how much would you charge?

[gardenmom5]

two years ago - I bought a mini-fridge for our theater.   it had a mini freezer compartment, that I originally thought we'd use, but never did.    1ds decided to try and defrost it with a sharp object - and punctured a freon tube . . . . so, it now needs to be replaced.  It's mostly drinks- but sometimes yogurt/similar for snacks.

 

so - he has offered to pay for it.  that same fridge has gone up about $30 new from what I paid for it. He has a good paying job.    I will be buying a more expensive fridge (no freezer, and with a light), and paying the difference.  

would you charge what the old fridge costs now?

or what the old one cost when I bought it two years ago?

want to be clear - if I didn't need to replace it, I wouldn't.

 

eta: I know a lot of minifridges are under $100 (and that wouldn't have been a big deal) - this wasn't a cheap one to start with. yes, it was a mistake.   He's an engineer, he should have known better than to poke with sharp objects.  HE offered to pay for it.

Edited September 26, 2022 by gardenmom5

[Myra]

If I could afford it, I'd would say "thanks, but not thanks" to son and just replace it out of my own pocket. 

[stephanier.1765]

1 minute ago, Myra said:

If I could afford it, I'd would say "thanks, but not thanks" to son and just replace it out of my own pocket. 

Yes, this. If he was truly trying to be helpful and made a mistake, then I would just replace it myself. If he was being careless and messing around, then he'd have to buy a new one all on his own.

[Kassia]

6 minutes ago, Myra said:

If I could afford it, I'd would say "thanks, but not thanks" to son and just replace it out of my own pocket. 

 

3 minutes ago, stephanier.1765 said:

Yes, this. If he was truly trying to be helpful and made a mistake, then I would just replace it myself. 

Same

[Innisfree]

5 minutes ago, Myra said:

If I could afford it, I'd would say "thanks, but not thanks" to son and just replace it out of my own pocket. 

Same. An effort to be helpful isn’t something I’d penalize. We’ve bought a couple of mini fridges in recent years, and the expense was relatively minor.

[Junie]

Especially since he offered to pay for it, I would not accept any money for it.  He recognizes his error and has accepted responsibility.  I wouldn't feel comfortable making him pay for it.

[HomeAgain]

This falls under the "restoration" clause in an apology.  Yeah, it was a bum move, but I'd let him have the experience of purchasing a same/similar model no matter the cost.  The fact that it cost $X when you bought it is irrelevant, it's the $Y cost of restoration that comes into play.

I shop a lot at thrift stores. Oldest DS once broke something I had paid about $3 for, but the replacement was about $30 and he couldn't find it used (which also would have been an acceptable option here).

[Lucy the Valiant]

I'd thank him for trying to help, thank him for the offer to replace, explain which model I wanted, offer to "go halvsies" on the new one, and then do whatever option he chooses, making it clear the whole time that the relationship with him is obviously more important than the actual fridge. If he has a good salary, it won't kill him to replace it and will likely make him feel better. 

(I'm assuming a great parent-son relationship here; if there's friction, please ignore completely. Just coming from a "eh, these things happen in good relationships" perspective.)

[Jann in TX]

If your family does actual 'you break it you pay' then I would charge what I paid for it and maybe less because it was 'used'...

Just do what you think is right for your family/your relationship with your son.  It is NOT worth future resentment!!!!

I would probably not charge-- but I make a lot more than my kids! 

 

[prairiewindmomma]

Given that he is well into adulthood, and all of you are financially comfortable (ie--not worrying about buying groceries or keeping the lights on), I would thank him for offering and decline. Everybody needs a bit of grace.

ETA: I would only think about "restoration" in a different situation--ie your youngest willfully breaking something in a fit of pique....there it could be a teaching tool if the circumstances were right.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by prairiewindmomma

[regentrude]

In our family, we would not accept payment - unless it was an item I desperately needed and wasn't able to afford myself. 

I know other families handle finances differently.

[itsheresomewhere]

I wouldn’t take the money.  I would tell him I appreciate the offer and for him to take that money and put it aside for a rainy day.  
 

[JustEm]

If I were to charge him, which I wouldn't, I'd expect the cost of a used one. It is two years old, it has lost some form of value.

[SKL]

I think I'd let him decide how much to pay, unless his offer was ridiculous.

[Bootsie]

Was it that he saw that the fridge needed defrosting and he took it upon himself to fix it, but was careless?  To me that is a much different situation than a child who is assigned a chore, is disgruntled and looking to do the job quickly rather than correctly, and damages an item.  

Especially if I were going to replace the fridge with an even more expensive model, I wouldn't accept payment for the old fridge.  That would seem to be a situation in which I regret the one I purchased and am looking for a way to get the money back from my mistake and get what I really want.  If he was going to take the old fridge and use it without the ice maker, I might accept a payment of what I paid for the original fridge minus depreciation for it being a used, and not new, fridge.  

[Jaybee]

If it were me, well, we are on a tight budget and I wouldn't be able to let it go completely for financial reasons. So I would take the original price minus some depreciation since it's a couple of years old, then apply that to the new one.

[Clarita]

It sounds like your son is a full grown adult not dependent upon you at all. I can't tell you what I would do from a parent's perspective but if I were your son and I knew/found out my mom went and had to ask a bunch of her friends what is fair I'd ask you to tell me the make and model of the fridge you want and buy it for you to save myself the drama. 

I get that your baby is always going to be your baby, but at some point an adult child wants to be treated as an adult. Seriously talk to him about your dilemma. Let him have a voice in the discussion. 

[Spryte]

If I could afford it, I’d say thank you for the offer, and replace it myself. I might let him take us out to dinner or something, if he’s really feeling like he must do something to make amends. That’s if it’s two years old, I’m replacing it with something more expensive anyway, and can afford it.  

 

[marbel]

19 minutes ago, Spryte said:

If I could afford it, I’d say thank you for the offer, and replace it myself. I might let him take us out to dinner or something, if he’s really feeling like he must do something to make amends. That’s if it’s two years old, I’m replacing it with something more expensive anyway, and can afford it.  

 

I like this. Or, I might say something like "I'll get a new one, and you fill it up. If you don't know what drinks we like, I'll give you a list." 

Edited September 26, 2022 by marbel

[madteaparty]

Same as everyone else here. Would not charge my kid. 

[QueenCat]

I'd just buy a new one. I wouldn't accept money from my child, even an adult child, for something like this. He was trying to be helpful. 

[bolt.]

I'd charge the depreciated value based on the original cost, and maybe some comparable 'could I buy a used one about the same age' research.

I do believe people (including older teens and young adult dependents) should pay for group property that they break through negligence or direct damage -- even if there were good intentions. I even make younger kids 'pay' token levels towards the idea of replacement costs when they break something or are personally responsible for damage to something.

It's a process that mimics adult life and responsibility. No matter how you manage to break your things, if its a necessary thing, you need to replace it somehow. If you break someone else's stuff, you repair the damage or get them a new one to the best of your abilities. Intent doesn't matter, and it doesn't need to be about being blamed or feeling stupid. It's just about taking a responsible role in returning a situation to the way it was before you made a mistake.

[Jean in Newcastle]

What would happen with my adult son.  He would offer.  I would decline.  He would pay me an amount anyway and I would quietly then accept it.  (If he didn't pay me anyway it wouldn't bother me one bit but I am grateful that he's kind and takes responsibility for things.  But none of it is "transactional", if that makes sense.  It's a gift that he's giving. 

[TechWife]

I think if he wants to pay for parts & repairs for the current refrigerator, that's fine. Getting a new fridge is your choice, not his. I wouldn't charge him anything. Right now, it isn't even saleable, so value is a moot point.

[Innisfree]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

bought a mini-fridge for our theater.

 

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

know a lot of minifridges are under $100 (and that wouldn't have been a big deal) - this wasn't a cheap one to start with. yes, it was a mistake.   He's an engineer, he should have known better than to poke with sharp objects.  HE offered to pay for it.

Since I mentioned that mini fridges aren’t very expensive, and I’m now picturing an expensive, perhaps built-in, version; and since upon re-reading I don’t get the sense that you were already planning to replace the fridge—

I still wouldn’t have him pay for it. For me, part of indulging in luxuries is accepting the risk that comes with using them. Something can always get broken. I wouldn’t want a guest to feel bad about it, and I wouldn’t want my son to either.

 I once watched a close friendship crash on the reef of a broken crystal goblet that the owner wanted her (impecunious) friend to replace. Even though this situation isn’t exactly the same, my attitude is still that if I can’t afford to accept something breaking, I don’t think I can afford to use it.

Having said that, since your son can afford to replace it, if he would be more comfortable making some sort of recompense, I’d settle on some mutual responsibility like some have mentioned: him filling the new fridge, or taking you out to dinner, or splitting the cost.

[madteaparty]

43 minutes ago, bolt. said:

I'd charge the depreciated value based on the original cost, and maybe some comparable 'could I buy a used one about the same age' research.

I do believe people (including older teens and young adult dependents) should pay for group property that they break through negligence or direct damage -- even if there were good intentions. I even make younger kids 'pay' token levels towards the idea of replacement costs when they break something or are personally responsible for damage to something.

It's a process that mimics adult life and responsibility. No matter how you manage to break your things, if its a necessary thing, you need to replace it somehow. If you break someone else's stuff, you repair the damage or get them a new one to the best of your abilities. Intent doesn't matter, and it doesn't need to be about being blamed or feeling stupid. It's just about taking a responsible role in returning a situation to the way it was before you made a mistake.

And then run DCF cash flows and calculate NPV of what it would cost, after asking for a legal opinion on whether it was gross negligence or simple negligence. 🙄 

Families are supposed to be warm and fuzzy, not a place for every single transaction to follow the rules of the marketplace 🤣

[pinball]

I think if I had a refrigerator in my theater, I wouldn’t be worried about who is paying for the replacement or what it cost.

[AmandaVT]

I don't have the type of family that would charge, so $0. 

[gardenmom5]

I have spent six hours on this today and Saturday - six hours I didn't have to spend on looking for a fridge.

Not happy.

[pinball]

9 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

I have spent six hours on this today and Saturday - six hours I didn't have to spend on looking for a fridge.

Not happy.

you can add your hourly rate to the price of the refrigerator. 

[TechWife]

32 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by TechWife

[Ausmumof3]

As others have said, it would depend on the situation and relationship plus our financial situation. I hope you get it sorted so everyone’s happy:

[madteaparty]

46 minutes ago, pinball said:

you can add your hourly rate to the price of the refrigerator. 

With overtime when it goes above 8 hours. 

[DeainUSA]

I would love that my son offered, there is no way in hell I'd expect him to pay.  Even if he's an engineer that can afford it and should have known better.  He made a mistake.  Happens all the time working on stuff.

[bolt.]

5 hours ago, madteaparty said:

And then run DCF cash flows and calculate NPV of what it would cost, after asking for a legal opinion on whether it was gross negligence or simple negligence. 🙄 

Families are supposed to be warm and fuzzy, not a place for every single transaction to follow the rules of the marketplace 🤣

I'm confused by this. Are you trying to make a joke? Or do you really think that when one person breaks an appliance it's somehow "warm and fuzzier" if a family member pays the bill vs if the person who broke it pays the bill vs finding a middle ground that feels fair where more than one person contributes to the bill?

Why is it "warm and fuzzier" not to put any thought into how much it is actually worth, how it actually got broken, or how affordable that bill would be in the realistic situations of the various people involved? To me, that's exactly how you do "warm and fuzzy" by thoughtfully pursuing a fair and balanced solution. (Yes, even if it involves a bit of math.)

[KungFuPanda]

If I absolutely needed it and absolutely couldn’t afford it, I’d let him pay half. However, if I could afford it, and knowing I was looking to upgrade, I’d be happy he offered and decline. Since your son is an adult, it’s no longer appropriate to charge him just to teach him about responsibility. There would be a part of me that would feel like if I’d maintained it properly, nobody else would be attempting to defrost it anyway and it wouldn’t be broken. It wouldn’t be the first time procrastination cost me money.

 If I had to charge him, I wouldn’t charge him for a new fridge (at today’s or two-years ago prices) because he damaged a used fridge. I’d use the $hit happens part of my budget where I stash cash instead of purchasing extended warranties. 
 

 

[Clarita]

11 minutes ago, bolt. said:

Why is it "warm and fuzzier" not to put any thought into how much it is actually worth, how it actually got broken, or how affordable that bill would be in the realistic situations of the various people involved? To me, that's exactly how you do "warm and fuzzy" by thoughtfully pursuing a fair and balanced solution. (Yes, even if it involves a bit of math.)

I think because it seems in the OP case everyone in the situation can afford a brand new refrigerator. Time and annoyance could be a factor but the actual finances no one (not the son, not the mom) is going to go without meals because they had to buy a fridge. A warm and fuzzy family doesn't pursue a fair and balanced solution, you meet the need. It's not tit for tat. If my mom fretted over how much she should charge me for something I broke in my twenties I'd give her a blank check and tell her to write an amount that makes her happy.

 

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I have spent six hours on this today and Saturday - six hours I didn't have to spend on looking for a fridge.

Not happy.

After this I would say you should ask your son to help you with the search. Give him a list of all the things you want in this new fridge and have him do the search. Come back to you with one or more options. That is the thing that's going to repair this relationship not the money.

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I think because it seems in the OP case everyone in the situation can afford a brand new refrigerator. Time and annoyance could be a factor but the actual finances no one (not the son, not the mom) is going to go without meals because they had to buy a fridge. A warm and fuzzy family doesn't pursue a fair and balanced solution, you meet the need. It's not tit for tat. If my mom fretted over how much she should charge me for something I broke in my twenties I'd give her a blank check and tell her to write an amount that makes her happy.

 

After this I would say you should ask your son to help you with the search. Give him a list of all the things you want in this new fridge and have him do the search. Come back to you with one or more options. That is the thing that's going to repair this relationship not the money.

Six hours is a LOT. Maybe give your son the money and list of requirements and let him source the new fridge. Odds are he’ll throw in extra money just to make the problem go away. That’s what my DH would do. The math just works out better when he’s working more as Ms shopping efficiently. 🤣

[bolt.]

11 minutes ago, Clarita said:

I think because it seems in the OP case everyone in the situation can afford a brand new refrigerator. Time and annoyance could be a factor but the actual finances no one (not the son, not the mom) is going to go without meals because they had to buy a fridge. A warm and fuzzy family doesn't pursue a fair and balanced solution, you meet the need. It's not tit for tat. If my mom fretted over how much she should charge me for something I broke in my twenties I'd give her a blank check and tell her to write an amount that makes her happy.

I see what you mean there... but if I was the mom, I'd sure put a lot of thought into exactly how fair an amount I wrote onto your blank cheque would be. For me, that's "honour" talking inside my heart. Who could take advantage of their own child, even if their child is generous and offers a blank cheque? I always fret about making sure I do the right thing and treating my fellow humans with true justice: how much more so, in my own family?

(Unless you mean that you would be angry about her fretting and offer the blank cheque in an aggressive way? I don't think you meant that, but sometimes I misread things.)

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, regentrude said:

In our family, we would not accept payment - unless it was an item I desperately needed and wasn't able to afford myself. 

I know other families handle finances differently.

same in my family. Especially since it is a "fun" item and not a needed to survive item. 

[Elizabeth86]

8 hours ago, Myra said:

If I could afford it, I'd would say "thanks, but not thanks" to son and just replace it out of my own pocket. 

Same! 

[Clarita]

5 minutes ago, bolt. said:

For me, that's "honour" talking inside my heart. Who could take advantage of their own child, even if their child is generous and offers a blank cheque? I always fret about making sure I do the right thing and treating my fellow humans with true justice: how much more so, in my own family?

(Unless you mean that you would be angry about her fretting and offer the blank cheque in an aggressive way? I don't think you meant that, but sometimes I misread things.)

For my mom and I it was that I needed her to come to the realization that her wellbeing is more important than the amount of money coming out of my bank account. She raised me right in this respect and she needs to know that what she requires of me is no longer some learning moment but what she actually needs from me to have a relationship. I ended up writing two checks. The first she put a "fair" amount on but was still unhappy (not with me but still unhappy), because it didn't solve the problem, the second had nothing to do with what I did but it gave her a piece of mind. 

It's not about you doing the right thing or justice. It's about giving your children the opportunity to just care for you. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

It might be a semantics thing. I react a bit inside to the concept of “charging “ a family member. Especially for something that isn’t a pre planned loan or something of that nature. But I don’t react to graciously accepting a freely given gift of money. That was the context of my former reply. (And I realize that the gift could match the “bill “ in sum but it’s not about the sum of money but a grace relationship. ). 

[gardenmom5]

50 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

  knowing I was looking to upgrade, 

 

 

I ***wasn't*** looking to upgrade!  It's less than two years old.   

It's a case of - since I now have to buy a new fridge, I might as well find something that works better for the use it gets. (re: no freezer).

 

Now I have to dispose of a non-working fridge.  Possible to repair it, (patch and refill the freon, apparently, they sell kits.).   He's over here using the theater enough, he'd rather upgrade too or I'd have him just fix it.

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I ***wasn't*** looking to upgrade!  It's less than two years old.   

It's a case of - since I now have to buy a new fridge, I might as well find something that works better for the use it gets. (re: no freezer).

 

Now I have to dispose of a non-working fridge.  Possible to repair it, (patch and refill the freon, apparently, they sell kits.).   He's over here using the theater enough, he'd rather upgrade too or I'd have him just fix it.

I didn’t mean you were looking to upgrade before it was broken, but that you have zero intention of replacing it with the exact same item. It’s an upgrade to get something that better suits your needs. 

[Bootsie]

If I were the son, I think I would be looking at it like this:

I was being careless; I created a problem; I will offer to fix or replace the item.  Even if mom says "no don't worry about it; things happen" I would probably do something (buy mom a plant, take her to dinner, etc.) if I knew the item was important to mom and was really caused by something I intentionally did.  I would do the same thing if I broke something at a friend's house.

If mom did say she would like me to replace the item, I would be fine with that.  If mom said what she was going to "charge" me for the item, it would be a different story.  I would react the same way if a friend was going to "charge" me for breaking an item at their house.  

I don't know what the base price of the item was, but presumably much greater than $100--so say the fridge was originally $500 and the same item now costs $530, to even consider whether $500 or $530 is the appropriate amount seems petty, especially since you are not even going to replace the item with a like refrigerator.  It was gracious of the son to offer to replace the item; I would be as gracious as possible in my response.  

 

[SKL]

My response (that the son can decide how much to pay) was based on the following:

• He felt badly and offered to pay.  It isn't necessarily kind to forbid him from making up for breaking my stuff.  I personally would not feel better about breaking my mom's stuff if she didn't let me make amends.
• He is a financially independent adult.  He can and should fix things he breaks, regardless of who owns them.  It should be a no-brainer, and when he breaks something owned by a friend, he will know exactly what to do.
• Why let him decide on an amount:  this requires him to put some thought and research into (a) the value of what he broke and (b) what it takes to replace what he broke and (c) what's fair.  Resale value before it was broken?  Replacement cost for similar item?  Or something else?  What can I afford vs. what can my folks afford?
• At some point the warm fuzzy feeling of family needs to evolve from being all on mom, to being on all those who can contribute, and eventually, to none of it being on mom.  JMHO.  I personally would go buy my folks a new fridge if I thought they wanted one, even if I hadn't broken theirs.  For me, this kind of thinking started by my 20s.  Not saying "I expect that as a mom," but when my kids are ready to offer to do that, I will be glad they've matured to that point.

Edited September 27, 2022 by SKL

[Faith-manor]

On 9/26/2022 at 12:27 PM, regentrude said:

In our family, we would not accept payment - unless it was an item I desperately needed and wasn't able to afford myself. 

I know other families handle finances differently.

This is how we would handle it if the breakage isn't malicious. Our kids all make bizarrely less money than Mark and I. 

That said, families can run the range on expectations. If the family culture is he should pay, I would be inclined to treat it like the Kelly Blue Book on the car. What is the fair market resale value of such a fridge in good shape? Charge that, and then pick up the difference for a replacement. I would not be comfortable with full replacement price.

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

That said, families can run the range on expectations. If the family culture is he should pay, I would be inclined to treat it like the Kelly Blue Book on the car. What is the fair market resale value of such a fridge in good shape? Charge that, and then pick up the difference for a replacement. I would not be comfortable with full replacement price.

Be careful... if you do any math or any research, some people on the board don't think that's a "warm and fuzzy" enough way to treat your loved ones. (Insert silly face!) (This comment is meant to be read in a light hearted tone.)

[gardenmom5]

UPDATE:

I found something - that actually cost significantly less than I was expecting.  (and less than the damaged mini-fridge cost new two years ago, which is about $40 less than the current price) 

I have the new one home, and installed.  Letting it sit upright before plugging it in (you want to do that so all the coolant/oil will be where it is supposed to be and not burn out your motor/compressor/whatever. It must be upright for 24 hours before being plugged in or it can be damaged.)

I had to actually go to Best Buy and measure it - because whomever was in charge of the information on the website doesn't know the box height and the item height are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!!!!! (and several inches difference) That also meant I could bring it home today - and not wait for something to ship to me.  I generally hate going to Best Buy . . but desperate times call for desperate measures. . . . (yeah - first world problems)

  I also found out it is possible to repair coolant line punctures and refill the line with coolant.  Viola - you have a working mini-fridge. I sent off the info to ds - and told him if he wants to try, he can keep it or sell it and keep the money.  Pretty sure it's within his capability.  (he built computers at nine.)   My dsil would jump at it - and he's not an engineer, but he's highly motivated that way.  (pity he lives in CA.)  1ds . . . my expectations of his interest aren't high.

Otherwise - I now get to go find where I can dispose of the thing.  What recycling center/place will take it . . . Not so easy to find. . . . 

It's created a great deal of hassle for me.   

Having seen one with a LED light (either too big, or the control was on the back-outside. where you can't reach it.  who does that?)  I did order a battery operated motion sensor LED strip to put inside the cabinet the fridge is in, so we can see what we're grabbing from the fridge in a dark room. . . .  so - there's one good thing to come out of all of this.