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What is your FIRST thought when you see this picture?


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One of my first thoughts was that could have been a picture of my mother as a child. The clothing, mother in the picture, setting and child herself would have looked different but when I asked my mother how old she was when she learned to shoot a gun she said that she cannot remember ever not knowing how to shoot a gun. She is still an excellent shot as a retired grandmother with two prosthetic hips.

 

I realize that teaching a child that young to shoot is not the safest idea in the world but my mother grew up in a very rural area and it was probably alot more normal in that place and time. Hunting was probably the main reason for the presence of guns in the house. However, I strongly suspect that Mom's second dh's knowledge of her ability to shoot prevented violence when she divorced him.

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What bothered me most were the words. Like Regentrude, I believe you can raise your girls to be strong women who won't end up with loser boyfriends/husbands that they need protection from. And it doesn't involve giving them guns. Go to college, get an excellent education and means of independence, hang around with others who do the same, grow up before you marry, and while you may choose a lifestyle where guns are helpful (hunting, living on a ranch, policework), you won't need it to protect yourself from bad relationship choices.

 

Please do not assume that domestic violence only happens to women who were not raised to be strong. Please do not assume that domestic violence only happens in homes with people we can pick out as loser boyfriends/husbands. Please do not assume that women with advanced degrees, who hang out with the right crowd, who have their own successful careers, and who married as fully grown independent ladies will not end up in an abusive or dangerous relationship. This line of thinking can lead to those women being the least likely to seek help and the most likely to feel ashamed. Most studies show that it is less common for women with those characteristics, but the difference is not huge. Other studies show no difference in rates among the social classes.

 

The caption.

 

 

 

 

 

Even if the intent was to train the daughter to protect herself, it doesn't mean that the mother is telling her that. I tell my kids not to get in cars with strangers but I don't tell them that people may want to rape them, KWIM?

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My first thought is that the photo definitely looks posed. No eye protection for the child, no apparent ear protection for either mother or child. I doubt any real shooting was about to occur.

 

That said, what bothers me about the photo is that it looks like that is too much gun for the child. Other than wanting to try to shoot Mom's or Dad's gun with their help, no child should shoot a gun so heavy that they can't control the weight themselves. Also, I question teaching young children to shoot independently because of their lack of focus and short attention span. It is too easy for young children to forget the safety rules.

 

Regarding the wording and the response I have read here, gun training does not make you feel fearful. The knowledge that you can protect yourself if you feel the need makes you feel empowered and safe, not scared. If guns scare some of you, that is your issue to deal with. It is not universally felt by others.

 

Now, beyond that and to address some other comments. I am tired of biting my tongue here. While everyone is welcome to their opinion and this is supposed to be a place where we can openly express those opinions, it was my understanding that we are to strive to keep it civil and try not to offend others. I find most of the anti-gun rhetoric here to be quite offensive. I have a Constitutional right to own a gun, it is my business if I choose to train my child in the proper use of guns, in a safe and legal manner.

 

My dd shot at a young age, with the help of her df and I. None of us bear any resemblance to escapees from the set of Honey Boo Boo, Bill. Not surprisingly, I found that post of yours to be highly offensive. Are stereotypes the accepted order of the day, so long as you pick on the right group?

 

If many of you here choose not to own guns or teach your children about them, fine. That is your choice. I live in a rural area, on a small farm, adjacent to several thousand acres of wild, undeveloped land. I chose to own guns, to protect myself and my family, to protect our livestock, and just because I can - it is my legal right. I chose to teach my child about safe gun use. FTR, she has shot competitively since she was 9, in pistol, rifle, and shotgun.

 

There are many things that many of you do that are legal, but that I think are ridiculous. However, in an attempt to keep within the bounds of the forum rules, I usually refrain from such inflammatory remarks. I have refrained from snarky remarks and telling people how ignorant I think they are, because I feel that such behavior is not civil and has no place on this forum. Apparently, many of you have another perspective.

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My first thought was "where is the ear protection?" I see I am not the first. I didn't think about eye protection till I saw someone else mentioned it.

 

I am not troubled by the idea of a young girl learning how to handle a gun. It would have been better (easier to take seriously) if the mother/child had ear/eye protection and were shown at a shooting range rather than (apparently) a back yard. (Not that there's anything wrong with shooting in the back yard, assuming it's safe.)

 

Why on earth would shooting lessons make someone more fearful? Target shooting can also be a lot of fun.

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Please do not assume that domestic violence only happens to women who were not raised to be strong. Please do not assume that domestic violence only happens in homes with people we can pick out as loser boyfriends/husbands. Please do not assume that women with advanced degrees, who hang out with the right crowd, who have their own successful careers, and who married as fully grown independent ladies will not end up in an abusive or dangerous relationship. This line of thinking can lead to those women being the least likely to seek help and the most likely to feel ashamed. Most studies show that it is less common for women with those characteristics, but the difference is not huge. Other studies show no difference in rates among the social classes.

 

 

 

Even if the intent was to train the daughter to protect herself, it doesn't mean that the mother is telling her that. I tell my kids not to get in cars with strangers but I don't tell them that people may want to rape them, KWIM?

:iagree: My mother's second dh who I mentioned in an earlier post did not seem to be a "loser" initially and my mother owned her home and had a job that required a degree. She is a very strong woman but I do not necessarily believe that that is the only thing that kept us safe.

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I though some more about what bothered me most about it, and it is not the gun per se: it is teaching a young girl that people are bad, relationships are dangerous, and one has to be constantly on guard and ready to defend oneself (if needed, by firearm.)

This is so contrary to the world in which I grew up, and the picture about relationships my parents modeled and instilled in us. I grew up expecting to find a good person with whom to spend my life, and I did, as did my parents, grandparents, extended family. I am most concerned not about the gun in the picture, but about the lesson this child is being taught about relationships: she is taught to expect the worst. I wonder about self-fulfilling prophesies, and I wonder whether girls like this can grow up to develop the trust and security needed to engage in a healthy and stable relationship.

 

 

Hmmm. I don't know. I have life insurance, auto insurance and homeowners insurance. It's not because I expect the worst. It gives me peace of mind (and keeps me from getting ticketed for not having it :tongue_smilie: ).

 

And we have no idea what lessons this child is being taught. It's just a fraction of a second of her life we are seeing here. I doubt it's even a real shooting session.

 

Also, couldn't we make the same argument about martial arts? That's generally perceived to be great confidence builder, but with enough training, a person could become lethal with their bare hands. Some would even say that is their intent. Not many, but they are out there. It IS very common for self defense to be the main focus. Even for little kids.

 

Why can't shooting sports be a confidence builder like any other sport? Becoming competent at something makes a person feel competent.

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And we have no idea what lessons this child is being taught. It's just a fraction of a second of her life we are seeing here. I doubt it's even a real shooting session.

 

Also, couldn't we make the same argument about martial arts? That's generally perceived to be great confidence builder, but with enough training, a person could become lethal with their bare hands. Some would even say that is their intent. Not many, but they are out there. It IS very common for self defense to be the main focus. Even for little kids.

 

Why can't shooting sports be a confidence builder like any other sport? Becoming competent at something makes a person feel competent.

 

My problem is NOT with the girl being taught to shoot. My problem is with the caption. To me, the caption suggests the lesson taught is that the girl needs to expect having to shoot a human at some point in her life.

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I have no problem teaching kids gun safety. I can't say I'd teach shooting until high school. Of course, I absolutely forbid firearms in my household. I do have my kids take martial arts, and they are allowed to have pocket knives if they prove safety and responsibility with them. My kids take Aikido which is NOT about offensive skills at all and I honestly have never, ever, ever met someone who went farther than a yellow belt in martial arts who used violence unnecessarily in any situation. I can't say the same for guns. Guns only purpose is shooting and usually killing. Martial arts teaches discipline, skill, physical control, strength, peace, and self-defense. WAY different.

 

I don't try to teach them the worst that could happen, by any means. Most of their Aikido teaches them peace and the knives we use primarily for outdoor skills-camping, etc. But I am realistic and teach them safety. The book Protecting the Gift is great for this. I work on teaching them to follow their instincts and how to have common sense about their safety.

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I don't like it at all. I don't know why on earth a tiny girl would have to ever shoot a gun, esp. one that she can barely hold up on her own. I'm fine with people teaching their older children to shoot, but seeing her that young just makes me sad.

 

I hate guns.

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First thought when I saw the pic? She is young, but I was taught to use a gun at a very young age also. I don't think I was 4yo (my assumed age for the kid in the photo) but definitely under 8. My parents were active hunters. I could reload bullets on my own by the time I was 7-8yo. My parents had guns in many rooms of our home, from antique, to hunting rifles, shot guns and a hand gun beside the bed.

 

We were all taught to shoot very young, so that we would know the dangers of a gun, gun safety and to take the novelty away from the dangerous items that were in every part of our lives. We not only knew what a gun would do to a target, we saw in real life what it would do to a skull of an animal/person (my mom went for head shots). We never had an instance of us kids playing or handling ANY of the guns in our home without supervision, even though they were readily available and unlocked (some even loaded).

 

 

I can assume the caption is not necessarily what what was happening in the picture and that it was added solely to inflame.

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I think anyone who "likes" the photo is an idiot. Simple as that.

 

I guess I'm an idiot in your eyes then

 

I see a strong woman teaching her daughter.

 

My sister taught my niece and nephew to shoot (each) at age 8. They handled guns before that.

 

We don't have guns in the house (yet) but they are at my sister's house and my father brings them over. My son is not yet 6 and we have already talked to him about what he should do if he finds a gun (anywhere). And he's handled my dad's guns under supervision. (Yes, handguns too) It helps prevent the curiousity aspect if they know they can learn more by having an adult there. My daughter will do the same as soon as she shows she can understand.

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First thought? I wonder if the mother of this child knows how this picture has been used and circulated around the net with a tagline that may or may not have anything to do with the reasons behind said picture.

 

Beyond that, whose business is it if this person wants to teach their child how to shoot? Presumably, if she is the mother she is doing what she feels is right for her kid just like all the rest of us are. More children need to be taught how to first respect guns and then how to properly shoot them instead of opting to fear them. I think it's a basic skill that all children and adults alike should learn. At this child's age there is nothing wrong with learning safety, how a gun feels, sighting, aiming etc. Most people don't bat an eye when it's a boy shooting with his dad, why all the fuss when it's a girl?

 

Exactly! Without knowing the context of the original picture, it's impossible to assess what was truly happening when it was taken. The woman, presumed to be the mom, and child in the picture are quite possibly far removed from whomever added the caption. No real judgement should be formed without knowing the location, purpose, status of the subject handgun, etc.

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My first thought: teach your DD to develop healthy self esteem, critical thinking, and independence - because this will greatly reduce her need for a restraining order against some loser boyfriend or husband.

I can not fathom teaching a small child to shoot with the motivation that she should know how to shoot a human.

 

This exactly. How many people raised in emotionally healthy families actually need a restraining order against someone at any point in their life?

 

We are not gun owners and we are urban. I feel perfectly safe with the decisions we make. I can't imagine indoctrinating a young child to think they may need to shoot a human someday as a top priority.

 

I have no issue with the 2nd amendment, hunting, shooting for sport, etc. And I am glad there are restraining orders and police. I do not understand this mindset that would come up with this caption at all. It's written just to be sensationalistic.

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First: "Why isn't that kid wearing hearing protection?" Second: "Is that a silencer? Holy crap!" I will teach my kids to shoot, but not that young, and with a familiarity/skill mentality, not a fear mentality. That picture weirds me out.

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I think there is alot of misassumption that the mother is teaching the comment on the poster to her dd. I strongly doubt she is telling her daughter "learn to shoot so you can protect yourself from some worthless guy". (and it doesn't even have to be some guy a girl dated and dumped. sometimes it's the guy who is really mad you won't date him.)

 

I do think the girl seems too young, but how old are boys being taught?

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I think there is a raw spot from the recent events in the news AND there is a debate going on about 2nd amendments rights.

This sometimes polarizes people into somewhat questionable expressions of their opinions.

 

If I had a daughter and she wanted to learn how to shoot, dh would have taught her as he taught our ds. I don't think I would have presented it as a "need to know to defend yourself" but rather as a perhaps useful or enjoyable skill to have like horse back riding and baking a cake. The girl in this picture looks very young. I don't think I would have encouraged it at such a young age for safety reasons.

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I'm less offended by the photo itself than the caption. I think there's a time and a place for teaching people to protect themselves, male or female, but at that age, the little girl probably just needs to know that her parents will protect her. (Which is what my 4yo knows.) I support the sentiment for older children, just maybe not quite that young.

 

However, when I look at that picture (aside from the caption), I see a child curious about something that a parent has, and I see the child handling the gun with her parent's hands on her (and the gun). I see early training in an age-appropriate way, which will then breed respect for the seriousness of firearms. Far, far cry from the parent who left a loaded gun unattended with a small child, who then killed a sibling. If my child is curious about a knife or fire, I would go over those things with the child, allowing them to handle them in a safe and appropriate way. That doesn't mean I'd hand them a sharp knife or matches; it means that I would guide them and possibly allow some handling of the potentially dangerous objects. (And before anyone jumps on me, no, I would not allow my child to drive or drink alcohol or take medicine just because he/she was curious. Let's be reasonable. But neither would I simply ignore the child's curiosity about such things; we'd have a discussion/demonstration/whatever was appropriate for the situation.) If my kids are curious about guns, sure, we will be happy to show them guns, discuss them, and possibly take them to a range where they can use a gun with a parent's hands on them at all times.

 

That being said, the thing that jumps out at me the most is that there's no eye protection on the child and no visible ear protection on either of them. That's a major no-no, *especially* with children, and it bugs me that gun rights advocates would choose to use *that* particular photo. If you're going to advocate for something, pick a good example.

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1st thought: Too young!

 

1st thought on reading the caption: ...unless you're a Black woman in Florida, in which case you'll get 20 years in prison for firing a warning shot at your abusive ex who is threatening to kill you and has put you in the hospital before.

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That being said, the thing that jumps out at me the most is that there's no eye protection on the child and no visible ear protection on either of them.

 

There is also the assumption that there are actual bullets in the gun and that the girl will be firing the weapon. I can see a scenario of a mother target shooting and the little girl wanting to know what it is like to look through the sights of an unloaded weapon (perhaps not the one being shot) - no need for eye or ear protection.

 

My impression is that this photo was picked up by some bozo who thought the caption added to it would make a relevant and powerful statement. Who knows where the original photo came from (it looks like a frame from a tv show, imo ). And it surely did arouse the ire of many as was its apparent intention. I hate manipulation...FB has plenty of that.

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A distant relative of mine went to jail for shooting her violent ex-husband whom she had a restraining order against and was in the process of beating her when she shot him. Don't believe that being a woman *or* having a restraining order will protect you in court.

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A distant relative of mine went to jail for shooting her violent ex-husband whom she had a restraining order against and was in the process of beating her when she shot him. Don't believe that being a woman *or* having a restraining order will protect you in court.

 

 

My aunt shot, but unfortunately, did not kill her ex when he was abusing her, yet again. She went to jail and missed my birth. Don't think a gun will make anything better, either. For her, it really only got worse.

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Here's my thoughts. (I'm not going to read this whole thread)

 

We live on a farm/ranch. In order for our children to be safe on our property they were taught young how to behave around horses, cattle, equipment. You can not take an 18 yr old kid and stick him on a tractor. In order to be able to safely drive that tractor that kid has to ride with dad in the combine when he's four, watch the guys change around the implements when he's five, watch mom saddle a horse and ride with her when he's little. They learn how to shift gears, read the dials, tell when a steer is going to charge you, know when a horse is getting cinchy. All of this is a basis for as safe as you can be on the farm.

 

Guns too. Ours learned gun safety young. Not as young as that, but the poster is exaggerating to make a point. You don't hand an eighteen yr old a gun. You don't hand a child a gun. But you can begin to teach a child gun safety at a young age.

 

And yeah. If someone wants to hurt you a restraining order isn't worth shit.

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I heartily disagree with you. Teaching a child to shoot when that is your family culture does NOT equal child soldiers being taken from their families and forced into war.

 

First, we do not know that all those children were removed from their families and forced into war; it may be, in fact, that participating in war and having guns are part of their family cultures too. Regardless, in all photos, I see children being inducted into a world of adult issues and standards when children are mentally & emotionally unable to process the true responsibility & impact that having (& shooting) a gun entail. I also find it hard to reconcile the statements that talk about gun safety (esp. to NEVER point a gun at anyone), yet the same posts state that the guns are for 'personal' protection. I realize personal protection can mean things like stopping a bear attack, etc...., yet realistically, many in the US live in urban & suburban areas & personal protection is often used to mean 'bad guys' (i.e. other humans), in which case you would indeed be teaching that aiming (& shooting) others is ok. As a society, I think we've gone down a slippery slope into devaluing human life because it has become too easy in our society to resort to ''us" (good people) vs. "them" (bad people). I wish we could actually remember the humanity of us all & build from those basics. I know that will not happen as people are too entrenched in their own beliefs & are unwilling to consider other viewpoints. As much as I dislike guns & weapons in general, I know they are a fact & are here to stay. But, perhaps, as a society, we should consider the real impact of consistently escalating vs. trying to decelerate the rate of weapon use. As I'm sure you can tell, I fall into the category of conscientious objector & I know my views are in the minority (esp. here on this board), but I like hoping for my naĂƒÂ¯ve dream of humans being able to coexist peacefully w/out the need to pack weapons in their homes, public buildings, churches, etc.... <Yes, you may cue John Lennon's "Imagine" here....> (And I apologize for no breaks in my post; using my ds' computer & the enter key is not working on this board for some reason.)
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I was taught to shoot and respect guns at about age 5. I never felt curious about them, or tried to sneak a look at them, because they were not a big deal to me. I held respect for their power, and how dangerous they could be if handled incorrectly.

 

I helped teach an Eddie Eagle Gun Safe class to a group of Tiger Cubs (1st grade), and the parents who had been a bit iffy on the class were thrilled at the end of it. Knowledge is power as well as safety.

 

I am getting my CCW in about 2 weeks - my DH has wanted me to for a long time. I have a high IQ, am in a wonderful relationship, and can't imagine when I'd need a restraining order, and I hope I never ever have to pull a gun out of a holster with the intent to shoot someone. But having the ability and the tools to protect myself and the people around me is all about being over-prepared and hoping that there is never a time to need the skill and weapon.

 

I have known very intelligent women who have been put in bad positions and who would have been well served by having a CCW. Education, self awareness, situational awareness - all are great, but evil is also intelligent and prepared.

 

 

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My first thought was "good for her knowing to keep her finger up on the frame and off the trigger." There are plenty of adults who could benefit from that habit.

 

 

Nice to see someone else noticed that. :)

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If more kids were taught gun safety beyond "don't touch, tell an adult" there would be a lot less accidental deaths.

 

I have my concealed carry license and carry daily. My sons are 25 and 21, both know how to safely handle and shoot. My girls are 17 and 7. My 17 yr old comes to the range with me 2x a month to practice. She knows how to handle a gun and if someone threatened her I know she would do her best to defend herself. Legally she can't carry a gun til 21 yrs old, but the day she can, she will.

 

My 7 yr old has been taught gun safety by teaching her to shoot a BB gun. She handles it just like a real loaded gun and respects what a gun can do. She has not fired a real gun yet, but when I feel she is mature enough to do so, she will. I don't think there is an age limit, it all depends on the child.

 

All of my children have learned to respect the power of a gun. They have grown up around guns and to me it's just another part of getting dressed.. socks, shoes, underwear, gun. I feel naked without it. And no, I don't live in fear. It's actually quite the opposite. It's a very peaceful feeling knowing I have the ability to protect myself and my family if needed.

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Most women are sexually assaulted by men they already know, so the idea that some freaky guy is crawling through the window at night, is deceptive, and it's used to "sell" the idea of women's gun ownership.

 

One person on there has commented, "The sooner you teach them the better. if they understand what it is, how it works, and what it does, they will respect it and not have accidental shootings. It the same as you morons that want to wait til teenage years set boundaries for your kids. Its too late. You're a parent, not a friend." So, should toddlers have their own guns? And anyway, even trained police officers and military members are killed or wounded in accidental shootings, so being trained doesn't mean being perfect.

 

Anyway here's a website for you

http://www.gunsforthechildren.org/

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My first thought was to wonder why she is outside in her jammies.

 

The next was to be grateful I've never had a messed-up relationship requiring a restraining order.

 

The next was jealousy of the mother's figure.

 

Then I looked at the guns more closely and tried to come up with something, since I knew that is what I was supposed to be commenting on...

 

Seems like overkill. My kids shot BB guns when they were little, which to me is more appropriate; but then, I don't wear a gun around my hips.

 

My biggest beef is with the jammies outside and the crazy who messed up that mother's head so much.

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I agree with you. I know people say better to teach them young but I question that. Often those same people want to shield their kids from sex on tv, drugs, etc but they teach their kids how to shoot. How are young children mature enough for this? Most children feel to blame if their parents get divorced, we all know their not, but children have a hard time understanding they aren't to blame. So in that same light if someone broke in and a child knew to shoot I fear they would take it upon themselves to protect the family or worse bear responsibility emotionally if they didn't. I just thinkits too much, to soon.

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I agree with you. I know people say better to teach them young but I question that. Often those same people want to shield their kids from sex on tv, drugs, etc but they teach their kids how to shoot. How are young children mature enough for this? Most children feel to blame if their parents get divorced, we all know their not, but children have a hard time understanding they aren't to blame. So in that same light if someone broke in and a child knew to shoot I fear they would take it upon themselves to protect the family or worse bear responsibility emotionally if they didn't. I just thinkits too much, to soon.

 

Well - but responsible gun owners lock up their guns (either in safes or with trigger locks). My teen sons have absolutely zero access to any guns we own, but they do know how to shoot them. I also fail to see how sex on tv and drug usage can be compared to knowing how to use a gun????

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Like someone else said earlier, you don't just hand a gun to an 18 yr old and say "here". Depending on the child, you start when they are old enough to understand what a gun is all about. My 17 yr old can shoot just as well as I can, but I don't expect her to be the one to shoot an intruder. MY job is to protect my family. But, if she is home alone I know she can handle any of my guns safely.

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Well - but responsible gun owners lock up their guns (either in safes or with trigger locks). My teen sons have absolutely zero access to any guns we own, but they do know how to shoot them. I also fail to see how sex on tv and drug usage can be compared to knowing how to use a gun????

 

I agree, responsible gun owners do keep them secured. It still doesn't prevent a child from feelings that maybe they could have done something because they know how to shoot.

 

As far as tv, drugs I realize I wasn't clear. I do have friends who shoot handguns with young kids. These same friends are concerned about their children growing to fast and desire to shield them from so much of the world yet they teach hem to shoot handguns. To me it seems contradictory.

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As far as tv, drugs I realize I wasn't clear. I do have friends who shoot handguns with young kids. These same friends are concerned about their children growing to fast and desire to shield them from so much of the world yet they teach hem to shoot handguns. To me it seems contradictory.

 

Shooting can be a sport, like archery. Teaching kids to shoot doesn't necessarily mean they're being taught any particular worldview. Guns are a tool, like screwdrivers, and many people use them as part of a hobby, also like screwdrivers. If a dad was teaching his kid woodworking, no one would complain that he was trying to burden the kid with some grownup issues; same for shooting.

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