I need help because I'm terrible at communicating but this can't continue and please, this is a JAWM type post

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

They need time for self-care. That I need to watch the kids 5-6 hours one weekend day every week and I need to watch them 1 evening during the week.

Wow, have they not figured out that's what Care.com is for??

1 hour ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Her family will be moving here in a couple of months and I worry that once they do, that I'll never get the kids again.

Maybe it will lower her stress (which sounds high given how toxic and insane she's being) and she'll have some room to treat you decently? Is there anything besides getting the kids that you can do? My mother can't handle my ds, so she has never ever had him over for a thing like that, not a night, not a day, nothing. We arrange events and things they can do together or I have her over here, where things are safe(ish/r) and controlled and she interacts with him in his environment. So she gets time with him but doesn't take him anywhere. I also now invite her on cruises. We've done Disney (the parks) together but that's harder. Cruising together has actually been pretty good. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by PeterPan

[Carrie12345]

Just to be fair, some grandparents demand even more time than parents want, and those are boundaries that need to be accepted, too. 

There is no universal amount of time a grandparent “should” take care of kids. Just what works for the people involved.

[MooCow]

On 8/24/2021 at 3:57 PM, Carrie12345 said:

 

TMI

Edited September 1, 2021 by MooCow

[MooCow]

On 8/24/2021 at 4:01 PM, RootAnn said:

 

Tmi

Edited September 1, 2021 by MooCow

[Melissa in Australia]

Boy oh boy.
My mother lives only 17 km away. She works full time. She has looked after my children when I was in hospital having a baby, or when we were picking up the twins, or when dh and I went to oldest University graduation. Otherwise my children my responsibility.

[theelfqueen]

If you WANT to help- you could offer to pay a babysitter once a month or something? 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by theelfqueen

[Not_a_Number]

This is ridiculous. I've seen this play out within my own family and it's just ridiculous to ask people to do more babysitting than they are able to do. 

If they want more help, they can pay for a babysitter. And you should get in the habit of saying "no." It's a powerful sentiment all by itself. And don't let them wear you down. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Not_a_Number

[Selkie]

OP, is this the same DIL who kept getting dogs and then getting rid of them right away? If so, I already didn’t like her - and now I REALLY don’t like her! (Sorry if I have you mixed up with someone else.)

[Lecka]

For the situation in my family, I feel like the parents never really dealt with or handled a lot of little kid parenting, that I am now seeing for myself sets up for teen parenting.

A lot of my teen parenting seems like it’s back to the same little kid stuff where I’m not giving in and holding firm on things, or I am being “the bad guy.”  
 

One of the kids has grown up to be a wonderful young woman.  The other is a teen who could stand to be told “no” and could stand to not have parents throw up their hands (and give in) when she pouts.  There is a lot of good with her, too, it is not like it is all bad.

But this is my opinion!  It is very biased.

I think maybe (maybe?????) one of the people with my situation stepped in to do more with seeing there were not limits?  
 

There were not the same physical health issues involved, but there was exhaustion involved.  
 

I also helped with babysitting because I knew how overburdened the older relatives were.  And I would find out later the parent had been home watching tv??????

 

And nobody ever knew what her husband was doing — apparently no housework or help with the kids.  
 

There are extenuating circumstances on the mom’s side but they are the kind of thing where she could have made other arrangements and someone could have told her no.

Of course at the time I didn’t think it was my place to say anything, sigh.

The mom always adored kids, so, so much, and she was a wonderful babysitter.  I used to say — she wants to be the fun babysitter more than she wants to be the parent.  (Edit:  she is a very loving and giving mother!)
 

Bottom line — I think the parents need to make other arrangements.  
 

And if they are snooty about it, I wouldn’t count on them not being fickle regardless of the amount of babysitting done.  
 

If there is some health issue or even just — there is really a need (or “need”) for babysitting — if you guys can afford a cash gift, I would consider that.  Maybe it’s not the best thing to get into, but maybe it would go a long way.  I don’t know.  

Edited August 24, 2021 by Lecka

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Is driving as hard on you as babysitting?

Because if not, I'd be inclined to offer to care for the kids at their house 1-2 nights per week, during a time period that includes bedtime so you can rest while the kids are sleeping.  

I think that once the DIL's family moves to the area you will be shut out if you don't participate a little more now.  I'm sorry about that--it's rotten--but I have seen it too often.  The assumption mix just tilts.  So I agree with others who suggested establishing a Sunday dinner tradition if possible, if you can't manage the care at their house for limited periods.

I think DIL seems to have an excessive idea of what me time and self-care is. I think they are being mean.

I do think that if you want to see them once the in-laws move, you do have to come up with something creative, and I like the idea of you driving there sometimes if it would make it easier for you. 

1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

She does have a point that it isn't really worth it to do a bunch of driving for only a few hours of a break 

She could definitely bring this up differently, but she might also figure out a way to make the most of the time. When my older one was in half-day preschool that was 25 minutes away, I ran errands near the preschool rather than driving back and forth. It worked out very well--they had Target, Kroger, etc. all nearby, and who cared if it wasn't my local store. If I hadn't had a baby with me, I probably would've found the nearest library! She really could be flexible.

58 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I don’t think grandparents who regularly do this kind of thing generally consider it babysitting. It’s just spending time and having fun with their grandkids, IOW, not a chore. This couple sounds OTT nervy but I don’t think ‘well I suffered through it, they should too!’ Is a healthy approach either and certainly won’t help OP have the kind of relationship with her grands that she’s after. Being present (in however a limited a capacity) is needed for that.

I agree. I didn't have nearby family, and it was hard. They would've spent lots of time with my kids if they were local.

OP, if it would HELP YOU, maybe you can hire someone to help you spend time with your grandkids--as in, have the babysitter be there while you're there as an aide to you. They can do the physical stuff, and you can put your energy into whatever works for you. 

I realize interaction itself might be exhausting, so it might not help, but it's just a thought. But I would do it only if it makes it better for you and you need to do it to see your grandkids. I wouldn't do it in a way that sets up additional ridiculous expectations.

Good luck! I bet you're a great grandma!

[lynn]

They are asking way to much and are very unreasonable.    I never had anyone around to watch my kids.   Dh and I made it work. 

[MercyA]

Oh hell no. Their expectations are ridiculous! My parents have nine grandchildren and live near to all of them. My siblings and I have never, ever expected anything like this from them. We ask them to watch our kids only when it's necessary--which means, on the rare occasions we or our spouses can't care for them ourselves--and maybe once or twice a year or so for a special occasion. Taking care of kids is WORK. We take our kids to our parents' house to visit and then bring them home! And my parents adore their grandchildren. But it's not their job to take care of OUR kids. I understand some grandparents like to do it and that's fine, but it's shouldn't be an expectation. The nerve. Unbelievable.

Stephanie, you are not in the wrong here, at all. And your DIL is being rude and unkind, to put it mildly. Hopefully she will mature and gain wisdom with time. 

Praying for the situation.

 

[Spryte]

Wow. That’s a ridiculous, selfish demand. Just wow. There aren’t words.

(It would be a lovely gift, from a grandparent who could manage all that, but gift would be the operative word there. As a demand it’s utterly ridiculous!)

Honestly, OP, you could probably use help from your family right about now, not the other way around! I know a bit about what you’ve been through, and we were in similar places last spring, remember? I’m still not 100%, I can’t imagine trying to watch littles right now, I just can’t.  You could really use some help from your kids yourself, probably.  

Ok, so I agree with everyone else. Your health isn’t there, even if your heart wants to do it all.

I also think you may need to strategize a bit about how to create some tradition that makes them feel they are “getting something” so you don’t end up being cut out when they have more family move to the area.

If you want to do that … Having them over every Sunday is a great idea, but I agree with a PP that they may start to feel that’s too much, it’s their weekend, they aren’t getting enough out of it. If you and DH can drive comfortably, I think taking dinner to them one night a week is fabulous.  That way they aren’t driving, and complaining about that, they get out of cooking, and you get a visit. You can visit with them all, and after dinner send the couple out for a little dessert date while you get the kids to bed. You could even offer to do the baths, if your body cooperates. But, of course, you need to be on the road by 9 (or whatever). 

If you can afford it, and they can’t, maybe offer to pay for a babysitter from care.com once or twice a week (or month).  Get that babysitter relationship established.  Or do what another PP suggested and hire a grandmother’s helper for every other Saturday, and give them 4-6 hours if you are inclined, whatever is comfortable for you.

I don’t think you have to do these things, just trying to brainstorm. I think you need to decide what’s reasonable for you, and tell them. Firmly. “No, I can’t do x, y, z. That won’t work for me. But here’s what I can do - “ … That’s where I would land, anyway.

One random thought - Are they having marital issues? You don’t have to answer, but something about the demanding nature of this makes me think they are struggling, or someone is dealing with depression, or something is feeling off there.  
 

ETA: another idea… If they are struggling with managing their lives and you want to help and can afford it - pay for a housekeeper for them? A meal service? Those could help, too.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Spryte

[TravelingChris]

3 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Your kids have unreasonable expectations.

 

You warned them before they moved.

I had NO reliable babysitting help at those ages. They went to daycare (Which we paid for) or I took them grocery shopping with me or dad looked after them. And I paid for babysitting when we needed it outside of that. VERY occasionally (much less than once a week. Even less than once a month) my sister took them for a few hours so my husband and I got some alone time.  But I didn't expect it. She sat me down when I moved to Texas and explained the same thing -- she loved my kids but she did not want to be the regular babysitter. So we found babysitters to pay when we needed it.

I never had any help at all.  We took our children places, use base day care or used private babysitters. We never lived near any family.  Plus I didn't even want any of them to care for my kids. My brother is autistic.  My sister was bipolar.  My dh's mom was a martyr who practiced the silent treatment for 2 days when dh decided to join the USAF and go to Officer Training School- she often used the silent treatment.  My FIL did care for the kids for a few hours a few times when he visited (he visited alone once and twice when his wife was alive.  Also, MIL didn't understand ADHD and didn't like that we had my son getting ADHD medications.  He also got injured under her care-so I wasn't too unhappy that we weren't close to her.  

I have Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Ankolysing Spondylitis, Sjogren's, Asthma, widespread neuropathy, secondary fibromyalgia, blood clotting, etc. I am going to be a first time grandmother in November.   I already know that I will need a helper, my dh or someone else, to help me with the baby.  But that person will be able to help the baby and me, so there is that.  And no, I could never do as much babysitting by myself.  As I said, I can't even probably do babysitting without someone else.

[Shoeless]

I have only read some of the responses. 

The "self-care" and "me-time" thing is...interesting. Why can't they get their "self-care" in after the kids are in bed?  

I would have given so much to have anyone watch DS13 for an hour or two once  *a month*, so I could get a haircut or take care of doctor appointments.  It's crazy to me that they expect hours and hours every week so they can...get mani pedis? If they can afford that, they can scrape together the cash for a babysitter.

They are being really obnoxious.  Even if you wanted to give up all your free time to watch the kids, you physically can't do it. Your parents cannot do it, (I would never dream of asking DH's 80+ yo grandpa to watch a very young child! It would exhaust the poor man!) 

[chiguirre]

OP, riffing off of @TravelingChris's idea, could you hire a mother's helper to help you babysit? I'd pick a time you could commit to and get a reliable babysitter to help you all out. It's not ideal, but it would put you on the schedule and establish a routine so that you don't lose contact with your grandkids when the other family moves to your area.

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with this and I hope you can work something out.

[Shoeless]

Gosh, I don't know if I'd want to set the precedent that you'll pay for a mother's helper. I could see that morphing into some other over-the-top expectation in short order. 

[footballmom]

You know you are validated when every single person that’s responded is agreeing YOU are not the problem, lol. 
 

At the end of the day, your DS and DIL likely won’t see their entitlement or skewed reality for what it is so don’t waste any breath trying to reason them through that.  I would try to “hold the line” with very clearly what you are willing to do.  You can validate them “raising little ones is hard, I’m sure it’s nice to have a break / me time” AND also “physically, here’s what I can do for you. Period. The end”. I also agree with others that if your DH can engage with clear boundaries communicated, even better.  “Hey, mom and I were talking tonight and here’s what we can do next week.”

You can only control you.  There’s a chance you may get little time with them once her family moves.  Or her family might have trouble with boundaries.  But, killing you self now won’t change that outcome and you don’t want your grandkids to only get an exhausted grandmother grinding through her pain to care for them. Hugs!

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, MissLemon said:

Gosh, I don't know if I'd want to set the precedent that you'll pay for a mother's helper. I could see that morphing into some other over-the-top expectation in short order. 

Agreed. I could see having someone come to your house to help *OP* and ensure they can have time together but I wouldn't pay for help at their house.

[Shoeless]

Just now, Sneezyone said:

Agreed. I could see having someone come to your house to help *OP* and ensure they can have time together but I wouldn't pay for help at their house.

I'm a hard-a$$ because I wouldn't pay for any help at all. I could see them saying "Well, if you are willing to pay for someone to help at your house, then why won't you pay for that help to come to our house?"  

[Scarlett]

Stephanie I completely agree with everyone else….the entitlement is shocking.  It is sticky though because you do want to see the kids as much as you can reasonably handle.  
 

The one thing I will say is that this difficult baby/toddler stage goes by quickly and it won’t be long before they are much easier to handle.  So you might find a way to say that to your son.  Not as a promise of course…. But as a possibility. 

[Sneezyone]

Just now, MissLemon said:

I'm a hard-a$$ because I wouldn't pay for any help at all. I could see them saying "Well, if you are willing to pay for someone to help at your house, then why won't you pay for that help to come to our house?"  

It doesn't sound like that's likely b/c their goal is childfree time. Even with a mother's helper around, there are questions and issues, and kids escaping the corral, LOL. This couple sounds so off to me. Like, helping out with new parents/kids is pretty standard with both of my parents and they practically leapt at the chance to take my kids from me (I certainly didn't mind, lol). Then again, as my dad's health got worse, I wouldn't have dreamed of, let alone crooked my lips to demand, leaving my toddler with him for hours on end. A quick trip to the grocery store, sure. That's about it.

[PinkTulip]

Wow - no way! I had 4 kids in 5 years and a DH who worked 90+ hours a week. No family nearby and only friends with whom I would occasionally trade with (8 kids under 6 between us, so it was hard to trade).  Grocery shopping was once a week early on Saturday mornings while DH was home with the kids, and self-care meant I was lucky to shower and get ready in the 30 minutes that Barney or whatever show could hold their attention. I always felt like they were my kids so it was my responsibility to deal with. What did they think life would be like with two so close together? 
 

Maybe you could invite them for Sunday dinner once a month or every other week to stay connected with the grandkids. Just long enough to have some time together, but not so much that you are jeopardizing your own health. I’m so sorry you are in this difficult situation, but you are definitely not the unreasonable one here! 

[KathyBC]

Haven't read any replies. If her family is truly moving here in a couple of months, and they can't seem to wrap their head around paying a sitter, maybe you should?  Hire a young local homeschooler to help you when you have them? Just to keep your foot in the door for when you see them less often?

[Shoeless]

1 minute ago, Sneezyone said:

It doesn't sound like that's likely b/c their goal is childfree time. Even with a mother's helper around, there are questions and issues, and kids escaping the corral, LOL. This couple sounds so off to me. Like, helping out with new parents/kids is pretty standard with both of my parents and they practically leapt at the chance to take my kids from me (I certainly didn't mind, lol). Then again, as my dad's health got worse, I wouldn't have dreamed of, let alone crooked my lips to demand, leaving my toddler with him for hours on end. A quick trip to the grocery store, sure. That's about it.

That's the part that is so weird to me, the expectation that parents should have these big blocks of childfree time.  Not simply 2 hours for a nice dinner with your spouse every so often, but "me time" and "couple time", and "girl/guy time" with friends.  I don't understand where this expectation comes from, but I've seen it pop up with a younger relative of mine. It confuses me, lol. 

[KathyBC]

17 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I'm a hard-a$$ because I wouldn't pay for any help at all. I could see them saying "Well, if you are willing to pay for someone to help at your house, then why won't you pay for that help to come to our house?"  

While this is a possibility, it might also open them up to the idea.

[Danae]

4 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

That night on Facebook she posted a meme that said something along the lines of "babysitting kids while she goes to the grocery store (which I've done) isn't giving her a break, babysitting the kids while she cleans the house (Yep, done that too) isn't giving her a break, taking the kids to do something fun without her (yup, this one too) isn't giving her a break" and on it went.

I wanted to mention this part specifically, because this is a case where the meme, which has some truth in it, is being misused. Where I’ve seen it is calling out inequality in sharing parenting responsibility — if mom watches the kids alone on Friday night so dad can play games with his buddies and dad watched the kids alone on Saturday morning so mom can go grocery shopping that’s not a fair division of duties even if they both have the same number of hours of solo child care.  But that only applies when the people in question should have equal responsibility to care for the children.  A grandparent does not have that responsibility; when they offer to help it is a gift. 

[Sneezyone]

10 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

That's the part that is so weird to me, the expectation that parents should have these big blocks of childfree time.  Not simply 2 hours for a nice dinner with your spouse every so often, but "me time" and "couple time", and "girl/guy time" with friends.  I don't understand where this expectation comes from, but I've seen it pop up with a younger relative of mine. It confuses me, lol. 

I think most parents could REALLY use childfree time and many people would like to have it too. The notion of "ME" time as parents is very much like the concept of "ME" time as grandparents. It's wanting/needing space to do the things that keep you healthy and sane. These people seem like a really extreme example of something that is perfectly healthy in moderation (JMHO). Then again, I'm more of a village people thinker. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Sneezyone

[alisoncooks]

Wow. How very spoiled and entitled. 

I think DIL needs to value YOUR self-care as highly as she does her own. Also, I think her expectations are a little high -- most of us (when we have/had littles) get self-care by hiding in the bathroom and eating secret chocolate.  It's just the reality of that stage of life. 

[Lecka]

I don’t think it’s unhealthy to want, it just needs to be appropriate.  Trading with friends or paying a babysitter if parents are not able to do it.  

[Spryte]

1 minute ago, alisoncooks said:

Wow. How very spoiled and entitled. 

I think DIL needs to value YOUR self-care as highly as she does her own. Also, I think her expectations are a little high -- most of us (when we have/had littles) get self-care by hiding in the bathroom and eating secret chocolate.  It's just the reality of that stage of life. 

Wait. How did you know?! I thought I was the only one hiding in the closet with the secret stash. 🤣

[Shoeless]

8 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I think most parents could REALLY use childfree time and many people would like to have it too. The notion of "ME" time as parents is very much like the concept of "ME" time as grandparents. It's wanting/needing space to do the things that keep you healthy and sane. These people seem like a really extreme example of something that is perfectly healthy in moderation (JMHO). Then again, I'm more of a village people thinker. 

I get plenty of me time, but I guess I have a reduced expectation compared to these parents. With my younger relative, there seems to be an expectation of being able to socialize the way they did prior to having kids.  I don't expect to have 5 or 6 hours in one block, by myself, totally free of all responsibilities, lol. I could do that now that DS is 13, but when he was a wee guy? No way.  But I still found an hour or two after he went to bed to fiddle around with hobbies, read, etc. 

 

[Sneezyone]

38 minutes ago, MissLemon said:

I get plenty of me time, but I guess I have a reduced expectation compared to these parents. With my younger relative, there seems to be an expectation of being able to socialize the way they did prior to having kids.  I don't expect to have 5 or 6 hours in one block, by myself, totally free of all responsibilities, lol. I could do that now that DS is 13, but when he was a wee guy? No way.  But I still found an hour or two after he went to bed to fiddle around with hobbies, read, etc. 

 

I had that kind of time to myself, savored it too, lol. It wasn’t all the time but it was right on time/just in time. Sometimes I just slept or read a book. It was GLORIOUS. But, again, I prioritized that (even went on girls trips with friends) and DH was usually the one who spelled me. I guess what’s weird to me is that they expect to always have those long stretches together vs trading off responsibilities. DH wasn’t always around but when he was he always made sure I could be alone and recharge from time to time. It would be up to OPs DS to do that tho.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Sneezyone

[KungFuPanda]

They’ll never LEARN to fly solo if they never HAVE to fly solo. They sound ridiculously selfish. I swear they remind me of the couple in Hockey’s post with the level of care they expect from relatives. Who needs to get their nails done for five hours? They need to grow up and realize parents aren’t entitled to breaks just because they want one right now. 

[Clarita]

With all these comments I hope you know you are in the right. Here are some situations that I have seen work for myself and other people though (in terms of taking care of kids and ourselves.) My MIL lives 5 min away from us and she does not babysit my kids on a regular basis even though she is a perfectly healthy for her age. Every time I ask for help I tell her she can say no; no excuse necessary.

I found two tight knit group of friends through church women's group and a nearby church's playdate group (in the later most people there didn't go to church it was an outreach program). Both these groups serve as my village. We babysit each other's kids, provide meals when necessary, advice etc. So, you could suggest DIL or your son take their kids to some community stuff (library Storytime, community activities) and meet other parents who could be their village. 

Neighbors are also great. My neighbors have taken care of our kids in emergencies and/or just give me 15min to put dinner on the table. 

If they need this much time away from their kids and can't afford hired help. They have to make a larger village. 

As for the meme I get it going grocery shopping, doing laundry isn't really "me time," I honestly just do those with my young kids. Doing those things with young kids is so good for them especially if you are frazzled because it's crazy to bring 2 under 2 grocery shopping. It will teach the kids to be a team with the family because momma isn't perfect and can't handle everything. My kids and I have bonded so much over times when I had to pick our groceries up from the parking lot floor, witnessing mommy get impromptu surgery (the nurse asked for someone to take the kids away when she realized what was happening), and nothing like seeing mommy drop all your things in the middle of a parking lot to tell you "it's a bad idea to run off in a parking lot".  

 

[SKL]

Your kids are way too entitled.

A few thoughts:

1) Can you invest in a good-sized "play yard" (I had this one with 8 panels) where you can just let them play while you sit for much of the time?  I bought one of these for my folks' house.

https://smile.amazon.com/North-States-Superyard-6-Panel-Barrier/dp/B07JGDGG23/ref=sr_1_32?dchild=1&keywords=play+yard&qid=1629888974&sr=8-32

2) Any chance that a neighbor kid or teen (or adult even) would be willing to come over and play when the babies are there?

3) To your son:  "I don't think you believed me when I told you that I have physical health issues.  I can't wish them away.  I love your kids, but babysitting is a physical activity.  Let's brainstorm what we can do to make this work."

I honestly have zero sympathy for young adults who need a break from their own toddlers.  My kids were born when I was 40, and I (a single mom) didn't "need a break."  The longest I ever left them with my folks was under 2 hours (once), and damned if I would have complained about it.  We visit so that my kids have a relationship with their grandparents, which is more likely to happen if I'm there to keep the kids manageable.

Also, posting crap on facebook is just mean.  Somebody really didn't think that through.  Not sure what, if anything, I would do about that.

[ETA I should clarify - I did have my dad drive to my house to babysit two or three times.  He then politely told me that it was too much for him and I respected that.]

Edited August 25, 2021 by SKL

[Katy]

The more I think about this the more I think DIL just isn’t a kid person.  She needs to put her kids in a good daycare and find a job. And use the rest of the money she earns on a housekeeper and regular babysitter.  There’s nothing wrong with not loving children.  It doesn’t mean you can’t still love your own.  But if you need regular all-day breaks from them it’s completely unreasonable to demand someone else provide that for you for free. 

[Carrie12345]

10 hours ago, MissLemon said:

That's the part that is so weird to me, the expectation that parents should have these big blocks of childfree time.  Not simply 2 hours for a nice dinner with your spouse every so often, but "me time" and "couple time", and "girl/guy time" with friends.  I don't understand where this expectation comes from, but I've seen it pop up with a younger relative of mine. It confuses me, lol. 

I completely agree.  
I had multiple hands to help when my first wave of kids was born, which is why I pointed out that some grandparents can be TOO demanding.
With my firstborn, I had a parent with a zero babysitting rule, deeply rooted in punishment for me having a baby so young. (21, for the record. Though I think that would have been harsh at any age, considering there were no age or health issues involved.) And then she moved away.  
When #2 and #3 came along, I had a few relatives who were fabulous in terms of doctor appointments, thank goodness.  But I also had a set who frequently tried to keep my kids for days... even a week or more.  I didn’t HAVE kids to be without my kids so much!!!  
Moving was the greatest thing for us, but it meant absolutely no help from the time my girls were toddlers until the last two were safe enough to leave with the older ones for an hour. With a husband who worked long hours and traveled a lot.

I don’t think that’s the way it SHOULD be, but it’s completely normal and expected to loose a lot of freedom when having kids. To expect other people to step in so you can regularly and routinely be child free is nuts. Keyword: expect.  If one party offers and the other is comfortable with it, by all means, make each other happy!

[Scarlett]

I did not realize the DIL is a SAHM..  She very well might be one of those who can only tolerate so much time with her children.  It makes me so,sad because what I wouldn’t give to have my son that age again. 
 

Regardless it isn’t @stephanier.1765’s fault the DIL feels that way,  or her responsibility to fix.  I think the main issue right now is finding a way to keep access to the children while enforcing perfectly reasonable boundaries.  

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, katilac said:

A couple that needs such high levels of self-care should really not have two kids in two years. 

 

Yes, yes, yes   I so totally agree.  I started getting my chronic illnesses in tenth grade, progressed a lot in college, and after college, knew I had rheumatological disease or diseases.  We spaced our children 4.3 and 3.3 years apart because I knew very well I could not keep up with 2 very small active kids.  As it was, by the time I had my third, my RA came roaring back after the 9 month relief and I had to devise many hacks to just take care of my little dd2- I used the stroller in the house to roll her around, etc.  Because from mid Dec to mid March, I was dropping all sorts of things and even had to have my husband or my 7 year old son cut my food for me.  But I raised her fine without any outside family help.  That is just how it was- a typical military life with dh travelling at times and not being able to help too.

[TravelingChris]

14 hours ago, happi duck said:

 

My mom died when my oldest was ten weeks old.  It makes me so angry when people lucky enough to still have parents act like entitled jerks.

Do they actually not realize that many of us raise our kids without "help"?

 

I am very sorry for your loss back then.  My mom died less than a year after I was married and before any kids and since my dad died when I was 13, I had no parents to depend on when I had my kids.  By the time dd2 was born, she only had a paternal grandfather alive who she saw for three times in his life because he didn't really want to be involved in their lives.

[Cordelia]

A lot of people have responded, but I'm throwing in my two cents because I currently have a 5 year old, a 3 year old, and a 15 month old.

Asking for that much free childcare is ridiculous. 

It also sounds to me like DIL might be happier with a job and daycare, but they'll probably need to figure that out for themselves. 

[Soror]

Chiming in to agree with everyone they are entirely out of line.

My in laws live next door and never helped more than a few times a year even when the kids were small. They both worked and I don't think MIL likes little kids. FIL helped more when he retired but still nothing consistent or close to that much. MIL only now has asked the kids to visit more- that is because they help her and she is lonely now that she is widowed.

[SKL]

A couple other practical thoughts:

1) Would it be easier for you to do grandma time without great-grandma?  Is it possible that concurrent elder care is complicating the situation?

2) Would it be easier for you to drive to their house rather than having the kids at your house?

Of course I still think it is ridiculous the way they are thinking and expressing themselves here.  But maybe there is a happy medium for both of you somewhere.

[SKL]

And now I am wondering why there aren't any facebook memes to the effect of "raise your own damn kids," LOL.

[Insertcreativenamehere]

My MIL helped with our kids quite a bit when they were toddlers/preschoolers because I was working full-time. But, she was able to schedule her days so that both days, they all attended a church Bible study with excellent children's programs so she actually only had them for a few hours in the afternoons. I would never have dreamed of asking for this, but she offered, and I certainly would never have asked for such extensive help to enable my own "self-care." I have now been a SAHM for 10+ years and typically, I used YMCA drop-in child care to give me an hour or so a few times a week to workout as my self-care. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Insertcreativenamehere

[SKL]

My first "me time" after becoming a mom was when we started Sunday School when they were 3.  One hour per week.  It was a cherished luxury for 8 years.

I went to one grown-up movie when my kids were little.  I paid for childcare to make this happen.

I certainly used childcare and (rarely) family babysitting for work activities.  And even that was glorious in its own way.  😛

[DawnM]

Wow.   I am so sorry.   We raised our older kids with ZERO help.   We had no grandparents nearby at all.    They are being so unreasonable and dare I say, selfish.

[marbel]

17 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Then the next morning my son calls saying when they lived in NH they had too much help and now they don't have any.

I'm just pulling out this little bit from the OP. So, they had a ton of help early on, and then moved, and now expect the same levels of help, regardless of the fact that the people are fewer and different.  They got used to it, so they "need" it.  

I'm really sorry. I have seen parents of young children pit the "sets" of grandparents against each other. Often grandparents contribute by trying to one-up each other so they become the favored ones. It's so ugly.  Adults should be able to understand that everyone has something different to offer and everyone has their own challenges.

It doesn't matter what level of help any of us here had or didn't have when our kids were young. Your son and DIL need to be educated, somehow, that you simply cannot do the things they think they need; it's not a matter of not wanting to. 

Can your husband have a talk with his son? And explain that it is not a lack of desire or will, but a lack of ability. 

And/or, maybe a letter, written on paper and mailed to them. That may be a little harder to ignore than an email and certainly than a text conversation.  

And please do not hire a helper yourself. That can only feed their feelings of entitlement. 

I'm so sorry. I don't have grandchildren but honestly I do have some  moments of dread that I will displease my as-yet-hypothetical daughter-in-law and not have access to grandchildren.  In my experience, it is the mother who controls access to the kids and some are very quick to take it away or use it as a bargaining chip to get what they want. 

[elegantlion]

I can't believe your son would dictate to you what hours you would babysit! That's ridiculous.