This happened today. (A vent of sorts.)

[shanvan]

I am keeping this a little vague to protect all involved.  I got a message asking me to keep Dd out of a competition so that a young girl just starting out will have a win.  Apparently the girl heard we were traveling to this competition with friends and she got upset b/c my Dd is more experienced and has had a lot of success in the past year (and a lot of failures too).  The person who asked me did it b/c she 'just feels so bad for the poor girl' and she saw how the girl's face just dropped when she heard my Dd was going.  I have no idea who else might enter and wins are certainly not guaranteed.  I politely said no after I said I would consider it.  (Which I should not have done.)  The young girl who is feeling so threatened is 4 years younger than my Dd and just starting out.  I am annoyed by the thoughtlessness of the person who asked me.  My own Dd had many many failures when she was just starting and she has had to work very hard to get to where she is today.  Wins at this competition (which is 2 days) would help my Dd move on to a higher level--which she is trying to achieve.  We are sacrificing a lot to help her work toward that level.  The younger girl is nowhere near that level and not that serious.  A win (should she get one) will not help her in any way.  When I pointed that out, the woman responded that the girl doesn't care about the win counting for anything, she just wants to be able to say she won at the event.   

 

I struggled for over an hour about how to answer this request in a way that wouldn't offend.  I made some phone calls to determine if we were just really ticking people off by traveling out of our area.  I am just flabbergasted by the whole thing.  I felt very bad for my Dd when she had to deal with some difficult failures, but I never asked a competitor to stay out of a competition so she could win.  Has anyone ever encountered anything like this?

[zoobie]

I wouldn't respond. That's nuts.

[OneStepAtATime]

They had no right to ask.  

[shanvan]

I wouldn't respond. That's nuts.

Okay, good.  I am not crazy. It is really weird that I needed someone else to tell me that.  

[J-rap]

I probably wouldn't communicate any further.  That just seems nuts!

[SKL]

No, I can't say I have heard of such a thing before.

 

I guess it would make sense if your daughter was competing in something that was too easy for her.  But that would be for the organizers of the competition to decide.

 

I agree, we can't all win all the time.  Nowadays there aren't many opportunities for kids to lose, but it needs to happen eventually.  My kids didn't really lose at anything public until they were about 8, and then they had several opportunities to lose.  I admit that I was a bit worried that they would take it very hard, but they were just fine.  They learned several things, including how to figure out what they are most likely to win at.  :)

[shanvan]

No, I can't say I have heard of such a thing before.

 

I guess it would make sense if your daughter was competing in something that was too easy for her.  But that would be for the organizers of the competition to decide.

 

I agree, we can't all win all the time.  Nowadays there aren't many opportunities for kids to lose, but it needs to happen eventually.  My kids didn't really lose at anything public until they were about 8, and then they had several opportunities to lose.  I admit that I was a bit worried that they would take it very hard, but they were just fine.  They learned several things, including how to figure out what they are most likely to win at.  :)

Nope, Dd is competing at her appropriate level.  She is trying to qualify for the next level.  The younger girl wants to be the winner of the entire competition when all the winners from their individual sections have to compete against each other.  The woman who contacted me wants there to be no entry in the older kid category so that the younger girl will become the champion of the entire event by default.

 

ETA: I guess she is banking on no other kids my Dd's age entering.  We are not from that area, so I had no idea who might enter.  I just assumed the kids would enter and the best kid would win.  And if I did make Dd sit out, then some other kid her age could just enter and win the whole thing.  And that could happen anyway and my Dd would lose too--and she would have to deal with it and learn to be happy with whatever positive things she did accomplish that day.

Edited May 20, 2016 by shanvan

[monstermama]

What an odd thing.  Is the adult who asked you related to the girl, or in some sort of position of authority with the team?  It sounds like the girl herself was disappointed but dealing with it, while it's the adult that has the problem.  I wonder if there's something else going on there that the adult knows about but isn't common knowledge.

[shanvan]

What an odd thing.  Is the adult who asked you related to the girl, or in some sort of position of authority with the team?  It sounds like the girl herself was disappointed but dealing with it, while it's the adult that has the problem.  I wonder if there's something else going on there that the adult knows about but isn't common knowledge.

I thought about that too, but she did not share anything with me.  I can't decide when Dd will compete based on which child is going through the worst stuff though.  I was as kind as I could be, but I think it is a weird thing to do to ask that of someone.

Edited May 20, 2016 by shanvan

[myfunnybunch]

The younger girl wants to be the winner of the entire competition when all the winners form their individual sections have to compete against each other.  The woman who contacted me wants there to be no entry in the older kid category so that the younger girl will become the champion of the entire event by default.

 

:huh:  Um....that's not winning.

 

Weird. Unhealthy. Poor boundaries. Distorted sense of entitlement. Special snowflake.....

 

Good golly.

 

You don't owe them an explanation, or really any communication at all.

[Murphy101]

wth? That's some serious crazy going on there. And isn't that against rules of some kind? To bribe or otherwise push others to take a fall so someone preferred wins? Someone should get in trouble for doing this and for sure shouldn't be in any kind of official position.

 

I hope you don't mention it to your child though bc I wouldn't want her to feel even slightly bad about competing or think she shouldn't be there. And wow would mama bear come out if someone approached my kid directly to suggest they fall out so someone else can have a pity win.

[SproutMamaK]

Wow, that is an insane level of helicopter parenting. It's beyond trying to prevent your child from getting hurt in to actively preventing them from having any experiences that would help them learn to deal with anything even remotely negative. No, you're not crazy. Just... wow.

[hopskipjump]

This kind of thing drives me crazy. It has happened to us, and the gall of people to ask such a thing just leaves me with my mouth agape. :mellow: It's insulting on many levels (even their assuming that your dd will win is insulting ... no competition is ever a sure-thing! You know that... I know that... but people like this sure never seem to!)

 

LOSING BUILDS CHARACTER AND MOTIVATION, PEOPLE! If you can't handle the losing, don't enter a com-pe-ti-tion. It's really fairly simple.

 

Good luck to your dd!!

Edited May 20, 2016 by hopskipjump

[shanvan]

wth? That's some serious crazy going on there. And isn't that against rules of some kind? To bribe or otherwise push others to take a fall so someone preferred wins? Someone should get in trouble for doing this and for sure shouldn't be in any kind of official position.

 

I hope you don't mention it to your child though bc I wouldn't want her to feel even slightly bad about competing or think she shouldn't be there. And wow would mama bear come out if someone approached my kid directly to suggest they fall out so someone else can have a pity win.

Unfortunately Dd heard me discussing how to handle it.  I had to see if I could find out if this was just the adult wanting to protect the girl and not shatter her hopes, or if the family of the girl was involved, b/c we were just going to do something else that weekend if it was a pervasive attitude shared by the competitors in that area.  I was not going to spend my weekend with a bunch of crazy people who would be angry at my Dd.

 

I have talked with Dd about it and I am hopeful that she will not hold it against the girl.  But I am wondering how on earth this adult can expect that the 2 girls will be friendly now.  I am very disappointed in this person since I have thought very well of her in the past.  I am trying to think that her own feelings for the young girl clouded her judgement.

 

Imo, she let an opportunity to teach a very important lesson go by.  My Dd has gone into some competitions like this, feeling she would not win b/c of who else is entered.  We talked about it, about finding some good in the situation, about being gracious and courteous to the other competitors, about being friendly. About how your worth is not b/c of winning.  These are really important things.  I hope they were addressed.

Edited May 20, 2016 by shanvan

[mamiof5]

Have never witnessed this thank goodness. The person asking you just shouldn't be part of the process at all, that's dishonest :(

[HSmomof2]

I wouldn't respond. That's nuts.

Yeah, this. ^^^

[Cinder]

Agreeing that woman's request was inappropriate. My dc haven't been in individual competitions so we haven't experienced this. I would be flabbergasted, though, if it happened to me.

[nd293]

I would have had to opt not to reply or I'm pretty sure I would have offended. That's outrageous. I'm not sure it isn't unethical - someone is basically fixing the competition by asking that your dd not compete.

[Valley Girl]

I haven't read all the responses, but that was not a reasonable request for that person to have made. People--even children--cannot always have what they want at the time they want it. Success should be earned. Good luck to your DD.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I would have had to opt not to reply or I'm pretty sure I would have offended. That's outrageous. I'm not sure it isn't unethical - someone is basically fixing the competition by asking that your dd not compete.

 

I think I would have turned it around exactly this way, "Did you just ask us to fix the competition?"  and I would have sat back to see how they tried to justify that. 

[Tsuga]

Okay, good.  I am not crazy. It is really weird that I needed someone else to tell me that.  

 

You are not crazy.

 

That is an incredibly inappropriate request.

 

I did have my daughter's coach once mention that he was glad she competed in the end--it was her first competition ever--because she was up against a young girl who'd been in the sport to gain confidence. My daughter was a year younger and lost, but at the time, neither of us had any idea that the older girl had been bullied and "needed" the win.

 

As for your daughter, I'd express my hope that the young woman probably reasonably expressed a desire, "Oh man I hope I don't have to go against her!" (a totally normal feeling to express) and that the adults took it in an overly literal way and let their emotions overcome them. That is, in my opinion, the most likely scenario and I'd be happy to say that to my own child. "I don't know but I think this happened."

 

They think adults can be crazy anyway--and this thread shows they are right about that--so save the face of the other child and let it go. Kid got nervous, mom got overprotective, it happens, oh well.

 

Not to say i wouldn't be horrified, but I'd try to pass it off to my child as bad judgment by mom, not some kind of wackily unethical behavior on the part of the child.

[Tsuga]

Adding that my daughter's coach told us that it worked out well AFTER the competition, not beforehand. Beforehand he told her to do her best and that he was proud of her for sticking her neck out and trying the sport and to be respectful. Afterwards he told me that he was grateful she was there because it was great for the other child to have a meet she could win.

[purplejackmama]

Along the similar lines of crazy parents. After my son hit his 6th home run, a dad from the other team came over and asked our coach if maybe they should make him hit left handed for a few games, to help the other boys feel better.

[gypsymama]

Sounds like some of the crazy pageant moms I've seen. I wouldn't respond to it. I wouldn't even consider keeping your dd out of the competition either. She has worked hard for this. You have worked hard for this. Every time a child is involved in something the entire family has to sacrifice and work together to make those goals happen. I wouldn't give up her chances for someone else to attempt an ill gotten win. That also isn't teaching your dd to value her self. Nope nope nope. Compete. 

[creekland]

Hmm, I think we've all seen an example of a super controlling adult.  

 

There's no way I'd give in to one of those - no way in the world. *

 

*Exception made when things get "fixed" for Make a Wish kids or Mentally Disabled/Impaired kids in certain situations, but then everyone else (of an old enough age) knows what's going on.  I absolutely loved it a few years back when our senior class (at high school) let/helped a gal win a competition at a pep rally giving her one of her greatest moments.  It was 100% their idea too, and the whole school cheered (in a good way).  Teens can be very compassionate.

 

But this situation doesn't sound at all like that.  This sounds like an adult that wants to run things the way she thinks they should go - or maybe she's insanely jealous of your dd?  I don't feed those.  They can grow into monsters.  

[Joules]

She does sound crazy.  I wouldn't think the worst of the little girl.  She probably did make some completely normal comment about if dd wasn't there, she would win the whole thing, and then the adult went nuts.

 

I'm not sure it even makes sense to me.  It sounds like the child is good and will win the competition for her age group/skill level.  Wanting all of the older age group to drop out so she looks like the total champion seems false and odd.  She will get older and have her chance, just like everyone else (unless, like Creekland said, this is Make-a-Wish thing, and then they should have led with that.)

[Bluegoat]

That seems very odd. 

 

The only think I can think is perhaps the adult feels that moving outside of one's area tends to mean the same people are the winners all the time? 

 

But if it's an accepted practice, the way to adress that would be with the organizers.

 

Some kids really don't like the winning/losing side of competition, and seem to do better when that is really de-emhasized, but there aren't always venues for that.  But I agree with all the others - it's helicopter parenting.

[snowbeltmom]

There is no way I would pull my kid from the competition - that adult is crazy. 

 

I bet there is a good chance that the girl competing is not even aware that the adult made such an inappropriate request and would be mortified to learn of it.

[TammyS]

I wouldn't respond. That's nuts.

 

:iagree:   No response and if that person came back to me again, I'd probably block them altogether.  What a wacko.

 

ETA: the closest acceptable thing I've seen to this is at wrestling competitions where every so often you get two guys who are technically in the same weight, but clearly mismatched....one guy at the top of his weight class and all muscle, the other at the bottom of the weight class and more flabby....sometimes someone will mention to the dominant guy that "we aren't hurting anybody today, right?"....not to get the bigger guy to lose or quit, just maybe not throw himself at the smaller guy 100%

Edited May 20, 2016 by TammyS

[Mimm]

Absolutely insane. I would have no hesitation in saying that I would do no such thing and I find it rather unethical that she even asked.

 

[JFSinIL]

:huh:  Um....that's not winning.

 

Weird. Unhealthy. Poor boundaries. Distorted sense of entitlement. Special snowflake.....

 

Good golly.

 

You don't owe them an explanation, or really any communication at all.

 

My thoughts exactly.  The young girl needs to do her best and accept defeats as they come - and if she wins anything, win gracefully.  It does her no favors tobend the rules or ask older kids to not compete.   Geez!   

 

[sassenach]

Along the similar lines of crazy parents. After my son hit his 6th home run, a dad from the other team came over and asked our coach if maybe they should make him hit left handed for a few games, to help the other boys feel better.

That is hysterical. Wow.

[Anne in CA]

Count me among the people who think this is crazy. There is no reason for anyone to have to give up achieving a new level so that a beginner can imagine that she has a chance. I predict a lot of hard times for this young lady. Is mom going to get her a Prom date? Is mom going to bribe college admissions officers? My guess is that this will get worse.

[elegantlion]

No, you're not nuts, that woman is. 

[Harriet Vane]

Absolutely inappropriate.

[Tammi K]

My son figure skates and at his singles level, there are frequently no other competitors.  Many time he has gotten, by default, a first place.  (When skaters have no competitors they skate 'against the book' or against the minimum test  criteria for the level. Since competition skills are more stringent then test skills a win is fairly well guaranteed.)

 

Many times after such an event I'll ask if he collected his medal.  Frequently he doesn't bother.  He has said that a 'win' against the book isn't a real win.  Competition girl might clear out her competitors but it will be a shallow victory if she brings it in.  Winning is about proving something to YOURSELF not to anyone else. 

[BlsdMama]

I am keeping this a little vague to protect all involved. I got a message asking me to keep Dd out of a competition so that a young girl just starting out will have a win. Apparently the girl heard we were traveling to this competition with friends and she got upset b/c my Dd is more experienced and has had a lot of success in the past year (and a lot of failures too). The person who asked me did it b/c she 'just feels so bad for the poor girl' and she saw how the girl's face just dropped when she heard my Dd was going. I have no idea who else might enter and wins are certainly not guaranteed. I politely said no after I said I would consider it. (Which I should not have done.) The young girl who is feeling so threatened is 4 years younger than my Dd and just starting out. I am annoyed by the thoughtlessness of the person who asked me. My own Dd had many many failures when she was just starting and she has had to work very hard to get to where she is today. Wins at this competition (which is 2 days) would help my Dd move on to a higher level--which she is trying to achieve. We are sacrificing a lot to help her work toward that level. The younger girl is nowhere near that level and not that serious. A win (should she get one) will not help her in any way. When I pointed that out, the woman responded that the girl doesn't care about the win counting for anything, she just wants to be able to say she won at the event.

 

I struggled for over an hour about how to answer this request in a way that wouldn't offend. I made some phone calls to determine if we were just really ticking people off by traveling out of our area. I am just flabbergasted by the whole thing. I felt very bad for my Dd when she had to deal with some difficult failures, but I never asked a competitor to stay out of a competition so she could win. Has anyone ever encountered anything like this?

You should have never been asked to do that. Crazy.

[Tammyla]

Crazy, fixing a competition...it's just wrong.  Wrong lesson and cheats everyone all around. 

[NorthwestMom]

I swear, it is always the parents who are the nuttiest about kid events.

 

I'm sorry you have to deal with this!

[Farrar]

Along the similar lines of crazy parents. After my son hit his 6th home run, a dad from the other team came over and asked our coach if maybe they should make him hit left handed for a few games, to help the other boys feel better.

 

In rec league soccer, our coach always took out the "good" players at the end of the game if we were up and put in the second string. Gives everyone more chance to play, makes it more of a friendly competition for the last quarter. But I don't know how you would do that in baseball. I mean, there's a line up. And it's not fair to ask an individual kid to hold back.

 

It's nice when there are competitive levels - like rec league sports or beginner level competitions - where newcomers have more of a shot or where kids who aren't as serious can play and enjoy the competition at their level. It can be disheartening to try your hand at something that you're doing mostly for fun only to be shut out every time. Losing absolutely builds character, but if you know it's not your goal or within your realistic reach to ever even come close, then it can definitely kill casual enjoyment of something. Which is why it's sort of uncool when kids who are on a million travel teams for something also come back and act like a ringer on a rec league team or kids who are competitive at a high level enroll in a beginner competition.

 

It doesn't sound like that's what's going on in the OP. I agree totally with everyone else that what that other mom asked is just nutty. I guess I just wanted to say I'm glad there are some competitions in some things that are for kids who are new to something or playing a game for fun.

[lllll]

Unfortunately Dd heard me discussing how to handle it.  I had to see if I could find out if this was just the adult wanting to protect the girl and not shatter her hopes, or if the family of the girl was involved, b/c we were just going to do something else that weekend if it was a pervasive attitude shared by the competitors in that area.  I was not going to spend my weekend with a bunch of crazy people who would be angry at my Dd.

 

I have talked with Dd about it and I am hopeful that she will not hold it against the girl.  But I am wondering how on earth this adult can expect that the 2 girls will be friendly now.  I am very disappointed in this person since I have thought very well of her in the past.  I am trying to think that her own feelings for the young girl clouded her judgement.

 

Imo, she let an opportunity to teach a very important lesson go by.  My Dd has gone into some competitions like this, feeling she would not win b/c of who else is entered.  We talked about it, about finding some good in the situation, about being gracious and courteous to the other competitors, about being friendly. About how your worth is not b/c of winning.  These are really important things.  I hope they were addressed.

 

I would be very open with my dd about all of it.  Even to the point of explaining things as they happen, pointing out how to read all the people involved, etc.  Kind of putting feelings aside for a moment and letting the whole thing be a lesson in human behavior.  Especially noting the consequences of their actions, how the actions affect others, what they could have done differently, exploring reactions to the initial (totally inappropriate) request, all of it.  It sounds like a great teaching opportunity for you and your dd to share.   

 

I used to do this with my kids in real life situations.  And this one is priceless because you can't even begin to make this stuff up.  ;)

[shanvan]

In rec league soccer, our coach always took out the "good" players at the end of the game if we were up and put in the second string. Gives everyone more chance to play, makes it more of a friendly competition for the last quarter. But I don't know how you would do that in baseball. I mean, there's a line up. And it's not fair to ask an individual kid to hold back.

 

It's nice when there are competitive levels - like rec league sports or beginner level competitions - where newcomers have more of a shot or where kids who aren't as serious can play and enjoy the competition at their level. It can be disheartening to try your hand at something that you're doing mostly for fun only to be shut out every time. Losing absolutely builds character, but if you know it's not your goal or within your realistic reach to ever even come close, then it can definitely kill casual enjoyment of something. Which is why it's sort of uncool when kids who are on a million travel teams for something also come back and act like a ringer on a rec league team or kids who are competitive at a high level enroll in a beginner competition.

 

It doesn't sound like that's what's going on in the OP. I agree totally with everyone else that what that other mom asked is just nutty. I guess I just wanted to say I'm glad there are some competitions in some things that are for kids who are new to something or playing a game for fun.

Yes.  There are some similar competitions that would be less competitive.  My dd did some of them a couple of years ago.  If I could still fit those in I'd be happier.  I like a less competitive atmosphere. I thought about suggesting them, but I want to just stay away from the situation right now.  I am afraid it will not come off well. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by shanvan

[QueenCat]

I would let your dd's coach know about it, so that he/she will be aware if others have issues with this parent in the future. Even if she's on a different team/coach.

[Seasider]

Count me among the people who think this is crazy. There is no reason for anyone to have to give up achieving a new level so that a beginner can imagine that she has a chance. I predict a lot of hard times for this young lady. Is mom going to get her a Prom date? Is mom going to bribe college admissions officers? My guess is that this will get worse.

Perhaps it sounds cruel, and I don't mean it should be dealt so harshly, but everyone needs a Simon Cowell (or Simon Cowell experience) in their lives at some point. Taking constructive criticism, or an experience that teaches the same, is crucial to skill refinement. Losses and setbacks should inspire one to work harder for a desired goal. If the young gal will quit because she can't take a loss at a beginner level, then perhaps she really should be pursuing a different activity.

[ashfern]

:huh: That's totally insane.

[sassenach]

In rec league soccer, our coach always took out the "good" players at the end of the game if we were up and put in the second string. Gives everyone more chance to play, makes it more of a friendly competition for the last quarter. But I don't know how you would do that in baseball. I mean, there's a line up. And it's not fair to ask an individual kid to hold back.

 

 

We have backed off from stealing if we're demolishing a team, but you will never get an individual player to not bat their best. And the little league rules mandate that all kids bat in the line-up. Really, how is it at all ok to tell a kid that they should not do their best? Insanity I tell you!

[zoobie]

Along the similar lines of crazy parents. After my son hit his 6th home run, a dad from the other team came over and asked our coach if maybe they should make him hit left handed for a few games, to help the other boys feel better.

 

My DS is a switch hitter. I would LOL at that.

 

In rec league soccer, our coach always took out the "good" players at the end of the game if we were up and put in the second string. Gives everyone more chance to play, makes it more of a friendly competition for the last quarter. But I don't know how you would do that in baseball. I mean, there's a line up. And it's not fair to ask an individual kid to hold back.

 

It's nice when there are competitive levels - like rec league sports or beginner level competitions - where newcomers have more of a shot or where kids who aren't as serious can play and enjoy the competition at their level. It can be disheartening to try your hand at something that you're doing mostly for fun only to be shut out every time. Losing absolutely builds character, but if you know it's not your goal or within your realistic reach to ever even come close, then it can definitely kill casual enjoyment of something. Which is why it's sort of uncool when kids who are on a million travel teams for something also come back and act like a ringer on a rec league team or kids who are competitive at a high level enroll in a beginner competition.

 

It doesn't sound like that's what's going on in the OP. I agree totally with everyone else that what that other mom asked is just nutty. I guess I just wanted to say I'm glad there are some competitions in some things that are for kids who are new to something or playing a game for fun.

 

This isn't always possible in baseball. In a blowout game, they will let other players pitch who don't normally pitch, but the batting lineup stays the same (in both of the leagues my DS plays in currently). If your team bats out of order, you can forfeit the game. If a player is injured, you can remove him from the game entirely. Anyway, it's not always possible in baseball. :)

[OH_Homeschooler]

insane. If I could talk to that mom I'd tell her that I've never been in a job interview without some variation of the question "How do you handle failure?" That girl either will never be able to answer that question well or worse, will never learn to cope with failure. It sucks, it hurts, but it's life. Better to burst a kid's bubble young so they can learn that you can survive failure and build up some resiliency. Because if a kid gets to college or whatever, and has never failed before I'd hate to think what would happen when that first failure occurs. Not that losing a competition is a failure even, it's just a competition that someone will win. Not winning isn't failure, it's participating. 

[FaithManor]

This is so many levels of inappropriate which represented as a variable in an equation would require an exponent!

 

Dh and I organize the regional 4H science fair here and we would consider the parents' actions to be unethical and cheating. It is violation of the code of conduct and while it would be unfortunate for the child, to prevent more attempts at fixing the competition, we would disqualify the student if we had knowledge of this. It would be reported to 4H Council and the family would be expelled from 4H for two years.

 

It happened two years ago in a horse club when a mother tried to get two others families to keep their kids out of the county horse show so her child could have an easy win. Expelled. Another parent tried to bribe a swine judge with $500.00 to make sure his kid got grand champion. His family was permanently thrown out of 4H.

 

So whomever this special snowflake mother is, as far as I see it, she is playing with fire and it could result in some serious repercussions if she keeps it up. If you ever get an email, twitter, or facebook message something you can screen shot, I would forward it to the organizers.

[Evergreen State Sue]

Iron sharpens iron.  Those in competition will become better by having the best to compete against.