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I need help because I'm terrible at communicating but this can't continue and please, this is a JAWM type post


stephanier.1765
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16 minutes ago, Danae said:

1) Stop taking her Facebook posts personally.

2) She’s not wrong.  She doesn’t have the kind of family support she needs to work outside the home without putting her son in daycare because you cannot provide that.  The whole beginning of this thread was about how you cannot do that, and wanting to know how to communicate to them that you cannot do that.  Now you’re mad that she didn’t ask you to do a thing that you’ve repeatedly said you physically cannot do?

The plan was, as a family (my parents, DH and I), to come together despite the pain and stress involved with caring for a small child and help them through this medical crisis. Temporary measures until it was safe for grandson to re-enter daycare or for her family to get here. So we had put our health care aside for his. I think that's completely different from agreeing to watch both children for hours on end so they could have "me" time. Plus caring for just one is infinitely easier than both. He's not walking yet so it's easier caring for him all around.

I did tell her that I prefer these kinds of conversations be in person. Anything important needs to be discussed because things can be misunderstood through the typed word. In person or even over the phone, you can have a back and forth type of dialog.

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8 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

But she isn't even vague booking. When she says she has no family help when in fact she does she is painting OP and the rest of the local family in a bad light. That is damaging to relationships and needs to be addressed

Exactly.  Because she does have SOME family help even if it is not exactly what she wants/needs.

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14 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

But she isn't even vague booking. When she says she has no family help when in fact she does she is painting OP and the rest of the local family in a bad light. That is damaging to relationships and needs to be addressed

I can see a both sides of this.  The OP cannot and should not provide day care.  And the DIL's family isn't there.  It's normal for her to feel closer to her own family and they just moved there so they are finding their bearings.  Her baby is sick, had a seizure and she needs to make a major life change right after moving.  I can see why she'd want both kids to have the same child care situation too.  That is a lot of change and stress for a young mom. 

I can totally see how it would hurt the OP the way it was posted and I'm very sorry for that.  I could see how a young person without a lot of self awareness and perspective could post something like that without intending to jab anyone.  I do wonder how the marriage is, like why post this to the world and not be talking to your spouse.

Anyway how a discussion about how someone else uses their social media would go over really depends on the relationships and personalities involved.  I have family members who I could have open discussion like this with and those who would immediately shut down and go into defense mode and it would be a pointless endeavor.  I usually find myself on the side of it's not my job to police other people's social media.  If their posting patterns don't work for me, I can unfollow or unfriend.   It may be more productive to just get in the habit of communicating directly with them.  

OP, it really is ok if you can't solve all their problems even though I know that is always our first instinct as parents.  I'm sorry for your stress!  ❤️  

 

Edited by FuzzyCatz
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40 minutes ago, Danae said:

1) Stop taking her Facebook posts personally.

2) She’s not wrong.  She doesn’t have the kind of family support she needs to work outside the home without putting her son in daycare because you cannot provide that.  The whole beginning of this thread was about how you cannot do that, and wanting to know how to communicate to them that you cannot do that.  Now you’re mad that she didn’t ask you to do a thing that you’ve repeatedly said you physically cannot do?

I guess I get where your DIL is coming from.  I have the level of family support she’s used to.  My in laws watch my kids 48 hours a week. I worked a 72 hour shift last week and they had the kids the whole time.  They do take them for date nights and just randomnly call and ask to have them.  We’ve offered so many times to pay them but they refuse.  We pay their phone bill without them knowing sometimes lol.  When they aren’t available or I am trying to give them a break, my sister, sister in law or cousin watches my kids.

But my mom is not physically able to watch my kids like that.  She can take one kid for a couple hours.  I know she would love to have them more but has been specific with me about her limitations right now.  That’s fine.  But I desperately need afterschool childcare right now as MIL is busy a couple afternoons a week(and rightfully should be doing her own thing!) and it’s impossible to find.  I DID post a rant on FB about how I’m tired of upending my life because childcare is so freaking impossible in our area.  But I didn’t mean it as a slam against my mom.  We’ve been incredibly fortunate for 10 years to have grandparents, aunts and cousins who all live close by and we frequently trade childcare.  I didn’t expect that to last forever, but transitioning from high levels of family support to more limited ones IS very frustrating.  I would not take this personally.  If anything, you’ve told her before that you can’t physically babysit all the time and it sounds like she listened and understood that.  It’s okay to vent. It is frustrating for everyone involved.

And this may or may not be a short term health crisis.  It can take a while for kids to outgrow seizures, so she may be looking long term, not wanting to expect you to watch him for years, and trying to figure out how on earth to manage this without the high level of family support she’s used too.

Edited by Mrs Tiggywinkle
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I know this isn’t pertinent to the topic, but did they figure out what illness your GS had? I felt worried to know you went over to care for him while he was sick, because you catching whatever he has doesn’t seem like a good thing for your health. We have always cancelled visits with grandparents if a kid is sick, because we definitely don’t want to pass things to them. 

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In my opinion, it is adding the comment that no family can help until her family arrives that is the issue.  Making a post about needing to find a new job because of childcare issues without throwing in a jab at the in-laws who have been trying to help you but just not the way you want is a different story.  Those types of posts are damaging to relationships and simply ignoring their existence won't be helpful because OP will still hear about them from other people.  Serious damage can be done to the relationship in so many ways which I'm sure OP doesn't want.  So it need to be addressed and worked through.

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1 minute ago, hjffkj said:

In my opinion, it is adding the comment that no family can help until her family arrives that is the issue.  Making a post about needing to find a new job because of childcare issues without throwing in a jab at the in-laws who have been trying to help you but just not the way you want is a different story.  Those types of posts are damaging to relationships and simply ignoring their existence won't be helpful because OP will still hear about them from other people.  Serious damage can be done to the relationship in so many ways which I'm sure OP doesn't want.  So it need to be addressed and worked through.

Thank you, I wasn't coming through clearly (back to bad communicator) but, yes, I wasn't mad that she said no. I was a little hurt that she didn't feel able to talk to me about what the doctor said when I was there because at that point I had no idea. And I was a little hurt that her post insinuated that she had no family support but I never intended to respond to it. I never do. DH has never read her FB. He's heard me mention a thing here and there about it but had never seen it for himself. I wish now he still hadn't because he's fuming about how it paints our side of the family including the grandparents. I guess since I have seen it a bit at a time that I was able to vent privately but ignore it publicly. But as he read one post after another, he saw one big, ugly picture and responded. So we definitely need to figure out a way to get together and work things out so everyone can be on the same page and work together for the best of everyone.

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2 hours ago, stephanier.1765 said:

The latest - 

Saturday didn't happen because they were sick. They ended up taking grandson (1yo) to the ER because he had a seizure. At the ER they gave him zofran for nausea and he had an allergic reaction to that. My poor little dude! They suspect the seizure was a febrile one.

So she asked me to come over yesterday to watch the kids while DS and her sanitized the toys. I did for about 4 hours. It went fine. I even asked DIL if I could take granddaughter (2yo) out with me this weekend to run errands thinking this would give her somewhat of a break and granddaughter used to spending more time with me while out. She said yes. 

But then today happened. I didn't realize until my son's GF pointed it out that DIL has posted on FB that she needs to find a new job because the doctor told her that grandson needs to stop going to daycare, at least for a while, and that she needed a stay-at-home job because she doesn't have any family support here and won't until her family moves down here. I was there for 4 hours and she never brought that up with me once. I don't get on the internet every day. If I'm busy, it's the first thing that goes. I've told all of them this so I can only hope she didn't assume I had read it and ignored it, but maybe she did. 🤷‍♀️

So after seeing her post, I discussed the situation with my parents and my dh to see what we could do to help. My parents offered to keep him some days, DH offered to help when he got home, and so I told DIL that I could watch him to help keep him away from all the kiddie germs. She said no. The drive is too far. She didn't say so but I think she wants to me to go to their house or pick him up, or even keep them both. So I asked if DS could drop him off instead to make things easier for her and I didn't get a reply until DH made the situation worse. He had been looking forward to seeing grandson when he got home from work and I guess he was upset by her refusal and posted to her FB message saying that I had offered to help them but she said no. I hate drama. I especially hate social media drama so I asked him to delete it. Too late, she had already seen it and that's when she finally replied to my question about DS and then went on about how hurt she was that DH posted that on her FB. So now drama is spread all around. Ugh, double ugh! My stomach hurts. I don't know what's next but I can't imagine it being good. 

So, from a working outside the home mom perspective, she was right to say no to that. She needs consistent care for both kids, not dropping one off at care/school and another 30 min/1 hr away. Not only that but your health makes the kind of care your offering (while nice) unreliable. I’m sure that’s disappointing but it’s the right thing to do. I would have been upset with your DH too. Her feelings aren’t wrong. It’s not the kind of help/support she needs, especially if her spouse isn’t reliable either. You and your DH made your position clear WRT boundaries and now she is allowed to vent and problem solve on her own SM feed to find the kind of support she needs. She didn’t name you personally. She expressed her reality…I don’t have the support I need right now.

Edited by Sneezyone
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2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

this is when you make a reply to that post about how glad you were you were able to spend FOUR HOURS, despite your debilitating medical conditions, watching her kids while she sanitized toys.

her friends will eventually figure out her lack of gratitude.  I guarantee, she's ungrateful to her "friends" irl too.

She may just like playing the martyr.

Oh come on…her son is experiencing medical issues and she’s got a spouse who seems to prefer gaming to parenting. Her family (that can/will pitch in in the way she needs) is thousands of miles away and she is facing the prospect of giving up a job/career that she may actually enjoy and/or need to support the family. That requires some grace too. OP cannot give her reliable, consistent care. Period, full stop. There’s no shame in that. She’s just venting/frustrated that she’s in this position. Lord knows, when my kids were little and I was working crazy politico hours and DH was deployed, I felt the same way. It has a way of making you bitter. DH never had any such issues/concerns. If it were me in this position, I’d be tearing my son a new one for putting his spouse in this position. He, too, can be working to find care. He, too, can be helping relieve the burden. She shouldn’t need FB to vent. This doesn’t sound like a marriage that’s destined to last.

Edited by Sneezyone
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4 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m sorry, I just can’t get past the idea that two adults can’t wash toys and keep two kids alive. Life must feel so hard to them. 

They had a child in the ER the day before,  no matter what the issue that is a long draining ordeal.  I'm sure they could have done it all with the kids there but there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help if it will make a stressful situation easier

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34 minutes ago, mom2scouts said:

Seriously! I would have loved that much "lack of family support" when my kids were young.

there's supportive . . . . . and there's . . . supportive . . .

This girl thinks she is entitled to her extended family "supporting" her by taking care of her children, when she wants and for how long she wants so she can have "me time" to go frolic and cavort.  basically do what she wants with no obligations to her children. (or anyone else.)

She reminds me of my mother and her "but that's not a bill" when questioned about where she was spending money.  (you still have to pay for it - it's a bill.)

My brother was constantly sending me things trying to get ME to give HIM money so he could send his daughter to this, that, or the other special opportunity.  . .    At the time, their income was easily twice ours.  

Some people have a lot of chutzpah. 

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46 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

I’m sorry, I just can’t get past the idea that two adults can’t wash toys and keep two kids alive. Life must feel so hard to them. 

I think some just aren't prepared for realities of small children.  I once received a frantic phone call from a young mom of one, who was renting from a couple with four young boys  Frantic mom was insisting the mom of four needed someone to watch the others while she took one to the dr . . .  I called mom of four, and asked her.  She was confused and didn't see what the big deal was.   She was planning on taking them all.  no issues.  If she hadn't wanted to - she would have called someone to trade babysitting.

another mom who could only take her one child to the hospital for his treatments - but had zero issue leaving all of her kids with the step-mom when she was taking the same child (plus her kids and step kids) to the hospital for his treatments.  Step mom just did it - with six kids. (and entertained the other five for the hours they were there)  bio-mom only took the one.

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I had a neighbor with a newborn who called me to hold the baby while she changed the sheets in the crib. I went over but while I was there I showed her how she could put the baby in the baby rocker in the future. (I didn’t tell her that I would have just put a blanket on the carpeted floor and put the baby on that because I think that would have been too much for her to handle). 

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1 hour ago, hjffkj said:

They had a child in the ER the day before,  no matter what the issue that is a long draining ordeal.  I'm sure they could have done it all with the kids there but there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for help if it will make a stressful situation easier

Yeah, parenting gets crazy!  
It was very generous of the OP to lend a hand, because it really doesn’t sound like something they would have been capable of managing. 

28 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I think some just aren't prepared for realities of small children.  I once received a frantic phone call from a young mom of one, who was renting from a couple with four young boys  Frantic mom was insisting the mom of four needed someone to watch the others while she took one to the dr . . .  I called mom of four, and asked her.  She was confused and didn't see what the big deal was.   She was planning on taking them all.  no issues.  If she hadn't wanted to - she would have called someone to trade babysitting.

another mom who could only take her one child to the hospital for his treatments - but had zero issue leaving all of her kids with the step-mom when she was taking the same child (plus her kids and step kids) to the hospital for his treatments.  Step mom just did it - with six kids. (and entertained the other five for the hours they were there)  bio-mom only took the one.

Bringing 5 kids to 1 kid’s specialist appointments 90 minutes each way for 9 months (weekly, gradually reduced to monthly) was definitely not my idea of a good time. 
OH, or the craziness of ASD evals for a 5yo, with a baby, while hugely pregnant and immediately post partum!  Not fun.

Not things I wish on other people at all. Ever. But when a parent needs to buck up, they need to buck up.

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1 hour ago, Carrie12345 said:

Yeah, parenting gets crazy!  
It was very generous of the OP to lend a hand, because it really doesn’t sound like something they would have been capable of managing. 

Bringing 5 kids to 1 kid’s specialist appointments 90 minutes each way for 9 months (weekly, gradually reduced to monthly) was definitely not my idea of a good time. 
OH, or the craziness of ASD evals for a 5yo, with a baby, while hugely pregnant and immediately post partum!  Not fun.

Not things I wish on other people at all. Ever. But when a parent needs to buck up, they need to buck up.

I would not wish my single parenting/deployment experiences on anyone and it's tiresome to hear people talk about it like it's something a MARRIED/PARTNERED person should suck up and deal with without complaint. I, personally, don't want my kids to suffer through stuff if they don't have to. There are many ways to build resilience and character. This ain't it. Funnily enough, at dinner this evening DD was filling me in on the latest happenings with her social life and she said (apropos of nothing) that she would never marry someone in the military. She admires me/DH and what we've done but she would never be happy with a SO who was gone all the time. It's not something I intend to share with DH b/c "I TOLD YOU SO!" isn't helpful right now but, yeah, DD's not wrong.

54 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Realistically putting one kid in daycare still exposes the other kid to all the germs. She needs both home, if younger can't be exposed to germs. 

This. When we moved to HI and I needed full time care while DH was gone, the only thing available was a base child care home (regulated, inspected). The problem? CDH's weren't allowed to be open long enough to provide care for parents working full time. When I talked about my situation people suggested that I go work a retail job or rapidly blinked and stared like a career wasn't something I should aspire to. 

I *just* had this conversation with my dad last week b/c he was all about 'kids today are so soft', 'subsidizing child care is socialism', and 'no one wants to work anymore'. Being a working, career-oriented mom sucks ass, especially when you don't have a partner who can or will do their fair share.

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I had a neighbor with a newborn who called me to hold the baby while she changed the sheets in the crib. I went over but while I was there I showed her how she could put the baby in the baby rocker in the future. (I didn’t tell her that I would have just put a blanket on the carpeted floor and put the baby on that because I think that would have been too much for her to handle). 

A lot of this used to be done by families. We're not as close to each other as we once were and are discouraged from relying on each other as we once did. It seems to me folks want it both ways - connection without obligation and distance/separation without consequence. Neither of my kids had any exposure to babies until I sought out opportunities for DD/DS to babysit. It's not a given that people know these things.

Edited by Sneezyone
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On 8/25/2021 at 5:49 PM, Katy said:

Wow.  She’s demanding this much time alone because her husband won’t parent instead of game?  I’d tell her to give him an ultimatum if it was my friend.  But pawning her kids off so she can equal his immaturity is not the answer. 

In her situation  I’d probably start by hiding ALL the game equipment. And leaving the kids with him for hours the second he gets home. None of this is your fault.

A coworker of DH is actually like this, I have no idea if gaming is involved, but the wife has set hours, no joke.  He walks in from work and the kids are "his" after a 12 hour work day until the kids bedtime three hours later.  🤷‍♀️  

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16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I would not wish my single parenting/deployment experiences on anyone and it's tiresome to hear people talk about it like it's something a MARRIED/PARTNERED person should suck up and deal with without complaint. I, personally, don't want my kids to suffer through stuff if they don't have to. There are many ways to build resilience and character. This ain't it.

 

This. When we moved to HI and I needed full time care while DH was gone, the only thing available was a base child care home (regulated, inspected). The problem? CDH's weren't allowed to be open long enough to provide care for parents working full time. When I talked about my situation people suggested that I go work a retail job or rapidly blinked and stared like a career wasn't something I should aspire to. 

I *just* had this conversation with my dad last week b/c he was all about 'kids today are so soft', 'subsidizing child care is socialism', and 'no one wants to work anymore'. Being a working, career-oriented mom sucks ass, especially when you don't have a partner who can or will do their fair share.

A lot of this used to be done by families. We're not as close to each other as we once were and are discouraged from relying on each other as we once did. It seems to me folks want it both ways - connection without obligation and distance/separation without consequence. Neither of my kids had any exposure to babies until I sought out opportunities for DD/DS to babysit. It's not a given that people know these things.

The neighbor was 40 years old. So yes, I did expect her to have a bit of common sense. You don’t need special baby knowledge to be able to strap a baby into a baby rocker. But I was kind. I went over. I was “the village “. And I “taught her to fish “ by showing her how to set things up so that she could change sheets in the future without needing to call a neighbor.
 

I don’t think that it’s kind to let people be too needy. And no, that isn’t an “all or nothing” statement because of course we do need people to help us on occasion and I am happy to help others. But there are a lot of genuine needs in life and I think that it’s a mistake to use up people’s goodwill and help on those things that aren’t genuine needs. 

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1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

The neighbor was 40 years old. So yes, I did expect her to have a bit of common sense. You don’t need special baby knowledge to be able to strap a baby into a baby rocker. But I was kind. I went over. I was “the village “. And I “taught her to fish “ by showing her how to set things up so that she could change sheets in the future without needing to call a neighbor.
 

I don’t think that it’s kind to let people be too needy. And no, that isn’t an “all or nothing” statement because of course we do need people to help us on occasion and I am happy to help others. But there are a lot of genuine needs in life and I think that it’s a mistake to use up people’s goodwill and help on those things that aren’t genuine needs. 

My sister is 35. She flew to VA from AR to deliver here so I could be her de facto doula. Fortunately, I am in a position where I can do that. Our parent was not (working FT). It's not about age. We simply do not have the kind of traditional relationships and connections and time to make that situation worthy of mockery. There are LOTS of things that my sister said, did, thought out loud that I found silly. She flipped out anytime the baby cried, for ex. Crying= failure to her. Cray. I'm sure my more experienced family members thought the same of me as a new mom. We don't know what we don't know. You show, tell, teach, and move on. It's not an indication that someone lacks 'common sense' or deserves scorn.

Edited by Sneezyone
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I remember getting it from all sides when my kids were little. If I did something like take my kids to the store and found it difficult, I was told it was ridiculous to shop with my kids (and don't get me started on the criticism AT the grocery store while also struggling to keep said children happy and alive--one of mine with sensory issues had to rub his body all up and down every different texture on the store shelves, knocking things all over the floor). If I said we couldn't do abc because it was too difficult with a baby, I was ridiculed, but the same people wanted me to miss all kinds of opportunities at church with grown adults because they wouldn't offer childcare and didn't want my child along (and I couldn't reliably find a sitter that I trusted to be realistic about my difficult child), but I really should be there (everyone else had grandparents to babysit for those events). All family lived away. My DH worked nutso hours before changing jobs and having a nutso commute. My kids were 2e, and my older one could reliably roll over the hard way at 2 weeks old--forget it being difficult when they start walking; he rolled, army crawled, and climbed all over way months before all that and could even remove lids and get unbuckle himself out of his carseat (which he thankfully FORGOT how to do later, lol!!!). At the same time, he had zero ability to self-soothe or self-entertain while being far more alert than most babies, took short naps, etc. He was crabby about everything and definitely took it personally if I couldn't offer him hours of undivided attention daily.

I got tons of unhelpful advice. I offered to swap tasks with people who had real needs I could meet if they would help with my kids--I was rejected for that also. 

I couldn't win. 

But I also didn't portray the kind people who did sometimes offer me help as unsupportive. I just saved their offers of help for when I was at the end up my rope and did my best the rest of the time. Mostly I just looked pathetic to everyone no matter how hard I tried. I certainly didn't have the social capital to appear snarky or entitled. 

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3 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I couldn't win. 

But I also didn't portray the kind people who did sometimes offer me help as unsupportive. I just saved their offers of help for when I was at the end up my rope and did my best the rest of the time. Mostly I just looked pathetic to everyone no matter how hard I tried. I certainly didn't have the social capital to appear snarky or entitled. 

Following this whole thread, this is where I land. Parenting is freaking hard under the best of conditions. These are not the best of conditions. The OP wasn't specifically called out on SM, she is *assuming* these posts are primarily about her/DH and not her son/DILs frustration. The OPs DIL isn't our age and I have seen a marked difference in how younger people feel about and handle SM. The initial assumption, that the snark was directed at OP, may be totally misplaced. Why would DIL talk to OP about something that her DH should be handling? It feels, increasingly, to me like this is mostly about OPs son, not OP.

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20 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

My sister is 35. She flew to VA from AR to deliver here so I could be her de facto doula. Fortunately, I am in a position where I can do that. Our parent was not (working FT). It's not about age. We simply do not have the kind of traditional relationships and connections and time to make that situation worthy of mockery. There are LOTS of things that my sister said, did, thought out loud that I found silly. I'm sure my more experienced family members thought the same of me as a new mom. We don't know what we don't know. You show, tell, teach, and move on. It's not an indication that someone lacks 'common sense' or deserves scorn.

It’s good that she had you!

My stepsister says, wisely, that we all need to be passed into parenting. For some, it happens earlier than others - siblings, cousins, babysitting gigs. I was passed in very late, at 32. I knew no babies (seriously, first of my friend group to have babies, colleagues were all waiting, etc), and essentially no baby experience ever. It just didn’t come into my life. No nieces, nephews, etc. Small family.

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15 minutes ago, Spryte said:

It’s good that she had you!

My stepsister says, wisely, that we all need to be passed into parenting. For some, it happens earlier than others - siblings, cousins, babysitting gigs. I was passed in very late, at 32. I knew no babies (seriously, first of my friend group to have babies, colleagues were all waiting, etc), and essentially no baby experience ever. It just didn’t come into my life. No nieces, nephews, etc. Small family.

ITA. My sister is 10 years younger than I am and had a TOTALLY different experience growing up--no older/younger cousins, no babies at family gatherings (we moved out of state), no babysitting, nothing. She was petrified. She's fine now but, OMG, it was touch and go for a while. LOL. I, honestly, never thought she'd become a parent. About two years ago, I realized that my kids were in bad shape in this regard. Neither had spent any extended time with kids. I ended up asking DH to see if any of the members of his class (military school) needed child care (at reduced rates) so they could be around babies/toddlers. It worked. DD voluntarily babysat today for a working mom (her friend's sister). I count that a win. The ability to effectively/efficiently care for kids is a skill like any other. It has to be learned.  

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48 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Following this whole thread, this is where I land. Parenting is freaking hard under the best of conditions. These are not the best of conditions. The OP wasn't specifically called out on SM, she is *assuming* these posts are primarily about her/DH and not her son/DILs frustration. The OPs DIL isn't our age and I have seen a marked difference in how younger people feel about and handle SM. The initial assumption, that the snark was directed at OP, may be totally misplaced. Why would DIL talk to OP about something that her DH should be handling? It feels, increasingly, to me like this is mostly about OPs son, not OP.

Well, it might be about her son but he isn’t the one rejecting offers of help and then posting on SM that she has no support now.  If she views sm a certain way she needs to learn she can actually hurt people by what she posts.  And I disagree the son needs to handle conversations between his wife and parents.  Wife is an adult…she is capable and needs to form a relationship with her MIL. 
 

I have sympathy for this mother. But she is not doing herself any favors by being so demanding. 

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9 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Well, it might be about her son but he isn’t the one rejecting offers of help and then posting on SM that she has no support now.  If she views sm a certain way she needs to learn she can actually hurt people by what she posts.  And I disagree the son needs to handle conversations between his wife and parents.  Wife is an adult…she is capable and needs to form a relationship with her MIL. 
 

I have sympathy for this mother. But she is not doing herself any favors by being so demanding. 

There are significant reasons to reject the help, specifically b/c the help doesn't meet DILs needs. If I offer you a bandaid when you're parched and you seem unhappy is that ingratitude? DIL is not responsible for dealing with her spouse's parents/managing their expectations/feelings. Further, it's INCREDIBLY immature to allow your spouse to do all the talking and bear the brunt of your parents' displeasure. Why is OP's son not outlining his family's needs, expectations, challenges, etc.?  I'm sorry, no. I TOTALLY disagree. These are married individuals who need to get their own shit together. It's not OPs problem but, sadly, she and her family may suffer the consequences when/if DIL cuts this mess off.

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35 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

There are significant reasons to reject the help, specifically b/c the help doesn't meet DILs needs. If I offer you a bandaid when you're parched and you seem unhappy is that ingratitude? DIL is not responsible for dealing with her spouse's parents/managing their expectations/feelings. Further, it's INCREDIBLY immature to allow your spouse to do all the talking and bear the brunt of your parents' displeasure. Why is OP's son not outlining his family's needs, expectations, challenges, etc.?  I'm sorry, no. I TOTALLY disagree. These are married individuals who need to get their own shit together. It's not OPs problem but, sadly, she and her family may suffer the consequences when/if DIL cuts this mess off.

Well realistically what's going to happen is she'll leave him and go back to her own family in a different state.  There's no reason to stay with a man who's abandoned your family for a video game. Sooner or later she'll lose respect for him and decide taking half his salary and moving home is preferable to ever dealing with him again.

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Re the recent stuff -

1) I think the DIL was right to say "no thank you" to the offer to sit given after the ER visit.  It seems she finally listened to what the OP was trying to tell her in the first place - she can't babysit that much.

2) I think the DIL is wrong to say things like "I have no family support."  That's insensitive and ungrateful, and completely unnecessary.  It seems mean-spirited, but could be just cluelessness.  It is probably true that she doesn't have enough family help to continue working full-time outside the house.  There is a big difference between "no support" and "fulltime daycare."

3) I think someone should calmly point out the irony of DIL feeling hurt by her FIL making a factual statement in response to her non-factual statement on SM.  That said, it is probably never productive to have that kind of public back-and-forth.

I don't see anything wrong with asking for help, whether it is technically "needed" or not.  Ask for help, but be able to take "no" for an answer, and also, know how to express gratefulness when someone does help, even a little.

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1 minute ago, Katy said:

Well realistically what's going to happen is she'll leave him and go back to her own family in a different state.  There's no reason to stay with a man who's abandoned your family for a video game. Sooner or later she'll lose respect for him and decide taking half his salary and moving home is preferable to ever dealing with him again.

Yep. Whether it applies to this specific situation or not, IMO, we need to do a better job with our sons. Given the addl. info this really doesn't sound like a DIL problem. Sorry, not sorry. Part of what bothered me from the beginning about this thread was the emphasis on DIL when she's obviously lashing out WRT marital issues and circumstances that have nothing to do with OP. I wasn't joking that this thread would make me want to rip my son a new one. If DS has learned nothing else from his childhood it should be that families work best when they are intact and both adults are engaged and involved. My DS is mildly autistic, and prefers not to talk/advocate, so I could see him choosing to defer to his spouse WRT communication, but would I cosign that approach? HELL NO! Boys/men can/should do better. 

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Just now, Sneezyone said:

Yep. Whether it applies to this specific situation or not, IMO, we need to do a better job with our sons. Given the addl. info this really doesn't sound like a DIL problem. Sorry, not sorry. Part of what bothered me from the beginning about this thread was the emphasis on DIL when she's obviously lashing out WRT marital issues and circumstances that have nothing to do with OP. I wasn't joking that this thread would make me want to rip my son a new one. If DS has learned nothing else from his childhood it should be that families work best when they are intact and both adults are engaged and involved. My DS is mildly autistic, and prefers not to talk/advocate, so I could see him choosing to defer to his spouse WRT communication, but would I cosign that approach? HELL NO! Boys/men can/should do better. 

I agree with regard to sons.  But I'd give OP a pass because she didn't necessarily realize "no family support" meant "my husband is worthless" but assumed she meant "my extended family in Florida isn't as good as my extended family at home."  Which obviously isn't the same at all.  But when you're looking at losing relationship with your grandkids because clearly what is best is for her to leave, I totally get the panicked and emotional feeling that you wish you could do more.

When I read the gaming part to DH when that news first came out, DH said it sounded like DS needs an intervention. He meant How I Met Your Mother style.  But ultimately in DIL's place I'd hide the games, give him an ultimatum, and 48 hours out of the house to choose.  Or I might pack the games, put the kids in the car, and just drive home.

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1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

There are significant reasons to reject the help, specifically b/c the help doesn't meet DILs needs. If I offer you a bandaid when you're parched and you seem unhappy is that ingratitude? DIL is not responsible for dealing with her spouse's parents/managing their expectations/feelings. Further, it's INCREDIBLY immature to allow your spouse to do all the talking and bear the brunt of your parents' displeasure. Why is OP's son not outlining his family's needs, expectations, challenges, etc.?  I'm sorry, no. I TOTALLY disagree. These are married individuals who need to get their own shit together. It's not OPs problem but, sadly, she and her family may suffer the consequences when/if DIL cuts this mess off.

I read it DIL getting mad at her FILs reply to her SM post about no family support and then rejected the offers of help.  
 

The husbands parents have even less control (for lack of a better word) over their sons behavior than the wife does.  It is possible the FB post was about her husbands lack of help but I doubt it since her husband has been with her at former location and current location and she is only complaining about current location.

So yes sons need to do better all around, but the DIL is an adult and needs to have her own adult relationship with her in-laws.

 

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18 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I read it DIL getting mad at her FILs reply to her SM post about no family support and then rejected the offers of help.  
 

The husbands parents have even less control (for lack of a better word) over their sons behavior than the wife does.  It is possible the FB post was about her husbands lack of help but I doubt it since her husband has been with her at former location and current location and she is only complaining about current location.

So yes sons need to do better all around, but the DIL is an adult and needs to have her own adult relationship with her in-laws.

 

You might want to go back and read the OPs posts. The most recent kerfluffle is the tip of the iceberg and isn’t directed at OP/OPs DH which is probably why DIL was upset by the reply.

I don’t think JAWM means we have to agree with everything that’s said in a thread, just that we provide support. I fully support OP. OP is definitely right in enforcing boundaries/limitations WRT child care. I said that up front. The rest is a marital issue, not about OP/OPs DH/Grandma. 

Troubled marriages affect everyone nearby.  It sucks. I just don’t support the idea that these SM posts are directed at OP.

In the past, DILs family picked up the slack but now they can’t. That change may be hard to handle.

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11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

You might want to go back and read the OPs posts. The most recent kerfluffle is the tip of the iceberg and isn’t directed at OP/OPs DH which is probably why DIL was upset by the reply.

I don’t think JAWM means we have to agree with everything that’s said in a thread, just that we provide support. I fully support OP. OP is definitely right in enforcing boundaries/limitations WRT child care. I said that up front. The rest is a marital issue, not about OP/OPs DH/Grandma. 

Troubled marriages affect everyone nearby.  It sucks. I just don’t support the idea that these SM posts are directed at OP.

I can agree they have marital issues…..doesn’t make sense her SM are about her husband.  But I could be reading it all wrong.

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8 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I can agree they have marital issues…..doesn’t make sense her SM are about her husband.  But I could be reading it all wrong.

It always makes sense to look close to home first. Everything else (ILs) is a bonus/complication.  We have no idea what assurances OPs son provided about the kind of support DIL could expect/anticipate with this move.  Part of me wonders if DILs parents aren’t moving b/c they already know this is a disaster in the making. I could totally see myself doing the same.

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9 hours ago, Scarlett said:

I can agree they have marital issues…..doesn’t make sense her SM are about her husband.  But I could be reading it all wrong.

I don't know the exact words in the SM post.  It is possible she meant she doesn't have the support of her family of origin until they move near her.  But I don't think the FIL would have responded as he did if it were worded to clearly mean that.  She may or may not have clumsily worded her post.  Wish an objective third party could give her some helpful advice re SM.

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11 hours ago, Katy said:

Well realistically what's going to happen is she'll leave him and go back to her own family in a different state.  There's no reason to stay with a man who's abandoned your family for a video game. Sooner or later she'll lose respect for him and decide taking half his salary and moving home is preferable to ever dealing with him again.

I would like to point out that it is not that easy when kids are involved. Judges in many places don’t let you just up and take your kids away from other parents. And if she was inclined in the direction of divorce at all why would she leave her FOO and her home state. Of course some of her FOO is moving to current state so no need for her to move away anyway. 

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20 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I would like to point out that it is not that easy when kids are involved. Judges in many places don’t let you just up and take your kids away from other parents. And if she was inclined in the direction of divorce at all why would she leave her FOO and her home state. Of course some of her FOO is moving to current state so no need for her to move away anyway. 

He would have to fight for that. It sounds like he doesn’t want to be a father.  He wants to game and not be hassled with real life. And watching my friends divorces in Florida, courts prefer the mothers there unless fathers are involved.  She’s creating plenty of documentation in a public way that he’s not involved. She may already be planning to divorce him. 

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I looked it up.  Florida just does what’s in the best interest of the child.  Small kids, uninvolved father, the court would probably grant full custody to the mom and allow him visits, and allow her to leave the state IF he fought her on it.  And if he didn’t the court would likely give her full legal custody with no restrictions on moving. That pretty much lines up with my friends experiences too.

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14 minutes ago, Katy said:

He would have to fight for that. It sounds like he doesn’t want to be a father.  He wants to game and not be hassled with real life. And watching my friends divorces in Florida, courts prefer the mothers there unless fathers are involved.  She’s creating plenty of documentation in a public way that he’s not involved. She may already be planning to divorce him. 

This seems really harsh.  Plenty of people play video games for extended hours and still maintain a healthy family life.  Just because his wife has an issue with it doesn't necessarily equate to him not wanting to be a father. We already established that both parents involved sound very childish, entitled, and selfish.  

To me it sounds like the wife's family was overly involved that neither of them really learned how to be parents when things get tough or complicated so they are learning it now or struggling to learn it.

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19 minutes ago, Katy said:

He would have to fight for that. It sounds like he doesn’t want to be a father.  He wants to game and not be hassled with real life. And watching my friends divorces in Florida, courts prefer the mothers there unless fathers are involved.  She’s creating plenty of documentation in a public way that he’s not involved. She may already be planning to divorce him. 

That is a huge leap to assume because he likes to game he doesn't want to be a father.  Or that he would not fight to keep in his kids life if she decided to divorce him.  But I am not sure why we are even discussing this possibility since her parents are moving to where they are.

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I think a lot has been implied about this young couple in this thread that hasn't been stated. 

When my Oldest was little we lived multigenerational with XHs parents for the first year or so... when we moved out it was a tough adjustment. Having additional adults on hand for little moments is a big damn deal (taking a shower isn't a challenge!) They continued to offer enormous amounts of support while XH and I both worked and went to school. Without their anchoring presence in our life, we would have floundered for sure. 

I can see how hard that is for OP's DS and DDIL. 

Now add in a sick child and radical suggestions from the doctor about making another huge change (no daycare - to a mom who WORKS in a day care!) ... I sympathize with them that that is overwhelming and scary. 

I feel that OP has made generous efforts to be supportive within the framework of what is realistic for her health. It is NEVER reasonable to just EXPECT grandparents to provide high levels of regulation childcare. The original situation was unreasonable and now both OP and DS's family are facing a very challenging time with a small sick child.

If I were DIL and had to give up working when I felt it had been a good solution for my family in previous circumstances I'd probably be bitter and frustrated, too and maybe feeling a little trapped. She is thinking "Life was so much easier when we lived with my parents, they were around to help, they were open to whatever help I said I needed (because they already lived in the house with the kids - it isn't that disruptive to watch kids while mom goes out when it doesn't mean a significant change to your routine) the kids were little and less busy and had different needs. And now my baby is having seizures and doctors are saying scary things... and DH's mom well.... she isnt MY mom. I just want my mom and the easier things we had a few months ago"

Yeah I can see that.

OP - you are doing everything you can to be supportive and helpful. I think the other are right about a sit down where you say "I cant do x, but how CAN I help?" And brainstorm together with the kids what you can do. Brainstorming with DH and your parents was thoughtful and generous but a mismatch for their needs. Perhaps if you can sit down together you can find more common needs. Grocery shopping with the kids is challenging - but you arent available to watch the kids... could you pay $10 a month for Instantcart to simplify things? You can watch kids X amount but you can also spend time with all of them or some of them. 

 

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OP—I think you need to maintain the boundaries as is.  This is likely to be a several year thing before the baby has outgrown seizures and needs to be kept away from illness.  It’s generous of you to offer the help, but it’s not a long term solution.  Are you and your husband in a financial position where you could offer to help them afford an in home babysitter?  Someone who will come to the house and watch both kids?

That would help your DIL, who is understandably overwhelmed and frustrated, while protecting your health and maintaining your boundaries.

 

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I started reading this thread feeling like most, that DS and DIL were selfish and entitled. When the bit about DS's gaming came up, I changed my mind. I think DIL is incredibly stressed and frustrated with her H. She does need help. It should be coming from DS.

I'd guess that OP's DS promised his wife that his family would provide the level of support that her family had provided. OP cannot (and should not) do that.

OP, I think that your best strategy is to give DIL as much love, compassion, and (non-physical) support as possible. She needs it as your DS seems to have other priorities. I would not lecture her about social media or anything else. She is going through enough right now. A career, a sick baby, and lack of support. Lecturing her about anything will not go well for you. Moms generally do control the availability of their children to extended family. Plus, given everything on her plate, it's just not the kind thing to do. People DIE from seizures. 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but from the information given on this thread DS is the one who most needs to change his attitude. Coming from me, who also had a husband who was more interested in his me time rather than helping with the youngsters... which greatly contributed to the strained relationship with my in-laws... which led to them not seeing the grands much.

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53 minutes ago, Riverland said:

I started reading this thread feeling like most, that DS and DIL were selfish and entitled. When the bit about DS's gaming came up, I changed my mind. I think DIL is incredibly stressed and frustrated with her H. She does need help. It should be coming from DS.

I'd guess that OP's DS promised his wife that his family would provide the level of support that her family had provided. OP cannot (and should not) do that.

OP, I think that your best strategy is to give DIL as much love, compassion, and (non-physical) support as possible. She needs it as your DS seems to have other priorities. I would not lecture her about social media or anything else. She is going through enough right now. A career, a sick baby, and lack of support. Lecturing her about anything will not go well for you. Moms generally do control the availability of their children to extended family. Plus, given everything on her plate, it's just not the kind thing to do. People DIE from seizures. 

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but from the information given on this thread DS is the one who most needs to change his attitude. Coming from me, who also had a husband who was more interested in his me time rather than helping with the youngsters... which greatly contributed to the strained relationship with my in-laws... which led to them not seeing the grands much.

@stephanier.1765 wrote this:   Yes, there are marital difficulties and have been for a while, even before child #2. I was shocked they were moving here because that would put a lot of distance between her and her family. It's my understanding, though, that her family was part of the problem. 🤷‍♀️ But she's uses my son's faults, I think, as a way to guilt me into the babysitting, as if his faults are my fault. Them not being able to come to an agreement about his gaming time is not my fault but I still feel bad for her.>>>

 

Beyond that I don't see how suddenly everything is her ds's fault and the poor dil deserves nothing but sympathy.  Married people have to figure out their married life.  Separate from that DIL needs to develop her relationship with her inlaws.  I don't see anywhere where @stephanier.1765 plans to lecture her DIL....she has been encouraged by some here to try and get both of them in a room with her and her husband and talk through the babysitting issue and establish kind boundaries about the grandparents ability to help.  I think that is a good idea.  

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