How Many Chances Should Misbehaving Kids be Given?

[wendyroo]

We just got home from open swim at our local swim school.  It is an hour of play time in the pool during which parents must be in the water with their children...though there is, of course, a life guard closely supervising.

When we got there, we had to wait a few minutes, and I had a bad feeling right off the bat.  A boy (I soon learned his name was J and he was 9 years old) was running around the waiting area shoving little kids out of his path.  The front desk staff told him several times not to run (this is a posted rule), but at most he slowed down fractionally, and even that only lasted until he rounded a corner and took off at full speed once again.

To be fair, I observed that J's mother certainly had her hands full.  Along with J, she also had a 4 year old (who was also running around unsupervised and not listening to the staff), a 2 year old (who was howling like a banshee), and a young-ish baby (perhaps 6 months old).

As soon as we entered the pool area (with J and his sister pushing past the line to get in first), J jumped into the pool in a no-jumping area.  The life guard reminded J, by name, of the rules.  Over the course of the hour, J would be reprimanded about 5 more times for the same infraction.  That behavior, however, did not impact me or mine; I took note of it simply because I quickly learned to keep a close eye on J at all times.

Repeatedly J interacted with my kids in ways that were dangerous, against the rules, and which he had been asked (by the kids, by me, and by the life guard) to stop.  He thought it was hilarious to come up behind people and shove them by the shoulders underwater.  My older boys, being his closest age mates, took the brunt of this "play", but he also did it several times to both his little sisters and to my toddler - all of whom were wearing life jackets, so it wasn't a safety issue, but they all expressed their displeasure in no uncertain terms. 

He repeatedly swam up under the foam ride-on toys while other kids, including mine, were on them and flipped them over (against the rules).  He had an underwater go pro camera with him (which I was surprised was allowed) that he kept hurling at people across the pool.  Again he was told to stop over and over (by the life guard, never his mother), but no further action was ever taken. 

It felt to me and my kids that we could not escape J, because as soon as we would swim to the other end of the pool to try to stay out of his way, he would follow us.  Eventually I started firmly reprimanding J myself and actually stopping his hands whenever he tried to touch one of my kids: "J, keep your hands to yourself!  They DO NOT want to be pushed underwater!"  It was miserable.

I just don't know what the right answer is.  I know that when one of my kids repeatedly demonstrates that he is not capable of behaving appropriately in a group setting (which happens with depressing frequency due to their mental health challenges), that I feel it is my responsibility to remove them...even if that means the rest of my kids have to miss out as well.  But J's mother clearly did not feel the same way or perhaps did not have the energy or willpower to make it happen.

In your opinion, what responsibility does the swim school have?  The life guard was being very vigilant, so I never feared for my kids' lives or anything, but it felt like he needed to step in and be more proactive with J when it became clear that J's mother either wouldn't or couldn't keep him in line.  Then again, if he shifts to dealing with J, then he clearly won't be paying as much attention to the other swimmers.

Thoughts?

Edited August 21, 2018 by wendyroo

[vonfirmath]

After that many reminders, the pools we went to would have pulled the kid out of the pool, found his parent, and told him to come back another day when he can obey the rules.  If it happens multiple days, the suspension is extended.

[Amy in NH]

I would complain to the administrator of the pool.  The kid should have been kicked out.

[wendyroo]

9 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

and asked him where his mother is.

There was never any question about where the mother was.  It isn't that big of a pool; she was always nearby and often watching the offenses and reprimands take place.  I only saw her try to talk to J once, and he splashed her and the baby in the faces, laughed, and swam away while she sputtered.  The problem wasn't that she was being inattentive (though she was letting her little kids get WAY further from her then I am comfortable with), but rather that she seemed unable or disinclined to do anything about the issue.

[Annie G]

Paragraph five- where he put his hands on your kids and pushed them under water-that is the line.  The lifeguard wasn’t solving the problem so at that point I would have left the pool and found someone in charge.  It’s not too late- you can call and speak to someone. 

‘I feel for the woman with her hands full but it’s not reasonable to tolerate that behavior, especially when it didn’t end after lifeguard warning the kid. 

[Terabith]

His mother should have removed him.  The pool should have removed him. Ridiculous.  I’m so sorry!

[gardenmom5]

that age and action, one warning - next time they're out of the pool.

taking them to their mom (who is supposed to be there, but isn't)  and telling her to take her kid home (because she couldn't bother to supervise), or at least keep him with her - elsewhere - would be appropriate.   if  someone doens't want to be that harsh - I'd make him sit on the side for *minimum* 5- 10 minutes before giving him one more chance. (and increasing the time each time.)

[SKL]

I agree that he should have been kicked out and sent home.  I'm sorry his mom has so much to do, but swimming doesn't seem to be realistic for them right now. 

[Arcadia]

The lifeguard on duty should have buzzed (walkie talkie) the pool or center manager and let the manager handle this disciplinary issue. 

The swim school does have liability because it is letting someone break the rules. 

[happi duck]

At our public pool it would be a warning then sitting out then kicked out.

That's insane that it was allowed.

[Katy]

Yeah, if you see that behavior persist again after one warning I would immediately get out of the pool, take the kids with me, and go find a supervisor or manager.  If they refused to help the lifeguard with the disciplinary issue I would state I'd expect a refund and possibly, depending on the manager's attitude, warn them I would be contacting the police and/or local media. Drowning is the #1 cause of death for small children, and I don't take safety concerns at pools lightly.  I seriously doubt the media would either. I figure if I'm a bigger pain in the rear that avoiding dealing with the kid, it's more likely to get addressed.  And if safety concerns are repeatedly ignored, we would post negative reviews online and change memberships to a pool where it commonsense safety regulations and anti-harassment rules are enforced.

[LMD]

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

I also wanted to say when I had a 4 yr old, a 2yr old, and a baby, I NEVER took them to the pool by myself.  Not even the kiddy pool.  There were just too many of them for me to safely supervise.  Even now, my kids are 9, 7, and 5 and I won't have them in a pool that is more than ankle height without another adult specifically there to watch them with me.  Which means DH when we are at a neighborhood pool, so we only go on weekends.  When at my mom's or staying in a hotel, at least one other adult comes with if all 3 kids are going.  If it's just the older two, I *MIGHT* consider going just me.  Depends on the pool situation.  

 

I agree, I had ages 8, 6, 3 & newborn. It wasn't until newborn was age 3-4ish that I could do the pool on my own, just. Yes, that's a lot of time that we couldn't go to the pool without another adult (or the library, or the museum, or the zoo, or... you get the idea). That's life. I get being tired and overwhelmed and needing to just not see the behaviour for 5 minutes, but you don't do that at a pool for goodness sake! Now I have ages 13, 11, 8 & almost 5, I can do the pool, but I am still not relaxing at the pool!

I would have expected that child's fun day to end the first time they pushed someone under the water. I would expect the lifeguard to march said child to his mother and tell her to take him home, now.

[Murphy101]

Honestly I’d have been really loud and angry about it after the first offense. So I’m going to say 2 chances. That’s it. One warning to knock it off and if they did it again I’d be super pissed. 

I have about 20 seconds of patience for physical aggression even out of the pool and about .2 for in the pool.

I’d tell the life guard this is ridiculous and to enforce the pool rules. (I’d strive for a nicer telling though ?) If no one complained to the guard, he probably decided no one must mind that much and he didn’t want to deal with confronting the mom. Or her kid. 

[LMD]

I am trying to muster up sympathy for a struggling mom and wondering what I'd do. Maybe offer to watch the 2 year old while she deals with the misbehaviour? Maybe offer to share some food with the kids (anything to keep misbehaving kid out of the water)? Ask mom if she needed help carrying their bags to the car so she can wrangle the kids easier?

I would definitely reprimand said child myself. I've done it before, not at a pool but at a playcentre, the family left pretty quickly after that...

[Murphy101]

I don’t care how many kids she has. Btdt. Either handle it or stay home. By necessity and a desperate desire to stay sane, I bloody darn well handled it. But some days I had to accept it wasn’t working hand it was time to pack up and go home.

[unsinkable]

1 hour ago, happi duck said:

At our public pool it would be a warning then sitting out then kicked out.

That's insane that it was allowed.

Ours, too.

Verbal warning, then sit down, then gone for the day. And the pool manager would have talked to him when he came back, before he would be allowed back in the pool.

All the boy in Wendy's pool learned was he can do anything he wants with no consequences.

Edited August 21, 2018 by unsinkable
2 As in manager

[happypamama]

I miiiiiight be inclined to give up to two or three chances, depending on the situation.  One or two would be better.  The pool should have been enforcing the rules if the mom wasn't.  So sorry you had to deal with that!

[Pen]

In a pool safety situation: one.  And running plus shoving others is 2 violations, so past warning into time out    

@wendyroo I think you should contact the pool administrator  — it could save someone’s life  .  Or save someone from literally a broken neck  .  Including possibly J himself    These are not minor disobedience situations and it seems that the lifeguard knowing J by name it wasn’t the first day it has ever happened either   

If you are in the situation again with J acting like that it might be useful to call the police,  since shoving near a pool and holding people underwater are violent acts of aggression  assault and battery, reckless disregard, ...

unless I have misunderstood your post, I would certainly not let my children be at a pool with J around  

 

 

 

[Pen]

@wendyroo “Misbehaving” in title suggests much less dangerous behavior than you describe. 

[bolt.]

I think the swim school has the responsibility to repeatedly remind him of the rules (with kind professionalism) for the entire duration. At some point (during or after the visit) they might begin returning him to his parent and describing the problem. This tends to be a real attention-getter for both parent and child. I also think a time out is a good idea.

There is a point where I think the parent should be asked to help him improve or not return — maybe after 2 or 3 visits with no improvement?

Edited August 21, 2018 by bolt.

[Farrar]

In general, I think misbehaving kids should get lots of chances in life. They're kids. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't lose a privilege, especially in the moment, if that makes sense. Like, J, you're gone from the pool. But try again tomorrow. And if it's every day for a week. See you in a week. And so forth. It's trying for us as adults to always give more chances, but I do think kids deserve it. So I guess my philosophy is fewer chances in the moment, lots of chances in the long run.

In a safety situation like this, the kid should be gone. I don't have an exact number of infractions, but by that point. I won't comment on the mom, but the pool staff should have insisted that they leave. The reminders should have stopped going to J at some point and someone should have said to mom, "I see you've got your hands full, but his behavior endangers other kids and makes the pool unpleasant for all. If he continues, we will ask you all to leave." And then have them leave when it continues.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Farrar

[wendyroo]

Just now, bolt. said:

I think the swim school has the responsibility to repeatedly remind him of the rules (with kind professionalism) for the entire duration. At some point (during or after the visit) they might begin returning him to his parent and describing the problem. This tends to be a real attention-getter for both parent and child.

There is a point where I think the parent should be asked to help him improve or not return — maybe after 2 or 3 visits with no improvement?

This is the problem.  The life guard was watching him like a hawk and reminding him of the rules every single time.  However, the parent was right there watching almost every event (including both the behavior and the reminder) and she never did anything.  Her 2 and 4 year olds were in life jackets and she was largely giving them the run of the pool (in fact her 2 year old kept getting out and trying to leave the pool area and the life guard kept bringing her back to her mom).  Pretty much the only time she was near them is when J headed in their direction.  She tried to stay relatively close to J while carrying the baby around (with no life jacket).  When J was jumping in the pool, flipping kids off the toys, dunking kids under water, etc, the mom was normally within 10ish feet watching the whole thing...but she didn't say anything and she didn't do anything.  I'm not even sure what she could have done to stop him since she was carrying around an infant in 4 feet of water.

That is actually what made it seem so awkward for me to reprimand J.  I couldn't really say, "let's find your mom and tell her what happened" when she saw the whole thing!!  When J dunked my toddler under (and to be fair, I didn't see him "hold" any kids under water; he was just shoving/tugging them down and darting away), she bobbed up and started screaming.  I looked incredulously at J's mom, who was only 5 or 6 feet away, and she avoided eye contact.

[Pen]

 As to the pool 

3 hours ago, wendyroo said:

In your opinion, what responsibility does the swim school have?  The life guard was being very vigilant, so I never feared for my kids' lives or anything, but it felt like he needed to step in and be more proactive with J when it became clear that J's mother either wouldn't or couldn't keep him in line.  Then again, if he shifts to dealing with J, then he clearly won't be paying as much attention to the other swimmers.

 

What did you sign as to assuming risks?  

No matter how vigilant the lifeguard was being, a few seconds too long of being forced underwater, a head hit on edge of pool can have lifelong impact. It can happen totally by accident that someone is severely injured around a pool, but this sounds like repeated deliberately dangerous behavior on the part of J. 

I think it sounds sad that he is not being effectively stopped . 

[bolt.]

5 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

This is the problem.  The life guard was watching him like a hawk and reminding him of the rules every single time.  However, the parent was right there watching almost every event (including both the behavior and the reminder) and she never did anything.  Her 2 and 4 year olds were in life jackets and she was largely giving them the run of the pool (in fact her 2 year old kept getting out and trying to leave the pool area and the life guard kept bringing her back to her mom).  Pretty much the only time she was near them is when J headed in their direction.  She tried to stay relatively close to J while carrying the baby around (with no life jacket).  When J was jumping in the pool, flipping kids off the toys, dunking kids under water, etc, the mom was normally within 10ish feet watching the whole thing...but she didn't say anything and she didn't do anything.  I'm not even sure what she could have done to stop him since she was carrying around an infant in 4 feet of water.

That is actually what made it seem so awkward for me to reprimand J.  I couldn't really say, "let's find your mom and tell her what happened" when she saw the whole thing!!  When J dunked my toddler under (and to be fair, I didn't see him "hold" any kids under water; he was just shoving/tugging them down and darting away), she bobbed up and started screaming.  I looked incredulously at J's mom, who was only 5 or 6 feet away, and she avoided eye contact.

I think it would have been harder to ignore the lifeguard saying, “Mrs. Smith, I’m bringing J to you because he has been dunking others. It’s important that he stop doing that.” (And repeating versions with escalation, ie, “Please keep him with arm’s reach.” // “If this continues, we will ask your family to leave.” Etc.) — just because she saw him do it, and saw him corrected doesn’t mean that she saw her role appropriately. It may be that she thinks the lifeguard’s reprimand is enough intervention.

[Pen]

16 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

e saw the whole thing!!  When J dunked my toddler under (and to be fair, I didn't see him "hold" any kids under water; he was just shoving/tugging them down and darting away), she bobbed up and started screaming.  I looked incredulously at J's mom, who was only 5 or 6 fee

 

Not “holding” is better— makes me change my mind perhaps about police if boy also did not do any dangerous shoving — but the situation still sounds unreasonably dangerous. 

 

[alisoncooks]

I hate confrontation, but I think I would've had to wade over to mom and firmly say, "J needs to stop touching my children. They do not like how he's playing."  If she wants to excuse it, I'd probably go to "If he does this again, I'm speaking to pool management."

[Ausmumof3]

Definitely not that many in a pool situation.  We did do pool with kids that age though rarely.  My kids knew up front that it was a less safe situation and they had to follow my rules exactly or we would leave. I would hold the baby, dd had a life jacket and I held the strap and ds stayed within the area I told him he was allowed in.  We had no aircon it was the only way to survive a hell of a summer.  But if the kids had misbehaved we still would have been out of there!  Especially with pools safety is priority.

[Katy]

40 minutes ago, wendyroo said:

This is the problem.  The life guard was watching him like a hawk and reminding him of the rules every single time.  However, the parent was right there watching almost every event (including both the behavior and the reminder) and she never did anything.  Her 2 and 4 year olds were in life jackets and she was largely giving them the run of the pool (in fact her 2 year old kept getting out and trying to leave the pool area and the life guard kept bringing her back to her mom).  Pretty much the only time she was near them is when J headed in their direction.  She tried to stay relatively close to J while carrying the baby around (with no life jacket).  When J was jumping in the pool, flipping kids off the toys, dunking kids under water, etc, the mom was normally within 10ish feet watching the whole thing...but she didn't say anything and she didn't do anything.  I'm not even sure what she could have done to stop him since she was carrying around an infant in 4 feet of water.

That is actually what made it seem so awkward for me to reprimand J.  I couldn't really say, "let's find your mom and tell her what happened" when she saw the whole thing!!  When J dunked my toddler under (and to be fair, I didn't see him "hold" any kids under water; he was just shoving/tugging them down and darting away), she bobbed up and started screaming.  I looked incredulously at J's mom, who was only 5 or 6 feet away, and she avoided eye contact.

 

I would have had a REALLY hard time not yelling at her.  Something along the lines of, "Lady, deal with your kid or get him out of here!"

[Ravin]

The pool should have a clear, written policy for how to handle infractions, which should be uniformly followed by all the lifeguards. I would ask management what the policy is and insist it be followed with J, and describe in detail what you saw, including which lifeguards if you know names. Then watch like a hawk next time and demand immediate action if they continue to mishandle the situation, up to and including a partial refund for you if you have to leave because of this kid's behavior.

[Tsuga]

Misbehaving is one thing.

Following rules in a pool is another.

In this case I would speak to the mom directly and ask that she stop the behavior. Specifically, "your son is playing in a way that is dangerous. Please find a way to stop him from dunking the other children."

If she continues to put him and the other kids in danger I would contact the pool administrator / manager.

It more about chances for the mom and life guard in this case. A four year old cannot comprehend the consequences of these actions. It is a crowd management issue. I would expect to see many four year olds facing consequences through the day. I would not expect them to stop if they were not managed directly, immediately and formly by an authority followed up by the parent. The life guard needs to be empowered to do that by management, and if the mom doesn't respond the pool needs to kick them out. It is a liability to all her kids as well as the rest of the pool.

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, wendyroo said:

  I'm not even sure what she could have done to stop him since she was carrying around an infant in 4 feet of water.

 

Right, but after it happened, she could have then packed up her little family and gone home since J was out of control and unable to behave appropriately in the situation.  I have absolutely been at the pool with four young children (as have many of us here) and have headed home when one warning wasn't heard.

The problem is two-fold:

1. Pool management didn't apply serious enough consequences (ie--kicking him out of the pool with the safety issues) & 

2. Mom was refusing to parent her child.

 

[Tanaqui]

The situation you describe does not sound to me like "how many chances should misbehaving kids get", it sounds like "how many chances should parents get". Because it's not J's fault he wasn't acting right. Clearly, the responsible adult was not interested in taking the appropriate steps. She should not have been at the pool with so many little children by herself if she wasn't able to supervise them, and if her child doesn't know how to act safely and courteously then she needs to either find a way to get him to listen or remove him from the situation. This sucks, and it's tough, but that's life. It's not fair to him or to anybody else at the pool - and it's not safe, either!

It also sounds like the lifeguard was not empowered to enforce a break from the pool or kick this family out. I would absolutely both write and call to the pool to complain. There is no point having rules if the lifeguards will not enforce them. He should've been benched for running the first time if he didn't stop when told, and the family should've been sent home as soon as he proceeded to move to action that could hurt others - like throwing his camera or shoving smaller children. (And the same goes for the four year old.) If they're repeat offenders, then they should be suspended for a few weeks or longer until Mom starts bringing along somebody to help her corral the kids.

Quote

I have absolutely been at the pool with four young children (as have many of us here) and have headed home when one warning wasn't heard.

 

I've left places with far less provocation than that, and considered my actions fully justified. Strangers should not have to correct my child. Either they are way out of line - or my kid is. And if it's my kid, and I'm right there, then it's really my fault. So we leave.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Tanaqui

[BusyMom5]

We have issues with a local family whose child (teenager!) Acts similar.  I have 10 year old twins, and he pushed one if them into the pool during break.  He took their pool toys, and u had to go get them back.  The lifeguards never did anything!  He's bigger than I am.  The 3rd tune u watched him, abd the second he put his hands on my kid I jumped him, right by the lifeguard.   I was watching from the edge and let him know he was not allowed to touch my son again.  He and his mom started trying to explain.  I interrupted.   Your hands do not go on my child again.  I'm done with it.  He was replied that my son had touched him.... I'm like YOU ARE TWICE AS BIG AS HE IS!  (And my kuds had not bothere him, this was our third trip and mine kept going to the baby pool to get away from this kid).  I told his mom that the shove in the pool last time was his last chance.  I'll do something the next time.

 

Small town, his mom us a"fighter"  as in DV and she's the aggressor.  I just hoped sge left me alone!   I do feel sorry for the kid, but he should have been kicked out daily!   I think the life guards, tiny teenage girls,  did not want to confront him or his crazy family.

[Terabith]

Plus, if the lifeguard’s attention is monopolized by J, it might be distracting him from watching the rest of the pool as much as he should be.  Can’t take your eyes off the continual train wreck in progress.  

[Ellie]

8 hours ago, wendyroo said:

There was never any question about where the mother was.  It isn't that big of a pool; she was always nearby and often watching the offenses and reprimands take place.  I only saw her try to talk to J once, and he splashed her and the baby in the faces, laughed, and swam away while she sputtered.  The problem wasn't that she was being inattentive (though she was letting her little kids get WAY further from her then I am comfortable with), but rather that she seemed unable or disinclined to do anything about the issue.

Yeah, that's not ok.

She was as much at fault as her ds, IMHO. He should have been removed from the pool, and possibly told not to come back.

[Chris in VA]

12 hours ago, Tsuga said:

Misbehaving is one thing.

Following rules in a pool is another.

In this case I would speak to the mom directly and ask that she stop the behavior. Specifically, "your son is playing in a way that is dangerous. Please find a way to stop him from dunking the other children."

If she continues to put him and the other kids in danger I would contact the pool administrator / manager.

It more about chances for the mom and life guard in this case. A four year old cannot comprehend the consequences of these actions. It is a crowd management issue. I would expect to see many four year olds facing consequences through the day. I would not expect them to stop if they were not managed directly, immediately and formly by an authority followed up by the parent. The life guard needs to be empowered to do that by management, and if the mom doesn't respond the pool needs to kick them out. It is a liability to all her kids as well as the rest of the pool.

He's 9. The four year old was also out of control, but it's the 9yo who was the problem. 

[Murphy101]

I don’t think this was misbehaving. The running? Yes. The turning the float over? Yes.

Those are common things to get onto kids for at a pool ime. But they are gotten into and the problem is over. 

The rest? No. That’s just open hostility.

I disagree about a 4 yr old. A four year old is old enough to understand that hateful behavior will get them in trouble and no one will play with them UNLESS they aren’t used to being allowed to go about like that with everyone.

[Xahm]

Generally I say little ones should get lots of chances. If my kid is acting up at the playground, we don't leave right away. First they get a warning, then have to come stick with me for a while before being allowed to go off again, then they have to stay close to me on a less-crowded section of the playground. But correction happens, and it would be a different story if it were dangerous behavior. At a pool, most misbehavior can turn dangerous quickly. I would contact someone over the life guard's head about this. I'd also be wondering who the family was related to to be able to get away with this behavior so long.

[Murphy101]

3 minutes ago, xahm said:

Generally I say little ones should get lots of chances. If my kid is acting up at the playground, we don't leave right away. First they get a warning, then have to come stick with me for a while before being allowed to go off again, then they have to stay close to me on a less-crowded section of the playground. But correction happens, and it would be a different story if it were dangerous behavior. At a pool, most misbehavior can turn dangerous quickly. I would contact someone over the life guard's head about this. I'd also be wondering who the family was related to to be able to get away with this behavior so long.

 

This is similiar to me too. If for no other reason than it’s defcon harsh to have a sibling be the brunt of the reason all the kids have to leave.  I’m not keen on making siblings dislike each other, even short term, if I can avoid it. Inherent personality differences make it hard enough for siblings to get along sometimes. 

[Lady Florida.]

I wonder if he has any special needs behavior issues. That doesn't excuse his behavior but might explain it. And if that's the case the mother shouldn't have brought him there with the other kids and no help. He needs to go when he can have one on one supervision.

I agree with those who said you should say something to the pool PTB. 

[TechWife]

The kid should have been kicked out of the pool for the day.

If I had to guess, the pool may not have fully trained the lifeguard on what disciplinary options are available and when to use them, or the lifeguard isn't confident in his authority or ability to enforce pool rules. Either way, the management needs to deal with the issue for everyone's safety.

I hope this was a one time thing and doesn't turn into a habit!

[prairiewindmomma]

10 hours ago, Lady Florida. said:

I wonder if he has any special needs behavior issues. That doesn't excuse his behavior but might explain it. And if that's the case the mother shouldn't have brought him there with the other kids and no help. He needs to go when he can have one on one supervision.

I agree with those who said you should say something to the pool PTB. 

Yes. And agreeing with happysmileylady also.  

[Mommyof1]

I was at a kiddie pool with my DD5 and a kid maybe 3-4 yrs old was going around splashing others including a lot smaller kids in the face and laughing.

When we got there the lifeguard (a teenager) told us what was happening.

It happened to my kid. She asked him to stop, he wouldnt, she went to the lifeguard and she wouldnt do anything. So she came to me. I said splash him back, she did, didnt stop him.

Clearly lifeguard wasnt interested in helping. So when my child came to me, a second time, now crying, i walked over to the kid and told him to leave my child alone. His look was of i dont care but he didnt go near my kid again.

He kept splashing other kids. Its only when he splashed a Mom holding 1yr old at the side of the pool (the Mom looking straight at lifeguard) did the lifeguard go and speak to the child. Within minutes that family left. His Mom was to busy talking with friends to be monitering her child.

If it was a 9 yr old acting dangerous to my kid. First thing protect my kid. Second get in this kids face and explain how it will NOT happen any more. Then find this kids parent and explain to them the situation. If they and the lifeguards dont have any interest in protecting the other kids. Make it perfectly clear to all involved that you are going to management. If its not handled then stop going there and tell anyone who will listen not to go there and why.

Maybe the kid was doing it to get his Mothers attention. The same day as the splasher there was a 6yr old boy kept taking a small girls doll making her cry. The boys Dad was right there and he was chasing his son down ( the boy had a hugh smile on his face the whole time). His father got the doll and gave it back to the girl. The boy kept taking the doll again and again to get his Dad to chase him.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Pardon my language, but I would have gone *effing crazy* on that kid and his mom.  I do NOT mess around with water safety and pool rules.  If the parent and the pool were unwilling to control him or remove him, I would have left.  

Your post title is a bit misleading.  Kids deserve lots of chances at good behavior and trying again.  But not in a pool situation or other situation where the rules are there to keep people safe.  

 

[unsinkable]

It sounds like he is one of "those" kids who adults have given up on guiding and disciplining. 

I'm pretty sure we've all known kids like that. 

I think the pool needs to have a proactive plan in place to deal with HIM, in particular. So the best thing to do is to address the pool management before you go the next time.

[kiwik]

As the mother of an extremely difficult 9 year old I would assume the 9 year old promised that this time he would behave and she couldn't face the fuss of removing him.  She probably would have been grateful if the life guard had kicked him out.  That said I wouldn't take my 9 year old to the pool with 3 younger kids as although he doesn't run, duck or splash kids he does need you there because if someone splashed him and laughed he would flip.  They probably wouldn't do it again but my son would probably be the one chucked out.

[sweet2ndchance]

As a teenage lifeguard, I would have been bound by the pool's rules regarding safety infractions. The pools I worked at were more stringent on safety infractions (running around the pool, dunking people, relieving yourself in the pool) than annoyance infractions (splashing others, interfereing with lap swimmer in a safe but annoying way). Safety infractions got one warning and then the pool manager was called to ask the person (and their family if it is a child) to leave the pool. Annoyance infractions were "3 strikes" infractions so on the third strike they were asked to leave the pool. 

This mom could not handle her children at the pool and would have been asked to leave at the second safety infraction from her 9 year old at any pool I worked at as a teenager. I've been in that season of life before where I am out numbered by littles and there are certain normal childhood activities that I couldn't take my kids to because I couldn't parent effectively in that situation. It sucks but it is only a season. It will pass and we will reach a season where it is possible.

It does sound as though this mom has given up on disciplining her child for whatever reason, whether it be because she's overwhelmed or chooses to be a permissive parent is neither here nor there. When her child's behavior directly encroaches on my or my child's safety, that's where I draw the line. I would have reprimanded the child myself for dunking my child, complained to the lifeguard (doen't sound like it is the case this time but sometimes a lifeguard really doesn't see an infraction and telling them allows them to keep a closer eye on the person) and if it continued, I would complain to the pool manager. If the pool manager recieves enough complaints on the same child, it should cause them to ask the family not to come back. Again, I'm sorry for the mom but her children are a safety risk and that cannot be tolerated at a pool. It is all too easy for an "accident" or "I was just playing" to turn into a life threatening event at a pool.

If the pool manager is as lax with safety as the life guards seem to be, I probably wouldn't return to that pool. I might even complain to whatever entity maintains the pool (the city, parks and rec dept, YMCA...) or maybe write the local paper or something about safety concerns. Again, if enough people do it, it may change policies at the pool for the better for everyone.  

[Pen]

On 8/21/2018 at 3:37 PM, wendyroo said:

.  The life guard was watching him like a hawk and reminding him of the rules every single time

 

Some children might stop if a lifeguard called them out and told them the rules just one time  

Doesn’t sound like that works for that child  

Sounds like for that child, being reminded of rules is merely another rewarding positive reinforcement to keep repeating the action. Probably hearing a toddler scream after being dunked is another reward  

I wonder what he would need to do to get into enough trouble to be stopped. 

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by Pen
ETA. Having dealt a little with foster children, it seems to me that some children are calling out for help and for structure.