If your child wanted to pursue...

[ktgrok]

To be clear, I would never advise a job they have no interest in, or would hate. Just to be clear about finances, and how living on love sounds great, but in actuality it can mean sleepless nights worrying how to feed your children, or working multiple jobs and never actually SEEING your children. 

 

And we'd discuss hard practicalities. Everyone hopes for the best, but things happen sometimes. I was fine with my job working in a vet hospital when I was in a two income family. But when my ex became disabled due to an infection that caused cardiomyopathy that meant we nearly were foreclosed on, and that was WITH borrowing money from family and generous gifts from a family friend. It wasn't sustainable. And then we got divorced. And I had to move in with my parents. I don't regret that, it was good for my son to have the extra support, and it let me work just part time for a little while while my son dealt with the divorce. But eventually I was working full time, going to school close to full time, and trying to be a good parent. Had I gotten my BA before getting married/pregnant I could have been teaching, which would have brought in a bit more money and also meant I could have been home in the afternoons, summers, school breaks, etc. Instead, I was paying for after school care that my son HATED (we did find one he liked, thank God for them) and miserable in many ways. Despite working my dream job in animal medicine. 

 

Yes, the job was great. But it wasn't worth that much stress. Not without some way to transition to more money when life threw me a curve ball or three. 

So sure, do the dream job, but have plan B and plan C. People get sick, or injured, or divorced, or heaven forbid, they die. Jobs become obsolete. Workers lose the ability to do what they used to (thinking of those that work with their hands and become disabled). Have alternates. And have a way to support yourself and your kids. 

[gardenmom5]

This is our family too, but starting with our generation with hubby's side and my parent's on my side.  Neither his parents nor my grandparents went to college.  They just wanted to see things be different with their kids and grandkids.  I don't actually care if my kids use their degree or not TBH.  I want them to have one (since they are all quite capable academically).  Youngest wasn't sure he wanted to do college... he's quite thankful now (ready to start his senior year).  I'm pretty sure my kids will carry on our tradition with their own.  Time will tell.

 

my father's family were educated - my dad even put himself through college. my grandmother went to nurses training in the 20s- one of the few 'acceptable' jobs for young ladies of means.  her father went to college in th.e 1800's - back when an 8th grade education was considered doing well.  but my father died when I was 12 - and there was almost no contact with my father's mother.  

my maternal grandmother pushed my mother to go to college -not for the education - but for a MRS degree.  It's disturbing to me how many mothers do that still today.

 

To be clear, I would never advise a job they have no interest in, or would hate. Just to be clear about finances, and how living on love sounds great, but in actuality it can mean sleepless nights worrying how to feed your children, or working multiple jobs and never actually SEEING your children. 

 

And we'd discuss hard practicalities. Everyone hopes for the best, but things happen sometimes.   life threw me a curve ball or three. 

So sure, do the dream job, but have plan B and plan C. People get sick, or injured, or divorced, or heaven forbid, they die. Jobs become obsolete. Workers lose the ability to do what they used to (thinking of those that work with their hands and become disabled). Have alternates. And have a way to support yourself and your kids. 

 

 

this.  life happens, things happen, disability happens, unemployment happens, illness happens, death happens, even divorce happens . . . things happen.  life happens while we're making other plans.

 

my girls have great educations and marketable skills.  both want kids (one is married, one is not) - both have the skills to be the bread winner with a comfortable income if that reality of life becomes their reality.

2dd can definitely work a shift or two a month to keep her hand in and still go back fully qualified. (they made the choice to only live on her dh's income and bank hers.  she makes more than him.)  1dd - might be able to do something part time to keep skills up - but it would be a big step down from where she is now.

[frogger]

 

 

But yeah, I'd very clearly discuss the real stress that comes from a low paying job once you have a family. 

 

 

 

 

This is something to stress. I think it is really hard to comprehend until you are there. I could easily live in poverty as healthy 17-19 year old. We moved up fairly fast. But if you asked me how I'd feel about that now with 4 kids it would be a whole different ball game. 

[Audrey]

Actually, if this field is in the arts, feel free to get them to PM me for a real look at what happens to the majority of those following a pure arts path. It ain't pretty. I am happy to scare anyone's children off following a career as a poet, novelist, playwright or journalist.. It doesn't even matter if you have talent - talent is the least of it. 

 

Same goes for acting/theatre and music.  Talent is the last thing you need to survive. And, I mean survive in all the ways.  It's all cutes and roses and 'aren't you so talented' when they're kids, but as adults, life as an actor is brutal.

[Audrey]

My take is that he should be well informed of realities, and if he still wants to give it a go, then do it.  While my time spent having a professional stage career had me in the poorhouse and working like a dog's dog, I don't regret it.  I learned a lot about life, the real world, and how to survive with my self-esteem intact.  Strong stuff, that.

 

That said, while I would not dissuade him, there are some pursuits that would truly disappoint me.  I'd still love him, but there are some things that would make me wonder wtf.

 

 

[Rosie_0801]

I clipped it but I liked the info about microloans.  Very interesting.

 

Over here there's a business school that runs free courses for disadvantaged women, and provides follow up support. They work with women for the same reason, that "butterfly effect."

[Guest]

I know a wealthy woman who has changed many people's lives by making micro loans and giving business and legal assistance. She has done this all over the world--not a hand out but a hand up. It was interesting to read the data on what I have seen anecdotally.

 

Ironically, the only times she has been ... disappointed have been with major loans and married joint borrowers.

 

(Some of the microloan women were married but they had their own businesses.)

[Jan in SC]

gee that's nice.  I'm a sahm.   but . . . . what happens if he dies young and they still have children at home? or become unemployed? or is disabled and can no longer work?  what about if your daughter's don't' meet a guy that's a good match?  are they going to live at home?  get some penny-ante cheap job to "bide their time"?  how will they support themselves?

 

 

dh's nephew is a classical musician - with multiple degrees, no steady income stream.  does a lot of "odd type" jobs.  (teach a uni class, performances, private lessons)  his lawyer wife divorced him after less than 10 years of marriage.

 

 

this.  I wanted my girls to get an education that was marketable.  2dd makes more than her dh (though he does have a lot of potential.)   for starters - is a girl just "bidding her time" waiting for some guy who makes a good income to "provide" for her?  what if said guy takes 10 years (or more) to show up?  is she supposed to work some carp job and just eke out a living??   I know a lot of women who never married - not because they didn't want to - but they never met a guy that was appropriate for them.

 

 

this.  my mother, and mil were both widows with minor children at home.  neither knew how to handle money.   - which made things worse. :svengo:

 

but women have to have something relevant- being out of the workforce for 20 years - or even 10 years - can make that degree not marketable in their field. (a friend had a marketing degree - it was worthless when she got divorced and needed to go back to work.)

2dd is a pharmd - she can work a weekend a month - and her hand's in it, but still spending most of her time with her children.   (when she has them . . .)

 

 

 

yeah - college is expensive - even state college's  are expensive.   education is an investment and should be seen as such.

I also dont' understand not educating daughters (or educating them in "home ec" classes) - and I'm from  a religious tradition that encourages mom's  caring for their children.  I'm a snob - I want my grandchildren to have an educated mother.  :001_tt2:

 

this. 

 

what's the predicted return on the educational investment?

but that includes stem too.  we have 1ds bouncing between a pricey college (with some very shiny opportunities for his field) or our one-and-only in-state uni that offers the degree (cheaper, but not as many opportunities. and so darn sllloooowwww to let you know if  you're in or not.  like - july.).  so - we'll know if july where he ends up.

 

 

that's what craigslist is for.  go buy the 6 months old big screen from someone who cares enough to pay retail.

Well, I was kidding about the -marry doctors- part.  I absolutely will encourage my children to pursue their passions. I won't encourage them to marry early. I don't have any issues with them living with significant others before marriage. I have encouraged them to surround themselves with driven, intelligent, and kind people. I'm probably a hopeless romantic about this, but I also know that we have their backs. We will help as much as possible. 

[gardenmom5]

Well, I was kidding about the -marry doctors- part.  I absolutely will encourage my children to pursue their passions. I won't encourage them to marry early. I don't have any issues with them living with significant others before marriage. I have encouraged them to surround themselves with driven, intelligent, and kind people. I'm probably a hopeless romantic about this, but I also know that we have their backs. We will help as much as possible. 

 

I thought you were kidding about the marrying drs.   just like I tell my has-expensive-taste-son he better make enough to support himself.

I encourage marrying the right person at the right time- that might be early (was for me) or it might be a long time.   and to have a life.  

when they grow up around driven, intelligent people . . . anything less is boring. 1dd intimidated the guys in high school.  her motto was "if you can hold an intelligent conversation I'll talk to you."  she had profs she found boring.   now she's in a job she heads the IT dept, and reports to the ceo. and she's having a blast.

 

it's possible to have fun - and make a decent income that will comfortably support yourself and a family at the same time.

[The Governess]

My dd12 is also an aspiring ballerina. She is highly academic and practical, and I know that no matter what path she chooses, she will end up getting a degree in the end and finding a way to make things work.

 

FYI, there are colleges out there that offer programs specifically for dancers that have wrapped up their dancing careers, or want to pursue a degree while dancing. A couple that come to mind:

 

The LEAP program at St. Mary's - https://www.stmarys-ca.edu/liberal-education-for-arts-professionals-leap

 

The General Studies program at Columbia University is known for recruiting professional dancers (they have developed amazing work ethics, after all) - https://mobile.nytimes.com/2010/12/05/arts/dance/05columbia.html

Edited June 4, 2017 by lovelearnandlive

[fairfarmhand]

No offense intended, but this does not acknowledge the simple fact that the lower the income the less likely any debt is going to be "good" debt.

 

Upper middle to wealthy people are unlikely to lose everything next month. Or even next year.

 

Given that the vast majority of the lower classes are literally one paycheck from such disaster, what debt is good for them knowing how precarious their financials and life in general tend to be?

 

As for the topic at hand...

 

I think learning is not about just getting a job and that a vocation can also be more than getting a job. Sometimes those are the same trajectory, but for most people those things are separate, though maybe overlapping.

 

I have a couple kids so far that are choosing what I suspect will not be highly profitable degrees/careers. But I could be wrong. And money isn't everything even if it does buy everything. We have sat them down and been honest with them that people saying money isn't everything are usually people with more money than us. Very few of the lower classes say such nonsense for a reason. Poor people know the value of love and passionate interests and the need for work that is a social benefit too, they just also know how much it really sucks and can scar a person to wonder if they can buy diapers or pay rent or get healthcare. That's what poor parents want to avoid when they talk about wanting "more" for their children. It's not about wanting more money or prestige for them, it's about wanting the things that money can buy, like being able to sleep at night without worrying about how to pay rent or buy medicine. Or at least, that's what I mean when I talk to my kids about it.

 

.

Me too. And i get super annoyed at the advisers at my dds college who tell kid to do what they love and the money will come. Bah.

[gardenmom5]

Me too. And i get super annoyed at the advisers at my dds college who tell kid to do what they love and the money will come. Bah.

 

 

this is one of those times you say.....look who is doing the advising....

[creekland]

this is one of those times you say.....look who is doing the advising....

 

We all know what I think of my lad's pre-med advisers from his college...  :cursing:  :mad:  :cursing:

 

One should always do their own research.  Learn from other folk's mistakes.