Possible Job Relocation to a Place We Don't Like -Advice please

[Shoeless]

Husband has been vaguely unhappy with his current job for several months.  Not unhappy enough to start an aggressive job search, but unhappy enough that he updated his resume on LinkedIn just to see what would happen. 

He was contacted by Big Tech Firm about a position that would require relocating 1,500 miles away.  He has gone through the initial screening and a phone interview, and Big Tech Firm has invited him to interview in person next month.  There's some exciting things about the position and some less than exciting things.  Husband and I have been doing a Good Cop/Bad Cop thing, where one day he's opposed to moving and I'm cheerleading him, then the next day I'm opposed to moving and he's pointing out all the good that could come from moving. 

In the plus column is a lot of financial incentive, plus DH would get to work for Big Tech Firm on some very interesting projects.  In the negative column is that the job requires us to live in a place that neither of us really want to move to.  DH and I have lived all over the country, from big cities to tiny towns.  We've been everywhere from LA to NYC to Chicago to You-Can't-Find-It-On-A-Map, Tennessee and East-of-No-Where, Texas. I've done multiple cross-country moves in my life, always to places I've never even visited before.  I am definitely not afraid of change or pulling up stakes and trying something new.  But every time I think about putting my house on the market and moving 1500 miles away to a cold, rainy place in January, I burst into tears. I just don't want to go.  I have no idea why I don't want to go other than I just don't. I like where I am living. I don't want to sell my house and give up my chickens.  I like that when I go to the post office, they know my name.  I run into people I know in town all the time.  I know the manager at the grocery store, (his name is Juan and he's the nicest guy!)  I have friends here.  Kiddo seems content here.  We like our dentist and doctors.  Those seem like flimsy reasons to decline a lucrative job.  The only reason I have is "I'm happy where I am".  But I could possibly be happy somewhere else?  The place where Big Tech Firm is located is a desirable area.  Lots of people love living there. Maybe if I go, I'd learn to love it, too?  

How do you make this kind of choice?  My gut is telling me "Don't go. Don't move", but on paper, this looks like a great opportunity.  DH is ambivalent about the location.  He says the job sounds great, but the location is not-great. 

Help? Advice?   

Edited October 23, 2019 by MissLemon

[gardenmom5]

I am very prayerful - I believe God answers prayers.  some people call that their "gut", or their "little voice".  I have learned, when I am doing what I'm supposed to, and study all the pros/cons - then take it to the Lord, He will answer.  One time, during the holidays, dh was unemployed.  we had four little kids. He was interviewing for a very promising and prestigious job.  The way things were going - we knew he would receive and offer, (even though he hadn't yet.)  The impression we both felt was, "turn it down".  It was definitely illogical, but there was a lot of peace in that choice.  yes, it was hard, it made no sense and we certainly didn't know why we were to turn it down, but we were. and we felt peace in doing so.  we went through that holiday season unemployed, after years of start ups and unemployment so our finances had pretty much been destroyed.   Later, we learned this employer closed its doors in a matter of months.

[gardenmom5]

if "big tech firm" with cold rainy January is the seattle area, it's expensive. currently  cheap/AVERAGE 3 bedroom houses near MS are currently going for upwards of $800K.  If you have any issues with SAD - it's gray.    

[klmama]

Life is short. Being happy where you are is worth a lot, even if the pay is less.  Is there any possibility that your dh could find another job in your current area?

[Chris in VA]

I agree with praying and it is good you are willing to go somewhere new, but...

I'd give a lot to be in a place I loved. I know we were supposed to move here, but I am not happy. 

I would stay where you are. I really would. Money isn't everything. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Chris in VA

[HomeAgain]

I almost believe a person could decide to be happy anywhere they put down roots.  Almost.  I had firmer faith in that before we moved back to west-of-nowhere-Texas, and when we did I burst into tears and promptly bought a custom made table to make me feel better about leaving paradise to go there. It's not a response I would recommend (but I do love my table!)

HOWEVER, the area became............doable.  The people were mostly nice as long as we avoided the extremist locals, we found a new groove, and we settled there until something better came along and we moved to a new home.

So I would say if you were accepting of the move, it would be an acceptable place for you to transition to.  If you are firmly against it then moving is going to cause a lot of heartache and displacement and make you feel shaky and start you off on bad footing.  If you don't think you can accept moving, don't do it.

[Laura Corin]

We had to move when Calvin was six months old. Husband had been out of work for a year. It meant the end of my nascent career and leaving behind our dream house. We had to move back to an area that we were already really tired of and where I hated the weather.

It was ok. I made friends. We made money that will help to support us into old age. We later managed to settle somewhere that we really like and I revived my career. We rented out our original house and it still provides income.

Good luck with your decision.

[Calizzy]

We have been in a similar situation. A few years ago dh was discontent at his job and we took an offer in London. The pay was bad, but the job was good for his reputation in his field. I did not want to go. We visited and I just knew it. It was cold, the accommodations were less than we were use to, the pay was bad, no. But we knew it would be food for his career and I knew he was discontent so we went. For us, it was the wrong decision.  We hated it. DH now says that he learned that general family happiness cannot be under valued in a decision like this. There is career and there is family happiness. Don't sacrifice family happiness on the alter of career. 

(I feel strongly based on our bad experience!, of course, ,you could end up loving the place. We just didn't)

[Gobblygook]

If it’s the Big Tech Firm I’m thinking of in Seattle, we made a similar move several years ago and lasted four months before we moved back.

The job was incredibly intense with the company expecting ridiculous hours. There was no such thing as work-life balance.  My DH is a very high performer professionally but he couldn’t handle the stress. I liked the area well enough, but he ended up finding a much less stressful (and less lucrative) job halfway across the country, where our families both lived. 

[ktgrok]

I can say that there is unlikely to be enough money in the world for me to move to the seattle area. It is a known fact in our marriage, despite DH also being in tech. I would die. I would not be simply unhappy, I'd be miserable. 

Taking a job where your DH isn't even positive he'd be happier but where you would almost definitely be less happy seems like a bad decision. 

[MEmama]

Been there, done that. For us, in a way, it was our Big Dream Move, and although the country seemed right the location did not. We knew going in that we wouldn’t stay longer than necessary, though we intended to stay in the new country.

I cannot describe how difficult the transition was, nor the 3 years we lived there. I was so desperate to leave I considered moving back across the border and having DS commute a couple hours a day just to get out of there. BUT, we were in area that offered nothing, it was not like moving to a city or area where I would eventually be able to find what I needed (social support and so on). 

In the end the Bad Location job led to a Great Fit Location job back in US. You never know how these things will turn out. Location is a lot, but so is financial stability and job happiness. Depending on the ages of your kids it could be a fantastic opportunity and adventure, though I agree with a PP to consider staying out if they are high school age. 

Good luck. It’s a tough decision. 

[Lecka]

For me, I would not want to move and it wouldn't be worth it.

BUT ------- my husband has had periods of jobs not being great, that to get to a point, I would rather move just so he is not unhappy (in this situation).  

So I would go off of how unhappy your husband is at his current job and how much he thinks he will like his new job.  

I am happier when my husband is happier.  

My husband tries to make the best of things but there is a big difference in his mood depending on how things are going at work, and I vastly, vastly prefer him to be in a better mood.  

He also might spend several months in that "I kinda don't like it too much" space and then it can get worse to where he really doesn't like it.  

My husband is in the military, so we do move, and his job position will change drastically every 1-3 years.  Some of his job positions he has loved and thrived with, and others he has to make himself get up in the morning.  

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by Lecka

[....]

If it's Seattle, I wouldn't bother going.  My cousin, sister and BIL just fled from there.  It's so expensive to live there that they couldn't actually live IN Seattle, they had to live outside the city and drive two hours in bumper-to-bumper traffic to get into Seattle.  They said traffic is really, really bad. Gardenmom5 mentioned small houses for $800,000....yep, that's what my family members said, too.  I don't know how anyone could even begin to afford a mortgage for $800,000.

I have mostly teenagers, so I refuse to move somewhere where I don't think my kids will thrive as young adults.  I don't want them to get frustrated and move away. 

[Lecka]

It seems like your husband could do more of a job search in locations you would like better, or telecommuting like others have mentioned.  So I think there are more choices open than just ----- this job offer or nothing.  

[Carrie12345]

There are so many variables, I don’t know that I could be any help.

I’m not exactly a frequent relocator.  I grew up in one house from toddlerhood to adulthood. I’ve lived in my current house for over 14 years. I lived 4 other places in the <10 years in between, and they were in the same two states as the first and current! A whole 2 hour radius.

I will say that it took me a full decade to love where I currently live. That was a rough 10 years! And I love it so much that I never want to leave, which is really weird. I can’t say that was necessarily worth it, only that it worked out.

We moved here for financial reasons. We weren’t exactly at risk for starving or being homeless, but things were tight enough to where it was a matter of having a little bit of room to breathe.  That was enough incentive for us.  Today, I wouldn’t move for “just” a bit more breathing room. I suppose I might consider it if it would make us RICH and allow us to do fabulous things and help lots of people. And I’d definitely consider it if we were struggling and it would easily pay the bills. But I wouldn’t do it for a bigger house or a nice annual vacation. KWIM? I’m too happy here for that to persuade me.

(Disclaimer: I do intend to “move”, just not out of the general area. Just in case I actually move at some point and anyone tries to call me out, lol.)

[catz]

20 minutes ago, Lecka said:

It seems like your husband could do more of a job search in locations you would like better, or telecommuting like others have mentioned.  So I think there are more choices open than just ----- this job offer or nothing.  

Agree with this.  If this opportunity just popped up with a resume update online, l’m guessing an actual search focused on areas you would prefer would reap some results. I wouldn’t be making so many concessions on location if you like your area and he has a decent job now. I’d also be careful with higher salaries wooing you in HCOL areas.   My DH works in tech also.  I have at times too.  

Edited October 23, 2019 by FuzzyCatz

[City Mouse]

If he gets offered the job and if he wants to take the job, could he go temporarily on his own? Once he knows if he really like it, then you could work on moving later in the spring or even early summer. That would give you time to adjust gradually.

 

[J-rap]

Fortunately you don't have to make the decision immediately, since his interview isn't til next month.  Your dh might have a better feeling about things once he's there.  Maybe he'll get other interviews at other places by then, too.  I guess I wouldn't worry about it too much now until you have more information to take in.   I agree that in the meantime, he should search for something in areas you know you'd both enjoy.  Would there possibly be anything else in the areas you're presently in?

I also agree with a poster above that you might want to consider your children's futures.  This is something that never occurred to me when our kids were growing up.  Our family lived in a small town where our kids had a lot of neat opportunities and where life seemed really peaceful and simple.  We were very happy there.  But in hind site, I know that my kids would have really thrived in other areas as well -- in fact, probably would have thrived even better, since they're all such go-getters.   Sometimes I feel like we even stunted them by living in our sweet small town, even though there were many beautiful things about it.  

Anyway, just another angle to think about.

[Scarlett]

I find it becomes more difficult to move the older you get.  So there is that.  But also, your kids are very likely to get jobs and marry in the area in which you live when they are teens.....so consider if that is where you want to be long term.  Or if you want to move far away from your young adult children.  

There is more to life than the most money.  But also, we have to be realistic that it takes money to live.   I Know you will consider the much higher cost of living ( if it is Seattle) and the traffic.......

Will you be able to travel with him when he goes for the interview? I think that would be helpful.  

And finally, I would avoid the option of him going ahead and leaving you and the kids behind for any length of time.  That is very very difficult on a marriage.  I know sometimes it is necessary for one reason or another....but should be a last resort.  

Edited October 23, 2019 by Scarlett

[Sneezyone]

Moving is definitely more difficult the older you get. We are frequent movers due to DH's job and will likely move one or two more times before all is said and done. Not all of them were good moves and there are some places I simply will not go. FWIW, My family is from that region. They have horses, chickens, and large plots of land for their dogs to run but they do not live in the city. If living in Seattle is required, that's tough to find BUT if your destination is Bellevue, there are farm lands/ranches to be had and small towns to settle into. It's also a lot less rainy than it used to be. Maybe go and visit so you can see for yourself. If you're still sick over it, don't go.

When DH presents us with options, I have to evaluate the impact on the WHOLE family-- me, DH, DD, and DS. Sometimes one of us loses out so EVERYONE else can be best served. There is rarely a perfect place. We also take turns making those sacrifices. Sometimes it's DH (he hates his current job/base), sometimes it's me (my career), sometimes it's our kids (academic opportunities). We try to do the best we can for the most people and trade off so none of us is overly resentful.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Sneezyone

[bethben]

We moved 1000 miles about four years ago.  We moved from a small town in Minnesota to a booming housing market in Colorado.   My DH had no job and had absolutely no job prospects anywhere close to our home so it became a need to move not want to move situation.   I call Colorado my "people people people" place.  There are TONS of people everywhere.  I rarely see people I know wherever I go.  I don't know my mailman, the produce guy, the librarian, or the owner of the local quaint coffee shop anymore.  My small town was a much more personal and homey feeling.  It sounds like you like that personal touch.  I do miss the small town lifestyle quite a bit.  I am finding that I am staying home more often because I don't want to have to deal with the crowds everywhere I go and the immense amount of traffic.  Also, one thing I have in our new location is sunshine almost daily.  I never realized how gloomy weather affected my mood in the winter.  Having daily sunshine has really helped with what I called the February blues.  

[Kalmia]

We moved 500 miles from the northeast to the pretty-much midwest (probably not technically included in a map of the midwest, but the culture and attitudes are the same). We have not fit in at all. I grew up visiting my grandparents in Michigan (relatively similar to here) and somehow never realized the fundamentally different ways people interact in the midwest vs the northeast. I'll not say one is better than another, they are just completely different cultures, and we are not going to assimilate. It is also depressingly flat (we are mountain people) and cloudy pretty much all year here (seriously depressing) and there is no ocean. We also moved from a rural area to a small city and I hate the traffic and can detect the air pollution and can no longer see the stars. It is also a 6-10 hour drive to see any of our friends or family so that isn't happening half as much as I thought it would. The job was also not as great as it was made out to be. So we are waiting the two years (6 months left!) until we can sell the house without any taxes on the profits so we can go home. I have already told my husband that I will stay married to him forever, I am happy to take vacations anywhere, but I am never living anywhere but New England again so that should end his frequent job hopping.

[AFwife Claire]

Echoing all the other posters talking about Seattle . . . you couldn't pay me enough to move there.

My brother and his family moved there summer of 2018 from TX to take a much higher-paying tech job. Like others have said, he currently works absolutely ridiculous hours, gets just a few hours of sleep a night, and is really struggling with the commute and just the pressure of the job.

Also, and this may not be a factor for your dh, but my brother feels stressed by how extremely and militantly liberal the culture is.  He has said several times that he doesn't feel comfortable having people know that he is a Christian for fear of reprisal, not necessarily outright, but subtle. He feels like he can't let anyone he works with really "know" him, so he feels very isolated.  Add to that all the grayness, and he is ready to get out of there.

My sister-in-law is more comfortable there.  They found a great church, and so she has friends and a support group.  Their kids are in a small Christian school (public school was absolutely not an option, and she didn't want to homeschool), but it only goes up through 8th grade.  They are planning to move before my oldest niece is high school age.  

Honestly, it sounds like a miserable place to be.  I just talked to my brother last night, and the conversation cemented my desire to never, ever, live there!

[Scarlett]

I have a friend who married a man from Seattle. They have been married a long time ...20 years at least....at one point they moved to Las Vegas to escape the dreariness. But went back home after several years.  Family is important . 

[prairiewindmomma]

Trust your gut.

Have him look at the churn rate. Tech always has a high turnover, but some companies burn through employees (like an average stint is 9 months). The salary structure is set up with a large % of compensation coming as stock that needs time to vest....as a golden chain to try to keep you there. People go there because it’s a recognizable name on a resume—but the hours and lifestyle at the big 4 are much better suited for a 20something than a 40-50yo someone. 

You sound tied to the area. I’d look at remote work opportunities first.

[Sneezyone]

6 hours ago, Seasider too said:

It takes a lot of energy and time to build solid support systems (ime a year or two). Doctors, grocery, New friends, church. The thought of that was always daunting, but overcomable. 

Having been a frequent relocator,  in addition to praying much about it, I recommend you try to imagine where your kids will be when they are in high school. Which location will give them the best opportunities for educational and social experiences? For higher education/college without paying out-of-state tuition somewhere?  A place you might like to retire in case the kids love it and get married and your grandkids might live there?  Where healthcare is readily available and support for senior citizens is healthy and abundant? I cannot see the ages of your children in your signature line, but if they are in or approaching middle school, these are really things to think about. I wouldn’t have guessed that when my kids were little, but they came into play before I knew it. It’s just hard to move a child once they reach high school age. 

 

This is us. I have to say, I loved living in the city with my littles. We lived in a park so there was TONS of green space and wild blackberries for the picking. We could be into downtown on a CLEAN city bus, riding the monorail and seeing the sights at the museum and space needle in under 20 minutes. The children's theater was there too so we saw several kiddie shows. I didn't need a car to do it either. That said, our location was incredible and would be unaffordable for us today. Our old home is well over $2 mil now and it's only been 10 years. If we'd been able to stay, my kids would be able to attend any kind of school they wanted and be less than 30 minutes away. Plus, unlike OP, we have lots of family nearby. There's a HUGE evangelical church or two not far from downtown too so, yeah, it depends on where you are, how you live, your income and expectations.

[EKS]

I have to wonder if most of the people who are saying how horrible the Seattle area is have actually lived there.

The fact is, it is gorgeous here three seasons a year--four when it snows.

That said, the high cost of living is an issue (as it is in most places where the tech industry has taken off), as is the homeless situation.  And then there's the traffic.  But the weather is just fine.

[Clemsondana]

This is such a hard thing - I've moved several times, enjoyed every place I've been, been sad to leave friends but usually excited about the new adventure...but I'd really struggle to leave where we are now.  We've always had in the back of our minds how we'd like to be situated if we had no restrictions (near family, somewhere not freezing to a person who thinks temperatures in the 70s might require a sweater, a little bit of land), and we're close enough to what we want that it would be a struggle to relocate to most places, especially tech environments because they are crowded and expensive...and I really don't like traffic and crowds and constant busy around me. 

But, we've made some trade-offs to be here.  Husband works for a company with lots of telecomuters, but part of that is that he has to travel frequently to different locations to meet with people either where there is a group or at the company's main site.  Sometimes he's only gone once/month, but other months he's gone M-F 3 different weeks.  He's also accepted that his career advancement will likely be slower, or at least different, than it would be if he had more face-to-face time with higher-ups.  That being said, he made a job change in the past few years because he was really unhappy.  Fortunately, he was able to do a similar telecomute/travel hybrid for both jobs because neither of us wanted to move, but he really struggled with just how miserable he was willing to be before he had to change jobs if a relocation was required.  

[happi duck]

Dh works for a big company with lots of offices.  We used to live in the pnw.  Many people who transferred in eventually transferred out due to the weather.  I got used to the rain but I don't miss it at all!

[Arcadia]

56 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

The salary structure is set up with a large % of compensation coming as stock that needs time to vest....as a golden chain to try to keep you there.

 

Almost half my husband’s pay is restricted stock units so our AGI looks decent but the take home pay is not much. People tend to change companies every two to four years when they have vested all their RSUs. 

My husband was offered a relocation to Bellevue and Seattle. After working there on a business trip, he rather stay put here. Cost of living is less of an issue because we have always lived in high cost areas. 

As for small town feel and big city feel, my healthcare center in Stanford campus has plenty of staff (chemotherapy, radiation) that remembers my name and that I have teens but not the Los Gatos center (though there is one staff there that is wonderful). I have always stayed in larger cities and I think it’s possible to have that small town feeling of people knowing your name and preferences. My usual UPS guy remembers my condo unit number within months. My local supermarket staff remembers me (I do walk there often). Some of the public bus drivers remembers me and would wait at the interchange (transit center) for me and my kids to run to the bus bay to board. So it’s really hard to say whether someone would find kindred spirits more easily in small towns or big cities.  

[Arcadia]

We didn’t want to relocate to Malta, NY many years ago partially due to the weather and partially due to lack of public transport. So we choose to go for unemployment if my husband could not find another job before the relocate or be retrenched deadline.

Another factor was that my cousin has friends here that would have helped me if anything happens to my husband. It would be really hard for them to help if we are all the way in New York. 

When my husband was unhappy with his job, he would start actively job hunting. He either finds something he likes or he realizes after a day of job interview that the dept culture of the job he is interviewing for doesn’t suit him and it would be like jumping from the pot into the fire. 

I have taken a pay cut before to move from a toxic workplace to a much nicer workplace. I was able to do so at that time because it was before kids and I could make up the income difference by tutoring or other side hustles if I needed to.

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, EKS said:

I have to wonder if most of the people who are saying how horrible the Seattle area is have actually lived there.

The fact is, it is gorgeous here three seasons a year--four when it snows.

That said, the high cost of living is an issue (as it is in most places where the tech industry has taken off), as is the homeless situation.  And then there's the traffic.  But the weather is just fine.

Well, i now get SAD in the fall/winter in Florida, so pretty sure Seattle would not be fine for me. 

[GoodGrief]

My daughter attended UW Seattle and stayed a couple years after graduation with her husband. They left to find a place with more affordable housing and less traffic (he's a truck driver.) Seattle is cool in a lot of ways, but unless you can afford to live close in, or work from home and avoid the commute, it's going to be rough. That traffic is painful.

They are loving their new location with a more laid back vibe and sunny climate :-)

I would not mind Seattle if I was compensated enough to live closer in, I suppose. I can usually like something about most places.

[EKS]

3 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

Well, i now get SAD in the fall/winter in Florida, so pretty sure Seattle would not be fine for me. 

My understanding is that SAD has more to do with sunlight than with weather.  And you're right--it gets pretty dim up here around the solstice.

[Lawyer&Mom]

We moved to Seattle for BigTech and loved it so much we stayed.  (You guys are really hard on this town!)  Green, beautiful, more reasonably priced than San Francisco.  Seattle proper is very liberal, but the surrounding suburbs each have their own feel.  (You want evangelical Christian homeschoolers, we have them!)

[Happy2BaMom]

Relocation is hard, harder when you don't want to leave where you are at. You all sound quite content there...I think a huge move would be a much bigger deal than you realize. So I'd probably vote for listening to your gut.

That being said, I lived in the Seattle area for nearly 15 years (I've been gone for a few years, but still have a lot of family there & visit often). The biggest downside is the cost of living and, due to that, the traffic (as people push further out for cheaper digs). It is not that less expensive than San Fran. Other than that, I *love* Seattle. You can be outside nearly every day of the year - the average high is January is something like 40 or 45 and freezing temps are rare. While it's gray a lot, the temps are moderate, and the rain is more drizzle than downpour (although you can get downpours). There are mountains *everywhere*. Puget Sound is beautiful, the San Juan Islands and Vancouver, BC are a few hours away and there is *so* much to see and do. And the greater metropolitan area is 4 million people. You can find your tribe. Yes, some places will be militantly liberal. And some (yes, even in western WA) will be militantly conservative. The idea that you can't live in an area of 4 million people because some people are militantly this or that is rather.....overly-sensitive.

However, if the Big Tech is Microsoft or Amazon, well, as a tech friend of mine says, "Those are good places to be *from*". Meaning they are good resume builders but most people don't stay longer than they have to. Hours & working conditions at both places tend to be pretty harsh, although perhaps Microsoft is mellowing a bit these days.

Best of luck.

Edited October 24, 2019 by Happy2BaMom

[Lawyer&Mom]

I don’t know if Microsoft is mellow, but it’s *way* mellower than Amazon.... 

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, EKS said:

My understanding is that SAD has more to do with sunlight than with weather.  And you're right--it gets pretty dim up here around the solstice.

Yeah, I should have clarified it was the sunlight. I can't move to the northeast/midwest either. But the cloud cover also blocks the light, so weather is a factor in that sense. Ask my family what I'm like after more than 2 days of cloudy/rainy weather in a row - I'm not a nice person. 

[Guest]

I think chickens and a dentist and personable grocer are really good reasons to stay put, not flimsy ones. 

I am also big on listening to my gut...

[BeachGal]

One of the healthiest things a person can do/have is to feel embedded and connected within a community. I think your reasons for staying are very good. Moving for better opportunities and pay make sense, too. Not an easy decision to make.

[Carol in Cal.]

Most of the time when we travel I go “This is a nice place; I could live here.”

There are two exceptions, and one of them is Eureka.  (Although I love that little Victorian town south of Eureka that is sunnier.). I don’t love sunshine, but I can’t stand high dreariness, and I know I would get depressed there because it’s like that so much of the time.  Exciting clouds moving in and out—great.  Fog with wind—fine.  Rain—great.  Sunshine—great.  High dreariness where you can barely see where the sun even is would probably be intolerable.  Is where you’re going like that?  Because I think having a couple of show stoppers in an otherwise wide open set of options is perfectly reasonable.

[mom@shiloh]

We've moved quite a bit and I always enjoyed the adventure of it -- new places, new people, new challenges. I got to a point though, where I just wanted to put down roots and stay where we were. All those familiar things you mentioned -- they're nice. Unless your dh is really unhappy and really needs this change, I'd stay where you are. 

[gardenmom5]

 seattle/Bellevue made the list of 25 cities where an income of $100K - is 'broke'.

Edited October 24, 2019 by gardenmom5

[Shoeless]

Thank you, everyone, for your replies.  

We would not be able to rent out our current home because we bought it with a VA loan.  The terms of the loan state the home must be used as our primary residence.  I would have to refinance to be able to rent it out and my current mortgage rate is very low.  We'd have to refinance to a higher rate to rent it, which seems like madness. 

The company is Amazon and yes, one of the locations they offered us was Seattle.  We were also offered a position near Arlington, VA.  Arlington is a great place, but Amazon has stipulations on how far away we would be allowed to live from Arlington or Seattle, which still means expensive housing in either location.  The position is for a government contract that requires a high level security clearance.  If something goes wrong at 2 am, you have to be able to get to the office very quickly.  There is no remote work option for that position at all because of security issues, and all work is to be done in Amazon's secure facility.  All of that just adds to the stress of working for an already high-stress company.  The process for the security clearance takes 18 months to complete, so DH would be working on commercial projects until the clearance comes through.  The friends I know who have been through the clearance process all describe it as "invasive".  Great!  A demanding employer in a HCOL area AND the federal government picking through the last 10 years of our lives, plus interviewing our friends, relatives, and ex-spouses.  Sounds terrific! 😕 

The whole situation just feels like a LOT. How do people afford these houses? Who are these people that are moving into $750,000 houses like it's no big deal? 

[Shoeless]

17 hours ago, Plum said:

It’s definitely hard to live somewhere that doesn’t feel like home. The weather feels wrong. The landscape feels wrong. 

Yes! I have lived in a lot of places that were not "home".  They were fun, and it was an adventure, but I never lost the feeling I was not "home".  I always felt a little like I was borrowing someone else's life. And yes, the weather felt wrong and the sun came in at an odd angle.  Everything felt off. 

[Shoeless]

11 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Almost half my husband’s pay is restricted stock units so our AGI looks decent but the take home pay is not much. People tend to change companies every two to four years when they have vested all their RSUs.  

Yep, this is exactly what is being offered: Lots of RSUs, average base pay, hefty sign on/retention bonus paid out over 2 years. There's also talk of an extra bonus for maintaining Top Secret security clearance, but doing some digging on reddit and blind, that "bonus" may just be in the form of more RSUs that need time to vest and not actual cash in the paycheck. Neat trick. 

[gardenmom5]

5 hours ago, MissLemon said:

  The process for the security clearance takes 18 months to complete, so DH would be working on commercial projects until the clearance comes through.  The friends I know who have been through the clearance process all describe it as "invasive".  Great!  A demanding employer in a HCOL area AND the federal government picking through the last 10 years of our lives, plus interviewing our friends, relatives, and ex-spouses.  Sounds terrific! 😕 

The whole situation just feels like a LOT. How do people afford these houses? Who are these people that are moving into $750,000 houses like it's no big deal? 

for a clearance - they're also talking to previous employers.  dd worked on gov't projects when she was at MS. she was the only one of her "group" who obtained the clearance (hers took about six months?.)  however, while going through the process - one of her previous employers lied.  nearly cost her the clearance (and her job), but the FBI agent doing the work went out of his way to find out what was going on because the answer was so out of sorts with everything else coming back.    We have a family friend who is an employment lawyer - and we basically had him on standby.   

tech is driving prices here, think of us as "bay area north".  it's much more complex than that though.  some of it is caused by local gov't land use mandates.

amazon has changed plans from dt-seattle to Bellevue. (south lake union/seattle campus isn't going anywhere.)  they're actually subleasing-out a building under construction dt-seattle for which they only recently signed a very long lease, since they no longer want move into it.  (thank kshama sawant.)  They're now building in multiple locations in downtown Bellevue.   

then the factoid of - when newspapers/agencies do these "this is how much it costs" spreads . . . they are generous with how much their hypothetical person spends on things - and how many things they buy.  think about all the articles about "this is how much it costs to have kids."

 

[ktgrok]

6 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Thank you, everyone, for your replies.  

We would not be able to rent out our current home because we bought it with a VA loan.  The terms of the loan state the home must be used as our primary residence.  I would have to refinance to be able to rent it out and my current mortgage rate is very low.  We'd have to refinance to a higher rate to rent it, which seems like madness. 

The company is Amazon and yes, one of the locations they offered us was Seattle.  We were also offered a position near Arlington, VA.  Arlington is a great place, but Amazon has stipulations on how far away we would be allowed to live from Arlington or Seattle, which still means expensive housing in either location.  The position is for a government contract that requires a high level security clearance.  If something goes wrong at 2 am, you have to be able to get to the office very quickly.  There is no remote work option for that position at all because of security issues, and all work is to be done in Amazon's secure facility.  All of that just adds to the stress of working for an already high-stress company.  The process for the security clearance takes 18 months to complete, so DH would be working on commercial projects until the clearance comes through.  The friends I know who have been through the clearance process all describe it as "invasive".  Great!  A demanding employer in a HCOL area AND the federal government picking through the last 10 years of our lives, plus interviewing our friends, relatives, and ex-spouses.  Sounds terrific! 😕 

The whole situation just feels like a LOT. How do people afford these houses? Who are these people that are moving into $750,000 houses like it's no big deal? 

The people DH knows who work there are almost always single and young and willing to live in a tiny tiny apartment or rent a room in a house in order to have the job experience. When they are ready to settle down and get married or have kids they quit and work/live somewhere else. 

[Jaybee]

7 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Thank you, everyone, for your replies.  

We would not be able to rent out our current home because we bought it with a VA loan.  The terms of the loan state the home must be used as our primary residence.  I would have to refinance to be able to rent it out and my current mortgage rate is very low.  We'd have to refinance to a higher rate to rent it, which seems like madness. 

The company is Amazon and yes, one of the locations they offered us was Seattle.  We were also offered a position near Arlington, VA.  Arlington is a great place, but Amazon has stipulations on how far away we would be allowed to live from Arlington or Seattle, which still means expensive housing in either location.  The position is for a government contract that requires a high level security clearance.  If something goes wrong at 2 am, you have to be able to get to the office very quickly.  There is no remote work option for that position at all because of security issues, and all work is to be done in Amazon's secure facility.  All of that just adds to the stress of working for an already high-stress company.  The process for the security clearance takes 18 months to complete, so DH would be working on commercial projects until the clearance comes through.  The friends I know who have been through the clearance process all describe it as "invasive".  Great!  A demanding employer in a HCOL area AND the federal government picking through the last 10 years of our lives, plus interviewing our friends, relatives, and ex-spouses.  Sounds terrific! 😕 

The whole situation just feels like a LOT. How do people afford these houses? Who are these people that are moving into $750,000 houses like it's no big deal? 

We've lived a lot of places, so have moved lots of times. I'm not crazy about where we are now, but it's not too bad, and we were not really settled in where we moved from--though we wanted to settle there, just no job. Generally, I'm pretty up for adventure. But reading the above does not sound appealing to me. Maybe it's just my personality where I prefer a more laid-back lifestyle. My dh enjoys being busy and is a very hard worker, but neither of us would enjoy the kinds of pressure this sounds like. Maybe I'm too ignorant about what is available in high-paying tech fields, but we don't want to be "owned" by a company. It also sounds like the financial benefits might not actually end up being near as much as they seem, once everything is figured in. I'm pretty sure we'd keep looking, and hopefully find something in the area where we already loved living. There's a lot of value in what you have mentioned you have there. I don't want to be a downer; I'm just looking at it through our personalities and preferences.

[Arcadia]

7 hours ago, MissLemon said:

Yep, this is exactly what is being offered: Lots of RSUs, average base pay, hefty sign on/retention bonus paid out over 2 years. 

The vested RSUs do count into the AGI and they are a pain during income tax filing because we end up owing some federal tax each year. People do sell their RSUs to use as downpayment for houses. Many of my friends with spouse working for Google sold their RSUs and use it on paying down their mortgage.

What you would need to consider is if the base pay is enough for your family’s financial needs after all the RSU has vested or would your husband need to find another job. The base pay is enough for us for food and shelter, but not enough for us to go from a one bedroom condo to a two bedroom condo because the mortgage would still be painful even if we sell this one to downpay mortgage on a bigger condo. My teens are high schoolers so we are also calculating future college cost in on whether mortgage payments would be doable or a stretch.

7 hours ago, MissLemon said:

. How do people afford these houses? Who are these people that are moving into $750,000 houses like it's no big deal? 

SF Bay Area relocating from here to Bellevue doesn’t feel that much more of a financial strain since they are used to high rents and mortgages. A couple we know rented near downtown Seattle, double income no kids.