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Bluegoat last won the day on October 30 2018

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About Bluegoat

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  1. I would say that in most of the liturgical churches with a structure beyond the parish level the idea of a call is both internal and external. There is the sense that you are being called (though as was said not always one a person wants, it can be more like being dragged into something you aren't interested in.) But also there is always some process whereby the individual presents to the parish, to the higher levels, and they accept that there is or at least might be a call, and there are usually a number of steps to go through beyond that. In my church a parish needs to sponsor you, there is a groups that does all kinds of examination of the person, tests, the bishop has to accept them, they have to do work in several kinds of parishes and the leaders there report back. Then they can be ordained as a deacon but it's still a year to be ordained as a priest and its not a guarantee. Lots and lots of people are rejected, they thought they had a call, but the Church says they didn't.
  2. I'm generally not of the view that jail time should be among the more standard types of punishment unless it's actually necessary to confine people. I do find sentences quite weird at times when you compare them to other crimes, they don't make a lot of sense. But the fine is very low, and I also think more significant community service might be a good thing. Though community service can actually be more of a pain in the butt to the community than a help.
  3. But what other metric are you going to use. You could say the same about any ethical stance, it could be wrong.
  4. "I can absolutely imagine a scenario where my need to be able to speak/live what I genuinely believe to be true is more important than capitulating because my relationship with someone, even my child, might be affected. That would feel like an inauthentic relationship to me. Lovingly holding my boundaries does not have to be a bad, relationship ending thing." Yes, so can I, I have a difficult time understanding where someone could not. What I would say about adult children is that if they make choices that we really have a moral problem with, those are their choices and we are no longer in a position where we should be putting ourselves in a place of authority as we would have when they were kids. We can offer advice, even very frank talk in some cases, but respecting their personhood means allowing them the decision and not going on endlessly about it, like any other adult. But of course that's totally different than actually participating in something yourself. A complication sometimes with kids who live at home is the fact that while it's your home, it's also in a way their home, you are sharing to some extent with another adult. So lets say my kid wanted to have a party with an activity I disapproved of, like a stripper popping out of a cake. Maybe even say I wasn't going to be there so it wouldn't bother me directly. Should I live with it because it is also their house, or is that a sort of participation on my part? I tend to think both people likely feel that this place is their home, and so the other should defer. In the end obviously the owner gets to make the call and I would say no. But if the child is taking it really hard, it is negatively impacting the relationship, I still would say no. And TBH I do not think it would be healthy for the relationship to give in just to maintain the relationship, if that makes sense.
  5. I usually wonder what's really going on with articles like these. Why was the club allowed to meet until now? What changed? Is this affecting other groups, and if not, is that purposeful? Are kids from other groups upset about the change? Is it really practical for students to have after school programs, or does that mean parents need to arrange transportation? My experience has been that often there is a little more going on behind the scenes that accounts for people being annoyed, even if it is just that there are real personality clashes involved. I am blasé on a lot of levels with religious meetings like this. Our schools here generally operate secularly, but the kids still spend a ton of time in assemblies and special classes dedicated to instilling whatever the administration and secular culture thinks their values should be, that I have become pretty cynical about it all. Most of it is pretty vapid too.
  6. I think this idea of telling children about hypocrisy is interesting. It's something that will come up everywhere, there are always people who do this sort of thing, in fact I might go so far as to say we all do it at times. IN a healthy parish the leadership should try and be aware of when it is affecting the health of the group and address it, though no leader can be aware of everything. Even then it will always happen. But from the POV of others - frankly I don't think the struggles or blindness of others in my parish are my responsibility to point out, worry about, or judge, in most instances, I frankly have enough on my plate with my own issues and those people who I am in fact responsible to oversee (my kids and to some extent other children under my care in the Sunday school, and perhaps a person who asks for my help.) There are others who do have that role but they don't and should not be telling me about it. That is exactly what I would tell my kids if they were noticing such things. No, generally adults should not reprimand children for a thing and do it themselves. However, that does not mean kids should not listen to those adults about things like noise, or that they should be judging them. It's not their role. If they are noticing adults setting a bad example it simply means they are very much old enough to begin to hold themselves to what they know is the right thing to do, that should be more than enough to hold their attention.
  7. Ordination isn't really about a job, it's about a state, so something that is a job isn't particularly analogous. A better comparison would be the idea that only women can be mothers, or men fathers.
  8. As far as the marriage within the group issue, I don't think it's a matter of it being simply a stupid idea. There can be real difficulties in a mixed marriage, especially one that asks a lot of people in terms of lifestyle. It's something younger people often don't think will be an issue, but later on it can be, especially with regard to children. I think it's actually less of a problem for people who are very deliberate about their beliefs and practice, they will tend to discuss these things and often marry someone who has a similar understanding, even if it's a different background. I knew an Orthodox man married to a conservative Quaker women, for example, and it was very successful though at first it seems crazy. But they both understood the nature of deep commitment to God and to the community and dealt with how to manage family and kids ahead of time. For people who are less focused on that kind of thing, they may be very faithful but in a more practical way, sometimes they don't think about those elements, one may turn out to be far more attached than he or she had realised, and when there is a conflict it comes as a surprise that the expectations are so different.
  9. I find the Russians and particularly the Russophiles to have some approaches that are kind of hard to take at times, for sure. However, I am afraid to some extent that sort of thing is a problem of groups. I'm Anglican, and there are certainly elements in Anglicanism that drive me really crazy on occasion, and while I don't deal with them too much in my own parish at the moment that is really just luck. I've talked about this to another Anglican friend of mine who mostly is in the Catholic church these days, because she lives in a town where that is the only church you can get to without an airplane, in fact the bishop gave permission for her to receive communion because there is simply no other church there, apostolic or otherwise. She's said though that despite her own issues with Anglicanism and even just the local problem of not having a parish, she's not thinking of becoming Catholic, it's just out of the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. To a large degree I think moving between the apostolic/liturgical denominations is like that. And if you are very involved there will always come a time when you are immersed in the problems and they get to you. Big church issues, or local drama/culture issues, we all have them. It's the problem of Hell is other people. The only thing is that when we try and go it alone, we carry those problems with us, we can just overlook them in ourselves.
  10. Yes, but at least they have some claim to public authority, the AP style-guide really has a pretty limited purpose.
  11. Well, the OCA is related to the Russian church, they aren't inclined to be keen on the EP. These kinds of problems are found in every religious or ideological group. Ultimately his writings are part of the Church as much as any are, whether they like it or not. The EP isn't the only person in the Orthodox Church to talk about environmental concerns, either. But if you are looking to see an Orthodox approach to the environment he's well worth reading. He places the environmental crises firmly in the realm of a spiritual problem, it's cause and it's remedy.
  12. I have doubts about equating changes in language to changes in the AP style-book. They aren't the English language equivalent of the Academie francaise. They are just a bunch of people with an opinion.
  13. Local parishes often have real gaps, or a particular flavour, even if they are well run. If they aren't, even more so. It's just the nature of being a local organisation.
  14. They do actually. The Ecumenical Patriarch has written some of the most profound Christian writings on climate change you will see, not just a few things but many.
  15. Lots of people think whole history of the universe is post-Fall.
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