Ok. I’ll start the post about the big angry outburst

[gardenmom5]

Didn't watch the game, not a taylor fan, not a football fan . . 
saw an article on the outburst, saw the picture of him screaming at his coach - didn't read anything other than the caption.

I consider it a flag for anyone in a relationship, but I've also noticed a HUGE anger problem in the wider culture at large.  I consider that a bigger problem.

[Pawz4me]

19 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I've also noticed a HUGE anger problem in the wider culture at large.  I consider that a bigger problem.

Truth. It seems that a lot of people have somehow been convinced that being angry and riled up or afraid all the time is a good or necessary thing. Making someone angry or afraid is the oldest control game in the world. Incite those emotions and you can control people. We need to do a lot of public education on that.

As far as the Kelce incident, I haven't watched it and don't know much about him or the coach. I suspect it's a big nothing burger. These are hypercompetitive men competing in the most important game of their season. For some of them it will be the most important and memorable game of their lives. It would almost be weirder if emotions hadn't flared at some point. I come from a family with more than one professional athlete. Behaviors that happen in the middle of a game or event are usually not particularly indicative of that person's behavior overall. I doubt Swift has anything to worry about, and from the little I know she strikes me as a woman who probably knows how to kick him to the curb if he gets out of line. It ain't exactly like she's dependent on him in any way.

[rebcoola]

This is typical behavior for some teams/cultures in pretty much every contact sport.  It is comoon for a tween to get yelled at by grown men while reffing a game for 5 year olds. It is not the only culture in sports and their are many teams where respect and acting right are very important and behavior like that would have you traded in a hot second.  My favorite team moved on immediately from a player that was involved from an altercation and that is the way it should be.

[katilac]

5 hours ago, TravelingChris said:

Add to that Swift"s very poor record of relationships and then his twmper, fot whatever reason, and if I was a gambler and my state allowed gambling,  Ivwould bet on break-up sooner or later.

 

I mean, most relationships break up sooner or later. 

And I agree with those who are saying she doesn't necessarily have a "very poor record" of relationships. She's 34. She dated one guy for about 7 years and has about a dozen known relationships. There's nothing wrong with that, and nothing unusual about dating someone for a few months and deciding not to date them further. 

If you don't meet the right guy, do you just have to stay with guy #5 or guy #6 out of default? 

 

5 hours ago, SKL said:

 I think the spotlight on TS and TK has tainted TK's focus on what a pro football player is supposed to focus on.

Oh, for sure, it's Taylor's fault 😂

3 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

And….he’s the coach. He’s the team leader. 

Which is exactly one of @bolt.'s big points: 

"There are a number of "one way" rules about treatment that is okay from greater towards lesser, but not okay from lesser towards greater.

Clearly, one of these one-way rules is, and has been since very young childhood, that the lesser can not 'yell back' at the greater, even though the greater can do plenty of yelling. The *more* yelly the greater one is, the more quiet, composed, and cowwed the lesser one is required to be."

2 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

This is just not so in my experience with youth and high school football. 
Yelling to be heard, absolutely. Forceful, blunt language and tone absolutely. Abusive, violent screaming and cursing, no. Hitting or otherwise physically assaulting with a student, never. 

Not saying it doesn't happen, just that it is not a universal thing. Beware painting with too broad a brushstroke or too black and white in your generalizations. 

Well, they're not doing it when mom is watching, y'know? I think that yelling with forceful, blunt language and tone and abusive screaming sound very similar. 

Is it universal? Well, nothing's universal. Is it near-universal in quad A high school teams with a chance of winning the championship? I really do think it is. 

Abuse to players is widespread at the college and professional levels. 

Edited February 12 by katilac

[Clarita]

I watched the game I watched the outburst in real time. This is at the moment I have no idea what was said and given that here are my thoughts.

Is Kelce wrong for yelling/raging at his coach? Maybe. If it's for not putting him out on the field where he thought he would have made a better play type stuff then, nope he shouldn't have done that. If it was about his coach yelling an inappropriate obscenity toward one of his teammates then I absolutely hope that my own son would have the galls to call out an authority figure for being disrespectful. Of course in the above linked article it seems like it was a wrongful outburst that happened in a stressful moment and both men apologized and made amends. Which is also OK because I don't expect people to be perfect 100% of the time and what I expect appropriate behavior is, is to apologize when we've done wrong. My indiscretions just don't get aired on national TV.

I absolutely do not and will not tell my son to never yell at any authority figure because I can see things happening where I want my son and daughter to be the people who will stand up for what is right. I want my children to yell and fight back if they see others or themselves being harassed and treated poorly. There are some egregious things coaches have said and done to players, run of the mill physical abuse, requesting players to play while hurt, shouting inappropriate things to players, drugs etc.

It would definitely take more than one random incident (where I have zero knowledge of the words said) for me to say he is an awful human being who is certain to beat his girlfriend/wife/dog/mom/grocer.     

[Lecka]

I am totally fine with disliking or disapproving, and choosing not to support it.

I don’t think it’s fair to say it means someone is going to abuse their partner.  That’s literally as much support as I get it.  
 

If other people act that way, do you have to act that way, too?  If somebody else is going “boss, give me the chance, please, I want it really bad,” then do you not do it?  To some extent, I think it be answer is yes.  But it’s also a physical thing people are doing.  They are already touching people and talking loudly to communicate.  That’s already *part of what they are doing.*
 

But really where was there a physical threat to the coach.  The coach did not appear to feel physically threatened nor did he give in to the player.  I think it’s just misreading it to think it’s a threat or meant as a threat or was perceived as a threat.  
 

I do not know if it’s possible to identify an abuser by how a competitive athlete acts on the field.  I think there ARE things that are warning signs.  I just don’t think this one is.  
 

However, if someone has information that this kind of behavior IS a red flag for abuse, I would take that to heart.  
 

 

Edited February 12 by Lecka

[Heartstrings]

3 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

 

Yes, yes.  Some times, some men, some coaches. Some parents. Some.  I did not add the word some enough, definitely should have added it some more.   🤣
#notallmen

Edited February 12 by Heartstrings

[Indigo Blue]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

It would definitely take more than one random incident (where I have zero knowledge of the words said) for me to say he is an awful human being who is certain to beat his girlfriend/wife/dog/mom/grocer.     

I see your points, but I believe there is a difference between saying someone is certain to be a wife beater and saying that person’s behavior should raise a red flag.

[TravelingChris]

8 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

Isn't this rather inappropriate?  I mean, when you talk about someone whose relationships tend to last over a year, while managing a career that keeps her moving around, this smacks of misogyny.  What exactly do you mean by "poor record"?  Has she gone off and got married after knowing a person for a week?  Slept with several guys at once?  Been in a pattern of abusive relationships?  Or are you talking about the fact that sometimes people just find out their lives aren't compatible and break it off?

Like, you see how weird that statement is, right?  And how you didn't exactly bring up his relationship record but make her out to seem like a flighty wh0re.

 

I don't even care much about her relationships but its really offputting to see such a cruddy view in 2024.

No, I d9o not think she is slutty. I don’t like her music but what I was talk8ng about was that others say that do many if her sings are about break-ups and have heard that those songs are based on her experiences.

I never heard of Travis Kelce or his brother until this year. I watch college football, not NFL for a number of years.  This year, I did watch the 2 plsy off games too.  

So, no, poor relationships do not have to equal 'flighty whore' and certainly didn’t in my mind.

As to her having a six year relationship, I don’t much aattention to celebrities.  I may pay a bit more if I know they have an autoimmune disease like I have.   But otherwise, it is mostly headlines I aee or some radio or tv or computer I walk by or is in a waiting room where I may hear a bit if celeb news.  It just isn’t something zi follow.

[Heartstrings]

36 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

No, I d9o not think she is slutty. I don’t like her music but what I was talk8ng about was that others say that do many if her sings are about break-ups and have heard that those songs are based on her experiences.

She also has a bunch about falling in love, and being in love but now I feel like we’ve just described all of the popular music industry. 

[Katy]

14 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

She also has a bunch about falling in love, and being in love but now I feel like we’ve just described all of the popular music industry. 

And a bunch about her friends’ relationships. She writes at least one song every day. 

[Ausmumof3]

I can’t comment on American football as I know nothing. However, the AUSSIE RULES football grand final is one of the worst days in the calendar for calls for domestic violence. 

I don’t believe normalising rage and over the top emotional reactions to sports events is helpful or good. My DH is pretty non-violent and yet his reaction the day his team lost actually made me feel momentarily afraid. It was really disappointing. 

Tennis is a sport I love and has similar issues. I don’t believe normalising racket smashing and umpire abuse etc is good and the players I respect don’t do that. It also has a couple of pretty well-known players up on DV charges.

[Heartstrings]

A funny/sad way to waste some time today is to watch videos of men destroying *their own televisions* last night.  These fall into 2 separate categories.  The first one is destroying the TV because TS is briefly on screen and the other because the 49ers lost.  Apparently the OT rules were changed in 2022 and the losing team and fans felt ways about that.  Ways that led to destruction of televisions.  
 

SOME men in this country are not doing well psychologically.  

[Heartstrings]

25 minutes ago, Katy said:

And a bunch about her friends’ relationships. She writes at least one song every day. 

I figure a good song writer can turn one break up into dozens of songs if they want to.  There’s no one sad song per break up rule.  

[Clarita]

9 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I kind of feel like someone should write a song about that common phenomenon…oh wait!  🤣

Let's just be clear the first verse says:

I would be complex
I would be cool
They'd say I played the field before I found someone to commit to
And that would be ok
For me to do
Every conquest I had made would make me more of a boss to you

 

I'd be a fearless leader
I'd be an alpha type
When everyone believes ya
What's that like?

 

1 hour ago, TravelingChris said:

As to her having a six year relationship, I don’t much aattention to celebrities.  I may pay a bit more if I know they have an autoimmune disease like I have.   But otherwise, it is mostly headlines I aee or some radio or tv or computer I walk by or is in a waiting room where I may hear a bit if celeb news.  It just isn’t something zi follow.

I guess you did miss the conversations where she has addressed how inappropriate it is that she is a successful business woman, song writer and artist, but all everyone focuses on are her break-ups and relationships. Considering break-ups are a very popular theme to write songs about and male artists also write about them and people don't bat an eye about who they are and judge their decision making skills over it. That's what makes your statement misogynistic.

[Heartstrings]

8 minutes ago, Clarita said:

Let's just be clear the first verse says:

I would be complex
I would be cool
They'd say I played the field before I found someone to commit to
And that would be ok
For me to do
Every conquest I had made would make me more of a boss to you

 

I'd be a fearless leader
I'd be an alpha type
When everyone believes ya
What's that like?

 

I guess you did miss the conversations where she has addressed how inappropriate it is that she is a successful business woman, song writer and artist, but all everyone focuses on are her break-ups and relationships. Considering break-ups are a very popular theme to write songs about and male artists also write about them and people don't bat an eye about who they are and judge their decision making skills over it. That's what makes your statement misogynistic.

The only TS boyfriend I’m aware of is Joe Jonas, so I looked him up.  He has also had several girlfriends and a whole marriage that is shorter than TS’s one 6 year relationship,  yet doesn’t have the same “reputation”.  This despite ALSO writing songs about his love life.  Funny how that works.
 

“Though Jonas tends not to speak often about the details of his romantic life, he does incorporate elements of his relationships into his song lyrics.”

 

https://people.com/joe-jonas-dating-history-7966830

 

[SKL]

2 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

A funny/sad way to waste some time today is to watch videos of men destroying *their own televisions* last night.  These fall into 2 separate categories.  The first one is destroying the TV because TS is briefly on screen and the other because the 49ers lost.  Apparently the OT rules were changed in 2022 and the losing team and fans felt ways about that.  Ways that led to destruction of televisions.  
 

SOME men in this country are not doing well psychologically.  

50+ years ago, my dad was a TV repairman, and he told me that the busiest time of the year (in his business) was football season - especially as they got into the playoffs.  (FTR my family never rage broke a TV ....)

I don't think anger management has gotten worse.  I think it's gotten better, but there's much more public awareness when people do lose it.

On a somewhat related note, though, very physical sports (including football) are generally a great outlet for young people who have a lot of emotions to channel.  (Playing them, not watching them.  :P)

[SKL]

I will say that this thread is the first time I heard that some people consider TS slutty or whatever.

I don't have any feelings about her personality.  I think she's talented, but she's just one in a huge field of talented people.  And I think it's really annoying when you can't find one single dang sports article that isn't about her in the loge.  She dominates her field as it is.  Bring back football.  😛

[ScoutTN]

16 minutes ago, SKL said:

On a somewhat related note, though, very physical sports (including football) are generally a great outlet for young people who have a lot of emotions to channel.  (Playing them, not watching them.  :P)

Yes! I have one of those kids. Contact sports meet needs for him that nothing else does. An intense workout is not enough, not the same. He is better regulated during those sports seasons, without any doubt. We are happy to have those sports available to us and to have coaches who treat the boys well while still challenging them and demanding a lot from them. Ds has grown tremendously in so many ways through his sports. Self-knowledge is not the least of those ways. 
 

 

Edited February 13 by ScoutTN
Fixing the incorrect autocorrect!

[KSera]

34 minutes ago, SKL said:

On a somewhat related note, though, very physical sports (including football) are generally a great outlet for young people who have a lot of emotions to channel.

 

29 minutes ago, ScoutTN said:

Contact sports meet needs for him that nothing else does.

Are there any contact sports that don’t carry the significant risk of chronic traumatic encephalopathy? Wrestling maybe? I’m not super familiar with wrestling, but perhaps they get brought down to the mat hard enough that it does the same thing. I’m having trouble thinking of a contact sport that wouldn’t involve a lot of hits to the brain. Certainly there are lots of other very physical (but non contact) sports that don’t typically involve that. 

[Tap]

Wow. I guess I am in the minority here, but when I watched the video of the blowup, I was left wondering....really? That was what the hoopla is all about.

 

Throw tomatoes all you want at me, but really, that was only a bid deal because it was televised. I am sure that is nothing but a minor blip to the coach. Seriously, he coaches professional male football athletes for a career!! This is very, very minor in the scheme of blowups that have come his way.  Seriously, my autistic daughter has way more significant blow ups on a regular basis than that! Her teachers deal with more than this on a daily basis at her therapeutic day school. DD is 5 inches taller and 3x my weight at, 6ft 410lbs, so if you think I am downplaying bases on size, I am not. 

[Tap]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Yes! I have one of those kids. Contact sports meet needs for him that nothing else does. An intense workout is not enough, not the same. He is better regulated during those sports seasons, without any doubt. We are happy to have those sports available to us and to have coaches who treat the boys well while still challenging them and demanding a lot from them. Ds has grown tremendously in so many ways through his sports. Self-knowledge is not the least of those ways. 
 

 

This same kid, who you are having to wrangle in......would have been a phenomenal warrior 200 years ago! It is so interesting to me, how we forget that our world was inhabited for centuries by humans that hunted and gathered, fought animals with hand held weapons.  Taking down game in close proximity and developed skills to fight in hand to hand combat. But only a few centuries later, we expect all of these awesome traits, to have faded away to intellectual evolution. For kids all sitting in neat rows in classrooms, delving into intellectual pursuits. Nope, not buying it!! There is a huge number of people in our world who are natural fighters and that determination, aggression and drive needs to go somewhere! Organized sports is where they find that niches of people like them, and can safely express some of those traits. 

[KungFuPanda]

10 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

A funny/sad way to waste some time today is to watch videos of men destroying *their own televisions* last night.  These fall into 2 separate categories.  The first one is destroying the TV because TS is briefly on screen and the other because the 49ers lost.  Apparently the OT rules were changed in 2022 and the losing team and fans felt ways about that.  Ways that led to destruction of televisions.  
 

SOME men in this country are not doing well psychologically.  

Have you seen the short where a woman mocked this trend? She was giving a ‘tearful’ speech about how upsetting it was when cameras panned to TK for a few minutes while she was watching the Eras tour.  She said it ruined music for the real fans and went on about disrespect 🤣

[Carrie12345]

8 hours ago, SKL said:

50+ years ago, my dad was a TV repairman, and he told me that the busiest time of the year (in his business) was football season - especially as they got into the playoffs.  (FTR my family never rage broke a TV ....)

I don't think anger management has gotten worse.  I think it's gotten better, but there's much more public awareness when people do lose it.

On a somewhat related note, though, very physical sports (including football) are generally a great outlet for young people who have a lot of emotions to channel.  (Playing them, not watching them.  :P)

I don’t know whether I believe it’s gotten better or if I think it’s been driven more underground. I do know I no longer see teenage boys walking around with scabbed up knuckles, proud of punching walls like I did in the 90s.

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Tap said:

Wow. I guess I am in the minority here, but when I watched the video of the blowup, I was left wondering....really? That was what the hoopla is all about.

 

Throw tomatoes all you want at me, but really, that was only a bid deal because it was televised. I am sure that is nothing but a minor blip to the coach. Seriously, he coaches professional male football athletes for a career!! This is very, very minor in the scheme of blowups that have come his way.  Seriously, my autistic daughter has way more significant blow ups on a regular basis than that! Her teachers deal with more than this on a daily basis at her therapeutic day school. DD is 5 inches taller and 3x my weight at, 6ft 410lbs, so if you think I am downplaying bases on size, I am not. 

I have watched it several times and I agree.  The Coach wobbled because he lost his balance.  The Coach never showed one ounce of fear or of being intimidated. I do believe I saw the other players on the sidelines walk toward TK and the Coach when the Coach stumbled but I am not clear if that was because TK was yelling or because the Coach stumbled.  
 

Also TK did not appear to in anyway shove him down .  I think he even reached out to steady the Coach too.  
 

Football is an aggressive and violent sport.  And all sports are built on over the top competition which is problematic to me but that is another discussion.

[ktgrok]

I think it was over the line and bad sportsmanship for him to get in his coach's face because he was mad about being taken out of a play. Poor sportsmanship. AND Any Reid is the reason they won and were in that game in the first place - he knows what he is doing! 

I don't think it means he's an abuser, but it does show a lack of self discipline and the best players have self discipline. And it was ego centric which again - bad sportsmanship. it's a TEAM sport. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:38 AM, scholastica said:

Just because it’s the culture of a particular sport or all sports doesn’t make it okay. I think we can all agree that cultures do sometimes need to change. Learning to emotionally regulate and communicate in healthy ways is not an outrageous ask of grown men. 
Over and over again last night the announcers talked about how cool under pressure Brock Purdy is/was. So, apparently, you can still play at a high level and not be unhinged.

Brock Purdy is a quarterback.  His role is to be cool under pressure and to avoid contact as much as possible.  His whole front line is aggressively using force to protect him from the opponents aggressive use of force on him so that he can do his job.  (BTW, I have seen plenty of QBs who are cool under pressure on the field who were absolute a$$holes off the field.)  

Travis Kelce is a tight end.  His job is to block and to receive.  Blocking requires lots of aggressive use of force to prevent the opponent from getting to the person with the ball.  Receiving means being on the business end of lots of force.  His job is to be fired up.  

I used to love the adrenaline rush of watching football.  But knowing what I know about the lifelong impacts on the brains and bodies kind of dampened it for me.  

I've never been a fan of aggressive/demeaning coaching styles.  But there are people for whom this rolls off them like water off a duck's back.  The insults and aggressing are "noise."  My dad and my 2 of my brothers and one sister seem to thrive in that environment. My other brother and I wilt in that environment.  Growing up, we had a family culture where insults were "teasing" and "terms of endearment."  With my children, I didn't encourage sports/activities with that kind of culture.  Interestingly, 2 of my kids chose to study Karate which can have a harsh corrective style, which was hard for me to watch.  

Oh, and I meant to add that this isn't reserved for football.  Bobby Knight throwing a chair at a player is forever imbedded into my brain.  

Edited February 14 by dirty ethel rackham

[SanDiegoMom]

24 minutes ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

 

I've never been a fan of aggressive/demeaning coaching styles.  But there are people for whom this rolls off them like water off a duck's back.  The insults and aggressing are "noise."  My dad and my 2 of my brothers and one sister seem to thrive in that environment. My other brother and I wilt in that environment.  Growing up, we had a family culture where insults were "teasing" and "terms of endearment."  With my children, I didn't encourage sports/activities with that kind of culture.  Interestingly, 2 of my kids chose to study Karate which can have a harsh corrective style, which was hard for me to watch.  

 

Applying it more broadly to more than just sports -- out of myself, my husband, and three kids, three of us are absolute wimps with ANY thing that resembles high emotion, high stress, or conflict.  Spirited debate that is too emotional? We often completely shut down.  My husband and daughter thrive on it -- their brains click on and they really get into it without feeling it is at all personal.  

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, dirty ethel rackham said:

 

I used to love the adrenaline rush of watching football.  But knowing what I know about the lifelong impacts on the brains and bodies kind of dampened it for me.  

Oh, and I meant to add that this isn't reserved for football.  Bobby Knight throwing a chair at a player is forever imbedded into my brain.

Same here. Actually I gradually stopped watching when ds was little because I just didn't have time to spend on weekends watching football. Dh doesn't watch sports - I was the football fan in our marriage. Eventually it had been so long since I watched a game that I lost interest. After the information came out about CTE plus other brain and body impacts I was glad I no longer watched.

I remember Bobby Knight throwing the chair but I'm also old enough that Woody Hayes punching a Clemson player is also imbedded in my brain. Like many people I barely remember anything about that bowl game. Just the punch that ended a coaching legend's career.

Edited February 14 by Lady Florida.

[dirty ethel rackham]

3 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

 

I remember Bobby Knight throwing the chair but I'm also old enough that Woody Hayes punching a Clemson player is also imbedded in my brain. Like many people I barely remember anything about that bowl game. Just the punch that ended a coaching legend's career.

Oh, I remember that, too.  My dad had huge respect for Woody Hayes until that incident.  I thought my dad was going to cry when he saw that.  

[Carrie12345]

7 hours ago, SanDiegoMom said:

Applying it more broadly to more than just sports -- out of myself, my husband, and three kids, three of us are absolute wimps with ANY thing that resembles high emotion, high stress, or conflict.  Spirited debate that is too emotional? We often completely shut down.  My husband and daughter thrive on it -- their brains click on and they really get into it without feeling it is at all personal.  

I can definitely thrive on it, too. The kids think it’s weird that dh and I will be on the very same page with a passionate topic and yelling all about it at each other.  
The flip side is that, in circumstances where I’m expected or required to express big emotions with calm words, I cry.

[Clarita]

39 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I can definitely thrive on it, too. The kids think it’s weird that dh and I will be on the very same page with a passionate topic and yelling all about it at each other.

If I feel like I'm in a safe space then I wear my emotions on the outside. There is no need to guess how I feel about a topic. People who tend to be my best friends are also the same way. It takes more work to be friends (for me) to be with someone who is just "calm" all the time even when internally they are upset. DH is actually "calm" all the time type person and it caused some strife early in our marriage. 

[Corraleno]

Woody Hayes constantly screamed at and punched his own players, and there's video of him punching two different photographers on the sidelines, and throwing his headset at the ankles of an opposing player who had just intercepted the ball, in an effort to trip him. But nobody cared as long as he was winning.

The idea that it's perfectly fine for a player to get in a coach's face and scream at him, or even shove him, because coaches routinely scream at and hit players, so violence is just a normal "part of the culture" seems pretty twisted to me. I also take issue with the claim that it's to be expected that men who are really competitive and fired up in a sport that involves a lot of aggression will inevitably have trouble controlling their emotions.

In a recent very high-stakes international championship, a US fencer, who was angry about losing a close match, refused to shake hands with the opponent and then kicked a banner, tearing it. He was immediately black carded and the US team was eliminated from the competition. So instead of fencing for the bronze medal, and gaining points towards qualifying for the 2024 Olympics, they finished dead last, got no points, and lost any shot at Olympic qualification. And the guy who did it also got a 90 day suspension that prevented him from going to the World Championship, both as an individual and a member of the US team. I've seen fencers eliminated from high-stakes national and international competitions for throwing equipment, kicking a water bottle, and cursing at a ref. Even in a sport where the goal is to stab your opponent as many times as possible in a short period of time (and those hits freaking hurt, and leave bruises), and elite athletes are just as intense and aggressive on the strip as athletes in any other sport, no one excuses asshole behavior on the grounds that men who are really competitive and fired up just can't help themselves. 

IMO, the fact that police calls for domestic violence spike after football games indicates that there's nothing normal or healthy about a "sports culture" that accepts the idea that men who are fired up and competitive just can't help screaming at and hitting people.

[goldberry]

I'm in the camp that it's being a little overblown. I think this probably happens a lot more often in football and it's just not plastered all over the TV. The dynamic between the coach and Kelce during and after the interaction show that there was no real threat there.  I consider it poor sportsmanship, but not a giant red flag unless it was accompanied by other issues.

Does anyone remember when Serena Williams got really angry and yelled, and it was the biggest scandal. 🙄 Talk about double standards.

Edited February 15 by goldberry

[historically accurate]

Ran to the health dept this morning for more covid tests, and my DD was in the car with me. She put on a country music station, and Rodney Atkins' song, These are my People, came on. Never really paid attention to it too much before. 

This verse struck me after having caught up on this thread this morning (bolding mine). 

[quote]Well, we take it all week on the chin with a grin till we make it to Friday night
And it's church league softball, holler 'bout a bad call, preacher breaking up the fight
Then later on at the Green Light tavern, well, everybody's gatherin' as friends
And the beer's a pourin' till Monday mornin', and we start it all over again[/quote]

And then looking it up when we came home, and reading Wiki, Rodney Atkins' has been accused of DV in the past (nothing since that one incident though). 

Oh, ugh, he's also the "Cleaning my Gun" daddy-daughter song guy. I hate that song.

[Pawz4me]

1 hour ago, historically accurate said:

And it's church league softball, holler 'bout a bad call, preacher breaking up the fight

Oh goodness did that bring back a memory! It was around the late 1980's and I was in my mid/late 20's and lost my brain for a minute and decided to join our church's women's softball team. Or maybe I was trying out for it. I was never quite clear on what the status was. But it didn't matter, 'cause I suffered through exactly one practice and was thoroughly done and over it. In fact I think I was maybe a little traumatized by the experience. Intense is totally inadequate to describe the attitude and approach to church league softball those ladies had. Way, way more competitive than I've ever wanted to be. Silly me thought it was going to be for funsies and fellowship.

[Scarlett]

I did not know anything about TK until I saw a clip where he was talking to his brother about trying to get his number to TS. I had not watched football for years that point, so I knew nothing. 
From the boards here I learned from @Catwoman that he usually prefers busty black women so therefore he was probably not that into TS because she isn’t his type. I haven’t actually confirmed if that is true or not but I don’t think he has to be limited to dating black women because he once did. 
 

I always hope everyone will be happy, celebrity or not.  
 

I rarely like a certain musician. I am all over the map and gravitate toward good lyrics…. I am 58 so certainly when TS first hit the music scene she was young and I found her music ok but well young. Young girls my sons age liked her, that is about all I knew. Then I heard BetterMan by Little Big town and fell in love with that song. It was later I realized TS had written it and I was like hmmmm. So started paying attention to her songs. Eventually so many resonated with me I downloaded all her albums and listened to them all. Just the progression of her songwriting talent is amazing to me. 
 

That led me to paying attention to her as a person and well I think she is a nice human. 
 

All that to say I hope she is happy with TK. I don’t see the big red flags some here do.  They seem very in love and happy and well I think it is nice to see happiness for a change . 

[maize]

On 2/12/2024 at 9:02 PM, KSera said:

 

Are there any contact sports that don’t carry the significant risk of chronic traumatic encephalopathy? Wrestling maybe? I’m not super familiar with wrestling, but perhaps they get brought down to the mat hard enough that it does the same thing. I’m having trouble thinking of a contact sport that wouldn’t involve a lot of hits to the brain. Certainly there are lots of other very physical (but non contact) sports that don’t typically involve that. 

Wrestling actually has some of the highest concussion rates per athlete in sports--higher than football (football has the highest per team rate; teams are big and some positions are at more risk of concussion than others).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5384815/#:~:text=Athlete-Based Concussion Risk,men's wrestling (Table 3).

Edited February 15 by maize

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, maize said:

Wrestling actually has some of the highest concussion rates per athlete in sports--higher than football (football has the highest per team rate; teams are big and some positions are at more risk of concussion than others).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5384815/#:~:text=Athlete-Based Concussion Risk,men's wrestling (Table 3).

I didn’t know that! Wrestling is not a sport I’ve ever really paid any attention to, so I wasn’t sure how hard people hit the mat. So perhaps the answer is that there truly is no contact sport that doesn’t pose a high brain risk (since even sports with lower concussion rates but frequent lower impact head hits cause brain degeneration).

[maize]

4 hours ago, KSera said:

I didn’t know that! Wrestling is not a sport I’ve ever really paid any attention to, so I wasn’t sure how hard people hit the mat. So perhaps the answer is that there truly is no contact sport that doesn’t pose a high brain risk (since even sports with lower concussion rates but frequent lower impact head hits cause brain degeneration).

It does seem like emphasizing low and no-contact sports is preferable. What we don't want to do is substitute more sedentary activities for sports! 

My oldest daughter loved martial arts but we steered away from sparring competitively; she stuck to competing in the various forms categories, which were plenty intense. Even so, between martial arts and Irish dance she acquired more injuries with lasting impact over the years than my less athletically-oriented kids have; I still consider her involvement a net win but I would love to see more emphasis in all sports on safety and health. 

[livetoread]

Concussions are bad, but it's also the repetitive hits of football that seem to be an issue. Football is unique in that some players' brains are being jostled hard every single play, and that adds up. Finding ways to reduce concussions is great, but there is no way to reduce that brain jostling in football without changing the sport completely.

[Meriwether]

Sparring is generally okay. The kids take some headshots but not many. Not like a football game. The kids had more friends on the basketball team lose playing time from concussions than from TKD. I don't think anyone from our school has had a concussion concern. If Ds17 goes to say 15 tournaments this year and faces an average of 4 fighters per tournament, that is 120 minutes or less of competitive sparring. Probably 90 minutes or less. He probably won't get kicked in the head a dozen times. And with point sparring, most players exercise control. He is in more danger of injury from falling, which he does spectacularly.

[KungFuPanda]

On 2/14/2024 at 12:15 PM, SanDiegoMom said:

Applying it more broadly to more than just sports -- out of myself, my husband, and three kids, three of us are absolute wimps with ANY thing that resembles high emotion, high stress, or conflict.  Spirited debate that is too emotional? We often completely shut down.  My husband and daughter thrive on it -- their brains click on and they really get into it without feeling it is at all personal.  

My family of origin is teeming with adrenaline junkies. Blessedly, neither of my children got that gene. 

[Janeway]

I did not see the outburst, but I think if anyone finds it acceptable, it is only because they are dazzled by the fame. It is not acceptable. It is disgusting. 

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Janeway said:

I did not see the outburst, but I think if anyone finds it acceptable, it is only because they are dazzled by the fame. It is not acceptable. It is disgusting. 

I don’t think anyone has said it is acceptable.