Guest Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I am not comfortable leaving my kids in the car, so I don't. Even if I were comfortable, I wouldn't because I would know it's a possibility that someone might call. SKL, the caller may not have known how long you were gone (or going to be gone) and was concerned. I wouldn't be upset if that were the case. If she truly did call to start some drama, knowing the kids were okay, then shame on her. However, that is the risk you take when you leave your kids in the car. I do understand you being upset, but it's going to be okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't care how long the kids were in the car. I don't car if the lady was being a busybody or ridiculous calling the cops so fast. I don't care if it was day or night, hot or cold. I don't car if the kids were in the car 3 minutes or 3 hours. All of that is irrelevant. In most states it is against the law to leave children under a certain age unattended in a vehicle, that is the relevant point. So don't do it. Why "don't do it" if it isn't illegal where one lives? That is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm going to assume the OP has good judgement about her neighborhood and the weather. There's no reason why the woman who called the police couldn't have waited a few minutes and just watched the car from where she was sitting. I've been out around town and seen small dc who appeared unattended. I watch and wait for a bit. I can also picture a scenario where it is completely obvious that a person is going to FedEx. It depends on the layout of the strip mall, how many and what kind of stores. I'm going to assume the OP has good judgment on this point too. I did once tell a police officer I happened to see in the parking about woman who had a very small child buckled in the front seat of her car. Since I had seen the woman park and take child out I knew she had done that. Since I had to walk by vehicle I saw a cars eat thrown in the back, so the woman had a seat. It was nice enough, new enough vehicle and the woman took the child into Whole Foods so it was safe too assume the problem was not being able to afford a proper seat. In that situation, I think the woman was a grandma babysitting for the day and didn't know how to install the seat. If she was a grandma she was acting exactly like my mother would in not installing the set. Why didn't I approach the woman myself? I've learned not to approach anyone for just about anything that could make them defensive. If I had not seen the police officer in the lot I probably would have done nothing. If it were a younger woman driving a junker to a cheap grocery, I might have left a note telling which local group gives away car seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renmew Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I completed my experiment. It went from 72 to 73 degrees outside during the 20 minutes. My car temperature read 90 degrees with 5 minutes of the start and didn't increase at all for the next 15 minutes. So, 20 minutes in 70 degree weather does not lead to a 120 degree vehicle. I think it's a terrible thing when children have died when left by accident in cars on hot days. But I don't think agencies should lie to get an important message out. It makes everything they have to say seem far less credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Where's your mellow demeanor when I merely observe that not knowing your child is NOT in danger is NOT a reason for me to call the cops on you? Could it be that the mere mention of someone calling the cops on your parenting is unsettling? I would love to see how you react when it happens to you. Please call child services or the police on me. Seriously. Do it. You yorself stated that since you could not be 100% sure my child was safe it is the same someone calling to report two unattended children in a car so make that call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Oh and am I the only one wondering how if SKL just ran into a small, not busy fed ex for 3 minutes how the polic responded so fast and how no one in the store noticied the arrival of the police officer? Here every fed ex and the ups store have glass fronts. If what she descibed happened everyone in the store would know. I am calling BS on the entire story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I have read the whole thread. I have called DCFS for child abuse before (more than once), and I have called the police many, many times for genuinely unsafe situations (gunfire, fist fights, drinking in the street, drug trafficking, etc.). SKL, you did nothing wrong, legally or morally. I sympathize with your feelings. I don't see cause for a call to the police in this scenario. I can see why a chat with a police officer would be deeply unsettling. Your poor girls wondering if they are "in trouble" and you, as the mom, standing there knowing that the threat of your children being removed from your custody. It's like a loaded gun pointed at your face. Naturally you would be upset. I also think the degree of nitpicking going on in this thread is uncalled for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Please call child services or the police on me. Seriously. Do it. You yorself stated that since you could not be 100% sure my child was safe it is the same someone calling to report two unattended children in a car so make that call. Why would I do that? I would never call on another parent unless I was pretty sure a child was in imminent danger. You're the one who declared unequivocally that you would call the cops if you saw a 7yo alone in a car, regardless of conditions. I'm not sure what kind of background you come from, but I'm glad you are in the minority as far as distrusting your fellow man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Oh and am I the only one wondering how if SKL just ran into a small, not busy fed ex for 3 minutes how the polic responded so fast and how no one in the store noticied the arrival of the police officer? Here every fed ex and the ups store have glass fronts. If what she descibed happened everyone in the store would know. I am calling BS on the entire story. Like I said, I too was surprised at how fast the police were there. But others have said it isn't that surprising. I was in Fed Ex, my car was parked in the parking lot opposite Starbucks (which is next door to FedEx). The police car (only one) drove up quietly with no lights on. There was nobody else in FedEx except me and the clerks, who were busy doing their work. Besides, I was already leaving FedEx as the cop car was driving up to my car. I didn't go back and ask in FedEx if anyone saw what was going on. Why would that matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 How do you know they drove up fast with no lights on if you didn't see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Oh and am I the only one wondering how if SKL just ran into a small, not busy fed ex for 3 minutes how the polic responded so fast and how no one in the store noticied the arrival of the police officer? Here every fed ex and the ups store have glass fronts. If what she descibed happened everyone in the store would know. I am calling BS on the entire story. I believe SKL. And I don't think the 3 minutes are relevant...it could have been 87 seconds OR 7 minutes OR 11 minutes. I still think what she did was fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Total aside but I think many people are commenting based on the weather, daylight, store hours etc for their own area. For example, last week was chilly enough to actually have us debating turning on the furnace at night. We had a few evenings in the weekend before where you could see your breath outside. And while it is not dark at 830pm it is not sunny out either, it is nearly dusk, by 930pm it is dark dark out. If there was a fed ex in my town it would be closed at 6 like everything else, in the city it would likely be open until 9pm like almost everything else. So to me the thought of kids overheating at that time of night when I am already pulling winter coats out of storage is pretty amusing. Anyway, back to the regular scheduled arguements...I said the bulk of my 2 cents last night, just had to add this part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 How do you know they drove up fast with no lights on if you didn't see it? Oh good lord. Stahp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Oh good lord. Stahp! LOL...I had to look that up. badger...it's what for dinner at Lunatic's house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 How do you know they drove up fast with no lights on if you didn't see it? I don't know how fast they were driving. I do know that there could not have been more than 3 minutes from the time the woman placed the call to the time I walked out of the store and saw the police car blocking the front end of my car. Normally the police in my area don't run their lights unless there is a need to get other traffic to give way to the cop car. You don't have to believe me, of course. That's up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galatea Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 How do you know they drove up fast with no lights on if you didn't see it? She said quietly, not fast. Presumably, she would know that because she heard no siren and saw no reflecting lights. I know that makes it harder for you to think she's a bad parent, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaKinVA Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Count me in with the group that is a bit shocked at many of the nit-picky replies... and lack of sympathy. OP, I'm not a single mom. However, that doesn't make me immune to getting pushed over the edge by things just not going right. I think everyone has had at least one day in their life where a seemingly minor incident caused an over-the-top reaction (although, I don't consider venting an over-the-top reaction...it's not like you decked the police officer or started yelling obscenities at the Starbucks woman...). I don't think there is anything out of line with what you did. Nothing illegal, immoral, or out of the ordinary. I would have been peeved, too. I'm also nervous about busy-bodies calling the cops... not because I've done something wrong, but because in someone's opinion I'm not being cautious enough with my children (I have had people tell me I was irresponsible for leaving my kids at home for 3 hours -- oldest is 13, CPR/First Aid trained). I hope your day today has been better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Here is the thing. We are ratting out our neighbors ostensibly for the good of children, right? In the 50s it was all about ratting people out for being communists. For the good of the republic. In totalitarian governments people rat each other out for the good if the regime. Kids rat each other out to make themselves feel like they are better than the rule breaker. It's human nature. The informant feels a giddy sense of power when she alerts the authorities and watches it play out. People are hurt by false calls. Sometimes lives are ruined. Each of us is in considerably more danger of falling down a legal rabbit hole as a result of false alarm than we are of having our children snatched off the streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 You know what I want to know? What backwater red tape library doesn't allow you to either renew library books online, or call and renew them. LOL. I probably could have renewed them but I wasn't sure, as some of them had already been renewed once; and also, if someone has a hold on a book, they won't let you renew it. Since I planned a library trip, I did not attempt to renew them online before that. I also wanted to see if my kid had left any books in the car. (We found the missing books at home later that evening.) I don't keep the library's phone number handy. ETA: I realize this is probably confusing. We had a bunch of library books, and some of them had ended up under some donation bags in a corner. Originally I hoped to find all the books and return them. Whatever we could not find we would try to renew. We ended up returning most of the books and renewing the rest. For those getting high blood pressure from reading about our terrible library book habits, fear not; we now have a designated spot for library books so none will ever get up and walk away between library visits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb_ Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 LOL...I had to look that up. badger...it's what for dinner at Lunatic's house. No smilies on my phone but literally lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Another thread dissolved because of a few certain posters. There are regular, active, accepted posters on this forum who have made up entire personalities, opinions, and back stories and yet we freak out that SKL might be exaggerating her experience? Not to mention, the thread is titled "Rant". Wtf did people think the content would be?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Please call child services or the police on me. Seriously. Do it. You yorself stated that since you could not be 100% sure my child was safe it is the same someone calling to report two unattended children in a car so make that call. Careful what you wish for. You've already said your kid is behind enough that someone would think it educational neglect. This is an open and public forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myeightkiddies Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm not going to comment about the situation as I have nothing unique to add either way; however, I would like to say that I am impressed by the police response time. It is definitely impressive. My first thought was that no one called him and he was just passing by. If someone did call him, I would love to see such quick response time for all calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swellmomma Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm a regular active poster. I sure in heck hope you don't assume I've made my personality up. LOL If I made mine up I would be so much cooler! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Another thread dissolved because of a few certain posters. There are regular, active, accepted posters on this forum who have made up entire personalities, opinions, and back stories and yet we freak out that SKL might be exaggerating her experience? Not to mention, the thread is titled "Rant". Wtf did people think the content would be?? People enjoy drama on the internet. That's all there is to it. Most of these people would not say this stuff to people's faces. They are internet weenies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Careful what you wish for. You've already said your kid is behind enough that someone would think it educational neglect. This is an open and public forum. Will you be making the call then? Btw DS loves parrots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Χά�ων Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 People enjoy drama on the internet. That's all there is to it. Most of these people would not say this stuff to people's faces. They are internet weenies. I would! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm a regular active poster. I sure in heck hope you don't assume I've made my personality up. LOL You can't make up your personality! :lol: (Sorry, my friend, I couldn't resist. You can have a go at me anytime with this guy. :smash: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 People enjoy drama on the internet. That's all there is to it. Most of these people would not say this stuff to people's faces. They are internet weenies. Yes that's what it is. And probably why I get too upset at times, on the Internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upennmama Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Nope. I would call on a 7 year old child being left in a car while the parent left the vicinity which is exactly what SKL did. Would you call on a child whom you saw playing in a front yard with the mom/dad inside the house, within view? Same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaners Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 For those getting high blood pressure from reading about our terrible library book habits, fear not; we now have a designated spot for library books so none will ever get up and walk away between library visits. Yes, but how do you know they'll be safe from someone who might break into your home and steal them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfrumpable. Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 People enjoy drama on the internet. That's all there is to it. Most of these people would not say this stuff to people's faces. They are internet weenies. Pot Kettle Black? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I would! I doubt it. But of course you would say you would online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Yes, but how do you know they'll be safe from someone who might break into your home and steal them? I'm going to ignore this comment. My weak little brain only has so much room for additional fears. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkyandtheBrains. Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 According to kidsandcars.com, only 17 states have such laws. Mine is not one of them. ETA, I clicked on a few of the state laws, and so far 2 of the 3 would not apply at my kids' age, and 1 of the 3 only applies if the vehicle is in some sort of unsafe situation (e.g., it's hot outside). No patience to check all the others. ETAA, I got curious and clicked all of them. Only a couple of states actually prohibit what I did. The others apply only to younger kids, and/or only where there is danger of overheating etc., and/or only if the child is left longer than x minutes (more than the time I left mine). So it seems the law would be on my side almost everywhere, considering there was no actual danger in sitting in the car for a few minutes. Can you share the link? If it was a specific link, I want to look at the various laws I'm curious. I remember looking up laws for what age kids are allowed to be home alone, and I was surprised at the vagueness of some of them. And for the record, I do think it is a p.i.t.a to drag kids in for every tiny errand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Pot Kettle Black? I would discuss a controversial topic in person and even have a disagreement, which is all I have ever done on here. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzybluecheese Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 LOL. I probably could have renewed them but I wasn't sure, as some of them had already been renewed once; and also, if someone has a hold on a book, they won't let you renew it. Since I planned a library trip, I did not attempt to renew them online before that. I also wanted to see if my kid had left any books in the car. (We found the missing books at home later that evening.) I don't keep the library's phone number handy. ETA: I realize this is probably confusing. We had a bunch of library books, and some of them had ended up under some donation bags in a corner. Originally I hoped to find all the books and return them. Whatever we could not find we would try to renew. We ended up returning most of the books and renewing the rest. For those getting high blood pressure from reading about our terrible library book habits, fear not; we now have a designated spot for library books so none will ever get up and walk away between library visits. You've left your library books in the car? Seriously, someone should revoke your library card! :001_smile: Honestly, I could see myself doing the same thing as you say you did, and I would be freaked out if someone called the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-rap Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 To me, it's like those annoying holds you get on credit card purchases when you charge something atypical of past habits. It may be an over-reaction on someone's part, but honestly, it all ended up okay and in the end I'd feel good that other people are watching out for me and mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicAnn Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Can you share the link? If it was a specific link, I want to look at the various laws I'm curious. I remember looking up laws for what age kids are allowed to be home alone, and I was surprised at the vagueness of some of them. And for the record, I do think it is a p.i.t.a to drag kids in for every tiny errand. Kidsandcars.org is the site she mentioned. I'm looking at it now, pretty interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 Can you share the link? If it was a specific link, I want to look at the various laws I'm curious. I remember looking up laws for what age kids are allowed to be home alone, and I was surprised at the vagueness of some of them. And for the record, I do think it is a p.i.t.a to drag kids in for every tiny errand. I googled something like "state laws kids in cars" and it brought up a page on kidsandcars.com. I have since closed the page. Now I tried to get onto kidsandcars.com and see if I can find that particular page, but my internet is not cooperating. It's an interesting site. That's also where you can see that there are more deaths from being run over in parking lots / driveways than being overheated in cars. The site is biased against leaving kids in cars ever, but it isn't obnoxious IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Will you be making the call then? Btw DS loves parrots. No, I have a blistering headache and really not the time to become an internet stalker. But there are those with the time and the inclination who can read this board as it is open and public. People can be mean and twisted. Be careful what kind of challenges you issue, okay? I'm not a big fan of parrots as I had a cockatoo try to take off my right index finger once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzybluecheese Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 http://www.kidsandcars.org/state-laws.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unfrumpable. Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I would discuss a controversial topic in person and even have a disagreement, which is all I have ever done on here. There is a difference. Mmmmm hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Another thread dissolved because of a few certain posters. There are regular, active, accepted posters on this forum who have made up entire personalities, opinions, and back stories and yet we freak out that SKL might be exaggerating her experience? Not to mention, the thread is titled "Rant". Wtf did people think the content would be?? Gah. I should have made a different story then, because much of mine sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Can you share the link? If it was a specific link, I want to look at the various laws I'm curious. I remember looking up laws for what age kids are allowed to be home alone, and I was surprised at the vagueness of some of them. And for the record, I do think it is a p.i.t.a to drag kids in for every tiny errand. If you right click on kidsandcars.org in her post you can open a link. Here it a direct link to the state laws page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I guess that's true, but I don't see how any of it is relevant. I was expressing my surprise that people are more concerned with abduction or car jacking than they were with something much more practical. I'm not saying anyone else is wrong to leave their kids. I'm not saying that I think my kids are more likely to be hit in a parking lot than anywhere else. The statement about never letting them get in a car at all is silly and makes me sound like an alarmist when I'm not. I think there's minimal risk of any of these things happening at all, but the choice I make is to keep my kids with me. Oh, I was just trying to make a point that children are not necessarily safer just because they are with us. After the van accident on the interstate, I was quite worried about high-speed travel. The same thing happened to me after we saw two vehicles collide right in front of us on a 35 mph road. One car flipped completely. I had three times in a three-week period this summer to/fro summer camp where I would have been slammed into on the interstate at 60 mph by motorists not paying attention had I not reacted suddenly. My point was that I'm quite certain slamming into parked cars in a parking lot is far rarer. There is an accident nearly daily on our short freeway. And you're right, abductions from vehicles are probably far rarer than vehicular accidents in a parking lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedicMom Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I don't care how long the kids were in the car. I don't car if the lady was being a busybody or ridiculous calling the cops so fast. I don't care if it was day or night, hot or cold. I don't car if the kids were in the car 3 minutes or 3 hours. All of that is irrelevant. In most states it is against the law to leave children under a certain age unattended in a vehicle, that is the relevant point. So don't do it. According to what I can find and after asking a police officer friend of mine, it is not illegal in my state. In fact, only fourteen states actually have any sort of laws about this. My friend said that they do get calls about it and will counsel a parent on safety, but if it is a short period of time(less than half an hour), reasonable temperatures and the child is older than five or six, they don't do anything and aren't concerned about it. If it is a bar or another similar establishment though they do take action regardless. This is my county sheriff dept though and not representative of my state as a whole. I asked him because I do leave my three and one year old alone in the car while I run back in the house to grab something or into the gas station to pay. He said that wouldn't be anything LE would be concerned about. Again, this is my county and not representative of my state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 If I made mine up I would be so much cooler! I'd like to be thin, smart and have more kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'd like to be thin, smart and have more kids. Be careful what you wish for! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrothead Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Be careful what you wish for! ;) If an internet stalker could make me thin and smart I'll allow the stalking with open arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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