Help me get a grip (son quitting BSA)

[marbel]

Last night my son quit Boy Scouts.  Actually, he asked his Scoutmaster if he could take a leave of absence and possibly come back, everyone is pretty sure he's not going to go back. 

 

This wasn't a quick decision; we've talked about it for a long time.  He has several reasons, none related to the Scout organization, abuse, nothing like that.  It was mainly precipitated by a couple of years of chronic illness without a clear dx that started at camp one summer.  (Lyme and similar infections have been ruled out multiple times, just saying because people always mention that.)   Last year he was not able to go to summer camp due to sickness.  I think there is also a little boredom with the troop and the activities which don't change from year to year.  It is not a result of "fumes" (as I've heard people say) - he is not driving and does not have a girlfriend.  He is not interested in finding another troop at this stage (16.5 years old, Life Scout, lots of required badges undone).

 

Anyway, now that it's done, I seem to be having a harder time with this than he is!  His dad and I had always encouraged him to make Eagle Scout; we know the benefits of that in terms of possible future military service, etc.  And all we ever hear is how men end up regretting not pushing all the way.

 

So I would love to hear from some people who have no regrets. Moms or Dads of boys who left and lived to tell the tale.  Wives of men, or the men themselves, who look back with fondness but no regret. 

 

I keep reminding myself that while most Eagle Scouts become successful men, all successful men are not Eagle Scouts.  But it's not helping.

 

Anyone?  Thanks!

 

Maybe part of it is that I'm just tired from trying to help him find his way to his decision.  It was a tough one.

[bettyandbob]

No regrets. Scouts is great. There are lots of great things for a boy to do. It wasn't right for my ds. 

 

My brother was and Eagle scout. So were many of his friends. Knowing the crap they did, I do not think achieving Eagle is the be all end all make a man. I love my brother, but he and his friends had some serious flaws. I do know some great kids who happen to be Eagle scouts, but I don't believe Eagle scout means you are a great kid. I think one issue is too many get involved for the sake of achievement. Like Eagle is a box to get checked off. There are things to learn on the way to Eagle that can be learned else through a variety of opportunities. I think some scouts actually miss learning the valuable lessons BSA intends because they've turned the focus on achievement for the sake of achievement. 

 

Dh stayed in scouts never made Eagle. Never even close. He didn't care about that achievement. He did like going camping and scouts provided that opportunity. He achieved many other things through high school and beyond. 

 

So, let go of scouts. Provide your ds the opportunity to explore things he likes. 

[Chris in VA]

Ours quit quite early, then we moved and were surrounded by military culture (we are next to Ft. Belvoir); scouting is HUGE here. We love the Eagles in our congregation for many reasons, one of which is that we get lots of bonus projects done thanks to them! lol

 

I would ask you--Why is Scouting such a big deal to you? Did you grow up with it? Was it presented as a black and white, "do this to be successful" kind of thing?

 

My brothers were Scouts, I was a Den Mother for a year, and my dad was a Leader--but we see it as just an activity, like soccer or band. I know it's seen as much more for some families, I was just wondering why you are so invested. Would you feel the same about playing a sport or an instrument and quitting?

[Halftime Hope]

I know this won't be much consolation, but from the other side, I know several recently fledged Eagles who really are not responsible or the kind of guys I'd want my sons to emulate. 

[Pawz4me]

Our boys were never interested in the Scouts.  And I was very thankful for that.  Not that I have anything against them, but they just don't seem to be that popular in our area.  From what I can tell there aren't a lot of dens or troops or whatever they're called around, and none of our extended family or friends have ever been involved.  And for the most part we're a very successful bunch. ;)

 

I'd let it go.

[Anne in CA]

Every kid can't do everything.  My family put up with a real creepy sicko and a lot of nasty politics for my son to get Eagle and I am almost sorry we didn't walk away. A lot of those badges that you do at camp are hard to finish at home. Environmental Science for one. If your ds does not have some of those getting them in a year an a half would be a huge pain on top of school. If your son is not well enough to go to camp he probably shouldn't join the military in a year an a half so the Eagle may not matter anyway.

 

Honestly, being an Eagle Scout is almost as much about the help you get from your parents as what you are capable of. We all know that. I think it is going to be hard for you for your hard work to go to "waste". In truth, no parenting is a waste. I'm sure there were great things about scouting that helped your whole family. I have seen a father relentlessly push his son to get Eagle and it turned out fine, but I can see families where that would be a very bad idea. You know your son and what your family is capable of pushing him to do. It probably is going to feel weird for awhile, but if you are letting your son make the call try to have peace with it and you will feel better soon.

[dirty ethel rackham]

My oldest did not become an Eagle scout.  He continued with the troop until he aged out at 18, but did not pursue anything beyond Life Scout.  It just wasn't important to him.  He liked the camping and outdoors stuff, but didn't like all the record keeping (if he was going to exercise, he was going to exercise, not do it for some badge.)  He was going to learn about government because it was an important life skill, but he wasn't going to go to a council meeting so he could check off a box. 

 

He is a sophomore in college and loving life.  No regrets.  Now,he did get his black belt in Karate.  I think that was way more important to him than Eagle Scout, even though many people seem to hold the BSA awards in higher esteem than martial arts accomplishments.  (Perhaps it is due to many martial arts programs giving belts out like candy, but ds' program was very strict - only a small percentage get an adult black belt and it is a grueling test.) 

 

Now ds17 is reconsidering taking his adult black belt test. I know he would regret not getting it.  I understand his reasons right now, but also have the foresight to see that his situation is temporary. 

[Night Elf]

FWIW, my DH is an Eagle Scout and feels completely indifferent about it. He said it was just something to do as he did enjoy his scout troop. He really liked being a camp counselor too. But his achievement of Eagle didn't do anything for his adult life. We put our son in scouts early and he hated it. We didn't see the need to force him to do it.

[teachermom2834]

My husband made Eagle. We have 3 boys and he has never encouraged Scouting (he isnt against it- our boys are just into different things). He thinks being an Eagle is overrated and not something that impacted his future or success in any way. Scouting was good for him mainly because he didnt have men in his life otherwise but he thinks achieving Eagle gets overblown. Just his opinion.

[PrairieSong]

One of our sons was an Eagle Scout. He's very outdoorsy and loved the camping, etc. Our other two boys took very different paths. My dh was never in Scouts. He has his own business and has been very successful in building it up over the years. So, I certainly don't see Boy Scouts or Eagle Scout as the ultimate achievement for a young man.

[PrincessMommy]

We're into camping and hiking.  None of my boys stuck with scouts, though.  It just didn't stick. 

[TheApprentice]

My son quit Boy Scouts. No regrets. I was a little upset, like you, but my son was fine and he never looked back.

[hillfarm]

I think you should take time to consider why you are so set on his becoming an Eagle Scout. It sounds a bit like you are more set on being the mother of one than he is set on becoming one.

 

Kind of like the internal struggle I had when we decided to put my dd into an online public school rather than doing traditional homeschooling. I was pretty jolted by the whole process. I had gotten to the point where being a homeschool mom was my identity. Making the change meant a big shift in my view of myself (and how I imagine others perceive me). I am pretty sure the switch was harder for me to process than it was for dd, the actual student involved.

 

Eagle Scout is a measure of activity, not a guarantee of personality or ability. We all want to believe that there is some thing we could do that would guarantee that our dc would grow up strong,  true and successful. But the fact is that other than parenting them to the best of our abilities, there is no way to control who they will be when they grow up. There are good and bad Eagles, just as there are good and bad non-Eagles.

[Catwoman]

Our boys were never interested in the Scouts.  And I was very thankful for that.  Not that I have anything against them, but they just don't seem to be that popular in our area.  From what I can tell there aren't a lot of dens or troops or whatever they're called around, and none of our extended family or friends have ever been involved.  And for the most part we're a very successful bunch. ;)

 

I'd let it go.

 

Same here. Scouting doesn't seem to be very popular, particularly after elementary school. I know there are older Scouts, but they seem to be few and far between.

 

 

He is a sophomore in college and loving life.  No regrets.  Now,he did get his black belt in Karate.  I think that was way more important to him than Eagle Scout, even though many people seem to hold the BSA awards in higher esteem than martial arts accomplishments.

 

 

I think that may depend upon where you live. I only know one guy who became an Eagle Scout, and no one seemed particularly impressed, probably because it's not that common in our area so people don't realize how much time and work are involved. I remember that quite a few of his classmates made fun of him for being an "older" Scout -- and he was a relatively popular kid, so it wasn't a bullying situation. It was just that it was uncommon for a high school boy to still be a Scout.

 

I'm sure being an Eagle Scout has many advantages, but the vast majority of boys never even get close to that level of achievement, and they do just fine in life. I can understand why Margaret would be disappointed about her son quitting, though, and I'm sure she is mainly worried that her son will regret it later.

[marbel]

Thanks to all for your responses!  So kind and helpful.

 

I agree with those who suggest I examine my own investment in it.  I think it is just a general sense of loss.  We got involved in Scouts when we moved cross-country and found ourselves in an area with few homeschoolers.  Neither my husband nor I came from Scouting families, but I do seem to come across a lot of people who consider Eagle Scout a nonnegotiable for their sons (including many on this board) and I think I was letting that influence my thinking. 

 

It was a good way for my socially-awkward son to meet some kids.  He learned a lot of great skills and I would say he grew a lot in the 5 years he was with Scouts. 

 

I also agree that there are many men who do great without Scouts!  My husband is one of them. Really, I don't want to imply that Scouts, especially Eagles, have it all together.   We have met some Eagle Scouts who are not impressive and I do sometimes wonder how much of their achievement was someone else pushing them and maybe even giving a bit too much help  if you know what I mean.  I do wonder if my son sees a contrast between some of those guys and other young men he knows who are not involved in Scouting but display more of the characteristics one is supposed to associate with Eagle Scout.  If that sentence made any sense at all. 

 

We did and do want this to be our boy's decision though we made sure it was well thought out, not an impulse.  It's true that there are many other paths in life.  I am not sure why I got so stuck on this one! 

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

 

[Catwoman]

Thanks to all for your responses!  So kind and helpful.

 

I agree with those who suggest I examine my own investment in it.  I think it is just a general sense of loss.  We got involved in Scouts when we moved cross-country and found ourselves in an area with few homeschoolers.  Neither my husband nor I came from Scouting families, but I do seem to come across a lot of people who consider Eagle Scout a nonnegotiable for their sons (including many on this board) and I think I was letting that influence my thinking. 

 

It was a good way for my socially-awkward son to meet some kids.  He learned a lot of great skills and I would say he grew a lot in the 5 years he was with Scouts. 

 

I also agree that there are many men who do great without Scouts!  My husband is one of them. Really, I don't want to imply that Scouts, especially Eagles, have it all together.   We have met some Eagle Scouts who are not impressive and I do sometimes wonder how much of their achievement was someone else pushing them and maybe even giving a bit too much help  if you know what I mean.  I do wonder if my son sees a contrast between some of those guys and other young men he knows who are not involved in Scouting but display more of the characteristics one is supposed to associate with Eagle Scout.  If that sentence made any sense at all. 

 

We did and do want this to be our boy's decision though we made sure it was well thought out, not an impulse.  It's true that there are many other paths in life.  I am not sure why I got so stuck on this one! 

 

Thanks so much for your thoughts!

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable that you would be stuck on this! Five years is a big deal. It represented a lot of time, a lot of effort, and probably also a lot of fun. It makes perfect sense to me that you would be disappointed, and that you would be worried that your ds might be making a decision that he will regret later on.

[Ipsey]

I guess I've just never understood BSA.

 

Where I grew up, the scouts were mostly well known pot smokers. One got in trouble for tearing out the grass in front of the court house (where his father worked) in the shape of a pentagram. I thought BSA was a joke, I had no idea it was a reputable organization, honestly. I've met a number of boys who probably shame the whole concept of being an Eagle Scout.

 

My husband was a Life Scout, and my oldest boy just got his Arrow of Light last week. (A ceremony I found quite unpleasant and offensive, actually. Ick!) Everyone there was all ginned up about the Eagle Scout award. I asked DH why he didn't get his, and he said he didn't care about the badges and hub-bub, he just wanted to camp.

 

He's now a Ph.D. in Ecology and still loves the outdoors and to camp. I dare say he's a successful and upstanding person.

I don't care whether my boys get their Eagle Scouts or not. if they want to, I'll be very proud of their hard work, if they don't and have other things to do. Yay!

 

I know it's probably harder for you because you had hopes and expectations attached to Eagle Scoutdom, but in the big scheme of things, I think it will turn out just fine.

 

Peace and calm to you. :)

 

 

 

[DawnM]

We are a scouting family.  My boys are in a very good homeschool troop (ok, there are issues, but we are being proactive about them and overall we are happy.)

 

If your son has health issues that is another thing though……that could certainly be a factor in him not wanting to finish.

 

I have one Life Scout and one Star Scout right now (and a Web. 1).  The older two have every intention of getting Eagle.  In fact, both are working on their very last merit badge requirement for it right now.

 

HOWEVER, that said, there are certainly many, many very successful young men out there who never went to boy scouts or had to leave for one reason or another.  It is ONE way to work towards goals for a young man, but there are certainly many others.

 

Dawn

[DawnM]

I don't think you are the lone voice.  I have heard this over and over……any time we sell popcorn or camp cards or do service projects in uniform, I can't tell you the number of men who come up and tell my boys to stick with it because they regret that they didn't!

 

I just wasn't sure that was what the OP wanted to hear.

 

We have told our boys that they cannot get DL until they finish Eagle.  They are the ones who begged and begged to do scouting and they will need to follow through to the end (Eagle).  Thankfully, they really want to too.  Our troop is very good with encouraging the boys to finish and there have been very few who had any desire to leave.

 

Dawn

 

 

I do want to point out that, since he's made Life, if he's done his 6 mos PoR, he can come back after a time and finish. He can also finish as a Lone Scout if he's hsed. I'm going to be the dissenting voice here and relate that I know many "Life for Life" Scouts, who now as Scouters, regret not finishing. After a break, he may decide to come back in and finish.

 

[shawthorne44]

My DH is an Eagle Scout, gold award.  It doesn't seem to have helped him.  He doesn't regret getting it, but I don't think he would have regretted skipping it.  He would have had entrance to any of the service academies (in fact the two big ones approached him), but his father was a Marine Sergeant, with all that went with it, so he probably still have had easy access regardless.  Because of his father, he was also totally uninterested in the military.  He was kicked out of Scouts when he was 22 because he was seen drinking beer at a festival with a friend who was younger than 21. The friend was not drinking.  Something about drinking in the presence of a minor being a morality problem.  The woman who caused the fuss was a ... strident troublemaker.  DH said he could have fought it, but by that point he really didn't care. 

[marbel]

I  don't mind dissenting views.. I didn't mean for this to be a jawm though I did ask for encouragement. I knew there might be some because I know there are many families who are dedicated to Scouts and all that entails.   I didn't find any of the dissenting views to be discouraging and I still appreciate the input!

[Susan in TN]

Breathe deeply.  Your son will be OK.  My husband didn't care for scouting as a boy and never finished the program, but he is now involved in scouting with our sons, and at this time in his life he finds it very rewarding.  He has no regrets.

 

((Hugs))

[jen3kids]

My older ds is 16.5 as well.  He has 3 MB to finish, plus his project.  He actually met with our pastor to discuss a project and he was excited about it.  That was back in October.  He hasn't been to a meeting since then, and I'm not sure if he'll go back.  He always 'takes a break' during wrestling season, but this time it's different - he hasn't been to any meetings since practice started.

 

I'm sad, because when he was 11 and bridged over, he was so excited and I got involved and I love it.  I do think he will regret not finishing, but he has lost interest in the meetings - new SM, he's the 2nd oldest boy, he has no patience for the younger boys, the meetings are not interesting to him.

 

He does love hiking, camping and canoeing and would go just for fun with friends if possible.  He rechartered for this year only so he could go to SeaBase this summer.  Now there is talk of going to Northern Tier next summer and he'd love to go there a 2nd time.  

 

Younger ds is 12.5 and he is nearly Star.  I have no idea if he will finish or not.  I think he will, but I also thought that about my oldest!

 

All that said, if they chose to quit, I don't think either of them will have wasted their time - they have definitely learned a lot and had lots of great trips.  If they don't earn their Eagle, I will be disappointed, but not in them personally, just for myself.

 

 

[tabinfl]

I was a Girl Scout, but quit (in favor of musical pursuits) before making it to First Class (the equivalent of Gold Award back then). The difference? As a GS leader, I don't have the Gold Award pin to wear like my friend does. While scouts was a great experience, I had many other skill- and character-building opportunities along my path.

 

My husband wasn't ever a Boy Scout, but is as much of an upstanding, successful man (husband, father, business owner, philanthropist) as any Eagle Scout I know.

 

Give him the chance to follow his interests, be a role model for him, provide other ways he can achieve the things you see as the key advantages of BSA. He'll be fine.

[Seasider]

Went through the same thing here with my son opting out at the rank of Life Scout. It's hard when it's that close. Of course my son's reasons were different than yours' but I listened to him and respect his decision. I won't go into detail but will say that I found his reasons to be valid and mature minded. I let him know that we supported him. Also, that if he had a change of heart in a few months, he would still have time to go for Eagle before aging out.

 

As a strong proponent of scouting, it was hard on me! But I am learning that my young man is growing wings to fly, good strong ones, even if they lack the BSA logo. In the end, that's what truly matters.

[Shellydon]

Meh.  I had never even heard of the Eagle Award thing until last year. DH is a super successful Ph.D. and was never a scout.  We won't enroll our son in Scouts.  It really isn't a big deal, I wouldn't waste any time worrying about it.

[livetoread]

I do think there is often a difference between boys who dropped out early or who never planned on getting Eagle, and those who got Life but never did the last few things. I, too, heard several men tell my son wistfully that they made Life but just never finished. They strongly encouraged my son to finish.

 

I'm sure your son will be able to get similar experiences elsewhere if he chooses. Getting Eagle is a cool thing, but there are many paths to success. However, I also think there is a good chance he will regret not doing it later, having come so close. That's ok, there's a lesson there too. We all regret things we didn't do; he won't be unique there.

[ThisIsTheDay]

No experience, just :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Pippen]

My cousin quit one merit badge and an ES project away from making Eagle Scout. I've never heard of him speak of any regrets, but I don't think his parents ever forgave him because they'd sacrificed a lot of time, energy, and money through the years. It didn't ruin his life. He's a (generally) law abiding citizen, successful business owner, has health insurance and a family. He's far more responsible and/or ethical than his siblings, one of whom did make Eagle Scout.

 

At age 17 my cousin was just done with Scouting. It wasn't where he was at in life anymore and finishing up wasn't going to make any difference in his chosen career. If he would have stuck with it the only reason would have been to placate his parents.

 

 

[justasque]

Meh.  I had never even heard of the Eagle Award thing until last year. ...  It really isn't a big deal, I wouldn't waste any time worrying about it.

I agree, of course, that Eagle is not essential for success in life.

 

But it *is* a big deal.  I have been to "Accepted Students Day" five times, at several well-regarded, selective colleges.  This is an event where the college welcomes the students who have been accepted, and, knowing that many are still deciding whether to attend (vs. going to another school where they've been accepted), tries to put their best foot forward.  Part of that is usually a speech from the head of the school, which always features info about the strength of the incoming class.  The message is, "Look at the strength of the students who will be your peers if you come to this school.  You should be proud to have been accepted, and you should be confident that you will get a rigorous education here, because your classmates will be up for it."  They always mention average SAT/ACT scores, the number of National Merit Scholars, the number of AP scholars, and a handful of other stats.  Every single time, at every school I've been to, they've mentioned the number of Eagle Scouts.  It *is* something that these schools value, and that they feel communicates to their audience the strength of their incoming class.  

Is it essential?  Of course not.  But "it really isn't a big deal" is simply not accurate.

 

If the OP's son is 16.5 and has a lot of badge work and a project yet to complete, his efforts may be better spent elsewhere (though the idea of a Venture Crew is a good one).  On the other hand, in the case of a previous poster whose son is 16.5 and 3 badges and a project away, it might be worth making a rough plan for what it would take to get the Eagle requirements finished before he turns 18, because it is still very much within reach.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I agree, of course, that Eagle is not essential for success in life.

 

But it *is* a big deal.  I have been to "Accepted Students Day" five times, at several well-regarded, selective colleges.  This is an event where the college welcomes the students who have been accepted, and, knowing that many are still deciding whether to attend (vs. going to another school where they've been accepted), tries to put their best foot forward.  Part of that is usually a speech from the head of the school, which always features info about the strength of the incoming class.  The message is, "Look at the strength of the students who will be your peers if you come to this school.  You should be proud to have been accepted, and you should be confident that you will get a rigorous education here, because your classmates will be up for it."  They always mention average SAT/ACT scores, the number of National Merit Scholars, the number of AP scholars, and a handful of other stats.  Every single time, at every school I've been to, they've mentioned the number of Eagle Scouts.  It *is* something that these schools value, and that they feel communicates to their audience the strength of their incoming class.  

Is it essential?  Of course not.  But "it really isn't a big deal" is simply not accurate.

 

If the OP's son is 16.5 and has a lot of badge work and a project yet to complete, his efforts may be better spent elsewhere (though the idea of a Venture Crew is a good one).  On the other hand, in the case of a previous poster whose son is 16.5 and 3 badges and a project away, it might be worth making a rough plan for what it would take to get the Eagle requirements finished before he turns 18, because it is still very much within reach.

 

That really isn't great evidence of it being a "big deal."  I am not familiar with its effect on military careers, but other than that it is really equivalent to a variety of extracurricular achievements/honors.  Once someone is past the college application phase, it is something that is not relevant to job applications, just like the vast majority of the other awards/honors earned in high school.

 

[livetoread]

Nm

[DianeW88]

My dh received his Eagle at 13.  My oldest son has his Eagle.  My youngest son will also be getting his Eagle in the next couple of years.  It's important to my dh.  He was hired for every job he applied for as a teen right away because of his Eagle.  It helped him in his college admissions process as well.  Scouts is tied into our church, so all the boys participate until they're 18.  Most (but not all) get their Eagles.  I've found Scouts to be a positive experience for my sons, and they've enjoyed everything they've done.  They go on great camping adventures in Southern Utah, and have learned so many skills that have helped them in life.

 

If your son is close to getting his Eagle, I would encourage him to pursue it.  If he's nowhere close, then I'd let him drop it.

[Loowit]

My DH is an eagle scout.  He does have guys tell him at times they they wish they had stuck it out, but not something that they dwell over a lot.  DH always encourages them with what they did accomplish.  Many made 1 class or above and he tells that that that is an accomplishment.  OTOH, my dad was a boy scout until he aged out and when asked he has no idea what rank he made it to.  He doesn't care.  If you ask him he loved scouts. He loved camping and the service projects in his area.  That to him was what was important, not the badges he earned.

 

My DH encourages scouts to try to make it to 1st class and beyond that it needs to be their idea.  DH's parents were very supportive of him, but I would say that he did all the work himself.  He was in a Troop that we boy led and the boys had to take on the responsibility for themselves.  DH never makes a big deal about being an Eagle Scout.  It is not something he brags about or even brings up unless asked.  He does put in on his resume, at the advice of his aunt who works in HR, and after he added it he did seem to get more calls.  It isn't essential, but it is a nice plus.

 

My older DS crosses over tonight into DH's old troop.  He has the goal to get Eagle.  We will help him on the way when we can, but it has to be his goal and his idea.  I would love to see him get his Eagle, and try not to be disappointed if he changes his mind.  I am already thinking that younger DS won't stick it out to Eagle, he just isn't as into the program as his dad and brother.

 

But I will second the idea of seeing if your DS would want to look into Venturing.  He could still work on his Eagle and get to do other things that regular troops may not be doing.  A lot of boys get bored with Boy Scouts as they get older and sometimes a bit if change helps.  My DH became an Explorer and that was a nice change for him.

[marbel]

I will have him look into Venturing, thanks for that.  I had known about that but forgotten.  The bonus is our daughter could do that too.

 

We did talk about the potential for regrets.  I also told him he may not come back to me in x number of years and blame me and his dad for letting him quit. I think he is aware of the potential (at least he says he is) but his experience with former Scouts with regrets is that they turn into pushy dads whose kids hate being in Scouts but have to because dad didn't finish.  I'm sure they are not all like that but that's been his experience.

 

During the past couple of years my son missed a lot of meetings because of sickness.  None of the teen leadership ever checked in on him, told him he was missed, etc.  That surprised me a bit; I don't know if it bothered him or not.  He has had good and bad SPLs over the years; maybe if the guy who'd been his first SPL was still around things would be different.  Ah well! 

 

Someone mentioned that we all have regrets.  That's true.  Like most parents I want to save my kids from the obvious ones. But we can't always do that either.  He will have to own this one, for better or worse. 

[CaffeineDiary]

Your son is not going to regret quitting scouting.  Odds are, your son will never even think about scouts at all unless and until he has kids of his own and needs to decide whether to have them participate.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.  Really.  It's not med school, or ROTC, it's boy scouts.  He made his own decision.  He will be fine.  Let it go.

 

 

I keep reminding myself that while most Eagle Scouts become successful men, all successful men are not Eagle Scouts.

 

 

Most successful men are not Eagle Scouts.  Most successful men weren't in BSA at all.  I think you should trust that your kid is making the right call for himself and stop hovering over this decision (emotionally, at least).  That's my advice.  Good luck.

 

[Catwoman]

Your son is not going to regret quitting scouting. Odds are, your son will never even think about scouts at all unless and until he has kids of his own and needs to decide whether to have them participate.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill. Really. It's not med school, or ROTC, it's boy scouts. He made his own decision. He will be fine. Let it go.

 

Most successful men are not Eagle Scouts. Most successful men weren't in BSA at all. I think you should trust that your kid is making the right call for himself and stop hovering over this decision (emotionally, at least). That's my advice. Good luck.

While I agree with you that most successful men aren't Eagle Scouts, I don't think you have the slightest clue about whether or not marbel's ds will have any regrets about quitting.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I think marbel knows her own son a lot better than we do, so if she is concerned that he may have regrets, I'm going to take her at her word.

 

The fact is, Scouting is very important to many people and many families. Clearly, it's not important to you -- and I don't have any Scouts in my family, either -- but I think it's pretty rude and flippant to act like it's meaningless.

[CaffeineDiary]

Clearly, it's not important to you -- and I don't have any Scouts in my family, either -- but I think it's pretty rude and flippant to act like it's meaningless.

 

It's also pretty rude to put words in other people's mouths, like you're doing here.  Just saying.

 

The title of this thread is "Help me get a grip."  I'll suggest that you're doing the opposite of what the OP asked.  She specifically asked, "And all we ever hear is how men end up regretting not pushing all the way. So I would love to hear from some people who have no regrets. Moms or Dads of boys who left and lived to tell the tale."   So between you and me, Catwoman, there's only one of us that is ignoring what marbel asked, and it isn't me.

 

My life experience of people, and of 16 year olds, and of the men they grow up to be, tells me that the average well-adjusted man doesn't sit around regretting quitting an extracurricular activity, and if I met a middle-aged man who seriously did rue it in any consequential way, I'd feel sorry for him for not moving past such a trivial issue.  Marbel, I don't know who you're talking such that "all we ever hear is how men end up regretting not pushing all the way," but i think this has to be some sort of echo-chamber effect.  Are you hearing this from other parents who are heavily invested in Scouting?  If so, I think the sample is probably very heavily skewed.

 

I'm doing the OP the courtesy of presuming that her son has his head screwed on straight.  Would that you would do her the same courtesy.  She discussed the issue with him.  He persisted in his course.   At 16, he's capable of making this kind of decision for himself, and in my opinion it would be disrespectful of his agency to push overly hard on this.  I assume Marbel feels the same way, otherwise her post would be "Help me convince my son to change his mind about leaving scouting" rather than "Help me get a grip."

 

In the long run, it really doesn't matter what you think about scouting.  It matters what he thinks about scouting.  Scouting is supposed to help people become "responsible and participating citizens".  Responsible citizens get to make their own decisions about how they spend their time.  That's what growing up is about. 

[mhaddon]

I know many Eagle Scouts that really didn't retain much... I'm not sure it's the greatest thing ever. Honestly if he's interested in the military he will be just fine witout it. I wasn't an Eagle Scout and I really don't think it would have helped me. I still went in as an E3, you only go in as an E1 if you've made Eagle. I know that a lot of my friends that were going to school to be Conservation Officers either had to have Eagle Scout or military service, but other than that I've never heard it making a big difference. I know it would look good on a resume, but so will miiliarty service. In all honsty if my children want to go the military route I would never push Scouts if they didn't want to. On the other hand I would find them a good college and enroll them in ROTC to pay for school, and they would be way better off.

[myfunnybunch]

Thanks to all for your responses!  So kind and helpful.

 

I agree with those who suggest I examine my own investment in it.  I think it is just a general sense of loss. 

 

:grouphug:  Of course it is. Because you are also losing something.

 

We don't do Scouts. But I imagine your reaction is very similar to my sister's when her daughter decided to quit gymnastics after several years. Or mine when one of my sons was considering quitting his choir.

 

Parents who invest a great deal of time and energy into a child's activity can naturally feel a sense of loss too when that activity comes to an end. And by investing in the activity, I don't mean anything unhealthy--someone has to chaperone, and help with events, and coordinate snacks, and sew costumes, and cut out a bazillion little paper hearts for the Valentine's craft, and make phone calls, and help with fundraisers, and...well, probably most of us know that this list is nearly endless! I have built friendships with other parents involved in my kids' activities. I've invested a great deal of my own time, energy, and money. I have wonderful memories. I look forward to my boys saying, "I've been doing this since kindergarten" when they sing in their graduation concert.

 

It's their activity, and they can decide to stop at any time, but that doesn't mean that I won't grieve a little when it's over whether they quit tomorrow or stick with it until the end.

 

It's okay to have your own feelings about your ds stopping, as long as you let your ds have his, and I hear you really wanting to respect his feelings while you struggle with your own. :grouphug: Totally normal.

 

One thing to consider regarding the value of Eagle Scout:

I volunteer on scholarship selection committees for our state scholarship commission. Eagle Scout does carry weight on scholarship applications, particularly those scholarships that are looking for community service and leadership in addition to academics. I'm not saying one way or the other whether your son should stay or not. I firmly believe it's his decision. At the same time, it's certainly something worthy of considering as a part of his decision.

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

It's also pretty rude to put words in other people's mouths, like you're doing here. Just saying.

 

The title of this thread is "Help me get a grip." I'll suggest that you're doing the opposite of what the OP asked. She specifically asked, "And all we ever hear is how men end up regretting not pushing all the way. So I would love to hear from some people who have no regrets. Moms or Dads of boys who left and lived to tell the tale." So between you and me, Catwoman, there's only one of us that is ignoring what marbel asked, and it isn't me.

 

My life experience of people, and of 16 year olds, and of the men they grow up to be, tells me that the average well-adjusted man doesn't sit around regretting quitting an extracurricular activity, and if I met a middle-aged man who seriously did rue it in any consequential way, I'd feel sorry for him for not moving past such a trivial issue. Marbel, I don't know who you're talking such that "all we ever hear is how men end up regretting not pushing all the way," but i think this has to be some sort of echo-chamber effect. Are you hearing this from other parents who are heavily invested in Scouting? If so, I think the sample is probably very heavily skewed.

 

I'm doing the OP the courtesy of presuming that her son has his head screwed on straight. Would that you would do her the same courtesy. She discussed the issue with him. He persisted in his course. At 16, he's capable of making this kind of decision for himself, and in my opinion it would be disrespectful of his agency to push overly hard on this. I assume Marbel feels the same way, otherwise her post would be "Help me convince my son to change his mind about leaving scouting" rather than "Help me get a grip."

 

In the long run, it really doesn't matter what you think about scouting. It matters what he thinks about scouting. Scouting is supposed to help people become "responsible and participating citizens". Responsible citizens get to make their own decisions about how they spend their time. That's what growing up is about.

Wow. Judgmental much? :glare:

 

I'm pretty sure that Marbel knows my intentions are good, so I'm not even going to waste time arguing with you about that. Clearly, you don't have a clue as to my motivation.

 

You are being intentionally offensive when you suggest that I don't think marbel's son "has his head screwed on straight." That is absolutely ridiculous. Thank goodness marbel knows me a whole lot better than you do, as I would never want her to think for a single moment that I would ever think such a thing.

 

You, on the other hand, are now suggesting that you'd "feel sorry" for any man who later regrets having quit Scouting, as you deem it "such a trivial issue." Just because you find Scouting to be trivial doesn't mean that it's not important to others.

 

But I guess you think we should all just bow to your superior judgment. :rolleyes:

[marbel]

Oh dear.  This thread has really taken on a life of its own, hasn't it now?  ;)

 

All the opinions and comments are interesting to me.  I think everyone spoke with goodwill and just expressed their own opinions based on their experiences with their own lives and kids.  I don't reject the notion that there might be negative consequences and/or regrets later, but no one can say with any certainty.  It's equally possible that something new and better will come up. In any case, life goes on, eh?   :) 

[Catwoman]

Oh dear. This thread has really taken on a life of its own, hasn't it now? ;)

 

All the opinions and comments are interesting to me. I think everyone spoke with goodwill and just expressed their own opinions based on their experiences with their own lives and kids. I don't reject the notion that there might be negative consequences and/or regrets later, but no one can say with any certainty. It's equally possible that something new and better will come up. In any case, life goes on, eh? :)

I think you've done everything right. Your ds expressed an interest in quitting, you talked it out with him to make sure it wasn't just a whim, and when you saw that he was serious, you went along with his wishes. I also think he was very smart to take a leave of absence, as it gives him time to be absolutely certain that quitting is the best possible decision.

 

BTW, I'm sorry to have gotten argumentative in your thread, but I got really annoyed when peterb suggested that I was ignoring what you'd asked and that I didn't think your ds had his head screwed on straight. It really rubbed me the wrong way, and I hope you didn't get the same impression from my posts.

[marbel]

I think you've done everything right. Your ds expressed an interest in quitting, you talked it out with him to make sure it wasn't just a whim, and when you saw that he was serious, you went along with his wishes. I also think he was very smart to take a leave of absence, as it gives him time to be absolutely certain that quitting is the best possible decision.

 

BTW, I'm sorry to have gotten argumentative in your thread, but I got really annoyed when peterb suggested that I was ignoring what you'd asked and that I didn't think your ds had his head screwed on straight. It really rubbed me the wrong way, and I hope you didn't get the same impression from my posts.

 

Are you kidding me?  Catwoman, I think you are one of the nicest people on this board. 

[Catwoman]

Are you kidding me? Catwoman, I think you are one of the nicest people on this board.

Awwww.... thanks! :001_wub:

[RanchGirl]

 If he is close and this was once an important goal to him, I would try to figure out if there is a way to make it work for him to complete it without making him miserable -- meaning if there have been changes in the group or whatever, can you fix that, find a new troop?  But if he is dealing with health issues and/or he just really hates scouting now, I wouldn't push.

 

My husband made Eagle. We have 3 boys and he has never encouraged Scouting (he isnt against it- our boys are just into different things). He thinks being an Eagle is overrated and not something that impacted his future or success in any way.

 

This is my husband's thought as well.  In his family, Scouting was everything and you didn't get your license until you were an Eagle.  His parents were both really into it, in fact his father stayed involved well after his kids were grown and did the summer camps and stuff.  My dh enjoyed and has some good memories, but looking back wished he had been able to do more in sports.   His parents didn't support his interest in sports at all, and that bugs him a lot now.  They also weren't terribly helpful in encouraging/pushing academics, just Scouting.  It was the most important thing to them.

 

My boys both started as Cub Scouts but it got too difficult with scheduling and although my dh liked the other dads who participated, and the boys each had 1 or 2 pleasant kids in their dens, there were also some really unpleasant kids and they drove my dh crazy.  Naturally their parents never were around or when they were, ignored the misbehavior.  It also became a problem with scheduling.  My boys don't miss it, they much prefer baseball, basketball, wakeboarding, competition math, musical theatre, and piano.  We camp, but it's in an air conditioned trailer overlooking a lake with our boat at the dock.  They know how to start campfires and fish, and I don't think they will regret not proceeding in Scouts at all.

 

I'm also not convinced it's a huge asset on a resume, but I suppose that varies depending on who you're trying to impress.

 

If a family can do Scouting but stay well rounded, or the kids are pushing for it, then that's great.  But having an Eagle and not enjoying it and missing out on things you would enjoy seems like a sad waste to me.

[umsami]

My Dad dropped out before Eagle Scout.  He was an extremely successful physician, but always regretted that to some degree. He's encouraged my boys to go all the way.   Did not having it make him less successful? No…but still, it was a regret.  

 

I can tell you that as somebody who used to work at a Fortune 50 company, it was something that mattered on job applications.  Of course, it wouldn't get anybody the job, but could be the deciding factor in getting the interview, having an opportunity to make an impression, etc.  Even with an MBA, experience at other well-known companies, etc., Eagle Scout still mattered.   Many of the senior executive men throughout the minor companies were Eagle Scouts, so at least where I worked, it seemed to be part of the "boys club".

 

I truly believe it's worth pushing through the discomfort, if he's so close.  Yes, there are lessons to be learned either way, but depending on where he wants to go in his life, it's far more likely to open doors, than close them.   I think that could be part of the reason his decision bothers you, because you know it's something he will not be able to go back and change once he ages out.

 

I know it's something we may face in the future, so you have my sympathy. 

[RanchGirl]

But it *is* a big deal.  I have been to "Accepted Students Day" five times, at several well-regarded, selective colleges.  This is an event where the college welcomes the students who have been accepted, and, knowing that many are still deciding whether to attend (vs. going to another school where they've been accepted), tries to put their best foot forward.  Part of that is usually a speech from the head of the school, which always features info about the strength of the incoming class.  The message is, "Look at the strength of the students who will be your peers if you come to this school.  You should be proud to have been accepted, and you should be confident that you will get a rigorous education here, because your classmates will be up for it."  They always mention average SAT/ACT scores, the number of National Merit Scholars, the number of AP scholars, and a handful of other stats.  Every single time, at every school I've been to, they've mentioned the number of Eagle Scouts.  It *is* something that these schools value, and that they feel communicates to their audience the strength of their incoming class.  

Is it essential?  Of course not.  But "it really isn't a big deal" is simply not accurate.

 

Justasque, that is interesting, could you share which colleges these were?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

My Dad dropped out before Eagle Scout.  He was an extremely successful physician, but always regretted that to some degree. He's encouraged my boys to go all the way.   Did not having it make him less successful? No…but still, it was a regret.  

 

I can tell you that as somebody who used to work at a Fortune 50 company, it was something that mattered on job applications.  Of course, it wouldn't get anybody the job, but could be the deciding factor in getting the interview, having an opportunity to make an impression, etc.  Even with an MBA, experience at other well-known companies, etc., Eagle Scout still mattered.   Many of the senior executive men throughout the minor companies were Eagle Scouts, so at least where I worked, it seemed to be part of the "boys club".

 

I truly believe it's worth pushing through the discomfort, if he's so close.  Yes, there are lessons to be learned either way, but depending on where he wants to go in his life, it's far more likely to open doors, than close them.   I think that could be part of the reason his decision bothers you, because you know it's something he will not be able to go back and change once he ages out.

 

I know it's something we may face in the future, so you have my sympathy. 

 

I am sorry, but I have never seen Eagle Scout taken seriously in the corporate world for someone past an entry level position (and even that gets side eyed.) 

[Pod's mum]

I must hang around with the wrong people.

Every time I see BSA, I think British Small Arms, and the ensignia on some beautiful old motorbikes.

If I had a son into 'Beesas', I would be very upset if he tried to quit.