School bus situation

[DawnM]

UPDATE! Post #51. Resolved.

 

 

UGH.   I am going to try to call the school and the bus services today, but I may not have time.  I have started work and may be busy all day.

 

We signed up both kids to ride the bus to school.  The busses have always come into the first area of our neighborhood and the kids meet the bus there.  

 

The bus info came yesterday.  They are no longer coming in to the neighborhood and want my boys to walk almost a 1/2 mile on a very busy 50mph road with no shoulder and no sidewalks.  The only way to stay off the road is to walk on people's lawns.   Grown bikers have been killed on that road because it is has turns you can't see around.

 

Does that seem reasonable to you?

Edited August 19, 2016 by DawnM

[Amira]

No, that is not reasonable. Mostly I deal with inconvenient schedules and pickup locations when there are lots of people to be picked up, but there is no way children should be required to walk on a road with that speed limit with no sidewalk to get to the bus.

 

Is the bus stop on that road too?

 

ETA that I'm thinking of elementary school kids. I'd be more okay with high school kids walking a bit on a road like that.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Amira

[Guest]

That is normal for here. Walkers walk a mile, mostly in the road as there are few sidewalks and most people wont shovel snow before the teens start walking.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Heigh Ho

[StephanieZ]

Nope, not OK at all. 

 

Our house is over half a mile from the bus stop, but it's a very quiet dead end road. 

 

I would NOT be OK with a kid walking on a road as you describe. Not at all. I'd make lots and lots of noise until it is resolved. 

[bettyandbob]

Unreasonable.

 

Contact the bus service. If you don't get an acceptable response contact your school board rep.

[Night Elf]

Definitely call and complain. That's ridiculous.

[Reefgazer]

Oh, hell no, not reasonable!  I can't believe the school district isn't concerned about liability in this situation.

UGH.   I am going to try to call the school and the bus services today, but I may not have time.  I have started work and may be busy all day.

 

We signed up both kids to ride the bus to school.  The busses have always come into the first area of our neighborhood and the kids meet the bus there.  

 

The bus info came yesterday.  They are no longer coming in to the neighborhood and want my boys to walk almost a 1/2 mile on a very busy 50mph road with no shoulder and no sidewalks.  The only way to stay off the road is to walk on people's lawns.   Grown bikers have been killed on that road because it is has turns you can't see around.

 

Does that seem reasonable to you?

 

[magnificent_baby]

No that's not reasonable at all. Look up your state laws to see if there's anything to back you up.

 

One year, our district paid a lot of money for a dumb software program that spit out the routes, not taking factors such as these into account. Parents were outraged and they ended up changing nearly every route. They were very willing to work with parents. 

[Cinder]

Agreeing it's unreasonable and I'm surprised there isn't a rule in place for situations like this. Definitely something to bring up with the school district.

[Spryte]

Not reasonable. If you needed another vote.

[bethben]

I had friends whose kids the bus would pick up only 3-4 blocks away only because they didn't want the kids (all ages) having to cross a busy road where the speed limit was 50 mph.  This road even had a 4 way stop they could cross at.  The school/ bus system deemed just having to cross the road dangerous much less walk on it.  Yes, the bus stop is totally unreasonable.

[Mimm]

That would absolutely not be ok with me.

[skimomma]

That is unreasonable and I would complain.  The distance is not an issue.  I think anything up to a mile is perfectly fine and I personally would have no issue with further distances.  I walked about a mile to my bus stop starting at age five.  But not on a busy street with fast traffic and no sidewalks.

 

I am also amazed at the differences.  Our local school district will not allow kids to walk ONE block in a sleepy residential city neighborhood because there are no sidewalks.  Not allowed.  Kids who can see the school from their bedroom windows have to either be driven/accompanied by parents or subject themselves to 15-60 minutes on a bus that meanders all over the city picking each kid up at their door.

[SKL]

It would be OK for high school, but not for elementary school kids.

 

If your kids are young, or have any special needs that would affect their safety in this situation, then I'd call and ask for a change.

[Heatherwith4]

I wouldn't put up with that for any age kid.

[Dmmetler]

I had friends whose kids the bus would pick up only 3-4 blocks away only because they didn't want the kids (all ages) having to cross a busy road where the speed limit was 50 mph.  This road even had a 4 way stop they could cross at.  The school/ bus system deemed just having to cross the road dangerous much less walk on it.  Yes, the bus stop is totally unreasonable.

 

This is the same thing in my district-kids regularly may need to walk a mile or so to get to school or to the bus, but if a road is too busy with a high speed limit, the routes will be altered. We had kids at my former school who were bused about 5 blocks, total-but they lived on the other side of a multi-lane road.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

The distance is fine.

 

The safety of the walk is not fine.

[TammyinTN]

I would definitely be calling Transporation about this situation.  They can change this as needed to accommodate the needs of their riders and do it all the time.

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by TammyinTN

[Janeway]

I think it is too far and under less than safe conditions. The reason i think it is too far is that walking to the school bus is not like walking to school. When you walk to school, you go inside once there. When you walk to a school bus stop, you get there and then stand outside to wait. A half hour is way too far to walk only to have to sit and wait once there.

[Tanaqui]

I am also amazed at the differences.  Our local school district will not allow kids to walk ONE block in a sleepy residential city neighborhood because there are no sidewalks.  Not allowed.  Kids who can see the school from their bedroom windows have to either be driven/accompanied by parents or subject themselves to 15-60 minutes on a bus that meanders all over the city picking each kid up at their door.

 

I'm sure that can't be enforceable OR legal.

 

[Bluegoat]

I don't care about the distance, but the road doesn't sound safe to me, I would call.  It might be one of those things where someone made a decision without all the information.

 

The school bus situation here is crazy in the other direction - kids aren't allowed to get off the bus without an adult to meet them - apparently walking home, even on quiet sidewalks for a block - is too much.  Technically they can get on without an adult, but the other parents tend to look askance.

[Tap]

It really depends on the school district.  It doesn't sound reasonable to me, but may be within their guidelines.  Our area takes it a bit too far the other way.  In our tiny neighborhood of 100 houses, there are 2 bus stops, visited by 3 buses (elmtry, midsch, hs)  for NT kids and 3 SN kids that are picked up at their door step by different buses.From the furthest points apart, the entire distance isn't even 1/8mile so there is no reason for 2 stops in here.  There is only one road in/out of our neighborhood so it is like one giant cul-de-sac. Every day there are 6 buses that go here.

 

There is a road here like you describe and the bus stops at everyone's homes and picks them up. Last year there  were at least 6 stops on a quarter mile road (for each bus).  It obviously varied due to ages/houses but if you got caught behind that bus, it would take 10 minutes to get from one end of the road to the other.

[bolt.]

It's not ideal and probably needs changing... But I wouldn't say it's 'unreasonable' -- just walk on the lawns. (I don't think your objection is unreasonable either.)

[MrsMommy]

The distance is fine.

 

The safety of the walk is not fine.

 

I agree. In our district, they only have to provide bus service for children that live something like more than one mile from the school. But, if there is not a safe way to walk, including sidewalks the whole way and lights for crossing busy streets, they have to provide bus service no matter how close the neighborhood is. We only live about a half mile from our elementary school (maybe even a little less), but there's a busy highway between here and there with no sidewalks, so they bring the buses through our subdivision.

[ErinE]

It would be OK for high school, but not for elementary school kids.

 

If your kids are young, or have any special needs that would affect their safety in this situation, then I'd call and ask for a change.

 

It's still not okay for high school. I lived in the Carolinas for several years. People are killed every year because the roads have no shoulders, the land is hilly, and the speed limit is too high for the visibility. There's definite liability here for the school.

[8circles]

No.  The unsafe road isn't acceptable to me.  Neither is the distance frankly.  Not because it's too far to walk, but because it's too far to walk to then wait for the bus which may or may not be on time and may even be early and there's no way of knowing.  Walking a mile to get to school is not equal to walking a mile to wait for a bus.

 

This isn't the same as public transportation, which usually provides for another bus coming if you've missed the first.  Not true for a schoolbus.

[heartlikealion]

Our bus stop moved from last year's location but people were not happy about it. Now it's back to the original location. We actually opted out of the service for other reasons. Anyway, see if you and/or other neighbors can pull together to switch the bus stop back. You never know.

[skimomma]

I'm sure that can't be enforceable OR legal.

 

I also do not believe it is legal.  But they do "enforce" it by calling and shaming the parents every time so that eventually people submit and either drive/walk their kids to school or make them take the bus.  The school in question is K-5.  For grades 6 and up they have no such requirements.

 

ETA:  One big reason that they have this rule is that for 60% of the school year, it is dark when kids are traveling to school and for 40% of the year, the snowbanks are so tall that kids cannot walk on lawns, they have to walk in the street.  The darkness plus lack of sidewalks in the concern.  And I would almost agree with them except that there are a million street lights and cars are never traveling above 25 mph on those particular roads.  I think it should be left up to parents to decide an a day by day and kid by kid basis.

Edited August 18, 2016 by skimomma

[Jen500]

I would call and try to get it changed.

If this is older kids, the bus probably picks them up very early and in the dark. No sidewalks seems too dangerous. What about in the winter if there is snow?

[OneStepAtATime]

1.  Not safe because of the road conditions.  Definitely complain from that angle.  And no, walking on people's lawns is not the answer.  I have had neighbors that were very belligerent over anyone touching their lawn.  And if anything turned up damaged or missing the student could get blamed. 

 

2.  The distance would be fine if they were going to the school but, as previously mentioned, they are walking to a school bus stop.  If the bus is running late they may have to wait an extended period of time (possibly in bad weather) but how will they know if the bus is late or the bus was early and they missed it?  Another bus is not coming.  This is not public bus transportation where they can count on anther bus showing up eventually.  They patiently wait, but the bus already came, eventually they walk back home to get a ride to school (if there is even anyone available to drive them), and are marked tardy for being late .  Or they don't patiently wait for an extended period, they walk back home assuming they missed the bus, the bus shows up late, they get marked tardy AND they still had to find another ride to school.

[Lanny]

Very dangerous and potentially catastrophic.  Is the bus service operated by the school district or by a private company?  I would raise hell with the school district.  I need to cross a 2 lane highway that does have shoulders.  I walk my bicycle across the highway and I only go about 30 meters on the highway.  That's an accident waiting to happen and it could easily be a fatal accident.

[City Mouse]

I think school districts are only "required" to provide busing if students live more than 2 miles from the school. At least that was how it was in Texas. Moat school districts provide more bus service than that. However, when the district we lived in had budget issues, non-mandatory busing was one of the first things to go.

Edited August 18, 2016 by City Mouse

[BooksandBoys]

I'd be fine with the distance (I walked more than that to the bus every day), but absolutely not with the busy road. High schoolers do stupid things like push each other onto the road to be silly. In fact, I shouted at some high schoolers doing that very thing on a busy road last week.

[DawnM]

Thanks guys. I was unable to call today but I will have a bit more time tomorrow.

 

We are trying to figure out a possible alternative if the schools won't bend.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I think school districts are only "required" to provide busing if students live more than 2 miles from the school. At least that was how it was in Texas. Moat school districts provide more bus service than that. However, when the district we lived in had budget issues, non-mandatory busing was one of the first things to go.

I would not say that this is a universal rule.  It is probably location dependent.  In our state, it is 1.5 miles and hazardous walking routes are taken into consideration.  I didn't realize that the law states that a child can be required to walk 1.5 miles to a bus stop.  It doesn't happen in our district, though. 

[DawnM]

I have no idea if we have any laws about distance, etc...

[poppy]

They are expecting you to drive to drop the kids off. 

[Pegasus]

We are trying to figure out a possible alternative if the schools won't bend.

 

What time does the school start providing supervision of the students?  It may be possible to drop them off at school before heading to work if the timing works out.  At our local elementary schools, kids can get there up to an hour early and be supervised in the gymnasium until the starting bell.

[DawnM]

What time does the school start providing supervision of the students?  It may be possible to drop them off at school before heading to work if the timing works out.  At our local elementary schools, kids can get there up to an hour early and be supervised in the gymnasium until the starting bell.

No, I have to leave for work at 6am and his school starts at 8am. You can get into the building at 7:15am and no earlier.

[DawnM]

They are expecting you to drive to drop the kids off.

That isn't even safe. I would have to stop the car on that 50mph road with a curve behind me where cars can't see me until they are around the curve and almost on me.

[Mom22ns]

I would not say that this is a universal rule.  It is probably location dependent.  In our state, it is 1.5 miles and hazardous walking routes are taken into consideration.  I didn't realize that the law states that a child can be required to walk 1.5 miles to a bus stop.  It doesn't happen in our district, though. 

 

The law here is 1.5 miles too. They can make kids walk that far whether it is to school or to a bus stop. I don't believe there is anything in the law requiring districts to take traffic into account, but they do. I can remember 3 kids being hit and killed or permanently disabled crossing busy streets. Each one had an impact, and now I don't believe the situation that the OP described would happen, but I know it has existed in the past.

[creekland]

Like others, I would complain - esp since in winter, it'll likely be dark in the morning.  

 

The distance is fine.  Mine had to walk or ride bikes 6/10ths of a mile to their bus stop, but it was along a back road with very little traffic.

 

Alternatives... is there another drop off point that could be used?  Could folks in your area car pool and someone drive them to school?

 

Ideally you can get things changed once they are presented with the facts - esp since the bus used to come to you.

[luuknam]

1.  Not safe because of the road conditions.  Definitely complain from that angle.  And no, walking on people's lawns is not the answer.  I have had neighbors that were very belligerent over anyone touching their lawn.  And if anything turned up damaged or missing the student could get blamed.

 

FWIW, when we lived in small town, the first 6 or so feet from the road were actually not part of our property. Sure, they were grassy and *looked* like they were part of our lawn (and we were supposed/required to mow it), but legally speaking, they belonged to the city, and as such, I think a home-owner probably couldn't do much about someone walking on them. I have no idea if something like that could be the case in the OP's case or not.

 

Wrt the OP, it would depend on the age of the kids and how much snow you get. If in winter it's common to have more than 1.5 ft of snow or something, then walking on the lawn would be close to impossible, and it would not be reasonable to have kids of any age walking on the road as described. If snow is not a major concern, then for older kids I don't think this scenario is a big deal.

[Bluegoat]

Yeah, the four feet next to the road don't really belong to the homeowner here, either.  However, I don't think you can count on access during the winter in many places.

 

Sidewals need to come back into fashion as something non-negotiable.

[jen3kids]

When my oldest was in K, I assumed he would walk to school, since we can pretty much see the school from our house.  Then I realized there is no sidewalk, the road narrows and on one side there is no other place to walk because of the retaining wall built by the homeowners a billion years ago when the area was farmland/rural, not suburbia.

 

Then I realized there was no crosswalk, and although the posted speed limit is 25mph, it is more like 30-40.  I asked the school and supposedly we were the first family with school age kids from this particular subdivision - ah, no - there are at least 5 others in the elementary school.  That's when I learned that everyone within walking distance actually drove their kids to school! No bikes, no walking - all being driven.  What a traffic mess at pick up time  - no one carpooled, no one walked, no one biked.  So strange.

 

Upon further exploration of the community, I discovered a safer walking route for my kids, but I had to cross the road with them in one spot and they could cross safely in another.  

 

Oh, and no bike riding on school property - but that is another complaint!

 

I hope you get it sorted out.  It really appears that the 'powers that be' have no idea of where they are expecting kids to walk to get to a bus.

[kiwik]

I would start by assuming it is an oversight and work from there.

[Bluegoat]

When my oldest was in K, I assumed he would walk to school, since we can pretty much see the school from our house.  Then I realized there is no sidewalk, the road narrows and on one side there is no other place to walk because of the retaining wall built by the homeowners a billion years ago when the area was farmland/rural, not suburbia.

 

Then I realized there was no crosswalk, and although the posted speed limit is 25mph, it is more like 30-40.  I asked the school and supposedly we were the first family with school age kids from this particular subdivision - ah, no - there are at least 5 others in the elementary school.  That's when I learned that everyone within walking distance actually drove their kids to school! No bikes, no walking - all being driven.  What a traffic mess at pick up time  - no one carpooled, no one walked, no one biked.  So strange.

 

Upon further exploration of the community, I discovered a safer walking route for my kids, but I had to cross the road with them in one spot and they could cross safely in another.  

 

Oh, and no bike riding on school property - but that is another complaint!

 

I hope you get it sorted out.  It really appears that the 'powers that be' have no idea of where they are expecting kids to walk to get to a bus.

 

Around here, the driving to school thing started to become ubiquitous just over 20 years ago, when my half-sister was small.  Her friend, who lived two blocks from the school in a very safe area, was driven every day, and that was pretty common.

 

I'm sure this has affected the infrastructure for walking kids.

[mom2myboys]

That isn't even safe. I would have to stop the car on that 50mph road with a curve behind me where cars can't see me until they are around the curve and almost on me.

That is the situation at the bus stop? That does not sound like a safe spot for a bus stop, regardless of how far the kids have to walk to get there. It is not safe for the bus to even stop. Has anyone physically looked at the location? Sounds like it may have been planned "on paper", not in person. I hope you can get some satisfaction when you call today.

[Samm]

Having dealt with bus stop issues, I can say that at the beginning of the school year, they will get a million calls and you might not hear back for a long time -- even if you're assigned a "case number."  A faster way to get attention is to actually video yourself walking or driving this route and to send in email to the school system's transportation director and dispatch manager (whoever manages dispatching the buses to your region).  The purpose of your video is to capture how dangerous this route is.  You probably have to call around several times just to figure out who these people and their emails are.  Most importantly, don't send the email to just one person.  

 

I gave up on calling schools a long time ago for really anything that was important.

[TranquilMind]

UGH.   I am going to try to call the school and the bus services today, but I may not have time.  I have started work and may be busy all day.

 

We signed up both kids to ride the bus to school.  The busses have always come into the first area of our neighborhood and the kids meet the bus there.  

 

The bus info came yesterday.  They are no longer coming in to the neighborhood and want my boys to walk almost a 1/2 mile on a very busy 50mph road with no shoulder and no sidewalks.  The only way to stay off the road is to walk on people's lawns.   Grown bikers have been killed on that road because it is has turns you can't see around.

 

Does that seem reasonable to you?

 

No, that's crazy.