then had zero problems finding a teaching job in two weeks when I decided I wanted to go back to work. This year was tough and my job was not in my first choice area, but next year I'm moving into a job teaching drama 50% of the day. My building created this job just for me because literally NO one else in my building has the arts specialist/theatre certification and they wanted it so badly that they found the money to offer it. So from my perspective, the arts degree can really pay off too if you want to teach. The cost/benefit analysis means there is a shortage of many arts teachers now too.

 

I still perform in choirs directed by our music teachers and I love it. I also love teaching arts, as well as English and history, and I get to do all of that in pieces throughout the day. I definitely could not support our whole family on my income, but I make plenty as the second income earner with my MAT, and I love what I do. Dh and I have worked our financial plan together, have massive amounts of life insurance on both of us, and we are in the process of adding disability insurance for dh. These choices are the financial literacy piece that is critical no matter your choice of careers.

 

Your degrees and jobs are what you make of them and you make adjustments based on goals and dreams as you go along. That changes in each life stage but from our experience, I would not tell my kids what to major in or choose as a career. I will do my best to give them financial literacy and let them work it out for themselves.

Edited June 3, 2017 by FairProspects

[73349]

I see it as probabilities. There's about a 90% chance that my boys will marry and will work outside the home and will prefer not to depend on their wives to support them. Most full-time dads are disabled or unable to find work. There's a 90% chance that girls will marry, a 60% chance that they will work outside the home, and about a 15-20% chance that they will be the sole earners. So, 90% versus 15% chance of needing to earn substantial money. (I've accounted for our economic status in my statistics; if we were in poverty, girls would be much more likely to be single mothers someday.)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

What about the 43% divorce rate?

 

 

The Two-Income Trap is a good book for parents to read before giving career and financial advice, or for young adults to read on their own. The costs of housing, student loan debt, and other locked-in expenses are a significant threat to financial security for a lot of households in this country. One's current income is only part of the equation.

 

For the OP... my (single, 30something) SIL is able to work outside of dance also and that's how she has health insurance, but she has limited free time (e.g., cannot come and visit family out of state, ever) because she is cobbling it all together. Make sure your DD understands that time and health are  issues for many dance professionals, not just money. That doesn't mean she shouldn't pursue it, but she should know.

[2squared]

Still, though - isn't it your dh's well-paying job that allows the other three in the family to hold that perspective? Your children might feel differently if they can't pay their bills, and you might have felt differently if you had gone on for years and years without your dh's income. The world does need artists and entertainers, but it needs people who can pay those artist and entertainers as well!

 

This exactly. The half of a couple who is pursuing their passion at low income often does it while the other person isn't pursuing their dreams. This is our situation. I am our breadwinner because our family needs to earn a certain amount to sustain our lifestyle and eat. I can support our family of seven. My dh has made choices which limit his earning ability, and he cannot support our family. His choices limit my choices, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't get it. He doesn't see my continuing sacrifice.

 

I feel very, very blessed that I have options. I can support my family, without dh. This gives all the choice in the world.

[Guest]

I don't understand encouraging sons to enter a career that allows them to support a family but not encouraging daughters to do the same. What year is it? What century? 

 

Some women choose to stay at home with children if their husband is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

Some men choose to stay home with children if their wife is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

Some same sex couples choose to have one person stay home with children if their partner is able to make enough money for them to stay home. That's a valid choice.

 

I don't think we should encourage our children to pursue certain careers based on their gender. 

 

I will say that to a the main point you are making, I agree.  I would like to add that there is still a difference in that women are the ones who are going to have the baby, and that does require time away.  Maybe not a lot, and I know that there is paternity leave, but ... there is still that difference.  

 

Additionally, theories and practice don't always match up.  It's not a law and it's not a rule, but I have noticed that the ratio of women to men who "stay with the kids" is still pretty high.  THEREFORE, when I have been speaking with young women who are embarking on careers, choosing jobs and so on, I have been advising them (in part based on my experience) to find a path where they can keep their hand in while they are raising kids--this is getting easier with technology changes--or where the information doesn't change so fast that they are out of date if they take 5 years off...and then get their hand back in.  

 

When I left my tech job, I was too whipped to work even part time while I had a kid.  But I had a lot of offers from other companies to come work for them when I was ready to go back to work.  Well, I wasn't ready to go back to work...but after 5 years, I was completely out of date with the technology.  I still had a good reputation and people interested in hiring me, and I still could have caught up at that point, but it would have been a chore.  But by the time my son left to go to school, I was so out of date I didn't even know what people were TALKING about, and it would have been like starting over to get caught up.  By that time, everyone had forgotten me, so I didn't even have the reputation chops.  Now, I'm pretty much qualified to drive the shuttle buses for that company.  :0)

 

SO when I talk to young women in particular, I point out that IF someone stays home, it is likely to be HER, and so in her career choosing, that is worth considering in the interviews and company culture.  

 

(PS.  My advice is also somewhat informed by watching a few young women lose their husbands to divorce or death...when they HAD to go back to work--no choice about it...some have had an easier time recovering their financial footing than others, so I sort of noticed that.). 

[gardenmom5]

Definitely no offense, but I know I'm not talking about those with limited income suddenly being able to put tons of money into real estate or the stock market.  That's leveraged debt at the end.  Leveraged debt at the beginning often starts with families scrimping and saving for college and debt being the finishing amount.  The same can happen with real estate, stock market, or whatever.

 

 

 

It does take a starting point though.  It takes someone being wise enough to use what is available for them and dedicated enough to do something with it.  Paycheck to paycheck is tough - no doubts at all there.  My grandparents lived it and talked about it often - glad to see their offspring doing well.  My mom still assists her siblings who didn't attend college.  I also see it often at school.  It's why I'm 100% in favor of programs to assist that start - including grants vs loans.

 

this is one reason microbanks are more willing to loan to women.   early in the program they loaned to several women who were hawking their wares in a stall.  years later - they went to see what they'd done.  they'd paid off their loans.   they were still hawking their wares in a stall - BUT .  they had refrigerators.  their children were getting nutritious food in sufficient quantities.  their older children had gone to college/received training to make a better living.  just that small lift - was enough to make things better for their children.

 

attitude towards education is a big part of it, because it doesn't start the day a student walks into their first class - either for college or tech school. family support is a big deal too.  I had higher ambitions than my mother- but she was always undermining us.  it made things very difficult.   then I married into a family where a bachelor degree is considered a basic education.  

 

(my grandmother was always "take typing classes so you can support your husband in college. - how about take typing classes so you can support yourself in college?)

[Guest]

snip...

(my grandmother was always "take typing classes so you can support your husband in college. - how about take typing classes so you can support yourself in college?)

 

I clipped it but I liked the info about microloans.  Very interesting.

 

The last sentence brought back a memory for me:  When I was in high school, the counselors adivsed me to go to VoTech "to learn keypunch--so you will always have something to fall back on."  

 

HA.  THAT was dead by the time I got out of college.  

[Paige]

I clipped it but I liked the info about microloans.  Very interesting.

 

The last sentence brought back a memory for me:  When I was in high school, the counselors adivsed me to go to VoTech "to learn keypunch--so you will always have something to fall back on."  

 

HA.  THAT was dead by the time I got out of college.  

 

I don't even know what keypunch would be.

 

O/T a little, but I just read an article about how vocational students earned more as young adults than the average bachelor's holder, but significantly less as older adults. I think where we fail as a country is in making it easy for teens and young adults to go to school and very difficult for older adults to go back and learn new skills. Everyone should be encouraged to be a lifelong learner.

[HTRMom]

What about the 43% divorce rate?

 

 

The Two-Income Trap is a good book for parents to read before giving career and financial advice, or for young adults to read on their own. The costs of housing, student loan debt, and other locked-in expenses are a significant threat to financial security for a lot of households in this country. One's current income is only part of the equation.

 

Assuming we don't get divorced (seems unlikely but you never know), my kids are all more intelligent than average as every relative is and they seem to be so far, they go to college and our economic status doesn't dramatically change over 15 years, their risk of divorce would be much lower than that, maybe 10%. But yes, it's always a possibility. I would never discourage a daughter from a practical degree!

[Lady Florida.]

I will say that to a the main point you are making, I agree.  I would like to add that there is still a difference in that women are the ones who are going to have the baby, and that does require time away.  Maybe not a lot, and I know that there is paternity leave, but ... there is still that difference.  

 

Additionally, theories and practice don't always match up.  It's not a law and it's not a rule, but I have noticed that the ratio of women to men who "stay with the kids" is still pretty high.  THEREFORE, when I have been speaking with young women who are embarking on careers, choosing jobs and so on, I have been advising them (in part based on my experience) to find a path where they can keep their hand in while they are raising kids--this is getting easier with technology changes--or where the information doesn't change so fast that they are out of date if they take 5 years off...and then get their hand back in.  

 

 

 

I agree with much of what you said even though I didn't quote your whole post. Certainly women need time off after the birth of a child that men don't, and if a parent does stay home it's more likely to be the mother. My concern is that if we steer young women towards flexible careers so they can take time off to be a sahm, by default we're steering them away from other careers. Then those careers remain male dominated. 

[2_girls_mommy]

Well, my dream was and is a SAHM. I have no pay, little retirement, no benefits, unless they come from my dh. So who am I to tell someone else not to follow their dream, lol? 

[Osprey]

I'm only about halfway through, but I'm finding so many of these responses interesting!!

DH and I both work in fields that have been described as "I'm glad someone wants to do that ultra-low-paying, yet incredibly necessary job" multiple times in this thread. Yet, we are quite comfortable- we own a home in a high COL area, we pay for private school, we go out to eat and go on vacations...

I would be unhappy if my child wanted to pursue stardom. Like, if they wanted to be an NFL quarterback, or a pop singer, or whatever. Other than that, I will encourage whatever they ultimately prove to be interested in. The only requirement I have for schooling is that they do not take out any student loans. They will have to go wherever is affordable by whatever combination of scholarships, family assistance, and personal contribution is available.

I personally cannot imagine spending most of my waking hours doing something with the only purpose of bringing in money, and I do not wish that for my child.

[Murphy101]

I'm only about halfway through, but I'm finding so many of these responses interesting!!

DH and I both work in fields that have been described as "I'm glad someone wants to do that ultra-low-paying, yet incredibly necessary job" multiple times in this thread. Yet, we are quite comfortable- we own a home in a high COL area, we pay for private school, we go out to eat and go on vacations...

I would be unhappy if my child wanted to pursue stardom. Like, if they wanted to be an NFL quarterback, or a pop singer, or whatever. Other than that, I will encourage whatever they ultimately prove to be interested in. The only requirement I have for schooling is that they do not take out any student loans. They will have to go wherever is affordable by whatever combination of scholarships, family assistance, and personal contribution is available.

I personally cannot imagine spending most of my waking hours doing something with the only purpose of bringing in money, and I do not wish that for my child.

I second that. Being famous in any spotlight type of capacity sounds like an inner circle of hell to me that I'd have great fear and worry about my child doing it.

[ktgrok]

Even a young age, I tell my kids that they don't have to make a million a year. However, they need to be able to support themselves and a possible family in this very uncertain world.

 

This. So fine, if you choose a career that for the moment doesn't pay well, as long as you have the skills/training/education to do something that does pay well, if you need to down the road. Now, pays well means able to afford modest house or apartment and food, health care, etc. Doesn't need to mean fancy vacations or new cars. 

 

But yeah, I'd very clearly discuss the real stress that comes from a low paying job once you have a family. 

 

I love animals. I got a vet tech degree. It is NOT enough to raise a family. I'd have been much better served to get a nursing degree and do rescue work with animals on the side. 

[ktgrok]

Sure sure...but there is nothing that says they can't learn a new skill and get a different job with more stability when they are tired of that. 

 

. 

 

Trying to learn a new skill or go to school for a new degree while raising kids and working full time is...difficult. If not impossible, depending on the various factors. 

[ktgrok]

One of my children starts college in the fall to become an elementary school teacher...a job that is notoriously underpaid.  However, it is what she really wants to do, we need good teachers, and if she's frugal, she can eke by.  What I've done is show her the salary ranges and taught her how to live with a budget.  We've also turned down acceptance and scholarships at a more expensive school because what she'd still have to pay is more than she'd have to pay at a state school.  On a teacher's salary she cannot swing large student loan debt.  She's aware that it isn't a lucrative career, and it is ultimately her choice to make.

 

The good thing about teaching is that they have fewer childcare costs which helps balance the lower pay.

[catz]

This is a really good story about setting up a student with a passion with an exorbitant amount of debt for a career that is not likely to pay off.  It sounds like she didn't have parental guidance either when signing on for this.  Why she needs to have this much debt when she has a husband employed as an engineer is beyond me.  I wouldn't discourage a kid from being a vet.  I'd be looking at the most economical ways to follow your dreams.   300K+ in loans while you have a young child is just horrible on so many levels. 

 

http://www.startribune.com/debt-swallows-up-students-at-vet-grad-professional-schools/275017651/

 

I am 100% on board with making education WAY more affordable for students who are serious about their studies.  But since things aren't swinging that way right now, I will definitely be guiding my kids to get higher education while keeping our heads in reality about the book work.  We very intentionally kept our family smaller to help as much as possible.  DH and I had no student debt.  I know that is much harder to do now, but we're definitely looking to keep it at a minimum.   That has allowed us much more flexibility raising our own kids.

Edited June 3, 2017 by WoolySocks

[creekland]

then I married into a family where a bachelor degree is considered a basic education.  

 

This is our family too, but starting with our generation with hubby's side and my parent's on my side.  Neither his parents nor my grandparents went to college.  They just wanted to see things be different with their kids and grandkids.  I don't actually care if my kids use their degree or not TBH.  I want them to have one (since they are all quite capable academically).  Youngest wasn't sure he wanted to do college... he's quite thankful now (ready to start his senior year).  I'm pretty sure my kids will carry on our tradition with their own.  Time will tell.

[MommyLiberty5013]

This. So fine, if you choose a career that for the moment doesn't pay well, as long as you have the skills/training/education to do something that does pay well, if you need to down the road. Now, pays well means able to afford modest house or apartment and food, health care, etc. Doesn't need to mean fancy vacations or new cars. 

 

But yeah, I'd very clearly discuss the real stress that comes from a low paying job once you have a family. 

 

I love animals. I got a vet tech degree. It is NOT enough to raise a family. I'd have been much better served to get a nursing degree and do rescue work with animals on the side. 

 

I agree with you. My sister was a great dancer, and she has a BA in fine arts from a prestigious university. But, when graduation time came, she had no job and was always the 2nd best at auditions for professional dance companies. She never got hired. So she waited tables for 7 years. I watched her struggle. Waiting tables is a good job and she made okay money, but she never had nice things and she had to work all the time to make ends meet and never even had time to dance, even for fun!

 

Then, she went back and had to do school all over again and now has a masters in OT and a great, a family-sustaining job.

 

I think your sentiments about nursing and being with animals as a passion/volunteerism make total sense.

 

Doing what you love is SO important, but it can be done as a hobby or pastime and still give that paycheck of the heart, leaving the monetary paycheck for a career that has some sustainability.