Rant: To the woman sipping coffee outside Starbucks at 8:30pm . . .

[Corraleno]

SKL, are your girls by any chance small for their age? I know that children who are adopted from that region can be very petite, and I have an adopted DD who has always looked a couple of years younger than she is. When she was 7, she wore a size 4 or 5 — and looked  that age.

 

Whoever called the police may not have known that the door was locked, or that you would only be in FedEx for 3 minutes, or that the girls were 7 (not younger). 

 

Jackie

[Jean in Newcastle]

No, I'm not saying to not call when there is apparent danger. Not at all saying that.

 

I'm saying we shouldn't treat calling cops like tattling to teacher. It's a waste of cop time and it can create unforeseen additional problems for another person that are not warranted to inflict on them.

 

Sure, helping kids deal with crap they struggle with sucks and is just a part of parenting. I agree with that too, Jean.

 

That doesn't mean I go looking to add to another parent's struggle when it isn't truly necessary.

Well, personally, I wouldn't have made the call - at least for kids left for such a short duration.  But like I said before, to me my initial reaction was all to do with the fact that it was a pretty non-issue of a situation - police was called, police came, saw, (didn't conquer) and left.  To me, the emotional reaction of the parent in such a situation has more power to make a lasting effect on a child, or to help them to shrug it off.  

[Lara in Colo]

No, I'm not saying to not call when there is apparent danger. Not at all saying that.

 

I'm saying we shouldn't treat calling cops like tattling to teacher. It's a waste of cop time and it can create unforeseen additional problems for another person that are not warranted to inflict on them.

 

Sure, helping kids deal with crap they struggle with sucks and is just a part of parenting. I agree with that too, Jean.

 

That doesn't mean I go looking to add to another parent's struggle when it isn't truly necessary.

 

 

And we have delegated our responsibility of caring for each other (and society as a whole) to the govt (police etc...)

Then we gripe that govt is too big and our taxes are too high.  Well instead of 50 police officers, we now need 100 because they are always out babysitting adults 'telling" on each other.

[Barb_]

I don't think that leaving young children alone in a car at night is a normal thing for most people, and I really don't see how it gives your kids "the opportunity to mature." Good grief. You are massively overreacting about the whole thing.

I can see it. A child who is I afraid to be left alone with mom nearby at 7 won't freak out when she runs to the store for milk and leaves the girl home with her sister at 8. The same child will feel comfortable at 10 for a couple of hours. It's a gentle loosening of the line. Parents should be able to make those sorts of calls for themselves.

[I.Dup.]

I don't blame the OP for venting here- it's not like she took off all her clothes, acted like a maniac and made it on the evening news. She just made a post and vented here. No biggie. :confused1:

 

She's a single mom (umm, no picnic in the park), had a rough day, the person that was going to bring dinner didn't, everyone was probably hungry, and she was probably frustrated about that, in a hurry, and then a freaking cop shows up and confronts her and makes her feel like a crappy parent. Sounds like one of those days when nothing goes well.

 

:grouphug: OP. And I agree with the other posters who say that people need to go back to minding their own damn business.

[SKL]

I don't know for sure that this is the end of it, though.  They have my license plate number, that's all they need to find out everything about me.  The cases I've heard about thought everything was fine until they got a visit from CPS at a later date.

[Joanne]

I understand why the OP is irritated.

 

I understand why the cops were called.

 

For me, it's one of those "things" you have to accept when you make certain parenting choices. I had to "accept" that busybodies would have some level of reaction when I nursed my kids past typical ages for the US. I had to expect that some people would have some level of reaction when I chose alternative vaccination schedules. I had to expect that people would have some level of reaction when I let my "opposite sex" kids use their gender specific bathroom in public places when they were young.

 

Leaving unattended kids in a car is a known risk - debating the *actual* risk in the OP's case is really not the point. The OP made a choice, an observer made a choice, the choices are both understandable and the conflict predictable.

 

There is not a right OR wrong in this one.

[Sisyphus]

I would have guessed toothbrush shank, not gun.

Have you been watching Orange is the new Black, too?

[Joanne]

.

I don't know for sure that this is the end of it, though.  They have my license plate number, that's all they need to find out everything about me.  The cases I've heard about thought everything was fine until they got a visit from CPS at a later date.

 

 

Honestly, CPS is not like that. Only in exaggerated, rare, and "we don't know the whole story" cases. Or when an organization wants to exploit a case for their agenda.

[Lara in Colo]

I can see it. A child who is I afraid to be left alone with mom nearby at 7 won't freak out when she runs to the store for milk and leaves the girl home with her sister at 8. The same child will feel comfortable at 10 for a couple of hours. It's a gentle loosening of the line. Parents should be able to make those sorts of calls for themselves.

 

I agree.  And we should be able to make parenting decisions based on what is best for the child/family instead reacting from fear.  Fear that the media has trained us to feel or the fear of someone reporting us to the authorities. 

[happi duck]

I guess I've been raised differently when it comes to law enforcement. I was taught to be polite, respectful, and truthful and things will be just fine. They are human. Every encounter I have had bears this out. I've never had a bad encounter with law enforcement. I did get a lecture from a deputy in Texas when I used the shoulder to make a right turn (it's very illegal there apparently but not here in MS), but considering he could have taken me to jail it was all good. This was probably due to my "yes, sir", "no, sir", and "I'm sorry I wasn't aware, sir". I can't say I've ever been afraid of them, though, not even the one in Louisiana who was very upset that my MS antique tag was valid for 100 years and he couldn't write me up for no seat belt since my truck predates seat belts and then he couldn't get me for no insurance as it wasn't required by my state at the time. Even though he was hostile, I wasn't afraid of him. It never crossed my mind.

 

Some kids, some adults too, get intimidated by the police...simply because they do.

[SKL]

I don't blame the OP for venting here- it's not like she took off all her clothes, acted like a maniac and made it on the evening news. She just made a post and vented here. No biggie. :confused1:

 

LOL.  You're right.  I started telling the cop "it isn't hot" and he said "that's not the point" so I just got in my car and waited for him to move his out of my way.  I might have had a few other things to say to the cop, but I didn't have time for it, and besides, I never heard of an argument with cops ending well.  ;)  No offense to any cops on here.  :)  So yeah, I needed to vent somewhere safe.  This place is pretty safe even if a lot of people don't agree with me.

[unsinkable]

Have you been watching Orange is the new Black, too?

No, is it good?

 

I had just re-watched last year's Breaking Bad finale.

 

Toothbrush shanks play a role.

[SKL]

I think I need a cupcake.

[unsinkable]

I think I need a cupcake.

(((Hugs)))

[Lara in Colo]

I think I need a cupcake.

 

Or a drink!!!  Check my other post--- you can come here-- I have a huge bottle of Southern Comfort and a 2 liter bottle of Coke!

[Barb_]

I agree. And we should be able to make parenting decisions based on what is best for the child/family instead reacting from fear. Fear that the media has trained us to feel or the fear of someone reporting us to the authorities.

I'm glad you understood my post. I'm typing on my phone wearing not-my-strongest reading glasses. Recipe for disaster.

[SKL]

Or a drink!!!  Check my other post--- you can come here-- I have a huge bottle of Southern Comfort and a 2 liter bottle of Coke!

 

I don't drink alcohol.  Maybe I should start.

[Lara in Colo]

I'm glad you understood my post. I'm typing on my phone wearing not-my-strongest reading glasses. Recipe for disaster.

 

I just got sobered up after coming home and having a couple of drinks.  I think I can officially state that I am no longer drunk-posting!

[Barb_]

LOL. You're right. I started telling the cop "it isn't hot" and he said "that's not the point" so I just got in my car and waited for him to move his out of my way. I might have had a few other things to say to the cop, but I didn't have time for it, and besides, I never heard of an argument with cops ending well. ;) No offense to any cops on here. :) So yeah, I needed to vent somewhere safe. This place is pretty safe even if a lot of people don't agree with me.

When the cops showed up at Barnes and noble, he scolded me saying he wouldn't even let his 15yo out of his sight at a book store. Then he went on to tell me that he would have hauled me in for neglect had they been a couple if years younger (his exact phrasing). My younger daughter was gulping down a budding panic attack at that. Seriously what do you say to that?

 

Luckily the most recent experience was with a really nice officer who told me he had no choice but to follow up but that I was doing nothing wrong. He also told the kids he was thrilled they were playing outside on a pretty day instead of holed up in the house in front of a screen and not to let anyone make them believe playing outside was a bad idea. I could have smooched him :)

[Barb_]

I just got sobered up after coming home and having a couple of drinks. I think I can officially state that I am no longer drunk-posting!

Nah, the residual alcohol is helping you translate for me.

[Liz CA]

I see both sides and would have watched the car for some time as well before taking any action. I may also have been tempted to run into the store if I knew I would be coming out within seconds.

I think I can also imagine SKL's situation. When you are a single parent, there never is a break. I could run out and leave ds with dh, without a dh, you don't get that. When your babysitting arrangements fall through, you still have to get your work done, worry about your kids, worry about your job because the buck stops with you...it's a stressful situation.

 

SKL, I hope you can get more people supporting you, nice, trustworthy neighbors, grandparents, friends...because sometimes you will need to call someone to run to FedEx and it would be nice to know the kids are fine for a few minutes with a trusted adult, rather than worrying about dragging them into the store or worrying about leaving them in the car for five minutes and worrying other people. Is there any way you can line up a couple of options in case an arrangement fails in the future?

 

Don't dwell on it any longer. Your package is off, your kids are fine...get a bowl of ice cream.  :)

[Sisyphus]

No, is it good?

 

I had just re-watched last year's Breaking Bad finale.

 

Toothbrush shanks play a role.

It's awesome! The writing is great. Could do without the soft core porn...I know my oldest would love it but not that aspect so I am annoyed it contains so much. It also features toothbrush shanks, which I had never heard of. Obviously, sheltered.

[Delirium]

I haven't read all the replies but man, I want to live somewhere that the cops respond in 3 minutes. That's spectacular.  Secondly, I've had it happen to me. We'd just come from the library and Kiddo didn't want to go into the store amidst Christmas season. I was pulled over shortly after leaving the parking lot. I explained she was nearly 9 and I had been in the store less than but pretty close to half an hour. He understood she didn't want to go in and that she was old enough to be unattended. I thanked him and Kiddo got a "caught you being good" coupon for a free cupcake.

 

It happens. Sometimes the wrong people get to deal with a peace officer. Sometimes, hopefully, it saves a kid from harm. Sorry it was a frustrating experience.

[Catwoman]

I don't know for sure that this is the end of it, though. They have my license plate number, that's all they need to find out everything about me. The cases I've heard about thought everything was fine until they got a visit from CPS at a later date.

Wow, I hope nothing like that happens! :(

 

You're obviously a good mom, and you didn't do anything illegal!

[8circles]

I don't think SKL did anything even remotely careless, .

I agree with you. But neither did whoever called the police. This isn't an either/or situation. The reaction to the police being called to check on children is too much. The police weren't called ON SKL, they were called to check on children. The children were checked & life went on. What's all the drama for?

[BlsdMama]

It is simply a matter of unawareness. It is forgivable.

 

Do three things:hre

1. Use your state or county website to check your zip code for pedophiles.

2. Google how many children are abducted each day along with the statistics for child trading in Portland and Seattle.

3. Read about those sweet Iowa cousins who were abducted less than ten miles from the house I grew up in.

 

It happens every where. I am flouted with the sheer number of predators that exist that anyone lets their kids roam the neighborhood.

[ThisIsTheDay]

It is simply a matter of unawareness. It is forgivable.

 

Do three things:hre

1. Use your state or county website to check your zip code for pedophiles.

2. Google how many children are abducted each day along with the statistics for child trading in Portland and Seattle.

3. Read about those sweet Iowa cousins who were abducted less than ten miles from the house I grew up in.

 

It happens every where. I am flouted with the sheer number of predators that exist that anyone lets their kids roam the neighborhood.

 

You are completely and utterly mistaken (unless I can't tell if you are being sarcastic).

 

1. I can only search Sexual Offenders, which are different than pedophiles, but pedophiles or sexual offenders (and there is a difference) by and large statistically do not go roaming the streets for children they don't know.  They stick with kids they do know. Your kids are much (muchmuchmuch) more endangered by someone you bring into their lives.

 

2.  True stranger abductions are extremely rare.  Extremely rare.  That's why you read about them in the paper even when they happen several states away.

 

3.  See number 2.

 

"Sheer number of predators"?  It doesn't happen everywhere.  Kids roam their neighborhoods all the time and are just fine.

[SKL]

If I were to allow the child predator news to scare me, I shouldn't be letting my kids sleep in their own room downstairs.  The sheer number of kids who are abducted from their own bedrooms!  It's more than the sheer number of kids who are abducted by strangers from locked cars in front of a storefront which their mom has ducked into for a few minutes.  And what about the sheer number of parents who have been murdered so that the predator can get to a child?  How can I go on exposing my kids to that risk day in and day out?

[elegantlion]

I am sorry you had a crappy day. I would have been beyond irritated and upset. I live in an area where a rather gruesome parking lot abduction happened, I still would have considered leaving the kids in the car in that situation.

[Renee in NC]

She had to have called the minute I walked into FedEx in order for the cops to be there that fast.  And it's FedEx.  Not a bar, not a casino, not a hotel.  How long does anyone stay in FedEx?  I walked in there with a FedEx envelope bearing a FedEx label.  No mystery there.

 

If you don't know how long someone is going to be away, wait a little while and then call.

 

These are not babies, they are second-graders.  Most of us walked to school and back alone, played outside without supervision all summer, and even stayed home alone for short periods at that age.

 

 

I absolutely agree with you.

[Renee in NC]

Hey SKL, maybe you'd like to add this to the thread about More advanced work as a trend? ;p

 

I think it was silly of her to call and silly that parents have been given fears about people like that, not because I think those fears aren't valid, but because I think it's awful any parent should feel that way.

 

I think an average second grader (age 7 or 8?) should be reasonably expected to stay in the car for however long mom is in FedEx baring excessive conditions, extreme heat or other issue. You could have spent 20 minutes in the FedEx and I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

 

If I had been really worried, I'd have stuck around watching the van and probably creeped you out that way. LOL

 

Amen! A second-grader is perfectly capable of sitting in a locked car for a few minutes.

[WishboneDawn]

There has to be a happy medium. Can't children be taught to sit for 5 minutes without causing the car to explode?

 

This is the type of reasoning that causes our children to never grow up. We wonder why we are so tired all the time--- because we keep our children "safe" by never allowing them them any perceived dangers-- so we do everything for them and take them with us all the time.

 

Children at 8 yrs old 100 yrs ago could be left at home, with younger children, and a gun to ward off intruders.

 

Now we cannot leave them in a locked car, 50 ft from mom, for 5 minutes?

Yup. That's where I'm at. I'm the parent. I can assess risk and REAL risk not every bit of danger that might possibly catch my fancy. I do not have to pretend there's someone waiting to abduct my children everywhere I go because that is simply not the case. Two seconds graders in a locked car at 8:30 pm for 15 mins seems very reasonable to me.

[Wheres Toto]

And why should the kids be upset that a police officer took the time to make sure they were o.k.?  "Wow, kids - isn't it good to know our friends the police will help keep an eye on us and keep us safe like that? "  said calmly (even if you were not so calm on the inside).

 

I probably would leave the kids in the car under the same circumstances, especially if the FedEx store had windows and I could see them the whole time (in case there ended up being some problem with the package).

 

But the above stood out to me.  I always make sure to never say anything bad about the police to my kids, and talk about how they are helpful.  It's why when I was pulled over for speeding, I ended up asking the officer to talk to my son when he was 6, because for some reason he was afraid.  I realized they didn't get the school experience of meeting the police and learning they aren't that scary.   The officer was very nice about it and I didn't get a ticket (maybe because I pulled over where there was a safe spot instead of waiting for him to put on his lights - it was a small parking lot, if he had gone by I would have just pulled out again).

[Mom0012]

How would she know it was locked? And there have been stories about cars being stolen with children inside. It may be rare but it happens.

In my mind, it was none of her business, so she didn't need to know if it was locked.

 

I've dragged my kids into our teeny little town's post office that I can park right in front of because of all the busybodies of the world. I am not one bit afraid of anything happening to them in he three second it takes to throw the mail in the box, and feel qualified to make that judgement, but don't want to risk dealing with a conflict because some jerk wants to feel like they are doing their civic duty. Unless there is some sign of abuse or real danger, I wish people would mind their own business. I know of 2 people who were feet away from their sleeping children while in locked cars, and both were either threatened with a police call or the police were actually called. Ridiculous!

 

I don't think the OP is overreacting. I would be livid.

[marbel]

Don't know how I'd feel about it as this particular thing has never happened to me.  I don't remember how old my kids were the first time I left them in the car. 

 

I remember before I was 8 my dad would leave my sister and me in the car, with the keys so we could listen to the radio, while he went into a bar for a few.  Now she was older so it probably wasn't illegal but when I think about it now, wow.  We were probably safer in the car while he was in the bar than after when he was driving home!

 

Anyway I'm still wondering how OP knows who called the cops.  It could have been someone in a car in the parking lot.  It could have been another passer-by.   I get the venting thing, but I don't get how you are sure it was that woman.  Sorry if I missed the post where you answered that question already (I tried to read carefully); I know it's been asked.

 

Sounds like a bad day all around and I hope today is better.

[Annie G]

I'm so glad I'm old enough to have raised my kids way back in the dark ages. Our kids walked or rode their bikes all over, went to the park by themselves ( where they met their friends who were also there  without parents). By the time they were 11 they were allowed to go to the city pool without a parent, and when we ran errands they brought books because they often preferred to read in the car rather than run into the post office, gas station, etc.  Of course something *could* have happened but it was our decision to make and nobody interfered. 

[Carrie12345]

A bit of devil's advocate...

 

I think I would probably call if I saw this happen at, say, a supermarket or... casino (there's aparently a big issue with that one!) In front of a row of quicky stores, not a chance. Unless I was standing there for a long time and questioning the guardian's return.

 

I do leave my kids in the car for quicky stops; paying cash for gas, grabbing a gallon of milk, running into the post office. The same (3-4 of 5) kids I let bike around the neighborhood without so much as a cell phone. And I leave my cell in the car for them!

 

It's an enormous leap to assume danger from a 3 minute stay in the care when compared to general daily risks.

[momto10blessings]

Some kids, some adults too, get intimidated by the police...simply because they do.

I have 2 cop friends, yet if there is a cop following me on the road I turn into the most paranoid woman on the planet.

[mrs.m]

 

ETA:  I should note that after receiving that cop letter years ago, I looked up the law in that city and confirmed that it is not illegal to leave kids of any age in a car (at any hour of the day).  It is a matter of discretion re safety.

 

It's a state law here. Did you check into that? Even if the state does not have a specific law prohibiting leaving children inside a vehicle, criminal charges can be filed under more general laws, such as endangering the welfare of a minor, negligent parenthood, or reckless endangerment.  The duty of a parent to protect a child from injury is imposed through a legal relationship. 

 

 

(not that I think what you did was wrong or anything. Your children weren't in danger. But more that the preschool and police might have had more legal footing than you realized in the first place.)

[Cera]

My 6 and 8 year olds wanted to go into the store to buy milk without me.  I let them (because I certainly went in for milk at their age, loved having the responsibility and learned a lot).  

 

I did stand outside the door of the store though and watch, not because I was worried about their safety or abilities but because I was worried about some idiot calling the police because a pair of kids were buying milk alone.

 

eta: I figure I'm building a more capable, responsible generation.  One gallon of milk at a time.

[speedmom4]

I would not have thought any thing about a couple of second graders sitting in a car in front of a store for a few minutes. It doesn't sound like your children were in any harm. But I would look at the situation as a warning. I would make sure that I didn't leave the kids in the car anymore just in case someone else were to call. I know it's an inconvenience but it might save you a headache down the road. People are so afraid for children these days and some tend to overreact. I would adjust my actions a bit to make sure no one misunderstands my intentions again. 

 

God Bless!

 

Elise in NC

[Parrothead]

.

 

 

Honestly, CPS is not like that. Only in exaggerated, rare, and "we don't know the whole story" cases. Or when an organization wants to exploit a case for their agenda.

And how is SKL, or any parent for that matter, to know which will happen. Maybe one of us is 99 out of 100 and will get that knock on the door that begins a nightmare scenario.

 

You can say CPS is not like that and drop the qualifiers or realize that yes, in some areas CPS is exactly like that. Maybe not every case, but it does happen.

[twinmami01]

I don't believe your story based on the timeline you provided. It seems odd that a call could be made and the police dispatched to that location in 3 minutes.

It is totally possible. The police officer could have been in the parking lot of Starbucks or Fed Ex. He could have been around the corner when the call was dispatched.

[Callie]

I don't think that leaving young children alone in a car at night is a normal thing for most people, and I really don't see how it gives your kids "the opportunity to mature."  Good grief.  You are massively overreacting about the whole thing.

I notice that people keep referring to 8:30 p.m. as night (like it is dark).  Is it dark at that time of the evening this time of year in most places?  It is still daylight here at 8:30 p.m. now.  In the middle of summer it is still daylight up until about 9:45 p.m. in my area.

[Alexigail]

I'm not really worried about my kids getting kidnapped or carjacked or anything like that.  I don't leave them in the car alone because we could be hit by another vehicle.  Parking lot accidents are common around here and my kids would be scared and not know what to do, not to mention the risk of injury if they had their belts off.  I was kind of surprised reading all these responses about abduction etc when an accident seems much more likely than any of that stuff.

 

OP I hope you have a better day.  I'm paranoid about cops even though I'm about as straight-laced as you can get.  I'm not sure I agree 100% with your reaction, but I will say that there are days that can be so hard and I know what that feels like.  Regardless of all the opinions about leaving kids or taking them with, I think you're a good mom who was doing her best with a stressful day.  

[Rebecca VA]

Sorry that happened to you, and I completely understand how stressed you must be.  When I was in second grade, I walked to school every day alone.  When I was in fifth grade, I walked all the way across town -- well over a mile -- home to an empty house each day.  (My mom had died and my dad was at work.)  No one ever called the cops on me, and I was always perfectly safe.

 

Some people are just busybodies.  I suppose calling in social services on a stressed-out mom gives meaning to their lives, or something.

 

[AimeeM]

I don't believe your story based on the timeline you provided. It seems odd that a call could be made and the police dispatched to that location in 3 minutes.

Not odd around here. I live in a downtown area and the patrol cars/amubulances/etc show amazing response time, lol (to our benefit, really).

[Parrothead]

I notice that people keep referring to 8:30 p.m. as night (like it is dark). Is it dark at that time of the evening this time of year in most places? It is still daylight here at 8:30 p.m. now. In the middle of summer it is still daylight up until about 9:45 p.m. in my area.

In the more northern areas, yes, it can be dark. Remember the further north one goes the closer one gets to the part of the world that is in darkness 24 hours a day by the winter solstice. As we are past the summer solstice for this year is is already getting dark earlier and earlier. i commented to dh two evenings ago that it is dark before 8p now. Where I live it is dark by 4:30p durning the week of Christmas.

[warneral]

What a pain! Big hugs OP.