S/o sort of, Life with no car

[MEmama]

15 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Our area deliberately and overtly chose to not have sidewalks because they don’t want poor people and thought no sidewalks would keep the riffraff out. 

That should be criminal 😞 

[kbutton]

1 hour ago, Laura Corin said:

Some of this should be the choice of local government whether to insist on sidewalks as part of zoning. For example, a new housing development was built on the edge of a local town and the sidewalk out of the development to connect with the one by the public road did not allow a parent with a stroller and a couple of walking kids to make the turn safely. After public pressure,  the local government forced the developer to rip out and remake the sidewalk.

The town I am thinking of has a couple of issues. The sidewalks almost always go to literally the last step of the borough limits with very few exceptions (sometimes due to a challenging set of circumstances due to geography or only one house being there, etc.).

The other factor is that the best grocery store in town—locally owned and the recipient of mass loyalty in the community—sold out to a competitor with the mandate that the land and building couldn’t be sold to another grocery store. I’ve seen his wife make statements about how he’s rued that decision every day since then, and it’s been about thirty years. People were stunned, and rather than go to the competition in town, people with cars drove an hour to get groceries until a Walmart was put in the next town over and a new grocery store went up on the edge of town.

The zoning issues in this town killed employment opportunities multiple times at crucial times, and even though some of the people instrumental in that are probably dead now, it’s hard to get those opportunities back, but it has little to do with sidewalks in this case.

[Kassia]

4 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

 
 

Columbus, Ohio only has workable public transportation on campus at OSU. There is sorta decent bussing in an area north where there are lots and lots of poor and immigrant populations. Other than that there are sparse bus lines here and there. No train lines at all and Ohioans don’t want them. They just don’t understand how easy trains make life. Not many walkable areas either. Downtown or the smaller downtown suburbs have a bit of walkable shopping but you mostly have to drive TO those cute areas. If you want actual groceries you have to drive. Vast swaths of the city are not particularly walkable. 

 

2 hours ago, MEmama said:

I lived there for many years without a car. 🤷‍♀️

The bus system was terrific along the high street corridor, otherwise much less so. But it's a city full of walkable neighborhoods and areas where everything can easily be done without a car. Our experiences are very different, lol! 

One of my sons lived there for 6 1/2 years without a car.  He lives close to work, shopping, etc.  It worked well for him most of the time but he's glad to have a car now.  

@Harriet Vane I agree about the lack of trains.  That would make things so much easier.  

[Acorn]

I have lived in Milwaukee WI and a couple smaller college towns without a car. I have had coworkers bike to work in my current location. I never noticed anyone smelling. I think people might have used wet wipes. Most bikers wear quick dry fabrics or change at work.

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Kassia said:

 

One of my sons lived there for 6 1/2 years without a car.  He lives close to work, shopping, etc.  It worked well for him most of the time but he's glad to have a car now.  

@Harriet Vane I agree about the lack of trains.  That would make things so much easier.  

The High Street corridor is basically an extension from the OSU campus, so yeah, much better transport there. That area is not really representative of the rest of the city.

When I say walkable, I mean it’s easy and quick to walk from my house to grocery, church, and a handful of other options. There are many areas of the city where that’s not easily possible.

But of course I am definitely biased by having lived in Chicago for forty years. It is easy to get anywhere in Chicago on public transportation. Anywhere I would want to go in Chicago I usually have more than one viable option for getting there due to the layers of buses and two train systems. It’s much harder by car there because of the congestion. 

[ScoutTN]

6 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Well I mean someone has to live in the south.  Lol

Some of us really like living in the south! I detest winter and the heat doesn’t bother me. 

[Kassia]

11 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

The High Street corridor is basically an extension from the OSU campus, so yeah, much better transport there. That area is not really representative of the rest of the city.

When I say walkable, I mean it’s easy and quick to walk from my house to grocery, church, and a handful of other options. There are many areas of the city where that’s not easily possible.

But of course I am definitely biased by having lived in Chicago for forty years. It is easy to get anywhere in Chicago on public transportation. Anywhere I would want to go in Chicago I usually have more than one viable option for getting there due to the layers of buses and two train systems. It’s much harder by car there because of the congestion. 

He lives in Polaris area.  There are so many stores/restaurants there plus COTA but I don't think he used that much.

 

ETA - my other sons live in DC now and have gotten quite used to using public transportation all the time.  It's great.  

Edited February 24 by Kassia

[MEmama]

15 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

One of my sons lived there for 6 1/2 years without a car.  He lives close to work, shopping, etc.  It worked well for him most of the time but he's glad to have a car now.  

@Harriet Vane I agree about the lack of trains.  That would make things so much easier.  

They seemed so close to putting streetcars back in, and then Covid hit, or maybe it was an economic downturn? I can't remember but it seems dead now. Boo. Such a shame, it's a perfect streetcar city--and a lot of tracks are still there! 

[ScoutTN]

Family size might also be a variable. Grocery shopping on foot or public transportation for a couple or a family of 4 with teens would be a completely different thing than for a family of 9 with a large age range. 

Edited February 24 by ScoutTN

[Harriet Vane]

Just now, Kassia said:

He lives in Polaris area.  There are so many stores/restaurants there plus COTA but I don't think he used that much.

That is a nice area. However, it’s not easy at all for a walker to navigate. If I wanted to go from JoAnn Fabrics to the mall I would have to cross major busy streets without sidewalks. Just massive parking lots. It really is laid out for cars. Similar with Ikea—a walker cannot easily get from Ikea over the highway and across huge parking lots to the mall.

[MEmama]

12 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

The High Street corridor is basically an extension from the OSU campus, so yeah, much better transport there. That area is not really representative of the rest of the city.

When I say walkable, I mean it’s easy and quick to walk from my house to grocery, church, and a handful of other options. There are many areas of the city where that’s not easily possible.

But of course I am definitely biased by having lived in Chicago for forty years. It is easy to get anywhere in Chicago on public transportation. Anywhere I would want to go in Chicago I usually have more than one viable option for getting there due to the layers of buses and two train systems. It’s much harder by car there because of the congestion. 

Well idk. High street runs from Old Worthington all the way to German Village--a distance of several miles, and is entirely lined with old walkable neighborhoods connected by busses. Indianola and 4th St were well serviced too as I recall; I certainly didn't have any problem when I lived in both Clintonville and in the Short North. Everything I'd consider necessary and fun was along that corridor anyway.

Sure, if you want to go the suburbs it's harder and that's a shame, but everywhere I went for work, play, shopping, parks, etc was all right there. Of course, I chose to live in the center, which isn't everyone's interest. No doubt there needs to be public transport everywhere, but I personally loved how little we needed to drive in Columbus.

I'll always advocate for --and vote for and be happy to help pay for--more trains and streetcars pretty much everywhere though. 🙂 

[heartlikealion]

I can’t imagine doing much grocery shopping. I wouldn’t want to deal with a cart of my own to lug around but in certain areas I could picture it. One sister lives in England with no car. 

I have a friend that has a motorcycle but hauling laundry etc is not very practical imo. I had to help him move art before in my car. And a guy I know in NOLA is car shopping ti replace his car soon despite owning a scooter. Because they don’t want to use the scooter all the time (rain etc). So even though it’s doable to not have one… most people I know have a vehicle of their own. A guy I worked with said his vehicle broke down (maybe a motorcycle?) and now bikes some places and puts the bike on the bus but has his wife’s car to use if they grocery shop or something. Plus they have a child in the car seat stage. 
 

So no matter how many times people say it’s possible I thibk yeah but not ideal AT ALL. I knew someone that had no car in Seattle. Didn't seem to bother them much.  

[Halftime Hope]

6 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

I imagine the people not in the south would not be happy if we all decided to move more northernly to take advantage of the better weather.  

Define better.  I'll take blast furnace with moderate humidity vs. frozen/chapped/six months of winter. And that's why I prefer the south/southwest.

[Heartstrings]

Just now, Halftime Hope said:

Define better.  I'll take blast furnace with moderate humidity vs. frozen/chapped/six months of winter. And that's why I prefer the south/southwest.

Ask me in August and I’d be willing to trade Arkansas summer for Minneapolis winter, but today it’s beautiful in the 70s, with 80s next week and that’s exactly how I like my late winter, so I’ll stay out.    
I did learn to enjoy or at least tolerate winter when we lived in VA, as long as I had the right clothes.  Not the same as in the north.    I’m a big fan of the desert in the southwest though.  

[heartlikealion]

11 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Define better.  I'll take blast furnace with moderate humidity vs. frozen/chapped/six months of winter. And that's why I prefer the south/southwest.

Moderate humidity? It can be 100% several times a year 

Edited February 24 by heartlikealion

[Lecka]

When I got laundry soap and didn’t have a car, I bought a much smaller amount at one time.  It was fine.

 

I was an exchange student and there would be little stores outside of apartment blocks, it was pretty easy to pick up basics like that.  
 

Where I live now, heavy items would be a huge issue, and it would not be easy to make quick trips daily (ish) to pick things up.  It is just not designed the same way.

 

I also did not have a refrigerator there and we would just buy small amounts of food at a time to eat the same day or so.  A lot of people didn’t have them so it was easy to buy small amount of food in a small bag.

 

Cooking oil was the biggest inconvenience for me, as a single exchange student with roommates who did cook some basic meals.  
 

For example, we could buy a couple of eggs.  We didn’t have to buy a dozen eggs.  
 

I did also buy single-use laundry powder that came in a plastic packet and did not seem like a bad price to me.  

[freesia]

4 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

How far is a block in a city? I keep saying “walk a block” “a couple of blocks”.  Outside of suburban neighborhoods I don’t really use that unit.  Is it less than a mile? 

Usually 1/10 of a mile

[freesia]

1 hour ago, ScoutTN said:

Family size might also be a variable. Grocery shopping on foot or public transportation for a couple or a family of 4 with teens would be a completely different thing than for a family of 9 with a large age range. 

You can take a taxi and family members

Edited February 24 by freesia

[freesia]

14 minutes ago, freesia said:

You can take a taxi and family members

But yes, it would be harder not to have a car with a family. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Walmart delivers, as do many, many other grocery places. It’s really much, much easier to be carless than it was just five years ago. Even if you want fresh produce and meat you pick yourself, getting the rest delivered is a help. 
 

I walk to the store often. My parents, who live long down a gravel road in the middle of nowhere have stuff delivered via USPS or FedEx. There really are solutions no matter where you live.

[silver]

I think with a lot of larger cities, it might be doable if you have good public transit and you work in the downtown area (where public transit tends to go).

I live in a suburb within walking distance (with sidewalks and cross walks) of more than one grocery store and a bus line to downtown of the main city within walking distance. The downside is that the busses that go downtown only go during rush hour. So if I worked downtown, and got sick or had to leave early for some reason, I'd have no way home. And if you work at a company that isn't downtown, it's pretty much impossible to take the bus to work. I think many companies are moving to the suburbs for the lower priced real estate. 

I do have a family member living in Madison without a car. She lives and works the city proper, not a suburb.

[Heartstrings]

30 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

 

Walmart delivers, as do many, many other grocery places. It’s really much, much easier to be carless than it was just five years ago. Even if you want fresh produce and meat you pick yourself, getting the rest delivered is a help. 

 

This is why I’ve toyed with the idea of going down to one car.  I could take my husband to work on days that I needed the car for things.   He’s not onboard though.    

[Alice]

You could definitely live in DC without a car. We also know people who lived in the closer-in suburbs like Arlington with no car, they just lived along a Metro. You can also use Zipcar which is a car sharing service. People I know use that if they mostly live without a car but need one for some reason. (Example, picking up furniture at Ikea or going on a day trip.) 

[Ditto]

9 hours ago, MEmama said:

I didn't have a car until I was almost 30. I just took the bus/subway/public transport and walked or rode my bike. DH had one though.

I don't *need* a car where we currently live, lots of people get around by bike (all year, even here in Maine). We are actively trying to decide when to go down to one car, probably when we go electric. Right now both cars are relatively new and paid off so we're not sure it makes sense.

I did not think Maine could get any better, but here we are.   Oh for a miracle to happen so I could move there.  

[Carol in Cal.]

You know what—there are old half buried street car tracks and train tracks for lines that are not used all over the place here in the SJ and SF areas.  When my grandparents were growing up, they had funerals by train.  They would attach a hearse car and a dedicated passenger car to a regular train and take everyone to and from the graveyard that way.  It’s hard to imagine that now.

[Corraleno]

DS (grad student) has lived in Columbus without a car for several years. He can easily walk to 90% of the places he needs to go, and for the remaining 10% he either uses Uber/Lyft, rides with a friend, or takes the bus. If the weather is crummy and he doesn't feel like walking, he can order most things (including groceries) from Amazon Prime with next-day delivery. That's pretty common among his friends, because when you add up the cost of registration, insurance, maintenance, gas, and the (very expensive!) parking permits (not to mention the cost of a car payment), it's generally more convenient and cost effective for young people to just use Uber a few times a month if they need to go somewhere beyond walking distance.

I lived without a car for several years as a grad student in Los Angeles; I just walked or took the bus or occasionally caught a ride with a friend. In theory I could get by without a car where I live now, as I live within a mile of a grocery store, pharmacy, doctor's office (including urgent care),  and a little further from the dentist and a few other stores, and there is a decent bus system here. I don't even drive that much (my 2019 Subaru only has about 3000 miles on it), but I like the convenience of being able to do a big shop at Costco or fill the car with plants from the nursery, or whatever, without having to bum a ride from someone or get an Uber (with a driver who doesn't mind getting dirt in his car, lol). 

One thing I really miss about Europe is how easy it is to get around by train and tram. 

[Tap]

Portland Oregon and several outlying communities. I know several people who do not have a car at all, or have a single family vehicle and one person uses public transportation exclusively.

[catz]

I know plenty of people living in Minneapolis/St. Paul urban without a car.  Or maybe 1 car for a 2 parent/2-3 kid family.  It's defintiely easier without kids  LOTS of bike commuters.  My spouse among them.  I have a kid in Chicago using transit ALL the time.   I walk a ton personally, our neighborhood is pretty great but not as good as some others.

Lots of college towns are maybe not as expensive as the bigger cities and will be very walkable.   Ann Arbor MI, Madison WI, Columbus OH, Bloomington IN, etc.  College town tend to have nice amenities as well for their size.   You can look up walk scores for an address at https://www.walkscore.com/

City nerds has a number of videos on this!  Here's one focusing on less expensive cities.

 

Edited February 25 by catz

[KungFuPanda]

9 hours ago, Terabith said:

Our area deliberately and overtly chose to not have sidewalks because they don’t want poor people and thought no sidewalks would keep the riffraff out. 

Where do people walk and push their strollers? Is nobody outside?

7 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

The High Street corridor is basically an extension from the OSU campus, so yeah, much better transport there. That area is not really representative of the rest of the city.

When I say walkable, I mean it’s easy and quick to walk from my house to grocery, church, and a handful of other options. There are many areas of the city where that’s not easily possible.

But of course I am definitely biased by having lived in Chicago for forty years. It is easy to get anywhere in Chicago on public transportation. Anywhere I would want to go in Chicago I usually have more than one viable option for getting there due to the layers of buses and two train systems. It’s much harder by car there because of the congestion. 

I think that convenience is a huge hurdle. Public transportation has to be quicker and easier than driving to get most people on board. It’s very hard to get people to sign on for less convenience. I CAN get by without a car where I live, but if I walk to work it takes an hour, a bus takes 30-40 minutes, a bike takes 15-20 and driving takes 8-10 minutes. So far I’ve always chosen the extra 30 minutes of sleep.  I do plan to walk a few days a week when winter is over. 

I vaguely remember living in Cleveland as a small child and walking to school and using the bus system to get places. Dad had the car at work and Mom didn’t learn to drive until we moved from there. 

[Heartstrings]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

Where do people walk and push their strollers? Is nobody outside

In subdivisions or walking trails at a park.   The mall.   No, no one is outside, unless you are a in park or in the backyard.  

[Carrie12345]

I lived in York, PA without a car and on the edge of Trenton, NJ with 1 car between me and dh. Both worked okay. Neither of them were places I’d voluntarily live again.

I find the Marta train super easy to use in Atlanta, but I’ve never tried the buses. I don’t like the southern climate but, of my 3 experiences, that’s the one that seems most no-car-friendly to me. 

[Carrie12345]

There’s no logical way to have robust public transport by me. Even school buses, which stop door to door on “main roads”, have group stops in some areas that are up to 2 miles from students’ homes. We’re just too spread out.

There is a door to door bus for seniors, but the route is very specific and limited. And people like my former neighbor make it run late. 

[4kidlets4me]

8 hours ago, Heartstrings said:

In subdivisions or walking trails at a park.   The mall.   No, no one is outside, unless you are a in park or in the backyard.  

This is so weird to me. Here people are outside everyday. Yes, even when it's raining. People walking dogs, kids walking or biking to school, moms pushing strollers, people running for exercise, walking for exercise, etc. When the sun comes out the entire neighborhood goes outside. 

[thatfirstsip]

18 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

I can’t imagine doing much grocery shopping. I wouldn’t want to deal with a cart of my own to lug around but in certain areas I could picture it. One sister lives in England with no car. 

I have a friend that has a motorcycle but hauling laundry etc is not very practical imo. I had to help him move art before in my car. And a guy I know in NOLA is car shopping ti replace his car soon despite owning a scooter. Because they don’t want to use the scooter all the time (rain etc). So even though it’s doable to not have one… most people I know have a vehicle of their own. A guy I worked with said his vehicle broke down (maybe a motorcycle?) and now bikes some places and puts the bike on the bus but has his wife’s car to use if they grocery shop or something. Plus they have a child in the car seat stage. 
 

So no matter how many times people say it’s possible I thibk yeah but not ideal AT ALL. I knew someone that had no car in Seattle. Didn't seem to bother them much.  

A child is only in the car seat stage if you own a car. Lots of people in big cities with babies and toddlers don't have cars. 

[City Mouse]

I grew up in a small town in West Virginia that was not bad to get around without a car as long as you lived in town. My best friend in middle school family did not own a car. I do remember her mom using the taxi service in the early 80’s for trips to the grocery store. They even lived around the block from the laundry mat, so doing laundry wasn’t horrible. As young teens we could walk all over the main part of town. Everything was within about a 5 mile radius. There was some public transportation to get to further out parts of town, but it was limited.

Now, Houston is/was one of the most pedestrian unfriendly cities. Public transportation is only convenient in specific locations as would be biking to work or school. However, being car less is much more doable with the advent of Uber. I do know a single guy that lives in the far northwest of the Houston area and uses Uber for everything including getting to work downtown. He spends a lot on Uber, but he figured out that it was still cheaper that owning a car. I think that would be much harder if he had a family.

I live in a rural small town now. There is little traffic except for the one main road in and out of time. During the warmer months, kids are walking and biking all over. It has a small family grocery store and a dollar store, a coffee shop, a couple of restaurants, and even a medical clinic. It would be easy to get by without a car for a time. I’ve done that myself when cars were in the shop, but there are times when a vehicle is absolutely necessary for services in neighboring towns. I do think it is a good place for those with some family support to live mostly independently such as the elderly who cannot drive much(or wouldn’t be able to be driving in a bigger city) or people with some disabilities that make driving difficult. There is no public transportation or Uber here at all.

[Faith-manor]

16 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

You know what—there are old half buried street car tracks and train tracks for lines that are not used all over the place here in the SJ and SF areas.  When my grandparents were growing up, they had funerals by train.  They would attach a hearse car and a dedicated passenger car to a regular train and take everyone to and from the graveyard that way.  It’s hard to imagine that now.

Yes. And when we watched "Boys in the Boat", the video of the tow-able bleacher seating on the train that traveled down the tracks along the lake was just amazing. What a great idea! I would love something like that. Innovative and efficient. We have lost a lot in the pursuit of run away profits. What is best for the public in general, what would make for a higher quality of life is just not in the equation.

Our little town has narrow roads, a main trunk county road between two major state highways, shoulders of only 12" on each side, no sidewalks. Kids do not ride bikes. It is too dangerous. The semis and fully loaded beet trucks fly through town at 55+ miles per hour even though the speed limit is 35. We have had numerous accidents because of them. Yet police refuse to patrol the area and crack down on this, and the township cannot afford rumble strips, widening of roads, sidewalks, nor speed bumps which would make everything safer. 

We hope to move somewhere safer in terms of infrastructure, road and community construction in the future.

[SKL]

I remember, as a tot/preschooler, walking with my mom and my (then) 3 siblings to do the shopping.  It wasn't easy for sure.  But those were the days when a lot of women didn't drive, and even if they did, they usually didn't have their own car.  As the arrival of kid #5 approached, my mom gave the shopping responsibilities over to my dad (who did have a license and vehicle).  IIRC we did most of the shopping every 2 weeks, and then the very perishable stuff could be replenished at the nearby convenience stores.

When I was a teen, my sibs and I would walk to the grocery store and do the family shopping.  We'd push home a loaded cart (or 2) and then push the empty carts back.

It would be impractical now because our nearest markets / convenience stores are now over a mile away.  When my kids were 2, we took a walk to where they have a weekly farmer's market in the summer, roughly 2 miles away.  My kids have a lot of stamina and made the walk fine, but we did have to stop in the woods for a pee emergency; and then it started pouring, so we had to cut through yards for a shortcut.  Really not the ideal outing.  😛

[Halftime Hope]

18 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Moderate humidity? It can be 100% several times a year 

I don't know where you are referring to @heartlikealion (you don't need to specify) but I was used to living in Miami, on a beautiful little lake, on the lee side with lovely afternoon breezes, but --oy!-- if there was no breeze, you were sweating due to the humidity, in spite of temps rarely above 93.

I now live where the Cowboys are awful 😉 and it's blast furnace hot for weeks at a time. But the humidity is never high, just moderate. That makes it so much more comfortable!

I don't think I could live in any of the Deep South states, due to the humidity. Even East Texas could be pushing it.

[Faith-manor]

As for moving north.

Animals are migrating north, in the northern hemisphere, at a rate of 10-30 miles per year due to climate change. Much of the south and southwest will be uninhabitable in the future. Summers like the last one in which folks had 3rd degree burns from touching their cars will be the norm, and last for months not just weeks. So whether we northerners like it or not, southerners will be invading in droves even if they hate winter. The problem we have is politicians and public policy advisors here are ignoring this, and doing nothing to prepare so we may not have anything for y'all when you arrive. Sad to say. You might end up housed in stadiums and convention centers. The Great Lakes Area, North Dakota, etc. just are not bring honest about this. Maine and Vermont might be more practical about this as well, however, even where the powers that be are thinking about it, they aren't acting fast enough.

I tried to copy and paste some links, but my sad, cracked screen kindle is not copying properly. If you google Michigan and Climate Haven, you will find many articles.

[Lady Marmalade]

Buffalo.

My ILS have very purposefully relocated themselves from a suburb of Buffalo into Buffalo to age in place with the anticipation of eventually living without a car. Their home in a residential neighborhood is within walking distance of everything that is important to them, and they are just a block or two away from mass transit. 

[73349]

2 hours ago, thatfirstsip said:

A child is only in the car seat stage if you own a car. Lots of people in big cities with babies and toddlers don't have cars. 

It's needed if you ever want to take a Lyft/Uber or a ride from anyone; and helpful if you want to travel, such as flying somewhere and/or renting a car.  Most states' car seat requirements go up to 8 years/80 pounds, whichever comes first.

If you have a quick walk or subway ride to the pediatrician/urgent care and no plans to leave town for several years, it could work.

Less than 10% of the US population lives in the 10 largest cities, though. In my city, as with most that boomed after 1970, you would have to select your neighborhood with extreme care and pay accordingly.

[Heartstrings]

8 hours ago, 4kidlets4me said:

This is so weird to me. Here people are outside everyday. Yes, even when it's raining. People walking dogs, kids walking or biking to school, moms pushing strollers, people running for exercise, walking for exercise, etc. When the sun comes out the entire neighborhood goes outside. 

Where I am is just not set up for humans, it’s set up for cars.  There are no sidewalks, there aren’t even shoulders on most roads.  You would have to literally push the baby stroller in the car lane or in grass along the road, which is not always mowed.  

 We drive to a park and walk there or walk inside of our subdivisions, which also usually don’t have side walks but have little enough traffic that it’s safe. 

Edited February 25 by Heartstrings

[Heartstrings]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

As for moving north.

Animals are migrating north, in the northern hemisphere, at a rate of 10-30 miles per year due to climate change. Much of the south and southwest will be uninhabitable in the future. Summers like the last one in which folks had 3rd degree burns from touching their cars will be the norm, and last for months not just weeks. So whether we northerners like it or not, southerners will be invading in droves even if they hate winter. The problem we have is politicians and public policy advisors here are ignoring this, and doing nothing to prepare so we may not have anything for y'all when you arrive. Sad to say. You might end up housed in stadiums and convention centers. The Great Lakes Area, North Dakota, etc. just are not bring honest about this. Maine and Vermont might be more practical about this as well, however, even where the powers that be are thinking about it, they aren't acting fast enough.

I tried to copy and paste some links, but my sad, cracked screen kindle is not copying properly. If you google Michigan and Climate Haven, you will find many articles.

So you’re saying we should move north sooner rather than later? 

[YaelAldrich]

A person or family could live in Boston with no car. I can walk to several grocery stores, the post office, drug stores, doctors offices, dentists, hospital and bus or trolley to much more. But housing prices are INSANE. 

[Clarita]

On 2/24/2024 at 8:50 AM, Laura Corin said:

I lived in those temps and humidity in Hong Kong without a car. Most people use public transport,  which is air conditioned. They cope.

It's the top thing I miss about Hong Kong. I would happily give up my car for Hong Kong's public transportation. It's way more convenient than owning a car. (My mom who moved there doesn't miss having a car at all.)

Also, it's a pretty high standard because some say it is the best public transportation system in the world (and it actually makes money on top of being absolutely amazing).

On 2/24/2024 at 10:09 AM, Terabith said:

Our area deliberately and overtly chose to not have sidewalks because they don’t want poor people and thought no sidewalks would keep the riffraff out. 

In my area decades ago decided they didn't want poor and other people to have quick and easy access to the nice neighborhoods. So, they dead-end east-west going streets so it takes FOREVER to go east-west, enough so that it's faster for me to go to the Costco 3 towns away than to go to the Costco in the same town as me. 🙄 

[Tap]

On 2/24/2024 at 6:31 AM, Scarlett said:

I am curious about this too.  I really just can’t even imagine life without a car.  
 

I have a friend who is about 70 who has never driven and for the most part we all think that is ridiculous. I mean at this point she has some dementia and her kids are used to doing everything for her….but how did she survive in rural OK never driving….raising 6 kids.  

My grandma was the same. Small town with a Post office, a couple stores, maybe 2 restaurants and a market was a couple miles away so she could walk there for things she needed. 
 

She had 7 kids and a large heap of grandchildren. Family drove her around for everything except things she got in her little town. 
 

She actually did drive when she was young, almost had an accident with kids in the bed of a truck,  and never drove again.

[Clemsondana]

On 2/24/2024 at 9:45 AM, Heartstrings said:

I imagine the people not in the south would not be happy if we all decided to move more northernly to take advantage of the better weather.  

Some of us who have always lived in heat think the south has the better weather. 😀

[Scarlett]

2 hours ago, Clemsondana said:

Some of us who have always lived in heat think the south has the better weather. 😀

True.  I have no desire to live where it is cold.  

[frogger]

I live in a small suburb where I can walk to the grocery store, PO, hardware store, library, churchs, liquor store, coffee shop, dry cleaners, restaurants. Basically it is a small strip town between two highway exits. The exits are 1.7 miles apart so that is the farthest anything can possibly be from the other.  Most things I would need are here.  The big stroad through the middle is dangerous and annoying though. Hospital and airport are in the city though. So doable but can be annoying. I know  people who have cars that only use them for special occasions in my town. I could use my car less than I do. My number one concern is bike theft. I need a cheap bike to get around town. I end up walking but that takes way longer. DH bike commutes or bus/bike commutes to the city depending on trail conditions in winter. 

I do know a lot of people in Anchorage, Alaska without cars. They tend to be in two groups. Immigrants who have to work on getting their license and poor people or people with disabilities. This group has no real choice.  They tend to live on bus loops in the city. The other group has a choice. Typically healthy, often wealthy people who don't mind biking in a variety of weather conditions. Once you get used to something it is easier. Consequently I know a guy who biked into his 90's. And my son did a 4 man relay of a 200 mile race with 2 people in their 70's last year. When a healthy lifestyle is part of the mix, you tend to keep it longer.  So it is doable but I wouldn't say it is comfortable or even safe at times. 

I know way more people who use their bike a lot but have a truck or car for specific things though. It is certainly easier here with a car and most people would not choose to go without if they had a choice.

 

Edited February 26 by frogger

[frogger]

On 2/24/2024 at 1:29 PM, freesia said:

But yes, it would be harder not to have a car with a family. 

Everything is harder with a family true but trailers and attached seats are cheaper than cars so I know people that do it. I did not. Lol 

I will say once kids are about 10 and can go places by themselves your whole world is easier than those who have to run around picking up and dropping off kids everywhere. I just wave from the window while finishing dinner or doing dishes as the kids bike off instead of spending my life in a car waiting for kids.