A surprisingly contentious Tightwad controversy

[Ginevra]

I am on a Tightwad FB group. Someone posted a question that went like this:

Quote

I sometimes buy a coffee out, but I do not use sugar. In fact, I don’t use sugar at all and so I no longer keep it at my house. However, sometimes a friend comes by for a cup of coffee at my house and would like a little sugar. Therefore, is it ethical or unethical if, when I buy a cup of cofee, I take home a packet or two of sugar to have for those instances. 

I think the answer to this question is very straightforward, even for tightwads, some of whom are amazingly fanatical. But it actually got closed for comments because people got wound up aboutit. So: yes ethical or no? Is this petty theft if you obtained the sugar with complete knowledge you would not use it yourself? 

[PrincessMommy]

I think that is wrong, especially since she is specifically taking it to use elsewhere.   It may be factored into the price but she is stealing.    I wouldn't do it and I would definitely be judging someone who told me they did that.  

[katilac]

Sugar is factored into the overall cost of selling coffee in bulk, not by the individual cup.They assume a certain number of people will use a little sugar, a certain number will use more, and a certain number will use none at all. Unless we want restaurants to start charging if you want more sugar, then don't take sugar when you don't want any. 

For heaven's sake, sugar is quite cheap and lasts forever. Don't give tightwads a bad name. 

[alisoncooks]

I mean, a small bag of sugar is a buck! And it lasts forever, properly stored. 

[TravelingChris]

I drink coffee with cream or milk and sugar. Sometimes I am at a place that sells coffee and put I some but don't want to taste at filling up station. And sometimes I am leaving hotel or coffee place. I put in sugar based on bitterness. What I do is not unethical  because I do use sugar and the 2 extra packs I take may very well be going into my coffee. 

But what the lady in poster 1 does is unethical.

[marbel]

It might be technically ethical but it's petty and cheap.  Frugal doesn't necessarily mean cheap.

My daughter used to work at a little bagel shop and she was often appalled to see what people slipped into their pockets. I know the person in the FB group wasn't talking about dumping many sugar packets (or mini-moos, whatever) in her pocket or purse, but when pocketing a little becomes routine, it's easier and easier to end up pocketing a lot.  And it's one of the reasons a cup of coffee or tea out is much more expensive than at home.  (Obviously not the only reason, or even the main one, but still.)

If it's really important to be frugal, make coffee at home.  Or, as others have said, buy a small bag of sugar.

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by marbel

[Farrar]

I have zero problem with it.

Then again, I have been known to DO it. Not with sugar, but with mayo, which I loathe, but which my mother gripes about if I don't have for a sandwich if she happens to be here. If I get a sandwich that has a mayo packet, I save it to stop her fussing about the insanity of not keeping mayo on hand.

[DawnM]

I don't take condiments home unless they are leftover.....they hand me 2 sugars and I only use one, they give me 3 dipping sauces and I only use 2.....basically, if I know they will toss it, I take it home.  Otherwise, no.  Although I wouldn't go so far as to say she is stealing.

[Pawz4me]

I think it's fine.

DH and I have been known to take a couple of extra salt and pepper packets to use in the RV. I don't feel any qualms about it.

[HomeAgain]

Grey.

I won't take anything, but I know if I send back packets that were put in our take out bag they'll probably end up thrown out at the restaurant.  So I put the occasional catsup packet or salt and pepper envelopes aside and either put them in the jar for camping or in the kitchen pantry basket.  It actually helped the other night.  We don't tend to buy many condiments here and ds wanted catsup for the first time in forever.  I dug out a packet for him and he was happy.  And I bought a bottle of catsup at the grocery store the next day.

[Guest]

See? I find this absolutely fascinating! I am in Camp Zero Problem, because the sugar packets are an expected expense and taking it home is not violating anything. (Of course, it would be different if we were talking about taking ALL the sugars or a salt shaker.)

When I get chicken strips at CFA, I don’t use sauce. I don’t even like it. But my kids do. So they give me two sauces and I bring them home. Same for a ketchup packet, if one is put in my bag. I won’t use it. But I wont just throw it away. 

[KathyBC]

58 minutes ago, Quill said:

I am on a Tightwad FB group. Someone posted a question that went like this:

I think the answer to this question is very straightforward, even for tightwads, some of whom are amazingly fanatical. But it actually got closed for comments because people got wound up aboutit. So: yes ethical or no? Is this petty theft if you obtained the sugar with complete knowledge you would not use it yourself? 

You *do* intend to use it yourself... to give to someone else. If you were buying coffee for someone else and couldn't remember or didn't know how they took their coffee, a couple packets would be fine.
So 1-2 packets yes, a handful no.

ETA: I can't really imagine doing this deliberately as a way of life forever. I mean if you *know* when your MIL visits she's going to want sugar, yes just buy a small thing of sugar.

Edited November 20, 2018 by KathyBC

[marbel]

Sure, If the item is put in the bag or on the tray, it is going to be thrown away if you try to give it back. In that case, yeah, I'd agree it's fine to take it home and use it.  That's not the same as asking for it for the purpose of taking it home, or getting some from a self-service area with the intention of taking it home to keep a stash of [condiment] to avoid buying it.

[unsinkable]

This weekend, I heard a woman at a truck stop order a medium coffee with 8 sugars and 4 creams. 

I wondered if there would be room for the coffee.

[Arcadia]

40 minutes ago, katilac said:

 Unless we want restaurants to start charging if you want more sugar, then don't take sugar when you don't want any. 

 

Some of the McDonalds restaurant do ration sugar here. The strictest would add the sugar and creamer for you. The less strict would ask how many packs of sugar and mini cups of creamer you need. I used to go to a particular McDonald’s with a playspace so often when my kids were younger that the staff knows I need at least five packs of sugar in my large cup of coffee.

2 minutes ago, unsinkable said:

This weekend, I heard a woman at a truck stop order a medium coffee with 8 sugars and 4 creams. 

I wondered if there would be room for the coffee.

 

If she is a regular, the staff might just give her a large cup of coffee with the medium cup size amount of coffee. When I buy coffee, the barista usually ask if I want to leave room on top for the milk. My kids do but I don’t so my cup of coffee is filled to almost the brim while my kids would have a 1 cm gap for them to add their milk in. 

[sarasue7272]

If it’s the standard amount they give you, that seems fine to me. I ask for chick fila sauce even when I have some in the car. I like to always have one in case they forget in the future. I do specify just one though, the standard is two.

That said, a friend once told me that her mom would take a handful of straws home from fast food restaurants and that is what they used at home. That’s not cool. Extreme cheapskate and not ethical. 

[shawthorne44]

I think it is unethical to ask for extra.   But in a drive thru, you just take what they give you.  

[katilac]

1 hour ago, marbel said:

 If it's really important to be frugal, make coffee at home.  Or, as others have said, buy a small bag of sugar.

 

Indeed.

1 hour ago, Farrar said:

Not with sugar, but with mayo, which I loathe, but which my mother gripes about if I don't have for a sandwich if she happens to be here. If I get a sandwich that has a mayo packet, I save it to stop her fussing about the insanity of not keeping mayo on hand.

 

A sandwich that HAS a mayo packet included at no request is of course no problem to keep, it makes no sense to throw it away if you already have it. I personally would not, as a matter of course, ASK for a mayo packet every time or take it from the bin, knowing that I wouldn't use it. I'd probably just buy a little bottle anyway, though, because it's like two bucks and stays good for a very long time and I wouldn't have to worry about her fussing about it. 

44 minutes ago, Quill said:

See? I find this absolutely fascinating! I am in Camp Zero Problem, because the sugar packets are an expected expense and taking it home is not violating anything. (Of course, it would be different if we were talking about taking ALL the sugars or a salt shaker.)

When I get chicken strips at CFA, I don’t use sauce. I don’t even like it. But my kids do. So they give me two sauces and I bring them home. Same for a ketchup packet, if one is put in my bag. I won’t use it. But I wont just throw it away. 

 

Of course you don't need to throw away something they put in your bag anyway, that's just wasteful. For some reason, even asking for the sauce for your kids doesn't bother me as much as taking extra sugar for guests. Maybe because it's your immediate family, and your not stockpiling it for guests, lol? Maybe because you can't buy Chik Fil A sauce at the grocery store? Maybe because $1 would buy that lady a year's worth of sugar for her guest, but the packets that she takes cost the vendor more than that and creates unneeded waste? (packaging is insane)

idk, purposely taking sugar packets that you won't use in order to squirrel them away for guests just seems tacky at the least. I thought for sure that aspect would bother you!

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by katilac

[Jean in Newcastle]

I don’t think that it is an ethical gray area. Ethically it is wrong even if they factor it into their budget. Ethics has to do with right and wrong, period.   Now I do think that they do factor it into the price of coffee. And no one is going to be calling the police or anything.  So I wouldn’t get worked up about it if I saw someone doing it. But I would wonder about just how destitute someone is if they can’t afford to buy some sugar. 

[happi duck]

On Wait Wait Don't Tell Me there was a question about a billionaire who steals sweet n low!

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/11/637793708/panel-questions

[Annie G]

I can’t get worked up about the ethics involved with taking a packet or two of sugar if I’m already buying a coffee. Nope.  A handful? Sure. But one or two? Nope.  

Once when we were traveling my granddaughter wanted to take a banana from the breakfast bar to eat later in the morning during our drive. She was afraid it would be considered stealing because she had already eaten a bowl of cereal. So she marched up to the front desk and asked for permission.  The manager on duty was very kind and told her to take whatever she wanted to snack on during our ride.  So a packet of sugar here or there or a few extra napkins? Not a big deal. 

[bethben]

I think it's being cheap not frugal.  I would tell the woman in question to skip buying coffee out a couple of times if she wants to be a tightwad and just buy a small bag of sugar.  It's like taking a bunch of napkins from a restaurant you go to so that you don't have to buy some for home.  I don't think it's an ethical problem, just being cheap. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, happi duck said:

On Wait Wait Don't Tell Me there was a question about a billionaire who steals sweet n low!

https://www.npr.org/2018/08/11/637793708/panel-questions

Here’s the best line:

Quote

SAGAL: I mean, you don't get to be a billionaire by buying your own packets of artificial sweetener

😂

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Annie G said:

I can’t get worked up about the ethics involved with taking a packet or two of sugar if I’m already buying a coffee. Nope.  A handful? Sure. But one or two? Nope.  

Once when we were traveling my granddaughter wanted to take a banana from the breakfast bar to eat later in the morning during our drive. She was afraid it would be considered stealing because she had already eaten a bowl of cereal. So she marched up to the front desk and asked for permission.  The manager on duty was very kind and told her to take whatever she wanted to snack on during our ride.  So a packet of sugar here or there or a few extra napkins? Not a big deal. 

I do have an appreciation for her asking. It was very conscientious of her. 

[happi duck]

I find a lot of money saving tips to be murky or downright wrong.  (Like:"Don't buy CDs, copy them to your computer from the library" and "get fitted at a specialty store by a professional but buy from Amazon.")

With the sugar, like others have said, there's a big difference between taking and not wasting what was given.  Imo: okay tip=if the drive thru gives you extra packets you can't use save them for guests.  Shady tip=take an extra sugar packet to use for guests

Just my two cents!

 

[Annie G]

4 minutes ago, Quill said:

I do have an appreciation for her asking. It was very conscientious of her. 

I did, too, and was glad the manager treated her request with respect.  This child is very concerned with fairness and rules so it’s not unusual for her to think about that kind of thing. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, bethben said:

I think it's being cheap not frugal.  I would tell the woman in question to skip buying coffee out a couple of times if she wants to be a tightwad and just buy a small bag of sugar.  It's like taking a bunch of napkins from a restaurant you go to so that you don't have to buy some for home.  I don't think it's an ethical problem, just being cheap. 

I think she posed this question more to consider the philosophical point; it seemed to be hypothetical later in the thread. She gave an additional example of being at a business meeting where there are cookies. Is it right or wrong to take home a cookie that you do not intend to eat yourself? Like, perhaps you give the cookie to your husband or a friend or a homeless person. 

In that case, I still think it is fine, so long as it is only one person’s allotment. Not sneaking out a tray of cookies, no. But taking home a cookie? I have no problem with that. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

24 minutes ago, Danae said:

 

If you saw someone get a cup of coffee to go and take two packets of sugar how would you know they weren't going to put it in the coffee? I mean, if they put some in their coffee and then another few packets in their purse that would stand out, but I've seen lots of people walk into meetings with sugar packets on the lid of their coffee and put it in after they sit down.

I wouldn’t. And I don’t sit around looking. Or trying to figure out what or why someone is doing something. I am talking about someone specifically  bragging about getting sugar “for free”. 

[Tanaqui]

If I particularly want a lot of free sugar/ketchup/mustard/soy sauce packets, I call my sister and ask her to raid her coworker's drawers. They're usually happy to get rid of those. Most fast food places give you way too much of that stuff, and so they just sit around, piling up.

[marbel]

39 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I think where it becomes a bit grey is that..........................I don't give it back, but generally....I don't take it home and use it.  9 times out of 10, I end up throwing it away.  SO, is my wasting what they gave me more ethical than asking for more that does end up getting used?

If you give it back, they are going to throw it away.   

I wish places would ask before automatically putting stuff in the bag or on the tray. I don't eat at many places that give away condiment packets, but in my experience they ask if it's wanted. 

It's not unethical to get rid of something you didn't ask for but got anyway. I mean,  you are not obligated to eat that packet of ketchup if you don't want it. It's like getting a calendar in the mail from some charity hoping you will "pay" for it with a donation. You can throw it away or recycle it if you want.  It's an unsolicited item and you are under no obligation with regard to how you deal with it.

[maize]

If I were in your group my response to the person who asked the question would be that no, I don't think taking an amount of sugar that would normally go with the drink you bought is unethical BUT if he/she personally feels like doing so might be slightly unethical it would make more sense to purchase a small package of sugar to keep for guests. The cost of the sugar is completely insignificant compared to the comfort of a clear conscience.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, maize said:

If I were in your group my response to the person who asked the question would be that no, I don't think taking an amount of sugar that would normally go with the drink you bought is unethical BUT if he/she personally feels like doing so might be slightly unethical it would make more sense to purchase a small package of sugar to keep for guests. The cost of the sugar is completely insignificant compared to the comfort of a clear conscience.

Good answer. 

 

[Arcadia]

32 minutes ago, Quill said:

She gave an additional example of being at a business meeting where there are cookies. Is it right or wrong to take home a cookie that you do not intend to eat yourself? Like, perhaps you give the cookie to your husband or a friend or a homeless person. 

 

My husband and I have never attended a business meeting where we weren’t told to help ourselves to the leftovers. My husband took home six cookies and two sandwiches from last Friday’s working lunch meeting and everyone was told to help clear the food by taking leftovers home.

I could see taking an extra cookie (or apple or bun or packet of potato chips or whatever) before a meeting for a spouse or friend as being wrong because it is not a leftover. So you are depriving someone who would like to have that cookie (or whatever) during the meeting. I rarely had time to eat before a long meeting when I worked so I appreciate having cookies and would probably give someone with an uneaten cookie a starving look.

[lulalu]

I think this person just needs to buy a conatiner of sugar packets to keep for times like these. 

Even if the price is factored in, it is meant for you to use with the coffee you bought. 

Now, when ordering Chinese takeout theu fill my bag with sauces. I don't use them all for the meal I have, but I keep them to use at other times. However, I feel the difference is I am not putting them in. If I were to grab them it would be wrong in my mind. 

However, I can say my dh does not agree with me on this as we have had conversations before. 😁

[teachermom2834]

Wow...it never would have occurred to me that this was unethical and I am generally a rule follower to a fault. I also cannot stand for anyone to think I am doing something unethical so now that I know this is a "no-no" there is very little chance I would ever do it. I wouldn't have done it anyway because I am generally anti-waste and an anti-hoarder so I do not take anything extra ever. It is just something I will later have to deal with. If I had company that needed sugar and i didn't keep any on hand, I would buy a little shaker of it that they sell in the coffee section and keep it in its own designated spot in the pantry. Organization is a challenge for me so loose packages of sugar I accumulate a couple at a time would make me nuts, get thrown away, or open up in the bottom of my bag six months later. So I wouldn't have done it before but now that I know that some stranger might judge me I definitely won't. Lol...why I care what strangers think I have no idea. 

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I voted gray area, but I personally have no issue with it.

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, teachermom2834 said:

Wow...it never would have occurred to me that this was unethical and I am generally a rule follower to a fault. I also cannot stand for anyone to think I am doing something unethical so now that I know this is a "no-no" there is very little chance I would ever do it. I wouldn't have done it anyway because I am generally anti-waste and an anti-hoarder so I do not take anything extra ever. It is just something I will later have to deal with. If I had company that needed sugar and i didn't keep any on hand, I would buy a little shaker of it that they sell in the coffee section and keep it in its own designated spot in the pantry. Organization is a challenge for me so loose packages of sugar I accumulate a couple at a time would make me nuts, get thrown away, or open up in the bottom of my bag six months later. So I wouldn't have done it before but now that I know that some stranger might judge me I definitely won't. Lol...why I care what strangers think I have no idea. 

 

I know! And now I’m totally going to think about this EVERY time I get ANY condiments for the rest of my life! 

My DS19 thought I was annoying when I recently went out to eat with him near his college and saved a spoon, napkin and tiny salt and pepper. I put them in my purse. He was like, “What are you doing?” I said, “Well, they gave them to me but I don’t need them. Im not going to just throw them in the trash!” 

He thought that was ridiculous. Probably right. 

[katilac]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

 And now I’m totally going to think about this EVERY time I get ANY condiments for the rest of my life! 

 

You're welcome!

[SereneHome]

2 hours ago, unsinkable said:

This weekend, I heard a woman at a truck stop order a medium coffee with 8 sugars and 4 creams. 

I wondered if there would be room for the coffee.

I ask for 6-7 sugars in my ice coffee in DD.  I don't like cream, though

 

 

[SereneHome]

I don't think it's big deal to take packets of sugar from coffee shops.

I do think it's in poor taste to offer packets of sugar to your guests when they visit you in your home.

[happypamama]

I think it’s unethical to take any packets, knowing that won’t use them for the beverage you purchased on that occasion. It may be factored into the cost of business, but it’s still stealing. 

 

Now, if you buy coffee and know that you want some amount of sugar in it but maybe don’t know how much, so you take two or three and then decide that one or two is enough, or you buy coffee for several people and grab a handful of sugars, and then you have a few left over, I think it’s totally fine to save them and use them on other occasions. But to take them or ask for them with no intent of using them for what you bought is unethical IMO. 

[Bluegoat]

If they put it on your tray or in a bag for you, and you then don't use it, it is fine.  

If you have the choice to take it, you should only do so if you use it on that food.  Even if they add the cost of over-takers into the food, that is no different to a retail shop adding the cost of shoplifters into their product. Buy a little shaker of sugar for goodness sake.

[Ellie]

1. I don't want my guests to have to use little packets of sugar with a Starbucks logo on them. It's tacky. In fact, little bags of sugar served in a home is tacky.

2. A little bag of sugar is cheap. Just buy the bag already.

[BarbecueMom]

The obvious solution is to meet the friend at the coffee shop instead of at home, so you don't have to pilfer OR purchase sugar.

But quitting coffee and not having friends... that would be the ultimate tightwad solution. 😁

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, happypamama said:

I think it’s unethical to take any packets, knowing that won’t use them for the beverage you purchased on that occasion. It may be factored into the cost of business, but it’s still stealing. 

 

Now, if you buy coffee and know that you want some amount of sugar in it but maybe don’t know how much, so you take two or three and then decide that one or two is enough, or you buy coffee for several people and grab a handful of sugars, and then you have a few left over, I think it’s totally fine to save them and use them on other occasions. But to take them or ask for them with no intent of using them for what you bought is unethical IMO. 

Yes. It’s the intent that matters. 

[sbgrace]

My mother takes home all the hotel soaps, shampoos, etc. wherever they stay so she can donate them to groups that put together packages for those without. I never thought of that as unethical in the least. But it seems like it's similar to the sugar question? Interesting perspectives. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by sbgrace

[SKL]

Some people apparently have too much time on their hands.  And time is money.  So they should get kicked out of the tightwad group for that, LOL.

A first world vendor does not care if you take some sugar packets home, as long as it isn't a ridiculous amount.

It makes a lot more sense to do that than to buy a whole container of sugar that will sit in the cupboard for decades (and probably end up in the garbage) because you don't ever use it.

But a real tightwad would not be buying prepared coffee anyway.

PS a word to the wise - you can go on Amazon and order a small quantity of sugar packets if you just can't reconcile yourself to taking a couple from a vendor for your friend.

[J-rap]

I guess I don't see a big problem with that.  If they grabbed a handful every time they went I would, but if now and then they grabbed a single packet when they bought coffee?  I don't have a problem with that.  I sometimes take a few extra napkins with me to keep in the car.  And I know of a lot of people who take the little hand lotions and shampoos from hotels to either use later or give to guests when they come and stay in their home.  I know my dd would sometimes take little salt and pepper packets to use in her dorm room.  I do think hotels and restaurants just allow that stuff to be used frivolously in their budget.

What DOES bother me is when I order a meal and they throw in 10 packets of ketchup when I really only need one, or 5 creams when I only need one.  Even if I leave them unopened at the restaurant, I know they'll throw them away.

I do consider myself a very honest and ethical person, and if I did this, it wouldn't even occur to me that I'd have to do it sneakily.  But given that most people here seem to think it's unethical does give me pause to think about it more. 

[Serenade]

When you buy a cup of coffee, it includes sugar and/or cream.  As long as the person takes a reasonable portion for 1 serving of coffee or whatever he or she purchased, that is totally ethical and not stealing.  It's no different than buying a cup of coffee, putting in cream and sugar, and then not drinking it after all.  You paid for it and it's yours to do with as you please.  Drink, toss, save, mix your sugar and cream at home, or not, etc, etc.

[GoodGrief]

I suppose it's akin to buying a cup of coffee because you needed to use their restroom. I think it's fine.