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Everything posted by poppy

  1. Thanks all! She has settled on "will feeding a mealworm a day for 2 weeks help a chick grow bigger than one who doesn't get a mealworm a day?" I have told her to not feed the mealworm to that one chick in front of the others. No stress.
  2. My daughter wants to participate in the science fair and wants to involve our chicks (which will be about a month old). I'm stumped, and am crowdsourcing ... Got any fun ideas?
  3. So first you note there is a distance between ‘they are all liars or delused’ ’ and ‘full on social comstruction’. Then you say I’m unreasonable for not being thrilled that many, many posters celebrate the ‘all liars or deluded’ position? But use the collective ‘we’ so... do you really think every poster agrees unconditionally with you ? Or any other specific poster? I suspect that is not the case and there actually is quite a spectrum. You aren’t on the extreme and honestly, I’d bet I’m not either.
  4. If you go through the posts again you will see this is precisely what I argued. I am not asking women to feel guilty or resentful at all . And please do not call me out (again) on using ‘women’ without qualifing that I mean cis women. I have been avoiding using the term based on the requests of posters here.
  5. It sounds like you really think every trans person is a deluded or a liar, and will extend no sympathy or respect beyond that. It’s socially acceptable blackface and nothing else. This post got 10 likes . 10! I’m not saying you are hateful. I’m not attempting to censor you. I’m glad you posted and were genuine. I didn’t quote you to argue - I respect being done with talking. I have been there myself sometimes. It does makes me really sad that this is the prevailing WTM view. This is a post about other posters here and about friend of mine. This is why I keep replying.
  6. I am not assuming women are the oppressors.
  7. This is a complete dodge of the question should a marginalized group not fight for rights and basic dignity if it impacts another group and makes them feel resentful. I know you are able to go on at length about how you reject gender as a category and many here agree with you. I get that . But I also assume you as a feminist do not avoid feminist issues because it breeds resentment in men.
  8. Why are you talking about shame and remorse and accusations? That’s bizarre to me. Here is what I was thinking of. When women got the right to vote, their concern was not ‘this will not every mans vote have less weight—- And that is just as important as our desire for a voice!” When gay people were granted the right to marry, they had spent years and years enduring debates about how granting them that right was an affront to the concept of marriage and would hurt heterosexuality... and of course is still a simmering source of anger among many straight people. It most certainly ‘brewed resentment’. So what, they should have ... accepted civil unions maybe? That seems to be a rough analogy to ‘transwomen aren’t women’, I guess? Is that what you are arguing?
  9. More effective ....if your stance is to positions people who are trans as a threat. There is no other marginalized group who you would speak about this way. How do you protect the rights of women while protecting men? How do you protect the rights of Native Americans while protecting the rights of Whites? Those are all questions that can be part of the conversation..... but are pretty foul if assumed as an ‘effective starting point’. IMO.0 By by the way, it took me a minute to figure out what TWAW is, because I do not go to tons and tons many message boards on this topic. It seems to stand for ‘transwomen are women’.
  10. Couple things to reply to here. Earlier you said I conflate sex and gender. Here you say I boil it down to who my friends are. I don't know why you think either is true. This is a matter of principle, not "niceness" as we all all agreed so please stop with the belittling or trying to discredit me. Also I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. I most definitely did not say "it doesn't' effect women in any real way". Perhaps you are thinking of a different poster? The reason I talked about people I know is that Bluegoat asserted that fighting for transgender people's rights is a means of keeping the powerful in power. Because it is based on a social identity, it does not address class or race or sex. THAT is not my experience at all, that lack of intersectionality. Basically my argument is that transgenderism is not a means of further subjugating the poor! I'd appreciate it if you spoke to that point, which is the substance not personal. I also saw some thoughtful posts by Stella M & texasmom which I really want to reply to, but I have a flight in 3 hours so I really gotta go. Please dont' take my silence is ignoring or disrespect of the discussion!
  11. Are you saying you believe that the logical end is that every trans person is basically Rachel Dolezal?
  12. Just about everyone I know who is transgender in real life is pretty poor. There's a minister who I think gets a good salary? But that's the exception. The people who are fighting for them are (in my world) my church - as part of our social justice mission. So this doesn't resonate with me at all. I can tell it's something you are passionate about. Is that how it is in your country? Trans people are generally wealthy men? Zero intersectionality? It's just so far from my lived experience.
  13. I'd argue more it reflects it than shapes it, but I'm sure it is a little of both.
  14. I am a feminist, not a genderist, so I am not the best ever person to speak to this point. But it's obvious to me that comparing the struggles of various marginalized groups is logical. I won't be scorned out of comparing the histories and struggles and --- yes, intersections -- between race, sex, sexual orientation, class, gender, disability, age, religion. There are reasonable analogies to be drawn between different categories. Saying "it's not a 1:1 perfect fit so throw it all out!" is nonsense.
  15. Unladylike is entirely your words. I keep seeing this straw man over and over. Women aren't allowed to have opinions / women aren't allowed to speak up..... and I see zero evidence of that on these boards, or really in general, I have no idea why it is the go-to argument. I get you are raging against Caitlin Jenner here and I have no opinion about that person. Magazine awards are given to generate publicity, and are not objective. There is no human on earth who thinks Blake Shelton is actually the Sexist Man Alive. The more out-there the suggestion is, the more the magazines win.
  16. What is it you think activitist today are working towards People fighting white supremacy are not fighting for BLACK supremacy. They are fighting for a better world for all. For inclusion. No one is obliterated in a just world.
  17. I'm super confused. What is your definition of identity politics? Only applies to identities that do not exist? Loads of people couldn't vote in the beginning of America. Less than 10% of the population, in the beginning.
  18. Women gained the vote because the they banded together and advocated for their group. That is the actual definition of identity politics.
  19. Can you untangle this for me? Science says race doesnt' exist; it's just a social construct. Which does exist.. But gender is a social construct too. But there is not hard evidence that it exists? What "hard evidence" are you seeking to confirm the existence of an social construct?
  20. No, it's not the death toll at all, we have a delightful society. I was replying to your claim: " Policy is absolutely being given by identity politics in the US, it's a significant factor in the rise in white nationalism - an identity group opposed of people that previously didn't think of themselves in identarian terms. The move to stripping away itself is a reaction. It's quite different from a landscape where the focus is more firmly on universal vales and experiences.' The ONLY way things change is when a small group of people -- and most definitely not the strongest or richest -- convince others. There is no world where people universally decide to expand rights without the work on the ground from activists. For example: expanding suffrage to women was identity politics at work. At least in the US. As I've admitted, I am not as familiar with history in other parts of the world.
  21. Again I want to bring up that identarian terms has made a great deal of positive progress in the US - see my previous post. "Universal values" are a social construct, IMO.
  22. I wholeheartedly disagree that science is what got us to where we are in terms of race. It was blood, sweat and tears of many activists. It was an identity group self-advocating, finding allies, courting public opinion, fighting on multiple legal fronts, strategizing. Not a measured and fair scientific process.
  23. The idea of race as a social construct did not exist back when people were making arguments like " . But what if you're asking someone to go against what they fundamentally believe to be true about science, biology, what it means to be a man/woman, etc.? " about race. The post-modernists pushing gender theory now were the same philosophical crew as is being torn apart here (Michel Foucault etc) for pushing that concept. If identity is at least in part socially constructed, gender certainly may be one category, no?.
  24. Thank you for clarifying. I'm still not sure I get it -- I don't see manipulation so much as a pretty fundamental different worldview. And I haven't seen a decrease in willingness to be -- for lack of better term -- "pronoun flexible". But again, I am in the US, it may be different where you are.
  25. Ah, but, this was precisely the argument made by the anti-desegregation and the anti-miscegenation crowd. It's a slippery slope, stand tall to what you know to be right. They were wrong- I'm sure we all agree on that. Are you wrong to refuse to use preferred pronouns? Maybe. I think you're right that it's not about emotion, it's about principle. Social pressure to compel people to behave in a certain way isn't always wrong. It's not OK to use certain deeply repulsive sexist and racist words, even where swearing is general accepted-- you will be frowned upon by many. I actually think we are all generally OK with that. It's not socially acceptable to call kids retarded anymore, either, and that's not a terrible thing. So I don't find the "no one should shame me into behaving a certain way" argument 100% compelling. It can go too far, it can be repressive, but that tactic isn't inherently bad. I do agree government should not compel speech to the degree of citing people for not using certain pronouns. I could see a private company or even a college frowning on a person for that, but definitely not a court system.
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